Forum Post: 2 DEMANDS EVERYONE(Liberal andConservative) can agree with
Posted 12 years ago on Oct. 17, 2011, 11:42 a.m. EST by OnePeople
(103)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
Sever the chords that bind wall street to capitol Hill.
1: END CORPORATE CAMPAIGN CONTRIBUTIONS
2: RESTRICT LOBBYISTS ACCESS TO CONGRESS
These are two simple things everyone in occupy wall street can stand behind. So unite under this front, use it as your platform, become a serious and organized movement. These two simple things will help eliminate the effects of corporate greed, they will take the majority of the voice back from corporations and return it to the majority of the people in america, where it belongs.
Demand legislation ending the corporations ability to contribute to elected officials campaigns. No one wants officials to owe any favors to corporations.
The lobbyists over the past century have requested some very very bad pieces of legislation, and even worse they were listened to. We want the people to be heard above the corporations self interests.
I would support both of these. However, it may be hard to really define lobbying, let alone ban it.
I would like to see a poll on these to are just how broad support really is.
That said I think these are just a start.
Big money is not justcorporations.
Check out the poll for bite-size ideas to be added to a Money-Out-Of-Politics Constitutional Amendment and please add your voice and vote your support: http://occupywallst.org/forum/poll-what-do-you-want-in-a-money-out-of-politics-a/
Without details I would not support these, especially number 2. While many powerful lobbying entities are problematic and some very greedy, you are misunderstanding what a lobby is. There are lobbying organizations for a wide spectrum of issues including ecological and educational lobbies. I assume you are referring to Corporate lobbyists which would need to be specifically detailed.
Special interests lobbying is not in the best interest of the majority. Though lobbying is necessary to ensure that certain ideas and interests are conveyed to those with the ability to act on them. So how do we make the system more open honest and transparent. How do we change it from corporate and special interests lobbyists whispering in the ears of the congress to something were more people have a say and can debate those issues?
Open lobbying forums? Lobbying debates? I'll have to make a more educated stance on improving the lobbying system we have today. With more details :-)
http://occupywallst.org/forum/implementing-direct-democracy-right-now/
I am not completely sure, but my overall perspective on it is to look at the fine details. Small alterations or loose interpretations can have negative effects in the future.
Trade Unions are special interest groups looking out for the self-interest of their members. Is that inherently wrong? Can it be manipulated?
The root problem is not lobbying. Lobbying is how citizens, groups, as well as corporations address Congress. Lobbying is a tool which is currently dominated by very wealthy interest groups. We are all motivated by self-interest, it defines this heterogeneous environment. The problem is the dominating mechanisms (economic and political) which benefit a wealthy minority.
To draft such a detailed plan I would need a longer time and many lawyers.
Need knowledge, self-control, and RESOURCES to have freedom and if 1% owns all the resources the rest can not be vary free. Life is all about relationships and getting them right. Put your faith in truth which is about knowing relationships in your life. Put your hope in freedom which is about choosing relationships in your life. Put your trust in love which is about caring relationships in your life. Truth, freedom, love are good. Deceit, slavery, hate are bad. Choosing good is moral. Choosing bad is evil. Of these values freedom is the easiest to loose because you need resources to have it, but if you have more resources than you can use they end up owning you and resoures not used or not used in a sustainable way get wasted and when resources are wasted it means less freedom for someone somewhere.
If you share these values spread the WORD, I took years getting this right and you may say that it should have been easy but like the knowledge that the earth goes around the sun if you did not know it that knowledge would be hard to get, we have to teach knowledge or the knowledge dies with us. Have faith, hope, trust in truth, freedom, love David McDonell of Ironwood MI debdaveandpets@gmail.com
Yes, Yes... how do we get this Treaty to our Brethren the Tea Party? If we join forces with them, there's no more red states, blue states... it'll be the people, the 99% ... they will be scared, truly.
YES = End corporate personage. Ban corporate contributions in politics and institute complete transparency for individual contributions.
a non-partisan movement will be more effective
Isn't that what these ideas are? Non-Partisan? Corporations aren't evil, they have simply been left unchecked for too long, and when that happens it is our duty to address the issue. They have too much of a voice in capitol hill and at some point it begins to drown out the voice of the people.
I simply want that voice to be returned to the people.
it's the people's responsibility to correct this. BUt the powers that be will do everything they can dream of to make this partisan and divide us before anything can be accomplished
So then we should make the goals simple, transparent, and agreeable so that when they do try to make it partisan it can stand on it's own merits and be understood.
