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Forum Post: 2013 radical islamist or 1492 spanish inquisitor or 1095 catholic crusader

Posted 10 years ago on May 25, 2013, 9:48 p.m. EST by mideast (506)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

when will religious terrorism end?

![] (http://www.usnews.com/usnews/php/galleries/image.php/2028/2/2.jpg)

only when we let others worship their God as THEY choose



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[-] 1 points by HCabret (-327) 10 years ago

Religious Terrorism will end when religion ends.

Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Jains, Athiests, Christians, ect. They are all equally bad for humanity.

[-] 1 points by shadz66 (19985) 10 years ago

You've got Jains on that list !!! That's thrown me a li'l lol, as Gandhi was influenced by Jainism !! In truth, this side of mortal death and in this frequency range - 'agnosticism' is the only true and natural state !

Only ethical and compassionate behaviour has value and thus also consider : ''A fanatic is a man who consciously over compensates a secret doubt'' (Aldous Huxley).

pax ...

[-] 0 points by HCabret (-327) 10 years ago

Gandhi was also a raging hindu. ;)

Agnosticism is flawed, however, my friend because it denies the possibility of absolute knowledge. Perfect and complete knowledge may be extremely unlikely, but it is certainly possible.

I do say that you should fear anyone who claims to "know it all", but that doesn't mean we shouldn't strive to know it all.

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 10 years ago

Agnosticism may be flawed but 'to doubt' is as human as is it is to ask ''why & how'' ?! You are veering to the metaphysical when you say, ''perfect and complete knowledge may be extremely unlikely, but it is certainly possible.'' !! So I'll tentatively suggest that on ''this side of mortal death and in this frequency range'' such ''knowledge'' is available to all but perhaps only to a few who can attain it, while still vibrating in this 'frequency range' and that the various Abrahamic mumbo-jumbos seem to be utterly ignorant of other spiritual traditions and are limited, linear, largely very 'male' and misogynistic & too often - loony !!!

You and I have a life force / energy which complies with the first law of thermo-dynamics (perhaps, lol) so although religions are a 'social control modality', they also seem to appeal to something inherent in humans and all possibly harbour some kernel of deep, universal, immutable 'spiritual truth' but 'religious or spiritual' exclusivism and supremacism, is but a very small breath away from racial supremacism and is therefore something that is simply unconscionable and frankly, impossible. 'Spirit' is for all or no one !!

veritas vos liberabit ...

[-] 1 points by HCabret (-327) 10 years ago

Agnostics beleive that because it is impossible to know that looking in the first place is a waste of time. Curiosity must not die on account of the laziness of a few who want to stop looking for the answers.

Quantum mechanics states that all possiblities are not only possibilities, but inevitablities. The key is to keep looking for the truth and dont stop even when you found it because there is likely to be even more than anyone, you or me could have ever imagined.

Never stop looking.......be a skeptic, but not an agnostic.

[-] 0 points by redandbluestripedpill (333) 10 years ago

Or, when psychology shows that the beliefs are of the unconscious mind, and if God exists, it is through the unconscious we know it.

Life is mostly an unconscious event, and our conscious existence is largely controlled by the conscious. Here is a graphic that demonstrates the fact.


[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 10 years ago

it see it more as a RAM ROM issue

[-] 0 points by redandbluestripedpill (333) 10 years ago

How would that analogy work?

The real import of the graphic is that the unconscious, at least 86%, is uninterrupted from birth to death.

Another profundity is that there is no saying what is past/future cannot also be present when it comes to the unconscious.


[-] 0 points by pigeonlady (284) from Brooklyn, NY 10 years ago

Note the 'cartoon' depicts RADICAL Islam, kids. Not all Muslims. Why isn't anyone commenting on the sect's treatment of women? The burgeoning trend of killing educated girls when it used to be priviledge to have an intelligent daughter, or stoning them for refusing marriage or sex is not a comfortable topic but bears inquiry. Often Hasids around here are not much better, blaming victims....all for 'God'. Don't know who they pray to. Question why religion is another excuse to persecute, discriminate, demean, and indulge in avarice.

[-] 0 points by mideast (506) 10 years ago

any hasids stoning women,
or honor killings,
or child marriages,
or amputations for female criminals.

virtually all religion's "fundmentalists" use books written by men to subjugate women

[-] 1 points by pigeonlady (284) from Brooklyn, NY 10 years ago

The books of the Bible written by women were deleted in the OTHER Dark Ages. The worst is how women cooperate in their own degradation. Sorry, guys, lots of you are sweethearts, but the other ones don't even know what they are.

[-] -2 points by mideast (506) 10 years ago

The Bible & the New Testament were completely written by Jewish men. From what I understand, the Catholic church feared the power of women and excluded many "books" - including some written by women.

