Forum Post: Allow Me to Introduce Myself...
Posted 12 years ago on Nov. 4, 2011, 3:51 p.m. EST by foundersten
(23)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
I am a United States Soldier. I am a patriot. I am a family man with a mortgage. I suppose I am among the so-called 99%, but I do not identify myself with my annual income or net worth. Neither of them mean anything when it comes to the health of this nation.
I am me and I believe in us.
I don't want handouts, entitlements, or special favors. I own my debt through a conscious arrangement with my creditors and I expect to honor that commitment or suffer the economic consequences of failing to meet it. My creditors have made poor choices, but that in no way absolves me of my own poor choices or the responsibility to work through even bad luck.
What I demand is the freedom to choose my own destiny with the highest amount of the resources I have earned. I demand the ability to work and be paid what my labor is worth. I strive for the satisfaction of standing on my own two feet, the pride of supporting my family and the peace of knowing my children's future is secure. I demand a constitutionally limited government which will foster the best possible environment for me to achieve my goals. I DO NOT WANT MY GOALS HANDED TO ME FOR THEN THEY BECOME THE PROPERTY OF A MASTER I THOROUGHLY REJECT!
I have been opposed to the Occupy Wall Street movement for its lack of focus and dangerous flirting with socialist and even communist agendas. However, I took the time today to read the posts by the followers of this movement and I see a very different face from the OWS website. I've even had some good discussions with folks and I have yet to have someone be less than civil with me. What I have learned is that intentionally or not, OWS has failed you through it's supposed lack of leadership.
I see people who are rightfully frustrated and angry at a system that has gotten out of control, assumed a life of its own, and is now ignoring the only government that was supposed to exist: We The People!!!
You can't take back your government from business! How can they give up something they don't have??? Business has simply figured out how to manipulate the failures we have sent to Washington to represent us. That's not to say we can't be angry at business for its own lack of patriotism, but that's a later fight. The fight right now must be with the scoundrels in Washington who have whored themselves to business and forgotten the servitude of their positions to the nation!
I've seen posts about "politicians, business, and people in power" as if to say that the people with power are some mysterious force of puppet masters. Nothing could be more hopeless! WE have the power! The Constitution is not dead or flawed. It is a tool that has been mishandled, abused, dropped, and even forgotten but it is not dead! It is very much powerful and that power is not for anyone or anything but WE THE PEOPLE! Don't let anyone convince you otherwise.
Let's stand up from our sorrows renewed with the power of the Constitution and retake our government! I promise you once that happens business will be rudely reminded who the masters truly are when their precious stimulus money and bailout cash is stripped from their clenched fists and they realize that they are nothing without US!
Amen
First of all, if you really are a US soldier, then you have probably been sent into combat with aging equipment and inadequate supplies. That is a failure of our Capitalist system.
If you are truly against handouts and entitlements, then why didn't you mention anything about multi-hundred-billion dollar subsidies and tax breaks for Fortune 500 companies and millionaires?
If the millionaires and their corporations are not responsible, then why did our leaders sell out to them? Why not sell out Joe's Hardware? Why no subsidy for Mom and P's Flower Shop?
If you really feel that you have nobody to blame but yourself for any sort of hardship, then why are you defending any group or any entity? Why are you upset with OWS? If all financial hardship is the fault and/or responsibility of the victim, than what do you or anyone else have to fear from OWS?
Just a few more questions: How did we end up with the highest concentration of wealth in world history? Is there any downside at all? Have you ever played a game of Monopoly? Did you know that it was based on actual principles of economics?
The ugly truth. America's wealth is STILL being concentrated. When the rich get too rich, the poor get poorer. These latest figures prove it. AGAIN.
According to the Social Security Administration, 50 percent of U.S. workers made less than $26,364 in 2010. In addition, those making less than $200,000, or 99 percent of Americans (actually, more like 98%), saw their earnings fall by $4.5 billion collectively.
The sobering numbers were a far cry from what was going on for the richest one percent of Americans.
The incomes of the top one percent of the wage scale in the U.S. rose in 2010; and their collective wage earnings jumped by $120 billion. In addition, those earning at least $1 million a year in wages, which is roughly 93,000 Americans, reported payroll income jumped 22 percent from 2009.
