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Forum Post: R vs D! Playing the Role of Arch Enemies is Counterproductive!

Posted 5 years ago on June 1, 2012, 1:35 p.m. EST by TrevorMnemonic (5827)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

Since when were republicans the anti-war party? They're not. The one thing the republicans in Congress don't criticize Obama for is attacking nations. In fact the majority of them think he needs to do it "better" and be more harsh. Which is the opposite of wanting the wars to end. The republican politicians want him to go harder on Iran. And Obama himself said military options have not been taken off the table. A lot of republicans in Congress even wanted to stay in Iraq longer than the Status of Forces Agreement with Iraq. So why do so many people on this forum accuse anti-war activists of being secret republicans for speaking out against the wars and Obama's role in the undeclared drone wars in nations that did not attack us?

I remember back when Bush was in office it was the democrat citizens and a lot of democrats in Congress that were speaking out against a president leading wars and attacking nations that did not attack us. What happened to sticking to that policy?

The drone wars are illegal and kill innocent civilians all the time. It's counter productive to bomb nations that did not attack us. Anything that kills large numbers of civilians is counterproductive. Sanctions are counterproductive when it hurts the people and not the tyrant leader. We saw that happen in the 90's against Iraq before Bush and congress went to war.

The drone wars are illegal! - http://occupywallst.org/forum/warmonger-presidents-from-bush-to-obama/

So when I speak out against attacking nations that did not attack us now... that somehow means I'm a secret republican? What the fuck does that even mean? It's that kind of attitude that plays into the 1%'s divide and conquer tactic.

And what if I was a republican? Does that make attacking another nation that did not attack us any less wrong? Does the fact that the term militant is used to define "any male of military age" any less wrong? If they take out 50 innocent 20 year old males they're called militants in our books because they were near a target so they must be bad. Did you know black water has gotten contracts in Afghanistan under this administration? Is that less wrong?

I am not a republican and I am not a democrat. I don't play that game. But yes I do vote.

Key inspirational heroes speaking where many refuse to speak - Dennis Kucinich, Alan Grayson, and of course the hearts and minds behind the ACLU

If you want to read some truth I suggest buying Dennis Kucinich's speech "A Prayer for America." I bought it on Amazon for 10 bucks with shipping included.

NO MORE WAR. They can do a better job on the inside of our nation and take notice of threats early like they should have done before 9/11. We can still protect our nation without drone bombing nations that did not attack us. The 1% is making money on these wars on Wall Street. Corporatism is still at play as private corporations still obtain huge military contracts.

Don't look at this issue as a persuasion on how to vote. Just look at this as an issue to get these presidents to stop!

Vote how you want. But if we're all fighting for the same issues we can see change in both parties. Name calling of others and accusations without factual representation are counterproductive.

It's much better to work together as citizens than to play their propaganda game of US vs THEM. It is impossible to get a country to agree on everything. But we can try. And the only way that we can truly try is to work together on issues instead of playing the role of arch enemies. If we all agree on a lot of issues, we can get both sides to change.

People have tried to push me out of here because I do not support the drone policies of this administration. Why would you want someone like me to leave just because of that? That kind of US vs THEM game is counterproductive. We are the 99% If more people join the protest and fight for the same issues, it's more likely to lead to change.



Read the Rules
[-] 2 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 5 years ago

The government is out of control!

We're supposed to control our government!

It's in the constitution!

[-] 1 points by lkindr (58) 5 years ago

The 1% of the 1% have been dividing and conquering the common people worldwide for several hundred years. They have lots of experience and they pass down their knowledge to their progeny very effectively. Britain failed to divide the American colonists and they lost the Revolution, but they found lackeys, agents, or puppets in America who've been dividing us ever since then. It would be a relief if the common people would come to recognize the tactic and develop effective counter-strategies.

[-] 1 points by Odin (583) 5 years ago

The new rule Trevor is, you cannot criticize Obama until after the election. If you do, then you are a repub troll. Didn't you know that? So put your morals on hold.

