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Forum Post: A detailed, technically feasible explanation-2 towers down in 20 sec.

Posted 1 year ago on Sept. 12, 2012, 12:42 a.m. EST by ChristopherABrown (550) from Santa Barbara, CA
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

R.I.P. to each person that died, and love to their surviving families.

This American knows the truth and struggles to share it to protect all those of this world surviving.

http://algoxy.com/psych/9-11scenario.html

Sixteen minutes total that tells you more about the Twins with evidence than all of the others combined.

PART I-Twin Towers, Deception and Demolition http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6240504594075547308

PART II http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5255701680091399090

If you knew the truth, you too would be posting every day in support of Americans using their first right, Article V in defense of the constitution.

102 Comments

102 Comments


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[-] 4 points by nobnot (529) from Kapaa, HI 1 year ago

There goes his head again ,Back and to the Left.

[-] 3 points by nomdeguerre (1775) from Brooklyn, NY 1 year ago

There are only two kinds of people who have examined the evidence: 911truthers and 911liars.

For those who are fearful of making the truth journey, please see Psychology Experts Speak Out: “Why is the 9/11 Evidence Difficult for Some to Accept?” http://www.ae911truth.org/en/news-section/41-articles/645-psychology-experts-speak-out-why-is-the-911-evidence-difficult-for-some-to-accept-.html

[-] 0 points by MikeMcKeel (-109) 1 year ago

There is no evidence to accept. 911 Truthers have added nothing but distractions. Their theories are all hogwash based on a mountains of logical fallacies. Just a bunch of delusional lunatics who forgot to take their medication one day and started seeing Reptilian Overlords everywhere as a result.

[-] 1 points by nomdeguerre (1775) from Brooklyn, NY 1 year ago

You are entitled to think any stupid thing you wish. However I hope you are not being paid, in that case you would be guilty of being an accessory to treason, mass murder, terroristic murder, etc. after the fact.

[-] 1 points by TruthRightsFreedom (259) 1 year ago

If I'm not mistaken the OP says that the real evidence is the structure, or the fact the truthers have been completely mislead about the design. Basically a false movement.

I saw that site last year, and it bugged me then, it bugs me now. The death cetificates for 3000 people logically have to be erroneous because the agency provideing forensic analysis of collapse DID NOT HAVE THE PLANS for the buildings. Mind boggling that the truth movement is unable to notice this.

I spent about 6 months in shock after realizing the truth movement is completely deceived and refuses to get undeceived. Basically appearing to have the purpose of distributing misinformation rather than using any verified information.

[-] 1 points by nomdeguerre (1775) from Brooklyn, NY 1 year ago

You spent 6 months in shock over us poor deluded souls? You so funny.

[-] 0 points by TruthRightsFreedom (259) 1 year ago

That was about 2004. Where were you in the truth movement in '04?

The shock was divided over 2 events. One in '04, another in '06 when gage refused to support his undying belief in FEMA relating to the structural design they stated to NIST existed.

[-] 2 points by bensdad (8977) 1 year ago

towers were 414 meters tall

The TV mast and roof from the North Tower struck the ground about 11 seconds after the descent began

NO CONSPIRACY - just physics:

d = ½ gt²........where d is distance in meters.......t is time in seconds

g = 9.8m/s²

d = 4.9t²

so .

414 / 4.9 = t²

so

84.5 = t²

then the square root of 84.5 = 9.2 seconds


this does assume falling in a vacuum
which this was not -
but physics is physics

[-] 1 points by SteadyRock (63) from New York, NY 1 year ago

people with IQ below average level and most women are believed in government version with no doubt. Also you looks like a conspiracy fool to them. [ bensdad, do not respond to this, just messin]

[-] 1 points by redandbluestripedpill (333) 1 year ago

Except that things that have substantial support under them do not fall, AT ALL ever:-)

In fact it is reasonably shown that it takes immense energy to bring them down if they are shown to stand for extended periods despite rain, wind, snow, etc.

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[-] 1 points by notaneoliberal (2269) 1 year ago

The free fall theory? Not so. http://www.debunking911.com/freefall.htm

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[-] -2 points by ChristopherABrown (550) from Santa Barbara, CA 1 year ago

Notice that notaneoliberal's reference site had no feasible explanation for the total pulverization of the buildings contents. You won't have a good one either. There is only one, and you refuse to accept it.

But you must accept the firefighters testimony to the pulverized contents.

http://www.plaguepuppy.net/public_html/collapse%20update/collapsed%20to%20dust.mpg

That happened. If it happened, it can be explained. But an open mind and knowledge will be needed to accept the facts which can cause such a phenomena, and to grasp the explanation of how they were involved at the WTC.

[-] 1 points by notaneoliberal (2269) 1 year ago

From the link at the bottom ; The Concrete Is All Pulverized

What exactly did you expect? Actually photos of the site show lots of concrete, admittedly broken into small chunks. Falling 1000 feet, or having stuff fall from 1000 feet onto something else, will pulverize it.

Firefighters reported that no office furnishings were recognizable either. Did somebody rig a bomb to every single desk, chair, computer and telephone in the buildings?