Overall, the economy has shed 5.2 million jobs since the start of the Great Recession in 2007. It’s the worst economic downturn since the Great Depression in the 1930’s.
Another word about the first Great Depression. It really was a perfect storm. Caused almost entirely by greed. First, there was unprecedented economic growth. There was a massive building spree. There was a growing sense of optimism and materialism. There was a growing obsession for celebrities. The American people became spoiled, foolish, naive, brainwashed, and love-sick. They were bombarded with ads for one product or service after another. Encouraged to spend all of their money as if it were going out of style. Obscene profits were hoarded at the top. In 1928, the rich were already way ahead. Still, they were given huge tax breaks. All of this represented a MASSIVE transfer of wealth from poor to rich. Executives, entrepreneurs, developers, celebrities, and share holders. By 1929, America's wealthiest 1 percent had accumulated around 40% of all United States wealth. The upper class held around 30%. The middle and lower classes were left to share the rest. When the majority finally ran low on money to spend, profits declined and the stock market crashed.
Of course, the rich threw a fit and started cutting jobs. They would stop at nothing to maintain their disgusting profit margins and ill-gotten obscene levels of wealth as long as possible. The small business owners did what they felt necessary to survive. They cut more jobs. The losses were felt primarily by the little guy. This created a domino effect. The middle class shrunk drastically and the lower class expanded. With less wealth in reserve and active circulation, banks failed by the hundreds. More jobs were cut. Unemployment reached 25% in 1933. The worst year of the Great Depression. Those who were employed had to settle for much lower wages. Millions went cold and hungry. The recovery involved a massive infusion of new currency, a World War, and higher taxes on the rich. With so many men in the service, so many women on the production line, and those higher taxes to help pay for it, the lions share of United States wealth was gradually transfered back to the middle class. This redistribution of wealth continued until the mid seventies. This was the recovery. A massive redistribution of wealth. Then it began to concentrate all over again. Here we are 35 years later. The richest one percent now own 40 percent of all US wealth. This is true even after taxes, welfare, financial aid, and charity. It is the underlying cause. No redistribution. No recovery.
The government won't step in and do what's necessary. Not this time. It's up to us. Support small business more and big business less. Support the little guy more and the big guy less. It's tricky but not impossible. No redistribution. No recovery.
Those of you who agree on these major issues are welcome to summarize this post, copy it, link to it, save it, show a friend, or spread the word in any fashion. Most major cities have daily call-in talk radio shows. You can reach thousands of people at once. They should know the ugly truth. Be sure to quote the figures which prove that America's wealth is still being concentrated. I don't care who takes the credit. We are up against a tiny but very powerful minority who have more influence on the masses than any other group in history. They have the means to reach millions at once with outrageous political and commercial propaganda. Those of us who speak the ugly truth must work incredibly hard just to be heard.
The most profitable industries in the world (energy, healthcare, finance) have been given billions in government handouts and tax breaks. Meanwhile, they keep raising charges causing hardship for millions. With all those massive handouts, tax breaks, and obscene charges, profits rise to record high levels. Millions in bonuses are paid to the executives. With record high profits, record high dividends are paid. 40% of all dividends in the United States are paid to the richest one percent. All of this causes a gradual concentration of wealth and income. This results in a net loss for the lower majority who find it more and more difficult to cover the record high cost of living, which again, is directly proportional to record high profits for the rich. As more and more people struggle to make ends meet, more and more financial aid becomes necessary. Most of which goes right back to the health care industry through Medicare, Medicaid, and a very expensive prescription drug plan. This increases government spending. This has been happening for 30 years now. During the same time, tax rates have been lowered drastically for the richest one percent. Especially those who profit from investments. These people pay only 15 percent on capital gains income. As even more wealth concentrates, the lower majority find it more difficult to sustain there share of the consumer driven economy. Demand drops as more and more people go broke. Layoffs results. Unemployment rises. This results in less revenue and more government debt.
Massive subsidies and tax breaks for Wall Street, massive tax breaks for the super rich, heavy concentration of wealth, record high charges along with record high profits and record high cost of living, more hardship for the lower majority, more government spending in the form of financial aid to compensate, more concentration of wealth, less demand, layoffs and unemployment. All of this results in slower economy and less tax revenue. At the same time more and more financial aid becomes necessary. It's a horrible downward cycle which gradually pushes the national debt higher and higher. The other big factors are the wars in the Middle East.
