Forum Post: 5th of November
Posted 13 years ago on Oct. 26, 2011, 2:08 a.m. EST by VvV
(6)
from New York, NY
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
Good evening, world. Allow me first to apologize for this interruption. I do, like many of you, appreciate the comforts of every day routine- the security of the familiar, the tranquility of repetition. I enjoy them as much as any bloke. But in the spirit of commemoration, thereby those important events of the past usually associated with someone's death or the end of some awful bloody struggle, a celebration of a nice holiday, I thought we could mark this November the 5th, a day that is sadly no longer remembered, by taking some time out of our daily lives to sit down and have a little chat.
There are of course those who do not want us to speak. I suspect even now, orders are being shouted into telephones, and men with guns will soon be on their way. Why? Because while the truncheon may be used in lieu of conversation, words will always retain their power. Words offer the means to meaning, and for those who will listen, the enunciation of truth. And the truth is, there is something terribly wrong with this country, isn't there? Cruelty and injustice, intolerance and oppression. And where once you had the freedom to object, to think and speak as you saw fit, you now have censors and systems of surveillance coercing your conformity and soliciting your submission.
How did this happen? Who's to blame? Well certainly there are those more responsible than others, and they will be held accountable, but again truth be told, if you're looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror. I know why you did it. I know you were afraid. Who wouldn't be? War, terror, disease. There were a myriad of problems which conspired to corrupt your reason and rob you of your common sense. Fear got the best of you, and in your panic you turned to the now ruling party, the Republicans and the President Obama. They promised you hope, they promised you peace, and all he demanded in return was your silent, obedient consent. Tonight, I seek to end to end that silence.
More than four hundred years ago a great citizen wished to embed the fifth of November forever in our memory. His hope was to remind the world that fairness, justice, and freedom are more than words, they are perspectives. So if you've seen nothing, if the crimes of this government remain unknown to you then I would suggest you allow the fifth of November to pass unmarked.
But if you see what I see, if you feel as I feel, and if you would seek as I seek, then I ask you to stand beside me, at the New York Stock Exchange, on the fifth of November, and through our nonviolent means, we will march past the police who seek to suppress us, jump the barricades that seek to silence us and finally, truly, Occupy Wall Street.
-V
.A building is a symbol, as is the act of occupying it. Symbols are given power by people. A symbol, in and of itself is powerless, but with enough people behind it, occupying a building can change the world.
You need to occupy the nut house.
The 5th of November...
Why thank you all blokes for your vivacious response and your constructive criticism.
I confess that perhaps my idea may be one that seems... risky. But i need to be clear, this is completely non-violent.
I want all of you to consider this image. Hundreds, if not thousands, of OWS demonstrators, walking at the barricades stone faced, if not silent. Just walking. Let them fight back. It will only seek to make them look worse. We will continue on to the NYSE and actually occupy wall street.
I remember.
I wont support violence
White flag - dido (MMV V for vendetta)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRcgnipdKqw
my favorite part is where everyone takes off their mask
don't commit any,. you can still storm that gates and not throw a punch,.
Guy Fawkes, you are an inspiration to us all!
Really, Guy Fawkes? The same Guy Fawkes who wanted to murder a bunch of politicians over his religious beliefs? He has more in common with bin Laden than any other "freedom fighter" today.
First off it was a joke, in reference to the Guy Fawkes masks used by Anonymous, taken from the movie V for Vendetta, which I believe the author of that post was referring to. Second, whether someone is viewed as a "terrorist" or "freedom fighter" depends entirely on which side of the fence you are on; I would hope you are intelligent to understand that. US military policy is considered acts of terrorism in many parts of the world, and rightfully so. Guy Fawkes was a terrorist to some and a hero to others. For all the good King James I may have done he is equally vilified by many of his contemporaries and historians, for many reasons. He was instrumental in helping usher in the British Civil War and also persecuted and personally supervised the torture and murder of scores of women considered witches. Consider many British were upset, to put it mildly, when Henry VIII abolished the Catholic church and ransacked and destroyed thousands of churches across England, looting their gold and wealth to fill the coffers of the King. One of the things Fawkes and his cohorts were attempting to do was restore the Catholic church as the rightful Church of England, a view countless British agreed with but couldn't outright say, since that would invariably have garnered them a visit to the "chopping block." And finally, being of Irish heritage I hold little affection for ANY English king who persecuted and murdered, wholesale, and stole the land of my fellow ancestors and countrymen. Oh, and one more thing: lighten up.
nice,. ;)
Right on.
that will be truly pointless compared to creating a new third party.
http://occupythiswiki.org/wiki/THE_99%25_POLITICAL_PARTY
http://occupythiswiki.org/wiki/Main_Page
http://www.followthemoney.org/?gclid=CMbY87bB-qsCFUPt7Qod9HE8mQ
http://maplight.org/us-congress/guide/data/money?9gtype=search&9gkw=list%20of%20campaign%20donations&9gad=6213192521.1&9gag=1786513361&gclid=CP61oYbB-qsCFQFZ7AodcTF0jw
http://www.opensecrets.org/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/our-new-wiki/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/non-violence-evolution-by-paradigm-shift/
kind sir, may I ask... why can't we do both?