Of course, the "book" called the American constitution also excluded women.

I'd be curious to know - who would you regard as the greatest first ladies?
I'd choose Abagail, Eleanor, Hillary

[-] 3 points by LeoYo (5909) 10 years ago

The Bible and the Christian scriptures were not completely written by Jewish men.

The so-called J-source is thought to have been written by a Jewish woman, probably Queen Yerusha.

Only seven letters of the Christian scriptures had been written by a Jewish man.

Romans 1 Corinthians 2 Corinthians Galatians Philippians 1 Thessalonians Philemon

Luke-Acts is thought to have been written by a Greek woman.

The rest of the Christian scriptures were written by Greek men.

[-] 1 points by pigeonlady (284) from Brooklyn, NY 10 years ago

I would like to have a conversation with Abigail who could hold her own, then Eleanor whose heart turned to benefiting others when it had no comfort with her husband, and I thought Hillary was kinda president anyway :) I would like to work with her.

[-] 1 points by grapes (5232) 10 years ago

Hillary was the U.S. Secretary of State when our State Department probably "disowned" in the media the U.S. citizenship of a Turkish American activist who was killed by the Israeli on the humanitarian flotilla trying to breach the Israeli blockade in order to supply the walled-in Gaza Strip. She might have been an architect of converting U.S. citizenship from national citizenship valid worldwide to domestic citizenship valid only on U.S. soil.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 10 years ago

she was secretary of state during continued acts of war by the US

[-] 1 points by pigeonlady (284) from Brooklyn, NY 10 years ago

And as you're aware, the difference between her and prior sec's of state is that she is a woman and less likely forgiven; how much of said acts were directed by her, not the prez or prez previa? What are the inner workings that she has to defend, or absorb responsibility for the actions of manipulators thereof? We have been 'at war' for 20* years now.

[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 10 years ago

now I won't forgive4 politicians for cleaning up some priors mess with violence

[-] 0 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 10 years ago

the key difference here is islam lends itself to radicalism by proxy of its belief system out of hand where as other religions just don't sure you will have your fringe fanatics in other religions however that does not change the fact that islam is inherently set against western values there is no disputing this sure say i am a bigot but it is what it is i didn't create the religion or the belief system. hell i have an interest in sufism as i do all mystical traditions however that being said let us not play political correct games and act as if ISLAM is not part of the problem cause i don't see jains or hindus or athiests, or jews, or christians hacking people up on public streets or blowing themselves up to prove a point.

[-] 0 points by bensdad (8977) 10 years ago

A female suicide bomber has blown herself up in the southern Russian region of Dagestan, injuring at least 18 people.

Two children and five police officers were among those wounded, authorities said on Saturday.

The attacker was later identified as a widow of two Islamic radicals killed by security forces.

It was the first suicide bombing in Dagestan since last month's Boston Marathon attacks.

The Tsarnaev brothers suspected of carrying out those blasts are ethnic Chechens who lived in the turbulent Caucasus province before moving to the US.

Tamerlan Tsarnaev, the elder brother who was killed in a shootout with police days after the April 15 bombings, spent six months in Dagestan in 2012.

Dagestan remains an epicentre of violence in the confrontation between Islamic radicals and federal forces.

Islamic extremists strive to create an independent Muslim state, or "emirate," in the Caucasus and parts of southern Russia with a sizable Muslim population.

In Saturday's attack, the bomber detonated an explosives-laden belt in the central square in the provincial capital, Makhachkala, Dagestan's police spokesman Vyacheslav Gasanov said.

The woman was identified as Madina Alieva, 25, who married an Islamist who was killed in 2009 and then wedded another Islamic radical who was gunned down last year, police spokeswoman Fatina Ubaidatova said.

Since 2000, at least two dozen women, most of them from the Caucasus, have carried out suicide bombings in Russian cities and aboard trains and planes.

All were linked to an Islamic insurgency that spread throughout Dagestan and the predominantly Muslim Caucasus region after two separatist wars in neighbouring Chechnya.

The bombers are often called "black widows" in Russia because many are the widows, or other relatives, of militants killed by security forces.

Islamic militants are believed to convince "black widows" that a suicide bombing will reunite them with their dead relatives beyond the grave.

Police said two of the people injured in the attack were in critical condition. There were no details about the injured children. This week, a double explosion in Makhachkala killed four civilians and left 44 injured, while three security officers and three suspected militants have been killed in other incidents.

[-] -2 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 10 years ago

Bensdad, you don't even understand what Occupy is about, and NOW you're trying to educate us on world affairs and Isalm?!

You're a real a sick joke...really


[-] 2 points by bensdad (8977) 10 years ago

How many OWS meetings have you attended ? ( me : 100 )
how many OWS working groups have you actually worked in ? ( me : 9 )
I am not "educating" about Islam - I am quoting the Quran I have read it - have you?

