Forum Post: Anarchy
Posted 12 years ago on Oct. 22, 2011, 3:36 p.m. EST by LHanns
(16)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
I want to raise an important topic here: I got the impression that amongst you fellows there is quite often a misunderstanding of what the word "Anarchy" actually means. You think, it means Chaos. And therefore you fear that signs of Anarchists or the Anarchists amongst you shed a wrong light upon your movement.
But actually the opposite is true. Anarchy in true sense of meaning is a society without power - or in modern terms, the abolishment of domination of few people, of institutions, of state. And moreover, Anarchy doesn't mean, there would be no order. There would be the order the people give themselves voluntarily - and not the one imposed by others.
Anarchy is not the society in which everybody is everyones wolf but the society based on mutual aid.
And this is not a fantasy, it actually works. There are examples in history. I want to give one:
** EXAMPLE
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchism_in_Spain#1936_Revolution
"I had dropped more or less by chance into the only community of any size in Western Europe where political consciousness and disbelief in capitalism were more normal than their opposites. Up here in Aragon one was among tens of thousands of people, mainly though not entirely of working-class origin, all living at the same level and mingling on terms of equality. In theory it was perfect equality, and even in practice it was not far from it. There is a sense in which it would be true to say that one was experiencing a foretaste of Socialism, by which I mean that the prevailing mental atmosphere was that of Socialism. Many of the normal motives of civilized life--snobbishness, money-grubbing, fear of the boss, etc.--had simply ceased to exist. The ordinary class-division of society had disappeared to an extent that is almost unthinkable in the money-tainted air of England; there was no one there except the peasants and ourselves, and no one owned anyone else as his master." -- George Orwell
/EXAMPLE
I don't want to convince you here to get Anarchists - but maybe I wish that would come true ;) - but my primary goal of these lines is to tell you what the term Anarchy means and that it is not Chaos.
If you understand this concept you will better understand what this international movement is about: It is about power, our power. IN MY OPINION THIS IS SO IMPORTANT THAT IF YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND THIS CONCEPT AND EVEN FEAR OF "ANARCHY" PREVAILS THIS MOVEMENT IS DOOMED TO FAIL. For if we don't understand we are uniting to struggle for our power and not for some breadcrumbs from the 1% we will go into an entirely wrong direction.
If you don't fall into the trap to think of Anarchy as Chaos you can understand that the problem is not only that we are being ruled by the 1% but that we let them do that at the same time. Our only chance of changing something is that YOU, the person in front of the screen that reads this sentence, the 99% of the world, understand that they are ruled by the 1%. But only because we, the 99% let them do so.
I believe people dislike the idea of Anarchy for the same reasons they dislike the idea of a United Federation of Nations, or a World Government. They fear the bad of it, that we all are surely not yet advanced enough to govern ourselves, and to do what is naturally right. So they fear ideas like this because they believe we are all corrupted.
I think not. Not all of us are corrupted, not all of us is always out to do the 'bad' thing. I sometimes think whether we should just make our own country.
I believe in anarchy for myself, I just don't trust everyone else with it.
How do you keep your community safe from outside invaders in the ideal anarchic world?
Of course by defending yourself. This is actually an important aspect of the concept. Because we are so used to give all power to our institutions we forgot how to defend ourselves. But this actually is possible.
For bigger enemies you have to unite of course, but even that is possible with anarchist priciples.
anarchy is just the rebel without a clue excuse for not picking up a textbook on sociology. its a stupid, ignorant ideology, detached from reality and detached from right action. Anarchism is one more way that people are divided and conquered by the elites. its just one more ism; team purple in the giant bread and circuses con scam mind game chess of propaganda. anybody promoting or fronting for anarchy has failed epicly to grow up, failed epicly to bother to read and get educated, and failed epicly to actually escape the matrix and is instead sucking the ass of corporate oligarchy.
bother to read some textbooks.
http://www.followthemoney.org/?gclid=CMbY87bB-qsCFUPt7Qod9HE8mQ
http://maplight.org/us-congress/guide/data/money?9gtype=search&9gkw=list%20of%20campaign%20donations&9gad=6213192521.1&9gag=1786513361&gclid=CP61oYbB-qsCFQFZ7AodcTF0jw
http://www.opensecrets.org/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/non-violence-evolution-by-paradigm-shift/
sorry, I bother to read some textbooks. And Anarchy is no ism ;) (And none of your links deals with Anarchism or Anarchy, could you explain what you want to say with those?)
