Forum Post: According to Christianity, God commands us to OCCUPY....
Posted 12 years ago on Oct. 31, 2011, 6:41 p.m. EST by JessicaDeer
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Psalm 82:3-4 "Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy. Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked." -King James Version (1611). I am the 99%.
This is what decent people do, with or without the bible
That's right! But how it should look like in reality? Here is the answer! http://content.foto.mail.ru/mail/vperetyatkov/_myphoto/i-250.jpg
There are actually some televangalists that preach that we can obtain financial security through prayer, that God will answer your call for more money. It is disgusting how the right has turned the love for God into a hatred for the poor, and sensible christians are beginning to see the glaring disconnect between loving ones neighbor and allowing the rich to plunder our planet at the expense of the poor.
Fantastic sentiment, but nowhere does that say to do so by taking from others. Charity isn't done by the gov taking from someone and giving to another. It is done by individuals on a voluntary basis. Intersting that Red states do more charitable giving than Blue states.
Fantastic sentiment, but nowhere does that to do so by taking from others. Charity isn't done by the gov taking from someone and giving to another. It is done by individuals on a voluntary basis. Intersting that Red states do more charitable giving than Blue states.
Fantastic sentiment, but nowhere does that to do so by taking from others. Charity isn't done by the gov taking from someone and giving to another. It is done by individuals on a voluntary basis. Intersting that Red states do more charitable giving than Blue states.
You have to be in the fringe if you believe in this fable. We are recreating the world. The history started when Wall Street was occupied first.
Thou shall not covet your neighbors goods. I'm not for demanding anything from anybody. However I'm also not for anyone demanding something from me either, like tax money to subsidize their irresponsible business practices or others' laziness and entitlement attitudes. Everyone needs to pull their own weight when they can and lend charitable assistance to those who can't.
"God" has nothing to do with anything on this planet unless "God" is a completely vile voyeuristic psychopath who enjoys peoples suffering.
Thou shall not bear false witness against thy neighbor.
ummmm- interesting- if OWS was to create a vision statement- including things like that- into its vision for the future of mankind- and included writings from all the religions and physiology-s. it would have new members beating down its doors to join and get involved in the movement. a movement that would have the potential to join all of mankind into one group. not a world government that enslaves us all- but a vision that all would live by.
Of the world, the occupiers are the 1%. So, fork it over. God told you to.
Amen.
I'm not even religious, but--- Praise God! There's a lot of wisdom in that book.
I'd like to see someone who calls themselves a person of God come up with scripture that says rob the poor and blame them for it.
My comments are completely rearranged in terms of which posts they're responding to. This format is frustrating that way.
Funny, I've never heard anyone say that. Is that supposed to be the mantra of the greedy capitalist?
Not: pay debts you rightly owe... not: raise yourself up to the best of your ability. I'm talking about where in the Bible does it say the rich are entitled to pay their debts by taking from the poor, the rich are entitled to mock and sneer upon the poor, it's easier for the poor to get through the eye of a needle than the kingdom of heaven... That sort of thing. ???
How do you rob the poor when they freely take your money knowing they'll have to pay it back one day. Well, not so much anymore, but still.
It's called: -bailout $$$ came at American citizens' expense while they got tax breaks and bonuses -our jobs shipped overseas -predatory lending -inflated prices on goods -rich use roads, buildings, want everyone else to pay taxes for them while they get breaks -wanting to take away Social Security people have worked whole lives for
I know, kind of like a half billion dollar 'loan' to a solar company that still managed to go bankrupt, or selling 90K 'green cars' that get 20mpg running on gas.
So, with a bailout they don't have to pay any money back? Kinda like going bankrupt in some cases?
it failed because it could not compete with the other consolidated nation, China. I guess the lessen learned is if you are going to do something go all in.
And you'd think they would have known that going on. I mean, seriously, I know that, everybody else knows that it's hard to compete with third world labor, and even then, it's still an expensive product.
What God has a comin for purveyors of evil practices and non-believers. God ain't love and sweetness. In God we trust, not some neoliberal godless philosophy emanating from the bowels of Zucatti park.
"As surely as I live, says the Sovereign LORD, I will cut you off completely. I will show you no pity at all because you have defiled my Temple with idols and vile practices. A third of your people will die in the city from famine and disease. A third of them will be slaughtered by the enemy outside the city walls. And I will scatter a third to the winds and chase them with my sword. Then at last my anger will be spent, and I will be satisfied. And when my fury against them has subsided, all Israel will know that I, the LORD, have spoken to them in my jealous anger. "So I will turn you into a ruin, a mockery in the eyes of the surrounding nations and to everyone who travels by. You will become an object of mockery and taunting and horror. You will be a warning to all the nations around you. They will see what happens when the LORD turns against a nation in furious rebuke. I, the LORD, have spoken! (Ezekiel 5:11-15)
No one but God should have any money -- OWS must fork over its half million treasure trove to God.
