Forum Post: 2 U.S. flags burned at Occupy Charlotte land group in jail........
Posted 12 years ago on Dec. 30, 2011, 10:17 p.m. EST by headlesscross
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2 U.S. flags burned at Occupy Charlotte land group in jail
By Ron Lee, Reporter - bio | email By Chris Dyches, Web Content Producer - email
CHARLOTTE, NC (WBTV) - Four protesters, including the spokesman of Occupy Charlotte, were charged after setting fire to two American flags early Friday near the Occupy camp in Center City, police said.
Charlotte-Mecklenburg police weren't sure earlier if the four men who set fire to two flags were associated with the Occupy Charlotte movement.
But, WBTV has learned that one of the men is the media spokesman for the Occupy group and has been the contact person listed on press releases from Occupy Charlotte.
The fires happened with in feet of the group's encampment.
Earlier reports indicated one flag was burned, but a police report says that 2 US flags were burned.
Officers said they noticed the suspects lighting something on fire directly in front of the Occupy camp along Trade Street around 12:30 a.m. Friday morning.
Police swarmed the area, and detained the men while firefighters were called in to knock down the flames. About $30 worth of damage was caused to landscaping at the site.
It was only after the fire was out did officials figure out what was burning, the American flag.
Police said the men claimed they were burning the flag in protest. Burning the flag is not illegal, however doing it outside of a fire pit, and within ten feet from flammable tents poses a problem.
Officers arrested 20-year-old Stephen Christopher Morris of Matthews, 28-year-old Jason Bargert of Charlotte, 23-year-old Michael Alan Behrle of Matthews and 19-year-old Alex Macon Tyler of Fort Mill.
Bargert is the media spokesman for Occupy Charlotte and in earlier media reports said he had been with the group since "the beginning."
All four men were charged with being careless with fire. That charge is a misdemeanor under the city ordnance.
Police officers told WBTV the protesters gave them a verbal tongue-lashing while being detained, calling then fascists, as well as using other colorful words.
Crime Scene Investigators collected the remains of the flag, and placed it into evidence. A cigarette lighter was also confiscated.
Why was there no uproar, when the Boston PD threw them to the ground and stepped on them to get to their next arrest?
I believe they tore them from the hands of veterans.
Then they gathered them up, and threw them in garbage trucks along with everything else.
Where were calls for arrest, or discipline?
From the "conservatives"
From the teabaggers?
From Mr. P.?
There were none. They pretended it didn't happen.
Hypocrites!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You can't (nor should you be able to) legally harass, prosecute, or jail people for burning the flag. Burning the flag is also not that big a deal as far as I'm concerned, because at the end of the day the flag has little or no intrinsic property value, and my loyalty is to my country rather than any particular symbol or emblem thereof.
That said, it's incredibly mind-numbingly stupid to do that in the name of the movement. There are a lot of people who aren't going to see it the way I do and are going to treat this as evidence that we hate America, and in doing this you've lit a fire under them of exactly the wrong sort. Whether or not they may have agreed with you on some things until now, this act will permanently turn a lot of them off. What you need to remember is that it takes ten seconds to lose someone's trust, but it may take years to gain it back. Keep that in mind next time you guys want to make a scene.
Ron Paul wants states to be able to jail flag burners. I say it is a legitimate form of protest against one's govt. These burners must have been jailed for illegal fire, not for "burning the flag."
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Flag burners should be deported and their citizenship revoked.
I have burned a flag. I am protesting my corrupt government, I have every right to do so. You can't stop me.
I agree it is your right and you should not be prosecuted. That being said, it is absolutely no way for Occupy to gain any kind of support for the movement from the 99% which they claim to represent. Things like this only confirm that Occupy has become representative of left-wing radicals, not mainstream America.
I thought I would never burn a flag. I said all hell would have to break loose in order for me to burn a flag in protest. Guess what, that day has come. USA is corrupt and must regain its honor.
I believe we should have the right to burn the flag. But that doesn't mean it's good. Or that we should. It's extremely sad and disrespectful.
specifically - what does burning a flag do to help the movement? or improve our country?
isn't it just as selfish as a merchant raising his prices in a poor community.