As for the thief, both male and female, cut off their hands. It is the reward of their own deeds, an exemplary punishment from Allah. Allah is Mighty and wise.

if you are afraid of what I post, why stupidly attack me?
Attack my facts with your "facts" to prove me wrong

your name calling is similar to the kkk's & the 1930s germans

[-] 0 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 10 years ago

Bensdad, until recently I never realized what a complete ASS you & your little multiple pseudonyms are

And you are totally antithetical to what Occupy is about


[-] 0 points by bensdad (8977) 10 years ago

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Do you have a TROLL problem?

here are some of its “tells” ►
attacking the poster - not the post
name calling rather than reason
using vulgarity in stead of sanity
ranting about a source rather than the facts
accusing the poster of being a ---------------
"re-interpreting" the post rather than quoting it ( ala faux noose )
using a gross generalization to “prove” a specific
lying [ often obviously ]
changing the subject
using mccarthyite accusations
afraid to answer questions

you could buy a mongoose or a roach motel, but here is a better way:
………………….THE TROLL solution ►

[-] 0 points by frovikleka (2563) from Island Heights, NJ 10 years ago

WOW Bensdad, I am impressed with your graphics...oooh eee..lol

It's too bad that your brain and compassion don't function at an equally high level.

Will you be meeting at the Atrium to promote your bigotry this week??

Yes there are unfortunately a very few people like yourself who attend OWS events or are in working groups for nefarious reasons

So despite your Occupy involvement, there are many people here who do not live near an active Occupy movement, but unlike you...they know well what Occupy is about.


[-] 0 points by shadz66 (19985) 10 years ago

You smug little toad !!! And an inveterate bigot to boot !! If you think you can so easily call up '1930s Gernany' to Odin's gentle admonition then you are a disgrace to O.W.S. & a reactionary idiot - but we both really know this already, right - 'eric-bensdad-mideast-et-al-weiss' ?!

You know damn well that I could call up any number of references and quote the Tanakh or the Talmud, Mishna or twist the Kol Nidre prayer for example, to reflect badly on another group of people but I would never, ever stoop to your low level for reasons that are probably obvious even to you !!

You have no ''facts'', you only have subjective, literalist interpretations which can be used against ANY religion, dolt. Readers should note your clear glee at cherry picking absurdities in order to malign over a billion people and will also clearly observe your myopia and deranged personal preoccupations. I hope you reply because I've got a lot of ''name calling'' to do yet, that'll make Odin seem like Tinkerbell !!!

temet nosce ...

[-] 0 points by bensdad (8977) 10 years ago

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░░ █░░░ █░░░█░ █░░░░█ ░.█░░░░░ █
░░ █░░░ █░░░█.░.█████ ░░█████░ █████

Do you have a TROLL problem?

here are some of its “tells” ►
attacking the poster - not the post
name calling rather than reason
using vulgarity in stead of sanity
ranting about a source rather than the facts
accusing the poster of being a ---------------
"re-interpreting" the post rather than quoting it ( ala faux noose )
using a gross generalization to “prove” a specific
lying [ often obviously ]
changing the subject
using mccarthyite accusations
afraid to answer questions

you could buy a mongoose or a roach motel, but here is a better way:
………………….TROLL solution ►

[-] 0 points by highlander21 (-46) 10 years ago

Tell that to the Muslims. The Christians saw the error of their ways in the Crusades. The Catholics and Protestants have declared peace in Northern Ireland. Various denominations of Christians have had their petty squabbling for decades. The Hindus and Bhudists have their faiths.

It is only Islam that seeks the death of Christians and nonbelievers. It is unfortunate for the majority of Muslims who live in peace, but the extremists must be exterminated.

[-] 1 points by grace89 (-42) 10 years ago

islam is a politcal system. it tells you who you can befriend, who to hate when and how often and in which direction to pray, what hand to eat with, what hand to clean yourself with after going to the bathroom, it condones lying ( taqyya) if it furthers islam. if you are muslim and want to leave islam ( apostasy) you will be under a death threat, there are "honor" killings ( murders), if you "insult" islam , ( make a cartoon of mohammed) you 're on their kill list. islam is intolerant of everything and eveyone that isnt muslim. they kill their own people if they are deemed to be not muslim enough. they did this in pakistan and other countries around the world. they murder people who refuse to convert ot islam, no one stops muslims from practicing their " religion" but muslims have no tolerance for non muslims. With islam in order to be a muslims in good standing you must follow all thats in the koran.

[-] 0 points by beautifulworld (23771) 10 years ago


[-] 1 points by grace89 (-42) 10 years ago

why? for stating the truth about islam?

[-] -1 points by beautifulworld (23771) 10 years ago

Gee, let me think. No. I called you a bigot because that is what you are. Go ahead post your big giant troll thingy now.