Too Much Dust

From 911Research:

If the collapses were merely gravity-driven, then any clouds of debris produced in the immediate aftermath should have occupied about the same amount of space as the intact towers before they had time to significantly mix into the surrounding air. The bulk of the clouds could only come from the expulsion of gases in the buildings as they collapsed, and the mixing of ambient air into the clouds. This just makes me shake my head in wonder. First, the expulsion of air from the towers would have been pretty impressive, second, air rushing in to fill the space formerly occupied by the towers would have been equally impressive. Falling debris would also have displaced a large amount of air. Together they would have created a huge amount of turbulence, just what was seen at Ground Zero.

Actually the dust cloud at street level bore a remarkable visual resemblance to a pyroclastic flow, a hot, dense mixture of volcanic ash and gases. The dust cloud was cool, but the cloud itself was a density flow, a mixture of dust and air much denser than normal air. Density flows, whether in air or water, maintain their identity for quite a while. They stop moving when they run out of momentum, the denser parts of the flow settle out, and the lighter parts mix with the surrounding medium. Now here's a theory for conspiracy buffs to toy with - maybe someone triggered a volcanic eruption under the Twin Towers.

I should know better than to ridicule conspiracy theories on line. I simply don't have enough imagination to top what conspiracy theorists actually come up with. If you search 9-11 and "pyroclastic," you will find sites that assert the dust cloud was an actual pyroclastic flow. I could assist these folks in learning the difference. All they need to do is find an active volcano and stand in the path of a real pyroclastic flow. I guarantee it would cure them of posting nutty stuff on the intartubes.

The drywall used around the central core of the towers was an inch and a half thick. Now that will create a lot of dust.

Somehow the collapse of a quarter-mile tall building was supposed to produce no turbulence so that the dust cloud would remain over the footprint of the building and mix gradually with still air. Shades of the Road Runner, who goes "beep-beep" and leaves a road-runner shaped dust cloud behind. This is physics several levels beyond weird.

A lot of people confuse optical density with amount of dust. The fact that the dust cloud was opaque means only that light didn't penetrate it. The clouds that hung above the site weren't much denser than air so the total volume of dust in them was not large. Typical clouds in the sky contain a few grams of material per cubic meter. If we assume the 9-11 cloud had 10 grams per cubic meter - far more than even thick water droplet clouds, and the dust cloud occupied a cubic kilometer, far more than its actual volume, we have a billion cubic meters times ten grams per cubic meters, or ten billion grams, ten million kilograms, or 10,000 tons of dust, paltry compared to the million ton mass of the towers.

https://www.uwgb.edu/dutchs/pseudosc/911nutphysics.htm

[-] 1 points by childseyes (85) 1 year ago

Uh, if I ever saw cognitive infiltration, this is it.

notaneoliberal wrote: "A lot of people confuse optical density with amount of dust. The fact that the dust cloud was opaque means only that light didn't penetrate it."

A bonafied minimalization using selectivity. Selecting the fact that, "light didn't penetrate it", ignoring the reasons for the lack of penetration, then distorting again by suggesting that the fact clouds are visible, which have no particulate, means that the dust was like a cloud.

Go back to the insect form that begat you, take your fucking antennas too.

[-] 1 points by nomdeguerre (1775) from Brooklyn, NY 1 year ago

Maybe it is Cass Sunstein itself.

[-] 1 points by notaneoliberal (2269) 1 year ago

Wow, what a mature response.Aren't you the angry little child. Now hold your breath till you turn blue.

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[-] 1 points by stevebol (1268) from Milwaukee, WI 1 year ago

The buildings fell down because they were built like crap and some planes ran into them.

[-] 1 points by DanielBarton (1345) 1 year ago
[-] -2 points by ChristopherABrown (550) from Santa Barbara, CA 1 year ago

They do not know how the core was actually designed. They believe the FEMA lie.

http://algoxy.com/conc/fema_deception.html

[-] 2 points by DanielBarton (1345) 1 year ago

Did you know every building has their blueprints for the public viewing. Sorry I'm never going to believe you unless you have a credible Civil engineer from one of the top universities for civil tells me.

Till then I'm gonna believe what i saw and the scientist from one of the best civil engineering schools in the world.

[-] 0 points by TruthRightsFreedom (259) 1 year ago

Did you notice that the link states the blueprints are fake? Then provides a link to an analysis which shows obvious fakery? You better track these links down because this stuff appears real. I remember seeing it last year and started looking into it. Now, doing it again, I realize this is actual substance.

This engineer has HUGE qualifications, and his report was made before the coverup of the structural design got into gear. Note that web site the .pdf is on, its official.

This was in the disclosure to the US district court under title 18 the OP made.

Structural Engineering Emergency Response Plan” by August Domel, Ph.d SE. PE., November 2001., The following sheet is page 5 of the PDF “Response Plan” available online, http://www.ncsea.com/downloads/wtcseerp.pdf stating the structures have a concrete core (chapter 2.1)

[-] 2 points by DanielBarton (1345) 1 year ago

the more i look and the more studies I've looked at the more i realize it was real

thanks for reassuring me

[-] 0 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

All I got from that PDF was this;

1.4 Source Material The information presented in this document was obtained from two sources. Much of the information was obtained from discussions with structural engineering teams that worked at Ground Zero. The other source was the author’s own opinions based on working at Ground Zero. Nothing in this document should be interpreted as a criticism of any of the structural engineers or structural engineering organizations involved with any aspect of the emergency response. Any questions regarding this issue should be resolved by referring to Chapter 11 of this document.

