11.11.11 Veterans Day Concert and Rally for the 99%. Foley Square 1pm.
Posted 13 years ago on Nov. 10, 2011, 2:16 p.m. EST by OccupyWallSt
"Honor the Dead, Fight Like Hell For the Living"
When: Friday, 11/11/11, 1 PM
Where: Foley Square, New York City
Who: Sergent Shamar Thomas, Joan Baez, Ryan Harvey, Joseph Arthur, Max Rameau from Take Back the Land, a speaker from OWS, and a speaker from the Iraq Veterans Against The War.
Other amazing artists and speakers to be announced soon. Stay Tuned.
As a veteran, I strongly support OWS. It is time for everyone to stand up and fight for the good government I fought to preserve.
By the way, CORPORATIONS are not people... regardless of what a slight majority of old men on the Supreme Court says.
There are no corporations buried in Arlington National Cemetery.
Sign at OWS: I'll believe corporations are people when Texas executes one of them!
The right wing has been spending money indoctrinating the American judges for the last 20 years by sending them to free seminars they sponsor. If only ordinary citizens can afford to do the same, the courts might be fairer.
Big Business: Regulations are bad for businesses and the economy.
Supreme Court of the USA: Corporations have free speech rights
Mitt Romney: Corporations are Human
Humans are subject to the death penalty.
Death penalty is not a business regulation. (In fact the Death Penalty is good for business: thousands of dollars are expended to carry it out.)
Conclusion: Death penalty for CEO's and Board of Directors who commit crimes against Society.
No, no, no...ceremonial deaths are not the solution, as another crop of unscrupulous people will emerge. The corruption is a systemic problem and the system must be revealed and identified. The death penalty is too forgiving, let Greenspan, Rubin, Summers, Geithner, Paulsen, and now Corsine, as the list goes on and on, let them be subject to public trials and sentenced to hard labor.
IMHO the best way to punish rich men who commit crimes is to turn them into poor ones and then let them live as we have to. In olden times there existed just such a punishment for nobility - which is what these people have become in all but name - and that was called "Banishment". It's time to bring it back.
Like in "Trading Places" with Dan Akroyd and Eddie Murphy? Sure, whatever makes a person empathic of others.
If the crime fits, I'm all for it! I'd be ok with a syringe full of drain-cleaner jammed in to their hearts.
Wow, you really are the closer with your eye for an eye mentality.
Not only that, sounds like torture would also be fine by you as well.
There's some right wingers who would love to have you on their side.
I'm being facetious of course.
Actually corporations are partially defined as people because they are the aggregation of people. Therefore, if a corporation is found guilty of a crime it is the shareholders that should, technically, be punished, as they are the corporation. So if a corporation commits murder, at least in Texas, then every single shareholder should be executed, not the CEO who is just an employee of the corporation.
Shareholders hire an agent to represent them. That agent is the management of the firm headed by the CEO. Shareholders pick the board of directors who are supposed to oversee the management team. Boards fail to do what the share holders want, and CEO's fail to follow their contract with shareholders. CEO's and Board Members are the ones who are culpable.
Just look at current law, there are many case studies: Bernie Ebbers, Enron. Instead of merely imprisoning the criminals, they should be given the death sentence. In this regard, the proposal does not call for radical changes in the law, but merely an increase in the severity of punishment to include the death penalty. We should be fair to real human, shouldn't we?
After we fine them every dime they ever confiscated.
Another idiotic call for murder. You people are sad.
See remark above.
http://occupywallst.org/article/tomorrow-111111-veterans-day-concert-and-rally-99-/#comment-337088
It's a reductio ad absurdum.
It's ok to be pro-life and pro-death penalty my republican friend.
Under proper circumstances yes. However OWS calls for the murder of anyone who disagrees with them. Pretty sad isin't it?
sad and false
I don't believe that OWS calls for the murder of anyone who disagrees with them.
I think a vocal minority, who aren't very thoughtful in re. to the implications of the poorly-thought-out use of their keybopards, and haven't completely grown out of their adolescent and post-adolescent overdose of testosterone, are likely the culprits who talk loosely of violence.
I wonder if they were aware of the damage that it does to the Movement as a whole, if they would be so brazen as to constantly write about killing those they feel wronged by?.
You are right. Violence is never a solution and a pervasive practice by the US government, which is found to be suitable, if not out-right promoted, by the American Corporations as they need help raiding countries for their natural resources. The Government exacts murder against anyone who is in the way of 'American Interests'. If the Corporate Citizen is measured in the same way the private citizen is, then we are harboring war criminals and consenting to their prosperity.
Whatever pleases you in the moment, right?
Just make it up as you go along. Whatever fits.
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Ah, yes, but if equality were the goal, then it wouldn't be necessary to pay anybody off.
and the left doesn't do the same?
I like that...
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Give it a rest, Rambo. I'm sure you'd happily commit violence against OWS protestors if you weren't afraid you'd be filmed and caught. And on the subject of "their violence all over the news," be honest and admit you've never considered it, you just want it to be true because it will confirm your poorly thought out "ideas" about the movement. The logistical problems of the Occupation in Zuccotti Park make it way harder to claim that these acts of violence were actually committed by participants in OWS. It's a park that's open to the public so anyone can walk in regardless of whether they actually intend to participate in the demonstration and the police have opted to stand on the sidelines behind barriers they constructed. So, yeah, there have been occasional acts of violence committed by people in Zuccotti Park (although they certainly don't happen every day), and, no we don't know if they were actually legitimate protestors, or just psychos, or maybe even plants (and there's a long and extremely well-documented history of law enforcement planting people in leftist groups with the deliberate intent of discrediting them).
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Well maybe they need to fight back a little. Emphasis on a little. Government should fear the people not he other way around.
corporations are executed all the time. Lehman Bros, Enron, Solyndra ?
I believe those were suicides
Suicides that raped the american people, via Obamas 535 million dollar gift before they went tits up.
Small business owners and local residents fed up with the “Occupiers” at Zuccotti Park in New York City are planning a counterprotest and news conference of their own Monday, to make clear the crowd has long overstayed its welcome — and that businesses will not survive if the “occupation” continues.
Flyers are being passed around at small businesses and residential buildings around the park in downtown Manhattan promoting a “Protest against the Occupy Wall St. and Mayor Bloomberg who does nothing to get them to leave.”
The news conference is scheduled for Monday at 5 p.m. on the steps of City Hall.
In recent days, shopkeepers, restaurant owners and others with small businesses located near Zuccotti Park have been quietly meeting to share stories of the damage they say has been caused by Occupy Wall Street: "theft of property, vandalism, threats, violence and even incidents involving the throwing of fecal matter."
I think OWS had better disturb the big corporations and not do any kind of disruption to small businesses , many of which can turn to the big guys to secure their position. OWS should actively show that they are not trouble makers , but rather pioneers of introducing a newer fairer way of doing things, regardless of the social class. Even billionaires know that peace and happiness can be better for them than greed, avarice and anxiety and above all the dirty competition that has become the routine of their lives.
Lehman and Enron were more like suicides.
*A video showing the "Wealth Gap" in the U.S. -- Seeing it visually like this makes it clearer -- Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7tmZv1o5Ac
Wow thanks
You're welcome.
They were hardly executed, as people knowingly caused them to be failing institutions. The point is that you cannot execute or bury a corporation, as it is am immaterial entity that has limited accountability to the people, while the people are beholden to offer up their lives, their environments, and their identities to the preservation of the corporation. People hide their misdeeds behind corporate interests and this is not acceptable.
blah blah blah
Thank you for your service and you are correct NO Corporations are buried in any cemetery, although there's been a few in bankruptcy court.
In the concept (which I can not accept) that corporations are people there is one feature of people that is lacking, personal responsibility.
The rest of what they are lacking is too much to even begin to list.
I think we need to eliminate two party representational government since the 50 50 split in the electorate proves it has reached its limit to serve the people. With existing technology, we could bring back true democracy, allowing every citizen to vote daily, over the Internet, on all issues.
I also think we should eliminate all forms of lobbying.
I also think we need a constitutional amendment which would permanently remove the "corporate veil," and make the top 10% of all holders in the stock of any company legally responsible for the actions of the corporation.
These are good ideas, except that in order to make voting a valuable action, people need the time and education to be able to vote for what matters. Given how the office of the President of the U.S. has been so deeply compromised, it begs the question why do we spend so much money and time participating in this national ruse? Let all the people making decisions and effecting policy behind the scenes be accounted for, instead of blindly worshiping one person. It won't be as fun, or as simple, but it has to be more rewarding. This nonsense of being slaves to a dying economic ideology is...nonsense.
