Forum Post: Another discussion that needs to be heard
Posted 13 years ago on Nov. 20, 2011, 10:06 p.m. EST by humanitydiscussion
(51)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
Can democracy exist in any monetary system?
Monetary – individual advancement
Democracy – cooperative advancement
Monetary system cause chaotic work, struggle and self-indulgence
True democracy exist only when any and every individual has the ability to contribute based on their individualistic contribution, not money
I dont think the originated of this post is cleaning to want to use a barter system. He is just saying our current monetary systems are flawed and is asking for new ideas. He isn't picking at anyone he is trying to get conversation on alternate ideas.
yes
Here is the only idea that I have heard out of Ray about this topic and it is shared by many of our friends in the coffee shop.
Put Ben back in the middle of that $100 dollar bill. Talk about a flawed system, looks like the printer was drunk when he ran that sheet of paper through the press.
we should try bagism ? it was big in 70's
All we need is love baby
Cooperative advancement within a monetary system eventually leads to monopolies, and corporatism.
another discussion thats ludicrous to even try having HERE and which can only be meaningfully had on a wiki.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPR3GlpQQJA
I have been active here since the very beginning, and since the very beginning I have been trying to make some core points. These points clearly have not been digested or fully understood by the mob, and so I'm going to try to make a further attempt here again.
For these reasons, I beg of you to please immediately join me on the wiki. We need to have all of these details and all of these ideas put together in an organized fashion, rather than posted in a long scrawl which will never be read.
http://occupythiswiki.org/wiki/THE_99%25_POLITICAL_PARTY
http://occupythiswiki.org/wiki/Main_Page
http://www.followthemoney.org/?gclid=CMbY87bB-qsCFUPt7Qod9HE8mQ
http://maplight.org/us-congress/guide/data/money?9gtype=search&9gkw=list%20of%20campaign%20donations&9gad=6213192521.1&9gag=1786513361&gclid=CP61oYbB-qsCFQFZ7AodcTF0jw
http://www.opensecrets.org/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/our-new-wiki/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/non-violence-evolution-by-paradigm-shift/
Both of these are very broad generalizations. And to be honest it seems like part of your democratic definition is slightly mixed with the only way socialism can work.
To share the power is to share the wealth.
HEY - Ray is right in there with you on that one. He says that every time he turns a light bulb on he feels he is sharing the power and the wealth.
That was what you were talking about, wasn't it bakerj??
Perhaps but I was thinking more along the lines of sharing the money supply.
Oh no another Utopian has landed on the planet. Break out the mandolins and your flower pressing books, we are going to have a love in.
You think this discussion has not gone on throughout time in all cultures? Humans are flawed. Accept it, there is and never will be Utopia.
Your right and wrong at the same time
Pretty good post there humanitydiscussion. BUT - my friend Ray doesn't think that you needed to add that last part about based on "education and knowledge" That just means to him that he might not be heard cause someone might judge him as being one of the group whoisn't one of those intellectually gifted types - not that he is intellectually ungifted either - but just that he has some really good points to make and something to say that is not based on education exactly unless you consider being able to walk through a pasture without stepping on a cowpattie somehow involves what you call an education.
Thats funny you say that, I thought the same thing after i posted it. By education and knowledge I mean the ability to walk and talk and contribute
I'm sure your friend meets that criteria
He sure does, with a little limp from that bullet he took in Nam, but he stands tall and is proud of that limp.
Thanks - have a great day - raining here and we never get enough of that in these parts.
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democray is mob rule.
in a monetary system, yes, thats the point
how would you pay for goods and services? bartering?
you dont need to pay for goods, you think you do
the worlds resources belong to the world, not to any individual
Very socialist sounding statement
Sorry, your stuff, that you worked to pay for belongs to you, the individual.
We as humans die, resources don't. History has shown us that. Educate yourself.
Right on humanity. But I am a little disappointed. I was planning to serve DODO bird for thanksgiving this year and none of the grocery stores around here has any. They said it is kinda of dead resource.
My friend Ray is all about GO GREEN and conserve, he just happens to think that we might run out of a few resources before he, being a human, dies. It happened to his dog, Elmer who got caught in the neighbors' fence and starved to death, and he took that as a warning from Heaven right there and then, that he better get concerned about dwindling resources.
I think he has pushed it a little far by asking for a togo cup for his last 1/4 cup of coffee, but if it works for him, more power to him. Afterall, we got oil coming out of our ears and that styrofoam is easy to make and practically never dies - just sticks around forever. I have never known the coffee shop to run out of coffee, I think they got a resource there that just ain't going to die under any conditions unless there is somekinda flare up in some bean growing part of the world. I though the only source of this resource was Hawaii, but Ray explained that Columbus or someplace like that had something to do with it.
And since this subject keeps coming up, you do have a point about resources not dying. Somebody told me that, that is why the Germans took the gold teeth out of their victims and that if you have a gold ring on your finger today, at least a few atoms of that gold are actually in your ring today. Sure is a good thought isn't it.
Maybe it is just better that we as humans die and not stick around forever. Although, well let's just leave that for another day.
Yea. I wanted some T-Rex pie on my thanksgiving. But you know what, those fools went and allowed the Universe to annihilate them. Would be nice though. I miss my T-Rex pie. . . .