OnePeople, you and I are on the exact same wavelength bro. Maybe we got seperated at birth. haha
:-) The biggest problem now is that there isn't a focus, it is a general protest where people have different ideas of what to oppose, which is nearly everything, because there are so many different people with different ideologies. OWS is literally an open market of ideas about reform and change bringing people together to discuss democracy.
I went to wall street last friday to see if there was anything that most of the people could agree with. I walked up to a lot of people with signs because they were easiest to approach. I asked them if they had specific goals of what they wanted to see happen or ideas of how to advance the movement.
They all had ideas and what they thought was wrong and what they'd like to see changed. I come up with some commonalities from all my discussions and concluded that almost everyone that I talked to there would be willing to advocate the elimination of corporate campaign contributions, and a more transparent open lobbying system that reduces the corporations ability to influence their self interests so easily.
Like I said Occupy Wall Street is literally an open market of ideas, some are good, some are bad, and some are pretty extreme. People shouldn't focus on the extreme or the bad ones, but rather try and find all the ones that people can agree with no matter their level of wealth or what party they belong to.
worst case scenario: we'll have to break off to be the real OWS then. Just like there is a real tea party vs. the co-opted tea party.
lol an O-OWS
This is a non-partisan movement.
I hope we can keep it
Me, too!
Great ideas.
Thanks, spread it around.
Very well stated, i think that basically sums up my priority of gripes to begin with. Good job OnePeople. i will speak this message.
Thank you
My Wife likes your idea OnePeople!
Thanks, if we could just all stand behind something that everyone could agree on I think we could make some progress
i think we can all get behind an intelligent stimulus that would create an environment to promote job creation.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/the-one-stimulus-everyone-can-and-will-get-behind/
sounds like an ok start, but that's only the tip of the iceberg
Yes, and a place to start right now is more important then getting everything everyone wants.
I'd definitely support your proposal, but there is much work to be done.
The real problem is that using money as a means of exchange in itself creates winners and losers. We need a radical change of thinking, one where we wake up each day and work to help people - not work to make money. We need to eliminate money as a means of exchange altogether. That's radical! But maintaining the status quo is unsustainable.
There are some ideas out there on this subject, although I don't agree with all their points they provide a good starting point for discussion. Here's one good place to start:
http://www.chrismartenson.com/sites/all/themes/cm/cm-crashcourse.php?height=560&width=760
Stop the Looting and Begin Prosecuting!
I agree, but I would say get "all" money out of elections and political process. Corporations, banks, unions and all.
No Campaign contributions No lobbyists -- period
Yes! There's a lot of discussion about these concepts here, and it's definitely all building to something. Take a look at the 99% declaration working group: https://sites.google.com/site/the99percentdeclaration/home/please-join-this-working-group-and-let-your-voice-be-heard
Also, check out the poll for bite-size ideas to be added to a Money-Out-Of-Politics Constitutional Amendment: http://occupywallst.org/forum/poll-what-do-you-want-in-a-money-out-of-politics-a/
1. END THE FEDERAL RESERVE.
Article 1, Section 8 of the United States Constitution gives power to Congress to “coin money and regulate the value thereof.” John F. Kennedy was the last President that attempted to restore this power back to where it belonged. The Federal Reserve is a private bank that is owned by powerful international banking families. The “Federal Reserve” is as “Federal” as is “Federal Express.”
2. END THE FEDERAL INCOME TAX AND THE INTERNAL REVENUE SERVICE.
Adopt a Federal value added tax (VAT) OR a flat tax that is fair to all.
A VAT would fairly tax all individuals and corporations based on consumption with unprepared food and medicines being exempted from taxation. Those who can afford to purchase a luxury yacht, a private jet, a mansion with an ocean view and lavish dining at an exquisite restaurant would pay a much higher amount in consumption taxes whereas those who can only afford a picture of a yacht, a round-trip airline ticket to go to visit grandma for Christmas, a studio apartment with a parking lot view and an occasional meal at McDonalds would pay much lower taxes for their consumption. It would take very few federal employees to administer this form of taxation.
A flat tax would tax all individuals and corporations at the same percentage of their income with no deductions and no exemptions, regardless of how the income is derived. A federal tax return, regardless of the amount of income should be no longer than one page and the corresponding regulations should be no longer than 25 to 30 pages.
Both forms of taxation would serve to eliminate lobbyists and corrupt politicians.
