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Forum Post: Congratulations America: You Are Now in the Triple Digit "Debt to GDP" Club! /// Senate Fails to Advance Resolution Blocking Debt Limit Increase /// Treasury Resumes Pillaging Retirement Accounts To Fund Deficit Spending Until Debt Ceiling Raised

Posted 12 years ago on Nov. 16, 2011, 10:19 p.m. EST by MonetizingDiscontent (1257)
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Senate Fails to Advance Resolution Blocking Debt Limit Increase

(((CSPAN))) http://www.c-span.org/Events/Senate-Debate-Debt-Limit-Increase/10737427570-1/

--01/26/2012--

Washington, DC Thursday - By a Senate vote of 44 to 52, Senators failed to advance a resolution blocking a $1.2 trillion debt ceiling increase.


America Has A $16.4 Trillion Debt Ceiling In 52-44 Senate Vote

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/senate-vote-progress-increase-us-debt-ceiling-12-trillion

--01/26/2012--

Update: the Senate has failed to reject a bid to stop the debt ceiling hike with a simple 52 vote majority all of it along party lines. The US now has $16.4 trillion in debt capacity as of Friday.

Since roughly $100 billion was plundered from Pension Funds in the past month, The US will have about $15.4 trillion in debt with the Monday DTS.

The question then is how long will the $1 trillion in debt capacity last: at $125 billion/month it won't be enough to carry the US past the election without another massive debt ceiling spectacle.

While Congress recently voted down the increase in the US debt ceiling, that vote was largely irrelevant. And all that matters is how the Senate will vote. Watch it live in progress below. It is virtually unlikely that the process of debt ceiling increase will be overturned so within minutes the US should have a brand spaking new debt ceiling of $16.4 trillion.

(((CSPAN))) http://www.c-span.org/Events/Senate-Debate-Debt-Limit-Increase/10737427570-1/

In Puppet Move Full Of Sound & Fury, Congress Denies Debt Ceiling Hike

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/puppet-move-full-sound-and-fury-congress-denies-debt-ceiling-hike

--01/18/2012--

A short time ago, the House of Representatives rejected (by 239-176 though not enough to avoid Obama's veto) the $1.3tn increase in the federal debt limit. As Reuters notes... http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/01/18/us-usa-debt-vote-idUSTRE80H26D20120118 ...this vote seems like 'a largely -symbolic- vote aimed at staking out election-year positions on government spending' as we know by now that Timmy G will underfund yet another pension plan (on the promise to transfer-pay it all back very soon) if it ever came to that.....

(((Continue Reading this article Here))) http://www.zerohedge.com/news/puppet-move-full-sound-and-fury-congress-denies-debt-ceiling-hike

Treasury Resumes Pillaging Retirement Accounts To Fund Deficit Spending Until Debt Ceiling Raised

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/treasury-resumes-pillaging-retirement-accounts-fund-deficit-spending-until-debt-ceiling-raised

--01/17/2012--

(TylerDurden) Back on January 5, when we first broke... http://www.zerohedge.com/news/here-we-go-again-us-25-million-away-debt-ceiling ...the news that the US debt ceiling has been reached, and breached, yet again, we said "And now the Social Security Fund pillaging begins anew until Congress signs off on the latest interim debt ceiling increase." Sure enough, operation rape and pillage is a go.

  • #### U.S. SUSPENDS PAYMENTS TO PENSION FUND TO AVOID DEBT CAP BREACH

  • GEITHNER INFORMS CONGRESS ON SUSPENSION OF PAYMENTS TO FUND

  • GEITHNER SAYS 'G' FUND PARTICIPANTS 'UNAFFECTED' BY SUSPENSION

  • GEITHNER SAYS 'G' FUND TO BE MADE WHOLE AFTER DEBT LIMIT RAISED

  • GEITHNER: DEBT LIMIT WILL BE INCREASED JAN. 27 UNLESS BLOCKED

In other words: Congress better pass the debt ceiling prontt, or else -it- will have to explain to government retirees the tens of billions in deficit funds, i.e., marketable debt, already issued will permanently offset the level in G-fund holdings.

Lastly, any comparison to similar acts of commingling performed by other insolvent entities in recent months is purely coincidental and no Obama handlers were thrown in jail as a result of this post.

President Sends Request To Congress For $1.2 Trillion Debt Ceiling Increase

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/obama-sends-request-congress-12-trillion-debt-ceiling-increase

--01/12/2012--

  • HOUSE TO VOTE JAN. 18 ON OBAMA'S DEBT-LIMIT INCREASE REQUEST

Two days ago we wondered how long it would take for Obama to restart the debt ceiling theater. Not that long it turns out.