[-] 0 points by grace89 (-42) 10 years ago

Again I ask you why do you consider telling the truth about islam considered bigotry?

[-] 0 points by beautifulworld (23771) 10 years ago

Your version of the truth is hatred and is full of biogotry. That's why.

Your version of the "truth" uses the very same propaganda that protects certain other groups from having any semblance of the real truth being told about them.


[-] 0 points by shadz66 (19985) 10 years ago

What know you of ''the truth'' ?!!! You're really just an inveterate, incorrigible and irrelevant bigot whose poisonous preconceptions and personal prejudices are leading to nothing short of psychopathology !! Be advised 'Mr.Many Moniker Sock-Puppet' - that your deep hatred will corrode what is left of your soul !

Engaged readers will note your clear glee at trying to cherry pick right-wing and bigoted absurdities in order to malign well over a billion people and also remember that : ''Truth told with bad intent, beats all the lies you can invent" (William Blake, from 'Auguries Of Innocence').

Finally try to realise that Arch-US Allies, the despotic, ultra-right-wing Saudi Regime is right at the heart of the current problems in Muslim societies and the Islamic 'body-politic' at large.

multum in parvo ...

[-] 0 points by grace89 (-42) 10 years ago

May 25, 2013, 7 Shia muslims murdered by Sunni muslims in Iraq.May 25, 1013, 18 children injured by muslim suicide bomber in Dagastan, May 23, 2013, the taliban is Pakistan take "credit" for a bombing that murders 13 people and injures 16 others,may 17, 2013, a double bombing in a Sunni mosque in Iraq leaves 43 dead and 57 wounded ,Libya, May 13, 2013, car bomb at a hospital leaves 15 murdered and 41 wounded,May 11 2013, muslims bomb people trying to vote murdering 11, wounding 40. This is a small list of what goes on. And dont forget what happened at the Boston Marathon or what nadal hassan did at Ft Hood , while shouting allahu akbar. This happens daily around the world, muslims murdering muslims, muslims murdering non muslims.

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 10 years ago

I know your prejudiced voice very well and it reeks when you speak. Christians in Europe have been slaughtering each other in the name of religion, politics and nationalism for centuries but you can not extend these reasons and realisations to people of another religion !

Your mouth is completely shut, your brain is switched off and your heart blocked on that matter as you choose to crudely lump all Muslims together in order to justify your deep seated bigotry, hate and crass propaganda and you try to make out that you are some kind of an authority on the many variations and schools of thought amongst Muslims !!

Try to open your mind a little to realise that Arch-US Allies, the despotic, ultra-right-wing Saudi Regime is right at the heart of the problem and you will be looking through a mirror darkly and getting a glimpse of the real issues !!!

e tenebris, lux ...

[-] 2 points by Clancy (42) 10 years ago

Christians in Europe use to slaughter each other, the Catholics and Protestants declared peace between each other.

[-] 0 points by grace89 (-42) 10 years ago

The Inquisition ended centuries ago. Muslims are the only people STILL murdering in the name of their god.What posted was not propaganda, it was the truth. Every day muslims are murdering muslims and non muslims in the name of their god.

[-] 1 points by klatu (7) 10 years ago

syria - is it 70,000 or 80,000 ?

[-] -1 points by shadz66 (19985) 10 years ago

So, exactly how many sox are you wearing these days 'eric-bensdad-mideast-et-al-weiss' ?!

temet nosce ...

[-] 1 points by grace89 (-42) 10 years ago

Can you refute anything I posted about islam?

[-] -1 points by shadz66 (19985) 10 years ago

You're wearing your ass as a hat .. again, so can you refute that ?! To answer your question - yes !! Furthermore 'bens-bigoted-dad', I have done it many times to you before but even as I leave you and your divisive, crass, bigoted and abject Islamophobic propaganda, broken and shattered in the gutter - so you keep on reconstructing and coming back for more - like the evil, li'l cockroach that you are !!!

You want me to piss all over you again ? WTF kinda hate filled, twisted masochist are you ? Sheesh.

nosce te ipsum ...

[-] -2 points by grace89 (-42) 10 years ago

You live in a fantasy land of denial. The murders done by muslims to muslims and non muslims is not propaganda, it's a fact. 202 jihad attacks in 25 countries in april, murdering 957 people, injuring 2403.

[-] 0 points by shadz66 (19985) 10 years ago

''The propagandists's purpose is to make one set of people forget that certain other sets of people are human'' (Aldous Huxley).

I think that you're a 'graceless' Neo-Con War Pimp. Now try to imagine that I tried to tar all Jewish folk with the thoughts and dark views of Yitzhak Rabin's assassin or the most right-wing, chauvinistic Jews. Or that I tried to claim Jerry Falwell or Paedophile Catholic Priests or The Westboro Baptist Church are somehow speaking for all Christians - wtf would that then make me ?!