We've many issues to face, yet we can only face a few at a time, sometimes only one at a time...some things will change as a evolutionary result as old concepts and ideas drop in favor of new ones.
Yes, we have the capability to enter into a democratic system where every vote counts and each individual will have their say...whether or not we are ready for it is another question for another day. I'd like to think we are ready.
Lobbying...it's a plus/minus situation. It's been bastardized from it's origins into what it is today. Lobbying was once a way to bring the citizens concerns before our legislators, today it's the way to get laws passed no matter what they are...
Perhaps with the technology we have today we could devise a system where any citizen could put forth an issue and discussion evolve with a possible consensus to place it before our governing body.
Lots to consider and lots of time to make the correct choices for that consideration.
when evaluating (judgeing) try to think without the hierarchy of: worse, bad, good, better, best.
this is a cognitive conundrum: democracy and equality are relative concepts determined by struggle
Thank you 'Toynbee' for serving our country. And thanks again for being a conscientious Patriot as well. I salute you!
I was in Afghanistan I saw KBR there but they were slave laborers, using the locals for less than $1 per hour, to do jobs they got contracted to do by our government for X-100 that. this is how we show democracy to the world.
Thanks for your service 'yarichin', paying the locals that much It's how we show the power of bribery.
Thank you for the post! We are happy to be supporting the Veteran community.
Your last line should be enshrined in granite at Arlington, Tony.
Thank you for the profound remark that rings so true.
AT ARLINGTON ((Nov. 3, 2011)
I found my soul Caressing its hand re-introducing ourselves Turning to behold the Autumn surround Only to lose sight again
This is not where it ends or begins This place in Arlington on hills dressed in orange
this simply is
An accounting on boards for believers right or wrong Who gave their all or saw it stolen from them
Leaving babies, wives, and mothers, sisters, daughters, and brothers Fathers and those yet to be to walk forward without all but memories
A pride consumes some with this path's hue for others the suffering of a thousand losses
Oh how the vaccum leaves a void
Tears for General Sorrow feed the oaks where leaves land on cheeks brought by wind demanding composure
There they watch time passing. Don't cry
These oaks not new to death standing watch for centuries holding memories of all who rest entombed here
Family members slumber beside honored loved ones finally joined in peace beneath tapestries of green gold and orange The colors of anger and love, and autumn.
The crispness of another winter preparing to envelop them blanketing them in white; in final purity
Hiding tears, evading tourists Sadness springing forth from the connection for no one reason no, a 100,000 reasons Such death framed in such beauty As is the life they led And continue to lead. In our memories
At Arlington
D. Nelson
Alaska
Nor has any Corporation sacrificed itself for kin and country either, bad for the share-holders you see. But what they have always done is make profit from it.
Find out more: http://thedc.com/ukPI62
That is a saying worth repeating! Indeed, there are no corporations buried in Arlington National Cemetery.
Corporations are neither "citizen organizations," as the hierarchy of corporations denies people their individual dignity.
There are no corporations buried in Arlington National Cemetery, but the bodies of so many young people who have died defending corporate interests.
cheers to our vets!
Ive been hearing they are going to have to make robots people. Its the only way that Romney and Perry will be allowed to be the Republican nominee. They are'nt even as real as the robots at The Hall of Presidents in Orlando.
Corporations are as much people as unions are. As long as unions are allowed to contribute to political campaigns, corporations can too.
stop them both - join us Nov 12 6PM 60 Wall St we are the 83%
We have a large number of great, well thought out, COMPLICATED ideas that will require a huge amount of "selling" and “explanation" and will garner GREAT OPPOSITION.
We need to be realistic & pick an issue that is simple – and that is popular -
that 83% of Americans already agree on -
that 76% of Republicans already agree on -
that 56% of TP already agree on -
that will bring together the people in OWS with the people outside of OWS.
Everybody wins!
Our only goal should be to pass a constitutional amendment to counter Supreme Court decisions Citizens United (2010) & Buckley v. Valeo (1976), that enable unlimited amounts of anonymous money to flood into our political system.
“Corporations and organizations are not a persons & have no personhood rights”
and
“money is not free speech”.
We don’t have to explain or persuade people to accept our position – we have to persuade them to ACT based on their own position. Pursuing this goal will prove to the world that we, at OWS, are a serious realistic Movement, with serious realistic goals. Achieving this goal will make virtually every other goal – jobs, taxes, infrastructure, Medicare – much easier to achieve –
by disarming our greatest enemy – GREED.
THE SUCCESS STORY OF THE AMENDING PROCESS The Prohibition movement started as a disjointed effort by conservative teetotalers who thought the consumption of alcohol was immoral. They ransacked saloons and garnered press coverage here and there for a few years. Then they began to gain support from the liberals because many considered alcohol partially responsible for spousal and child abuse, among other social ills. This odd alliance, after many years of failing to influence change consistently across jurisdictions, decided to concentrate on one issue nationally—a constitutional amendment. They pressured all politicians on every level to sign a pledge to support the amendment. Any who did not, they defeated easily at the ballot box since they controlled a huge number of liberal, and conservative and independent swing votes in every election. By being a single-issue constituency attacking from all sides of the political spectrum, they very quickly amassed enough votes (2/3) to pass the amendment in Congress. And, within just 17 months, they were successful in getting ¾ of the state legislatures to ratify the constitutional amendment into law. (Others were ratified even faster: Eight —took less than a year. The 26th, granting 18-year-olds the right to vote, took just 99 days.)
If they could tie the left and right into a success -
If Ohio won. If Arizona won. If Maine won. If Mississippi won - WHY CAN'T WE ??????????
I feel that we should stay with this simple text to overturn CU:
”corporations are not people” and “money is not free speech”
for four simple reasons and one – not so simple:
1
83% of Americans have already opposed CU in the ABC/Washington post poll and the above
IS THEIR POSITION ALREADY.
2
We don’t have to work to convince people on the validity of our position.
3
Simple is almost always better.
4
This simple Amendment is REQUIRED to overturn CU.
And all other electoral reform can be passed through the normal legislative process.
5
OWS and these pages are chock full of ( mostly ) excellent ideas to improve our country.
All of them have strong advocates – and some have strong opposition.
None of them has been “pre-approved” by 83% of Americans !
Pursuing this goal – without additional specifics is exactly what Americans want.
What do we want? Look at that almost endless list of demands – goals - aims.
Tax the rich. End the Fed. Jobs for all, Medicare for all. So easy to state! Can you imagine how hard it would be to formulate a “sales pitch” for any of these to convince your Republican friends to vote for any of them?
83% of Americans have ALREADY “voted” against CU. And 76% of the Rs did too.
All we have to do ask Americans is to pressure their representatives – by letters - emails – petitions.
Wanna take your family on vacation?
Convince the 7 year old and the 10 year old to go to Mt Rushmore.
Then try to convince them to go to Disneyland.
Prioritizing this goal will introduce us to the world – not as a bunch of hippie radical anarchist socialist commie rabblerousers – but as a responsible, mature movement that is fighting for what America wants.
Ohio won. Arizona won. Maine won. Mississippi won -
I feel that using their tactics, and the tactics of the NRA, the AARP an the TP – who all represent a minority – who have successfully used their voting power to achieve their minority goals - plus the Prohibition Amendment tactics – bringing all sides together - is a straight path for us to success that cannot fail to enable us to create and complete one MAJORITY task.
We agree. Cap and enforce contributions to less not more than individuals permitted.
You have a good point, if a corporation were held responsible for it's actions like a union board is. If a union board breaks the law and are found out the person or people responsible go to jail. No one from BP is in jail over the oil spill. No one from Goldman Sachs is in jail for running the biggest Ponzi scheme in history. If I dumped a liter of oil in the ocean on camera, I would go to jail.
You might want to tell Bernie Ebbers this so he can get out of prison.
On July 13, 2005, federal judge Barbara S. Jones, of the U.S. District Court, Southern District of New York in Manhattan, sentenced Ebbers to twenty-five years in a federal prison in Louisiana. Ebbers was allowed to remain free for another year while his appeal was being considered. His conviction, however, was upheld in a federal circuit court on July 28, 2006.[21] On September 6, 2006, the presiding judge ordered him to report to jail[22] on September 26 to start serving his 25-year sentence. Ebbers self-reported to Oakdale Federal Correctional Institution in Oakdale, Louisiana on September 26, 2006, driving himself to the prison in his Mercedes.[23] He is serving his sentence as inmate #56022-054 [24] in the low-security portion of the complex, which typically houses non-violent offenders and is built more like a school dormitory. The earliest date he can be released is in July 2028, at which time he will be 87 years old.[25]
I used to work in a state prison. The place he got sent is a college dormitory. If he had stolen $5000 from a gas station he would be in a real, nasty, underfunded, overcrowded state prison.
