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Forum Post: All those who think the Occupy movement has failed...

Posted 2 years ago on Jan. 20, 2012, 4:33 p.m. EST by ARod1993 (2420)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

...haven't been paying much attention. However scruffy and disheveled we may be, however "failed" the Occupy movement may or may not look, even if it were to magically vanish off the planet tomorrow, it wouldn't have been for nothing. Glass-Steagall has become a buzzword. Campaign finance reform has become a buzzword. The language of economic inequality is beginning to take back its rightful place in the American lexicon, and the chickens loosed by corporate profiteers and the religious right are beginning to come home to roost.

That process is not going to stop if we stop, any more than it would stop if we stopped a week ago or even a month ago. The political and economic sea change is coming; all we're here to do is to speed it along and even if we were to walk away all that would do is change the time of reckoning. And generally speaking, the more delayed such a reckoning is the nastier it will be when it comes.

Y'all can vote me down, question my sexuality, make ludicrous claims about my mother (since apparently that's all the vandals and wannabe trolls on here know how to do), or do whatever else strikes your fancy. That's fine; I'm not the one you have to worry about, nor are half the people on here. The ones you have to worry about are in lines at the unemployment office for looking for jobs that don't exist. They're the ones who held good, strong, solid blue-collar jobs for most of their lives only to be thrown on the scrap heap by outsourcing. They're the ones fresh out of college who were promised the world and mortgaged their futures to get it, only to be tossed a Starbucks apron and a sneer instead. There are a lot of them out there, they're beginning to find their voice, and they're pissed. Do you really want to be the one standing between them and a way up and out? Again, it's fine if you do; just remember that standing in front of the gates of opportunity is a great way to get trampled.

29 Comments

29 Comments


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[-] 3 points by PublicCurrency (1387) 2 years ago

SOPA and PIPA dead for now. 13 million people called their representatives.

This is how Representative Democracy works. "A republic, if we can keep it!"

[-] 3 points by ARod1993 (2420) 2 years ago

Exactly; the people are both the greatest strength of a republic and it's greatest weakness. A disciplined, well-informed, active citizenry with a strong investment in its society can create and maintain a strong, slender, efficient, and fairly egalitarian nation pretty much indefinitely; by contrast, a people that doesn't particularly care about its country will inevitably wind up with a country that doesn't particularly care about them. The effort we saw with SOPA and PIPA was great; now what we need to do is find a way of convincing people that the argument over every bill is as urgent and worth involvement in its own way as the argument over SOPA, and we'll be on track to fix things again.

[-] 3 points by April (3196) 2 years ago

You're right, but the SOPA and PIPA effort was a single understandable issue that was brought to the awareness of the general public in an immediate and understandable way. It made sense. When something make sense, people will join up and participate. This movement is it's own worst enemy in many ways.

I think SOPA and PIPA is a great example of how the general public is eager to get involved, at a political level, when the right tactics are used, making change through government, that makes sense. And what's more, the government responded as it should. It's a perfect example of how change is made working with government.

Somehow someway this same kind of effort needs to happen to enact campaign finance reform. A focused and concerted effort, that can gain the support of the general public in a massive mobilized way, just like SOPA.

[-] 1 points by nucleus (3291) 2 years ago

Don't kid yourself, SOPA and PIPA have only been temporairly delayed, and will get passed in the very near future. As will the Keystone pipeline.

[-] 1 points by PublicCurrency (1387) 2 years ago

Bear in mind: "can't never could . . . "

[-] 1 points by April (3196) 2 years ago

They'll have to at least make some concessions to address the censorship problem, no?

[-] 1 points by nucleus (3291) 2 years ago

Nope. Just like they did (not) address the constitutional problems of indefinite detention without representation in the NDAA.

Imagining that this government is going to respect constitutional rights is delusional.

[-] 0 points by XenuLives (1645) from Charlotte, NC 2 years ago

Sadly, I have to agree with nucleus here in light of Obama's Christmas NDAA signing AFTER he promised he would veto it.

Time to vote all of these good-for-nothing Congressmen and the lying President out! Don't sit on your ass this year and watch another election drift by. Participate in promoting a candidate that isn't part of the status-quo. Vote...and get your friends to show up and vote too! Find those open races and get some Occupiers to run for them. Join a third party. Start a third party. Do SOMETHING other than shrug and complain!

http://www.the-99-declaration.org/

http://www.americanselect.org/

[-] 1 points by nucleus (3291) 2 years ago

Are you sad because you have to agree with me or sad because we're going to get screwed again?