[-] 1 points by DanielBarton (1345) 1 year ago

o i was talking about more of the other stuff he posted

[-] 0 points by TruthRightsFreedom (259) 1 year ago

Oh sorry, you don't know what the issue is and I didn't make it clear. You must not have seen this page and know that a structural deception is the issue.

http://algoxy.com/conc/fema_deception.html

FEMA misrepresented the core structure to NIST and the world following guiliani removing the building plans from the NYC dept. pf buildings. See the U.S.C title 18 filing "misprision of treason", below, to bring it all together.

Page 5, (chapter 2.1)

The load carrying system was designed so that the steel facade would resist lateral and gravity forces and the interior concrete core would carry only gravity loads.

You need to see this page to understand how it all fits together.

http://algoxy.com/psych/9-11title_18.disclosure.html

I first saw all this in December, I basically understood it but the significance of it hadn't sunk in yet. After re reading it, the meaning I find is that the truth movement has been completely decieved, and what Brown indicates a massive infiltration of some kind occured in social activism that worked with what FEMA, PBS, Guiliani and Silversteen did.

Complex, but based in solid info that is consistent with a great deal of other aspects. Heavy.

[-] 1 points by Builder (4202) 1 year ago

All I really know is this;

It took hours to name the culprits, probably because almost every intelligence agency outside of the US had warned that it was coming. Even the French and I believe the Irish had seen it coming.

It took years to release what was a poorly researched and clearly incomplete document about what really happened.

[-] 1 points by TruthRightsFreedom (259) 1 year ago

All true, but what about the fact that the plans here,

http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/evidence/plans/frames.html

are actually obsolete and do not represent the structures that stood. I mean look at them, the title blocks are freehanded. The tallest buildings in the world ABSOLUTELY used a lettering guide on title blocks. Seriously, this is not good.

[-] 1 points by redandbluestripedpill (333) 1 year ago

Hey, I went poking around that algoxy 9-11 site and found the plan image folder.

http://algoxy.com/psych/planimages/

Looks like screen shots of the downloaded high res scans. Here's the title block like you said. CRAP!

http://algoxy.com/psych/planimages/1967fakeplan.titblk.jpg

[-] 1 points by trashyharry (788) from Waterville, NY 1 year ago

9/11 was an inside job.I have worked for architecture and engineering firms-including Roth,back in the 80's.These types of firms are not in the business of hanging up Death Traps over Lower Manhattan or any other place.The Merrill Lynch Plaza was there for a reason.Nowadays it is not uncommon at all to encounter ordinary people who know nobody would ever pay millions for a demo if all you have to do is set a couple small fires and get a perfect demo and double insurance payoff.

[-] 0 points by TechJunkie (3029) from Miami Beach, FL 1 year ago

You're accusing the Port Authority of killing 3,000 people for insurance money?!?

[-] 1 points by trashyharry (788) from Waterville, NY 1 year ago

If you are not from New York City,you may not be aware of the fact that they and the politicians they own would be willing to kill every single person in Manhattan in order to control and profit from real estate.There is no denying that not even a single CEO was hurt or killed on 9/11/01,and the number of senior executives who were killed is very small.In all of those cases,the victims were hurt or killed while trying to rescue other people.There are only 2 such people that I have found,unless you include John O'Neil,which would add up to 3.I have only found one single person among all of those victims who may have been a citizen of Israel.A bit strange because normally senior corporate executives and business executives and corporate employees who are Israeli citizens are are thick on the ground in Lower Manhattan.As far as the events which took place in New York City and Washington,D.C. on 9/11/01,my research into the matter started lo,these many years ago,when I became angry that the "conspiracy theorists" were at it again.After 3 years of research,I was forced to agree-9/11 was an inside job with all the classic features of a "black op"-I really don't think it is a good idea for any further discussion of this,and my comment was not meant to provoke an in depth discussion about it.If you would like to use my "trutherism" to taunt or discredit me-as it seems by the tone of your comment-please-knock yourself out.

[-] 2 points by TechJunkie (3029) from Miami Beach, FL 1 year ago

You discredited yourself already so there is no need for me to add to that. But your theory is fascinating entertainment. This site really does attract some 'interesting' ideas.

[-] 2 points by trashyharry (788) from Waterville, NY 1 year ago

Other people think otherwise-even if that is not OK with you.I would wish you luck in your endeavors,but people like you don't need luck because of your innate superiority-LOL

[-] 1 points by TechJunkie (3029) from Miami Beach, FL 1 year ago

Even if lots of other people did believe that Jews at the Port Authority hijacked airliners full of people and crashed them into their own buildings for insurance money, that would be an example of the logical fallacy known as argumentum ad populum, which is not a very compelling argument.

[-] 1 points by trashyharry (788) from Waterville, NY 1 year ago

I did not say that.Discussion of the events which occurred on 9/11/01 is really not encouraged on this site.It is permitted to mention those events;it is permitted to refer to those events;it is even permitted to express opinions about those events.Continuing discussion & arguing about the events of 9/11/01 is really in a gray area which could cause one or both of us to be suspended from using the site for some period of time.The reason for this policy is that there are numerous other forums for discussion of 9/11 and related subjects.I wish to co-operate with the site policy,which I hope you can now understand.Please drop the subject-I did not mean to start any kind of discussion of the truther issue,I merely stated my opinion,which I formed on my own,based on my own experience and my own research.You are free to state your disagreement,but attempting to argue about it serves no worthwhile purpose and may cause your site priveleges to be suspended.The modurators are reading all of this,and they can see that I have now 2x tried to terminate this exchange on the subject of 9/11.That might possibly prevent me from getting the boot,or it might not.So,once again,I ask you to drop the subject.