What does this Bible quote mean?
So the Sovereign LORD says: "I will pour out my terrible fury on this place. Its people, animals, trees, and crops will be consumed by the unquenchable fire of my anger." (Jeremiah 7:20 NLT)
OWS needs free Haldol-medicated water. Already on the fringe, living out iun the cold drives the OWSers to madness.
Deploy Doctors Withour Borders to Zucatti Park, a Rationality Free Zone.
Love,
OFR
And they shall build houses, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them. They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree are the days of my people, and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands. They shall not labour in vain, nor bring forth for trouble; for they are the seed of the blessed of the LORD, and their offspring with them. (Isaiah 65:21-23)
What does God say about rapin'? 'cause that's all I have seen come out of OWS.
You're right. But you aren't doing that. You're sitting on your ass in a wet park. Waiting for the food line to open. And twinkling.
Way to deliver.
It could be you.....
They are waiting for manna to rain from the sky next.
Does this also apply when switching the menu to brown rice in an effort to shoo off the homeless and needy since they're not "real" occupiers? I don't desire to get into any theological debate here, but as long as we're quoting scripture -- "You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye." Matthew 7:5. Do everyone on the OWS a favor and leave theology out of it because I would venture a guess to say that a very large majority of them are atheists/agnostics and don't give a phooey about the bible (in other words, don't use scripture to guilt Christians into the OWS by quoting it out of context).
From Martin Luther King, Jr:
God was right - let's go liberate Mexico.
Jesus also said the poor will always be among you. Feel free to look it up if you have a Bible handy, if not, they have plenty of them free online.
Seriously, have you noticed mainstream Christians are staying far, far away from this. Ever wonder why?
Jesus was a hippie and a socialist. When he said to give up your material possessions and follow him, did you think that was his idea of a joke?
A lot of Christians who are 'haves' and opposed to 'have nots' are hypocrites who deliberately ignore the true message of the bible, and deceive themselves into thinking they are still good Christians.
So Jesus smoked dope, didn't work, what? Your Jesus maybe. I guess you think if you have a job, you MUST be evil. I think Jesus said something about that as well...
Like I said before, there is a very real reason you'll get very little Christian support here. I was asking at church Sunday about what they thought about OWS (and many had no clue what it was).
I'm sure they HAVE to have some Christians there, but I've seen nary a sign yet. I know somebody has to have one, but in no pictures have I found one.
Well, he wandered around and asked for handouts. So yeah, definitely a hippie. But I have a job. Nice try though.
And btw, you might go to church and hang out with the Christians. But you aren't one of them, because the bible doesn't make allowances for hypocrites to enter into heaven. Something you seem unaware of (probably intentionally judging by your attitude).
2 Cor. 8:9. For you know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that though He was rich, yet for your sake He became poor, that you through His poverty might become rich.
Jer. 5:28f. "[The wicked] do not plead the cause, the cause of the orphan, that they may prosper; and they do not defend the rights of the poor. Shall I not punish these people?" declares the LORD. "On such a nation as this, shall I not avenge myself?"
Being Christian means you have a personal relationship with Jesus. It don't matter if you're rich or poor, sorry. There have always been both as there always will be. I'm neither. I don't starve but I'm not exactly gonna be buying that new BMW anytime soon either.
You really think Jesus just wondered around and took handouts? That all you know about Him?
What I'm REALLY curious about, is how do you know exactly what I support? I'm real curious about that one. I also don't remember Jesus mixing religion with politics, other then giving Ceasar what was Ceasars and God what was Gods.
Never have answered my question. Figures.
Being Christian however doesn't mean that you can totally misinterpret the bible and still enter heaven.
Sorry buster. The bible is very clear on the issue. If you chose to interpret it in a different way than was intended by the writers, then that makes you no more Christian than the atheist who reads the book for kicks and giggles.
James 5:1-6. Come now, you rich, weep and howl for your miseries which are coming upon you. Your riches have rotted and your garments have become moth-eaten. ...Behold, the pay of the laborers who mowed your fields, and with you have withheld, cries out against you; and the outcry of the harvesters has reached the ears of the Lord of Sabaoth. You have lived luxuriously on the earth and led a life of wanton pleasure; you have fattened your hearts in a day of slaughter.
And religion WAS politics back in the day. Just goes to show what a poor understanding you have of the issues at hand. But I'm pretty sure that Jesus didn't care about politics. In fact, he was pretty out front and out spoken about his disdain of the rich, and support of the poor. Jesus was a commie. Just accept it and move on. You can't rewrite the bible in whatever way you want, just because it doesn't agree with your political beliefs.