Corps are just groups of people. Unions are just groups of people. In either case, illegal conduct by individuals within the group is and should be met with punishment.
We heard it when Romney said it. It elides the basic gripe: they're groups of people who have pooled their resources, put them under the direction of managers, sold shares to the broader public for returns that increase the size of the company, outsourced production to places with drastically cheaper labor (which exists mainly because those countries are impoverished and have basically no infrastructure but dictatorial militaries that are very useful in suppressing strikes), reaped huge profits by dumping their cheap goods back into the American market and effectively destroyed local competition, and, here's the point, then hid behind the "corporate personhood" doctrine to use some of those outsized profits to lobby to continue the continual slide toward total deregulation (i.e. lawlessness with a military) that has allowed them to do all of this in the first place.
Or, to put it in short form: the enormous size of large transnational corporations gives them enormous power to reap profits which they then use to lobby to get laws changed in their favor (all the while whining about how regulations make their lives so rough and patting themselves on the back for the jobs they aren't creating anymore). Sure, unions do this, too, but have relatively little power since most of their money comes from dues paid by hard-working people who just want to prevent themselves from being stomped into the ground by large corporations.
This is why so very few of the illegal activities of the corporate execs actually end up being punished.
Neither corporations nor unions are people.
They aren't buried in Arlington Cemetery.
They are not what our Founding Fathers meant when they wrote: "WE THE PEOPLE . . ."
http://getoffwallstreet.com/2011/10/07/topless-protesters-prove-occupy-wall-street-not-all-bad/
than you'll love this
Thanks.
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beautiful
"By the way, CORPORATIONS are not people" No, they definitely are not (the fact that we even have to have a debate about this is absolutely absurd) In fact, corporations are tyrannies, private tyrannies:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqlTyAMVDUk&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpd3grtjkK8
yours. s http://struggleforfreedom.blogg.no/
The guilty verdict in the Karen Silkwood murder case was overturned because the corporation was not a person. So apparently, when it comes to responsibility for their actions corporations are not people, but when it comes to personal liberties they are. How does that work?!
It´s very simple, really. It´s because the finacial elite are in charge: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MN2Q6sdh6Bg
excellent point
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So. . . if our Supreme Court says that corporations are people, what sex are they?
They are the new hermaphrodite species of humans, it's the natural course of evolution; the rest of us will die off and there will only be this new species left. Of course the SC doesn't believe in evolution, that's blasphemy, so obviously God must have planted this new species among us.
SC is just plain ridiculous
theyz a enormous ball of reptylez rolling around sexing themselves. fo sho
Did you see that drug resistant tuberculosis is ravaging the Atlanta protesters? I wonder what disease will hit them next?
Atlanta - CDC - 'nuf said
Who do you think developed Napalm, The Sherman Tank, and the M1 Garand? Of course there are no corporations buried at Arlington... their bury soldiers there. All the corporations are being buried by government fraud, waste and abuse. Brought to you by the Democratic party and Labor unions who have promised unreal wages and retirements sucking the life out of American business. Remember this, I have never gotten a job from a poor person
As a Vet..You are a disgrace to the rest of us
Hmmm. . . what did I do that is disgraceful?
Are you saying I should keep my yap shut and follow the crowd?
Isn't that what the Brown Shirts and Nazis demanded?
Yeah why they can't be good little fascists like you.
i too am a vet(viet nam) and had worked at our local va clinic-i supported viet-nam veteran's against the war's right to speak out then and support iraq veteran's against the war's right to speak out now.thank you my fellow vets and thank you ows. jriveral
America used to work The people had work. The system worked. EVEN the Congress used to work...(sometimes). It was far, far, far from perfect - but at least we all had some share in the struggles AND the rewards. But somewhere along the way, we lost our way. And now we have an economy and a political system that works only for the rich. Trickle down economics... just leaves most of us out in the rain. We need to get back to what America was, and what it should be, and what it can be. Occupy Wall Street is no longer just a place called Zuccotti Park --- Zuccotti Park is everywhere. You can try to pen us in, you can beat us and arrest us, you can mace and tear-gas us , and you can try to "permit" us to death....but you can't kill an idea. You can't keep down people’s hopes and dreams for a better life.....a life with dignity and freedom....for us... for our kids. More power to Occupy Wall Street, as it spreads to every town and city - because OWS is us, and for us, and by us. It comes up from the grassroots, and it lifts us up in turn. With OWS America has found it’s voice, and that voice demands fairness and justice. This land IS our land! And we want it back! ...We want our lives back!... We want our future back! ....,So why not find a quiet place and consider this: Each of us has only one brief life...one chance...and many choices. It’s time to choose, and to act. If not now, then when? If not you, then.....
You're a reactionary. We can't go back in time. The past is past. The global economy has changed.
Just one thing. I don´t think capitalism/state-capitalism has ever "worked". It leads to - and has always led to - exploitation, greed, injustice and the gradual destruction of the environment. Capitalist institutions are in fact also private tyrannies Now, of course, the system under FDR f.ex was better than the system under GWB, no doubt, but we can do much better than that. What we should do is replace capitalism with democracy! That way we can get real Freedom Yours s. sff
What capatalism leads to is cheap internet, computors, smartphones, and cushy lifestyles, that alowed retards like yourself the ability to post moronic ramblings that are neither logical nor true. Ive never got a job from a poor person
Wrong. Capitalism means person x profits on person y (cf "capital" in capitalism). Capitalism is by the way undemocratic and tyrannical What leads to cheap internet, computors, smartphones, and cushy lifestyles is the resault of generations of people building an advanced technological society
what percent of the world gets these things? these cushy lifestyles, cheap internet, smartphones, and computers? that this capitalism thing gives... how much of the world gets in on it? and what about the sourroundings of this process? if you're alive you must live somewhere? how's the ecology of this place this capitalism goes on in? if the answers are bummers, well, how do the futures for these things look? the supply of raw material and climate and all that? and what about man's propensity to carry others on his back? how long will fellow human beings take being the bottom load baring layers of a pyramid?
ahhhhh capitalism.
"What we should do is replace capitalism with democracy!"
What does that mean exactly?
Yeah, they say this all the time....Capitalism is an economic system while democracy is a form of governing....ask for an explanation and you usually get a "luxury economy" which relies on technology to produce everything we need with little to no human labor involved and where every one gets what they want and need for free....
First off, I want to say that I have a job that pays well, and so do a lot of the people at OWS, so criticisms that say "they're all lazy, out of work, and just want handouts" aren't going to fly. But, secondly, I understand where (ever-growing number of) people who are unemployed are coming from. They want to work; there are no jobs available (the official unemployment estimate is around 14 mil; recent estimates have shown the number of job openings to be somewhere around 3 mil, and that's before the breakdown in pay grades and length of contract; you can look that stuff up here: http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=3379). We're in a situation where the bad trade policies of the last forty years are catching up, and so we have an enormous surplus of goods and an ever-growing number of unemployed. What are these people suppose to do - starve? And that's only a part of the problem; there's the partially-employed, and the grossly underpaid. Over the last 40 years, larger corporations have made a good deal of their money not by "producing the best product at the lowest price" (although sometimes they've done that), but by taking advantage of economic policies that allow them to profit at the expense of their employees. Look at the history of any export processing zone in the poorer countries and you'll see the reason American jobs are outsourced. It's because of cheap labor, made available in large part by authoritarian governments that coax corporations by promising no taxes and a police force at their disposal that can suppress strikes (corporate execs seem not to have a problem with "big government" when it punishes unskilled labor in return for a few kickbacks). It's also a product of the restructuring of management and the deskilling of labor by the technology of production. Income gaps and restricted social mobility are the result of the longstanding conflicts between management and labor in US corporations (on that you can read any number of works; I'd start with William Lazonick's).
