Forum Post: Anonymous Occupy Solutions - Uniting Humans | Make this viral!
Posted 12 years ago on Nov. 11, 2011, 3:09 p.m. EST by AnonymousOccupySolutions
(37)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
This message is to all of anonymous AND occupiers: Anonymous Central AND OccupyBend News supports the direction of a Resource Based World Economy:
http://anoncentral.tumblr.com/post/12599163860/occupy-solutions-uniting-humans
http://www.occupybend.org/news.php?73
Make this viral!
Anonymous Occupy Solutions - Uniting Humans
http://www.change.org/petitions/our-current-world-leaders-usher-in-a-resource-based-economy-rbe-2
This is the main petition site, there is already 47,000 signatures: http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/The-future-that-Humanity-Deserves/
The way real science works is you do the experiment and then you say what the results are. You cant just declare your theory to be the solution. I'm not even totally against this idea, I just think your going about it in a very backward way.
Why can't you put 400 passengers in 200 passenger airliner? You don't have to do it to know that it will not get up off the ground. You have to know what the horse-power of the engines are, the wing area, the capacity for carrying the lift. It can't take off with 400 passengers, you don't have to build it to find out. You know enough about the sciences, technology and the methods of evaluation to anticipate. When you put 2,000 passengers on a cruse, that right there will tell you how much of what is needed, how much food, etc is needed to make the journey It's already known, you don't have to do it, one has to have a basis for their assumptions. This idea came from 70 years of evaluations based on scientific methods to arriving at solutions.
you guys should gather up the true believers, buy some land and build the 1st resource based city. Then you will at least have some hard evidence to present to the skeptics.
no, i dont support global economy. who are you speaking for? That's how they got us into this mess, imagine if they had ALL the world's money to play with...
Why an how would they get all the money!? You need to understand what RBE is! Don't listen to what others say learn for yourself. For humanity
There is no money in a global resource based economy. All goods and services are available WITHOUT the use of money, credits, barter or any other system of debt or servitude (terminating all forms of manipulation and control). All resources become the common heritage of all the Earth's people, thus eventually outgrowing the need for the artificial boundaries that separate people. This is the unifying imperative
Who is this 'they' you speak of?
"Make this viral." Love that. It's like saying "Be spontaneous, NOW!"
I was going to comment at http://anoncentral.tumblr.com/post/12599163860/occupy-solutions-uniting-humans but the server software has preferred corporate advancement over human comment. My browser is obsoleted automatically by the use of that software on that site. ---
Awareness of the absolute which has corporations unwitting being accepted intheir sabotage of humanities need to communicate must be overcome, because humanity cannot assemble on the ground, they must do it on the web.----
The lack of understanding of what technology and corporations are doing to the internet by these methods needs to be understood or the concept of anoncentral is a failure before it begins.----
Of course a resource based economy is the only thing nature can support. Duh, no brainer that humanity would eventually have to live within the confines of its closed system. What is missing is the citation of any existing authority that supports the same ends. And, it does exist. It is the US constitution with its principles placing "life" first. It has the authority to stop every cop in his tracks from disrupting peaceful defense of the constitution, but those starting this movement appear as oblivious to this fact as they are to the fact that their serve software conforms to corporate standards before it does the existing software on peoples computers.-----
Uh, get real. The people do not have the money to keep up with the latest server software. Dumb down your site. Degrade your software. Abandon bells and whistles in favor of more people being involved.
"What is missing is the citation of any existing authority that supports the same ends. And, it does exist. It is the US constitution" A resource based economy outlines an alternative to strive toward where human rights are no longer paper proclamations but a way of life.
What would happen if there were no limits on how you conduct your life, there were no laws or legislation's, no politics or government, and no limits on the conditions of your life? Where does that leave democracy or the constitution? It would be irreverent and void of meaning.
Only in a society based on limits do people feel the need for what is known as "democracy". In a resource based economy, its not that you don't have democracy, it's that it's irrelevant because you are not limited.