Luke 6:24. "But woe to you who are rich, for you are receiving your comfort in full."
I'm for equality. I believe we should help both the fatherless and motherless.
Oh no, religion is being brought into this. sigh...
God helps those that help themselves
Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day. Teach a man to fish and he will eat for a life time.
Jesus was a hippie and a socialist. When he said to give up your material possessions and follow him, did you think that was his idea of a joke?
A lot of Christians who are 'haves' and opposed to 'have nots' are hypocrites who deliberately ignore the true message of the bible, and deceive themselves into thinking they are still good Christians.
Jesus talked about giving, not admonishing Rome to set up a welfare state.
What a hypocrite. Jesus and the bible was pretty frickin clear.
Jesus would be crucified by the Christians if he returned today.
No, I think the liberals would take care of that. Funny too how liberals shameless now invoke Jesus to pimp the welfare state after spending 40 years trying to extinguish the most trivial aspect of Christianity in public life. Court cases over a 2 minute prayer at a commencement doesn't square with "Jesus wants a welfare state".
Jer. 22:16 "Did not your father eat and drink, and do justice and righteousness? Then it was well with him. He pled the cause of the afflicted and needy; then it was well. Is that not what it means to know Me?" declares the LORD.
Modern Christians would butcher the issuer of these remarks:
Peacemaking, not War Making: Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God. [Matthew 5:9] Resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. [Matthew 5:39] I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despite-fully use you, and persecute you; [Matthew 5:44]
The Death Penalty: Thou shalt not kill [Matthew 5:21]
Crime and Punishment: If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to cast a stone at her. [John 8:7] Do not judge, lest you too be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. [Matthew 7:1 & 2.]
Justice: Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled. [Matthew 5:6] Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy [Matthew 5:7] But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses. [Matthew 6:15]
Corporate Greed and the Religion of Wealth: In the temple courts [Jesus] found men selling cattle, sheep and doves and other sitting at tables exchanging money. So he made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple area, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables. [John 2:14 & 15.] Watch out! Be on your guard against all kinds of greed; a man's life does not consist in the abundance of his possessions. [Luke 12.15.] Truly, I say unto you, it will be hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. [Matthew 19:23] You cannot serve both God and Money. [Matthew 6:24.]
Paying Taxes & Separation of Church & State: Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's. [Matthew 22:21]
Community: Love your neighbor as yourself. .[Matthew 22:39] So in everything, do to others as you would have them do to you. [Matthew 7:12.] If you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. [Matthew 19:21]
Equality & Social Programs: But when you give a feast, invite the poor, the maimed, the lame, the blind, and you will be blessed, because they cannot repay you. You will be repaid at the resurrection of the just. [Luke 14:13 &14.]
Public Prayer & Displays of Faith: And when thou pray, thou shall not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
But thou, when thou pray, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret… [Matthew 6:6 & 7]
Strict Enforcement of Religious Laws: If any of you has a son or a sheep and it falls into a pit on the Sabbath, will you not take hold of it and lift it out? [Matthew 12:11] The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath. [Mark 2:27.]
Individuality & Personal Spiritual Experience: Ye are the light of the world. [Matthew 5:14]
I still don't see a pitch for Rome to set up a welfare state. Jesus saw giving as a personality responsibility, not something to be forced by the state. God gave us free will.
Horseshit.
God also doesn't like swearing. Nice shot at a rationalization for the welfare state though.
Let's see what you say about social programs when you're 67, your wife's left you, your kids hate you, and you can't get insurance because a bunch of Libertarians thought it destroyed freedoms. Go back to spanking.
Everything has to be paid for, by you or someone else. No way around it, even as hard as liberals wish there was.
Jesus wasn't a dictator who said the gov't should take your money and redistribute it.
So how in your head am i selfish if i don't want the gov't to take my money and redistribute it to who they feel needs it.
I never said i didn't give to charity on my own, i feel everyone should give to a charity of their choice. It is good policy as a human being, but one should not be forced to. One should not be subject to anothers idea of fairness. What if i don't like your fairness? what if i don't like your cause. Conservatives are the most giving people in this country (there have been studies on this). But they feel that their direct donation to a charitable origination is the best way to go about it.
These choices are two different things
Yeah he was. That's EXACTLY what he (and the bible) said.
Luke 14:12-14. "When you give a luncheon or a dinner, do not invite your friends or your brothers or your relatives or rich neighbors, lest they also invite you in return, and repayment come to you. But when you give a reception, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, the blind, and you will be blessed, since they do not have the means to repay you; for you will be repaid at the resurrection of the righteous."
