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Forum Post: Another Occupy #Fail: New Yorkers not too thrilled with latest OWS ‘prank’....

Posted 8 years ago on March 31, 2012, 1:58 a.m. EST by F350 (-259)
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Apparently epistemic closure is a problem for anarchists too. They just don’t seem to get that the Average Joe does not look too kindly on blatantly lawless behavior, even when they might otherwise be sympathetic to the cause. Free transportation? Well someone is paying for it, and you don’t have to be a conservative (or even out of grade school) to know that it’s just plain wrong to take for free what others are spending their hard-earned cash on. Whether it’s a ride on the subway, or squatting in a foreclosed house that never belonged to you.

I’m not sure why, but I was expecting the occupy movement to re-group over the winter and get a little smarter about the types of tactics they are using. At times throughout our history civil disobedience has been used to advance causes which most of us would probably agree were for the betterment of the nation. I’m glad Rosa Parks refused to sit in the back of the bus and it sickens me that she ever had to. But fighting to end racial discrimination and demanding free stuff from a government going deeper and deeper into debt are not exactly morally equivalent, to say the least. And this fact isn’t lost on most Americans, regardless of whether the media continues to gloss over the occupy movement’s most egregious behavior.

If the occupiers’ aim was to shine a spotlight on the fact that their movement is rooted in anarchism and socialism, I can think of no better way for them to accomplish this than to engage in stunts like this. What is somewhat surprising is that mainstream allies of the Democratic party apparently have no qualms about continuing to align themselves with the movement. They seem to be banking everything on the President’s class warfare campaign. But if the misbehavior from rank and file occupiers is only half as bad as it was last fall, I just don’t see how they can avoid this backfiring. Is rampant anti-Americanism and illegal behavior a recipe for electoral success? I don’t think so, but we’ll find out in November I guess.




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[-] 2 points by gestopomillyy (1695) 8 years ago

america going into debt is not because of the people.. its the government spending on occupation, allowing lopsided trade,wars, billions in oil company subsidies, bailouts with no jobs requirement. you are obviously missing the mark . if we can afford a heart transplant for a 71 year old ex politician.. we can afford free ride down town for a citizen dont you think?

[-] -1 points by F350 (-259) 8 years ago

You missed more then one mark with that post.

[-] 2 points by GeoffH (214) from Jacksonville, FL 8 years ago

Your whole analogy is flawed. The OWS movement is not about getting free stuff from the government. It is about creating civil disobedience to bring to light the atrocity that has become our Governmental body. No longer are the best interests of the people the focus of our government. Instead, the interests of those most willing to 'donate' to the politicians are the focus. In all honesty, I don't know that the OWS is doing enough. I think that we need to mobilize as a movement and getting our followers to be proactive about fighting the banks. I think that we need to cast off the reigns of the Credit System and attack the banks with a weapon they will understand. We should en mass stop paying our mortgages, car loans, student loans, medical bills, insurance, etc. Anything that reports to the Credit Bureau needs to be refused. A relatively small increase in foreclosures brought to bare a great stress on the financial system. What would happen if we actually tried to break the banks? I say it is time to fight!

[-] 2 points by rayl (1007) 8 years ago

yo, mr. truck! the movement wants to take big money's influence out of the government so we can have a more equitable society. you know, government for the people by the people. your claims of demanding free stuff is over-exaggerated to say the least. and electoral success? who are the ows candidates?

[-] 1 points by GypsyKing (8706) 8 years ago

What a buch of crap.


[-] 1 points by TitusMoans (2451) from Boulder City, NV 8 years ago

Your use of the epistemic closure principle against OWS is ironic, since the same argument has been used mainly against conservative movements, but I believe you have hit the nail on the head, though I disagree with your conclusions.

Idealogues, whether conservative or liberal, tend to believe that everyone else agrees with them. Of course, that's not true. The proof is obvious on this forum.

[-] 1 points by RedJazz43 (2757) 8 years ago

OWS has regrouped over the winter and it has become more sophisticated. Of course it's not moving as fast in that direction as many of us will like. That's the nature of social movements. They never correspond even to what their closest adherents would most like.

Nevertheless, its acomplishments are truly astonishing and it continues to move forward. Probably its greatest accomplishment is just getting people out in the streets talking to each other. Beyond that it has energized and inspired virtually every other social movement, all of them expodentially larger than is OWS itself. Most impressive is the alliance between OWS and sections of organized labor, the first such alliance between organized labor and the radical intelligentcia since the 1940s.

It's always easier to worship dead heros from the past than it is to stand in solidarity with contemporary movements. Looked at up close and at the time the civil rights movement had its "issues." Indeed Martin Luther Kings famous "Letter from a Birmingham Jail" was written to address exactly the kind of skepticism one finds in the message at the beginning of this tread.

BTW, Rosa Parks was a member of the Socialist Party as were A. Philip Randolph, Bayard Rustin, James Farmer and many lesser known civil rights leaders.

What "mainstream" currents in the Democratic Party are trying to do is co-opt OWS, just as they successfully coopted every mass movement for human liberation since the days of the Populists. Fortunately OWS is not falling for this, at least not yet.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 8 years ago

the rich are gonna get tax?

[-] 1 points by ogrdanny (73) from Grand Rapids Charter Township, MI 8 years ago
[-] 1 points by Shule (2638) 8 years ago

I was wondering why OWS is out occupying some park open to the public. Maybe it would be more appropriate to occupy some rich guy's front yard (if there is such a thing in NYC?)

[-] 0 points by Odin (583) 8 years ago

"Occupy some rich guys front yard" in NYC...you would probably have to go to Queens or the Hamptons on Long Island