  • OBAMA SENDS CONGRESS REQUEST TO RAISE DEBT CEILING

  • OBAMA NOTIFICATION STARTS 15-DAY CLOCK FOR CONGRESS TO VOTE

(((Continue Reading this article Here))) http://www.zerohedge.com/news/obama-sends-request-congress-12-trillion-debt-ceiling-increase

Here We Go Again: US $25 Million Away From Debt Ceiling Breach

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/here-we-go-again-us-25-million-away-debt-ceiling

--01/05/2012--

It's simply amazing how quickly the US managed to hit its debt ceiling... https://www.fms.treas.gov/fmsweb/viewDTSFiles?dir=w&fname=12010400.pdf ...all over again...And now the Social Security Fund pillaging begins anew until Congress signs off on the latest interim debt ceiling increase.

(((See Chart))) http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/2011/12/Debt%20limit.jpg

Total Public Debt Subject to Limit - $15,193,975,000

Statutory Debt Limit - $15,194,000,000


America Maxes Out Its Credit Card Again

Treasury To Raise Debt Limit By Another $1.2 Trillion On Dec 30, 2011

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/us-hits-credit-ceiling-again-treasury-raise-debt-limit-another-12-trillion-december-30

-12/27/2011-

  • #### U.S. TREASURY SAYS DEBT LIMIT TO BE RAISED BY $1.2 TRILLION

  • #### U.S. DEBT TO BE $100 BLN WITHIN LIMIT ON DEC. 30, TREASURY SAYS

  • #### STEPS FOR INCREASING DEBT LIMIT UNDER 2011 BUDGET CONTROL ACT

And the piece de resistance that 100% debt to GDP brings:

OBAMA ON DEC. 30 LIKELY TO ASK CONGRESS TO RAISE DEBT LIMIT

Just as we thought the circus was over if only for a few weeks.

Also, this means that in a few days, the US debt ceiling will be raised from $15.194 trillion to $16.394 trillion.

As a reminder, US GDP was just revised down to $15.176 trillion.


It's Official: US Debt-To-GDP Passes 100%

$1 5, 1 3 1, 9 7 9, 2 6 4, 2 8 8. 8 0

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/its-official-us-debtgdp-passes-100

--12/21/2011--

With precisely one year left for the world and all of its inhabitants, at least according to the Mayans, not to mention on the day of the Winter Solstice, it is only fitting that US debt, net of all settlements for all already completed bond auctions, is now at precisely $15,182,756,264,288.80.

Why is this relevant? Because the latest annualized US GDP, according to the BEA, was $15,180,900,000.00. Which means that, as of today, total US debt to GDP is 100.012%.

Congratulations America: You Are Now

In The Triple Digit "Debt to GDP" Club!

(naturally, this is using purely "on the books" data. If one adds the NPV of all US liabilities, and adjusts GDP for such things as today's housing contraction, then the magical triple digit threshold was breached long, long ago).

And here is the breakdown for the forensically inclined ones:

I. Total debt as of December 20: $15,131,979,264,288.80

(source): http://www.savingsbonds.gov/NP/BPDLogin?application=np

II. Net cash settlement of all completed auctions: $50,777,000,000.00

(source): http://www.treasurydirect.gov/instit/annceresult/press/press_cashpydwn.htm

III. Total GDP: $15,180,900,000,000.00

(source): http://www.bea.gov/newsreleases/national/gdp/2011/pdf/gdp3q11_2nd.pdf

Total Debt/GDP = $15,182,756,264,288.80 / $15,180,900,000,000.00 = 100.012%

Relation of Gross Domestic Product, Gross National Product, & National Income: http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/2011/12/GDP%20Q3.jpg

US Debt/GDP Hits Post WW2 High 99.5% Following $55 Billion Overnight Debt Increase: Total Debt Now Over $15.1 Trillion

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/us-debtgdp-hits-post-ww2-high-995-following-55-billion-overnight-debt-increase-total-debt-now-o

--12/01/2011--

(TylerDurden) It seems like it was only yesterday... http://www.zerohedge.com/news/its-official-total-us-debt-passes-15-trillion ...that we celebrated 15,OOO,OOO,OOO,OOObama day. Two weeks later, we are now well over 100 billion in debt over this historic landmark, or $15.11 trillion to be precise... https://www.fms.treas.gov/fmsweb/viewDTSFiles?dir=w&fname=11113000.pdf ...following the predicted $55 billion increase in debt with the settlement of all auctions from last week. And aside from the mind-staggering rate of new debt increase why else is this number notable? Because as we learned 10 days ago... http://www.zerohedge.com/news/its-official-total-us-debt-passes-15-trillion ...total Q3 GDP in current dollars is $15.18 trillion.