Outsourcing does NOT happen because of "excessive regulations" (there is a recent World Bank report that ranks the US fourth among the best places to do business, according in part to the measure of our federal regulations of business; you can access the document here: http://www.doingbusiness.org/). And it's not because of taxes, either. We have a marginal tax rate of 35% on corporations, sure, but the effective tax rate ends up putting the average among the 280 largest corporations somewhere around 18%, with some of the larger ones actually ending up with a negative tax liability (the information on that is here: http://ctj.org/ctjreports/2011/11/corporate_taxpayers_corporate_tax_dodgers_2008-2010.php ; this is a study conducted by a partisan group, but no one has disputed their conclusions because the information came from reputable sources). In my other response to Harry's question, I explained my own interpretation of struggle's statement, and how I think it's pretty sensible to say that capitalism of this kind has interfered with democracy.
So my point is, in the face of this, what are people supposed to do? They want work. They can't get work. They want a world where there are opportunities. The prevailing structure of the economic system drastically limits their opportunities.
"Capitalism is an economic system while democracy is a form of governing"
And what if we made the economy more democratic? Which category would that fall in?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YftlB3AxBws
sff
I don't speak for struggle, but that sentence has a number of reasonable interpretations. The first is that popular interpretations of these terms each rest on an idea of "freedom" that competes with the other's. People like Milton Friedman and Robert Nozick have argued (and this is a serious paraphrase) that human freedom rests on the ownership of property, and anything that violates that rule (including decisions made by a democratic state) is a curtailment of freedom. Advocates of "democracy" think otherwise - they think that a neutering of the responsible public body (Nozick's "minimal state") prevents the dispersion of power required for each person maximally to exercise his or her freedom (and anyone who says "replace capitalism with democracy" does not think of our current state as a "responsible public body," so it's not an argument against them to say that our current government causes problems). Translated into the terms OWS uses, liberal markets have allowed money unfairly to concentrate in very few hands, and these people have used that money to subvert democracy - they've spent it wildly disproportionately on lobbying further to break down the system of regulations that prevented them from using their disproportionate wealth - all to increase that disproportion even further. Replacing capitalism with democracy would make it impossible for wealth to concentrate that way. I think they're onto something with this. The whole idea that there's some sort of equal exchange between Walmart and an unemployed person in a region where Walmart is the only currently hiring employer (especially when Walmart destroyed local competition by dumping its cheap overstock) is a little specious. The idea that someone who hires another person to manage their already-substantial portfolio in order dramatically to increase its value has somehow "earned" the extra money, and, to go further, that the government has no right to tax that money, seems even more specious (here I'm leaving aside the gross unfairness of the fact that, in the aggregate, a lot of the financial transactions that "earn" these people more money make markets more unstable, and thus indirectly affect wage-earners when the market crashes). And, by the way, the robber barons agree with me. Andrew Carnegie, at the height of the roaring twenties, argued that capital gains should be taxed at a higher rate than earned income because the money wasn't "earned" like wages were. So, yeah, regulating capitalism to the point where everyone has a fair shot at a good life - replacing capitalism with democracy - makes sense.
http://struggleforfreedom.blogg.no/1320871888_replace_capitalism_wi.html
Capatalism is two sheep having dinner. Democracy is 2 sheep and a wolf deciding whats for diner. Listen, there is no word democracy in the constitution. Democracy is mob rule. We live in a republic. Rule of law. We have laws, and we live by them. simple. If you want, there are dozens of countries that you can move to. But I guarantee you will not be able to speak out against the government (and keep you head) Listen, play the game here... its the best and last place for freedom
There's also no word "capitalism" in the constitution.
Democracy is not mob rule. It is not two sheep and a wolf. There are various divers kinds of Democracy. The Founding Rebels used the word, and the Constitution is a result of the Democratic process, and it was ratified by Democratic vote in the States. It wasn't Capitolism, or a Republic that landed on the beaches of Normandy in 1943, it was Democracy. If you think it was Capitalism, read David Brinkleys book, Washington Goes To War. If you think it was a Republic, the House and the Senate stayed home. It was Democracy - think about it.
What was it that Benjamin Franklin told the crowd as he left the building? Wasn't it that they crafted a REPUBLIC? And didn't he follow that by saying "if you can keep it"?
Voter Apathy for decades has led to a takeover of our government by the rich - and its not just the rich in those corporations you all revile. Take a moment and google the net worth of our Congressional Members individually.....
you replying to me or to struggleforfreedom80?
He is just going to send you links to more nonsense and argue with circular logic based off of "man's desire to work" not man's desire to make a profit.
Thanks for the heads up. :-)
OWS = man's desire to NOT work and man's desire to LIVE OFF OF someone elses profit.
Oh, you mean like what happened in the enormous 08 taxpayer bailout..?
Goldman Sachs and Citibank executives taking a break from reading Friedmand and Rand, while running to the nanny-state for huge amounts of free of charge taxdollars when the system crashes...Beautiful
sff
That changes nothing....It may be true but OWS still = man's desire to NOT work and man's desire to LIVE OFF OF someone elses profit.
what´s really interesting about this "free ride" - debate is that even though the rich, which the right-wing tend to support, are becoming increasingly wealthy by doing less, the right always turn to the poor and working class when they want to give a speech about getting free rides and stealing the friuts of other people´s labor. Citibank first recieved their taxpayer bailout back in the 80s from Reagan and have since that, along with an increasing number of other corporations received an enormous sum of taxmoney. Is that not stealing the fruits of other people´s labor? And what about, let´s say, indonesian facory girls working 12 hours a day for 50 cents an hour at a Nike- factory so that Phil Knight and the rest of them can sell shoes and equipment for huge profits. Is that not getting a free ride?? Why isn´t this theft adressed by the right-wing? The rich, which have become rich mostly by pushing a few buttons at a computer at Wall Street, and/or exploiting workers in the US and all over the world, which isn`t exactly hard work, are being given more and more tax breaks and benefits by politicians, yet the right wing have the balls to criticize sick people for getting their medical bills covered by the government. To put it this way, as long as the wealthy are getting more and more recourses into their hands by doing very little, people should have no right lecturing the working class and poor for asking for welfare programs.
sure. It´s important to spread the truth, don´t you think. I can only imagine how pissed of you´ll get when you acknowledge the fact that the "Homo Economicus" theory is B.S., as science has shown.
Awesome I wish I could be there, I just saw something yesterday that said "we are too busy fighting for your freedom to occupy wall st -marines" This helps clear that up.
Solidarity and support from Manhattan Kansas.
Sadly, some soldiers still believe that ... so sad.
Marines are all volunteers like ows.
I mean sadly our soldiers still believe they are fighting for our freedom instead of the resource stealing and profiteering that our wars lately are about.
I remember her from the 60s >>>
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joan_Baez
Hey, this is a raw video I I shot from the Occupy Charleston mic-check of Michele Bachmann, Please put it up and give us some love! Keep fighting the good fight in New YOrk. WE LOVE YOU!!! http://youtu.be/Q9e34kHANHs?t=2m45s
Done that to any Democrats yet? When you do, I'll take this movement more seriously.
We will, not a whole lot of democrats come down to South Carolina to rally though : ) Plus, the only Democrat Presidential candidate would be Obama, and if he did come down here, with our limited Occupy group here in Charleston, and the secret service presence, I believe we'd have a much harder time pulling something like this off. Here is a video from on stage (this definitely wouldn't happen at an Obama speech). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DRhNt8yBrMg
nice!
http://news.yahoo.com/south-carolina-protesters-disrupt-michelle-bachmann-speech-193410522.html
More Power to Our U.S. Veterans who have fought for and protected our great country. More Power to Occupy Wall Street and everyone involved who are also fighting for and protecting our country. I like the Battle-Cry, "Honor the Dead, Fight Like Hell for the Living". Fair-ness.
i remember this day:11/11/11
as a vietnam veterm, i have never so much known 'the honor', but guilt and shame. this is a particular 'new america' conscience: defined as it is by ambivalence (i dont't care) on the one hand, and resentment (ill-will, that i, should care), on the other.
this i believe: we were the unwanted, who did the unnecesary, for the ungraiteful.
there is a granite wall ( it is not white), with all the names (but that is not true either).
if i could say to you "democracy=struggle=equality", then our lives, (your death,my life) will / would have had some meaning.
this is my testiment, my optimism/belief: unto to you, as you were unto me.