If you think that to fight against structures of power - like corporate oligarchy - and for power to people themselves (what Anarchy is about) is actually "sucking the ass of corporate oligarchy" I don't get your logic.
And there's truth in the saying that you have to "escape a matrix". the matrix is actually highly probable if we think we are fighting for something other but our power. The matrix is to think anarchy is chaos. Free yourself ;)
yeah. i have REAL and ADULT shit on the table in dozens of threads which anarchy is merely a means to the end to ignore.
fighting against bad power structures is one thing. doing so as infantile clueless rebels without knowledge is another. Anarchy is absolutely an ism- epic fail. Anarchy is just one more ism, and its an ism promoted by the elites secretly because its HOW they make sure NOTHING ever changes.
anarchy IS stupid, mindless, BS. It is not a solution, it is the problem.
anarchy is the enemy of organization, order, it is the enemy of the people, it is simply a mental cage which the oligarchs put in place to create whats appears to be an exit from the matrix but which actually con scams more dupes into fighting for the oligarchs. any body who carries an ism flag is fighting for divide and conquer. not truth. not organization. not order. not knowledge.
anarchism is garbage, its time to take all the garbage out.
Anarchy promoted by the elites? Do you really really think that?
The contrary is true and I have proof. Consume any kind of media and look how the world "anarchy" is used. It's used only like the world "chaos". And they don't use chaos, because they want to contaminate the word anarchy. Deliberately.
The elite, the money, the thing we are fighting, they actually make you believe that anarchy is chaos and not something meaningful.
Because they are afraid. And that because anarchy as an idea is so powerful.
DUH. anarchy is just one oubliette mind trap to prevent escape from the matrix. do i really think that? STUDY the PARADIGM evolution, and track it back to original voices and points of origin. You find that anarchy is in fact designed by the oligarchs as their first choice for a great dead end to dead end people inside of. Anarchy ruins any attempt to make real change. obviously. Its a self defeating and self destructive ideology.
the contrary is NOT true, the facts are very simple. Anarchy is a dead end, and it is an ideal method for the oligarchs to ensure that nothing useful comes out of asssorted social movements- send in the anarchists to "help" it. Its just one giant tool of the co-opting and appropriation methodology.
one more team side for mental mind game mind fuck propaganda chess.
anarchy IS chaos, and it is NOT something meaningful.
DUH.
yeah, they are afraid, and thats why they USE anarchism to herd the moron sheeple to self destructive and self sabotaging "anarchy."
anarchy as an idea is not powerful- it is exactly HOW you are all brainwashed through abdication of personal responsibility.
Agreed, although I don't really like the word anarchy precisely because so many people immediately misunderstand it, anarchy is essentially like the internet in that it has no central authority as a social media, so perhaps you would consider our group's proposal of an alternative online direct democracy of government and business at http://getsatisfaction.com/americanselect/topics/on_strategically_weighted_policies_organizational_operating_structures_tactical_investment_procedures-448eo , hit the facebook “like” button if agreed, and then join our group's 20 members committed to that plan at http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/StrategicInternationalSystems/
but don't you think it would be better to use the word and explain it to those not understanding it? I think the benefit would be immense.
Agreed, it's just in doing so that we should immediately draw comparisons to anarchy in things which the 99% immediately understand and like, such as the internet, which is the modern definition of well-defined anarchy, which isn't to say there isn't much to learn from history in that regard going backwards as well.
of course "the 99%" is a better slogan as it is immediately understood. but once you speak with people and not only wave a sign you have the chance to explain. and there are people afraid of anarchy in this forum for example ;) and on the streets in any protest. and if we continue we eventually we can make signs "anarchy != chaos" and more people will understand. I think its dammned important as it gives a perspective on what our aim might look like which is so often missing in the debates about goals.
Agreed, so how about a sign that says:
Anarchy != chaos
Anarchy = internet
Join our Online Internet Democracy
Worldwide
as an important side note, the anarchy problem so far is responsible for all the disorder, all the chaos, and if not checked will effectively doom this movement to failure.
we need organization, not chaos. we need right action, not stupid irrelevant symbolic but useless action. We need SMART not just ANGRY.
stop being a rebel without a clue. Anarchism is nothing more than a pacifier for infantile adolescents.
youre so right.
we need organization, not chaos. we need right action.
but we need OUR organisation.