...In other words, US debt/GDP is now 99.5%...

the highest it has been in the post WW2 period, and rapidly rising. What is worse is that the delta to 100% debt/GDP is only $70 billion: this is about half of the next two weekly gross issuances of 3,10,30s and 2,5,7s of about $160 billion over the next two weeks. http://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/data-chart-center/quarterly-refunding/Documents/auctions.pdf ....In other words by the end of 2011, debt/GDP will finally be a triple digit number percentage. And the other notable thing is that the debt limit still is $15.194 trillion. It is ironic that the economic growth ceiling and the debt issuance ceiling are now one and the same: if the the debt target number does not rise neither will the US economy. Q.E.D.


$1 5, O O O, O O O, O O O, O O O

It's Official: Total US Debt Passes $15 Trillion

--11/16/2011--

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/its-official-total-us-debt-passes-15-trillion

http://www.treasurydirect.gov/NP/BPDLogin?application=np

(Tyler Durden) Too sad for commentary, but here is some math: total US debt has increased by 41.5%, or $4.4 trillion, from $10,626,877,048,913 on January 20, to $15,033,607,255,920, under Obama as president.


47 Comments

47 Comments


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[-] 4 points by nucleus (3291) 12 years ago

$15 trillion? That is only 2.5% of the $600 trillion derivative time-bomb that is about to explode.

Four US banks hold 96% of it: JPMorgan Chase, Citigroup, Bank of America and Goldman Sachs. When they demand another bailout the 99% will be the 99.8%.

http://www.investorplace.com/2011/10/derivatives-the-600-trillion-time-bomb-set-to-explode/

[-] 2 points by MonetizingDiscontent (1257) 12 years ago

Good points nucleus...

And Isn't stealing pensions... http://www.zerohedge.com/news/treasury-resumes-pillaging-retirement-accounts-fund-deficit-spending-until-debt-ceiling-raised ...for deficit spending the very same type of commingling of segregated accounts we saw from MF Global recently?

Why are the -people- being punished for run away deficit spending on Capital Hill? Its almost as if the people are in a hostage-like situation, where in a way, they are held against their will until a demand is met or something.


:::::::::::::::: US Adds $120 Billion In Debt Since Debt Ceiling Hike On Friday, ::::::::::::::::

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: $310 Billion More On Deck In Next Two Months ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/us-adds-120-billion-debt-debt-ceiling-hike-friday-310-billion-more-deck-next-two-months

-02/01/2012-

Remember when the US hiked its debt ceiling on Friday courtesy of a formulaic 52 affirmative votes in the Senate.... http://www.zerohedge.com/news/senate-vote-progress-increase-us-debt-ceiling-12-trillion ...giving the Treasury $1.2 trillion in dry debt powder to attempt to grow the economy one more time according to the algorithmic fantasies of voodoo priests with pieces of Ivy League parchment on their walls?

Well, two days later, the dry powder is less than $1.1 trillion. In other words, in the past two days, total US debt increased by $120 billion, along the lines of our expectations, as the Treasury filled up all the G-fund cash it had pillaged to continue issuing debt throughout the month of January even though it was formally above the debt ceiling.

What is more concerning, is that as the chart below shows, the trendline of US debt since the beginning of 2011 is no longer a straight line, but has slowly transformed into a parabola, the very same word used as the root in such other infamous words as, for example, parabolic.

It gets worse: even according to the drastically, and very unrealistically, downward revised borrowing expectations of the Treasury released yesterday... http://www.treasury.gov/press-center/press-releases/Pages/tg1401.aspx ...the US will issue $444 billion in debt in this quarter.

Today's number means that in February and March alone Tim Geithner will raise another $310 billion, which will send total debt to $15.7 trillion as of March 31. What is the final debt ceiling? Just under $16.4 trillion. So the US will have $700 billion in debt issuance capacity for the 7 months leading into the presidential election (and 9 until the end of the year).

Now naturally, if the debt ceiling becomes a sticking point at the election, Obama's chances of reelection plunge. Which makes us wonder - will Republicans grasp that the paradox of defeating Obama is precisely in giving him a carte blanche on all the stimulus programs he wants? Because if Congress approves another $200, 300 or even $400 billion in stimulus pork (the only thing better than one Solyndra? One thousand Solyndras!) the Treasury will drown in the need to raise hundreds of billions more, and will in fact hit the ceiling well in advance of the elections.

As for the stimulus projects themselves, they will crash and burn just like all centrally planned endeavors, and actually results in a far worse outcome than if they had never been attempted.

Because ironically, now that the entire world has passed the Rubicon, and unfortunately there really is no way of fixing anything, the only thing one can hope for is letting the status quo get on with doing what it does best, and leading the 100 year process of central planning to its sad and terminal conclusion, only after which can the "fresh start" reset occur. Ironically, the same thing is true with the farce that is the debt ceiling: the best way to finally get back to a fiscally prudent regime? Why go to town, of course.