Thanks to Joan Baez for playing today....many fantastic blessings to all!!
i remember: 11/11/11
as a vietnan veteren, i have never known any 'other honor', but guilt and shame, a particular, 'new america' conscienece.
this 'new america' conscience is defined by ambivalence ('idon't care', on the one hand, and (resentment) i have ill-will that i should,. on the other.
this is my belief: we were the unwanted, who did the unnecessary, for the ungraitful.
and there is a black granite wall that so testifies.
this is my remembrance. this is my attempt to be unto you, as you were unto me.
don't need 11-11-11 to remind me that America will always be number one in my heart...the land and the people that I love. Problem is, America used to work. The people had work. The system worked. Hey, EVEN the Congress used to work...(sometimes). God knows, it was far, far, far from perfect - but at least we all had some share in the struggles AND the rewards. But somewhere along the way, we lost our way. And now we have an economy and a political system that seems to work only for the rich. What they call "trickle down economics"... leaves most of us out in the cold cold rain. We need to get back to what America was, and what it should be, and what it can be. Occupy Wall Street is no longer just a place called Zuccotti Park - Zuccotti Park is everywhere. You can beat us and arrest us, you can mace and tear-gas us, you can try to "permit" us to death....but you can't kill an idea. You can't keep down a people’s hopes and dreams for a better life.....a life with dignity and freedom....for us... and for our kids. More power to Occupy Wall Street, as it spreads to every town and city - because OWS is us, and for us, and by us. It comes up from the grassroots, and it lifts us up in turn. With OWS America has found it’s voice, and that voice demands fairness and justice - for ALL. This land IS our land! AND WE WANT IT BACK! We want our LIVES back! We want our FUTURE back! But It’s more than just words.... It’s more than just politics. It’s your life, and how you want to live it. So why not take some time, find a quiet place somewhere, and consider this: Each of us has only one brief life....one chance....one roll of the dice...and many choices. It’s time to choose....to risk...and to act. If not now...then when? If not you, then....who? You DO have the power my friend....and the choice is yours. Don’t let your dreams die....
THIS was incredible!
we must really remember the corruption that created these wars, the evil fascist male hierarchy that feeds us BS while their snouts are in the trough. WW1 was the deliberate mass slaughter of men to prevent a global socialist revolution. WW2 was started by prescott bush, the war on terror by gw bush. so we must not be brutalised by their patriotic war mongering BS. it is the suppression of women by this patriarchy that is the problem. we must establish DEMOCRACY with ABSOLUTE EQUALITY. we must celebrate peace with genuine joy in our community and forget these FAKE wars. we should refuse to buy veterans day poppies. they only make me cry. we should drive out the christian crusaders wanting a war against muslims "over there"! we must SMASH THE GLASS CEILING!
As a veteran I think you guys are pathetic. Your wasting my hard earned money doing your pointless protest. My tax dollars are going to fund your unemployment checks while you sit out side and do nothing. Do you know why you're not part of the 1%. Because your lazy. If you need a job I'd be happy to walk you down to the recruiters office and sign you up for the military. The army and marines are always hiring. So quit wasting my money and get job. Your only going to get somewhere in life if your willing to work for it. The majority of the 1% are where they are because they set goals and worked hard to achieve them.
Good for you! Taking a lil time for yourselves is just as important! Joan Baez! WOW & AMAZING!
happy draft-dodgers day. wake up and celebrate real resistance.
Soldiers die, corporations profit. The government acts as the middleman to protect the corporations from the law of the land. OWS is what the soldiers died for, not the other two.
I feel bad for the small businesses and people that may be negatively affected by the Occupy Wall Street encampment at Liberty Square Park. I know that OWS has addressed their concerns and is trying to be a good neighbor. In the end though, any inconvenience must be viewed as collateral damage for a greater cause, cleaning up our rotten political and financial systems. And remember it is no where near as horrific as the collateral damage suffered by the Iraqi citizens for an ignoble cause, perpetuating our empire.
don't have time to read your posting rules as there should not be any at this point on this subject ... so if you can post my comment good and fine and if not I will post on a more friendly site .. thank you .. here we are in another time gap with controls of what people think ... Not allowed !!! I have tried to post a decent human reply 3 times now and all have been rejected with this stupid "Read the Rules" Idiot thing that Banks and Finacial services such as Payplal use ,,,,,.. what a bunch of .......^&**(...
To Toynbee Yes and I agree but seems that this site is the worng place to be as they keep blocking our comments and insights ...wow the corporates have so much control insn't it ... even on small guys like this
To Toynbee Yes and I agree but seems that this site is the worng place to be as they keep blocking our comments and insights ...wow the corporates have so much control insn't it ... even on small guys like this
To Toynbee Yes and I agree but seems that this site is the worng place to be as they keep blocking our comments and insights ...wow the corporates have so much control insn't it ... even on small guys like this
To Toynbee Yes and I agree but seems that this site is the worng place to be as they keep blocking our comments and insights ...wow the corporates have so much control insn't it ... even on small guys like this
To Toynbee Yes and I agree but seems that this site is the worng place to be as they keep blocking our comments and insights ...wow the corporates have so much control insn't it ... even on small guys like this
To Toynbee Yes and I agree but seems that this site is the worng place to be as they keep blocking our comments and insights ...wow the corporates have so much control insn't it ... even on small guys like this
To Toynbee Yes and I agree but seems that this site is the worng place to be as they keep blocking our comments and insights ...wow the corporates have so much control insn't it ... even on small guys like this
Why has the international media coverage been reduced to nothing on this ?? I live in Thailand but am a Canadian and see nothing for the past 2-3 weeks on this issue which is super important to me ... Yes, I know the floods here are superceeding but,... nevertheless I feel the medias like BBC as well as CNN are being paid off to minimize the coverage ... man! these f....!!!&^%$ are obviously scared to death and barring it as much as they can ... HOW DO WE STOP THEM FROM HIDDING ????
Why has the international media coverage been reduced to nothing on this ?? I live in Thailand but am a Canadian and see nothing for the past 2-3 weeks on this issue which is super important to me ... Yes, I know the floods here are superceeding but,... nevertheless I feel the medias like BBC as well as CNN are being paid off to minimize the coverage ... man! these f....!!!&^%$ are obviously scared to death and barring it as much as they can ... HOW DO WE STOP THEM FROM HIDDING ????
It takes a lot of IQ and EQ to make OWS a success , I think OWS should think of What to do next in a more strategic way in revealing crimes committed by corporations and the politicians supporting them . Identifying and exposing the legal corporate loan sharks that make billions effortlessly , and appealing to human rights organizations and international bodies and have a candidate for president and local governmental institutions . In all OSW and its global partners must have a voice in any decision making body whether big or small.
I wish I could have been there! What a privilege to have heard from Sargeant Thomas and Joan Baez, and all of the other great supporters of OWS. All of u make me so proud to be one of u and all the rest of the 99%. I've lived a long time, and I'd almost given up hope of any significant push back from my fellow Americans. I'm so happy I've lived to see it happen! Whatever is left of my life is what I'm committing the cause.
i went. it wasn't too busy., but there were bodies... lots of 50+. cool.
Veterans from Iraq Veterans Against The War and Veterans For Peace Please give a listen, 'Occupy Oakland Veterans Day Assembly (part 1)' http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXViqqB4bB4 part 2 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXcci1syhw8 Thank you Veterans!
from toynbee, as a veteran, to [+] Howard - 4 points 1day ago: could someone, please explain to me what this has to do with honor, duty, country, on veterens day? (posted: 11/11/11; 1949 pst.)
U mustnt keep the old distinctions of left and right any longer. We re all in this together 99%. Knowing its a coke & pepsi ballot with 1%r fingerpuppets being elected again likely its time we changed the game and its players. Not someday but 1st chance.
Thank you to the veterans for your service to our country. Your sacrifice and the sacrifices of your families are greatly appreciated. You inspire the best in all of us. Campaign finance reform is at the heart of true change. When the politicians are no longer beholden to special interests we will once again have government by and for the people. OWS can keep pressure on the representatives to effectuate this change. In the meantime, write-in candidates should be favored over established political parties. Their first task will be to pass comprehensive legislation limiting campaign contributions. OWS protesters can identify and vet qualified members of their community to accomplish this goal. The voice of OWS is being heard around the world. Let it now be heard on the doorsteps of American families hoping for change.
Campaign finance reform is at the heart of true change. When the representatives of the people are no longer beholden to special interests for campaign finance the true voice of the 99% will be heard. Keep the pressure on our representatives to effectuate this change. Qualified write-in candidates should be favored over any established political parties. Their first task should be to give the government back to the people. Protesters can peacefully find and vet qualified members of their community and provide them with grassroots support. The voice of OWS is being heard around the world. Let it now be heard on the doorsteps of American citizens hoping for change.