It does nothing. It's a waste of time and a childish act.
The flag represents the idea of a nation, it does not represent the current state of the nation. This is one of the very many things BlueRose fails to understand. You should not listen to him. He is not an intellectual. He's mostly likely a high school student.
There are problems in America, but even after those are solved, it will still remain America. Burning the flag represents a loss of hope in the nation. It symbolizes the idea that improvement is impossible and that the nation should be destroyed.
Nothing could be further from the truth. America is full of problems, but it has shown time and time again that problems can be solved and things can improve.
It's not the time to burn the flag; to give up. It's time to raise it high and promise to collectively pour all our blood and sweat to make this country better than it has ever been. If there has ever been a time for hope an effort, it is now.
I'm not even American. I'm Canadian. But, if I were there with you, I would raise the flag up high and call for everyone to work hard to improve the nation. If BlueRose was around burning the flag, I'd give him a round house kick he'd never forget. He's an idiot. Don't pay attention to his ramblings.
We can go around burning down entire forests and ecosystems. We can go around burning down entire third-world villages and stealing their resources. We can go around collapsing entire economies for imperialistic purposes. We can go around dumping trash and spilling oil into our oceans. We can destroy the ozone layer and pollute the world with toxic chemicals.
But we can't burn a flag?
What's childish is even worrying about something so petty when there are countless more important matters in this world. You are an idiot Thrasymaque, not an intellectual.
Who ever said you couldn't burn the flag?
I said this act represents giving up on the nation and wanting it destroyed. If this how you feel, you certainly have a right to express this ideology. No one is stopping you. I'll be the first to defend your right to free speech as silly as I think your ideas may be.
Personally, I prefer taking a positive approach. I prefer construction over destruction. I'm happy those in the past didn't lose hope when America had slaves. Instead, they decided to improve the nation by protesting to abolish slavery. I prefer this over symbolically abandoning the nation by burning the flag.
In order to construct anything you have to acquire materials from another source. By doing this, you've already destroyed something else.
Constructions don't always need materials. You can construct laws and ideas. In any case, you don't need to completely destroy the foundations of something to add to it with construction. I can construct a balcony on my house without having to destroy the house. Your thinking is too literal.
Burning the flag represents losing hope in the nation and wanting it destroyed instead of repaired. You're certainly allowed to express your opinion that America should be destroyed. I never said you couldn't. I don't share it, and that's what Iv'e expressed above.
We can agree to disagree.
So you think adding MORE laws is the solution to fighting against oppression? That's insanity. Adding a brand new balcony to my dilapidated house is not going to fix anything.
No. I think deleting some laws, altering others, and creating some more is the solution. I don't think destroying the republic to replace it with a system of direct democracy that uses a general assembly on each street corner is the solution. Not by a long shot. This idea has not even been tested in practice.
I believe a republic is a very good political structure. It just needs to be kept in check to thwart away the possibility that it becomes an ogliarchy. This is what has happened to US. There's no reason this couldn't be reversed with a correct revision of the laws. A republic is just a political structure with representatives and laws. Its power resides in the laws. That's the key.
Are you serious? Do you think all OWS cares about is getting a general assembly on every corner? All you are is a misinformation propaganda machine. If you are not even an American citizen, what makes you think your ideas should hold any weight in what takes place on U.S. soil?
"It just needs to be kept in check to thwart away the possibility that it becomes an ogliarchy. "
The possibility of an oligarchy? If you'd only open your eyes, you would see that an oligarchy is the current reality. What OWS is trying to do is root out this corrupt elite.
That's exactly what they write on their websites. Why are they writing this if it's not true?
I believe in my ideas. Why should I assume they have no weight just because I'm not a US citizen? It's not because I'm not from US that I can't understand US.
In any case, these are not my ideas, but those that OWS has printed on their websites. Their tactics seem to go hand in hand with this ideology. They don't make demands because they don't want to work with the government, but instead want to create a political revolution. I don't see any reason not to believe them at face value. They've been honest and forthcoming about their intentions since the beginning in my opinion.