:::::::::::::: Total Public Debt Outstanding ::::::::::::::

(((SeeChart))) http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/2012/01/Total%20Debt%20US%202.1_0.jpg

And, we almost forgot to add, as of today, total debt to GDP is once again well over 100% even with the latest Q4 GDP data, at 100.4% and rising every day.

[-] 1 points by MonetizingDiscontent (1257) 12 years ago

::::::::::: U.S. Treasury Raids Federal Employee Pension Funds to Cover Debts :::::::::::

http://www.naturalnews.com/034762_treasury_federal_employees_pension_funds.html#ixzz1kiBwRsxu

-01/25/2012-

(NaturalNews) There is a saying, "Desperate times call for desperate measures." Roughly, it's an expression that's meant to be reassuring, conjuring up an image of a true statesman-like leader who is preparing to do whatever is necessary to lead the masses out of danger.

Of course, the expression doesn't have the same connotation when applied to the Obama administration in its futile struggle to balance the nation's books. Left to fend for itself by a hapless Congress that couldn't agree on the color of red bricks, let alone pass a budget that actually curbed spending and lowered the national debt, the administration has taken to theft as a way to pay the country's bills. Specifically, the Treasury Department is stealing cash from federal employees pension funds... http://news.yahoo.com/treasury-dips-pension-funds-avoid-debt-limit-202850021.html ...so the government can obtain more credit to pay its debts.

In a letter to Congress earlier this week, Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner said he would "be unable to invest fully" the federal employees retirement system, a tactic the federal government has had to employ six times over the past 20 years in order to remain under the statutory debt ceiling limit......

(((Continue Reading this article Here))) http://www.naturalnews.com/034762_treasury_federal_employees_pension_funds.html#ixzz1kiCihHgR


[-] 1 points by Middleaged (5140) 12 years ago

You could agrue that Congress has given up it's constitutional responsibilities - but you will lose in the end. I don't beleive you have ever had a class on government. YOU SAID: "conjuring up an image of a true statesman-like leader who is preparing to do whatever is necessary to lead the masses out of danger. Of course, the expression doesn't have the same connotation when applied to the Obama administration in its futile struggle to balance the nation's books. Left to fend for itself by a hapless Congress that couldn't agree on the color of red bricks, let alone pass a budget that actually curbed spending and lowered the national debt, the administration has taken to theft as a way to pay the country's bills."

---I SAY, you have bought into the propaganda. Only the US COngress has the power to declare "WAR", and only Congress has the power to pass a "BUDGET". Congress is too busy posing for the camera and making sound bites for the LOBBY that pays them. Lets TRY to say what is TRUE and call things what they are. Sure the presidents budget is one process, but congress decides how it will next screw the country with it's budget or lack of a passed budget (continuing resolution that maintains the status quo). Yes Georgie Bush too us to war, BUT HE DOESN'T HAVE THE POWER to declare war. Congress has given up resistance to the Puppeteers, because they don't want their name on documents or votes.

[-] 1 points by MonetizingDiscontent (1257) 12 years ago

hm, Congress outsourced its responsibility of the powers of war and setting monetary policy long ago. Keeps them from being held accountable for their decisions they used to have to make. They have insulated themselves from any blowback from the people in this way. So... I agree with everything you said.

Couldn't the President just start vetoing deficit spending bills, if our hapless congress cannot find the discipline within themselves to stay on budget?

The power of the purse should be returned to congress, and force our misrepresentatives to accept their responsibilities again. This way we could vote out the money junkies. They wouldn't be coming to the table with half of these unfunded mandates if they were held responsible for the fiscal consequences of these trillion dollar mandates, the people wouldn't be having it. Not these days.

As it is, the people setting loose/cheap monetary policy are not electable by the people. Yet Ben Bernanke admitted inflation is indeed a -Tax- The people setting monetary policy are not elected by the people, yet their policy effects everyone. The power should be in congress where it belongs, where they are held accountable!

Also, money could be minted or printed at ZERO interest just by cutting out the middleman (Fed). How much money would it save the working person if we were not charged interest on all the money they print up.

hmm, im just failing to understand where we disagree. And I hear you on war, loud and clear. The power of war should not belong to any ONE man.

Congress is full of empty suits. If I were President, my desperate measure for desperate times, would be to restore these powers to Congress in FULL.

[-] 2 points by Middleaged (5140) 12 years ago

Yes, we do have a lot of common understanding.

And maybe I sense that you would agree that the Federal Government is transferring taxpayer funds directly to industries that we are told are part of a free enterprise system. What is free if we compete against businesses that are subsidized OR give billion dollars of contracts?