[-] 2 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 5 years ago

lulz. It's funny because I've had several people tell me that. I've also been told that Bush was my fault. Even though I did not vote for Bush and I supported Gore. I was also only 14 when Bush took office. I've been told the wars are Ralph Nader's fault too. It's pretty awesome how vivid some of their imaginations can be. I call them the Obama or die people. There's a big difference between a Kucinich and an Obama and it's Goldman Sachs. I'll be honest, I definitely lean toward democrats when I vote, but if they violate my list of no-no's, they will never get my support again.

If they want my support, they gotta obey the list. If they supported any of the following, I do not support them

The Financial Modernization Act (which helped create the financial crisis)

The Republican Jobs Act (which will create another financial crisis)

The Patriot Act (which stole our 4th amendment)

The NDAA of 2012, without removing Section 1021 (which stole our 5th and 6th amendment)

The NDAA of 2013 (which prepares for war with Iran and makes war a policy if Iran's supposed WMD program can't be stopped)

The War in Iraq (which was based on lies and was a war of aggression)

HR 347 (the anti-protest bill)

The TARP bailouts (which gave billions to a fraudulent financial system that stole people's money and homes instead of creating a real solution and implementing regulations to prevent future problems) The billionaire and multi-millionaire CEO's had more than enough money to fix their own problem. The bailouts were driven by fear not fact. One thing that drives me nuts is when some people on this site try to defend the bail outs. It's like they don't understand what OWS is about.

Defense of Marriage Act (which is supported by bigots)

Bombing nations that didn't attack us (which is supported by warmongers)

If you get sued for war crimes by the ACLU, that's also a huge no-no.

[-] 1 points by Odin (583) 5 years ago

That's a great list. Obama is definitely no MLK either. I have heavily favored dems also. It took me a long time to figure out the corrupt dynamics of both parties. You are light years ahead of me when I was your age. I guess I was too busy raisng kiddies to pay attention as much as I should have, sorry. Your humanity, when you talk of the wars, comes out loud and clear, and I respect that very much kid.

[-] 2 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 5 years ago

Thanks for the nice words. I'm 25 now though. I wish we had someone as awesome as Martin Luther King in the White House. I'd be so proud of our country. Martin Luther King would never attack countries that didn't attack us nor would he work hand in hand with the banks as they accelerated foreclosures on people's homes.

I'm so disappointed in America for their 2 choices for the leading candidates in the 2012 election.

[-] 0 points by Odin (583) 5 years ago

You are welcome 'kid' :-) Yes i think most of us feel the way you do. We want our country to mirror our ideals. The world wants that too.



[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 5 years ago

If you think it's useless, then don't waste your time.

I think this site is a great place to share information and that's what I use it for. Some people post some really good stuff.

Also speaking against illegal actions and speaking against the wars is not partisan.

We all live in the same country. Playing R vs D as Arch Enemies is Counterproductive.

If people are playing that game don't read or comment on their posts. That's my suggestion to you.

[-] 1 points by Odin (583) 5 years ago

My comment was not meant for you, and i don't think Xenu's wasn't either. It was meant for the many people on here pushing partisan politics, at any cost. Your humanity, and caring on where this movement goes is obvious.

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 5 years ago

Thanks Odin for the good words.

[-] 0 points by XenuLives (1645) from Charlotte, NC 5 years ago

I agree with you, but I think the divide between the two major political ideologies is too deep to reconcile. I fear that if we keep being divided with the increasingly violent rhetoric that we will be fighting Civil War 2 soon. I'm going to do what I need to do to protect myself now that the Christians are opening declaring that they want to kill people that they don't agree with, and all of the "pro-Life" bombings don't make me feel safe either.

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 5 years ago

Yes but that is not the majority. Nowhere near the majority. In my opinion most republicans I know don't even pay attention to politics, like my uncle. He just votes for an R because his dad did. A lot od D's and R's vote like that too. Without research.

I have 3 friends that are republicans and we hang out and agree on a lot of issues. They have never tried to bomb me or anyone. I don't get why they're republicans and vote for who they vote for... but I also don't get why democrats voted for Obama and Hillary over Dennis Kucinich.

[-] 1 points by XenuLives (1645) from Charlotte, NC 5 years ago

Personally, I don't have a lot of choice . I live in a state that is filled to the brim with bigots and backwards types, so in the primaries I get to choose one redneck over another. Yee haw! BTW I'm getting the hell out of this state ASAP.