Mt. 19:20ff. The young man said to Him, "All these commands I have kept; what am I still lacking?" Jesus said to him, "If you wish to be complete, go and sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you shall have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me."
Not when the radical right poisons all the lakes.
right........
Give a man a fire and he will be warm for a night, set a man on fire and he will never be cold again.
[Removed]
Psalm 37:21 "The wicked borrows and does not pay back"
That's a stretch, ace. Try Matt 25:41-45:
“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’
“They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’
“He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’
This is how Jesus judges IDIVIDUALS, people who do not help their brethren are not good people.
But forced donations, FORCED, are not they way
Being forced to give is not giving. They are two completely different things.
If you give out of your own pocket when you are not forced to is a much different thing. It is the CHOICE that will be judged
Luke 6:30: "Give to everyone who asks of you, and whoever takes away what is yours, do not demand it back."
Matthew 5:42 "Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away."
sure 1 individual to another, but i don't think Jesus condoned thievery because of jealousy.
To give when not required is the greatest gift one can give to themselves
Awesome verse. This is how Jesus judges NATIONS. Thanks!!
Look at my comment above
Proverbs 22:26-27 "Do not be a man who strikes hands in pledge or puts up security for debts; if you lack the means to pay, your very bed will be snatched from under you."
If you call yourself a Christian, I think it would be a lot easier to stick to the words of Christ.
Also: I don't think anyone here is advocating debt. In fact, most people here want to abolish debt and reform the monetary system!
If you are Christian, Proverbs is in the bible. So why should that not count equally as much as the words of jesus? And my point was to say that the bible doesn't just support debters, it also says you should pay it back
Well, first of all Jesus came as fulfillment of prophecy and part of the lineage of prophets. Christians believe that Jesus is the Son of God meaning that his words are the very teachings of God himself. As opposed to the rest of the Bible, his words are not told through priests, they are not rabbis opinion or old tales or midrash, but Jesus' words are God speaking telling you how to live. That's what it means to be a Christian. If you believe that scribblings in the Old Testament is more important or equally as important as the direct words of God then you should call yourself something else. I know that using some parts of the Old Testament to justify modern conservative beliefs is a popular thing to do these days, but if you wish to do that, you should also look into some other things that the Old Testament says:
Do you stone disobedient children to death? (Deuteronomy 21:18-21)
Do you reject meat from hybrid cattle? Do you eat crops that have only been sown according to kashrut law? Do you only wear clothes made out of one fiber? (Leviticus 19:19).
Do you support our soldiers taking sex slaves from the people whose countries we occupy? (Deuteronomy 21:10-14)
Do you support men's rights to sell their daughters into slavery? (Exodus 21:7-10)
For that matter, do you:
Refuse to take or use pictures of any thing at all? (Graven images?) (Deut:5:8)
Keep the Sabbath (Saturday!) holy? (Deut:5:14)
Picking and choosing passages that affirm a certain Economic-Political philosophy is all nice and good, but doesn't really stand up much to a logical test.
No, the teaching of Jesus are directly from the son of god. The prophets of the Old Testimate spoke the direct work of god. And with out those "Scibblings", the new testimate ammounts to a hill of beans.
I don't think anyone out side of the middle east stones people.
I eat USDA "prime" meat which is by law kosher. And I eat bear taht is, by coincedence kosher as well as corn and rice which are also kosher. I buy only 100% cotton shirts and 100% wool socks.
No I wouldn't support bringing back arabs as slave though I don't think we do...
Do I think arranged marrages are cool? Not really but who am I to say that it's wrong. That one, you are confusing the "slavery" of marrige with actual slavery
I take pictures, but that is not the same as making idols out of them.
Yes I do keep the sabath holy, I got to church, eat with my family and them return home and catch up on news and whatnot.
So why do my quote not stand up but the quote of OWS do? This makes no sence to me.
I find it very hard to believe that you don't wear anything that has polyester or mixed fibers in it. Do you eat shellfish? Do you eat battered anything? Meat is not supposed to be mixed with milk in bowls. So you don't do anything on Saturday? Look to Kashrut law to find out what keeping it holy really means. I see that you're making exceptions about graven images...God's word not enough for you? God said no graven images - at all. Not whether or not they are idols.
So you're downgrading Jesus to something less than God...Now he's only God's son. I guess you don't ascribe to the idea of the Holy Trinity. I think you should just drop the other shoe and become a Zionist Jew.
I don't. I haven't worn polyester since I was a little kid. Just one of those things. I only but 100%. I eat fish but I haven't really teird shellfish. I don't mix meat with milk... that doesn't even sounds good.
