Forum Post: After 4 weeks of being involved in an occupy, I am still confused has to where they see this heading
Posted 13 years ago on Oct. 29, 2011, 12:47 a.m. EST by hchc
(3297)
from Tampa, FL
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
Anyone on here care to discuss? Because usually this is a non-discussed strategy.
I agree, they cannot seem to get behind the most clear and obvious issue that they should be using as leverage - http://occupywallst.org/forum/ows-objective-1-fractional-reserve-lending-is-a-cr
Are you near NYC? Get involved with the Demands Working Group.
Im in Tampa and have been trying to get that ball rolling.
I think it's early to worry about that, for now its job is to keep going, it's about waking people up and getting them talking. Give people time to rub their bleary eyes and rediscover the meaning of we the people.
"Run not in the dark lest you bash your foot against a stone." No path, no mark.
point taken... I just advise we keep the path nice and broad or we will find our traveling companions wandering back to where they came from-- most Americans don't like marching single file.
March as you like but without a destination, where are you headed? If you don't have one nor know how to get there, you may wind up walking in a circle.
Personally I believe that we need to have a two prong strategy. First and immediate goal to create support and momentum.
End the Fed will cross the political spectrum and fund large domestic work projects would be a good first choice mainly because it is fairly simple to get agreement on. Just an observation. Healthcare is a "brier patch" issue for immediate goal and very controversial.
The second prong must be significant change to the system in order to allow everyone's ideas to be heard in congress and acted on as it should function. We can't scrap the entire system, it would be too unpredictable. What was once considered a bribe only two years ago is now just free speech. It shouldn't be shocking that bribery has led to an unfair system.
I got together with my buddies over the last year forming a political action committee and non-profit corporation created to remove multinational corporations and foreign nations permitted bribery. Our politicians don't care if an idea has 80% approval now if their sponsors are against it. To get everyone's ideas for the solutions we all seek to the pressing problems, we need to open the doors of our government to the people again. Those ideas won't evaporate before our eyes anymore. The system must change or we will fight losing battles one after another. There will be no peace if we never win. This is our last big chance. We are too important to fail.
You wouldn't believe how easy it can be with only one tenth the energy in OWS. Forget the tents now, winter is coming, file petitions. Knock on doors, we can win in the voting booth in 2012 all over the country if we work together.
This is our petition for Washington that will be submitted on Monday for certification for the ballot in 2012. Certify one in your state and let's rock and roll.
Title: A petition to reform campaign finance
Language: "Should the State of Washington, under Article Five of the United States Constitution, embody a delegation to summon a National Constitutional Convention for the purpose of adopting the Disclose Act: “To amend the Federal Election Campaign Act of 1971 to prohibit foreign influence in federal elections, to prohibit government contractors from making expenditures with respect to such elections, and to establish additional disclosure requirements with respect to spending in such elections.”
It is time for real action and we are going forward.
http://youtu.be/OqhsUjDgrDA www.hardtruthpac.org
http://thinkprogress.org/special/2011/10/18/346892/chart-media-jobs-wall-street-ignoring-deficit-hysteria/
Changing the national dialog is a heck of an accomplishment on its own, I'd say. The problems OWS is addressing are so huge, so endemic, and perpetrated by such a wildly powerful cabal I consider it something of a minor miracle we're finally framing the debate properly; anyone who expects a bunch of underprivileged kids to solve all the world's problems in a few weeks has a highly unrealistic sense of what us average citizens are up against. Adopting a traditional organizational structure would create points of acute vulnerability (which is probably why there seem to be so many people suggesting this "helpful" course of action), and preparing a list of "demands" (as a terrorist might) would factionalize the movement back into irrelevancy. OWS is working because it's tapping into ordinary people's sense of fairness and exposing the hollow promises we once called the American Dream. If you want to see policy discussions or government action, check this out:
https://sites.google.com/site/the99percentdeclaration/
OWS isn't likely to solve anything directly; it serves to demonstrate to people that they aren't the only ones scared, hurting, and backed into a corner by what has become a perversion of genuine capitalism. OWS doesn't exist to deliver a handcrafted solution to all of your problems, it exists to motivate you to speak up, find other people who think as you do, and craft your OWN solutions.
Keep spreading the message, patriots! All but the most cruel and callous Americans support you!
It's headed nowhere. It is an act of treason. They are not the 99% and do not represent it. They are a small group of misguided people seeking socialist/communist implementations; both of which fail fast and are un-American. Don't like it? Get out. Go to Russia. America is not Capitalist nor a Democracy, it is a Republic with basic monetary principles. Money exists for a reason. The man who wants corn may exchange it for lumber but what happens when the other man doesn't want lumber?
Can we agree that the monetary policy has become extremely fucked up and something needs to be done to that, at the least?
That, yeah. We need to return to the gold standard.
This is where it goes next.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPR3GlpQQJA
I have been active here since the very beginning, and since the very beginning I have been trying to make some core points. These points clearly have not been digested or fully understood by the mob, and so I'm going to try to make a further attempt here again.
For these reasons, I beg of you to please immediately join me on the wiki. We need to have all of these details and all of these ideas put together in an organized fashion, rather than posted in a long scrawl which will never be read.
http://occupythiswiki.org/wiki/THE_99%25_POLITICAL_PARTY
http://occupythiswiki.org/wiki/Main_Page
http://www.followthemoney.org/?gclid=CMbY87bB-qsCFUPt7Qod9HE8mQ
http://maplight.org/us-congress/guide/data/money?9gtype=search&9gkw=list%20of%20campaign%20donations&9gad=6213192521.1&9gag=1786513361&gclid=CP61oYbB-qsCFQFZ7AodcTF0jw
http://www.opensecrets.org/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/our-new-wiki/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/non-violence-evolution-by-paradigm-shift/
OWS is a new community in-making. This community is using wikipedia principle (free, leaderless, multitude, voluteers). It is growing everyday around the world.
