Forum Post: An open letter, and a closing letter to all.
Posted 9 years ago on Feb. 8, 2015, 10:16 a.m. EST by factsrfun
(8342)
from Phoenix, AZ
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
My time “on the forums” will be coming to an end soon as this is the only one I care for, I have little interest in reddit, the format is off to me, it has been a bit over three years. The time has reinforced the knowledge that no one ever changes their mind. I will never be convinced that not doing all we can to defeat the GOP is absolutely necessary. That’s a path I can see quite clear, get involved in politics attack anyone that supports the rich and support those that can defeat them, don’t wait for perfect act now!
I see another story coming up on MSNBC calling for Warren to run, sorry I won't be here when Hillary is not the nominee, oh well that’s just my ego talking.
I think it’s worth mentioning some that have “fallen” here in the interest of simple truth, GirlFriday, bensdad, ZenDog yes he was a flamer but he got a lot right, Middleaged that’s an old one and therising I will stop there I know there are others I have forgotten.
It is sad to see this go, but jart has given much, so for the time we did have I am very grateful.
Will you still make more youtube videos? Those were awesome.
Haven't done that in awhile, I guess that's sarcasm, I tweet a little, this was always about putting it down somewhere, so that if there are those who wish to see there will be a trail of breadcrumbs to follow. You can't not give people a chance even if you know they won't avail themselves.
frf ... I swore to myself... I would never reply to one of your posts again ... because I feel ... you never hear what I say ... because I believe that ....you already think you know what I think ...
but I will try again !!
Albiet ... while I do believe you are very smart & have a lot of knowledge ... and most of the time you are correct in most of your conclusions ....
I believe your conclusions ... are not complete ....
also.... while I also see you as one of the 99% .... and a supporter of Occupy ....
I firmly believe that you do not understand what Occupy is ....
please hear this ... you might get more productive , more successful and more complete .. :)
Occupy... represents the 99% !!!
therefore .. Occupy .. MUST be based on a Consensus Building Foundation ...
Consensus Building .... means that we ALL (99% of us) ... argue topics & issues... until we understand and have defined the topic well enough that we all 99% agree ...
until that happens ... we do not have Consensus !! ...
so... let's for the sake of argument .... say that you are correct ... in your goal of defeating the GOP ...
can you see the dilemma ?
We can NEVER get Consensus ... on such a general goal !!! ...
however.....
We could get Consensus on defeating a particular member of the GOP ... for corruption or whatever reason !!
And.... We could possibly do that ... over and over again ... until all of the GOP is replaced ....
however .. unlikely 100% ... because there are some (not many) good ones ... and the majority would want to keep them in office ....
do you understand ? ..... it's not your goal .... it's your approach ... you CAN NOT succeed that way !!!
It's like saying .... we need to get rid of all the bankers !!! ... when there are in fact ...some (not many) ... good honest bankers that do make the world a better place ....
and further .... Once you understand the logic behind Consensus Building ... you will find yourself pissed off at the DEMS as much as you are pissed off at the GOP !!! ..
peace ....
How the hell do you build consensus attacking every Dem you see?
Simple steps, simple things work, the simple fact that the GOP, all GOP work to make the rich richer, is the simple truth that would transform the world, but it is not always convenient, we will never fix this as long as reasonable people believe it is reasonable to allow the Koch brothers to write law.
The only way OWS will ever have an impact is through a focused effort we must convert millions of people into haters of the GOP and the concept that life must be made easy for the rich so that they will consent to letting people work to make them more money.
It is the unwillingness of OWS to present a focused effort that has lost it support not the other way around.
We cannot "get rid of the bankers" we don't vote on them but we can get rid of their political party and remove their protection.
You endorse a pox on both their lives which leave the 1% in power and the people powerless. i believe in seizing the power and taking action now to scare the hell out of Washington and you can't do that not voting or voting like an idiot, if OWS got into the effort full force it could have a huge impact.
You think you need to build a consensus on corruption? If you can't convince people the rich are too damn rich what are you doing here? If you can't see that all GOP policy is designed to make the rich richer and to give money more power, then you need to be reading and listening till you do understand, because if you can't see that you are blind as shit.
Why not ..." .... The only way OWS will ever have an impact is through a focused effort we must convert millions of people into haters of the Koch brothers & anyone ... who supports the Koch brothers....."
much ... much easier ... and you get better & more accurate results !!
funny... how you can say the same thing better .... w/o using the words DEM or GOP !!!!