Read here for more information: "How Does Democracy Work in a Resource Based World Economy?": http://www.unitinghumans.com/2011/11/how-does-democracy-work-in-resource.html
AnonymousOccupySolutions wrote: A resource based economy outlines an alternative to strive toward where human rights are no longer paper proclamations but a way of life.END----
I totally get that and seek definition of the authority by which you will manifest such things? You talk philosophy, well understood. I talk law in control of our world and how to interface with it to manifest the ideals your page works to share but still is way too corporately concieved/loaded site for me to view. My computer and browser are obsolete and there is no money for upgrades. You shoot yourself in the foot with a corporate bullet.
http://www.unitinghumans.com/2011/11/how-does-democracy-work-in-resource.html
That complex corporate sales format with enless text in sidebar naveigation is hival corporate advertising thinking and is eliminating its outreach to people getting poorer each day. Here is a useful web page that anyone on the planet can view instantly which communicates simple facts about the historically, globally prominant document supporting human civil rights, the US constitution and use of itself to defend itself.------
http://algoxy.com/ows/strategyofamerica.html
We have never known a constitutional government. If we had, none of the complaints that exist now, would. Peace and prosperity towards sustainability would prevail.
The US constitution is commonly known as "the rights and freedoms of the people" However, when you are "given rights", it means you also have rights taken away. If you had ALL your rights to do as you please, there would be no "given rights" applied to you. Hence every-time you are "given rights", "given freedoms", "given democracy" you can be certain that some of your rights and freedoms are being taken away.
Only in a society based on limits do people feel the need for what is known as "rights", "freedoms" and "democracy". In a resource based economy, these things become irrelevant because you are not limited. You conduct your own life based on how you see fit without any limitations. You don't need your voice heard because there are no restricts holding your voice down, there are no authorities to restrict you.
A resource based world economy outlines an alternative to strive toward where human rights are no longer paper proclamations but a way of life.
I recognize the distinction, but would re interpret to say that the way that a "resource based economy" works is the same as modern perceptions of anarchy. The material limits anarchy recognize are natural and of course have nothing to do with regulating speech.-------
I would be a master anarchist in a real world because I understand exactly how the world operated before the written word. I'm certain no one on this board can accurately describe that Also, I have an understanding of anarchy that works from a more human perspective. It goes like this.----
A perfect anarchy is one where everyone in it knows everything there is to know about needs and will never place a want over a need.----
All people would agree that ALL human beings need clean air, water, food, a relevant education, and the necessities of life. The resources of life. Hence a resource based economy.
Wants are not infinite, they are created and conditioned in by this system to keep the economy going. An economy that produces junk that is designed to break down overtime shortly after the warranty expires, just so people will buy another (since it is actually cheaper to buy new than to replace the damaged part: purposefully also by design) and keep the economy going; is not the definition of a truer economy. It is actually an anti-economy since it produces nonrecycleable products destroying the planet and ripping it of limited resources.
AnonymousOccupySolutions wrote: All people would agree that ALL human beings need clean air, water, food, a relevant education, and the necessities of life. The resources of life. Hence a resource based economy.END------
How about, "Hence is the basis in reason for a resource based economy."
Such an argument is absolutely constitutional, but for a much more constitutional people than we currently are.-------
AnonymousOccupySolutions wrote: Wants are not infinite,------
They are a feeling created by your limbic system. They are also called desires.
AnonymousOccupySolutions wrote: they are created and conditioned in by this system------
The wants and desires are created by exploitation of the limbic system by invoking instincts.
AnonymousOccupySolutions wrote: to keep the economy going. An economy that produces junk that is designed to break down overtime shortly after the warranty expires,----------
An economy based on the ethics that promote acumulation of wealth maximized as being the best thing a human can reach for, creates corporations that manipulate ANYTHING to increase profits.
You definitely have the right idea, but are making assumptions that are not completely or accurately based, leaving a weak argument. Not wrong, just weak. Also leaving out the authority needed to manifest what you suggest is a major shortcoming. Making the whole thing look fantasy based when its not. The US constitution is completely parallel to all things you strive for, and the authority to eventually manifest them is there too.------
It's a matter of alignment under the constitution by citizens in majority to assure its principles are what controls government, and the majority. it really is very simple, basically biology, but termed before that science, natural law. Resource based economy is also.