Wikipedia is neither leaderless nor unorganized. There are executive decisions made every minute of every day by editors. Some of them are thoroughly unpopular and have inspired minor revolts.
Wikipedia also has a distinct advantage in that everything that needs to be done there can be done piecemeal by individuals. It requires very little coordination. Occupy doesn't have that luxury, and yet it has no ability to mobilize and coordinate groups of people to do anything more sophisticated than walking - and, I don't know if you were there on the 15th? But it doesn't even walk very well. The march was led by the police, eff eff ess.
The jury is out on Occupy, but recent evidence - for ex: thorough unpreparedness for the seizure of generators? Lack of unified, organized response to arrests? - doesn't bode well. We're all waiting for you to "in-make" yourselves an agile, disciplined organizational body, the activist's equivalent of an opposable thumb.
The occupy movement is only less 2 month, but it is occupying more than 1000 city around the world by people's power. The principle of Wikipedia is the soul of the movement.
Folks, here's what's turning your movement into a sideshow, and into eventual irrelevancy. First, you have no coherent platform. There are just a bunch of demands, some reasonable, others ludicrous. I saw "The Movement" in the 60s and they ended up having one basic platform - get out of Vietnam. People nationwide related to that and in the end we left Vietnam. If you want grassroots support you must ensure Main Street understands what you want. Second, your movement is being played by the Obama regime. They're trying to use you when they've sucked up just as hard to Wall Street as the Bush Administration. The Obama regime will do ANYTHING to be re-elected. Should they get in again, hey, they've cashed their check and won't give a flying fuck about you, me, or anything/anyone else but their own agenda.
You and the Tea Party people may have more in common than you think. They are better organized and have turned that organization into some political power, helping people get elected at all levels during the 2010 election. If you truly want change in the USA it can only be done through the ballot box. Right now you have no chance. But if you and the Tea Party can find that common ground, can work together, can develop some sort of coherent, rational platform, your chances to realize lasting change grow dramatically. Someone reading this is in a leadership position within your movement. What's it going to be? Do some heavy lifting, find some allies, really do something great and right, or just keep jerking off?
Non-political Ideological taking down of the banks along with some how stripping the govts power by making all of them invalid to be elected... and possibly a new draft of the constitution or a wide variety of changes so that the corrupt policies/loopholes already in place are taken away?
what goes on at the general assemblies and teachings every day
Right now, it's still just a festival of self-celebration. They haven't looked ahead, yet, and under their current structure (I use the term loosely, here), they are actually incapable of looking ahead.
Either it will change, and then "where they see this heading" might take on meaning, or it will not change, and this will just be a precursor to something substantial.
I saw something about a robin hood tax on wiki? Cant imagine this is the only thing.. Why not form a committee of 50-100 respectable and proven reliable people to organize a committee and have them sorta vote on what should be done moving forward..
Too much regard for 1960's nostalgia. Thank progressive radio host Normangoldman for that.
The idea of the banks recovering the loss thru selling the property is, at this time, ludicrous
Idea: Banks should be required to ' Suspend' payments and interest accumulation if a person loses their job during an 'economic downturn' until that person finds a comparable paying job or until the national unemployment rate is less than 5%.
this will force the creation of jobs. start a petition to get this law passed
I have been trying to get to the essence of what The People need to do, to take control of their own government; instead of begging criminals for respect from the streets:
Here are my thoughts so far:
The People will need:
1) Publically verifiable, constant, Internet Voting (to guarantee a reliable vote, 24/7) 2) A new law compelling government, and all its associates, to follow the popular vote 3) Audits of all government spending and money printing (we must control the money, this is key) 4) Organized, nationwide, tax withholding to defund our enemies (we must force our control on them and not let their laws scare us into sheep)
We could get this by next year if we worked at it. I say we go for it, because our government has a million problems, and even with the people passing many new laws it will still take years to find all the problems and vote them out of our country. Let's start now.
hchc , please be aware that your confusion is DIRECTLY due to the fact that NYCGA cannot discuss functional, lawful strategy. Or, the only law that can be used to create lawful government, Article 5 of the constitution.--
After it is known that the US government is NOT constitutional, THEN the realization that IF the gov were constitutional, the need for the current demands would have never existed. Any attempt to compel change outside of law will considered lawless and people are going to be hurt.---- Know where to place the strategic blame.
There are Americans using knowledge of law to make well founded strategy.
A effort each evening to create a web conference to discuss Article 5 is beginning.--
http://www.articlevmeeting.info/
Comprehensive strategy.---
http://algoxy.com/ows/strategyofamerica.html
I agree with the Article 5 startegy 100%
It's been determined that NYCGA will only listen to their own focus groups. Perhaps another term for such a process would be" filter groups". In that, which makes OWS closed to public input, because the filter groups are conditioned to only accept euro style socialism as a paradigm to make demands within, an insurrection of the society is being conducted at the tail of a major media corruption of the American human mind, despite the un American protest to consumerism.-----
Accordingly, there is no way to bring meaning to this protest. It's just going to fail and go down in history as the last movement before defacto national slavery is instituted. Very sad because the US constitution actually carries a fuly legal method to make constitutional government and see demands met. Article 5. Education is vital.
A effort each evening to create a web conference to discuss Article 5 is beginning.--
http://www.articlevmeeting.info/
Comprehensive strategy.---
http://algoxy.com/ows/strategyofamerica.html
It's an egalitarian movement intended to garnish support for the Dems... they're hoping to attract working class support but it ain't working.