Yet you try to make out that you are some kind of an authority on the many variations and schools of thought amongst Muslims ! Like all empty vessels you make a lot of noise but hush now and consider :

Try to leave your deep seated exclusivism, supremacism and bigotry behind and try to see if you can possibly now aspire to embrace a common universal humanity, one based on reason, justice and love.

timendi causa est nescire ...

[-] -2 points by grace89 (-42) 10 years ago

The only people that are murdering people in the name of their religion on daily basis are muslims. THEY and only they are responsible for their " bad press"

[-] 5 points by Builder (4202) 10 years ago

The western lifestyle justifies the death of millions to keep the cheap oil flowing.

(quote) A senior U.N. official said Friday about half a million children under the age of 5 have died in Iraq since the imposition of U.N. sanctions 10 years ago.

Anupama Rao Singh, country director for the U.N. Children's Fund (UNICEF), made the estimate in an interview with Reuters.

``In absolute terms we estimate that perhaps about half a million children under 5 years of age have died, who ordinarily would not have died had the decline in mortality that was prevalent over the 70s and the 80s continued through the 90s,'' she said.

A UNICEF survey published in August showed the mortality rate among Iraqi children under 5 had more than doubled in the government-controlled south and center of Iraq during the sanctions.

Baghdad said the UNICEF survey proved that the sanctions were killing thousands of children every month and called for an immediate end to the embargo.

Rao Sigh blamed malnutrition for the high mortality rate among children.

``Nutrition was not a public health problem in Iraq in the 80s. It emerged as a major problem in the 90s and it increased steadily till about 1996,'' Singh said.

She said since the start of the U.N. oil-for-food program, malnutrition rates among children had stabilized, but death rates remained extremely high. (unquote)


And I'll note that your premise does not mention radicalised individuals, including the Mujahideen, who were originally trained, and equipped, by supposed Christian Americans. Some of these men had never read the Quran, before it was printed in their language by the CIA.

[-] -2 points by grace89 (-42) 10 years ago

the same old tired story about the children,. medicine and food were allowed in to iraq. saddam stole hundreds of millions meant for his people, thousands of which he murdered ( kurds) with poison gas. many muslims cant read, they are taught the koran by rote.

[-] 4 points by Builder (4202) 10 years ago

You might like to look at who aided that dastardly Saddam into his job in the first instance, and who supplied him with the poison gas weaponry he used on his Kurdish people. It would be the same people who printed those Qurans in new languages, and showed propaganda videos to radicalise islamist warriors.

[-] -1 points by grace89 (-42) 10 years ago

MSM? you must be kidding. I dont watch , read or listen to any of it. What conspiracy theories are you referring to? You didn't answer any of the questions I asked you.

[-] 2 points by Builder (4202) 10 years ago

You don't watch read or listen to any of it?

Then who informed you of it?

[-] -1 points by grace89 (-42) 10 years ago

A good muslim is one that follows the koran,and the koran is about total intolerance of those that do not adhere to it. saddam also , along with his sons, put livging people into industrial shredders and fed live people to dogs.

[-] 4 points by Builder (4202) 10 years ago

You're repeating propaganda that has been refuted already.

I guess you still believe the old "spreading democracy" chant of the globalist corporate criminal empire, right?

[-] -2 points by grace89 (-42) 10 years ago

Who? I inform myself by doing research.

[-] -2 points by grace89 (-42) 10 years ago

No I am not repeating propaganda. Are you unaware of what happend in London? Boston? what's happening in Sweden? What happened in France? Do you know what happened to Theo Van Gogh? Do you know what nadal hassan did at Ft Hood?

[-] 4 points by Builder (4202) 10 years ago

Are you baiting me?

Do you know that conspiracy theories are your stock-in-trade, but because your information comes from the MSM, you assume that they couldn't possibly lie to you?

[-] 2 points by shadz66 (19985) 10 years ago

"You are with us or you are with the terrorists” cowboy GWBush declared, using the tragedy of 9/11 to justify killing & displacing over a million Muslims in Iraq. And, ballasting our fracked economy with our endless “war on terror,” (“Bomb-Bomb-Iran” McCain has called for a 100 years’ war!), we and our allies can devastate Libya, occupy Palestine, threaten Iran with nuclear extirpation, seed a civil war in Syria and on and on without a moment’s pause! Can we really suppose they “hate us for our freedoms,” and overlook the fact that we are killing, maiming, torturing and occupying where they live ?" from :

''“Oppressed people cannot remain oppressed forever,” King warned in his letter; and even Samuel P. Huntington, who, in the 1990s, laid the academic/intellectual foundations for a “Clash of Civilizations” warned : “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion but rather by superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact - non-Westerners never do.”