[-] 2 points by TechJunkie (3029) from Miami Beach, FL 1 year ago

I'm not arguing about anything, I think that your theory is really entertaining. Occam's Razor says that it was a Muslim conspiracy to kill Americans, rather than a Jewish conspiracy to collect insurance money. But pondering your theory is so much more fun because of what it seems to reveal about you, personally.

(And don't worry, conspiracy theories are not really one of the things that will get you banned from this site. Especially if you provide entertainment value like that.)

[-] 2 points by trashyharry (788) from Waterville, NY 1 year ago

Sarcastic,mean-spirited,bullying and ignorant.You must have had failing grades in the not-really-very-hard college level course Structural Engineering One-I had good grades in all of the Structural courses I took in college-back when professors enforced high standards because students were students and not customers who need to be kept happy as is the case now.

[-] 0 points by TechJunkie (3029) from Miami Beach, FL 1 year ago

Your grades in college are somehow an argument to back your theory about 9/11 being a Jewish conspiracy to defraud insurance companies?

One of the many things that I never can get the truthers to explain, is how the 'black-ops' agents managed to position the explosive in the exact spots in the buildings where the planes hit. And how none of the explosive rigging was damaged by those huge passenger planes slamming into them. Were the money-hungry Jewish suicide pilots so incredibly good that they managed to nail both buildings in exactly the same spot as the thermite charges? Or did greedy Jewish suicide black-ops agents run up the stairwells and plant the explosives AFTER the planes hit?

[-] 2 points by trashyharry (788) from Waterville, NY 1 year ago

I did not say anything about a "Jewish" conspiracy-you saying that I did doesn't change that.Since you,like most Americans,do not know why structures stand up,there is no way you can begin to understand why,and how they fall down.A structure that includes a defect unilaterally cannot collapse straight down;in such a case,the structure will degrade faster on the side where the defect is most pronounced.Anyhow,in true bully form,you refuse to just let this conversation come to an end due to lack of enthusiasm because you wish to keep on harassing and bullying me.I have already stated that I do not wish to be involved in this discussion,and I have suggested to you that you seek out a 9/11 related forum so that you can continue your arguments there with someone else.Of course you are not going to do that because you prefer that exciting rush of Bully Adrenaline that people like you enjoy so much.I think you might be trying to "get under my skin" with your insults,question-begging,shoving words into my mouth and ad hominum attacks.I have been singled out and tormented by bullies who make you look like a piker for my whole life-believe me,nobody can get under my skin at all.That is the first thing that a person in my profession must master because if you can't stand the most brutal criticism and the most venomous attacks,you have to find something else to do.Now I simply do not wish to continue this because I don't think you are an interesting person.Further attempts to get a reaction out of me will not work,because this is the world of computers,and I can simply ignore you.I'm glad of that because I know if you could,you would dump garbage on my doorstep,mail dead animals to me,bust my windows and all the rest of it.Because of your attempts to brand me an anti-semite,I suppose you are a Zionist-the perfect ideology for bullies.

[-] 1 points by TechJunkie (3029) from Miami Beach, FL 1 year ago

You're calling me a Zionist and talking about how Israelis demolished the twin towers but you're not talking about a Jewish conspiracy? So ... a "Zionist Israeli" conspiracy, then?

[-] 0 points by trashyharry (788) from Waterville, NY 1 year ago

You are a Bully and a stalker.Knock yourself out.

[-] 1 points by TruthRightsFreedom (259) 1 year ago

Remarkable how some folks will pretend they can stand in a cabbage field and reasonably state there is no cabbage.

"One of the many things that I never can get the truthers to explain, is how the 'black-ops' agents managed to position the explosive in the exact spots in the buildings where the planes hit."

This is from the OP. Clearly, planes do not matter. Clearly explosives are everywhere with precision delays.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEON7g7Nxnc&feature=player_embedded

The link in the OP goes to a site that explains how the explosives were placed and after my second review of the site in a year, it is definitly the most feasible explanation I've seen.

[-] 1 points by TechJunkie (3029) from Miami Beach, FL 1 year ago

The explosives were everywhere? You're telling me that the most feasible explanation that you can come up with is that Jews constructed the WTC towers with C4 embedded in every steel beam, in preparation for a gigantic insurance fraud scam 30 years later?

Then how did they manage to start the demolition from the exact spots that the planes hit? We have all seen the videos of both towers collapsing way too many times. Both towers began to collapse from the exact spots where the planes hit. But not right away. So a detonation mechanism somehow survived the plane impacts, and the money-hungry Jews triggered the detonation remotely, starting at the exact points where the planes hit? Doesn't it seem odd that the detonation mechanism would still work perfectly after being hit by a gigantic airplane filled with jet fuel?

You've never heard of Occam's Razor? Isn't the simplest explanation that two giant planes hit the buildings and the resulting fires caused structural collapse? Isn't the simplest explanation that it was a Muslim conspiracy to kill Americans rather than a Jewish conspiracy to defraud insurance companies? Since, you know, they bragged about it afterward and all?

[-] 2 points by TruthRightsFreedom (259) 1 year ago

Pretending someone said something about jews while distorting as you do is a good way to expose yourself.

