Forum Post: 11 reasons the Occupy Wall St. movement will SUCCEED
Posted 13 years ago on Oct. 16, 2011, 9:01 a.m. EST by therising
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A clear majority of Americans support the Occupy Wall Street movement according CBS News and Time Magazine polls.
1500 cities around the world are now occupied including over 100 cities in the United States.
The protesters involved in these 1500 occupations around the world are now in communication with one another.
We have a spirit that dogs can't bite. - MLK
No lie can live forever. - MLK
Truth crushed to earth rises up. - MLK
The moral arc of the universe bends toward justice. - MLK
"First they ignore you. Then they laugh at you. Then they fight you. Then you win." - Gandhi
"Sooner or later but mus' The dam going to bus' and everyone will break out And who will stop them? The force? What force can stop this river of people who already know their course." - Bongo Jerry (Rastafarian poet)
"And now we lay our case before the entire world. Whether we win or whether we die, freedom will rise like the sun through the morning clouds." - Breyton Breytonbach before being sentenced in court for his non-violent direct action activity in South Africa.
"The representatives of the status quo are sickened and divided and dread looking into the eyes of their young; while the excluded begin to realize, having endured everything, that they CAN endure everything. They do not know the precise shape of their future but they know that the future belongs to them. They realize this -- paradoxically -- by the failure of moral energy of their oppressors and begin, almost instinctively, to forge a new morality, to create the principles on which a new world will be built." - James Baldwin
Once we, the 99%, discover that we have more things in common than we do separating us, we'll be making DECISIONS from a position of unified power instead of DEMANDS from a position of divided weakness.
JohnnyGuy has an agenda that isn't on our map
This is all very nice and even bordeline romantic in a revolutionary sort of way. But the only way OWS can survive and succeed is by entering the political arena. We need representation in DC. We need to be focused and narrow our issues and beome a "Tea Party" of the left (bad analogy, but I hope you get my point)
Oh, I am totally with you on that. I get your point completely. I think this is a three step process. I'm simply stating here in one post what has been said by others on this forum about what steps are required.
Step one is for the 99% to realize they are the 99%. To realize that they have the power. Once we realize that, we will be be making decisions from a position of unified strength rather than demands from a position of divided weakness.
Step two would be for general assemblies to continue to form around the country and then for people to gather in Philadelphia next July for national Gen. assembly. At that national Gen. assembly, 870 representatives would be elected, two for each congressional district in the U.S. (one man, one woman). Then a national Gen. Assembly meeting would determine a list of priorities or goals and these would be presented to Congress with a deadline. If Congress did not pass legislation leading to the achievement of the stated goals of the national Gen. assembly by the stated deadline, the movement would move swiftly to run candidates to oppose any and all existing congresspeople.
If that effort were successful, the people would be in a position of power and would be able to make decisions from a position of unified strength rather than making demands from a position of divided weakness.
However, if our candidates were generally unsuccessful at winning office, we would then have no choice but to engage in direct nonviolent action on a massive scale reminiscent of the civil rights movement in the U.S. In that case, the course of action might look something like this:
http://occupywallst.org/forum/proposed-list-of-demands-please-help-editadd-so-th/#comment-148823
I honestly hope that isn't necessarily but believe it will be effective if it comes to that. All other options must first be exhausted.
Looks like Glenn Beck went from step 1, to step 2 and is advocation step3 of Gandi's 4 step process
Looking forward to step 4 where we prevail and he joins us.
I like that quote.
Fun and true :)
A phoenix will rise, and it will have the spirit of OWS with new knowledge, made with resolve from the simple awareness of how to use the power of our first constitutional right, Article V,---
Article. V.