I took photos, if you want to see them, you can go to Occupy Westchester on facebook and click like.
thanks
on this day 11/11/11
when evaluating (judgeing), try (endeavor), to think, (remember) without the hierarchy: of worse, bad, good, better, best.
this is a cognitive conundrum: democracy and equality are relative concepts, determined by struggle.
empathy defines 'the self' ambivalence and resentment defines 'the other' aka ('i don't care' and i have ill-will that i should).
lest, we become our own worst enemy.
Wish I could be there but unfortunately I live in Ol' Blighty.
i AM NOT the 99% you speak for...and i am NOT rich...i am a 25 year old who works EVERYDAY for the median income...HOWEVER.. i CHOSE THIS LIFE...if you hate corporations so much, quit using your Iphone, quit using your Colgate when you brush your teeth, and QUIT speaking for EVERYONE
i AM NOT the 99% you speak for...and i am NOT rich...i am a 25 year old who works EVERYDAY for the median income...HOWEVER.. i CHOSE THIS LIFE...if you hate corporations so much, quit using your Iphone, quit using your Colgate when you brush your teeth, and QUIT speaking for EVERYONE
I took the survey last night and it was humorous to be asked if I support OWS. I agreed, but then again, I had to take a step back and reflect, since OWS has not chosen to be about any one thing, but has implied its support for changing many things that have become gravely compromised about the Democratic Republic of the United States.
America is broken
do you consider yourself part of the 99%? http://littlebiggy.org/4660547
stop idolizing vets and babykillers. freedom to our muslim brothers. change is here. Allah is great
stop idolizing vets and babykillers. freedom to our muslim brothers. change is here. Allah is great
I cannot imagine a more depressing time than right now to be a veteran of American armed forces. The fed presumes us inherently violent so the fed earmarks additional domestic violence finding to prosecute us. We cannot buy a home with a VA home loan and we are virtually prohibited from regaining federal employment. The fed has even funded special courts to deal with us specially and the possibilities for an even bleaker future have never been greater than now.
We re free to work autonomously too. Toss yer hat into the fray each election. Stay unaffiliated to any partisan part of the system. Speak truth to power. You know 99% welcome alternatives to the current scheme. Run!
http://www.communitycurrency.org/BushCrimeFamily.html
Four Generations of Wall Street War-Making and War-Profiteering
http://getoffwallstreet.com/2011/10/07/topless-protesters-prove-occupy-wall-street-not-all-bad/
More wall street crime here -
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/14/business/global/14debt.html?pagewanted=all
Check this -
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/14/business/global/14debt.html?pagewanted=all
I respectively disagree. A peaceful movement cannot push back a little but not at all. It simply stands to reason.
Michael Moore on occupy -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gaXBWpN7ii8&feature=related
As we approach earths 6th extinction - mankinds - america spends 1.5 trillion annually on war industry. Weve become ourselves what our enemies behaved like. Lets take our country back.
HAPPY VETERANS DAY! To all my vets out there who protect and fight for our freedom we love you! On another note, I heard my OWS friends in NYC are having a hard to meeting a consensus on how to address the issues. Why not have a vote? Follow the true democratic process, have an assembly, hear the options and then vote on the options, ballot and all. You follow a two-thirds majority rule.
This is how the 1% treats our 1%: http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/bestoftv/2011/11/11/pkg-savidge-veteran-fraud-suit.cnn
Well the death penalty itself is a contentious issue not even an option in the most progressive jurisdictions anymore.
http://townhall.com/pulse/results/should-we-take-occupy-wall-street-seriously
Townhall.com wants to know what YOU think about the Occupy protests. Set the record straight with the conservatives...and just put any old e-mail address you make up in there where they ask for it.
Joan Baez is still alive?
Yes she is. I wish Phil Ochs was still here with us to witness and contribute to OWS.
Now is the time for the Occupy Wall Street Movement to begin to spin off practical politically potent 100% legal and overt actions and organizations that can existentially transform real world politics and policy.
That means taking the risks associated with becoming legally structured organzations with all of the asociated paperwork and human hassles/risks of enabling people to assume positons of leadership and authority.
Having said that, I also believe that the original model needs to continue as a informal association of pockets of people massing to raise consciousness and consience-ness.......that is truly the foundation of OWS....but foundations need to be built upon to realize their purpose.
OWS can get itself together and choose to grow, evolve and transform into the basis for the kinds of transformations that are required if we humans are to be able to survive into the long term future.
Obviously, OWS is just a name....a set of initials; but as I see it, it's a harbinger for the next stage of human consciousness. This has been called for and predicted for many many years. It's nothing new.
We are at a stage where people must find ways to become more aware of the whole..of the reality that we are all connected and, in some very real sense, are all one! That doesn't mean that we lose our idividuality.....quite the contrary, it is in recognizing and understanding and accepting our unity that it becomes possible to manifest our genuinely unique identities!
Thank you veterans, I salute you!
http://getoffwallstreet.com/2011/10/07/topless-protesters-prove-occupy-wall-street-not-all-bad/
Today everybody's crazy about these numbers ;) Here's what I've found: http://drm-removal.com/todays-huge-discount-11-11-11.html Today you can purchase a drm converter for just $11.11 Sounds nice )
Anti Police State Rock Band Scott X and the Constitution Commandos
Music videos at: http://www.youtube.com/user/scottxmysteryband
No Spinal Tap?
The forgotten 1%: Our troops in Afghanistan
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/us-soldiers-at-war-the-forgotten-1-percent/2011/11/10/gIQAzn7s9M_story.html?hpid=z5
what piece of advice would you give to the Occupy protesters tomorrow? http://littlebiggy.org/4660547
'Not a solution' Mayor Jean Quan has drawn withering criticism for her handling of previous attempts to shut down the encampment.
"Tonight's incident underscores the reason why the encampment must end. The risks are too great," Quan said. "We need to return (police) resources to addressing violence throughout the city. It's time for the encampment to end. Camping is a tactic, not a solution."
fight like hell for justice for our ancestors! we are reincarnating spirits. our ancestors are us too, deeply in our hearts. this fascist tyranny has murdered us in FAKE wars for thousands of years. prescott bush started WW2. gw bush started the war on terror. but we know we are they are the ENEMY. male-only fascist hierarchies control our country. freemasons are a fascist male-only fascist hierarchy that controls the banks and the legal system and main street. they send our boys to war to make money and maintain their tyranny. christian churches are controlled by a male-only fascist hierarchy who preach an anti-muslim war, who tell our boys to kill muslims. both christians and freemasons control the police to wage a war on cannabis plants with BS propaganda. cannabis is the holy tree of life. cannabis is our holy communion. know the enemy and eject them from our DEMOCRATIC COMMUNITY.
Wonderful show of support, I'm sure it will be inspirational. Thank you all!
Since OWS is all about solutions, I wanted everyone to know 'THRIVE' is premiering online tomorrow (11.11.11) - Looks like a lot of folks will be busy but maybe you can catch it later.
The timing of THRIVE is excellent and fits with the title 'fighting like hell for the living'... so we can thrive. OWS has changed the conversation to REAL solutions.. and they do exist in us. Of course I haven't seen it but we are fighting like hell to reclaim our future. I think everyone will enjoy,
Here is the synopsis: "THRIVE is an unconventional documentary that lifts the veil on what's REALLY going on in our world by following the money upstream -- uncovering the global consolidation of power in nearly every aspect of our lives. Weaving together breakthroughs in science, consciousness and activism, THRIVE offers real solutions, empowering us with unprecedented and bold strategies for reclaiming our lives and our future."
HAVE A GREAT RALLY, Solidarity from FL, Peace
THRIVE premier here: http://thrivemovement.com/
Maybe we should look to our past to help us fix our future. In the 1800 & early 1900 we were the ones that work in the sweat shops. There was no middle class or any workers right. We are alot smarter now so hopefully we can get back the middle class without going to war.
The Oakland protester has died after the gunfight at Occupy Oakland. If any of you suffer under the illusion that Michael Moore is just one of the poor folk here is a link for you. http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/abreitbart/2011/11/10/exclusive-photos-michael-moores-massive-michigan-vacation-mansion-beyond-99-percents-wildest-dreams/
Not a war against the rich. Why don't you people get this?
Its not? Are you sure about that? Define the 1% for us and make it clear who that is.
It's a war against the rich and corporations who are buying our politicians not everyone in the 1%...
The 1% refers to the growing income inequality that is a result from increased tax burden and unemployment on the middle class while the rich get tax breaks due to bribing er lobbying.
The middle class is offered the same tax breaks that the rich get. The question is whether or not one qualifies for the credits and deductions. How do you think that 47% of working Americans pay no income taxes (get a refund equal to or greater than what was actually withheld from their paycheck)? They qualify and take those credits and deductions.