Interesting how you insist it is not a fraud upon insurance companies when no one is asserting it is.

[-] 1 points by TechJunkie (3029) from Miami Beach, FL 1 year ago

From the post that started all of this:

trashyharry said:

Nowadays it is not uncommon at all to encounter ordinary people who know nobody would ever pay millions for a demo if all you have to do is set a couple small fires and get a perfect demo and double insurance payoff.

About Jews, he said:

I have only found one single person among all of those victims who may have been a citizen of Israel.A bit strange because normally senior corporate executives and business executives and corporate employees who are Israeli citizens are are thick on the ground in Lower Manhattan.

[-] 0 points by nomdeguerre (1775) from Brooklyn, NY 1 year ago

Your quote: "One of the many things that I never can get the truthers to explain, is how the 'black-ops' agents managed to position the explosive in the exact spots in the buildings where the planes hit. And how none of the explosive rigging was damaged by those huge passenger planes slamming into them. "

Look at the videos, dumbass. The falling floors above the impact floors are already destroyed by the time they reach the impact zone ( http://www.ae911truth.org/en/evidence.html ). There goes the pancake theory. There goes your nonsense theory that the airplane strikes and the explosive placements had to be coordinated.

The explosive charges of course could have been controlled through radio frequencies, hard wiring wouldn't have been needed. Duh . . .

[Please note, I had to insert your quote at the top to prevent you from changing the subject and pretending I was bringing in arguments I never mentioned, as is your wont.]

[-] 1 points by TechJunkie (3029) from Miami Beach, FL 1 year ago

You appear to have accidentally logged in as the wrong sock puppet.

[-] -1 points by nomdeguerre (1775) from Brooklyn, NY 1 year ago

To quote childseyes, "Go back to the insect form that begat you, take your fucking antennas too."

You think we're stupid, weirdo?

[-] 1 points by TechJunkie (3029) from Miami Beach, FL 1 year ago

No, I think you're a potentially anti-Semitic conspiracy theorist with at least two sock puppets.

[-] 1 points by nomdeguerre (1775) from Brooklyn, NY 1 year ago

You're the one who keeps bringing in anti-Semitism and Jews. In your mind, what's their relationship to this discussion? Or in your mind, what do you think is in the mind of a "potentially anti-Semitic conspiracy theorist"? I'm curious.

[-] 1 points by nomdeguerre (1775) from Brooklyn, NY 1 year ago

Hey, keep setting up those strawmen and knocking them down. Go for it.

[To other readers, please see my note in brackets in my comment at the top of this thread. This poor fool is entirely predictable.]

[-] 0 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

are fractals are semi symmetric or sizey symmetric ?

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[-] 0 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 1 year ago

The real truth people need to know about 9/11 is that there was prior knowledge that the attacks were going to happen. The Bush administration did not act on this knowledge. They let these events happen because they could use them to go to war. Wars which they had already been planning. Wars like Iraq.

They had prior knowledge that the attacks were going to happen. Then the government helped the Bin Laden family leave the country.

[-] 0 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago
[-] 0 points by stevebol (1268) from Milwaukee, WI 1 year ago

Maybe the planes were radio-controlled by Mel Gibson.

[-] 2 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 1 year ago

They were trained and funded by people the US trained and funded, is that not enough? The US was warned many times and did nothing, not even increase air patrols at bases covering potential targets named in the memos, is that not enough? Just how high is the bar for breaking the oath of office? How high is that bar for proving fatally flawed practices out of the pentagon? Either aliens did it or it was all lagit like the media tells it? No in-between?

Or does being an ass comfort you because it's easier than facing any level of doubt you have about the US government's practices? Stop goosestepping already.

[-] 1 points by stevebol (1268) from Milwaukee, WI 1 year ago

We all have our little conspiracy theories. Here's mine; General Edwin Walker was kicked out of the army because people thought he was a crazy extremist. Oswald tried to shoot him but he was a losey shot and he missed. Walker was the inspiration for the modern day Tea Party. They are swallowing the republican party whole. My conspiracy theories are better than yours.

[-] 1 points by richardkentgates (3269) from Fort Walton Beach, FL 1 year ago

These are the facts, they are not up for debate. As I said previously, stop goosestepping already.


The Memos


US Funding & Training


[-] 1 points by stevebol (1268) from Milwaukee, WI 1 year ago

I'm not going to check your links because you called me an ass. Try again.

[-] 0 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 1 year ago

It would have been much more grotesque if the towers had just stood and burn

but gravity would not permit it

[-] 0 points by TruthRightsFreedom (259) 1 year ago

Did you know FEMA misrepresented the core structure? That's what the video titles are about. The deception part is primarily about the structure. All the structure below the fires resisted gravity for 33 years.

Since the plane impacts were assymetrical, any structural failure attributed to them will have similar characteristics. This was absolutely symetrical. Did you see the other video where the delays can be heard at the "scenario" page?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEON7g7Nxnc&feature=player_embedded.

[-] 1 points by TruthRightsFreedom (259) 1 year ago

From what I read, the true structure allows feasible explanation for things like free fall, total pulverization, square cut columns, the high metal content of the dust, the quantity of dust.

http://algoxy.com/psych/9-11fivephenomena.html

I gotta say, that pulverization explanation makes my skin crawl. Too real, too possible.

All while no one else has a feasible explanation of any kind!!!

[-] 0 points by ZenDog (20531) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

.