"You shall not make for yourself an idol, or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth. 9 You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, and on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me, "
And his is just God's son. The words directly from God go above Jesus always. It goes, God, Jesus, the prophets, and the cleargy on Earth. And by prophets, I mean not what God tells them to say, but their actions and what they say when god isn't, excuse the analogy, whispering in thier ear. Personally, I never got what the Holy Spirt was but Even wn the Holy Trinity, Jesus sits besides his father, he is not his father. Any more than I am my father.
and excuse me?
So you are saying clearly that you think Jesus is less important than the Old Testament. That makes you a Jew, not a Christian. There's nothing wrong with that, I'm just saying you should be going to Synagogue, not Church.
Acts 15 does not says that the gentiles can be saved becuase they believe. That just mean that you don't have to be "one of God's chosen people" in order to accend into heven. adn even if we take your interpritation, even if we don't have to follow the other laws to be save, does that not still make them the word of god and does that not mean that we should follow them?
Sure, follow Mosaic law if you wish, it's just that it isn't relevant to salvation. the Jews are the experts on the Mosaic laws, and they say that the Gentiles should follow what are called the Noachide laws to keep pure in the eyes of God.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Laws_of_Noah
I think that those are pretty reasonable.
American Christianity focuses so much on holiness, Puritanism, laws and rules, they loose the heart of their religion, the most important laws of all: Mathew 22:37-39 and John 13:34
I would suggest that if you are genuniely interested in Mosaic law, you should learn about it from a bonified Rabbi, who would have a lot of important things to tell you about it. The Rabbinic work is not to be trifled with and is full of great scholarship - it gives the best of what Judaism has to offer.
So the words of God are less important than Jesus? does that make sence to you? In the Bible everything is "as important". All of it is the words of God. You think that Jesus said things that are against the original words of God but he didn't. He was himself a rabbi and follwed/preached the old Testimate. You are the confused one. You look at only the parts of the bible that you want. I look at it all and relized that it is all two sides of the same coin. You look at it and refuse to believe that there is a second side, one that isn't just love your neighrbor but one that says things like care for your family, pay your debts, and everything else.
Are you for or against lieing?
You're only looking at the parts of the Bible you want. If you truly believe that the whole Bible is the word of God, then I think Acts 15:7-24 and 21:25 completely settle everything here. Let me spell it out for you: Unless you are a Jew you do not have to do anything to be saved other than:
Acts 15:10-12 Specifically says that Gentiles need only believe to be saved. You do not need to keep Mosaic Laws. Any other discussion of Mosaic Law is being used as an excuse for one's personal sociopolitical preference.
what is so bad about it? how is it wrong?
I explained below why I am saying that. You have clearly said above that what God "tells prophets to say" is more important than what Jesus says, and then you provide your own interpretation of those words. Therefore you believe that the Old Testament is more important than the New, and furthermore, you clearly don't believe that Jesus is the Messiah. If you did, you would agree that Jesus' words are the highest of all laws.
And then you also put yourself in the chair to decide what every part of the Old Testament means. You're mostly like an Orthodox Jew, but you don't have an Oral Torah tradition. The Oral Torah enables Jews to have a compassionate and living interpretation of the Old Testament. Your interpretation is simply a mishmash of whatever laws, beliefs and platitudes you find useful to explain your political worldview. Jesus' words are inconvenient to your right-wing conservative vision, so those get thrown out and you go digging around in Old Testament for verses that support your ideas. When I confront you with OT laws that you clearly do not uphold, you dismiss them as being irrelevant.
Someone else with the same ideas as you could just as well look at passages like Deuteronomy 22:20-21, Deuteronomy 13:7-12, Deuteronomy 13:13-19, Leviticus 20:10, Leviticus 20:9, Exodus 21:15, Exodus 31:12-15 and decide that it's time to follow "God's Law" and begin killing people by the thousands. They don't have a tradition of teachings to guide them. They, like you, have just picked up the Bible and started deciding on what's more important than what. It's scary because people like you can go and pick up whatever book they find and start deciding that the most bloodthirsty passages are the most important words in the book.
I was raised a Catholic but I do not consider my self one. I thought myself many of these thigs. I realized that the church only showed part of what the bible said.
Wow, so you truly do practice your own frightening religion.
What is so strang about it?
Please I dentify for me which parts did not suit you
What church do you go to? Where have you been taught these teachings, if I may ask?
Also, Jesus did not say anything in contradiction to anything else in the Bible.
On the stealing thing, Jesus did not steal the horse, he borrowed it. Does it say any where else that he rode on it beyond his entering the city? if you read also, from Exodus 12:35-36, God comanded the Egyptianss to give their posetions and they did
No we shouldn't not steal but god told that Israelites to do it becuase the Egyptians had taken all their possetions and made them slaves. The Israelites had posetions that were stolen from them. They were taking what was/or was equivalent to theirs.