The Congress, whenever two thirds of both Houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose Amendments to this Constitution, or, on the Application of the Legislatures of two thirds of the several States, shall call a Convention for proposing Amendments, which, in either Case, shall be valid to all Intents and Purposes, as Part of this Constitution, when ratified by the Legislatures of three fourths of the several States, or by Conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other Mode of Ratification may be proposed by the Congress; Provided that no Amendment which may be made prior to the Year One thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any Manner affect the first and fourth Clauses in the Ninth Section of the first Article; and that no State, without its Consent, shall be deprived of its equal Suffrage in the Senate.
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- We need activism in states. Peaceful assemblies, enmasse, addressing the legislations demanding immediate application by the legislature to congress for an Article V convention to amend.
I am seriously so happy now that I've read this. True light at the end of a long tunnel. I love when the Phoenix rises!
It is very important to focus on natural law as it is found in the constitution. The awareness of how it works as an unspoken agreement between us, protecting our lives and the lives of future generations, is the phoenix.----- The spirit of the simple and hardy sacrifices made by the OWS protestors, will join with a special wisdom soon. Then the rising.
Beautiful :)
A new video with some comments from the Harvard conference on Article V September 25 with Mark Meckler (tea party) and Lawrence Lessig.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-7ikbvu0Y8
OWS- Simple Protest or Zombie Outbreak?
Find out for yourself here:
Watch the second episode of the Les Dowrey Show here as “Les Dowrey Occupies Wall Street!”
OWS- Simple Protest or Zombie Outbreak?
Find out for yourself here:
Watch the second episode of the Les Dowrey Show here as “Les Dowrey Occupies Wall Street!”
If OWS was working for an Article V convention, this would be possible, "And OWS should start by NOT allowing Barack Obama, the single biggest beneficiary of Wall Street money, to have a 2nd term.".
Only article V has the far reaching authority to act in solution towards demands.
Where do I learn more about this article V? I'm not up to speed.
This page,---
http://algoxy.com/poly/article_v_convention.html
Has selected links. It is of the US consitution, Our first right.
Article. V.
The Congress, whenever two thirds of both Houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose Amendments to this Constitution, or, on the Application of the Legislatures of two thirds of the several States, shall call a Convention for proposing Amendments, which, in either Case, shall be valid to all Intents and Purposes, as Part of this Constitution, when ratified by the Legislatures of three fourths of the several States, or by Conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other Mode of Ratification may be proposed by the Congress; Provided that no Amendment which may be made prior to the Year One thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any Manner affect the first and fourth Clauses in the Ninth Section of the first Article; and that no State, without its Consent, shall be deprived of its equal Suffrage in the Senate.
Cool. Thanks for helping to bring me up to speed. I'll study this. So, just so I understand, is this the "way in" or Achilles heel of the system that would allow regular citizens a chance to regain power?
Citizens with agreement, state bound don't matter. We know the rights we need.-----
Citizens assemblies and demands need to be upon the state to compel state legislations. Then the legislations submit to congress as can be seen in a link from 1929 by Wisconsin.---- When the people go into the streets of their state, they need to carrry the message to legislators that the time for congress denying their duty is over.-
You will see they have been inviolation of the constitution for a longtime. That is how the country has gotten so messed up.
http://foavc.org/file.php/1/Amendments/index.htm
Yes, by working closely together, and with state legislators in special elections on ratification of proposals, the citizens gain total power of the constitution and can alter or abolish parts of it in amendment.-----
Congress and the whole bunch are lawyers that have learned how to work the rules, and the people are dumbed down by global foundations for about a 100 years now. We need to focus on constitutional principle, and be sure all aspects of government exemplify it.-
Very much a time for direct democratic action. The problem is mostly that leadership, when you can find it, won't focus on getting corporate media under control. Not sure much can be done if people are still paying attention and the lies and distraction keep flowing.
You should write a simple plain English doc that a house husband or housewife in Des Moines would understand and embrace. You are really onto something. I can feel it. But it needs to be digestible by millions.
Well, starting with Article V itself is the best. This is how it works with our governments.----
Article. V.
