Welcome login | signup
Language en es fr

Forum Post: Animal Farm Meets Lord of the Rings. LOL - You Just Can't Make This Stuff Up!

Posted 11 years ago on Oct. 21, 2011, 5:29 p.m. EST by PolkaDot (121) from Manhasset, NY
This content is user submitted and not an official statement


All occupiers are equal — but some occupiers are more equal than others. In wind-whipped Zuccotti Park, new divisions and hierarchies are threatening to upend Occupy Wall Street and its leaderless collective.

As the protest has grown, some of the occupiers have spontaneously taken charge on projects large and small. But many of the people in Zuccotti Park aren't taking direction well, leading to a tense Thursday of political disagreements, the occasional shouting match, and at least one fistfight.

It began, as it so often does, with a drum circle. The ten-hour groove marathons weren’t sitting well with the neighborhood’s community board, the ironically situated High School of Economics and Finance that sits on the corner of Zuccotti Park, or many of the sleep-deprived protesters.

“[The high school] couldn’t teach,” explained Josh Nelson, a 27-year-old occupier from Nebraska. “And we’ve had issues with the drummers too. They drum incessantly all day, and really loud.” Facilitators spearheaded a General Assembly proposal to limit the drumming to two hours a day. “The drumming is a major issue which has the potential to get us kicked out," said Lauren Digion, a leader on the sanitation working group.

But the drums were fun. They brought in publicity and money. Many non-facilitators were infuriated by the decision and claimed that it had been forced through the General Assembly.

“They’re imposing a structure on the natural flow of music," said Seth Harper, an 18-year-old from Georgia. “The GA decided to do it ... they suppressed people’s opinions. I wanted to do introduce a different proposal, but a big black organizer chick with an Afro said I couldn’t.”

To Shane Engelerdt, a 19-year-old from Jersey City and self-described former “head drummer,” this amounted to a Jacobinic betrayal. “They are becoming the government we’re trying to protest," he said. "They didn’t even give the drummers a say ... Drumming is the heartbeat of this movement. Look around: This is dead, you need a pulse to keep something alive.”

The drummers claim that the finance working group even levied a percussion tax of sorts, taking up to half of the $150-300 a day that the drum circle was receiving in tips. “Now they have over $500,000 from all sorts of places,” said Engelerdt. “We’re like, what’s going on here? They’re like the banks we’re protesting."



Read the Rules
[-] 3 points by anotherone773 (734) from Carlyle, IL 11 years ago

Some people are spoiled. A lot of people have joined this movement since i joined. Instead of adapting to the movement, many of them expect the movement to adapt to them. The movement is a democracy. Not an anarchy. People need to learn the difference.

It doesnt mean you can do whatever you want. Just like you cannot do whatever you want in life. Do people think this is some kind of utopia where they can do whatever without any regard for anyone else?

I dont think a lot of people understand what this movement is about or how it works. They join anyway but get mad and cause problems when they cannot do what they want.

[-] 2 points by PolkaDot (121) from Manhasset, NY 11 years ago

All belongings and money in the park are supposed to be held in common, but property rights reared their capitalistic head when facilitators went to clean up the park, which was looking more like a shantytown than usual after several days of wind and rain. The local community board was due to send in an inspector, so the facilitators and cleaners started moving tarps, bags, and personal belongings into a big pile in order to clean the park.

But some refused to budge. A bearded man began to gather up a tarp and an occupier emerged from beneath, screaming: “You’re going to break my fucking tent, get that shit off!” Near the front of the park, two men in hoodies staged a meta-sit-in, fearful that their belongings would be lost or appropriated.

Daniel Zetah, a 35-year-old lead facilitator from Minnesota, mounted a bench. “We need to clear this out. There are a bunch of kids coming to stay here.” One of the hoodied men fought back: “I’m not giving up my space for fucking kids."

[-] 1 points by peacefulwarrior (86) 11 years ago

I am not sure if this site is just full of trolls, or if it was purposefully created by the opposition to OWS to impostor a OWS support site... so to see who's who, and also to try to spread mis-information in attempts to diminish power from the movement. i'm still forming my opinion. i am new here...