3. END ALL WARS AND ALL FOREIGN OCCUPATIONS THAT UTILIZE OUR MILITARY.
Our military should continue to be the best and most well equipped in the world but should be utilized to protect our borders from illegal invaders. Bring the troops home and see how quickly we can begin to reduce our federal debt.
4. IMPOSE SUBSTANTIAL TARRIFFS ON GOODS AND SERVICES THAT ARE PRODUCED BY U.S. CORPORATIONS IN FOREIGN COUNTRIES.
The United States is still the biggest market in the world. U.S. Corporations that have manufacturing operations in China, Mexico, India and other countries so as to exploit lower labor costs should be required to pay high tariffs to sell their products in the United States. I have no doubt that most of those manufacturing jobs would move back to the United States if those high tariffs were to be imposed!
Imposing substantial tariffs on goods, any goods, is counter to the enhancement of the economy. And is in the disinterest of promoting competitiveness within our market.
Campaign contribution reform is a very good goal. However, if corporate contributions are banned then so should union contributions. It is important to maintain a balance between these groups.
Campaign contribution reform is a very good goal. However, if corporate contributions are banned then so should union contributions. It is important to maintain a balance between these groups.
Campaign contribution reform is a very good goal. However, if corporate contributions are banned then so should union contributions. It is important to maintain a balance between these groups.
Individual contributions only then? Otherwise there will always be another special interest group stepping up and coalescing in order to sway the outcome of an election one way or another.
you are a republican sack holder
sack holder?
yep all day
I'm not sure what your trying to say.
im trying to say that you hold the sacks of republican leaders
Ahh I see, I didn't realize middle school students had off today. I'm sure, however, that once you grow up you will grow to be more intelligent and polite.
the tea party has put herman cain at the top of the polls and while the republic leadership dont like him so where is the compromise they are tearing their own party apart
Everyone in the parties have their own beliefs and ideals, no one should vote or believe in something simply because the leader of a party says they should.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: One of the main pillars of Conservative propaganda is that both parties are the same. Nothing they say is further from the truth. It is an insidious lie intended to demoralize progressives, and discourage them from voting. Do not fall for this canard, because if both parties are the same, there is no hope for change, and therefore no reason to vote. The truth is that there is a difference between the parties. A stark difference! One party works for the rich, the other party works for all Americans. One party takes money from the needy to feed the greedy, and the other party takes money from the greedy to feed the needy. One party has plans and policies to create jobs, and the other party has a long list of lame excuses for not doing anything. Liberals want to change things. Conservatives want things to stay the same. There is a difference. One party wants to tax the rich, and the other party wants to tax the poor. One party wants to destroy Unions, and the other party wants to support them. One party supports the Occupation of Wall Street, and the other party doesn’t. One party wants to rebuild America, and the other party doesn’t. One party wants to provide health care for all, and the other party doesn’t. One party wants to regulate Wall Street, and the other party doesn’t. One Party wants to end the wars; the other party wants them to go on forever. There is a difference. One party is Myopic, and the other party is Far Sighted. One party wants to help the Middle Class, and the other party is at war with the Middle Class. One party wants to fire Teachers, and the other party wants to hire them. One party wants to create more jobs in America, and the other party wants to create more jobs in Asia. There is a difference. One party wants to protect pensions, and the other party wants to loot them. One party has a heart, and the other party has Ann Coulter. One party protects the right bear Arms, and the other party protects the right of freedom of assembly. One party believes that the only role for the Government is to provide for the common defense, and the other party believes that the Government should also promote the general Welfare. There is a difference, and anybody that tells you there is no difference between the parties is simply not conversant with reality. In addition, anyone that blames the Democrats for the current state of affairs has no understanding of who controls the Government. One Party has the Presidency, and the other party has the Majority in the House, controls the Senate, has a majority on the Supreme Court, and is responsible for current economic policy. So, if you’re angry, and you want to start a real fight, I submit that we should start a real fight with the Conservatives! America has a Two Party System. One party is clearly on your side, the other party thinks you’re and Anti-American mob. At some point in time you’re going to have to pick one. Choose wisely, your future is at stake
There you go, now that we have started discourse, we can discuss rationally. If this movement is for the 99% then there has to be common ground that people of all parties can agree to. Otherwise it is no longer the 99% but rather the 50% or 40% or 60%, depending on the mood of the country. And even though the parties are both completely different, there are similarities in the politicians. The both show each other an increased amount of disrespect and use more and more demagoguery, creating an ochlocracy, or rule of emotions over logic. They are irresponsible in using the media to wage war against each other and both sides have lost my support.