You are confusing the two types of judge. Should we judge people on their appearences or their private life, no and that is what Jesus is telling us not to do. Should we judge people in criminal cases, yes but on thier actions, not on how the look and that is what is told in corinthians.
Both parts say not to cevent. Exoodus tell us not to covent your neighbors posetions, corinthians tells us that no matter what we covent, god will always have something better for us. You should include all of the quote. "...and yet show I to you a more excellent way." Exodus tells us we shouldn't covent but Corinthians tell us why. That no matter what we have or want on this world, God offeres something worth more than any of it.
Bearing false witness is a sin, not lieing in general. Bearing false witness is to lie in a way that it causes harm to others. Rahab lie to save the israelites, the egyptian midwives lied to save the babies, The angles lied to help the Israelites from being wipped out. Lieing is it self not a sin. Is a a sin to tell your child that the is a Santa Clause? Or to tell him that babies come from a stork? No, but it is a sin to lie when your lie sends a man to jail or lets evil happen or continue.
All those quote you list for improvidence say to give to your neighbor. Timothy is saying to provide for your own befor you provide for others. Both are correct, as your family is itself a miracle of God and as such should be cared for first but if you have extra, then God says to give it to your neighbors and to those in need. as for Proverbs, it says that what is yours is your families and that when you die, you should not leave them with nothing.
I was always taught that anyone who broke the 10 commandments would serve some punishment after death. If not hell itself, a purgatory of sourts. As both coventing your neightbors wife and adultry are in the 10 comandments, they are equal. If the fact that your neightbors wife doesn't want to is the only thing that keeps you from going and sleeping with her, you are essentially commiting adultry.
You practice a strange and terrifying religion, my friend. It is not a religion of beauty or ascension, but one of hidebound equivocation and litigiousness. It is first and foremost a heartless, compassionless religion of laws, but, like earthly courts, within that lattice of laws lies just enough room to squeeze through avarice, cruelty and selfishness. Your knowledge of the Bible is highly and precisely tuned with pat answers to match your cultural values and personal worldview, allowing you to turn resolutely and unquestioningly away from humanitarian compassion and towards authoritarian selfishness and systemized judgement. It doesn't remind me at all of any kind of Judaism I know of, nor does it remind me of the message of Christ. It is something new and horrifying altogether.
A religion like yours is the death of all hope in humanity and a reflection of the purest darkness of man's soul. It reminds me of the Catholicism practiced during the Spanish Inquisition. It is the religion of brutal police states, prison camps, armies, and cruel orders of men bent on ruling the world with an iron fist.
I hope that there are not many like you, but I fear that there are. You frighten me.
Just an aside, but I feel like I'm reading the Lolcat Bible here...
I'm saying the New and Old Testimates are equally as important
So then when you compare Exodus 21:22-24, Leviticus 24:19-20 and Deuteronomy 19:18-21 with Proverbs 20:22 and Matthew 5:38-39, which approach do you take? Do you weigh them numerically (3 against 2) or what? If everything is equally important, how do you deal with things that Jesus says that are contradicted in Kashrut law?
Should we steal? (Exodus 20:15 & Leviticus 19:13) Stealing is absolutely forbidden. Yet, Exodus 3:21-22, 12:35-36 & Luke 19:29-34 all promote stealing.
Should we judge? Jesus is quoted in Matthew 7:1-2: “Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged.” Also see Luke 6:37 & 1 Corinthians 5:12. Now take a look at “Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment” (John 7:24). Also note 1 Corinthians 5:12 & 6:2-4.
Should we covet? Exodus 20:17 says, “Thou shalt not covet . . . anything that is thy neighbor’s,” while 1 Corinthians 12:31 says, “Covet earnestly the best gifts.” So, are we or are we not to covet?
Is lying okay? Exodus 20:16. Proverbs 12:22 & Revelations 21:8 all say lying is forbidden. Joshua 2:4-6, Exodus 1:18-20 & 1 Kings 22:21-22 all support lying.
What about Improvidence? Improvidence is enjoined in Luke 12:3 “Sell that ye have and give alms.” also in Luke 6:30 & 35 “Give to every man that asketh of thee, and of him that taketh away thy goods, ask them not again ... And lend, hoping for nothing again, and your reward shall be great.” Also note Matthew 6:28, 31 & 34. Improvidence is condemned in I Timothy 5:8 “But if any provide not for his own, and especially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel. “ Also see Proverbs 13:22.
Jesus has a punishment even worse than his father concerning adultery: God said the act of adultery was punishable by death. Jesus says looking with lust is the same thing and you should gouge your eye out, better a part, than the whole. The punishment under Jesus is an eternity in Hell. (Matthew 5:27)
Luke 6:20-21. Blessed are you who are poor, for yours in the kingdom of God. Blessed are you who hunger now, for you shall be satisfied. Blessed are you who weep now, for you shall laugh.