You should ask yourself really and honestly as to who is murdering who, where and why and as you are not going to engage or open any links I append, I'll lay these down for others to consider :

Death and destruction visited upon people can cause psychopathology in the most unlikely places. You Are Propagandising (as you have been doing for a long time on this forum) and the Boston bombing has little to do with with Islam and more to do with violence, hatred and bigotry begetting the same. There is no defence for what those two nutters did but there are reasons - whether we can accept them or not !

As I had cause to say to another small minded poster today, the reality is that you right wing, heart-centre blocked, misanthropes and bigots will seldom if ever, engage with any view which requires an expansive compassion because in your sad world, loving others only makes you hate yourselves !!

nosce te ipsum ...

[-] 1 points by grace89 (-42) 10 years ago

Sept 11,2001 was not a" tragedy", it was an act of war.

[-] 1 points by gwb (42) 10 years ago

in stead of cowardly shrieking a label, do you have the courage to tell us EXACTLY which of grace89's statements is false - EXACTLY

do you know who theo vangough was?
do you know what a fatwah is?
have YOU read the quran?

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (23771) 10 years ago

Oh, gee wiz, another bigot. Do you always paint over a billion people with one huge generalizing stroke? Of course you do.

[-] -3 points by oranges (-42) 10 years ago

grace89 wasn't talking about over a billion people, he was talking about the religion of Islam. What he wrote about is indeed part of the religion's teachings. This has nothing to do with whether muslims will follow the teachings or not. For example, in the Qur'an it is stated that a muslim should not befriend non-muslims, but many muslims still do.

[-] 1 points by beautifulworld (23771) 10 years ago

When ungraceful talks about Islam, it talks about the people who adhere to it, whether explicitly or not. It is bigoted and hate mongering. Perhaps a good solid reading of the Bible and Torah are in order if you want to uncover some intolerance and hatred there as well.

[-] -2 points by oranges (-42) 10 years ago

All religions are based on intolerance and should all be illegal. They warp the mind. They are based on lies, on delusions. They wreck societies, they don't help them.

[-] 3 points by beautifulworld (23771) 10 years ago

Since there is a good bit of truth in that, it is very unfair to call out one over another. We live in a "Christian" nation here in America which acts anything but.

[-] 0 points by oranges (-42) 10 years ago

I'm not calling one out instead of another. I'm simply saying that grace89 is right when she says that Islam is political.

[-] 2 points by klatu (7) 10 years ago

doesnt Islam want to control the world
( under one caliphate sharia government )

just like the Catholics 1000 years ago or Constantine or Napoleon

[-] 1 points by Clancy (42) 10 years ago

Typical postmodern view.

[-] 0 points by oranges (-42) 10 years ago

He's right, Islam is a political system. That's why the ultimate goal of Islam is to create Sharia states where it has complete control of the law. For your information, I come from a muslim family, although I have since left the religion. This has unfortunately cost me many friends and family members. Only a few still talk to me.

[-] 0 points by mideast (506) 10 years ago

I congratulate your courage and feel sorry for those who have lost you.
I have read the Quran and the Bible & the New Testament

For the most part, the Jewish & Christian books are history lessons
For the most part, the Quran is a list of dictates a Muslim MUST observe
It includes butchering criminals, stoning, the inferiority of women, dictates to conquer the world, and hatred

AND not all Muslims are "fundamentalists" who obey this garbage,
BUT there are many MUSLIM countries that do

[-] 0 points by beautifulworld (23771) 10 years ago

It is a major world religion with 1.6 billion adherents.


[+] -4 points by oranges (-42) 10 years ago

Yes, it is. Your point? It still is a religion based on politics. The idea to create a Sharia state where Islam can control all the laws is the pinnacle of the teachings. Every muslim community dreams of having a Sharia state. What does the number of adherents have to do with the teachings of the Qur'an?

[-] 0 points by beautifulworld (23771) 10 years ago

It is not a political system. It is not a religion based on politics either.

[-] 0 points by oranges (-42) 10 years ago

It is. Have you read the Qur'an? Do you not know about Sharia? The Qur'an clearly stipulates what political laws should be enforced on a people. It stipulates in detail exactly how a society should be run politically, and encourages its followers to create such societies. There are many countries which are run by the political laws of Islam, laws found in the Qur'an. I don't know this to be true for any other religion.

[-] -2 points by beautifulworld (23771) 10 years ago

A religious book is not a political book. If people are ruled by religious leaders then you have a theocracy. You may be mistaking some countries that have theocracies and using your broad stroke on the entire religion of Islam. Makes no sense to me. Sorry. No point in going on with this discussion as I know who you are and your roundabout way of using logical fallacies.