The Congress, whenever two thirds of both Houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose Amendments to this Constitution, or, on the Application of the Legislatures of two thirds of the several States, shall call a Convention for proposing Amendments, which, in either Case, shall be valid to all Intents and Purposes, as Part of this Constitution, when ratified by the Legislatures of three fourths of the several States, or by Conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other Mode of Ratification may be proposed by the Congress; Provided that no Amendment which may be made prior to the Year One thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any Manner affect the first and fourth Clauses in the Ninth Section of the first Article; and that no State, without its Consent, shall be deprived of its equal Suffrage in the Senate.
You need to join with your fellow Dirt Bagger Party protesters in the park. Meet tomorrow at noon in the big tent.
Have already spent some quality time in Liberty Plaza. Great vibe. Good people through and through.
It's awesome! Hope it never ends. Dirt Baggers Party
I'm right there with you my friend. Are you in the park at the moment?
No. Will be there tomorrow. DBP
Awesome. The energy there is amazing. Timeless. It feels pregnant.
Don't count your chickens just yet.
We can't get cocky.
Wiki Occupy Wall Street
http://www.wikioccupywallst.org
United We Stand ! Let's Build it Together ! Yes we are Us . . .
These people have said it so well. And those who pretend to be our friends come up with urgent strategies the would make us easy to defeat, See below.
Our job is not to listen to them.
Those people did say it well, but each one of them had a cause and demand that the quotes backed up. We have the cause, and I am not saying the demands have to come right now, they should be well thought out and planned. But let's not fool ourselves here thinking that just sitting going "you're bad!" will change anything.
Understanding the issues is important How else can you evaluate proposed solutions? By the time we are all ready for that we can take the temperature of the 1%.
You threw out a bunch of quotes, not actual reasons. I support OWS for the most part but throwing out motivational quotes will only work for so long. Those people you quoted, they actually did things, they had a solid goal and "a dream" if you will. OWS right now has a bunch of people, with varying opinions camping in a lot of towns going "there are evil people!".
Right now it is new and shiny and the masses are behind it becuase the masses are angry and you picked the biggest easiest to blame target. If the movement stagnates and and there is no change, no action, no direction for it other than being mad at evil doers then you will suffer attrition and your support will wane.
I'm glad to see your spirit, but instead of throwing out inspiring quotes, start putting together a game plan.
Gameplan: http://occupywallst.org/forum/to-those-who-think-occupy-wall-street-needs-offici/
Gameplan: http://occupywallst.org/forum/proposed-list-of-demands-please-help-editadd-so-th/#comment-148823
For the first link... that isn't a gameplan, that's just you going "we don't need a plan! Us just sitting here will make change!" Well you can put me in a room with a tiger and yes, at first i'll be scared but if it just sits there i'll worry less and less about it and eventually just think of it as a non threatening house cat.
As for the second game plan you listed, yes, I like those and I agree with those and hope they become the actual focus of the movement. But it still doesn't change the fact that your "11 reasons" are not reasons but simply inspirational quotes.
Quotes have meaning. That meaning connects us viscerally to something within us, a place of resolve that cannot be touched. In fact, any attempt to assault or scare a person with such resolve will only serve to strenthen their resolve. We have a spirit that dogs can't bite. And that's the reason we can't help but win at this point. You can call them just quotes. But they mean something. They describe a resonance in the public. And anyone who doubts the power of the public when they get something in their head does so at their peril. This is a non-violent movement but it is powerful and it is on the side of justice.
Is that "something within us" actually a campaign for "Hope and Change"? For some reason, that sounds familiar but I do not recall where I heard it...
The point is that you need solid action points that can be executed. Not slogans that do not require something to actually be produced. You want everyone to feel good with your slogans, but it is like getting drunk or high; you feel good during the time but not so good as you come down off it and face reality. Too many people have skin in the game to fully support giving up more of their skin, the 50% that actually pay taxes. Those who have no skin in the game have nothing to lose but only something to gain. In many ways, this is class warfare. Of that 99%, somebody is going to be at the bottom of the rankings. You want communism, ask Russians how equally the wealth was shared amongst each other during the time. Look at China and how equally people live in harmony.