I actually took the Republican primary ballot this year because I thought Ron Paul would be a better candidate than bully Romney or religious nut job Santorum. I also voted against McHenry. I'd vote against Virginia Foxx too if her race was contested this year. This seemed like a better use of my vote than getting to mark Obama or "n/a" if I had the Democratic ballot.

Ditto on the Libertarian ballot. I have a Libertarian friend and she said her ballot only had two things to vote on: the Presidential nominee and Amendment One.

I'd vote for a third party candidate that matched up with what I want, AND had a chance to win. Unfortunately my state is a toss-up, so voting for the Green party candidate, for example, would literally be a dead vote. I'd rather vote against the person out of the two parties that I would least want to see in office, which means that I have to put a vote in for Obama. I'm not 100% a fan of him, but he is 1 billion times better than anyone that the Republicans has put forth, for a lot of reasons.

I am looking forward to the end of this election, where we will have 2 years to form and organize a new third party that learned from the mistakes of failed third party efforts in the past, has none of that baggage, and has a smart strategy for winning seats in Congress in 2014. My pie in the sky dream is to start my own party based on OWS principles, for the protestors who don't want a full revolution but want to try to fix what we already have first.

[-] 2 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 5 years ago

What state are you from?

I'm in Nebraska where I have a similar problem. Although the pro-life repubs in my state voted and supported to give natal care to undocumented foreigners. It was vetoed by the repub governor but it was overturned.

But Deb Fischer, the R running for senator... oh man this woman is annoying. She just says "We need a Nebraskan in Washington instead of all the bureaucrats." Failing to realize that's how the election for congress works, Nebraska has always had a Nebraskan in Washington.

And don't get me started on Ben Nelson and Lee Terry. The D and R with the nearly identical voting record.

I have to look up John Ewing. He's the guy running for congress against Lee Terry... I don't know much about him yet. But if he's against Lee Terry that's a plus.

I can't wait until the end of the election either. We need 2016 already. I just hope people will wise up enough and not vote for who the tv and money wants to win.

[-] 2 points by XenuLives (1645) from Charlotte, NC 5 years ago

I cancelled my cable service partly for that reason. Why spend $30+ every month to get propaganda from either side pumped into me when I can get all of the perspectives behind the news online for free?

The partisan TV stations wouldn't be so bad if there were balanced perspectives also available that presented the facts in a way that the average American can understand. Fox and MSNBC do a great job of riling up their bases, but the fans of these networks suffer when it comes to political knowledge compared to people who use NPR or even people who don't watch news in Fox's case. I don't have the link to the study that had those tidbits, but its on the forums somewhere.

Another pie-in-the-sky idea: OccupyTV. An actual, balanced news program. Heck, I would love to see Al-Jazeera (sp) on American airwaves, but I think a lot of Americans won't trust it based on its Islamic name.

I live in North Carolina, where 60% of my neighbors on average voted to take away a group's civil rights AGAIN. What has sad was that this amendment was not even necessary since there was already a law on the books that banned gay marriage. This much hatred disgusts me, and for my own sanity I am looking for socially healthier places to live.

[-] 2 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 5 years ago

Damn NC seems like a bigoted place to be right now. It's ridiculous how many people think it's okay to oppress people because of who they're attracted to. This girl I knew in high school posted the most bigoted shit the other day on her facebook. Oh man. It was something like "Doesn't matter how many states make it legal, what's wrong is wrong and God always punishes those who are wrong." She always seemed like such a nice person in high school but apparently she really doesn't like gay people and thinks they shouldn't be allowed to live like everyone else.

Did you read HR 4310? The new NDAA for 2013? It defines marriage as being only between a man and a woman for military weddings. Congress is full of bigots and a majority of congress loves voting away our bill of rights.

War is peace. Corporations are people. And freedom is doing what the government says. Things are getting fucked.

[-] 0 points by Odin (583) 5 years ago

I agree that it is turning into a "blight on the movement" because of all the partisanship on here. This forum is definitely not connected to the street. I always feel rejuvenated after being with all those dedicated people. I wish I could say the same here. The good thing as I have said before, not many people at the heart of this movement look at this forum, as they know what it is/has become.