The Koch bros are only on the ballot by way of the GOP we can in fact get rid of the GOP if we just choose to do so, I don't believe people who vote Republican should be any more willing to say so than those who belong to the KKK, when we get there things will in fact change.
that is incorrect .... there are quite a few dems who have openly admitted that they are associated w/ the koch heads ~ Smash the Duopoly!!
This will be helpful in spotting dem koch-heads:
List of members of the American Legislative Exchange
Do you have other lists?
Perhaps some voting records?
yeah.. got a ton of stuff bookmarked... but... I can't search for them right now... trying to finish code.. :) ... OccupyFAQs will automatically sort bookmarks by topic, names, popularity, ratings etc.. on the fly ... make it much easier to find stuff !
Just sayin.
Your conversation with frf would be better to list names rather than just present a general claim.
Advice you gave me recently.
yep :)
name them, and tell me what is your plan to "smash the Duopoly" and does it involve more GOP in office? Because that would be some stupid shit right there, I have a plan to smash the Doupoly, take them down one at time starting with the GOP then the ladder of power will fall, what's your plan? give everything to the GOP?,
yes
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Disease of Conceit
Since you're not duckin' tell me again why do accept the election of the GOP, but not the Dems?
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Hhmmmmmm - perhaps we do not want to give credence to your fantasies - THAT - is NOT lack of imagination - THAT - "IS" - understanding reality.
Go huddle with your other stinkle teamers in what time this forum has left - and see if you can come up with a fresh denial of reality - the current program of yours is very old and stale and quite tattered.
Perchance you might - rather than sticking to your flights of fancy - instead - for once in your bleeding life on this forum - try to address reality.
SO
Again
Who denies health care coverage to the people of their states.
Who has been trying to block (unsuccessfully) the ACA from the time it was 1st brought up and has been trying to get it repealed ever since it got passed?
Who is trying to end the USPS?
Who voted 100% for the keystone pipeline approval?
Who is trying to privatize to wall street Social Security?
Who wants to give more tax breaks to the wealthy?
Who stands in the way of equal pay for women?
Who invited nutters yahoo to speak to both houses of congress?
Who is standing in the way of a minimum wage increase?
Who is doing their best to end the EPA?
Try to answer instead of dodging again (eternally).
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explosion are easy to record
306
Alright mayda, since you've jumped on the 'duopoly' bandwagon with the conservative poser posse, I'll give you the same opportunity to explain what they haven't.
What do you hope to accomplish by refusing to acknowledge the actual differences between the major political parties?
What do you hope to accomplish by encouraging others not to vote for lesser evil?
What part of the system do you hope to change by allowing conservatives to increase their majority in Congress and secure the Presidency in 2016?
Have you posted your 'duopoly' views ANYWHERE popular with conservatives?
Now for the kicker.
Name your 'non-duopoly' candidate for President in 2016.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/i-need-more-space-for-evidence-to-post-in-return-f/
http://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/316147-gop-candidates-rake-in-oil-and-gas-money
quote >>>."...What do you hope to accomplish by encouraging others not to vote for lesser evil?..."
Because that IS NOT what Occupy is about ... Occupy CAN NOT succeed by picking a side !!!
But Occupy can accomplish the same (and more) ... by using a different approach ....
SMC ... while I see you as one of the 99% .... and a supporter of Occupy ....
I firmly believe that you do not understand what Occupy is ....
please hear this ... you might get more productive , more successful and more helpful .. :)
Occupy... represents the 99% !!!
therefore .. Occupy .. MUST be based on a Consensus Building Foundation ...
Consensus Building .... means that we ALL (99% of us) ... argue topics & issues... until we understand and have defined the topic well enough that we all 99% agree ...
until that happens ... we do not have Consensus !! ...
so... let's for the sake of argument .... say that you are correct ... that we should move to support the LESSER EVIL associated by a PARTY of people ...
can you see the dilemma ?
We can NEVER get Consensus ... on such a general goal of attacking a whole PARTY !!! ...
however.....
We could get Consensus on defeating a particular member of a PARTY ... for corruption or whatever reason !!
And.... We could possibly do that ... over and over again ... until 100% of the PARTY is replaced ....
however .. unlikely 100% ... because there are some (not many) good ones from any party ... and the majority would want to keep them in office ....
do you understand ? ..... it's not the goal .... it's the approach ... we CAN NOT succeed by alienating a GROUP !!! ...