U.S. has Never been a Democracy: http://www.unitinghumans.com/2010/02/jacque-fresco-us-has-never-been.html
There are 2 aspects, the ideal, and what was or is. The ideal has democratic control over the constitution which carries the principles of the representational republic through article 5. Certainly after the civil war, any democratic expression of governance was mostly ended because the government left in power was never made consititutional. Most importantly, the word "never" cannot be shown related to democracy, even if we only actually find an ideal. Ultimately I thing there were democratic events that were allowed in order to keep up the front.-----
I like Jacques ideas but he has no transitory concept that will carry us to materialization of them. In that case it's largely fantasy, a quality fantasy, but a fantasy and, no good method of manifestation is defined. I would propose that IF one likes Jaques ideas, THEN they need to look towards manifestiing the far more tangible ideal of the constitution and democratic control over the federal government by altering its operating parameters, the consititution.----
Jaque presents more of a paradigm than a solution. Solution of problems requires power, authority or long periods of time with slowly changing practices.-----
Jaque also leaves out the role of the unconscious mind in human behavior, both limiting the implimentation of his paradigm and creating the problems his paradigm seem soluative to. Essentially this leaves the same twisted power regimes in control, because they are the only ones with the wealth to create what he suggests.----
We need to engage use of the unconscious mind to limit our demands on the resource, not to mention the ending of war, unconscioius opposition and conflict.
"The ideal has democratic control over the constitution which carries the principles of the representational republic through article 5." <---- Only in a society based on limits do people feel the need for what is known as "rights", "freedoms" and "democracy". In a resource based economy, these things become irrelevant because you are not limited. You conduct your own life based on how you see fit without any limitations. You don't need your voice heard because there are no restricts holding your voice down, there are no authorities to restrict you.
"Solution of problems requires power, authority or long periods of time with slowly changing practices" <----- This is the way it has always been, yes, and there have always been war and rumor of wars too, but the cause of war is one country wanting the resources of another country. In a resource based economy all resources become the common heritage of all the Earth's people, thus eventually outgrowing the need for the artificial boundaries that separate people. This is the unifying imperative. How could war happen if there are no countries deciding to have conflict with another country? All of Jacque's ideas go straight to the root of the causes behind problems.
"Jaque also leaves out the role of the unconscious mind in human behavior" <--- Which one is at fault the unconscious mind or the conscious mind? Who is at fault the Drug dealer or the addict? They are reverse sides of the same coin.
AnonymousOccupySolutions wrote: Only in a society based on limits do people feel the need for what is known as "rights", "freedoms" and "democracy". In a resource based economy, these things become irrelevant because you are not limited.END-----
There is an inconsistency above that seems re occuring. Resource is physical, natural elemental matter. "rights", "freedoms" and "democracy" are concepts. The 2 do not mix in any way other than our uses of "rights", "freedoms" and "democracy" to secure our need for resource. Those are all activities of communication and not matter.------
The limits of the constitution are there to prevent ignorance or disregard for need from removing what is needed for life. To end the constitution is to create chaos UNLESS you educate every person into every need and assure they will never place a want over a need.------
These are things that are controlled by the unconscious mind. Wants are infinite and needs are limited. Corporations benefit when we only know our wants, and they meet our needs.
AnonymousOccupySolutions wrote: "Jacque also leaves out the role of the unconscious mind in human behavior" <--- Which one is at fault the unconscious mind or the conscious mind? Who is at fault the Drug dealer or the addict? They are reverse sides of the same coin.END-----
Addiction is a false need. Both the addict and the dealer are based on a want or desire and not a real need. Leaving out the unconscious mind means that neither of them changes their behavior until they are dead. Their conscious minds, One 7th the capacity of their unconscious, is only there to count the money and evade law enforcement.
