Forum Post: Abolish the Monetary System?
Posted 12 years ago on Oct. 16, 2011, 5:09 p.m. EST by Cindy
(197)
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Why would we abolish a system that has worked so well for so long?
Why would we abolish a system that allows me to know that I am superior or inferior to others based on what I can afford? Where will my self worth come from if not through this system?
How do I know that my needs and desires will be met if no monetary system?
How do I know that anyone will do anything if money isn't the reward?
You really think a world of compassion, love, creativity, sharing and cooperating is something we are intelligent and intuitive enough to carry off?
How about just passing a Bill in Congress or reform the system? Can't we just tweak the system a little? Can't we just take money out of Politics? Won't that solve the problems? Can't we just put a fair cap on the interest a credit card company can charge? What if we fix the health care issue with just a little more time?
Abolish the Monetary System......wow.....that's radical.....that would be a revolution or something.
Is this really what the 99% wants? Why?
Next think you know we won't even be having wars because there's no reason if there is no monetary reason.....God dammit.....All the things I love....down the drain.
In Utopia all greed for money was entirely removed with the use of money. What a mass of troubles was then cut away! What a crop of crimes was then pulled up by the roots! Who does not know that fraud, theft, rapine, quarrels, disorders, brawls, seditions, murders, treasons, poisonings, which are avenged rather than restrained by daily executions, die out with the destruction of money? Who does not know that fear, anxiety, worries, toils, and sleepless nights will also perish at the same time as money? What is more, poverty, which alone money seemed to make poor, forthwith would itself dwindle and disappear if money were entirely done away with everywhere. — Saint Thomas More, Utopia, 1516
But this system really works for me so can't we just keep it please? I mean, not everyone is saying Utopia with the demise of money. I guess there would still be human problems you know.
Don't fear, for thirty years I've been teaching the gospel of eliminating money and many famous/wise ppl have advocated eliminating money and no one listens.
In fact, jesus h. christ -- the one who upset the tables of the moneychangers and sent his disciples out without money said, "U can't serve god & money . . . "but the Pharisees (and "Christians") who loved money heard all this and scoffed." -- Luke 16 http://666ismoney.com/MoneyQuotes.html
I know, I've heard this is an age old problem....Whew...maybe it will be solved at some point.
It will be resolved when Babylon falls and we have a Mad Max economy, maybe then ppl will realize money is unnecessary and with abundance bartering & hoarding will disappear as well.
end interest payments. A countrys government should not have to pay interest to a private bank! (direct response to poster)
a private bank should not have control of the money supply of a nation. the value money should based on the GDP and the consumer price index. IN other words! money should = valuable work. and not made out of thin air like derivites, interest payments, etc
that is the sick world of commerce that we live in: Nike, ( sweatshops) Ralph Lauren, (same) hedge fund managers (profiting off the loss of foreign economies) and oil fuckers ( fucking up the earth and throwing carbon dioxide into the atmosphere, fucking up the temperature of the planet. that is what we really live in, that is the real world--brought to you, by the almighty dollar This shit has got to go! and be replaced with a system that is sustainable, efficient, not wasteful and humane. So be it. check out thezeitgeistmovement.com
This movement has been TRICKED! http://www.forbes.com/forbes-400/list/
Examine this list just recently published by Forbes (they do it every year) and tell me WHY you are "Occupying Wall Street" when NONE of the CEOs or Banks even make the top 20 of the "Wealthiest People in America" list?????
The Forbes list comprises the ACTUAL 400 wealthiest people-the REAL 1%....so WHY did your organizers pick WALL STREET???
oh man.looks like they're gonna have to start all over. Or well, I'm telling you they want to scrap the whole monetary system so then it won't really matter who is richer than who.....Imagine
Hmmm, funny isn't it? No money, no issues. What a concept....
Are you living in your own kinda Idaho?
I just realized if there was no Monetary system we'd have to figure out a big shredding thing for all the money stuff. Receipts and bills and all the rest. This could end up a big problem.
Better yet, create your own banks as Bank Owner-Voters, for many more people will come to your side when you are proactive (for “new” Business & Government solutions), instead of reactive (against “old” Business & Government solutions), which is why what we most immediately need is a comprehensive “new” strategy that implements all our various socioeconomic demands at the same time, regardless of party, and although I'm all in favor of taking down today's ineffective and inefficient Top 10% Management System of Business & Government, there's only one way to do it – by fighting bankers as bankers ourselves; that is, using a Focused Direct Democracy organized according to our current Occupations & Generations. Consequently, I have posted a 1-page Summary of the Strategically Weighted Policies, Organizational Operating Structures, and Tactical Investment Procedures necessary to do this at:
http://getsatisfaction.com/americanselect/topics/on_strategic_legal_policy_organizational_operational_structures_tactical_investment_procedures
Join
http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/StrategicInternationalSystems/
because we need 100,000 “support clicks” at AmericansElect.org to support a Presidential Candidate -- such as any given political opportunist you'd like to draft -- in support of the above bank-focused platform.