[-] 0 points by XenuLives (1645) from Charlotte, NC 2 years ago

Because this country is fucked-up, and nearly everybody I know doesn't give a damn.

[-] 2 points by HitGirl (2263) 2 years ago

Failed? Didn't Newt Gingrich just join the movement?

[-] 2 points by francismjenkins (3713) 2 years ago

OWS is temporarily dampened because of one thing, WINTER. Finding a new place to run an assembly isn't rocket science, I'm gonna start donating more money, everyone else should do the same (if they can). OWS is in churches helping the homeless, and active doing many other things. January is the most depressing month of the year, so in acknowledgement of this biological phenomena, let's keep our wits about us, when you feel depressed, remind yourself it's January .... think "American Spring"!

[-] 2 points by beautifulworld (20534) 2 years ago

I like the way you worded this post ARod1993. It is from the heart. Check out the url at the top of your screen. If you can't speak from your heart here, where can you?

[-] 1 points by suslov (7) 2 years ago

a new international political forum http://wholeearth.lolipop.jp

[-] 1 points by Samcitt (136) 2 years ago

I like this guy, he reminds me of well myself at his age :) I majorly fell off the idealistic bandwagon a few years back into fatalistic cynicism which in some parts helps and other parts brings misery.

I would suggest you maintain your faith in humanity, it does you well.

[-] 1 points by opensociety4us (914) from Norwalk, CT 2 years ago

Wise words. I've yet to see the usefulness of denying the existence of even the minutest link, which would require a basic level of respect, between all of us.

[-] 1 points by TitusMoans (2451) from Boulder City, NV 2 years ago

You are a fan of hyperbole. I would hardly consider anything you call a buzzword much of a topic at all, except among certain activist groups.

The American public in general still believes in the electoral process, that we're "the land of the free and the home of the brave," and that God really is on our side.

You'll have to convince the average American otherwise, before you make a real dent in public opinion,

[-] 2 points by ARod1993 (2420) 2 years ago

I have nothing against the electoral process, and I honestly figure it's the only reason things aren't a lot worse than they are now. Watching some of the idiocy coming out of certain OWS affiliates, and watching that little debacle with the drummers play out in Zuccotti Park pretty much confirmed that consensus-based direct democracy is worse than useless when deployed among a badly divided population (not that I had a ton of faith in it beforehand, but those incidents moved it from the back burner of my mind out of the picture).

I also don't believe that we have to challenge those core assumptions that you listed above to get ahead; in fact I think that doing so is a great way to wind up as a historical side note (at least for the forseeable future). Rather, we have to reshape how people interpret those assumptions, and we have to get ourselves together enough we don't scare or piss off ordinary people simply by dint of our existence. I've posted a number of suggestions on here about how to do that, and I'd be happy to show you if you'd like.

In all honesty, American exceptionalism can be turned around to act as an even bigger help than it can be a hindrance; just redefine it so that instead of "We are America, and we are special, so we don't have to change anything" it becomes "We are America, and what makes us special is that we can and will do whatever it takes to achieve our full potential." Make it about being the city on a hill, not invoking the image of the city on a hill whenever you want to shut up people who want to change things, and you'd be amazed at what we can do.

Also, you're right; I let my language get away from me a bit when I wrote that; I simply got angry at some of the taunts and general derision from people who disagree and wanted to return the favor.

[-] 1 points by TitusMoans (2451) from Boulder City, NV 2 years ago

To answer both justthefacts and ARod. I've lived on the West Coast and in the heartland. While I consider myself an expert on neither, I do consider myself a good observer and knowledgable about my surroundings and the local inhabitants.

I don't disagree with your ideals, I just question the impression that the Occupy movement has made on average Americans, who,contrary to what many people say, are a hardworking, intelligent bunch. They take life seriously: not only their country, but their religions, their neighbors, their families.

They realize the political system has become almost unworkable. Maybe that's why Ross Perot made such a dent in the early '90s. Americans were ready for a change, though Perot crumbled before the election, and afterward his Party became mostly a forum for extremists. Still, Perot's little spark almost grew into a real third party.

Nowadays, it's hard to really differentiate Republicans and Democrats aside from their rhetoric. In fact though both parties have ruled the White House and both Houses of Congress at different times over the past thirty years, the country has basically remained on the same course, which raises the question of who really controls the government.