Why do you believe OWS is lying about their intentions? Are you expecting them to suddenly start making demands and getting involved in the political process in an effort to improve the republic? If so, when?
Actually the flag represents war, it is a wartime flag. America has a peacetime flag http://www.lawfulpath.com/ref/whchflag.shtml . WOW SHOCKING huh and it is not a conspiracy theory.
Interesting in theory, but for all practical reasons only one flag is used. I have very seldom seen the other so-called peacetime flag. In the mind of Americans, there is only one flag. Kids who burn the flag in an act of protest don't differentiate between the two, and, even if they did, their message wouldn't be understood because most people wouldn't don't know about the second flag. What's important when making a message by using a symbol is the practical meaning of that symbol, not its theoretical meaning.
Yes but in reality there are two flags for our country even if you don't know it. Welcome to the place called reality!!!
Thrasy boy that was VERY well said. America would LOVE to have you anytime
I did not burn it for this movement.
Sleep w/railroad track as a pillow.
Ron PauI 2012!!!
Just don't claim you represent the 99% while you are doing it.
Feel free to protest as you wish. My intent is for you to hear me when I say this country is f'd up.
You are an idiot. Let it go. Let it go.
You don't represent the Occupy Movement either. Many heroes died in battle for that flag, at Manassas, Bastogne and Bunker Hill. The Occupy Movement supports the brave combat veterans who risked their lives for our freedom. Hell, I had close relatives in the First Allied Airborne Army during WW2. They were combat veterans who loved the flag.
@Mooks. Just to clarify... My statement came under yours. I was agreeing with your statement "Just don't claim you represent the 99% while you are doing it." :)
People like Bluerose have probably never been to a GA before, and certainly arent that involved.
Occupy the Mindz
This is not a problem. It's a blessing from the most generous gods.
What if he hasn't? I already stated when I joined that I was an OWS supporter and was unable to attend. You have a problem with that? Do you have a problem with people that support the movement? I notice that you leave your little rightwing trolls alone but do attack people who make valid comments.
Wonder why that is......
D=R=Corruption. There arent too many righties on here. Do I really need to waste my time telling them that gay marriage should be legal, abortions is a personal choice, etc?
Im pretty sure most here agree with me.
The only reason you attack with such vengance is because you cant handle the truth that neither party supports any of us.
The only reason I attack with such vengeance is because they are paid for trolls. You know this AND you side with them. That is odd. .Is it not?
We don't have too many threads on abortion and gay marriage though. We have a lot that deal with homelessness, food justice, robosigning etc .
Why would you say I side with them? I'm socially liberal and fiscally conservative. I think we need campaign finance reform and re-instate Glass Steagall.
I think the FDA needs to start closing the doors on the big food companies, and let the little guys try to do something.
I'm anti war, have been forever.
So you tell me which of your two parties, in a nation of 300 million fuckin people, I belong to. Remember, we only have two official choices. Which corner would you like to shove me into.
It wasn't a corner I was thinking of shoving you into.
Ah, more vengful speak and no dialogue.
You are great asset to the movement :)
I actually thought you were going somewhere with that post on how welfare destroys families of the poor. Are you planning on backing up that statement you made to Flip? Get your head out of your ass and get in the game.
If you look at the crime rates, the single parent households, and the overall problems of the poor communities that recieve a lot of welfare, I think its pretty obvious its not working.
What is the solution is a pretty complex topic. Would you like to start?
There is a correlation between poverty and crime. As has been noted, that the changes that Clinton made actually took something that was working and altered it to the point of something ineffective and harmful.
Unfortunately, there has always been a history of crime prior to the evolution of welfare. What we do need to look at is what is now a felony that would not have been a felony before.
The way that many crimes have been historically treated is out of sight out of mind. By this I mean that rather than address the problem, it was far easier to sweep it under the rug and as long as it wasn't seen by the upper middle class then it didn't exist. You will find this is true under prohibition and prostitution.