OCCUPY cannot and will not ....ever endorse an existing political Party .... OCCUPY ... could create a new Party ... given Consensus ... but if Occupy ever endorsed one evil party to conquer another evil party ... Occupy would cease being the 99% ...
peace ....
I'm all for criticizing and pressuring politicians regardless of party. But I'm also for doing or research, checking the polls for realistic odds, stepping into that voting booth with a barf bucket handy and MAKING A CHOICE. Not only as a gesture but as an attempt to prevent the greater evil from taking office.
Otherwise, the choice will be made for us.
Every singe time.
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When it was formed, it was primarily about Wall Street corruption and the greed of the 1%. My problem with OWS and society in general has always been that so many of it's supporters have made excuses for this corporation, that CEO, this celebrity, or that politician. As if their crooked business practices and relentless concentrations of wealth were irrelevant. It was a problem in 2011. It's a problem now.
But the greatest fault of OWS, this site in particular now is that it's founders have sold out the cause they once stood for. They have allowed and I strongly suspect contributed heavily to it's transformation into a forum riddled with 'anti-democrat' and 'don't vote' messages which have been marked up consistently day after day for months on end.
Because the transformation took place in the election year of 2014, one which resulted in a conservative sweep as 2/3 of potential voters opted out, I see that transformation as calculated and politically motivated. In fact, several of the IDs responsible for it were created in the election year of 2014.
Again, for the reord, I am not a Democrat. I'm an unaffiliated free thinker. However, I do see Democrats as the lesser evil on several major issues including that which is the most important to me by far.
The Greater Depression will come regardless. But it will come sooner and more severe resulting in greater hardship, misery and death with more fiscal conservatives in power.
I will do whatever I can to help defeat them. Even if that means holding my nose while voting for Democrats.
My position has not changed. It was developed long before this site was formed.
"The income gap between the rich and the rest of the population has become so wide and is growing so fast that it may eventually threaten the stability of Democratic capitalism itself." -Allen Greenspan testifying before Congress in the spring of '05'.
That has proven to be about as prophetic a statement ever made by any economist.
I'll add this:
It will be our downfall.
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One more time shitheel.
If the dems are the same as the reps.
Why is there still a post office?
Why hasn't Social Security been privatized?
Why is there even an FDA?
Why is there even an EPA?
Why did it take a change in the majority of both houses to get approval for keystone after six years of denial - why was there six years of denial?
Why is there any resistance to fossil fuel?
If as you say that the reps and the dems are the same = totaly owned by the 1%. Why is there any resistance at all to what the 1% want?
So Again:
Te qui habitas in mendaciis
Tu prouisor de figmentis
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Te qui habitas in mendaciis
Tu prouisor de figmentis
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Tu rem negator
Te qui habitas in mendaciis
Tu prouisor de figmentis
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If as you say that the reps and the dems are the same = totaly owned by the 1%. Why is there any resistance at all to what the 1% want?
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"The Careless, Astonishing Cruelty of Barack Obama’s Government" by George Monbiot
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/feb/10/racist-cruelty-barack-obamas-government-somalia-humanitarian-crisis
"Let me introduce you to the world’s most powerful terrorist recruiting sergeant: a US federal agency called the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency. Its decision to cause a humanitarian catastrophe in one of the poorest, most troubled places on Earth could resonate around the world for decades.
Last Friday, after the OCC had sent it a cease-and-desist order, the last bank in the United States still processing money transfers to Somalia closed its service. The agency, which reports to the US treasury, reasoned that some of this money might find its way into the hands of the Somali terrorist group al-Shabaab. It’s true that some of it might, just as some resources in any nation will find their way into the hands of criminals (ask HSBC). So why don’t we shut down the phone networks to hamper terrorism? Why don’t we ban agriculture in case fertiliser is used to make explosives? Why don’t we stop all the clocks to prevent armed gangs from planning their next atrocity?"
Spreading pain and suffering around the world to the "have not" nations seems to be a common thing among the "have" nations. Just like at home, we allow 6 members of the Walton family to own as much wealth as the bottom 41% of Americans. All of this inequality and injustice is related and to stop it we're going to have to get together, and by the sheer power of our numbers, overcome it.
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I am not pushing for the election of dems - I "AM" however pushing for the removal of the reps that are in office in state and federal government. You choose to call that campaigning for dems. Whomever is available to replace those being removed from office is what we have to work with - so it would be my hope that alternative candidates would be forwarded.