This post is not intended to excuse those who sit on the couch collecting welfare, make no attempt to find work, or squease out kids they can't provide for.
Here is a list of the top ten companies that not only paid little or no taxes but got huge corporate welfare from we the people.
1) Exxon Mobil made $19 billion in profits in 2009. Exxon not only paid no federal income taxes, it actually received a $156 million rebate from the IRS, according to its SEC filings. Note: This claim was made by Forbes.com in April of '10'. Shortly after, they published a followup article which included a rebuttal by Exxon Mobil. Forbes.com did acknowledge a mistake based on incorrect line items filed by Exxon Mobil. http://www.forbes.com/sites/energysource/2010/04/07/exxon-says-it-does-pay-u-s-income-taxes
2) Bank of America received a $1.9 billion tax refund from the IRS last year, although it made $4.4 billion in profits and received a bailout from the Federal Reserve and the Treasury Department of nearly $1 trillion.
3) Over the past five years, while General Electric made $26 billion in profits in the United States, it received a $4.1 billion refund from the IRS.
4) Chevron received a $19 million refund from the IRS last year after it made $10 billion in profits in 2009.
5) Boeing, which received a $30 billion contract from the Pentagon to build 179 airborne tankers, got a $124 million refund from the IRS last year.
6) Valero Energy, the 25th largest company in America with $68 billion in sales last year received a $157 million tax refund check from the IRS and, over the past three years, it received a $134 million tax break from the oil and gas manufacturing tax deduction.
7) Goldman Sachs in 2008 only paid 1.1 percent of its income in taxes even though it earned a profit of $2.3 billion and received an almost $800 billion from the Federal Reserve and U.S. Treasury Department.
8) Citigroup last year made more than $4 billion in profits but paid no federal income taxes. It received a $2.5 trillion bailout from the Federal Reserve and U.S. Treasury.
9) ConocoPhillips, the fifth largest oil company in the United States, made $16 billion in profits from 2007 through 2009, but received $451 million in tax breaks through the oil and gas manufacturing deduction.
10) Over the past five years, Carnival Cruise Lines made more than $11 billion in profits, but its federal income tax rate during those years was just 1.1 percent.
So what do you think soldier? Have I made any valid points? Or am I just a communist?
Keep going, MC! I have no idea how you figured that I would attempt to counter you or think you are a communist. My guess is you got offended that I am suspicious of who it is that is behind OWS. Why aren't YOU???
AGAIN, the root problem is government handouts of ALL KINDS that have enabled businesses to inflate their profits at the expense of wages and benefits. Have you taken a breath yet to hear what I'm saying?
I was set off a little by your post but you're nowhere near as die-hard as I was expecting. You're a good and civil debater.
I actually agree very much with your second paragraph. In fact, it's on the same page as my primary concern. I wonder where we would be now if there had been no welfare of any kind except for the sick, disabled, elderly, ect. Probably better off.
"There was a growing obsession for celebrities. The American people became spoiled, foolish, naive, brainwashed, and love-sick. They were bombarded with ads for one product or service after another. Encouraged to spend all of their money as if it were going out of style."
Once again you proved my point. Business is not the master; we are. We must accept the consequences of our decisions or forever be enslaved to an illusion of powerlessness.
"It's up to us. Support small business more and big business less. Support the little guy more and the big guy less. It's tricky but not impossible. No redistribution. No recovery."
I'm trying really hard to figure out where we disagree.
I have seen us mobilized unprepared. That is not a failing of capitalism that's a failure to prepare for war and prioritize resources. Both of those are government responsibilities.
OK, I forgot to mention tax breaks and subsidies. None for any business large or small. It's not government's job to meddle with a business' ability to compete.
You made my point for me: our representatives sold out. How is the stupidity of our representatives the fault of business? A simple "no" would have done the job.
OWS hasn't offered any solution or goal, yet is in fact being led despite its leaderless claim. Everyone should be wary of that.
I am not ashamed of our nation's wealth so I have no need to explain how we got it. I am not concerned at the moment with what other nations think of us.
Yes, I know Monopoly is actually a satire on capitalism. When did I advocate pure capitalism? Capitalism is a philosophy just like every other system. It is not perfect. It must be combined with a free market and minimal government oversight.