In the end, we were able to debunk each of these assertions with hard evidence and a healthy dose of common sense. We learned that a few theories are based on something as innocent as a reporting error on that chaotic day. Others are the byproducts of cynical imaginations that aim to inject suspicion and animosity into public debate. Only by confronting such poisonous claims with irrefutable facts can we understand what really happened on a day that is forever seared into world history.

.

[-] 1 points by SteadyRock (63) from New York, NY 1 year ago

Now tell us please your vision, your truly opinion on such matter. could you? let see how do you work this out hehe

[-] 0 points by ZenDog (20531) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

I already did - right here

But I can say it again, if you like:

.

I watched the planes hit - live on tv - I watched people jumping - live on tv.

It's my opinion that the whole conspiracy has been deliberately designed to distract from the probability that we knew it was coming and did nothing.

Heat does strange things to metal.

Pay attention next time a fuel truck explodes under a bridge. The steel beams in the over pass will buckle - and I'm positive that your average bridge has a lot less weight to it than several floors of the Twin Towers.

.

.

so . . . . what's your fucking deal?

[-] 1 points by nomdeguerre (1775) from Brooklyn, NY 1 year ago

Uh, Zenpuppy . . . uh . . . jet fuel isn't gasoline, it's kerosene, dont'cha kno? Kerosene flames have never melted a steel camp stove -- why is that?

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (20531) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

some camp stoves use gasoline and the same may be said in that when they function properly they don't melt the burner either.

here's some facts for ya, ya ignarant fuck -

  • open air burning temp of Jet Fuel A-1

    • 260-315°C (500-599°F)
  • Maximum burning temperature

    • 980°C (1796 °F)
  • Data from this table indicates that at 500 C structural steel has lost 51% of its strength when compared to itself at 20 C

[-] 1 points by nomdeguerre (1775) from Brooklyn, NY 1 year ago

So your paymasters in NATO are invested in the 9/11 crime and fraud. How interesting.

Facts back at ya, ignorant moron: http://www.ae911truth.org/ , just a few architects, engineers and scientists (not that common sense shouldn't be enough).

On the psychology of what prevents so many from seeing the truth: http://www.ae911truth.org/en/news-section/41-articles/645-psychology-experts-speak-out-why-is-the-911-evidence-difficult-for-some-to-accept-.html . Not that this would apply to you. It seems your opinions are bought and paid for.

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (20531) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

this whole debate really makes me sick. I get where people like you are coming from, I get it. I've seen inexplicable shit. Then someone trots out theories of ET or some shit.

It's bullshit.

What do we know of human behavior and what do we know of the state of technology and what can we prove?

The truthers often insist: Bush did it - and that is ridiculous. If he had known - if any members of his staff had known, that this was in the wind, do you think they would not have been prepared with a script for Bush that would choreograph with precise detail the imagery of Leader, of being Presidential?

No.

Instead he was seen flying willy nilly around the country aboard Air Force one, like a school girl in a tizzy.

Portions of the intell apparatus may have known it was coming, certainly should have known it was coming, and most probably did know it was coming.

Don't tell me they planted dynamite - they wouldn't have the sack today to pull a stunt like that for fear of getting caught.

An owner of the building might be a different matter - and that would require access to that portion of the intell apparatus that had foreknowledge.

Everything else is simply a means of discrediting angry citizens who have seen some of the worst that modern technology has to offer and will not rest without redress.

[-] 1 points by TruthRightsFreedom (259) 1 year ago

ZenDog wrote: "this whole debate really makes me sick. I get where people like you are coming from, I get it. I've seen inexplicable shit. Then someone trots out theories of ET or some shit. It's bullshit."

From the list of cognitive distortions below, zendog would hope people as his writing suggests. The numbers are in the order of the distortions of the sentence above.

8, 4, 2, 1, 10, 12

We are entitled to use facts in explanation, it is reasonable. You are entitled to about 5 years in prison for working to conceal treason with distortions interfering with speech intended to defend the constitution.

ZenDog wrote: "What do we know of human behavior and what do we know of the state of technology and what can we prove?"

We have the list of distortions below and you are behaving specifically to use them and attempt to distort facts. I've viewed the videos and see things showing that FEMA misrepresented the towers design and construction. A little independent research showed me back in December that indeed, the entire truth movement appears to be using the FEMA deception. Logically, they're info will be useless if that is the case. You seem to be TRYING to take full advantage of that while distorting.

ZenDog wrote: "The truthers often insist: Bush did it - and that is ridiculous. If he had known - "

10, 2, 4,

COGNITIVE DISTORTIONS

  1. All or nothing thinking: Things are placed in black or white categories. If things are less than perfect self is viewed as failure.
  2. Over generalization: Single event is viewed as continuous failure.
  3. Mental filter: Details in life (positive or negative) are amplified in importance while opposite is rejected.
  4. Minimizing: Perceiving one or opposite experiences (positive or negative) as absolute and maintaining singularity of belief to one or the other.
  5. Mind reading: One absolutely concludes that others are reacting positively or negatively without investigating reality.
  6. Fortune Telling: Based on previous 5 distortions, anticipation of negative or positive outcome of situations is established
  7. Catastrophizing: Exaggerated importance of self's failures and others successes.
  8. Emotional reasoning: One feels as though emotional state IS reality of situation
  9. "Should" statements: Self imposed rules about behavior creating guilt at self inability to adhere and anger at others in their inability to conform to self's rules.
  10. Labeling: Instead of understanding errors over generalization is applied.
  11. Personalization: Thinking that the actions or statements of others are a reaction to you.
  12. Entitlement: Believing that you deserve things you have not earned.
[-] 1 points by ZenDog (20531) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

I don't intend to spend a lot more time on this issue - honestly - it makes me sick.