Most importantly, remember, as cited in the first link, that as Bank Owner-Voters in your 1 of 48 "new" Business Investment Groups (or "new" Congressional Committees) you become the "new" Congress replacing the "old" Congress according to your current Occupation & Generation, called a Focused Direct Democracy.
Therefore, any Candidate (or Leader) therein, regardless of party, is a straw man, a puppet; it's the STRATEGY – the sequence of steps – that the people organize themselves under, in Military Internet Formation of their Individual Purchasing & Group Investment Power, that's important. In this, sequence is key.
Why? Because there are Natural Social Laws – in mathematical sequence – that are just like Natural Physical Laws, such as the Law of Gravity. You must follow those Natural Social Laws or the result will be Injustice, War, etc.
The FIRST step in Natural Social Law is to CONTROL the Banks as Bank Owner-Voters. If you do not, you will inevitably be UNJUSTLY EXPLOITED by the Top 10% Management Group of Business & Government who have a Legitimate Profit Motive, just like you, to do so.
Consequently, you have no choice but to become Candidates (or Leaders) yourselves as Bank Owner-Voters according to your current Occupation & Generation.
So please JOIN the 2nd link so we can make our support clicks at AmericansElect.org when called for, at exactly the right time, by an e-mail from that group, in support of the above the bank-focused platform. If so, then you will see and feel how your goals can be accomplished within the above strategy as a “new” Candidate (or Leader) of your current Occupation & Generation.
yep, that sounds like a real plan! And atki...there is an island near where I live called alki....like atki just one letter different.
Glad you like it, but it won't happen without people, so I hope you join the rest of us at the 2nd link cited, for there are always long-term alternatives to short-term problems, if we know where to find each other, right?
there are so many answers it seems. I might have to sleep on it and thanks for the invite.....
I always sleep on it too. In fact, I have been working on the above Business Analysis over the past 27 years as a Marine, Certified Public Accountant, Computer Programmer, and Socioeconomic Analyst, and have had many a sleepless night over it, for what I've said so far is only the tip of the iceberg in our 48 Tactical Investment Procedures, so sleep well.
well like, how much wood would a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood? Sometimes I have to think about that too ya know. And also, thank you for the time you have spent with your brain in figuring stuff out.
Let's use compost as a basis for the dollar. Sorry, I am not really serious about that. But actually, why do people only consider gold or silver? It could be something else, like debt....What's that? Debt is not a commodity, you say? Yes it is. We are in a debt based economy right now. We have about $100T in assets and there is only $2T in cash in the economy. So when you pay someone for a good or service, there is a 98% chance that are you are taking on his or her debt in return for that good or service, as opposed to actually giving him or her a bona-fide dollar of cash, it is actually probably just debt represented by a $1 bill.
Yeah, maybe a similar system. But to completely Abolish the money idea....wow....why a revolution now? Just when I was beginning to get so comfortable in so many ways...darn it
At the moment there are 8,164 signatories in 136 countries since March 5, 2011 that belive it: http://freeworldcharter.org/?a=list
They are not so much in the world but 2158 are from US http://freeworldcharter.org/?a=map
Oh god....you young people. Grrrrrrrr. You'll get me all mixed up if you start changing everything on me.
Thank for young people :) I am 46, a family I love, I have a job, not the one I wish, but a job, a hause. I am a lucky 99%. I belive we could live without monetary system. For it is just a useful tool to reach a target. Once we have the target in our hands and the tool hurts, it time to drop it. The concept is: money has a value in your hands as long as I decide to give a value to it.
You sound smart. I think I love you or maybe like you a lot. And of course, married. Just my luck.Maybe someone in my town is smart like you and available. but they'd probably think I'm not smart enough to love. :(
So many compliments...Do you want me to stop talking? You are really funny, I think I love you too or maybe I like you lot ; ) Sure no to be a male?
That's weird cause they was talking about homophobia at the rally too. Just when I think I know at least a gender thing they try to change that on me too. They might just be trying to totally mess with me head.
Great thread! I wish more people would realize that our current system is obsolete. Great reply RastafariAmerican!
There they go again.....obsolete....I heard that word being thrown around a lot at the rally yesterday. I just don't know what we can do without the paper and plastic monies. Do you?