What IS unfair are the hidden taxes and fees that the middle class pays - like the 143% excise tax on the American Staple peanut butter and all the other products we buy on a regular basis. The 22 - 31% we pay on our cell phone bills, our land line bills, our electric bills, our cable or satellite bills and all of our insurance policies - you know like vehicle and home owners as well as health and so on.
The mods & i can fraternize.
Also a New York protester fractured an EMT's leg last night! I think EMT's are only there to help people and are definitely part of the 99%.
Did you see a protester in Vermont was shot and killed today- and just a bit ago there was a shooting in Oakland and a news reporter for a major station was attacked.
Howard, Your comments on this page focus on the negative. Unfortunately bad things happen to good people every day but a lot of good is happening because of OWS and great things will come. A People's movement that is working hard to improve the future for us all is a good thing.
A criminal is obviously NOT at an OCCUPY protest/camp for the same reasons as the rest of OWS protesters. Crime has been on the rise in my area (and all over) but it is because of the economy and that certainly can't be blamed on Occupy (not helped by a federal Justice Dept that now allows the banks to police themselves). People get sick and the stress of trying to survive in these times does not help. It is common knowledge that lack of health insurance means treatment is delayed so of course outbreaks of communicable disease will rise.
The police own the violence regarding OCCUPY. Whether we're taking about cops beating up students at Berkeley today, the shooting of a cameraman Scott Campbell, or the two Iraq war veterans serious injured by police, Scott Olsen and then Kayvan Sabehgi... there's too much of it against the People. Those 'peace officers' that broke the law are not exactly setting an example but the protesters still REMAIN PEACEFUL.
The 1% war on People is pretty obvious when the Justice Dept allows financial companies to avoid indictments if they agree to investigate and report their own crimes but a pregnant mom and her husband are arrested and CPS takes their kid over a $5 error. The mom and dad immediately tried to correct the $5 error but the greedy folks on Wall St that caused a lot of damage have not, they have their hands out for more.
UPDATE - Police say the people involved in the shooting were NOT part of Occupy Oakland.
Gangster violence UNRELATED to #OWS but that doesn't matter to Quan because she just wants to end OCCUPY Oakland. By that rationale, I think she should tell Obama to end all wars and military-occupations since many people die, and those deaths are directly related to the wars and THAT is unacceptable!
Police say neither the shooter, nor the victim, were part of Occupy Oakland." Mayor Quan said "Whether this incident is related to the encampment, or is an unrelated act, it is unacceptable...the reason why the encampment must end."
http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news/local/east_bay&id=8427634
'Not a solution' Mayor Jean Quan has drawn withering criticism for her handling of previous attempts to shut down the encampment.
"Tonight's incident underscores the reason why the encampment must end. The risks are too great," Quan said. "We need to return (police) resources to addressing violence throughout the city. It's time for the encampment to end. Camping is a tactic, not a solution."
Go to liveleak.com and watch your peacfull protesters, plenty of videos to watch.
Ugly #OccupySanDiego Protester Attacks Woman With Camera
Ah, more violence from the "Protest of Peace"...
The #Occupy movement appears to be taking lessons from the "Religion of Peace" - attack anyone who you think may disagree. These people (and I use that term loosely) have no respect for anyone else, or for the rights of others. They are selfish, greedy thugs who think the world owes them something and they shouldn't have to earn it.
Boy you nail that one...The trash needs to be taken out
That will be fabulous. Invite your neighbors along bring city hall over. May as well try warmin up the relationship with the public so host the community that hosts ows
I salute our nation's veterans. I am certain that none served for the severe fooling of the people. I say: Condemn venal journalism for severely fooling the people. http://occupywallst.org/forum/condemn-venal-journalism-for-severely-fooling-the-/
will the #OWS tv ads strengthen public opinion for the movement? http://littlebiggy.org/4660547
so if the concert is at folly square, is the event at central park not happening?
What does a concert achieve? Instead it needlessly distracts attention away from the far more important fact that firms like RBC Capital Markets and Bank of America that claim they support the hiring of veterans really do not. It would be far better and more supportive of veterans issues for large groups of folks participating in the OWS movement to march, gather together, and protest in front of the primary office buildings of firms that falsely claim to support the hiring of veterans and the news media organizations that refuse to cover this issue.
No need for either/or. Concerts are ways to attract more people, and lighten the mood a bit. That doesn't mean your suggestion about protesting firms that don't hire veterans as promised. (Great idea, by the way!) The movement can do BOTH: It can gain support and a boost in morale from a concert AND expand the protests as you suggest.
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When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation. We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. --That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. July 4, 1776.
Yeah, well just go off in a boat to an island or different land (ohhh, you forgot we did that?) and go have yourself your retarded government...and have a nice time. Oh, and take your friend with you. Don;t worry bout us..we'll be fine.
How exactly does this comment relate to the Declaration of Independence?
don't respond to crazy people.
I thought that honouring the dead was 'Memorial Day'! get your holidays straight! In this country, tomorrow is to honour those who have fought, not just died.
"Honor the Dead, Fight Like Hell For the Living"
I'm thinking that's what the title means.
But honoring the dead has nothing to do with Veteran's Day! You might want to change who you are honoring on this day. The vets are still alive!
This day, November 11, was set aside around most of the western world to recognize 'Armsitice Day', signed to reflect the cease fire in WWI, to occur Novemebr 11, 1918 at 11:00 am. It is also recognized as 'Remembrance Day'.
Honoring the dead is always good, but this day is not what this is about. Get your facts straight!
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If the movement is honest with itself the real title of this event should be "Anti-War Day Concert". My guess is my dad and brother, who are both verterans, would not be apart of this event.
Nothing wrong with war. What about WW2? Or were you a big fan of Fasicts? Hitler ring a bell? take your thumb out of your girlfriends ass and go home and think that one over.
fuck off
Berkeley http://youtu.be/buovLQ9qyWQ
The pioneers of a warless world are the youth that refuse military service# Albert Einstein
http://m.youtube.com/index?desktop_uri=%2F&gl=US#/watch?v=sq6RoIdjEuA
''I got a big dick and its hard like stone'' Big Daddy Kane
Why can't this sites Moderators post upcoming events more in advance? Everytime I find out about an event through this site, it's always like the day of or the day before. If I had known about this event taking place at Foley Square sooner I'd have time to plan my other stuff around it, but because of this I won't be able to make it. Wish I could be there to show my support..
HOLD ON ! the worst is to come...look a bit what hapened to us :
http://youtu.be/rH6_i8zuffs
How is the concert and rally go? I can't find anything about it. Any videos?
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqdaOwOsFzQ
Tell me just what he said.....
Banned again (6th time) But I am back...:)
We missed u
Here are some links for why we the people are standing up!
www.activistpost.com/2011/11/world-war-3-foregone-conclusion-video.html
Read Zen Gardner's article after watching the above video live link under video.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=aB99Ih3pvnQ
www.activistpost.com/2010/08/10-signs-us-is-becoming-third-world.html
One more of you caught on tape.
Watch it at liveleak.com " Occupiers Exposed: What They REALLY Think About The Military...FCK THE MILITARY FCK YOUR FLAG!
Scum Baggers Exposed.
'Not a solution' Mayor Jean Quan has drawn withering criticism for her handling of previous attempts to shut down the encampment.
"Tonight's incident underscores the reason why the encampment must end. The risks are too great," Quan said. "We need to return (police) resources to addressing violence throughout the city. It's time for the encampment to end. Camping is a tactic, not a solution."
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Make the handles for your signs out of bamboo. It is strong, cheap and flexible. It also hurts when someone smacks you with it. It can be sharpened on both ends and driven into the ground. This makes a nice palisade wall (or barricade for those of you not up on siege warfare). If you see another person being attacked a 5' - 6' long piece of bamboo is a good blocker for a baton if used for only defense. If sharpened it can keep cops at a distance. The main advantage is it is cheap and good for holding signs.
I also advocate use of butyric acid. It is cheap, non toxic, and easy to make. Peel and slice a potato, put it in a mason jar with water and a layer of olive oil on top. Leave it for a month. You get some shit that would make a skunk cry.
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Awesome! There is also a Money Bomb for Ron Lawl (who receives more donations from active military personal than all the other candidates combined...including Obama).
http://supportthemnow.com/
Somebody needs to vet this guy Thomas. To be sure he is an Ex Marine and actually was in Iraq. Fox news will have a field day if he is not Legit.
Sergeant Shamar Thomas served with the 3rd Light Armored Reconnaissance Battalion USMC in Iraq.