AND BTW! Proverbs don't come anywhere near being as important as the word of JESUS. WOW. Jesus was a hippie and a socialist! If you can't accept that, and follow his words, then you are a hypocrite! lol.
Deut. 15:7. If there is a poor man among you, one of your brothers, in any of the towns of the land which the LORD your God is giving you, you shall not harden your heart, nor close your hand to your poor brother; but you shall freely open your hand to him, and generously lend him sufficient for his need in whatever he lacks.
Ps. 140:12. I know that the LORD will maintain the cause of the afflicted, and justice for the poor.
Obviously, that could be applied to big banks as well.
And devil bankers steal from the poor...
Isaiah 3:13-15: "The LORD rises to accuse, standing to try his people. The Lord enters into judgment with his people's elders and princes: It is you who have devoured the vineyard; the loot wrested from the poor is in your houses. What do you mean by crushing my people, and grinding down the poor when they look to you?" Isaiah 10:1-2: "Woe to those who enact unjust statutes and who write oppressive decrees, depriving the needy of judgment and robbing my people's poor of their rights."
Proverbs 22:26-27 "Do not be a man who strikes hands in pledge or puts up security for debts; if you lack the means to pay, your very bed will be snatched from under you."
That's why Islamic law and Talmudic Law generally do not allow Interest. It is INTEREST that is bad, not borrowing.
Thats cool. If the lender didn't make money on lending, he simply wouldn't. Problem solved.
Well, that's not very Christian
What's not very Christian? Making a profit? If you work, do you do it for free? If not, why?
Luke 3:11. And [John the Baptist] would answer and say to them, "Let the man with two tunics share with him who has none, and let him who has food do likewise."
Cool. So you work for free, or not at all?
Pretty much yeah. It's called minimum wage. And it is pretty much the same as working for free in a country as wealthy as the U.S. It's great that you can work full-time in a supposedly "advanced" nation and make just enough to be poor and rely on 'handouts' to survive.
Then find a better job. I have 'several' trades so I don't usually stay out of work for long. I might not always make what I normally do, but I make something until I do.
That's your solution? No wonder the conservative movement is failing. Doesn't surprise me though.
If it was that easy to get a better job, everybody would do it. Minimum wage wouldn't exist anymore.
What, you think you're going to live on minimum wage for the rest of your life? I drive trucks and run heavy equipment and rarely make under 20 an hour, often a bit more.
I don't for a minute believe you can't find a better paying job. I have to travel sometimes, but I make sure it's worth it for me or won't. Something always pops up.
Out in the shale play right now, they can't find enough people to work what they have, and the economy isn't so good.
Mt. 19:20ff. The young man said to Him, "All these commands I have kept; what am I still lacking?" Jesus said to him, "If you wish to be complete, go and sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you shall have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me."
And yet again, you never answered the question. Interesting. Bye bye.
No need too. If better jobs were so abundant everybody would have them.
Luke 1:52ff. [Mary's Magnificat.] "He has brought down rulers from their thrones, and has exalted those who were hungry. He has filled the hungry with good things; and sent away the rich empty-handed."
Ezek. 22:29,31. "The people of the land have practiced oppression and committed robbery, and they have wronged the poor and needy and have oppressed the sojourner without justice... Thus I have poured out My indignation on them; I have consumed them with the fire of My wrath; their way I have brought upon their heads," declares the Lord GOD.
GR, so far, all you have are proverbs. Which don't count for squat really. I'm using pretty much all actual bible verses, and have totally trashed you. The bible does not justify selfishness like you and your conservative buddies practice (and encourage). You might as well give up the whole Christian thing...it's obviously not meant for you and you seem to have no desire to be an actual Christian. I mean sure, you might hang out with them at church, but you are not truly one of them. Jesus loved poor people. No if's, and's or but's about it.
Luke 16:19-25. "Now there was a certain rich man, and he habitually dressed in purple and fine linen, gaily living in splendor every day. And a certain poor man named Lazarus was laid at his gate, covered with sores, and longing to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table; besides, even the dogs would come and lick his sores. Now it came about that the poor man died and he was carried away by the angels to Abraham's bosom; and the rich man also died and was buried. And in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes, and saw Abraham far away, and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried out and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool off my tongue; for I am in agony in this flame.' But Abraham said, 'Child, remember that during your life you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus bad things; but now he is being comforted here, and you are in agony...'"
I'll send you home to cry with this final verse.
Is. 58:66ff. Is this not the fast which I choose, to loosen the bonds of wickedness, to undo the bands of the yoke, and to let the oppressed go free, and break every yoke? Is it not to divide your bread with the hungry, and bring the homeless poor into the house; when you see the naked, to cover him, and not to hide yourself from your own flesh?