A bunch of people camping out in a park is nice, but is it effective? Is it memorable? Will it change things? The 5th of November can be a bastion of change that will lead to your party being created. A party cannot be created without a rally. A revolution is not a revolution without a dance.
Sure, we could do both. Have you stopped to consider the price your chess pieces will probably pay? How many deaths, how many hospitalizations, how many wounded peeps is it before its too many?
The pigs would be ready, and they would form a solid blockade. To get past it you'd have to have three rows of people willing to sacrifice themselves bodily, or you'd have to have the crowd carry panels of metal in order to shield themselves. Once the crowd goes up and over the top of the police line, thats when the real fun starts. The police would begin shooting people and would claim self defense.
How many dead people is your symbolic measure worth?
unless you are prepared to advocate that we machine gun them down, (which would be more than justified, but hardly sensible..)
You are asking for a thousand or so suicides by- pig.
While i absolutely share your rage and contempt for the evil fucking system, i don't think thats a price we should pay.
active imagination,.
I think it's just like soldiers signing up for war (who are not forced to). That was no one else's choice or responsibility. They did it all on their own knowing the consequences. If there are people out there, with true passion and love, that actually want to do this, then by all means let them make their decision.
dying for this is not as sensible nor as noble as working for it the hard way.
i have put the real solution and the real manner in which to have a revolution on the table.
assuming you do raid wall street. assuming you raid their very buildings and destroy their offices. Assuming even that this manages to happen without deaths.
Thats does not give you a revolution, it gives you a symbolic moment in time followed by an intense police and state crack down, followed by nothing actually changes.
only the work does the work. protesting as such is just an escape away from doing the homework.
only a paradigm shift gives us a real revolution.
if everyone packed up and went home from all occupies tomorrow, and met us on the wiki, we could have a genuine revolution in under two months.
protesting could go on for years without a single meaningful consequence.
I have no idea what will truly happen, given any individual's proposed solution.
I'm not saying what is the right thing to do, or what is noble or not. All I am saying is that, though there might be opposition to this, if people truly want to do this, we aren't going to stop them.
all i am saying is, anybody who does this is being stupid, and is failing to understand what any real path of right action is.
You know i could build a nuke for 300 dollars worth of spare parts, a microwave oven and an oscillometer. I have that knowledge. I'm also not stupid, evil, pig headed, or morally bankrupt.
Just because we could or can do some thing does not make that thing a good idea or the right course of action to take.
As bwilliant as it is as sleepy fantasy, nuking wall street isn't a solution, and neither is rushing a police line.
of course. But it is very overwhelming to try to find the right courses of action, given the amount of work that needs to be done.
no, its very easy because i have made it very easy.
http://occupythiswiki.org/wiki/THE_99%25_POLITICAL_PARTY
http://occupythiswiki.org/wiki/Main_Page
http://www.followthemoney.org/?gclid=CMbY87bB-qsCFUPt7Qod9HE8mQ
http://maplight.org/us-congress/guide/data/money?9gtype=search&9gkw=list%20of%20campaign%20donations&9gad=6213192521.1&9gag=1786513361&gclid=CP61oYbB-qsCFQFZ7AodcTF0jw
http://www.opensecrets.org/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/our-new-wiki/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/non-violence-evolution-by-paradigm-shift/
I agree with your idea of throwing out all incumbents and holding a re-election for EVERY and ANY official position within any sections of government, locally, state, and nationwide.
And thank you for the links. followthemoney.org was very insightful.
I must confess, I do not know how to bring this up to the General Council but it must be considered...
Simple Solution. Follow Gandhi's Salt March Example. Eventually the World Will frown upon authority and realize that the people are willing to peacefully march and even expect brutality in order to create a symbol.
I agree. Remember this is not Hollywood and indeed such a march could give the 1% (and when I say 1%, I'm not referring to those who make $1 million, I'm specifically referring to the board members of Bank of America, CEOs of Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan Chase, The Carnegies, Rothchilds and the like) legitimate cause to undermine the First Amendment and the Occupy Revolution altogether, and thus the 99%.
Yes. A peaceful display on Nov. 5 in front of the NYSE is a grand idea and symbol that the people's minds are opened and they see what V sees. That itself is "bulletproof".
At the same time, however if we were forced into a police state, then I could die happy fighting for what I believe in. But at this stage I'd rather 'live and fight another day'.
PS. while watching Democracy Now today I had to play Redemption Song (the remix with lauryn hill) over and over. Soo good.
You will get your ass kicked first then arrested then fined. It's NYC "bloke", not Disney World.
I would, but LSU plays Alabama that day and I am NOT missing that game.