"The 2 do not mix in any way other than our uses of "rights", "freedoms" and "democracy" to secure our need for resource. Those are all activities of communication and not matter." <------ When engineers are communicating on building a bridge there is no problem in the communication when it comes to the structure and process to carry out the completion of the bridge. The reason being is that all bridge engineers have the same exact information. When building a bridge everything is done by measurements and mathematics, there is no misinformation in the communication. Hence there is no gap in the translation since it is not based on interpretation, perspective, opinion, or any misinformation. When all bridge engineers are trained with the same up-to-date knowledge and information, there are no opinions in building a bridge, just a symptomatic format of information.
In other words, there's no democratic way or communistic way to design an aircraft reactor, a sewer system, a medical laboratory, or a bridge; since it's not based on opinion but up-to-date knowledge and training in relevant information to that given field. There's only an efficient way and a less efficient way, a way that works well and a way that doesn't work well, a way that is reliable and a way that gives constant trouble. If and when better ways are discovered on how to build and design such systems than the knowledge is updated according to the new information based on the scientific method of experimenting.
"The limits of the constitution are there to prevent ignorance or disregard for need from removing what is needed for life. To end the constitution is to create chaos UNLESS you educate every person into every need and assure they will never place a want over a need" <---------- A Resource-Based World Economy is not composed of opinions, beliefs, or groups of people based on ideas; everything is approached through the scientific method. The same method we we all taught in school on how to find answers to problems (using this format terminates all forms of opinions or beliefs controlling or leading the system astray and as you say places want or need). You must be able to present facts for your beliefs or opinions. You must have verifiable evidence that what you claim is not just an opinion or belief for a selected few or group. With the scientific method everything is based on facts that can be proven and can be reconstructed by anybody.
If we don't apply the scientific method to all our approaches, the system will revert back to the same opinionated politics we have today in which the belief of a few are deemed effective for the whole of society.
Whatever else people decide to do based on similar beliefs, opinions, and ideas; they are welcome. There is no control. There is just a understanding that you can't participate where you don't have the skills or training.
Using this format to arrive at decisions each individual would have more control of their life than they can ever imagine possible because there are no limitations holding you back from being you. No money limits, no border limits, no purchasing power limits. no limits on health care, free education, no limits to the resources of life, etc.. since all goods and services are available without the use of money, credits, barter or any other system of debt or servitude (terminating all forms of manipulation and control). You lead your own life without restrictions on the manner it is lived; this is what true freedom is all about. ......................................................... "Wants are infinite and needs are limited." Wants are not infinite, they are created and conditioned in by this system to keep the economy going. However, the want for money is infinite.
Money is the only thing in existence that can buy ANY other resource or service on the planet. Making money the most valuable thing in existence.
Money has no personal qualities. Anybody who has money, has power; with or without ethics, contribution, invention or offering anything that benefits humans. Therefore money and anybody who can make the most money, is rewarded in this system.
Money is unlike anything else because the desire for it is unlimited. The man who has 1 million, wants 10 million. The man who has 10 million wants 100 million. There is no end to the desire of this thing we call money because we linked it to everything in the universe.
Everything else in the universe, you can reach a tolerance. You reach a point where you have had enough and you no longer want. Money knows no limit, people want unlimited qualities of it. Due to this fact, it has become something else different from anything else in the universe.
I figured something out. What you present as a-
Resource-Based World Economy ---
is actually a perceptual paradigm, not an economy . . . yet. But it needs to be. You've assumed it already is because it is logical that it be so.
Your error I point out here,----
"The 2 do not mix in any way other than our uses of "rights", "freedoms" and "democracy" to secure our need for resource. Those are all activities of communication and not matter.""
has not been addressed.----
This copied and pasted from your reply.---
_The limits of the constitution are there to prevent ignorance or disregard for need from removing what is needed for life. To end the constitution is to create chaos UNLESS you educate every person into every need and assure they will never place a want over a need" <---------- A Resource-Based World Economy is not composed of opinions, beliefs, or groups of people based on ideas;_
Hmmmm, you have not addressed my point, instead misrepresent it by responding that I am discussing "opinions, beliefs". The notion of "natural law" is reduced to an "idea". The philosophizing on money is not germaine and a value judgement, not necessarily wrong but semantically lacking. In my statement I indicate EDUCATION into needs as the basis of establishing a Resource-Based World Economy.------
Education into the natural law, or resource based needs, reality that the constitution must be to manifest its intent, is the first step. Then we can create peace and cease using resources in destructive endeavor.