Thats actually what anarchy is about. Power to general assemblies!
Anarchy is not ANGRY. Anarchy is about building something.
edit: Anarchy is actually very angry, thats right. But in the sense of Stéphane Hessel, like anger is the fist step to change. Its angry because it strives to something meaningful.
i'm sorry, but anarchy is just one more ism which is a dead end which is part of the problem.
SOCIOLOGY and GAME THEORY and SYSTEMS THEORY are the paradigms we need to invest in- NOT anarchy.
anarchy is about building something? its called anarchy because it never produces a damn thing. show me one single anarchist community. it does not exist. show me a commune. show me a barn. show me a permacultured lot. Anarchists are infatile rebels without a clue and they have never done a damn thing of consequence.
its time to grow the fuck up in a hurry, because anarchy is what is destroying the movement and why it is melting down and fragmenting.
anarchy most certainly is mere rabid anger detached from knowledge or truth.
I hope I don't seem like one always seeking the last word. I think its an important debate, thats why I comment so much here.
There is a good movie by Adam Curtis about game theory. For people interested, I can warmly recommend. It's called "The Trap: What Happened to Our Dream of Freedom" and it's in full length on youtube.
The problem about game theory is that it views humans as paranoid beings not having the ability to trust anybody and willing to do any foul play for their benefit. That sounds polemic but it actually is true.
I believe, humans can be like that, but I also strongly believe they can also be very different from that. If I couldn't believe that I would have to spend my live alone in some cave or at Wall Street.
And this thought about humans is actually what the idea of anarchy is all about, to build a community based on mutual aid.
And that it's actually possible, there are of course examples for that. Take the one above, the one of Spanish revolution. It didn't last too long because of the fascists killing so many anarchists but it was full of merriment.
I have the impression you didn't get what I want to say about Anarchy not being Chaos. Replace anarchy with chaos in your post and i'd agree to it.
i get the impression you don't get what i am telling you. anarchy is HOW the divide and conquer you and make you fight against yourselves. anarchy is disorganization. anarchy is stupid infantile nonsense. it is merely an ism. anarchism is merely one color on the divide and conquer propaganda chess game. anybody who promotes anarchy is just making sure that everything stays disorganized and thus everything falls down. There is no sense, no truth, no logic, no use for anarchy.
I do Get what you say. you want me to see that what you intend and mean by anarchy is something different than how science and political science defines it. you don't mean" anarchy" you mean" anarchy." like that makes any sense.
We have a word for a just government which is egalitarian and horizontal- DEMOCRACY. anarchy is not democracy, its ochliocracy. look that up.
You are totally missing the point, and trying to tell us we don't get it. NO. YOU don't get it. Anarchy is a stupid infantile con scam, and any moron who picks that up as a pet ism has got a parasite designed by the oligarchs to keep them disempowered and ignorant.
Ahh, i finally feel the spirit of a real discussion here. We are approaching some truth.
What kind of science defines anarchy as the rule of the blind mob?
And there is other of kind science and theory that defines it otherwise. Common examples are found in your library under "philosophy" and "humanist sciences".
Then have a look at their idea of man. And then choose what kind of human you'd like to have as a friend. Or be yourself.
And could you please give your favorite example of science depicting anarchy as doomed to fail - and not assuming anarchy to be chaos in the first place - that we can have a solid discussion about it? It could be interesting.
political science has a lot to say about anarchy as does systems and game theory. You can call it anarchy as the standard definition defines it or you can use the special definition which systemic anarchists use. A government without a government is just no organization and will always result in people somehow claiming or creating power and then some form of oligarchy, as those people seize that power. OWS is no different in this. The attempt to create an anarchistic democracy has via the door of anarchy created merely a new elite hierarchy of the people who run the fake consensus process at GA.
There is nothing interesting about this discussion, its a patent waste of everyones time.
We know anarchy is a stupid infantile disorganization con scam of a system, we can trace the evolution of the ideas back to actual oligarchs, we know why they would love to get us trapped there so that we never achieve democracy- just like all the other isms-- this shit is plainly obvious and self evident to anyone who doesn't maintain a mote in their eye.
now youre silent, coward? when theres the time for facts?