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Forum Post: A history lesson and a question

Posted 5 years ago on Feb. 7, 2013, 9:41 p.m. EST by ericweiss (575)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

The history:

On the afternoon of August 30, 1780, General Benedict Arnold sold the defense plans to the American fort at West Point to the British spy Major John Andre for 20,000 pounds.
If the plans had arrived in the hands of the British generals, the fort would have been captured and hundreds of Americans would have been killed or captured. Fortunately, Major Andre was caught before turning over the plans that he got from Gen. Arnold.

The question:

If you were General George Washington – the commander responsible for the security of America – and you found out that Gen. Arnold was delivering the West Point plans to Maj. Andre on August 30 , 1780 in a tavern in Toronto, Canada would you launch a drone attack at that tavern in Canada?
Or would you let hundreds of Americans die & let West Point fall to the British?



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[-] 1 points by ericweiss (575) 5 years ago

Sadly, war has always had innocents killed.
It may not be pleasing to acknowledge that fact.
We have been brought up on a culture with the bad guy & the good guy both having a "chance" with a revolver on the street of a texas town.
Somehow the drone seems like a nefarious stab in the back and it turns our stomach.

If you are against all war, I can respect that. But if you see all of the terrorist attacks - targeted against civilians all around the world- as something we should deal with, we cannot invade the countries with thousands of troops to get a few dozen terrorists.

It is an inconvenient truth that drones:
are MORE likely to kill the "bad" guys
are LESS likely to kill innocents
do NOT risk American lives.

Again - if you believe the terrorists, such as the Mumbai bombers, should not be attacked - I understand that.
BUT - what would YOU do about General Arnold in the OP? If you could shoot down one of the planes that hit the WTC on 911, would you?

I believe that the drone "system" should be controlled by the military - just like all of our other weapons & rockets.

Hundreds of thousands of Americans joined the traitors called the confederacy, and we killed them. Not pleasant to consider - but it is an historical fact.

Actions via targetting Americans - whenever possible - should be approved by a FISA type court as a check and balance

We can be disgusted that the world has changed - and we do not have a nation to attack like Germany or Japan and that our enemy is a religiously suicidal network of a few thousand people spread around the world.

again- would you blow up that tavern? or the 911 planes?
or are you afraid to honestly answer these very difficult questions.

Now here is the really difficult part -
can you express your opinion on this WITHOUT ATTACKING ME.

[-] 1 points by WSmith (2698) from Cornelius, OR 5 years ago

Assuming you could get the drone fueled up and electricity for the remote control, the number of terror and fright-induced heart attacks of American soldiers watching the drone take off could equal the number of lives it would save, making it a wash. What if we just executed Boner and McTurtle for treason by musket firing squad?

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 5 years ago

our terrorist government can decide you are a threat to national security and may kill you without explanation. so keep your mouth shut

[-] 1 points by WSmith (2698) from Cornelius, OR 5 years ago

they are coming for you

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 5 years ago

the people won't tolerate it

so the government should stop asking permission

[-] 1 points by repubsRtheprob (1209) 5 years ago

We might set up a special court to create fair due process for Americans who join our enemies & fight against us.

Is that a good thing?

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 5 years ago

these issues should be handled publicly

[-] 2 points by repubsRtheprob (1209) 5 years ago

Not likely part of the plan. Whatever the plan it won't be adequate. We gotta just end the damn drone strikes


[-] 1 points by Narley (272) 5 years ago

Nope, too messy. Use a Canuck sniper.

[-] 1 points by repubsRtheprob (1209) 5 years ago

But definitely kill 'em? No trial?

[+] -6 points by chuckuschumer (-366) 5 years ago

I would have had my blue coats flown in by stealth copters armed with M4/AR-15's with 30 round mags waiting for him. Capture the traitor and waterboard him in the Potomac.

If George Washington was like Obama we would still be British subjects.

[-] 3 points by ericweiss (575) 5 years ago

can you ever post anything without blaming Obama?

[-] -1 points by chuckuschunner (-6) 5 years ago

Obama is not even one of us!

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 5 years ago


[-] -3 points by chuckuschumer (-366) 5 years ago

As long as Obama is to blame the answer is no.

[-] 2 points by inclusionman (7064) 5 years ago

Kinda partisan, simplistic, and dishonest. You must know that your opinion is most likely dismissed as such by intelligent people. No?

[-] 0 points by chuckuschunner (-6) 5 years ago

dont tell me that you trust progressives?

[-] 2 points by inclusionman (7064) 5 years ago

I AM progressive but trust is not required in any event. i believe in pushing progressive/socialist agenda and being watchful as it is implemented.

What does trust have to do with anything?

I suppose I could agree to "trust but verify" (was that a progressive who said that? LOL)

[-] -2 points by chuckuschumer (-366) 5 years ago

Regardless of what opinion I post it's dismissed because of the simplistic,partisan and dishonest nature of the vast majority of Democrat/Progressive participants of this Forum. Yes?

[-] 3 points by inclusionman (7064) 5 years ago

I find progressives/Democrats to be tolerant, understanding, thoughtful, fairminded people who frequently criticize Democrats (who aren't progressive/socialist enough) as often as they criticize Republicans.

So no. I disagree that the vast majority of Democrat/progressive participants are simplistic, partisan, and dishonest. I certainly never see them focus all criticism on 1 politician.

Our problems are clearly more complex and long standing. Right?

What is different about President Obama from all previous Presidents. Hmmmmm. I'll have to think about that.

[-] 0 points by chuckuschunner (-6) 5 years ago

progressives are dogmatic & catatonic

[-] 1 points by inclusionman (7064) 5 years ago

Every single one? Seems a bit general. Are you sure your own conservative partisanship hasn't clouded your judgment.?

[-] -2 points by chuckuschumer (-366) 5 years ago

I find most progressives/Democrats to be closed minded,dogmatic Ideologues who are neither tolerant or fair minded.

"I certainly never see them focus all criticism on 1 politician"

Really? Wouldn't you call what Democrats and the MSM did to Bush from 2000 to 2008 and even beyond "focus"? I'm sure we can agree that's ALL they did was "focus" criticism whether deserved or not on Bush.

So Obama is actually getting a pass continually from his MSM and is getting away with a lot that never would have been overlooked during the Bush years. That is a fact not just opinion.

[-] 3 points by JesseHeffran (3903) 5 years ago

Whatever, dog. You're just butt hurt that we don't take your arguments to heart, and instead of polishing them and refining them you resort to name calling.

The sad part is you love to dish out pet names a character assassination for those who don't agree with you but you cry like a little child when others reciprocate.

No worries though, I know it is just a generational thing. I guess your generation just had it too good and never developed a spine or the ability to disregard name calling and stick to the crux of the issue.

[-] 2 points by inclusionman (7064) 5 years ago

I recall justified criticism of Bush (worst Pres ever?) but more on the neocon ideology that brought us trickle down, weak regulations, and endless war.

You just blame Obama (Who I also blame, but only for compromising with the extremist neocons)

Guess you can't account for perspective.

[-] -3 points by chuckuschumer (-366) 5 years ago

"I recall justified criticism of Bush"

"criticism whether deserved or not on Bush."

That's what I said.

Bush had his faults and short comings but the "worst Pres ever?"

That would be a resounding NO!!

Obama has taken that prize and is compounding bad policy with even worse while wiping his ass completely with the Constitution.

[-] 2 points by inclusionman (7064) 5 years ago

Obama must move left. Implement progressive/socialist agenda in order to correct the destructive economic inequity that Bush and his 1% oligarch cronies have imposed on the country over the last 30 years.