I believe Jacque wanted to obtain funding to create a major motion film to spread awareness further into the mainstream public. From the proceeds he may continue creating media which would fund a test city.
By that time many people would be well aware of the idea. The test city itself would have an amusement park to increase income further.
So all these steps are proposed and planned to occur within a monetary system.
http://www.thevenusproject.com/get-involved/major-motion-picture-donations
As for the unconscious mind, raising questions will pull such problems into consciousness. Sure many will initially react with opposition but through continued exposure they will begin to question this reaction themselves. From there it comes down to what we can prove.
Perhaps in another economy where a monetary system around a motion picture could be created and marketed, like one 15 years ago.----
I would suggest that we are due for massive conservation and re orientation in our energy base, and dealing with the unconscious factors to enable a transition would be very logical. Just dealing with consumerism, not to mention outright sustainable action.---
I'm a builder so know what Jacque is proposing. How about Paoli Solari, he's more down to earth. http://scodpub.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/arcosanti.jpg
Yes I'd hate to admit it but it is very likely that monetary reforms will be necessary before transitioning into a resource based economy. In the meantime, many more jobs need to be provided and infrastructure projects could potentially provide those jobs. The creation of high tech self sustaining test cities could provide many of those jobs within the current system.
Also much of our current infrastructure (roads, aqueducts, power lines, bridges, dams) are in disrepair. Updating them with newer technologies would also provide many jobs in the meantime. However, I can't answer whether this patch work to existing infrastructure would be more beneficial than simply developing brand new cities.
One example of a potential infrastructure project: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ep4L18zOEYI&feature=share
I believe the venus project cities proposed are slightly different from other proposed sustainable cities because there appear to be many more automated and mechanized functions involved. Transitioning into an economy reliant on volunteers (rather than wage slaves) will increasingly depend on these technologies.
In anycase, sprawl would need to be addressed and a land tax would help.
"Yes I'd hate to admit it but it is very likely that monetary reforms will be necessary before transitioning into a resource based economy." <------- All that is need is for people to be educated on the idea of a resource based economy. This CAN happen overnight and in fact right now if enough people are aware of it. Just like the Occupy Movement, how long did it take for that grow global; this idea is the same thing and can spread like virus.
"In the meantime, many more jobs need to be provided and infrastructure projects could potentially provide those jobs." <----- The end of the monetary system is near due to technological unemployment, due to this fact alone, the monetary system can not be fixed even if you were to forgive all debts and tax the rich and end the fed; it still will come to an end. This is one of the top reason why jobs are disappearing: http://www.unitinghumans.com/search/label/Technological%20Unemployment
In an economy that produces junk, that is designed to break down overtime shortly after the warranty expires, just so people will buy another (since it is actually cheaper to buy new than to replace the damaged part: purposefully also by design) JUST to keep the economy going; is not the definition of a true economy. It is actually an anti-economy since it produces nonrecycleable products destroying the planet and ripping it of limited resources. Instead we need a true economy with global abundance and effective sustainability: http://www.unitinghumans.com/2011/10/true-economy-global-abundance.html
Most people fear to live under a dictatorship but fail to realize that nature is the most powerful dictatorship known to humanity. If we don't unite together and declare that all of the earth's resources are held as the common heritage of all of the earth's people, we will perish as a species! Nature has made it very clear. Every cell works together for the whole health of the body, any other arrangement; the body dies. This is the natural order for ANY system in nature and the universe, humans are no exception. A Resource Based World Economy is the application of natures way to the social system. http://www.unitinghumans.com/2011/10/resource-based-world-economy.html
The collapse is soon, we don't have much time; make this viral!
"All that is need is for people to be educated on the idea of a resource based economy." This is true for beginning the transition, however there will exist opposition. This is especially true of those that love power and money.