Interestingly, the "people of the Way" - disciples of Jesus - didn't think that way at all. They shared everything... especially a great Joy.
Everything is related to Jesus now. Why don't you people form your own opinions rather than read from an outdated book?
Jesus wasn't a man in the sense the bible states. Its an idea
Scientists have proven that Jesus lived. If you were to say the Holy Ghost or God was an idea then I would be less tempted to argue. Or if you said Jesus represented and idea.
His story represents the idea. Science can't prove what happened thousands of years ago. Maybe he was a man, but it doesn't matter, its the idea. We have not had the means as human to properly track and store data, but we do now.................
His story was a falsehood and is not grounded in what we can observe. Like you just said.
Exactly, its an idea, interpreted by catholics, turned into a story to try and push their philosophy
Are you for or against?
for or against what?
It was realizing God and my place in this universe that allowed me to understand the concepts I do.
Sorry I wasn't clear. Are you an atheist?
WHO SAYS I don't form my own opinions???
I learn from everyone, actually, and it so happens that I find great inspiration in the message of Jesus, of the Bussha, of Rumi, of Martin Luther King, of Nelson Mandela and many others.
I tell you that this morning's newspaper is more outdated than these words from Leviticus : "Love thy neighbor as thyself". I don't "BELIEVE" these words, I LIVE BY them. In spiritual matters, I don't trust the priests or the books, I trust my instincts and my life experiences.
As the Buddha used to say to his disciples : "Do NOT believe a word I say! TEST the teachings, try them out for yourself. And if they pass the test, use them! If not, discard them!"
Because the only thing you mentioned was from Jesus.
See below, where I mention "the Buddha, Lao Tzu, Rumi and others..."
My words to live by are hope for the best and plan for the worst. So right now I'm saving my shells for the day OWS comes to my door demanding my money.
So you're living in fear and possessivity when you could be experiencing love and the joy of sharing... How sad.
You are in effect robbing yourself of the best that this short life on earth has to offer.
Please think about that - not for me, for YOU.
No fear whatsoever. Just a determination to protect what is mine. Your life may be short but mine will be long and happy.
"Denial is not just a river in Egypt"...
Good luck!
Well that is clever. I applaud you. Its wonderful that you think you can help me by acting as if you know so much more about me than I do.
Don't get too religious with this... religion has been tainted throughout history as well. That is the bigger problem than our economy
You may be surprised to hear that I agree with what you just said!!! Few people are more critical of "conventional religion" than I am. I do NOT consider myself as a "Christian", because I feel that over the last 2000 years, Christianity has mostly betrayed the teachings of Jesus.
The REAL, UNALLOYED, UNDISTORTED message of Jesus, does however inspire me very deeply - as do the ORIGINAL teachings of the Buddha, Lao Tzu, Rumi and others. The light shining brightly from the nucleus of those teachings, I don't call "religion" - I call it SPIRITUALITY.
"Religion" is so often - as you rightly point out - part of the PROBLEM, whereas true spirituality is always - in my opinion - part of the SOLUTION.
That being said, I NEVER attempt to "convert" people... But I can't help but bring up the "JOY OF SHARING" because it is something that illuminates my life and that could IMO become part of the "Healing of America".
I too was raised a catholic and understand the greater meaning of Jesus. That is why I am no longer scared to express the ideas that need to be expressed.
The earths resources belong to the world as a whole, no individual.
Money is not a resource of the earth, it was created by man.
Money must be removed from the equation, but cannot be done so with out the world collectively coming to this understanding
AGREE.
Sorry, My stuff , worked for an paid for by me , is mine. Charity is something else, choosing to donate is different.
Spirituality teaches us that when we become too attached to our "possessions", THEY in fact possess US.
YOU perhaps, if you have any possessions. NOT me.
Well, you do sound obsessively attached to your "stuff"...
I am attached to my family, stuff just makes like comfortable.
Do you also treasure the human family - the great family of humanity?
what had that got to do with my possessions?
Think about it...
What I have, what I purchase is my business. I am not interested in a global govt.
Good, i'll just take my lump of coal and try to make IT warm me. I don't need anyone to manufacture matches, to make a stove to put it in. I may die of fumes holding my bucket of iron that could have been converted into a stove pipe, but what the heck, I got my lump.
Tell me again about the world's resources. You must be sitting under a tree, Mr. Newton.
And the resources of the Moon belong to everyone also, right. SO, since I am busy with the coffee shop today, would you please go to the moon, get me a shiny, rock, polish it, configure it into a ring, and put it on my finger. Please don't ask me to pay you for your value added, after all, the worlds resources belong to the world.
You aren't making clear sense.
I am trying to make sense, whether it is clear or not may be in the light of the beholder.
Resources may belong to the world if they stay as resources in that world and no one touches them.
As soon as someone touches them, picks them up, adds something to that resource, it no longer belongs to the world unless you want to pay for the value added to the resource and throw it back onto the resource pile.
EX: the Aztec people traded as far north as Ray's ranch in northern Arizona. They may have traded sea shells, BUT there was always value added for that long walk up there. I expect the reverse is true if the Anazazie (sp) walked down to the Aztec lands to get them cheaper.
True democracy can't exist period.