However, it is a mistep to pretend that single parent households contribute to it. This is why: the concept of a stay at home parent in a nuclear family is relatively recent and has been applicable only to middle class to upperclass white people and is now repeated every time there is a financial crisis. People of color and poorer white people have often not married and for most there never was a stay at home parent as it was necessary to work.
If you are looking at overall juvenile delinquent stats you will find that most crimes are committed between after school to about 11 pm. Unfortunately, there aren't too many 9-5 jobs out there. Most of your jobs are now swing shift. Even with a two parent home there is no guarantee that both parents will be at home during those hours.
I have solutions. Are you ready?
Yes. I would like to hear them.
You should move to North Korea. You would be WELL accepted there GF
You should move to North Korea, you seem to need a Daddy figure more than a republic.
You can say this till you're blue in the face. They dont care
Right is not equal to good.
Please read this with an open mind- you have four sentences with three I's and one me.
please consider that "we" and "us" is more important than "I"
burning a flag is your right, and you want to, and it makes you feel better
but you must understand how it hurts us and OWS and our movement
by alienating so many Americans who MIGHT be open to our message
You're proud of burning the flag. How brave of you , how stupid.
You should have yours revoked and move to NK. I may argue against OWS, but NEVER their right to burn a US flag.
Really??? Burning a flag is illegal in the US!? Looks like they burned the 1st Amendment. What a scam.
Actually burning the flag is the proper way to retire it.
http://www.wikihow.com/Retire-a-U.S.-Flag
Ceremonial Burning of the Flag after Ceremony of Final Tribute.
This is the proper way, not endorsing what was done in protest just some FYI
I've never felt the need to burn out flag.
I've seen more abuse of the flag being done by corporations, then I've ever seen before.
Today, I would consider burning one, just based on it's country of manufacturing origin.
These corporate " country men", have NO respect for the flag beyond the higher profits they can make, manufacturing it in China.
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Whoops................your faux rage is showing.
Remember - existing civil laws about starting ANY filre
need to be enforced
If you have to burn the flag, print it on flash paper like P+T did so
it burns in 1 second and there is no evidence
A better use for the American flag-
Bring a 12"x18" flag in your pocket
If approached aggressively by the police
hold the flag over your face to protect from spray
and --- imagine the image in the press coverage !
pretending to stand for the symbol of the flag is worse than burning it. and that's being done all the time for mere profit. that's just realistic perspective in my opinion.
I love how the 'About $30 worth of damage' was just thrown in there, that's all they care about. I still remember the We Are One protest in which the protestors occupied their state building and taped their flyers on the walls - it was then said that hundreds of dollars of damage was done due to the tape residue.
Don't burn flags, its the politicians that need to be burned.
When I was a teen protesting Desert Storm I did a public flag burning. It does not make the point you want. The people who's eyes you are trying to open glaze over in contempt.
Plus, I thought this protest (OWS, 99% movement) has an overall undeclared goal of addressing financial and social inequality and taking back or country. Who's country, our country .... should be our cry. The flag represents US the 99% it's our flag. I say we make it central to the movement displayed with pride. I would love to see the flag and respect of, become synonymous with the movement. Don't give "fixed news " headlines that discredit OWS/99% ..
After reading the threads on this post, I'd say that for SCOTUS to have debated the legality of burning cotton shows the disconnect our government has with its people. With that said, I believe that burning a symbol that represents what some have died for and others have admired their whole life is compulsive, petty and will make the protests seem shallow and cheap. There are other ways to protest than degrading symbolic Stars and Stripes. After all, Is not the reason for protesting to garner support for your cause?
Very well said.
more nwo tyranny
@GirlFriday I don't seek to control their actions. I simply wish to voice my criticism of said actions. To be clear where I stand on this, so that observers and participants will witness another perspective.
And that you have.
Burning the US flag makes no sense for OWS. We should be flying it high. It is ours, not theirs.
What a stupid, futile gesture! These mindless acts will turn away independents.
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Burn OWSers in effigy. Set a toilet on fire.