Get action points if you want support of the 50% who pay taxes! Something tangible.
I think you might have missed this above ↥ ↧ therising 2 points 2 hours ago Gameplan: http://occupywallst.org/forum/to-those-who-think-occupy-wall-street-needs-offici/ Gameplan: http://occupywallst.org/forum/proposed-list-of-demands-please-help-editadd-so-th/#comment-148823
Now is definitely too soon for any official demands. But that doesn't mean we can't talk amongst ourselves and learn more about each other by exchanging ideas about what we see necessary in the future.
Ok, let me try to explain it this way: Politicians spout out quotes along with good sounding speeches and motivational words all the time, but don't deliver on any of it (as this movement clearly knows). Right now just hearing a bunch of people say good and wonderful words about freedom, and justice is like listening to a political campaign: It sounds good but can turn out to be full of crap. So less pretty talk and more action.
Sid. I like you. And understand your sense of urgency. But you're the guy at the bakery who is so excited about eating the cake and others trying it too that you take it out of the oven when it's still all mushy. Wouldn't it be far more satisfying if it were finished cooking?
I do agree with you in that it should be well thought out and not rushed. However I just feel there should be less fluff talks and back patting(couldn't think of better words, sorry no insults meant) and more serious discussions on how to go about change like the second link you sent me when discussing game plans.
I'm all for that. So please give me your top four or five points of reaction to that second link. I'd love to discuss. Now is a great time to discuss. I don't think we're ready to have official demands yet.
OK, so a few things I have opinions on and questions about:
5 The commission is definatly in need of reform and number 5 has some very good points. However my questions are who will ensure that those hired are legit and will do their job as well as where will the funding be comeing from?
The commission is there already but as we can see it is already corrupted. Putting more people there and giving more money to them will do no good if we don't have a way to ensure the people that are put in there are good people who won't turn a blind eye.
As for raising the budget for this commission. How? where does the money come from? As it stands the country is already majorly in debt, which is another issue by itself but it plays a part in this discussion. We can't just throw more money into the system. If we put more funds into this (which should happen) it has to come from somewhere. Do we raise taxes? Take from another department? How?
The raising taxes takes us back to #4:
We should all be able to agree on taxing everyone an equal percent. The question for #4 that needs to be asked is should those who can afford to take more out of their profits be made to pay a higher % than the rest for the good of the whole? Basically should we punish honest success by taking more out of the successful?
Another note is on #7. I do agree on this for the most part but you should also not limit someones career options just because of a previous job. Currently the company I work for has an agreement in which I am not allowed to work for a competitor for up to 3-4 years after my leaving the company. I think this would be a good rule to apply to #7.
Sorry if it's a bit jumbled. A little tired.
Certainly, I have to get to work but would be more than happy to talk about those points later this evening. Have a good day sir! =)
Cool
Fuck you, you communist bastard, my friends and family have served this country to give you the freedom to protest, and all you can think of to do is sit your unemployed ass outside of the offices of people who are working a hell of a lot harder than you? You are a communist, hippie, and GDI you piece of shit. 100% proud to be the 1%
Actually I own a company and probably make more than you do. I just happen to realize that this movement is fighting for all of us. You know why? Here's why: http://occupywallst.org/forum/i-am-the-ceo-of-a-company-thats-been-in-business-a/#comment-148715
If you actually own any type of profitable company then that means you have some type of intelligence and can explain to me the platform, plan, and expectation of this cluster-fuck of a protest.