Yes, I think a resource based economy may work or at least be a model. The link that ZeitgeistMovement posted below is a pretty good documentary about it. Lengthy, but well worth a watch.
there's probably alternatives I guess. I'm not sure how far and wide or creative we could get in trying to think up a new way that takes all the people into consideration. Like all the talents and gifts that people may have that I suppose aren't learned inside of a system. Hmmm....what a mess
Or, the system...should be abolished!
we have lost sight that the resources exist to provide for the people of the United States
while some work is necessary to distribute these resources
the great balk of work is not
people don't need to work
they still want to work
to pursue projects that would enrich their lives
unfortunately many are unable to do that
because they must work for money
Oh, I didn't think of that. You mean the system is like a prison for a creative intelligent caring loving individual who may have special talents to offer greatness to our country but doesn't seem to have a chance in this monetary system? Well buck up....we're all in this together, right?
Or, Does the buck stop here......like literally?
people need to be able to organize their efforts
great projects are achieved (like the mapping of the genome)
money has been a system where people agree to work with each other
Yeah and surely the people wouldn't want to work together for anything without money. The lazy bums.
people like working together
civilization would not exist if they didn't
Oh. Did someone tell you that or did you read it? Was it just an individual observation cuz I'm not sure if those count.
perhaps someone should post an example
Well, I heard of this crazy idea of volunteer society.....that's sooooo weird. Would you volunteer to participate in a society? I mean we're sorta here because our parents did the nasty and I guess this system was already in place....but
Are you trying to say that we don't need 400 billion different shirts in every color to look our best cause I'm not sure about it. I'm not sure if we should cut back or add more nail salons?
twas merely a muse on eggs
perhaps being careful not to break them
I think people like color in there lives
Right
Congress got us into this mess, the Senate is millionaire's club = the 1% -- establish technocracy.
We don't need politicians or money, half the ppl in U$A work at unnecessary jobs (cashier, insurance, bankers, etc.).
The $ystem is broken and can't be put back together.
With peak oil, global warming, geometric world population growth and the funny-money, we're doomed.
Babylon will fall and then we won't have any money.
Barter & hoarding is unnecessary with abundance.
http://666ismoney.com/MoneyQuotes.html
Kinda sorta seems like Humpty Dumpty. Humpty Dumpty sat on a wall.
Humpty Dumpty had a great fall.
All the kings horses and all the kings men couldn't put Humpty together again.
Damn, I hate when that happens.
ever blow an Egg
where a pinhole is punctured at the top and the bottom of the egg
and the yoke is forced out by gently blowing into the shell
the result is a hollow egg with shell intact
YES, that is so cool.
I guess it is possible to have an omelet with out breaking the egg
or a poached egg on toast even
Yes, I think of it that way.
Uh Oh....
Life as we're living it is unsustainable, I have little faith in scientists (or politicians) to come up with a solution to peak oil (or the economy). My older sister, who is an expert on peak oil sees no solution. She expects it to collapse in 4-years.
Lol...you are awesome
You're pulling my leg.??
No...real talk...wtz ur story?
This is about you!
The movement's claim of 99% is hogwash. There are less than 1% who agree with them. It's not perfect, nor will it ever be, but we have the greatest country and system on earth. I wish others were more appreciative.
Yes, I agree. This system is really working so well for everyone. I'm not sure why they can't see it......Hmmm? Boggles the mind really. the majority surely must love this current system.
Lol...
How can you say that, when you yourself can attend a General Assembly and make your voice heard? Everyone can do this. Therefore it represents not just the 99%, but the 100%. It is all inclusive. If you're hearing particular view points you don't agree with, how is this any different than another random group of people? That's real democracy - messy, diverse, but fair.
I have attended a few of the rallies because I like to know what is going on and see it with my own eyes. Ummm. In all honesty and I do respect the goings on but there was a forty five minute discussion about Porta Potties at one of these Assemblies, no lie. It ran as slow as the Congress channel on tv. See why I don't have a tv anymore?
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Money is simply a means of exchange. The problem is it's creation and control rest in very few hands - primarily the Fed and other Central Banks and Investment houses. The solution is to radically democratize and decentralize the creation and distribution of money. No one person or group should ever have control over it or we'll end up in the same mess we're in now.
Yeah that's right, did you see the Occupy Sesame Street piece?
Mises.org
We need more people who understand austrian economics. Too bad everyone grew up in schools were they taught keynesian views....
Yes. A different economic sytsem. I knew the answer was out there! Thank you. When I see the babies in the bellies of ladies at the mall I put my hand over my heart and say a new economic system will come for you. We are about economy my child and you are so lucky to live within an economic society because.....if not.....well....i don't know. I'm at a loss to think what we'd do with no economic system but that's how they be talking at these revolution protests man. Scary really.