How do you know that? There is an awful lot of Warrior Wannabes out there including members of congress. I don't want to see this movement fail.
I googled it. There are more definitive ways of finding out, like calling Marine HQ. I don't have time for that. However, if this is such a concern for you, perhaps you should do so yourself.
I applaud your desire to keep this movement safe. But i wouldn't worry about this issue. He came into public view about as spontaneously as possible. The right-wing media has already been working overtime to discredit OWS; I'm sure this was something they already looked into. If they had found something, anything, it would have been all over the news by now.
THere are many others in this movement who claim to be veterans. Why are you only concerned about this one? (I am not seeking an answer, only suggesting you look at your motivations and process - there might be an issue about yourself that you don't see. I'm not saying there is one, but looking never hurts.)
What I consider Real Heroes and Combat Vets don't go around wearing half a uniform and bragging about it. I was in Vietnam at an air base never in combat. Only 10 % of people in a Combat Zone do the real fighting (Infantrymen & Pilots) the rest are Clerks and Mechanics who don't do the fighting . You seem like a thoughtful person and your right I am Now Anti Military. I have the highest regard for Combat Vets.
First, Jeff, let me offer you my deepest gratitude for your service. It doesn't matter that you didn't do the fighting: the fact that you were there is honorable, even if the war itself, like the one today in Iraq, was based on a lie.
I myself, as you may have guessed, am not anti-military. I am anti-unnecessary war blithely entered into by politicians, without regard to American, let alone foreign lives. Ironic that these politicians on the right tend to be Chicken Hawks, having done everything in their power to avoid going to war when they themselves were called.
Regarding combat Vets going around in half uniforms, I have seen it often during the very war you served in. (Seems like neither of us are spring chickens!) Especially during anti-war protests of the time. Some had been in forward units in the thick of it, others weren't. But I remember that those who had been in the tfighting, who had seen the horror, were the strongest advocates for peace and getting the rest of our boys back home. Some of them protested in full dress uniform, Others intentionally wore partial uniforms in the most haphazard manner possible; they were making a statement of contempt.
I don't know what this Sergeant's role was in Iraq. Frankly, I don't care. He volunteered and he was there in some capacity, serving what he was fooled into believing was a necessary war to keep the rest of us safe. And he resents the lies that put him in danger and caused the deaths of comrades. I, for one, am proud of him, both for serving and for speaking up now. Both acts, in my opinion, are acts of protection. While he was duped into believing he was protecting all of us back home by deploying in Iraq before, he is now acting to protect democracy itself.
He has my respect.
Why don't you do it if you think he's lying?
Jeez you are annoying
if he was here...especially if he is a marine. hes a plant. No selfrespecting marine would roll over on his country like the occu-tards
Great initiative
"Rich Man´s War" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUQ50W7E-gc
solidarity and greetings from Norway. http://struggleforfreedom.blogg.no/
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Hey good luck with the drug resistant tuberculosis that is ravaging the Atlanta protesters. You won't have much luck hooking up in a tent when you are coughing up blood.
Ur gross on every level.
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Vice President Biden is going to be at the WTC site tomorrow
LOL, Michael Moore, part of the 1% pretending to be part of the 99%.
Hey Michael, give up your millions of dollars and properties and put your mouth where your money is.
Oh, your mouth is just embraced on the nearest Philly and Cheese. :P
LOL, Michael Moore, part of the 1% pretending to be part of the 99%.
Hey Michael, give up your millions of dollars and properties and put your mouth where your money is.
Oh, your mouth is just embraced on the nearest Philly and Cheese. :P
Somehow I find it hard to believe that leftists give a damn about our troops. In fact I always imagined that they laugh uproariously when hearing of our men killed in combat.
Leftist radical conservationist Marine veteran would like to help you open your mind. Your mind is like a parachute, which if it doesn't open, is worse than useless. In America, you are free to think for yourself, and believe what you choose to believe - no one can force you to believe what they believe. We have Left, Center, and Right. They are all Americans, they all love America, and they all serve in the Armed forces. I don't mean everyone serves, I mean those who serve are all types. Not everyone on the right serves. If someone on the right makes huge profits from war, they are not serving the country, they are serving themselves. They may claim to be great patriots, and they may point to people they disagree with and call them bad names, but that dosn't change the fact they are war profiteers, and they care less about our troops than you imagine the left does.
The last president and vice president both dodged the Vietnam war. Yet they were very quick to invade Iraq, a country that they well knew posed no threat to the US. The result is thousands of our own young men and women dead or permanently wounded, and over a hundred thousand Iraqi civilians killed.
My politics tends to be on the left. I am deeply grateful that there are those who are willing to lay down their lives for my freedom. I have nothing but admiration for them. And that's PRECISELY WHY I oppose unnecessary war. I am opposed to wasting these brave people's blood for no good reason. Being on the left, I don't think that protecting the stability of oil based economies, ideology, the pursuit of global American hegemony, personal animus toward a foreign leader, or show of force for political reasons are good enough excuses to put our troops in harm's way. Chicken Hawks do.
I try to be a person of conscience. That's why I oppose unnecessary wars and that's why I am grateful to our military. It is also the reason I am on the left. Most people on the left would say the same thing.
But the right-wing powers have tried to sell a package of lies to get people to believe, falsely, that the left is anti military. We are not. We are anti wars based on lies. We are FOR keeping our young men and women safe, because we, unlike those on the right, care about them.
Perhaps, too, you could use reminding that Bush and Cheney, along with a disproportionate number of congressmen on the right, made many millions of dollars from this war. (Oil companies, Haliburton, etc.) While I don't believe for a second that it was in any the reason for going to war, at the very least it was a conflict of interest, and disgusting. Those few in power on the left who opposed the war while nevertheless being the recipients of energy industry money, are the ones who acted conscientiously, forgoing personal gain for the sake of the troop's safety.
You imagine wrong.
How?
You said: "I always imagined that they (leftists) laugh uproariously when hearing of our men killed in combat." I'm a "leftist," as are most of the people I know. No one I know laughs at the deaths our men and women killed in combat. Everyone I know is sad to hear of these deaths. Ergo, you imagined wrong.
I see. What would you leftists do with our military if you had the power?
MVSN could not be more wrong to think any 'leftie' would laugh to hear ANYONE was killed, ever, combat or otherwise. I don't like labels, but I have a lot of friends and most would be considered lefties, and we all despise war, none of us would laugh at anyone injured or killed, and that goes for either side of a conflict. -- In war, there are no unwounded soldiers. ~Jose Narosky --
It's the war-hungry leaders that I have a problem with. I blame them for every injury and death, not the soldiers. The warmongers LIE to us all and use the MIC for their own agenda and for oil, gold and if a pipeline runs through it.
If I had the power, I would use the military to defend and strengthen our nation... protect our border. That would ensure we stay safe as is the intention of military. Soldiers are not supposed to be used to guard poppy fields or pipelines. I would use diplomacy long before bombs, so I'd give the State Dept a decent budget (the Pentagon loses more each year than the State Dept gets). I'd appoint a very different Sec. of State than we now have [who said she would "obliterate" an entire nation if their government bombed Israel].
I would not bomb with drones that kill 10 civilians per militant. [stupid unless someone wanted endless war and more enemies].
War-profiteering is big business, so I guess I would displease the world's biggest arms dealers like Halliburton, Lockheed Martin, Boeing, Northrop Grumman, Raytheon, Bectel and Blackwater/Xe. I'd go so far as to say it is the top reason for the endless wars we have today so with my diplomacy and lack of motivation from warmongers, PEACE is what I would do with my power.
I would treat soldiers with the same respect I would my own children (not putting them in harms way unless absolutely necessary to defend MY nation from genuine threats so intelligence would not be wasted on MY OWN PEOPLE). And after their service, I would continue to honor and treat the People that sacrifice for us all with the respect they deserve. I would make certain no Veteran was hungry or homeless! Not ever!
Currently, the US spends 41% of the entire world's military budget so by using the military as intended, I would not need such a large Attack-budget. Besides drastically cutting the number of injuries and deaths, reducing tragic loss of life, I'd save the trillions of dollars and I would use it to do a lot of good... VA would have anything it needed.
A reality we could have if the oligarch's for War Inc were not calling the shots in DC. Peace to all
They would not want members of the armed forces deployed in long wars with fuzzy objectives, in harms way unless the homeland was under attack by a foreign army.
You have a perverse imagination, then. Being against the war in the first place would make someone doubly upset that deaths occur because of it.