Though until today - (when you said that you would vote dem before voting repub) - you have equated the dems and the reps as being exactly the same - which is false.
Making change - positive change - in freeing government from the capture of the 1% - through using direct democracy - to identify the evil and remove it from office - again through direct democracy - that means getting involved and making intelligent use of our right to vote.
I can not help it that you are so dense (seemingly).
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Stop trying to throw Hitlary at me you disingenuous piece of crap - you already know that I want nothing to do with that witch.
Nice to see that you finally made a statement (however grudgingly) where you would vote dem before you would vote rep - if there were no other choice - finally shows that you are not totally insane.
I notice that the list of Democrat duopolists that you won't vote for is getting longer, but still you try to subvert this struggle into a Vote For A Duopol-ist Campaign
I know that you know this, but even so JFYI again, you could attend numerous Occupy events without hearing (or inferring) the words, 'Voting, Democrat or Republican,' ONCE. For you the advocating of protests, or any form of resistance is a placating one. You are here to turn this movement into a duopolist movement.
I do realize though for a hack like yourself who is trying to drag this struggle into the duopoly, that it is imperative for you to keep us on a traditional corrupt, colluding candidate/party focus.
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If you want to legitimize the duopoly and divert us onto a futile path, that's your prerogative. There are enough more enlightened people who know better, and that number is growing stronger, so you are not needed.
Will you be supporting Senator Dianne Feinstein's (DEMOCRAT, CA) candidacy, while her husband rakes in the big bucks from selling post offices off? ;-)
I suppose you support the following as your choices:
Walker or Palin or Mittens or Ryan or Paul or Shrub or Scott or Christie
Query; If the repubs are exactly like the dems. Why does one support the peoples right to vote and the other try to remove the people from being able to vote?
Is everyone in Coon Rapids as clueless as you, as to what Occupy is about ..OR are you an aberration there too??.....lol
This fits you as well as it fits Shits666:
Tu rem negator
Te qui habitas in mendaciis
Tu prouisor de figmentis
Thanks DK. I'm honored that you, a duopo-list finds me as disdainful as shadz.... You're the best. lol
Yep you deserve each-other - you are right there as some of the forums worst disinformationists - right along with thrashingmasks and of course your other stinkle teamers - turbowanker, flippant & serfingtheusa. Yeah you make for quite an ugly crew of opt outer 1% supporters.
You even have your own motto:
qui habitant in mendaciis
casis exactionem facies sub fictionibus
in rerum priva
And so says, the Occupy Forum's resident, neocon duopol-ist.
BTW, by using deductive reasoning, can I deduce, that in your mind that you think that you, StillModestCapitalist and factsrfun are the real deal?
Yes, I think that I definitely will miss your kooky logic most
Obviously - and perpetually - you do not know What The Fuck You Are Talking About.
Here get an edge-um-ahhhh-K-shun.
Neoconservatism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoconservatism Cached Neoconservatism is a political movement born in the United States during the 1960s. Many of its adherents rose to political fame during the Republican
Or by chance did I misunderstand - and you were talking about yourself?
If that's the definition that more closely resembles your duopoly-like beliefs, go for it. I believe the one in the Urban Dictionary fits you more closely, since you seem to love the Zionists so much.
I'd tell ya to blow it out your ass - but - that would be redundant.
I won't miss you and your insanity at all.
Oh yes, I'm sure that you will not miss me. Imagine that, having carte blanche to run roughshod over the forum again...spouting your crap, supporting vile posters, and banning people who disagree with your partisan bullshit.
Hey!!!!!!!!!!!
Dipshit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
When the forum site shuts down.
Just who exactly am I supposed to ride roughshod all over?
You really need to think before you spew.
The major difference between most people here and you, is that you are a hack who wants us to join a rotten political system, and in the process, defang Occupy, and the groups that they have coalesced with.
~#congress
are about a minute apart
~#USA ?
Ya see? You the conservative - projecting. Neocon fits you. Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah - I know - you are gonna say that you support OWS - but that's the thing - YOU don't. If you were for real ( an OWS supporter) You would be howling for the blood of the republicons for their 100% servitude to the 1%. But all you can do is cry duopoly - when you know as well as I that there is a world of difference between the reps and the dems that are in office.
Your program has always been to stop people from taking any kind of action = direct democracy.
You cry don't vote don't vote they are both the same.
Yet you forward nothing that the people should do (other than protest).