I think the revolution began july, 12, 2008. And now its hitting the streets. First with the ill informed angry but not correct in their direction. ?But when the monetary bubble bursts as all bubbles have, austrian economics will prove correct again in predicting the fallacy of paper currency. Then the masses will revolt against government not business. Its real scary!
"Can't we all just get along"?_Rodney King
lol
Reduce the principal on all single family residential mortgages in the U.S. to current market value....regardless of what bank attempts to make fraudulent ownership intrest attempts through the assistance of the judicial system and politrickans!
Okay so keep the system with just a little tweaking. Yeah
I'm assuming you mean the Federal Reserve System? In any case, it isn't the monetary system that got us in this mess, it's the people who run it. I would blame bad judgment and corruption for our current predicament. We don't need to abolish the system, but it could do with some adjustment or reform. And a way to keep corporate greed out of it.
Yeah man. It's working for me. Maybe a watchdog group that could overlook the whole system making it more fair especially for me.
I don't know if that's supposed to be sarcastic or what.
All I'm saying is our monetary system has worked for us for decades and it's only relatively recently that it is failing us, likely due in part to deregulation and corruption.
This isn't an attack on the rich. There is nothing wrong with being rich. There is a problem with being rich and stealing from the poor. There is a problem with few people controlling the wealth, and to that end there is a problem when those who control the wealth are not helping their country and society progress.
David Walker, former US Comptroller General and chief of the GAO, warned before the 2004 election that if large economic changes were not made, by 2009 the United States and its taxpayers would not be able to afford the interest payments on the national debt. A study authorized by the US Treasury in 2001 found that in order to keep servicing the debt at its current rate of growth, by 2013 income taxes would need to be raised to 65%. If the United States cannot afford to pay the interest on its debts, that would be the final stage of economic collapse and hence result in a total textbook bankruptcy. The systematic crisis would in turn spread to the rest of the world.
How did this happen? Why is the US national debt $14,819,350,000+? Of the 203 countries in the world today, only four (!) do not owe others money. The collective external debt of all the governments in the world is now above 40 trillion dollars and this number doesn’t include the massive about of household debt in each country.
The whole world is basically bankrupt. But how? How can the world as a whole owe money to itself? Obviously, it’s all nonsense. There is no such thing as ‘money’. There are only planetary resources, human labor and human ingenuity. The monetary system regulated by Federal Reserve is nothing more than a game… and an outdated and dysfunctional one at that. Those in positions of social power alter the rules of the game, at will. The nature of those rules is guided by the same competitive, distorted mentalities that are used in everyday “monetary” life, only this time the game is rigged at its root to favor those who run the show. For example, if you have 1 million dollars and put it into a CD at 5% interest, you are going to generate $50,000 a year simply for that deposit. You are making money off of money itself… paper being made from other paper … nothing more - no invention - no contribution to society – no nothing. That being denoted, if you are a lower to middle class person, who is limited in funds, and must get interest based loans to buy your home or use credit cards, then you are paying interest to the bank, which the bank is then using, in theory, to pay the person’s return with the 5% CD! Not only is this equation outrageously offensive due to the use of usury (interest) to ‘steal from the poor and give to the rich’, but it also perpetuates class stratification by its very design, keeping the lower classes poor, under the constant burden of debt, while keeping the upper classes rich, with the means to turn excess money into more money, with no labor. That reality aside, there are other games in the system which have worked for decades, but are just now starting to bloom into the inevitable mathematic disasters that should have been anticipated 100 years ago. The point is, our system is broken. Simple policy change will not solve our debt problem. We need to alter the governmental paradigm if we wish to repay our debt. We need to end the Federal Reserve Board.
This is not a liberal or conservative issue. This is a matter of upholding the Constitution. Congress gave over the power of the purse in 1913 to a quasi-public-private bank called the Federal Reserve which manipulates global currencies. This is wholeheartedly unconstitutional, and at this point it's become immoral.
Eliminate the Electoral College.
Hold a RECALL ELECTION with campaign finance reform: Get the current, illegitimate government OUT!
Hold a CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION: Bring the Constitution BACK! (END THE FEDERAL RESERVE BOARD)
RECONSTRUCT both FEDERAL and STATE GOVERNMENTS to reflect the United States of America: 50 states, with 50 economies, and 50 governments!
Gather team of economists to reconstruct the banking industry: Get rid of those who are too big to fail. Bring back local banks!
Gather a team of economists to reconstruct the healthcare industry: Universal healthcare!
Gather a team of social engineers to meet until WORLD PEACE is achieved: PEACE IS POSSIBLE!
Is there something unconstitutional about placing a monetary value on the head of each individual in this crazy world?
Some people seem to be thinking placing a monetary value on humans is a mixed up way to live with mother nature.....Idk....I don't know
Beautifully said. Love this list...