We no longer have a free enterprise system we have a government transfer system within the BGS (Banking-Government System).

What we have is status quo since Georgie W. was elected. But it probably goes back to Vietnam when LBJ raided the Social Secirity Trust Fund. The status quo is transferring money from tax payers to businesses and corporations.

"Couldn't the President just start vetoing deficit spending bills?", No I doubt that would change much. After all this government has been running on continuing resolutions not budgets. Yes, vetos get more excitement going, but as you say - we can't expet anything to change if nothing has changed in the political process...lobbying holds the power here.

Yes, I do question the need to pay interest to banks on US government dollars. Most of us don't have gold, so not sure gold backing wouldn't make us all poor. However, the government should back its own dollars and not be beholden to banks. There is no reason that I can think of why Private Banks like the FED are allowed to control our government. (also why allow Lobbyist to control our government?)

That is why I coined the Phrase BGS last night. BGS stands for Banking-Government System which runs (or just influences) the US Government to a very large degree.

[-] 1 points by MonetizingDiscontent (1257) 12 years ago

-agreed- on everything, exept for the Gold making us poor thing, but hey, thats me.

Think the price of gold at 5 or even 10,000 would make a lot of those "hoarders" loosen their grip? there would be plenty around, and trading freely then.

And for all those "Gold is a Bubble" people.. Jochen Hitzfeld, the analyst at UniCredit SpA in Munich who was the most accurate precious-metals forecaster tracked by Bloomberg in the past two years noted that people are under invested in gold. which would indicate it isn't a bubble at all. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-01-25/gold-proving-safest-commodity-as-goldman-forecasts-record-riskless-return.html

[-] 1 points by Middleaged (5140) 12 years ago

Yes, I have been following the gold story since like August. I've been surprised that gold is not yet over 2000.

[-] 1 points by JesseHeffran (3903) 12 years ago

And all the professionals said the same thing about the housing bubble when it was doing well. If you want to invest, you better pick a different commodity and stop piggy backing off the herd. Corn makes more sense than gold as a commodity investment. Only way gold will pay off, is if the dollar crashes, but even then other commodities make more sense. or unless we go to the gold standard, which I find to be a "when pigs fly" type scenario.

[-] 1 points by MonetizingDiscontent (1257) 12 years ago

Ok. Corn would be a perfect choice for states that produce it. Like Nebraska. Great example. Iowa, Kansas, the entire midwest really.

Everyone has their vice, so why not a basket of things. Agriculture too. Metals hold up longer though, hence my preference. Everyone has one, and this happened to be my post thats all.

Anything is better policy than the current one. A policy of promising to make -us- pay later, with interest. That's not a good starting point for confidence in a currency.

"""you better pick a different commodity and stop piggy backing off the herd."""

The "herd" is in fiat promissory notes.

Considering the scope of monetary intervention through inflating the money supply... http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2012/01/living-in-a-qe-world/ ...Gold or fiat, which one constitutes a bubble more?

People are under invested in physical assets, namely metals, reports are showing. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-01-25/gold-proving-safest-commodity-as-goldman-forecasts-record-riskless-return.html What herd are you talking about?

And.. lol ..Central Banks are piling up on gold all over the world. So, exactly what is it that you know, which central banks do not?

[-] 1 points by Middleaged (5140) 12 years ago

Have you read about Modern Monetary Policy?

I think Warren Mosler is the key figure. The idea was tested and seemed to show there is an optimal money supply level and that it would grow with the population growth. There is reason to believe that we never would have to pay back money we create within the domestic money system. The only time you have to pay back money that normally would be borrowed from the FED and FED Member banks - is in an instance where you sell bonds or get a loan from a foreign country outside of the USA.

1) Saving interest paid to banks for US Dollar Growth 2) Saving principal payment to Domestic Banks or Bond holders.

Hope I got the correct. I didn't really go back and read any links.

[-] 1 points by MonetizingDiscontent (1257) 12 years ago

well I've read around here and there quite a bit. Enough to recognize which economic theory has predicted the most booms and busts.

I read it all. But for -my- money? Im -all in- Austrian

Still though, even keynesian theory sais you have to save for bad times. But thats never encouraged anymore. Its the Credit Card Age, making credit more available. and convenient even... More debt is all that is ever encouraged now. They even call it "growth." (yeah cancerous one) But maybe that has something to do with why the term consumer is stressed so much these days, rather than tax paying citizen, and the lack of respect is becoming ever more upfront and out in the open. No wonder people are waking up. They better.

Even Pirates knew. They wiped their ass with certificates and bonds or burned them. They knew where the value was. They wanted the booty. The treasure.