[-] 2 points by oranges (-42) 10 years ago

The Qur'an is not just a religious book, it details laws and regulations on how to run a society politically, and also encourages its followers to build such societies. Sharia is that part of the book.

From your answers, it is clear you have not read the Qur'an. Indeed, furthering this discussion will lead nowhere. Good day.

[-] -1 points by mideast (506) 10 years ago

2:39 But they who disbelieve, and deny Allah’s revelations, will reside in the fire of hell.
2:61 Humiliation and wretchedness were stamped upon the Jews by Allah
2:65 Allah made Jews who broke the Sabbath, disbelieved in Allah's revelations and slew the prophets - into apes
2:96 Jews are the greediest of mankind.
2:191 And slay the disbelievers.
3:12 Say unto those who disbelieve: Ye shall be overcome and gathered unto Hell
3:15 For those who keep from evil receive Paradise & Gardens underneath which rivers flow wherein they will abide, and pure companions, and contentment from Allah. [ heaven & virgins ].
3:73 And believe not , save in one who followeth Allah.
4:3 Marry of the women, who seem good to you, two or three or four [ polygamy ]
4:14 And whoso disobeyeth Allah and His messenger and transgresseth His limits, He will make him enter fire
4:34 Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other. As for those women from
whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart [ no sex ], and beat them Online, I found an English Quran in PDF format from the Monothiest Group. On page ten of their descriptive introduction, they explain how some translators add the word “lightly” to “beat them” command.
The Quran follows the 14 page intro. I looked to see if their version of 4:34 added the word “lightly” – It did not! In fact, they DROPPED THE BEAT THEM command completely! Who do you trust? 4:56 Those who disbelieve Our revelations, We shall expose them to the Fire.
4:57 And as for those who believe and do good works, We shall make them enter Gardens underneath which rivers flow – to dwell therein for ever; there for them are pure companions [ paradise & virgins ]
4:74 Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other, on him We shall bestow a vast reward.
[ see 4:57 ]
4:89 Choose no friend nor helper from among disbelievers [ how to form peaceful alliances ??? ]
4:93 Whoso slayeth a believer of Allah, his reward is hell for ever. [ is this the strongest indictment of Islam’s insanity – how many thousands of Allah’s Shiites and Allah’s Sunnis have murdered each other? ]
5:33 The only reward of those who make war upon Allah will be that they will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet on alternate sides cut off
5:38 As for the thief, cut off their hands.
5:51 Take not the Jews and the Christians for friends.
5:60 Allah hath turned some Jews into apes and swine
5:63 Rabbis and priests - Verily evil is their handiwork.
5:101 Believers! Ask not of things which, if they were made unto you, would trouble you; but if ye ask of them when the
Qur'an is being revealed, they will be made known unto you. [ Know the Quran – the only source – Don’t ask any questions ! Is this why so much of Arab education is memorizing the Quran– instead of math or science or {real} history ]
6:157 Who doeth greater wrong than he who denieth the revelations of Allah, and turneth away from them?
6:159 As for those who sunder ( split ) their religion and become schismatics, no concern at all hast thou with them. [ Sunder? As in Sunni & Shiite ? ]
7:166 Allah said unto the Jews: Be ye apes despised and loathed!
8:34 If ye fear a woman’s disloyalty & ill-conduct, admonish them, refuse to share their bed, beat them.
8:39 Fight with them [unbelievers] until there is no more persecution, and all religions are for Allah.
8:58 And if thou fearest treachery from any folk, then throw back their treaty.
[ If YOU believe they will break the treaty – you can break the treaty first ]
9:1 Ye(Moslems) are not bound by treaties made with idolaters.
9:4 Excepting those of the idolaters with whom ye (Muslims) have a treaty, and who have since abated nothing of your right nor have supported anyone against you.
9:5 Slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captiv e), and besiege them, and prepare for them ambush.
9:30 Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah; Chri stians say: Messiah is the son of Allah. Allah's curse be on them!
9:33 Allah will cause Islam to prevail over all religion, however much the idolaters may be averse.
9:41 Go forth, light-armed and heavy-armed, and strive with your wealth and your lives in the way of Allah! 9:107 Non-Moslems verily are liars.
10:93 And We (Allah) verily did allot unto the Children of Israel a fixed abode (land), and did provide them with good things; [ then why do today’s Moslems want to steal Israel ]
16:101 And when We put a revelation in place of (another) revelation, - and Allah knoweth best what He revealeth – they say: Lo! thou art but inventing. [ This is the doctreine of abrogation that means a later “laws” replace earlier “laws”. ]
18:26 Allah maketh none to share In reply to: His government. [ Allah is dictator; democracy is heracy ]
20:71 (Pharaoh) said: Ye put faith in him before I give you leave. Now surely I shall cut off your hands and your feet alternately, and I shall crucify you on the trunks of palm trees. [ Egyptians never used or even knew of crucifiction ]
21:33 And He it is Who created the night and the day, and the sun and the moon. They float, each in an orbit.
[As the bible pretends to know physics too ] 24:2 The adulterer and the adulteress, scourge ye each one of them (with) a hundred stripes. And let a party of believers witness their punishment.
33:50 We have made lawful unto thee thy wives unto whom thou hast paid their dowries, and those whom thy right hand possesseth of those whom Allah hath given thee as spoils of war. [ Poligamy; “thy right hand possetheth” is the Quranic term for slaves. You can marry your slaves. - harem ]
36:40 It is not for the sun to overtake the moon, nor doth the night outstrip the day. They float each in an orbit. [ again – wrong physics – which, like the Bible, is a who cares stupidity – but it clearly shows this book was not
created by Allah – unless Allah can make a stupid mistake. ]
37:40-8 Single-minded slaves of Allah - with them are those of modest gaze, with lovely eyes, [ obedient slaves of Allah will enjoy a Garden filled with lovely-eyed virgins in Paradise.]
38:52 And with them are those of modest gaze, companions in Paradise. [ virgins ]
44:54 In Paradise, believers shall wed them unto fair ones with wide, lovely eyes.
47:4 Now when ye meet in battle those who disbelieve, then it is smiting of the necks [ decapitation ]
56:24-33 Believers will be reward for what they used to do. Among thornless lote-trees And clustered plantains, And spreading shade, And water gushing, And fruit in plenty And raised couches; And made them virgins, Allah made virgins to be lovers and friends to those - Lovers, friends.
60:1 Choose not My enemy and your enemy (disbelievers) for allies and friendship. 60:9 Allah forbiddeth you only those who warred against you on account of religion and have driven you out from your homes and helped to drive you out, that ye make friends of them. Whosoever maketh friends of them – (All) such are wrong- doers. [ So Iraq’s Sunnis & Shiites are ordered by Allah to never become allies ???? ]
63:9 O ye who believe! Let not your wealth nor your children distract you from remembrance of Allah. Those who do so, they are the losers. [ This may be my personal “worst” = ignore your children to serve Allah ]
76:24 So submit patiently to thy Lord's command, and obey not of them any guilty one or disbeliever. [ Does this mean a believer can negotiate in bad faith with a disbeliever? Or break treaties? ]
86:13 Lo! this (Quran) is a conclusive word [ this is why democracy cannot work ]