But I do feel compelled to point out that based on your reaction you may be experiencing a bit of number one on your list . . .

[-] 0 points by TruthRightsFreedom (259) 1 year ago

Yes, realizing that you are dissociating the true cause of mass murder using cognitive distortions is a sickening concept to be involved with. Imagine what it's like on this end knowing that secret methods of mass murder are still not understood, meaning we are all threatened.

I'm struggling to separate facts from misinformation, and this thread with its links always brings me back to a stable point of reference, and away from the "air headed truther mentality" you react to.

Okay, those were cognitive distortions 2,4,10, but I did it because I know you will understand what I'm talking about:-)

When working within understanding, distortions are okay. It is only when they are used to remove understanding by minimizing or generalizing with different distortions that it is not wholesome. Or, to dissociate, which means those doing so are very disturbed by the info

Yes, your uses of cognitive distortions have caused a bit of "all or nothng thinking" here, but, if you cannot snap out of it and use tangible evidence that is verified, then, such a position is justified.

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (20531) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

is it a cognitive distortion to insist that if Bush had known the attack was coming he would have been prepared to appear very Presidential?

Because I don't think it is. Compare the iconography of his standing on the rubble with loudspeaker with his flying willy nilly all over the country in Air Force One . . . to suggest he knew does not fit with what I know of politicians and their use of iconography to garner popular support.

[-] 1 points by TruthRightsFreedom (259) 1 year ago

I don't do deceptive puppet presidents. I only do facts, things not manufactured to mislead

[-] 0 points by podman73 (-652) 1 year ago

Wow hell must have frozen over, because I agree with zen.

[-] -1 points by MarcusYoung (-1) 1 year ago

May I ask, why do you bother debating with conspiracy theorists? These "Truthers" have been debunked and debunked, and then debunked again over the last 10 years. They have nothing. However, they will never stop. You can't use logic against them and proper rhetoric, their whole schtick is based on illogical pseudoscience. You need to deface their postings. They had their time, now they must be censored.

[-] 1 points by ZenDog (20531) from South Burlington, VT 1 year ago

you sound just like trashy

you have no idea how they come by the beliefs that they hold - why don't you walk in their shoes for a mile and let us then examine whatever changes to your philosophy that may be evident.

[-] 0 points by TruthRightsFreedom (259) 1 year ago

Another cognitive infiltrator using distortions. Have you examined the page posted by the OP which details a simple deception?

http://algoxy.com/conc/fema_deception.html

Then look at this and try to find "core columns". No, one concrete tube is what you see.

http://algoxy.com/psych/images/southcorestands.gif

So marcus, where is the "illogical pseudoscience" in this?

[-] 1 points by SteadyRock (63) from New York, NY 1 year ago

hard to understand you 1 dont want to look as a conspiracy man, therefore sentences appears in double meaning order. if its happened to be a fuel truck explodes under a bridge, believe you me, it will be looks like demolition as in Hollywood movie. and if fuel truck has tend to explodes, the bridge also has tend to collapse. this is today cruel reality, because nobody want second opinion. thank you

[-] 0 points by niphtrique (323) from Sneek, FR 1 year ago

There are a lot of open questions.

But I have discovered something else. The many suspicious 'coincidences' could be part of a scipt.

See for yourself:

http://www.naturalmoney.org/coincidents.html#epih

[-] 3 points by doitagain (234) from Brooklyn, NY 1 year ago

come on men. stop being ridiculous. demolition is nothing to do with numerology. but act of aggression against human society.

[-] 1 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 1 year ago

Ever here of the elite consulting astrologers and what not? Its an old tradition. Some say those same elites base their acts of aggression on numerology.

[-] 1 points by doitagain (234) from Brooklyn, NY 1 year ago

i feel what you saying. Today i was sitting in the morning train. and black men appear and drop his black carryall on the floor. he began speaking loudly something about the fire. ladies who were standing around him have ran away. So man got the good room for maneuver. he told about new world order, about assassination of Kennedy and MLK, about 911 and many many things. about new anti terrorist laws, which been implemented after 911 event. and then he switch topic to the God. the revelations in bible. i was shocked. this is the tricky way how to spell truth!!! im not talking about bible...you know what i mean ;)

[-] 1 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 1 year ago

I know what you mean... ;)

[-] 1 points by rayolite (461) 1 year ago

Maybe the forces of the universe base the exposure of the elites secret methods agression on numerology just so we can observe the methods and know the forces.

[-] 2 points by redandbluestripedpill (333) 1 year ago

The collective unconscious is unknown to us in most ways, but what you imply might be one way.

Uhh, it kinda' makes sense in a way that fits in with this site linked below. BTW, I've checked some of this out and its solid with science and ancient spirituality. It blows my mind that it actually explains how and why 27 or so films could have the numbers 9-11 in them some way, years before 9-11.

http://truthasaur.com/misc/collectiveunconscious.html http://truthasaur.com/misc/sibling_extinctions.html

It also provides some explanation for the info of this post by niphtrique which is mind boggling.

http://occupywallst.org/forum/a-detailed-technically-feasible-explanation-2-towe/#comment-831889

[-] 1 points by arturo (3169) from Shanghai, Shanghai 1 year ago

Perhaps so, but sometimes I think its just the elites deluding themselves with their superstitions as the first step towards deluding the masses.