Unlike certificates bonds or any other paper 'investment vehicle', Gold doesn't rely on the performance of any wallstreet crook for its value and Its price cannot be pushed to Zero, because its value is in its very nature.

Thats why paper money must be backed by tangible assets. The confidence in a currency should have something more to rely on than their a promise to make -us- pay back later, with interest. Debt has no value, only momentum.

There's something to be said for a gold standard. As it is, we have no standards at all.

[-] 1 points by Middleaged (5140) 12 years ago

Yes, the conservative in me has wanted something to back the dollar for quiet a while now.

The curve for increasing Debt over time is said to be like 45 degrees, but the GDP or economy is sort of a sideways S curve. (maybe you said that or it was a video last weekend).

[-] 2 points by OWSWhat (66) 12 years ago

We are on the brink of a severe depression. The Gov is in non stop spend mode and it is going to implode very soon.

[-] 2 points by Middleaged (5140) 12 years ago

Yes, I Agree.

[-] 2 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 12 years ago

all those wars

[-] 0 points by SteveKJR (-497) 12 years ago

Well if the people keep demanding from the government it's only going to get worse.

Why do you think it's gotten to where it is in the first place. Look over the past 30 or so years how the government has intruded into everyones life because it was requested by the people of this country.

[-] 2 points by Builder (4202) 12 years ago

The major demands are coming from the war mongers. The whole world world is watching, while your war mongers send your country into the schitter financially.

Don't you get it? Congress owns the military industrial complex. They don't care if the country has to declare bankruptcy. As long as their shares in the munitions factories go through the roof.

Wouldn't you vote for your investments?

[-] 0 points by SteveKJR (-497) 12 years ago

Just how old are you anyway?

[-] 1 points by Builder (4202) 12 years ago

What difference does that make? How old are you?

[-] 0 points by SteveKJR (-497) 12 years ago

Probably twice as old as you based upon what you posted and how you posted your comments.

[-] 1 points by Middleaged (5140) 12 years ago

SteveKJR ...I don't think much of you...the way you discuss is to shut off the discussion. Why didn't you ask for proof or facts if you are on the other side. I'm guessing you just like to beat up on people.

[-] 0 points by SteveKJR (-497) 12 years ago

Hey, I like to provide info that gets people "thinking" instead of whining. What's wrong with that? And if I am wrong sometimes - nobody is perfect but I don't criticize someone else because they try to correct me.

I may not disagree with them but at least I respect what they have to say.

[-] 2 points by teamosil (0) 12 years ago

Yeah, the debt is too high for sure. We are spending more on our military than the rest of the world spends on their militarys COMBINED and yet our richest people pay radically lower taxes than the rich do in other countries and radically lower taxes than they have in the US for most of the modern era.

It's just a mechanism for redistributing wealth up to the top. Only they get the millions of dollars in tax breaks, but the bill gets split evenly between all of us in the form of national debt.

[-] 2 points by tobuso (3) 12 years ago

Military - 18.74% of 2010 budget Tax rates paid based on earnings brackets supplied by IRS.

Bracket Federal income tax (PAID NOT BRACKET) Top 1% - 22.5% Top 95-99% - 20.5% Top 90-95% - 18.8% High/Middle 75-90% - 16% Middle 50-75% - 14% Bottom 50% - 12.7%

So I am not sure where you come up with the rich paying lower taxes than the radically lower taxes statement. Also, the bill does not get split evenly in the form of national debt.

Bracket TOTAL taxes PAID as a percentage Top 1% - 40.4% Top 95-99% - 20.2% Top 90-95% - 10.6% High/Middle 75-90% - 15.4% Middle 50-75% - 10.5% Bottom 50% - 2.9%

As you can see the debt is paid by the rich, not the poor. That is why the fight not between the (haves) and (have nots.) It is between the (give me more for frees) and the (I already am giving you quite a bit for frees.)

[-] 2 points by sudoname (1001) from Berkeley, CA 12 years ago

Apparently over 1 trillion of that was stolen by the fed recently

[-] 2 points by gestopomillyy (1695) 12 years ago

and WW3 hasn't even started yet.

[-] 1 points by MonetizingDiscontent (1257) 12 years ago

:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Debt Ceiling 101, Rick Santelli Sounds Off ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

(((CNBC News Video))) http://www.zerohedge.com/news/debt-ceiling-101-santelli-sounds

-01/27/2012-

In an effort to reach the angry mob, CNBC's Rick Santelli goes all Sesame Street on the numbers behind the US Debt Ceiling Rise. Focusing for two minutes on what this practically means for every man, woman, child, and politician, the shouting Chicagoan points out that when the US breaches this new limit then the world's entire population will be on the hook for $2,346 each (and $52,409 per US person).