Let me say this right away. You and I disagree on some colossal issues. There is some common ground but the issues we won't agree on are profound. Still, I want you to know that I'm not one of these America haters. And I have truckloads of respect for soldiers, cops, firefighters, ect. I can see that you're civil and I'll try to be civil as well.
The recent war efforts have been underfunded from day one. That is in part, a failure of our sold out capitalist system. Nearly every government expense from couch potato welfare to corporate welfare to legitimate need is tied in some way to obscene profits and paychecks. Primarily in healthcare, energy, and finance.
I'm glad we can agree on those tax breaks and subsidies.
Our leaders didn't just sell out on their own. They have been lobbied relentlessly for at least 30 years.
OWS is primarily a grass roots effort involving thousands of individuals. We're not all on the same page and we never will be. Everyone knows what my primary concern is. I've made it very clear. I don't have a leader but I can relate to about 1/2 of OWS concerns.
I'm here primarily to influence the masses. I have zero faith in our leaders.
The worlds wealth isn't just concentrated in the US. The wealth within our nation is horribly concentrated. The same goes for Europe, Japan, Australia, Mexico, Canada, and most other nations. The wealth is more concentrated than ever before. It's gone too far.
We don't necessarily need more or less government oversight. We need legitimate oversight for the good of our nation as a whole. We'll never have it. Never again.
I'm working on a project but I will respond to your other entries a little later. I did take a look an there is more common ground.
I do firmly believe that our representatives failed which was only a weakness that business exploited. Unpatriotic of business? Yes, but patriotism is not the primary purpose of business- profits are. We will have plenty of opportunity to hold specific businesses fully accountable for their shallowness later. We must hold accountable our representatives now to shut off the flow of public dollars to corporate pockets before we can expect to have any meaningful influence on business.
All of the countries you listed are wealthy due to their advantageous shifts into the industrial and technological revolutions- much of which had to do with associations with the United States. I definitely am not concerned with redistributing that wealth across the globe. If I ever would be, it would have to be AFTER we fix our $15T deficit.
I agree with legitimate government oversight as outlined in the constitution (very limited federally). I suspect this is where you and I diverge significantly especially since you have lost faith in the government.
I refuse to lose faith so long as we still have the Constitution to govern by. If we lose that, then we lose the country and become something very different. Socialism has failed and communism has failed, so someone would have a VERY difficult time explaining another option other than what we've got.
I hope you elaborate on your "primary concern" and what you see as a solution if just for my benefit.
We'll have to disagree on which came first. Weakness or exploitation. We'll also have to disagree on wealth redistribution. I believe a partial redistribution is vital. My reasons are buried in those long entries up there. I don't want communism or socialism. I want modest capitalism. A relatively free market with a cap on the high end. Of course, if the masses were anywhere near as savvy as the rich, the wealth never would have become so concentrated. Our debt never would have become so high. I guess we'll disagree on that too. The constitution is an amazing document but it's outdated. Needs a few more amendments.
The constitution is never outdated. If your project is an effort to lead some manner of political effort I caution you from ever stating that. You will turn away may people and I don't think you mean it or you wouldn't have mentioned amendments.
The constitution was amended 17 times. The last time was 20 years ago.
Which is the beauty of it and why it will never be outdated. It can always be revised for the needs of the time so long as there is a collective will to to do it.
Good point.
I would be willing to explore the possibility of a choice for the wealthy: higher tax rates or a break on those tax rates with either investment in new enterprise or non-profit donations/ventures. I do not like the idea at all of simple redistribution. It discourages success and puts politicians in an inappropriately powerful position by becoming the masters of a person's legitimate earnings. This is why taxation has always been a hot topic for the United States.
As for the matter of exploitation, such a thing is human nature. Logically, it existed before weakness since it is a basic function of survival. Government is supposed to be some step up from that. It is supposed to be rational, objective, and stable. When a person accepts the responsibility of being a representative his job is to not just resist, but reject the influence of exploitation. It's a very simple proposition. The pressure is certainly high and who could say that business is necessarily wrong for trying to exert that kind of influence? Business is the very embodiment of Darwinian survival. The representative is supposed to be the buffer. Hence, government weakness to exploitation is definitely a failure of representation- not business.