Got ya. Well, here ya go with some explanation. Be sure to read "our turn"
Link 1: http://occupywallst.org/forum/to-those-who-think-occupy-wall-street-needs-offici/
Link 2: http://occupywallst.org/forum/proposed-list-of-demands-please-help-editadd-so-th/#comment-148823
Got ya. Well, here ya go with some explanation. Be sure to read "our turn"
Link 1: http://occupywallst.org/forum/to-those-who-think-occupy-wall-street-needs-offici/
Link 2: http://occupywallst.org/forum/proposed-list-of-demands-please-help-editadd-so-th/#comment-148823
Those do help, but I am just wondering why people think the one percent is scared of them? They depend on the "system" that the one percent has built, all of the technology that they are using to even communicate is manufactured by the one percent. What is your plan on how to change the one percent? All it sounds like to me is people advocating the redistribution of wealth but not wanting to admit that what they are advocating is communism.
No. Not communism. Democratic community. The commun word root is tere though. It's the opposite of "every man for himself."
Here, I think this last link of mine will explain it. Just take 3 minutes an watch this and try to not use an ad hominem when you respond. Try to respond to the stats towards end (but you need to watch beginning to get there. 3 minutes. I challenge you. We're about to turn this world upside down in a good Edward. Revolution my friend. Here's why we we're doing it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvVAPsn3Fpk&feature=youtube_gdata_player
How is implementing true democracy going to change the fact that the one percent have so much and evryone else has "so little." Democracy and capitalism go hand in hand.
The 99% will be making decisions from a position of unified strength rather than making demands from a position of divided weakness.
I served this country -- and note that you did not. So bow down and be beholden for me for protecting your freedom of speech. No one is asking your permission, and protest, democracy looks -- well it looks like the protesters. Just out of curiosity, what would an "appropriate" protest look like to you (since we do have the freedom to protest)?
there are millions of reasons this movement will succeed, everyone of us
Right on!!
My friend always used to say the following; "When everyone is shooting at you; it means that you must be doing something right." OWS has struck a nerve with it's opponents. This is why we have seen so much criticism in the news about it (particularly certain news channels which I won't name here.)
The "disorganized group of hippie/disgruntled youth" have come a long way. That was the way the media played this movement out from the beginning and now look at how far it has spread. Why it spread so far? Well, because so many people realize what OSW has been trying to put a spotlight on is true! We are living under a plutocracy. We are the 99%.
Mark my words this will spread further. As long as we have these social/economic injustices that are robbing the 99% you will have OWS there to protest against it. The great awakening has started and people are outraged! Viva la Revolution!!!!
They are shooting aren't they? But we have a spirit dogs can't bite.
Viva la revolution is right!
Why are you claiming to be the 99%, the majority of the people who answered the polls in CBS and Time support your movement, how many people is that? 50,000-100,000 at the most. The people who didn't answer most likely don't care or are against you, but I could be wrong. You want change and a better life for "the 99%" but you don't realize that the changes your asking for will make more people unemployed, if you restrict the profits of businesses and corporations why would they hire workers, they would lay off more workers. The very wealthy cut back on their spending even more on things like charitable donations, yes they do give money to charity. I bet if you added all the money given to charities from the 1%, it would tower over the money give by the 99%. Just take Bill Gates and Warren Buffet, two men who made their wealth in two different ways, both donated half their net worth to charities, totally around $80billion dollars. There are jobs out there, look around, go to McDonalds I'm sure they'll hire you, you think your above doing that job, or else you would have tried to get it. Your intentions are good but the changes you want wouldn't be positive. People also forget who are country was set up by, at their time when they said the people, they meant white men who owned property. And in most European countries, contribution by corporations are limited and their are caps on your budget for campaigning, why are they protesting?
