Forum Post: an idea- we build on all this amazing coopertive activity
Posted 13 years ago on Oct. 7, 2011, 1:28 a.m. EST by fromecuadorwithlove
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This content is user submitted and not an official statement
think of all the talent and passion coalescing right now in cities around america and the spirit of cooperation that is happening with the efforts of the protesters to provide a safe public space, food, organize showers, etc etc. whatever demands the people ultimately organize around, one strategy in order to build leverage for our demands is to use our own skills and abilities to provide for ourselves and our brother and sisters. We can boycott almost everything if necessary. the boycott was absolutely essential to the success of the civil rights movement. we must deny corporate america access to our money. And then we must deny corporate america access to our labor. GENERAL STRIKE!!!!
I like the idea of a general strike but what are we demanding? Striking without a demand is just obstruction. We don't need to pause the function of our current system we need to pull the plug on it. If we demand for a Fossil Fuel Freeze most, if not all, of the items on the "OWS Proposed List of Demands" can be remedied. Just an idea...
I agree. striking is only strategic when you have a specific set of demands. I suggest it more in spirit of remembering how much power we have when we decide collectively that we have the right not to work. A veteran organizer told me once that when it comes to those who love acquiring money, the only way you win is to convince them that it's a hell of alot cheaper to deal with you than to fight you. Ultimately people will coalesce around a set demands. where then do we gain leverage? I hope it's through targeted boycots, ongoing non-violent direct action that continues to give us the moral high ground and also the great expense that comes when we deny our labor and create more cooperative structures. The steelworkers are starting to do some interesting things with worker owned coopertives. It's nice to be a part of the conversation. I hope to come home soon and be apart of the movement,
But where does goldman get its business? While this movement has been very savvy to target the financial sector as the major perpetrators of crimes against the people, you have to look at all the potential points of pressure that can be applied. what are these companies lifelines and where does our money and our labor play a role?
same thing with boycotting. goldman sachs wasn't gettting our business anyhow.
strike has been brought up several times and we don't think its really a useful strategy right now.
to get serious requires a few things they don't have. like chat admins who aren't ego serving propaganda tools, a wiki, 1001 sub forums, an actual game plan, a straight up political platform... you know.. basic organizational things sane people do BEFORE protesting.. like figure out a diplomacy and logic centered metaprocess to give their chatadmins so that they don't really just drive out even more people than the trolls. Adminatrolla. trollaAdmin. Whats the difference to somebody whos got the truth facing a propaganda tool abusing admin powers to push their agenda? how can you prevent such a thing? Metaprocess. did i mention metaprocess? and science diplomacy science psychology science sociology and all those textbooks to read B4 protesting?
you can't have capitalism without a free(SLAVE) market. but you can have a free market without capitalism. And thats strangely the only way it CAN work.
Marketing 101 was fascinating. I admit thats a lot less than a bachelors but its sure more than enough to see whats really going on given the other things I know. Capitalism is not the problem since it does not exist. corporate oligarchy is the problem. capitalism has never been tried. I am a democracy guy. in order for real democracy to function a free market system is required. Thats not capitalism. thats a free market system. there is a subtle difference there which most people would miss. I will again repeat. Neither capitalism nor marxism nor communism nor socialism has ever existed. All of those governments were oligarchy pretending to be something as a con scam. Telling that simple truth gets one banned out of the Chat by either a capitalist or a socialist whos pissed you just said their pet ideology isn't real. It isn't. anybody who thinks that it is is accidentally playing for team corporate oligarchy as a tool. the ONLY system worth talking about is DEMOCRACY. how democracy HANDLES a FREE MARKET system is dynamic and interesting and NOT capitalism.
o. yes. no. yes. what? making change is not reliant on changing the money system one tenth as much as it is on changing the informational ecology. Going to a gold standard as an idea is a proof of ignorance, not a solution. Really the end game is we evolve out of money. To do that we evolve first new currencies and new economic strategies. this leads to economic singularity in about 50 years. If everyone is a millionaire how much you get depends on exactly the material valuation of that money. Which is to say that by the time money becomes obsolete everyone will live like the current millionaire. Tangible items to other tangible items? the real economy is about ideas, change the ideas and everything changes. the problem with the tangible economy is it does not change; its a static reality. you can't make a meaningful gold standard with only enough gold to represent on millionth of the economy. You can make a purely imaginal money system work; but it has to be subject to moral and ethical laws. This is about pinning down those moral and ethical laws and implementing them in new currencies; not trying to imagine a control freak impossible non solution because of the simplicity with which you go about thinking over the problem.
once again. there has never been a socialist or capitalist economy. in all instances such nations were oligarchies. using a mask and a con scam and telling their dupes and pwns that they were something other than oligarchy. the big hump to get over is that the USA oligarchy and the Soviet oligarchy are in on this lie against the rest of us TOGETHER. Neither of them was ever anything other than an oligarchy. both claimed some other system in order to have US fight over the ideals of THAT system while they secretly shafted us all playing a completely different game.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/stop-playing-the-devils-games/