I personally believe that the Flag stands for more than just The United States. It stands for all of those who died and sacrificed to protect and build this country. That is why I believe it is disrespectful to burn the Flag. But you still have the right unless doing so put others in danger in which case you do not, as this apparently did.
lol
@shooz Two wrongs don't make a right. ~ Ancient English aphorism.
One lost on GirlFriday and his imaginary entourage.
Ah yes, turn the other cheek. You lack critical thinking skills.
Oh? I thought I lacked poopshanks and donkeypunching apes...
You're pure trash, Friday, whatever it is you believe.
By the time you learn how not to be a bucket of douche, it will be approximately 6 months too late.
What's worse, your wit is waning.
Your spelling is getting worse. I think you are taking on too many alts and spreading yourself too thin.
I have no "alts". Just me, just this name ^^. And I fixed the spelling. By all rights it SHOULD be two "n's".
Now, you were saying? (please make a valid relevant point regarding the bullshit we've been hurling at eachother)
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Excuse me? They have every right to burn a US flag. I am not a member of OWS, but I sure as hell would not want someone arrested for burning one. Unless it was near something flammable, which this apparently was. When you call burning a flag communism, however, you sound like the Communist.
i support there right and there doing it. it just "looks bad" to the general American public, and any going to church, traditional types, and any republicans.
perhaps true.
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I'm not an occupier. However, with a moniker like nappybegone, sounds like you have way bigger issues than opposition to free speech.
Yeah..............right.
Get off your knees, Koch whore.
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Get off your knees, Koch whore, while you still can.
The end of the OWS is at the door.
It never ends, babydoll. It doesn't stop.
Address the issues now while you have the opportunity.
You occupiers burn a flag in my presence you better be prepared for a beat down.
ah yes - violence - the best solution to any problem -
as proven by hitler & bush & napoleon
of course some brave soul might walk up to you and burn a flag in a safe box, then get beaten by you, get you arrested and off the streets for a year or two.
People burn flags because other people are stupid enough to become emotionally attached to a flag. How fucking dumb are you to put so much emotional attachment to an object that can be destroyed?
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Wow, I have not heard that slang in a long time. You need to be entrepreneurial and innovative with your words. The way your words are so mundane and retroactive makes me believe you came right out of a stereotypical communist nation. Be inventive, after all, you are American.
You hypocritical dumb ass.
"How fucking dumb are you to put so much emotional attachment to an object that can be destroyed?"
Do you mean like an unborn child,a loved one (object of affection),a home you own? These are all objects that can be destroyed. So you're too fucking smart to become emotionally attached to anything. Apparently this would explain your cold,fucked up attitude.
You're fucking dumb to make an asinine statement like that.
The American Flag is an object that countless Americans have died for defending as a symbol of our nation.
Anyone who burns the American Flag defiles and diminishes the memory of the Americans who've died for it.
No, like as an inanimate object. You don't develop an emotional attachment because that makes you an easy target. You fucking douche. Patriotism should be STRONG enough that the burning of a flag is not your weak point.
Nobody died for the American flag. It is a flag. Get your shit together or get played like a dipshit for the rest of your life. You are nothing more than an easy target.
Americans die in service of this nation,the American Flag is a symbol of our nation,thus it should be given respect. This is not a "weak point". Where the hell did you come up with that gem of stupidity?
What part of this fact gives you such a cognitive lapse?
You aren't an American Patriot,you're a Leftist hack. You do however represent the anti-American,Leftist OWS very well.
Your dumb as fuck and you deserve to cry every time somebody destroys the flag.
And you deserve to live in Cuba, Venezuela,China and probably should be right now struggling to survive in North Korea,cause you sure don't understand or appreciate America.
Don't talk to me about "those in service" until you get off your fat ass and fight for them when they come back. When you shed tears, and pound on doors, to make sure that these people do not lose benefits then I'll believe in how much you really care about it.
Yeah,like you would ever do anything to help "those in service". You revile them and defile them,they fight wars for this country (with the American Flag,they pledge allegiance to,the same one you want to burn) and all you Progs hate anybody who would drop a bomb or pull a trigger. You're all talk and no walk,except to promote your anti-American propaganda.
You have no idea what you are talking about. You little whimpering ninny.