I just won't excuse the Earth shattering greed. In fact, I see human nature and corruption a bit differently.
Our leaders weren't born sold out. Wall Street executives weren't born evil. They were born human. With a natural instinct to gather and store for survival. A natural instinct to care for family and community.
When modern society was formed, we began to sell out our natural instincts. Survival turned into survival with a little more elbow room. Then survival with a little more elbow room and a nice view. ThenHere is a list of the top ten companies that not only paid no taxes but got huge corporate welfare from we the people.
Fast forward a few thousand years. With the industrial revolution came mechanized transportation, air conditioning, and television.
We had become somewhat spoiled. Somewhat motivated. Still relatively down to Earth. Still modest enough to appreciate one another, care for one another, and work towards a common goal.
Along the way, the potential for increased personal wealth became more and more intoxicating. Now, just about everyone wants to be rich. They want it so badly, they are willing to sell out basic morality to attain it. They WILL sell out basic morality if given the opportunity.
How can I be so sure? That's easy. Human nature plus years of corrupt influence plus opportunity.
Mother Nature did not plan for modern society. She did not plan on such corrupt influence. She never intended for any of us to seek or attain extreme personal wealth. We simply can not process the concept without being corrupted by it. Without compromising basic morality.
Extreme wealth is the single greatest corrupt influence of modern society. With every 'zero' on the paycheck, our basic instincts to care for family and community are compromised.
Those of you who still aren't convinced, consider this:
If God himself gave you the power to end poverty, bring about world peace, and take a bonus of $100,000,000 for yourself, would you do it?
If God himself gave you the power to end poverty, bring about world peace, OR take a bonus of $100,000,000 for yourself, which would you choose?
Not only is the greatest concentration of wealth in world history the single greatest underlying cause of economic instability. The very concept of extreme personal wealth is the most corrupt influence in the history of mankind.
I speak the ugly truth.
There will be no reform on Wall Street.
There will be no recovery for the vast majority.
There will be no government "of the people" and "for the people".
Not one of us will live to see it.
Then you and I do have a profound disagreement- to a degree. I am not naive enough to think that we could be the perfect society. No such thing can exist. Certainly not now. However, I do believe in the struggle for that goal and I do believe the Constitution provides a stable and strong foundation for it. I am not prepared to give it up and I have not lost hope in its promise- the promise that we have the power to control our own destiny.
I believe in the struggle also.
I am with you Brother. Stand smartly. From my view, there is no more pressing an issue in renewing our Constitution than the one to restore sound money.
See Dr. Vieira's Article called, The Key to Sound Money. http://mises.org/journals/fm/fm489.pdf (He wrote it in 1989 but the truth doesn't change.)
up twinkles
Well Said! Follow the Oathkeepers.
Consti-pbbbbt- I was born a man. Not a citizen, not a soldier- a man.
Are you a "99%" man or 100% man? Sorry...it was there for the taking.
Well said sir.
<stands and applauds foundersten>
Here, here! Here, here! I like it. Cheers!
Great post.....I suggest vote out ALL incumbents in 2012.
Glad to hear it! Glad that you saw through the socialist crap too. It seems that people in the military are a LOT more aware of the state of things in the world, because they are on the front lines and are past the illusions that seem to occupy the minds of most americans.
I think OWS has a bit of a learning curve. At first it comes off as a disorganized pile of filth, but then you start seeing the good parts and recognizing the filth as the zombie army of the 1%.
Great post, Simply stated, too many major corporatins are sitting on piles of money and refuse to hire, letting fear permeatet to the top. Shareholders and investers homeowners and workers are fed up with their fearmongering stance, the auto industry has been revived, and should be a model for other corporations who hold the money, if not the cards, can't relly say but we know they hold this static money and are in the best financial shape of all time, but are hoarding it and not hiring, in fact they are laying off while in a profit cycle. We need to pass on the message that if corporations are going to continue holding on to idle money, the government has the right to tax that stagnant exchange at a high rate, unless they begin hiring from their current base of employment. Even the corporations would have a smile on their face in short order, when the 2011 economy with a market that now needs to buy everything kicks back in. Varoom!
Sortition
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Best post I've read today. We have to take back the government and stop the manipulation by the thieves that represent us in Congress.
Thank you for your post, and for your service to America.
I concur