Why are you claiming to be the 99%, the majority of the people who answered the polls in CBS and Time support your movement, how many people is that? 50,000-100,000 at the most. The people who didn't answer most likely don't care or are against you, but I could be wrong. You want change and a better life for "the 99%" but you don't realize that the changes your asking for will make more people unemployed, if you restrict the profits of businesses and corporations why would they hire workers, they would lay off more workers. The very wealthy cut back on their spending even more on things like charitable donations, yes they do give money to charity. I bet if you added all the money given to charities from the 1%, it would shit all over the money give by the 99%, Bill Gates and Warren Buffet, two men who made their money in entirely different ways, both donated, Gates is still in the process of giving his away, half of their net worth, totaling around $80 billion from 2 people. There are people who do manipulate and use for their gains only. There are jobs out there, look around, go to McDonalds I'm sure they'll hire you, you think your above doing that job, or else you would have tried to get it. Your intentions are good but the execution would not bring positive changes
Actually, I'm not sure you understand what a statistically significant poll is. The statistically significant polls by CBS and Time showed a statistical majority of people in U.S. support Occupy Wall Street movement. That's over 150 million people dude. Makes you shiver doesn't it?
And boy oh boy do the business folks have you fooled. Read this man. You'll have a whole new view :). I hope you have the guts to read this: http://occupywallst.org/forum/i-am-the-ceo-of-a-company-thats-been-in-business-a/
You are simply occupying space. Newsflash for you....you are not "occupying" NYC. Life and business goes on around you.
You are an ostrich. Do you realize that in four short weeks the 99% have risen up and been heard around the world? Do you realize that we are now occupying the agenda....Listen carefully. You will hear conversations that were unthinkable a month ago and the mainstream press is even helping now to spread the word. It's happening. This movement is transforming into a revolution. Join in. You too are part of the 99%. We welcome you with open arms.
No thanks.Glad for you that you have an agenda and maybe a goal in life. I have a family to feed and a home to maintain. I work hard to do both and am thankful I live in a country where you can voice your opinion and demonstrate peacefully. It looks like some of the OWS protestors forgot about the peaceful part yesterday in Times Square. Try a little hard work and you might be surprised how far it gets you. It's not as easy as spending your days making posters and shouting your opinions. Check the newspapers and internet today, you are definately not occupying the agenda in mainstream America. I had to look hard to find the pictures of yesterdays "protest" in TimesSquare.
We are working hard to make it easier for you to feed your family. Read a little more. You can't bury your hea in the sand forever. This is about you and your family. This is about working hard. Just like the people of India did when they pushed the British out. Just like millions of protesters in the U.S. did during the civil rights movement. Or do you think those were small time too?
No, not at all. And another newsflash for you. Nothing bad about hard work. What usually happens is if you work hard and you do a good job...you get a raise. It happens all the time. And...my head is not buried in the sand. What part of what you are doing is " working hard"?
Hmmm. So all of those unemployed people are just lazy and it's Obama's fault that the economy is in the tank. Has nothing to do with deregulation of corporations (which made the ground ripe for speculation) or spending a trillion dollars on a useless Iraq war right? Isn't this your narrative? Please correct me if I have it wrong. It's your lie. Tell it however you like. :)
I like the way you think! :-) All statements are very true!
It's time to take the gloves off and engage in non-violent direct action. It's time to really turn this thing around. We're on our way :)
Best of luck to you. Hope you are gone by the time I bring my family to NYC for our annual holiday trip. And for a group who denounce " big business", you sure have a lot of Iphones, Ipads, Droids, MacBooks...
We will still be here for your holiday trip. Please feel free to stop by and chat. You are part of the 99% and we welcome you with open arms.
You forgot to send the invite with your evil iPad or iPhone, made in China.
Actually I bought my device from an unemployed Ron Paul supporter so hopefully I got a bit of good karma there Jetson. You still working for Mr. Spacely or did he ship jobs over to other side of galaxy where there are no child labor laws or environmental restrictions?
The people are rising :)
2011....The year humanity began to see light at the end of the tunnel again!
PPSS - "There's nothing so powerful as an idea whose time has come."
PS - # 12 - We've only just begun.