Protest with no following action (direct democracy action) - is what?
EMPTY complaining.
And then you try to throw zionist at me.
Why?
Because I condemn terrorism?
Really?
Because you can not show where I have ever been OK with Israeli war crimes.
So GFYS purveyor of disinformation.
Currently there are only two that I would consider for president - Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders.
You have still not proven factually that the dems in office are exactly the same as the reps in office. On the other hand I and others have shown specific examples of being polar opposites = reps being 100% in servitude to the 1% and dems actually forwarding issues in support of the people.
You claim that there is no difference between the two ( which works just fine to support your opt out program) - but you fail to show the reality of that claim.
You also fail perpetually to present options to your so called duopoly - you present no alternatives - you present no-one to replace those who are in office. You forward no plan of ACTION for the people to embark upon. You just cry duopoly and don't vote.
So you want us to support the parties and their candidates who have colluded with the oligarchs who got us here?? That sounds kinda like a viewpoint from someone who is older and out of touch.
That's not what I said - it never was what I said - but that's the spin you have been trying to sell - ever since you dropped your mask - remember? - couple weeks after you got here (the forum) you stopped glad-handing everyone because you figured that you had established yourself - then you started attacking everyone you had been so enamored of prior to that point - telling everyone they all had it wrong and that they needed to follow you. You started stalking Justine at events and harassing her by e-mail - this was when you started to get booted off of the site on a regular basis.
You duplicitous ASSHOLE.
earliest I remember ,we smuggled weapons to Iran to fight IRAQ back in the 80s
but the weapons supply line has probably already been moving
At best it is arrogant ignorance - at worst it is active support of the 1% takeover of government.
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I see there is a "removed" comment would you do that "not ducking" thing and actually explain why you are more accepting of the GOP than the Dems?
Why do accept the GOP and all they do so willingly?
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You are a stinking Green Party political hack that don't give a damn about anything but your party like all political hacks.
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From your "substantive reply", "Voting Democrap is like wiping your ass factsy !!!"
No where in this reply do you explain why you leave your ass shity for others to have to smell,. I have often referred yo you as a sinking Green, did you not know why?? Go wipe your ass, shithead!
You accept, encourage and LOVE the GOP!
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You have been banned multiple times because it is well know throughout the site that you are simply an agent of the Republican Party, so insults from you is like praise from Heaven.
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Nine dems out of 46 vote for and 36 vote against and one no vote
fifty three out of 54 reps vote for and 1 no vote = 0 votes against
This has already been talked about - you choose to ignore that fact. I already said that there were some dems who voted for keystone - nine blue dogs.
While except for Rubio (no vote) - all of the reps voted for keystone.
So much for your cry of there being no difference between the two - dems & reps.
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you help elect the GOP where 100% voted for it, so you support the party that is 100% evil over the 20% evil because you want to be King?
you are such a f'cking stupid shit.
you choose to let the 1% and the GOP win because you are not King? because you cannot get 100% things your way, well guess what it is the 100% evil and uniformity of the GOP which I reject, you want the Dems to be as locked stepped as your favorite party the GOP, well the GOP is perfect in their evil the Dems are just human, not perfect.
bottom line Shadz you don't think it matters if we beat the GOP or not, because you are stupid as shit
I never said that nine blue dogs were irrelevant - that would be you putting words in my mouth. And your presenting as you state 20% or nine blue dogs as being the same as 100% of the reps - is extremely disingenuous.
Here - I'll help you to cut through the crap (yours) - http://billmoyers.com/2015/02/10/bernie-sanders-keeping-us-becoming-oligarchy-struggle-must-win/
Sed non licet disputare,
tu masturbari
Fac is alicubi alius
It is a simple truth that you have been banned multiple times.
You acknowledge your efforts help to elect the GOP.
OWS is at it's core about forcing those like yourself to face the truth so no, I won't stop telling the world what a GOP loving ego whore you are!
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Your strategy of constant attacks on Dems has resulted in the lowest voter turnout and largest GOP majority in decades. That is the truth. It is you who spout out lies in an attempt to justify what we all know is true, you help the GOP win.
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What lie have I told? have you not been banned repeatedly? Do you not relentlessly attack the GOP's greatest enemy? Does your efforts not keep the 1% securely in power as it has done at least since 2000 and going back even farther if you look?
I understand your disdain for truth given the evil that you do but casting anger in my direction, does nothing to change the truth of all you do is to help the GOP WIN!