[-] -1 points by beautifulworld (23771) 10 years ago

Oh really. Here's the definition of the Quran. "The Quran English kor-AHN ; Arabic: القرآن‎ al-qurʼān, IPA, literally meaning "the recitation", also transliterated Qurʼan or Koran, is the central religious text of Islam, which Muslims believe to be the verbatim word of God (Arabic: الله‎, Allah)." Wikipedia

[-] 0 points by oranges (-42) 10 years ago

Please read the Qur'an. And educate yourself on the topic of Sharia.


A short quote from the above link: (please note: Sharia means legislation - this should provide you with a clue)

Sharia (Arabic: شريعة‎ šarīʿah, IPA: [ʃaˈriːʕa], "legislation"; sp. shariah, sharīʿah;[1] also قانون إسلامي qānūn ʾIslāmī) is the moral code and religious law of Islam. Sharia deals with many topics addressed by secular law, including crime, politics, and economics, as well as personal matters such as sexual intercourse, hygiene, diet, prayer, and fasting.

[-] -1 points by beautifulworld (23771) 10 years ago

Read the Bible and the Torah and understand the insanity of those people. LOL.

[-] 1 points by oranges (-42) 10 years ago

Red herring.

We were talking about whether Islam was political or not. There's no Islam bashing in stating the fact that it is political. All educated muslims would tell you it is.

[-] -3 points by oranges (-42) 10 years ago

Another quote from the above link:

The reintroduction of sharia is a longstanding goal for Islamist movements globally, including in Western countries, but attempts to impose sharia have been accompanied by controversy,[2][3][4] violence,[5][6][7][8][9][10] and even warfare such as the Second Sudanese Civil War.

[-] 1 points by bensdad (8977) 10 years ago

whose extremists?
who defines extremists?
violence is not the answer to anything
unless you own defence industry stock,
or gun manufacturer stock

[-] -2 points by highlander21 (-46) 10 years ago

extremism = bombing, terrorist acts, acid attacks on girls going to school, poisoning of the water supply, beheading, stoning. Now do you understand.

[-] -2 points by redandbluestripedpill (333) 10 years ago

When humans consciously realize they are controlled by their unconscious mind. Beliefs are of the unconscious.

[+] -4 points by quantumystic (1710) from Memphis, TN 10 years ago

you must be slow. if we let them worship as they choose they will kill or convert us all. retard.