As long as confidence in the current social system exists the money system will also continue to exist. Even now, people are dieing to maintain the system. One of the leading causes of death in the 2nd largest agricultural nation, India, is hunger. And public revolt in certain nations are suppressed through violence. War and cyclical consumption ravage the planet in order to keep the monetary system alive. All of this shows how devastating the monetary system is but it also proves how religious its supporters are in maintaining it at all costs.
The monetary system has many many ways of propping itself up. The advent of installed credit purchasing for example created artificial scarcity when production was overabundant (relative to the monetary system). Even the long term issue of technological unemployment can be managed in the short term by creating new or expanding (useless) job sectors. Competing currencies can easily replace old ones. And war can force countries to wipe debts clean..
On a sidenote: there are plans for world central bank which would make a bad situation worse if adopted by enough nations. It would undermine all governments involved and centralize power to that single bank. It would then have enough power to pressure other nations to join.
Point is, a collapse will only occur if people begin losing confidence in the monetary system itself. Many just lack confidence in government or fiat currency. How many, if given the option would commit to a theoretical high tech resource based economy now over a monetary system that has existed throughout most of man's known history?
I've been informing many people about the resource based economy and all the skeptics give the same general response. When there is a working model (test city) maybe they'll see it differently. And the only way I know of creating test cities (without dragging the world into massive conflicts) is to create them within a monetary system because many countries will suppress this from their citizens. And as obviously shown in Occupy, the mainstream media will outright lie about it.
So educating people on a RBE is required but it isn't straightforward. It will require clear explanations from many perspectives. But in the meantime, unrest is rising against the current system and the clock is ticking.
Yes, monetary reforms are needed because of human factors. The fears people know disable their effective cooperation, for that reason alone stabile economy is needed before transition.--
This is great!------ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ep4L18zOEYI&feature=share
I can see it will be some years before the technology is perfected, then implimentation has an immense cost, making years more. It is a great transition beginning because when our roads produce the energy we need our fear levels will drop to the point where the obvious resource based existence will be plain to see for everyone.------
Sprawl is a population issue, and cities might not be as efficient as towns and villages, or as desireable because they seem to breed irresponsibility and non accountability. I'm under the impression that they are mostly European concepts and may have been invented to create political power bases and armies. Sustainability requires empirical study upon our human norms and tendencies.
In regards to efficiency, per resident, Manhattan is actually the greenest city in America. Higher density populations lead to more sustainable lifestyles unconsciously and reduce redundancy in many ways.
Simply by providing shared access to many common utilities (within walking distance) efficiencies are increased. Also sprawl has lead to the destruction of nature. As lower density populations spread out more businesses, roads, schools, hospitals, etc. must be developed to accommodate them.
This breeds much more irresponsible and unaccountable development than city maintenance does. Although advanced technologies could significantly reduce (or reverse) our impact on nature they are very unlikely to be used within a monetary system. Real conservation then should be focused on creating more high density population areas that are sustainable.
http://persquaremile.com/2011/01/18/if-the-worlds-population-lived-in-one-city/
Yes, I know those statistics, but that is really cherry picking. I do know what you mean and it is true, particularly with the vertical aspects that cities save space and energy. Consider I don't advocate sprawl and see that city type structure with a sharp edge to a natural environment with no sprawl leaves nature to itself where possible. There are maximum sizes that are acceptable to nature, that is my point.--------
Another aspect is our psychology, I don't really consider our species far past a "hunter gatherer" in many ways in fact there are some signs we are treating ourselves as if we are more advanced and that is screwing us up. Meaning sprawl sort of works here in America, for some of it, and we need to psychologically evolve into smaller, more vertical space called a city.
That same psychology can help us to adjust our population over time so it is optimum, and because of wasteful behaviors, we currently have no real idea of what that optimum is when balanced with renewable energy sources considered.----
Getting past the behavioral issues in patterns of existence, or the political divisions that create them and keep them dominate for control and profit might be prime sociological factors upon which all else depends.
Interesting link BTW! It illustrates your point well.