[-] 1 points by MattLHolck (16833) from San Diego, CA 12 years ago

cash flashes blast exposed eyes

reeling from the wheeling and dealing

distracted tracking stacking chips

vision on derision deferred

[-] 1 points by Joeboy32 (72) 12 years ago

I can see us hitting $20 Trillion by 2015 or perhaps sooner. I don't know if it's greed, overpopulation or invincible ignorance that is the root cause to all this economic mess.

And I wish people would stop blaming the presidency as if one man can really decide how much worse the debt can get in this country. "Everyone" (me included) has participated in some way shape or form in this crisis, whether we were aware of it or not.

Look in the mirror and take responsibility and stop consuming more than what you need.

[-] 1 points by MonetizingDiscontent (1257) 12 years ago

:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::Presenting The Interactive "Wiggle-Room Index":::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

::::::::::::::::::::::Or, Which Countries Will Be Forced To Bail Out The Developed World:::::::::::::::::::::::

((Article))) http://www.zerohedge.com/news/presenting-interactive-wiggle-room-index-or-which-countries-will-be-forced-bail-out-developed-w

(((The Interactive WiggleRoom Index))) http://www.economist.com/sites/default/files/media/2012InfoG/Interactives/Wiggle_20120124/wiggle.swf

-01/26/2012-

While it is best to pray that NASA will find some very rich and not so intelligent life on Mars so it can bail out the world as it sinks deeper and deeper into a untenable debt hole (which somehow can be "filled" only by issuing more debt at least according to tenured economists at ivy league institutions), a strategy of planning for a realistic outcome may not be a bad idea. The question then is who in the world has some/any spare leverage capacity to incur even more debt and use the proceeds to fund a Eurozone-American-Chinese collapse.

Enter the Economist's "wiggle-room index." The publication, best known for recently introducing the "shoe thrower index"... http://www.zerohedge.com/article/step-aside-big-mac-indexmeet-shoe-thrower-index ...(remember the Arab Spring and how Fed induced runaway inflation generated a "democratic" revolution across MENA?) has compiled a list of those developing world countries which still have capacity to provide credible global bailout capital (in fiat form of course - after all that is the only thing that the Ponzi understands) or as the Economist says, the "emerging economies that have the most monetary and fiscal firepower."

So if you are on this list (ahem China, Indonesia and Saudi Arabia) - our condolences - you are about to be dragged into the epic slow-motion ongoing collapse of the developed world, kicking and screaming, with some 44 caliber persuasion if needed, but you will be there, before it all falls apart. The time to repay all favors to Uncle Sam is coming.

(((Continue Reading this article Here))) http://www.zerohedge.com/news/presenting-interactive-wiggle-room-index-or-which-countries-will-be-forced-bail-out-developed-w


::::::::Chart of the Day: Central Bank Balance Sheet as Percent of GDP: Fed, ECB, BOJ, BOE::::::::

http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2012/01/chart-of-day-central-bank-balance-sheet.html

-January 26, 2012-

Here is an interesting chart by Peter Garnry, an Equity Strategist at Saxo Bank in Denmark...

...The race is on to see which central bank can load up its balance sheet with the most garbage the fastest. The key question is "when does everyone realize the jig is up?"

[-] 1 points by MonetizingDiscontent (1257) 12 years ago

::::::::Fed Officials Open to Additional (Monetary) Easing as They Monitor Risks to Economy::::::::

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-01-18/fed-officials-open-to-additional-easing-as-they-monitor-risks-to-economy.html

-Jan 18, 2012-

  • ...Harris and Paul Edelstein, director of financial economics at IHS Global in Lexington, Massachusetts, said the Fed in any asset purchases will probably focus on mortgage-backed securities to support housing markets....

  • “The next quantitative easing is going to have to involve significant mortgage buying,” said Harris, who estimates that the U.S. central bank could purchase $800 billion in bonds later this year, including about $500 billion in housing-related debt. “The Fed isn’t trying to change the borrowing costs of the U.S. government. They are trying to change the borrowing costs of the private sector.....”


[-] 1 points by ineptcongress (648) 12 years ago

that's why it's called "the american way"--living hand to mouth/ paycheck to paycheck... it's called "false prosperity"--and many of my neighbors in their very expensive homes are engaging in "the american way" as i write. however, GDP does NOT measure tax revenue--it measures what we could raise if every dollar earned by every person and company was taxed at 100%. in other words, we're still deficit spending--we can't even "service" the interest. a better stat to look at is tax receipts which are about 4Trillion--and we're spending all that, plus 1.2Trillion since the last debt ceiling increase (august 2)--so we're deficit spending in the 2.4Trillion range per year. we're broke. i cannot believe people (investors) are funding this runaway train (buying bonds).