The truth is hard to rebuff,you've done been called out for what you are and calling me a "little whimpering ninny" is like the final exhale from a dying body.
Sit on a pole and rotate, you grotesquely disgusting motherfucking whale fucker.
The only truth is that you are here with your faux fucking rage. Again. :D
Seems girlie has Tourettes.
Shut the fuck up.
It isn't tied to an inanimate object, you dumb ass. You are weak as hell.
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Bored, Frog?
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I am in a fantastic mood.
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Cognitive lapse again?
Okay,once again for your untreated ADD.
Patriotism is linked to the American Flag,it is a symbol of my country. As I'm sure you must be a Communist or other such anti-American Proglodyte and are having a hard time with reality and facts.
The point from which you are debating (if it could be called that) is beyond weak and completely lame.
That symbol is mass produced in foreign countries by slaves and is plastered all over useless products and used for warmongering propaganda.
Here's to hoping you find yourself on the next boat to North Korea.
Pitiful.
Yes,your first reply was as you said "Pitiful",as is your anti-American ideology.
I wonder if you will say something even more stupid if I keep responding. This is a fun game.
Don't talk to me about "those in service" until you get off your fat ass and fight for them when they come back. When you shed tears, and pound on doors, to make sure that these people do not lose benefits then I'll believe in how much you really care about it.
You don't have patriotism, you have Jerry Springer fever.
Captain corn hole is still here! How's your bung feeling these days?
I didn't think a piece of shit man mattress could be so motherfucking hideous until I met your repugnant ass
Bored, Frog?
Your hole must be gapping by now. Can you fist yourself still?
May your days be filled with anguish and the faces of your enemies be the last thing you see, you degenerate peon.
Shouldn't you be faux-protesting somewhere? Show your hole.
I worked for the VBA for the past two+ years, until I lost my contract. I'm also a Vet taking care of a disabled Vet. I also have ADHD. Burning the US flag was a STUPID and pointless move.
I come from a long line of vets, and have 2 brothers that are vets. They don't have a problem with it. So, while you may think it is stupid. I find it far more stupid to watch people give the emotional reaction that is wanted. They are literally turned into blubbering idiots. That is all it takes.
Burning the US flag was STUPID! What is the message? What does it say about OWS? I'm not one of those who get all agitated when I hear the flag was burned. I find it more senseless than offensive. But I do happen to find this particular act offensive.
I really don't give a fuck what you think. It says that the fucktard that started this thread is probably heehawing it up for his faux rage, kind of like you.
I don't want to be associated with people burning the US flag as part of an action to reclaim what it symbolizes. I have a cornered flag that was sitting on the highest shelf in my study on 9/11/01. I still keep it cornered, waiting for a country worthy of flying it over. The wave of patriotism that erupted after the attacks offended deeply. Where were these "patriots" on 9/10/01? When I saw someone had replaced the US flag in their 9/11 motivated car-mounted flag stands with Washington Redskins' flags, I realized things were returning to normal.
I thought very hard about taking my flag down to McPheresen Square to fly over the camp there.
That seems less attractive to me now.
I wouldn't.
The cops will raid the camp and toss it in the garbage, after throwing it on the ground to get to you..
You cannot control the actions of all of the people in any given area. You know it and I know it and everyone else knows it.
Oh looky here you know how to edit.
"You don't have patriotism, you have Jerry Springer fever." You wasted your time to hit me with that lame ass reply?
You're the most butt sucking chicken fucking cum fountain I know.
Better?
Actually that was pretty funny.
I do try.
Service for this nation = war = bombing other nations.
WWII=war keynesianism=1929bailout The model was later replicated.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expenditures
Agreed !!
Muslims burn U.S. Flags. Dumbasses burn U.S. Flags. An ineffective act that just pisses people off and closes their minds.
I bet you believe Muslims burn bibles too, don't you?
No. But they do burn American flags.
Anti-Americans burn flags, idiot. Them being Muslim has nothing to do with it.
Correction- those who don't currently like America burn flags. Fair enough?
Stupid!
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No they do not.