[-] 1 points by peacefulwarrior (86) 11 years ago

haarp mind / mood manipulation, not to mention haarp weather manipulation, and as well, implanting their own to imposter OWS protesters so to infiltrate, manipulate, in attempts to divide and conquer. bad weather obviously elevates stress and tensions- they are living outside most of them! mind / mood manipulation... electromagnetic frequencies... cell phones... most likely the only people who will understand what i am saying here are those who already know what i am saying and those who are genuinely interested enough to research it.

[-] 1 points by peacefulwarrior (86) 11 years ago

a lot of way more spoiled people are in the 1%. They def. believe they can do whatever they want in life... and a lot of what they want to do is horrifying and totally criminal, and it severe conflict with the basic rights of the 99%. we can't expect everything about OWS to be perfect. we are after all humans. just because some people may act less than at times does not speak for the character of everyone in the movement nor does it speak for the movement itself. Actually, it doesn't even nearly sum up the person, or people who are behaving as less than, because they may not necessarily always behave in such ways... I am not trying to shift the blame, but I am willing to bet tptb brought in haarp boxes. i have seen haarp boxes in nyc before when there wasn't even protests... I have seen them at normal gatherings of youth in parks hanging out, playing music, etc... and I have seen them during election times... Just curious if anyone has noticed them at OWS?

[-] 1 points by peacefulwarrior (86) 11 years ago

please, they are bound to get grumpy... most at least are making personal sacrifices to be there. it can't be that comfortable, especially in wind and rain and the cold! they are human. i don't think that aspect at least is about as someone said: without boundaries human can be a nasty bunch... I do agree that healthy boundaries are very important for humans... on a personal level, and that includes gov't.

[-] 1 points by riethc (1149) 11 years ago

People should research Democracy a little bit before forming a leaderless, collective. Often times in history, Democracies have lead to tyranny.

[-] 1 points by howRya (42) 11 years ago

Are any of the occupiers actually from New York City?

[-] 1 points by AMCD (46) from Antioch, CA 11 years ago

Growing pains. People with unrealistic expectations. People who show up just to say "I was there" rather than be part of the solution. Some people are there to disrupt the movement. Some are there thinking they can change the world with their personal extreme views.

Without rules we have anarchy. Learn to get along. Learn that you cannot have everything your own way. Compromise is cooperating together, for the good of all.

This kind of thing is bound to happen. The "Leaders" of OWS are walking a fine line between being a democracy and having the power to make decisions outside of the process. And in the end they are not perfect. They will make mistakes. People who don't get their way will be upset.

I hope the OWS does their best and the movement stays true. But if they fracture and disintegrate another group will take their place. We understand what it is we must do. PROTEST.

Those of you that are happy that there are divisions within OWS are the enemies of change. The OWS has already accomplished much. They've changed the dialog in our country. They've shown the world that average Americans do care about what is happening here.

OWS has lead the way. Whether or not they continue to lead is not the issue. The issue is whether WE continue to protest for change.

I am grateful for OWS. They are heroes to me.


[-] 1 points by PolkaDot (121) from Manhasset, NY 11 years ago

Ahhh .... and now we get down to it ...

In response to dissatisfaction with the consensus General Assembly, many facilitators have adopted a new “spokescouncil” model, which allows each working group to act independently without securing the will of the collective. “This streamlines it,” argued Zonkers. “The GA is unwieldy, cumbersome, and redundant."

Governing's a bitch. So lets ditch that whole democracy thing and just appoint ourselves the Enforcers.

[-] 1 points by gawdoftruth (3698) from Santa Barbara, CA 11 years ago

yep. lacking the kind of organization i proposed- wikis and sub forums- anarchy always turns into oligarchy.

its not too late to start the trend, but what will happen is the whole thing will fracture into affinity groups unless they get that national wiki up and start working the issues someplace.

[-] 1 points by Flsupport (578) 11 years ago

And what is Polkadot's solution to the ills of the world?

[-] 1 points by PolkaDot (121) from Manhasset, NY 11 years ago

Don't tax 50% of the drummers take. Everyone knows it's those greedy saxaphone players that are sitting on all the money. #OCCUPYJAZZBANDS

[-] 0 points by Frankie (733) 11 years ago

Drummers always get dissed. Look at how they treated Ringo.

[-] 1 points by howRya (42) 11 years ago


[-] -1 points by AntiCorp (187) 11 years ago

Too funny!