[-] -2 points by niphtrique (323) from Sneek, FR 1 year ago

I guess you do not get the point, which is: the universe is a virtual reality.

What to think of the following:

On September 11, 2012, a collision between two trams near the Hollands Spoor Station in The Hague in the Netherlands caused 36 wounded. The accident is remarkable because it occurred on September 11, while it was a collision of trams 9 and 11.

Curioursly, a few days before September 11, 2012, a report came into the news that Al-Qaeda has recruited two Somali men in Pakistan to carry out a suicide attack in The Hague.

Also on September 11, 2012, a major bus accident in Eindhoven took place, causing 27 wounded, while 27=9+9+9 and 999 is the emergency services telephone number in Great Britain and Ireland.

Curiously the bus accident happened exactly 11 years after the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001, while two aircraft incidents happened near Eindhoven Aiport, exactly 9 years after the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001.

Someone is making fun of us, and it is not the government, Al Qaeda, the illumnati or the Mossad.

[Removed]

[-] -1 points by TechJunkie (3029) from Miami Beach, FL 1 year ago

Aren't conspiracy theories like this explicitly prohibited here now?

[-] -1 points by MarcusYoung (-1) 1 year ago

Are you joking? Yes, it's true, conspiracy theories are against the forum rules, but the moderators don't enforce that rule. Don't you remember how hard I worked to deface their posts last year? Defacing would not have been necessary had the post been deleted by the moderators. After awhile they gave up because I did not let them discuss their nonsense here. I stopped them dead in their tracks.

Look at zendog in this thread. He's trying to reason with them by providing arguments and linking to debunking sites. I'm all for good rhetoric, but it does not work with conspiracy theorists. They have been debunked over and over again in the last 10 years and they will not stop. This is dangerous for American thought. It's an assault to logic, more dangerous than religions. The only way to stop this pseudoscience assault is to ridicule Truthers and to deface their postings. There's no other way.

[-] -2 points by TechJunkie (3029) from Miami Beach, FL 1 year ago

I like how ZenDog's idea of reasoning with somebody is to call them an "ignorant fuck". Charming.

Have you ever heard the term "conspirituality"? I learned that one last night when I was reading about the Zeitgeist cult and their 9/11 conspiracy dogma. I love that word.

[-] -1 points by notaneoliberal (2269) 1 year ago

Absolute, total bullshit.

[-] 1 points by ChristopherABrown (550) from Santa Barbara, CA 1 year ago

If that was true you could link to a site explaining total pulverization. That site has a fully feasible and detailed explanation.

http://algoxy.com/psych/9-11fivephenomena.html

While you are at it, here is the ard to find dust report. This needs explaining to.

http://algoxy.com/psych/9-11dust_explained.html

[-] 0 points by notaneoliberal (2269) 1 year ago

The link I provided 17 hours ago,near the top of this post, which is just one of many on the web, should cover it. Here it is again http://www.debunking911.com/index.html

[-] 1 points by TruthRightsFreedom (259) 1 year ago

Gee, the word "pulverize" shows up once on the whole site.

http://www.debunking911.com/civil.htm

"Once each tower began to collapse, the weight of all the floors above the collapsed zone bore down with pulverizing force on the highest intact floor. Unable to absorb the massive energy, that floor would fail, transmitting the forces to the floor below, allowing the collapse to progress downward through the building in a chain reaction. Engineers call the process "pancaking," and it does not require an explosion to begin"

"The link I provided 17 hours ago,near the top of this post, which is just one of many on the web, should cover it."

NOT!

"Pancaking" does not cause what that firefighter describes. Nothing like that. Everything shredded to tiny pieces is HUGE, HUGE . . . HUGE. HTF does that happen?

Everyone should watch this video. This firefighter is in shock by what they didn't find that is normally found with a "collapse".

http://www.plaguepuppy.net/public_html/collapse%20update/collapsed%20to%20dust.mpg

And that dust report needs explaining too.

And the freefall explanation is NONSENSE. Have you read it?

http://www.debunking911.com/freefall.htm

"In every photo and every video, you can see columns far outpacing the collapse of the building. Not only are the columns falling faster than the building but they are also falling faster than the debris cloud which is ALSO falling faster than the building. This proves the buildings fell well below free fall speed. That is, unless the beams had a rocket pointed to the ground."

OMG "Not only are the columns falling faster than the building". The building in the background has NOT fallen yet. It is stationary. That's fnnnnn double speak BS.

I would not be surprised if the perpetrators themselves designed that web site.

[-] 0 points by notaneoliberal (2269) 1 year ago

Enjoy your new religion.

[-] 1 points by doitagain (234) from Brooklyn, NY 1 year ago

nothing is absolute, remember?

[-] 0 points by notaneoliberal (2269) 1 year ago

Is the statement;"nothing is absolute" absolute?

[-] -2 points by notaneoliberal (2269) 1 year ago

1=1=2 absolutley

[-] -2 points by freewriterguy (882) 1 year ago

Serves them right, if only every person who sits on their ass working in an office and gets a paycheck like bums sucking from the hard work of others would R.I.P. what a better world this would be!