I believe that to change the opinion of average Americans, you have to show them, not tell them.

If the Occupy movement wants to influence average Americans, all its disparate individuals and groups will have to demonstrate how to effectively bring about orderly change. That's a tall order, though other groups have succeeded in the past and changed our nation for the better.

[-] 1 points by justhefacts (1275) 2 years ago

I adore ARod because he actually IS a genuine, concerned, and idealistic young man who DOES have faith in "humanity" as a whole. Without people like him, people like me would slip into irreversible pessimism. :-)

I also believe he has a lot to learn from "the world"-especially that "the world" outside of where he grew up contains a LOT of very different, very good people who have grown up feeling and believing different things than he does. The majority of the OWS members on this forum are concentrated on the east coast and the west coast-and if they've never lived outside of those two myopic paradigms, they really have no CLUE who "the rest" of the American citizens are. That takes personal experience.

But, I think you Titus are correct. Real Americans see that the political process has grown tainted and ugly and corrupt-but they are steadfast about NOT throwing the Republic out with the politicians. There is no evidence that proves what living up to the Constitution and the Founding principles of this country can accomplish-because almost since the beginning-WE HAVEN'T BEEN ALLOWED TO ACTUALLY DO IT. Yet there lives within MANY of us the belief that if we only WERE allowed to, the golden society that we all could love and enjoy would spring up and overtake the evils of the whole world.

That hope ARod, that "patriots" desire to bring about what the Founders actually intended, to fully LIVE that grand experiment-without the impediment of those who seek to destroy it's wisdom and power-is something people like ME will die fighting for. And we are prepared to fight for it, to the death, if we have to.

[Removed]

[-] -1 points by WooHoo (15) 2 years ago

Let's do a drum circle!

[-] -3 points by GirlFriday (17435) 2 years ago

Great post!!!

It hasn't failed and it isn't winding down. They are just hoping that if they repeat it enough someone will buy into their crap. They are scared and it shows.

[-] 2 points by unimportant (716) 2 years ago

The adage is, If you repeat a lie often enough and to enough people, somebody will believe it. This of course, is a lie :-)

http://www.nycga.net/groups/constitution/docs/constitutional-amendment-to-define-the-status-of-created-entities

[+] -5 points by GirlFriday (17435) 2 years ago

I dunno. Looks like we have a small group of people here that would be clear demonstration of believing the lies.

[-] 0 points by Ninetyninenot (-57) 2 years ago

It was always a self-important exaggerated thing, so in part, maybe it isn't slowing down. It's simply being understood for what it is: some needy and directionless 20-something whiners and older long-time leftists. Not 99% of anything, but rather the 5% that's always wanted socialism.

If it's anything different, how come your posts are now probably at least 1/3 of the posts on this site? LOL. GirlFriday? GIrlbyherself.

[+] -5 points by GirlFriday (17435) 2 years ago

You will lose. That's why you are here. You know it and everyone else knows it as well. You have no defense.

There are issues that must be dealt with. Grow up. :D

[-] 1 points by Ninetyninenot (-57) 2 years ago

If trends continue, in 3 months, this will be the GirlFriday angry at the world site and not much else.

[-] 0 points by America921 (161) 2 years ago

lols

[+] -4 points by DKAtoday (28261) from Coon Rapids, MN 2 years ago

Lobby the government. Your voice is a vote. Petitioning is lobbying. The Peoples Lobby. Take part, take action.

Forward environmental change. Your participation can make a difference.

http://act.credoaction.com/campaign/keystone_sotu/?id=33678-4904244-%3Dxzka6x&t=7

187,506 signatures so far for Bernie Sanders petition as of 9:48am central time 01/20/2012

http://sanders.enews.senate.gov/mail/util.cfm?mailaction=clickthru&gpiv=2100081904.557411.411&gen=1&mailing_linkid=34578

The petition to save abandoned houses has 16 signatures as of 01/20/2012. Were just rolling right along.

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/Savingpeople-savinghomes-payingdowntheNationaldeficit/

Here is a place where you can directly address change. Take part, it does not hurt and may very well heal/help. Forward the cause of reform and rebirth.

http://www.care2.com/go/z/e/Ag8nw/zL2Q/B18Bb

Sierra Club has some good things to take part in as well. Set-up and ready for you to take part in. http://sierraclub.org/