Forum Post: A alternative system? How about a Resource based Economy?
Posted 12 years ago on Sept. 30, 2011, 1:31 a.m. EST by alternativeknowledge
(0)
from Orlando, FL
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
I hear allot of complaining but not allot of real solutions? How about a "resourced based economy" :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIMy0QBSQWo
Heres a brief biography on the creator of the venus project:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBSNIWL3bx0
Make sure to watch zeitgeist addendum as well:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Z9WVZddH9w
i think occupy wall street movement should be promoting these ideas....we need a real revolution to establish a new system that can eliminate the class struggle and condition humanity under more harmonious morals.
Seriously why isnt occupy wallstreet promoting this?
I have a better model called a global party it's better than a communistic RBE Utopia. Link is below
http://occupywallst.org/forum/occupy-wall-street-basic-model-proposal-and-no-its/
for an alternative global financial system see the supreme financial system http://globe-union-bank.org/
@gawdoftruth ..."evil fascist cult of personality..." just what you look like when you write here.
more harmonious morals are needed fer sure, starting with tzm. to begin with, you'd have to fire neil kiernian, who is a patent sociopathic bully and con scam artist, who uses an ad hom double standard to create the tzm social order as a fascist pack psychology game. Then you'd have to actually start meaningful research and problem solving process, instead of promoting merely an anti capitalism agenda and ideology. Then you'd have to get real meta process and process going in order to organize people into think tanks, instead of sucking everyones time up in an ideology echo chamber and bullying everyone to NOT think for themselves. Finally we would end up in an actual open source design process that would not include contracts for exclusive use which would bar artists from ever using their work once donated to tzm. ETC. For a so called social (anti social) movement (stuck insidious log jam) which wants to claim the moral high ground and address failures in the systems morality- its got too many epic fails on the issues of its own moral failures to be taken seriously by anyone with an IQ over 85. How it manages to suck in everyone else it does is mostly a mystery- they are desperate and have no better sense of what to do with their time- which is sad- because all tzm ever does with peoples time is waste that time completely.
The venus project is a vision vastly different from our current way of life... and environmentally, our current way of life is NOT sustainable in any way shape or form. For mankind to have avoided total energy crisis by even the end of this century, we need to come up with a vision that IS vastly different. You've drawn some lines between popular negative opinions of tzm with some notion of implicit moral failure in the resource based economy. My gut tells me this is a stretch... What methods besides moderation and a comprehensive analysis of our resources will keep us on this planet the longest? What a waste of a revolution this would be if the only thing we worked towards was a redistribution of power and money. All the dreams-come-true won't mean a thing if the world is dying at our feet as we dote on our new-found financial security. I don't think the OP is saying we should "sign up" for the venus project, just that we need something LIKE it. You've been quick to cast the idea aside... so what do YOU suppose daily life will be like after this movement?
the venus project is an infantile and pathetic non solution con scam. Its not wildly different, its just technocrat fascism, which is old news. The ideas of a resource based economy are pipe dream poems, detached from science based definitions of those same realities. I am all for the general principle. Sadly they can't even manage to define their economic system without assorted systems epic fails. What i propose is very simple. The revolution tzm should have had if it had any brains or sense or moral compass. All of us working together on an open source direct democracy problem solving process that is formal logic and science centered. TZM is actually anti science, and anti intellectual, and anti truth. Thats the problem.
i agree it would be foolish to donate to the venus project. i'm with ya on that. But the thing is, "technocrat fascism"... is essentially happening already, just woven into the fabric of capitalism. We still see the gross divide in our society, the rulers and the ruled, we're driven ever more by technology (specifically dated technology), and as we can see in the light of OWS, the media twists any form of opposition in it's favor. I assumed we were considering this conversation on a global scale. (at least since my aim is global environmentalism) And if so, I have this to say. Hypothetically, the venus project happens, utopia and shit, hooray. Then it descends into the fated pitfalls of corruption... I can see that going a lot further a lot QUICKER than what you proposed. Perhaps you could clarify, but a direct democracy on a global scale? "formal logic" says that the more ideas you have, the fewer get realized- which as it happens is a central theme of the protest right now. And if we DID use formal logic, i still argue that we'd arrive at the same core issue: providing energy and sufficient resources to everyone. Eventually we'd have to divvy up whatever's available. Basically i gather you and i can agree on what we want and don't want, we just disagree on the best way to get there.
"formal logic" says that the more ideas you have, the fewer get realized- "
i don't agree. systems theory says that we must focus like a laser beam on only ten things but that it is the width and shapen and diversity of our marketing net which wins this. So laser beam like focus on 10 things but good competent attention to 1001 things. We need to END the conversation every time one of those other things pops up with an evolutionary answer and solution to that problem and then a segue way BACK to the 10 core issues.
I have a better model called a global party it's better than a communistic RBE Utopia. Link is below
http://occupywallst.org/forum/occupy-wall-street-basic-model-proposal-and-no-its/
interesting you should make a thread on this.
Okay- a respectable retort. I'm beginning to see your point, but what do you mean by evolutionary answer and solution? do you mean less important tangents? I guess I can't find a fatal problem with what you're saying besides who determines the 10 core issues.
the core issues;
"Right, but that still doesn't preclude taxation, which is in fact necessary to regulate the value of money"
nope. taxation period of any kind is merely and only a means to the end of creating a caste system. And even deeper, taxation dynamically entropizes a system, so its not only not necessary to regulate money, its the single largest entropic contributor to the system. The ONLY reason why we pay taxes is thats the feudal system; the idea that we pay anything remotely approaching the same thing or fair to what the rich pay is preposterous. The whole point of taxes is to distribute wealth from the poor to the rich. period.
gawdoftruth (Santa Barbara, CA) 1 points 0 seconds ago
"the end goal product should be that every small community takes care of its own. Any federal system is a problem definition of something requiring more serious attention to solve. long term social programs managed by nation sized meta entities is a disaster not only socially and civilly but to the people who get third rate borg social services. A well functioning system does not need a welfare system, it only has a highly evolved net which catches people and only involves less than one percent of the population at any given time, not punishing but rehabing and educating folks. Until such time as that end goal is achieved, no hand outs is a paradox... you have to spend time and thus money in order to fix the problems till their fixed past needing time or money."
That's a great list. Its solid and well rounded. I don't want to divert attention from that or belabor this conversation cuz we're at a nice conclusion. All i'll say is that an energy crisis is still completely inevitable and will have to be dealt with on a global scale. So somewhere in that list needs to be a way to handle it through diplomacy, corporate cooperation, and investing seriously in better sources of energy.
I especially liked the combo of 4 and 8. If the internet can spread revolutions, it can certainly sustain a democracy.
yeah. thats why its geothermal and solar power all the way, no more coal, no more oil, no more nuclear.... at least not for 50 years till we can do it safe and sound.
i think the tzm cult is a giant stinking pooh of a dead end, an evil fascist cult of personality in three tiers, and not a place for any of us to waste our time and energy.
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