[-] 1 points by Builder (4202) 12 years ago

Ho Lee Schitt.

If it looked bad last year, you weren't looking close enough.

[-] 1 points by Misfit138 (172) 12 years ago

Currently, the US barely can pay the interest alone which means that the debt cannot be reduced. We will soon be at the point where we won't even be able to pay the interest. Once we reach that point, then the Congress may be willing to take the hard path to try and fix things, but it will probably be too late.

[-] 1 points by SpaghettiMonster (90) 12 years ago

Hopefully it keeps going up. Whether it's water table exploitation, ocean acidification, deforestation, atmospheric CO2 concentration... you get the point, they're all rising(well, technically falling for pH level). Until things get bad, like, really bad... we'll never act. We're like the frog boiling in the proverbial pot, slowing boiling to death in a stew of our own making.

Every morning I see fuel prices bucking the trend, I can't help but sigh. I'd love to see them at 4...5, maybe 6 dollars per gallon. Not until millions are dying from famine and starvation will a possible window open up into our little worlds of endless consumption. Sorry for the digression, I just wanted to come and share my glee from hearing such wonderful news.

[-] 1 points by ToxicApple (1) from Melville, LA 12 years ago

Rediculous. That's all I can really say about that.

[-] 1 points by JonFromSLC (-107) from West Valley City, UT 12 years ago

And somehow people still want to raise or even get rid of the debt limit. WTF would we do with 50 trillion in debt?

[Removed]

[-] 0 points by NKVD (55) 12 years ago

Makes no difference in the end. Most Americans don't care. And our rulers will ensure they still make their millions.

[-] 0 points by Corium (246) 12 years ago

Hum... about $45,500 per person. Nice, that's too much yet.

[-] 1 points by MonetizingDiscontent (1257) 12 years ago

Apparently that's what the fed was thinking too, Flight QE3-2011(12?) Now Boarding?

::::::::There's Your Official Warning From The Fed::::::::

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/theres-your-official-warning-fed

by Tyler Durden on 11/16/2011 - 13:32 Central Banks Gross Domestic Product:

And in lieu of any rumors out of Europe (they have all been exhausted, plus nobody believes anything out of the doomed continent), here is our own Fed with its best attempt to talk the market up:

ROSENGREN: CRISIS MIGHT WARRANT COORDINATED ACTION BY FED, ECB

ROSENGREN SAYS FED SHOULDN'T BE DISSUADED FROM TRYING TO HELP

And yet:

ROSENGREN: CENTRAL BANKS CAN'T SOLVE ECONOMIC PROBLEMS ALONE

[-] 2 points by Corium (246) 12 years ago

We are so screwd!

Option 1 -The country has to inflate like hell to get out of this.

Option 2 - Pay 100% of the collected taxes to the debt for the next 15 years.

Somehow I don't think it'll be option 2

[-] 1 points by MonetizingDiscontent (1257) 12 years ago

::::::::The Federal Government’s Debt Increased by $203,368,715,583.63:::::::

::::::::::::::::in the Month of October, According to the U.S. Treasury:::::::::::::::

http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/debt-increased-203-billion-oct-650-every-man-woman-and-child-america

-Nov. 2, 2011-

(CNSNews.com) - The federal government’s debt increased by $203,368,715,583.63 in the month of October, according to the U.S. Treasury.

That equals about $650 per person for each of the 312,542,760 people the Census Bureau now estimates live in the United States...


[-] 1 points by MonetizingDiscontent (1257) 12 years ago

( ( ( f l a sh b a c k ) ) )

Five Banks Account For 96% Of The $250 Trillion In Outstanding US Derivative Exposure; Is Morgan Stanley Sitting On An FX Derivative Time Bomb?

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/five-banks-account-96-250-trillion-outstanding-derivative-exposure-morgan-stanley-sitting-fx-de

-09/24/2011-


[-] 0 points by Rico (3027) 12 years ago

Yea Fed, Yea ECB ! ;o)

[-] -3 points by MVSN (768) from Stockton, CA 12 years ago

Somehow I don't think that these OWS marxists think that it's all that big of a problem.

[-] 1 points by Satyr000 (86) 12 years ago

Is it a problem,yes. The amount of debit isn't what you should be focusing on. Its how we fix the problem and why the government seems to be taking there sweet time addressing it. If its not handled right or its let sit for to long we could end up in something like Japans lost decade.

[-] 2 points by philosophersstoned (233) from Gypsum, CO 12 years ago

we are already in something "like," and by that I mean literally exactly the same, Japan's lost decade. This doesn't mean paultards screaming about the debt causing hyperinflation have a leg to stand on, but it does mean that if the government response continues to be trickle-down tax cuts and austerity, we are looking at the current levels of unemployment sticking around until 2018.