Deut. 26:5-9. The Egyptians treated us harshly and afflicted us, and imposed hard labor on us. Then we cried to the LORD, the God of our fathers, and the LORD heard our voice and saw our affliction and our toil and our oppression; and the LORD brought us out of Egypt with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm and with great terror and with signs and wonders; and He has brought us to... this land flowing with milk and honey.
You want to think America is the land of Egypt? I emplore you, go and leave, find a country out side of America where you can do no work and still get paid, houses and fed? Please do go
Last time I checked that wasn't possible in America. I should know. I work full time for minimum wage and am still poor. Faux News done told you wrong again! BIG SURPRISE THERE! lol!
Oooh ouch. Good one.
Beat me to it.
How about Deuteronomy 15:1-2 "At the end of every seven years you must cancel debts. This is how it is to be done: Every creditor shall cancel any loan they have made to a fellow Israelite. They shall not require payment from anyone among their own people, because the LORD’s time for canceling debts has been proclaimed."
OK, so the Jews can forgive each others debt?
This was the law for an ideal society based on common bonds of brotherhood/sisterhood. It is the basis of our bankruptcy laws (before they were trashed by the credit card companies), allowing forgiveness of debts every 7 years. I think it is an interesting guideline, demonstrating that even the so-called angry G-d of the Old Testament cared deeply about relieving people's indebtedness.
Is this before or after we had the debtors prisons. Remember those?
Yes, indeed! That would seem to be deviation from the forgiving attitude of G-d!
Christians love to use the first testament as justification for their beliefs, but once people begin quoting it they are always quick to disavow it. Using such logic, your book is old and stale and the Mormon's book is the one that should be used.
Ah, the Mormons actually have THREE books, plus the King James (and ONLY the King James) Bible.
BTW, it's the New Testament or Old Testament.
Micah 2:1-3: "Woe to those who plan iniquity, and work out evil on their couches; in the morning light they accomplish it when it lies within their power. They covet fields, and seize them; houses, and they take them. They cheat an owner of his house, a man of his inheritance."
But god said that you might loose your house is you accept loans. He might say not to laon but he doesn't seam to like the person who accepts loans either
Perhaps, he prefers that we just give away what we have instead of loaning it. Jesus' words: "Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back." Acts 2:45: "They sold property and possessions to give to anyone who had need."
He says we should but he is also telling us what to do and what might happen if we don't. God tells us not to kill but he also tells us what happens when people that do and when it is ok to do it
Lev. 19:19ff. Now when you reap the harvest of your land, you shall not reap to the very corners of your field, neither shall you gather the gleanings of your harvest. Nor shall you glean your vineyard, nor shall you gather the fallen fruit of your vineyard; you shall leave them for the needy and for the stranger. I am the LORD your God.
And BTW, god never said anything like that. He says don't kill, PERIOD. You either follow that command, or you burn in hell. Your choice. But once again, it proves that you twist the words of the bible into whatever way you want, which is typical of hypocrites and liars.
Personally the way you sneer at me in many posts, is proof that you detest the poor. And detest the so called handouts they receive from the government. And that selfishness on your part is out of line with what the bible says.
He said don't murder. He is fine will kiling. Have yo ever read the old testimate? Joshua? Kings? Any of them? God says to kill and his followers stand up and ask him how many.
And dear god do I detest hand outs. People can work. I'm fine with healping the crippled, with subsadizing medicine for the poor but giveing them everything they need so that the could never have to wokr a day in their lifes is not what the Bible says to do. It says to help the poor, not give them a free ride
Luke 14:12-14. "When you give a luncheon or a dinner, do not invite your friends or your brothers or your relatives or rich neighbors, lest they also invite you in return, and repayment come to you. But when you give a reception, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, the blind, and you will be blessed, since they do not have the means to repay you; for you will be repaid at the resurrection of the righteous."
Deut. 26:12. When you have finished paying the complete tithe of your increase in the third year, the year of tithing, then you shall give it to the Levite, to the stranger, to the orphan and the widow, that they may eat in your towns, and be satisfied.
SORRY GR. But you can't twist the words of the bible to mean whatever you want them to. According to Christian beliefs, God was hugely in favor of the POOR! The very people you sneer and spit at. The very people Glen Beck and Rush L. ridicules.
I'm not twisting the words of the bible, they are right there. As I told you, god says to help the poor not give them everything
Prov. 31:8ff. [Commandment to kings.] Open your mouth for the dumb, for the rights of all the unfortunate. Open your mouth, judge righteously, and defend the rights of the afflicted and needy.
Stop failing. Get to work.