Over 30,000 take Foley Square, Brooklyn Bridge.
Posted 13 years ago on Nov. 17, 2011, 4:41 p.m. EST by OccupyWallSt
At 3PM, thousands of students, workers, and other supporters gathered in Union Square chanting "Shut the city down!" and using the People's Mic to share stories of how banks and corporate greed have impacted the 99%. Simultaneously, Occupiers took to multiple subway stations in all five boroughs. The day of action culminated when the student strike, labor unions, and various OWS groups took over a number of streets in Lower Manhattan on their way to Foley Square before marching across the Brooklyn Bridge.
Students chanted "CUNY should be free!" and "Student Power!" as they took to the streets along 16th and 5th Avenue, shutting down traffic and leaving police powerless to respond. Police attempts to erect barricades along 5th Avenue failed to block the march, as banners reading "OCCUPIED" were seen along New School buildings.
Huge crowds marched down Broadway toward Foley Square to join another large contingent of labor unions and fellow Occupiers. Despite a massive police presence and helicopters circling overhead, protestors took Foley Square, as marchers converged and supporters poured from the subways. Over 30,000 joined as one, marching across the Brooklyn Bridge, and proving to the world that an idea whose time has come cannot be evicted. The 1% might steal our homes, but they cannot steal our truth.
Live Updates
- 8:40 pm: People's Assembly currently happening on Brooklyn side of the Brooklyn Bridge; several hundred others are returning to Liberty Square
- 8:23 pm: There is now a people's library, a marching band and a projector on the Brooklyn Bridge, according to @occupywallst people on the ground
- 8:05 pm: SEIU President Mary Kay Henry being arrested at the Brooklyn Bridge
- 8:00 pm: City councilor Jumaane Williams may have been arrested at the foot of Brooklyn Bridge
- 7:54 pm: General assembly held at 8 at the Korean War Memorial Park, just past Brooklyn Bridge.
- 7:52 pm: From @John Harkinson, thousands of people with music, signs, honks of support. Everything peaceful.
- 7:30 pm: The column marching on Brooklyn Bridge stretches about a mile long. From http://www.emergencystream.com/video_streams/NY/NYC3/a.html
- 7:22 pm: chant: "we are unstoppable, a new world is possible!"
- 7:15 pm: a massive banner reading "Occupy Wall Street" was dropped from the overhang of the pedestrian walkway on the Brooklyn Bridge in full view of traffic; hundreds of cars seen honking in support
- 7:09 pm: A Light Show on Brooklyn Bridge is projecting "99%", "Occupy Earth" "we are winning" and other slogans of support on the side of the Verizon Building. Followed by "Happy Birthday OccupywallstNYC" Reported by @occupywallst
- 7:06 pm: Police scanners estimate the crowd at 32,650 people. Reported by @jstetser
- 7:01 pm: Entrance of Brooklyn Bridge City Hall station closed.
- 7:00 pm: One source gives around 2,000 protesters on Brooklyn Bridge
- 6:44 pm: https://twitter.com/?photo_id=1#!/AnalectFilms/status/137290008620052481/photo/1 - Taking Canal St.
- 6:42 pm: http://twitpic.com/7fjlrc - On the Brooklyn Bridge.
- 6:35 pm: From TheOther99, reports of NYPD intimidating the press, told Tim Pool he would have his press card revoked if he was arrested.
- 6:30 pm: City Hall is locked down, from @JoshHarkinson
- 6:15 pm: 20,000 marching towards Brooklyn Bridge from Foley Square, chanting "Whose Bridge? Our Bridge!"
- 5:30 pm: #OWS shuts down Canal St.
- 5:25 pm: NYPD cavalry begins to be appear on Centre Street.
- 5:16 pm: 90 Fifth Avenue occupied by students from Pratt, Columbia, NYU, Hunter pic.twitter.com/lBNwUwpJ
- 5:07 pm: more police sirens heard headed toward Foley
- 5:00 pm: chant: "Bloomberg beware, Liberty Square is everywhere!"
- 4:57 pm: thousands more run south on 7th Ave, evading NYPD barricades to meet Union allies and thousands more who are continuing to mass at Foley Square
- 4:53 pm: Ydanis Rodriguez, NYC Council member who was arrested during raid on Liberty square, spotted at Foley
- 4:52 pm: marchers headed from west end of 14th after cut off by police barricades
- 4:47 pm: 5th ave has been shut down!
- 4:42 pm: thousands outmaneuver Billionaire Bloomberg's publicly funded private army at 14th and 5th ave and head West on 15th
- 4:40 pm: music and chants can be heard emanating from Foley Square
- 4:32 pm: as other marches continue heading down Broadway and from Liberty Square, 7th and 6th st are reported to have been taken by protesters
- 4:26 pm: Foley reported full of protestors, NYU students still on their way; other feeder marches (including from Liberty Square) also en route
- 4:26 pm: face off between marchers and a small number of police who are trying to prevent access onto 5th Ave
- 4:13 pm: headed toward Foley Square, thousands of students and friends stream out of Union Square and into the streets chanting, "Whose streets? Our streets!"
Excerpt from The Transition Phase: The Road To Freedom:
"We should also bear in mind that in any stage of this struggle for a free democratic society we have to expect lots of opposition from the elites and their supporters and servants. Not only do we have to expect and prepare ourselves for media-propaganda, we also have to expect more police brutality. Its a natural reaction of the finacial elite who will become more and more scared of the movement(s) as they grow. The state and government are often very servile to the wealthy finacial elite, especially in the US where the wealthy more or less control policies. The police is a tool of the business-run, or business-influenced state to try to crush the ones who want to take back from the wealthy what has been stolen thru bailouts, exploitation and speculation at the stock exchange. The elites are starting to feel threatened, they want to keep all that they have stolen, so naturally they want to stop The Occupy Movement and anyone else involved in the struggle with police force. These tendencies are however an indcation that we´re on the right track: The elites are getting scared, and react by increasing their effort in trying to crush movements. The finacial elite will however fail. Police brutality is counter-productive, it just leads to more support and sympathy for people engaged in the struggle among the general population."
Wish I could be there with you guys!
"What you should do is exactly the kinds of things that are going to lead to hysteria among privileged and powerful people" - Noam Chomsky
Keep it up. Greetings and solidarity from Norway struggleforfreedom
Keep Up the Good Work. Keep Changing and Improvising, it Confuses the Status Quo. Fair-ness.
So we get arrested when we walk on the the road. And I bet we'd get arrested for driving on the sidewalk.
But we can cycle or drive on the road, at least in circles, can't we? Why not protest while driving? Drive in circles honking.
Apparently horses can walk on the streets:
5:25 pm: NYPD cavalry begins to be appear on Centre Street.
You people are animals. These people are animals. No one is intimidated except these poor kids. http://wcbs.m0bl.net/r/rowlz
You nation is mocking you, you filthy cowards.
CBS has been lying all day about these protests. Get some real news and you won't sound so ignorant.
Really??? Walking out of my office (on wall st) I have witnessed what CBS reports to be exactly true. YOU PEOPLE ARE ANIMALS. Thank god they kicked you out of that park- Even the Central Park Zoo smells better and there are actual animals living there. #teamNYPD
@the1percenters "Animal \An"i*mal\, n. [L., fr. anima breath, soul: cf. F. animal. See Animate.]
You must be inanimate?
your an animal.. [=
Cool story bro.
If you are who you say you are then you are the unwashed. Never forget, arrogance breeds stupidity.
LOL...as long as you're pissed off, we're happy!
You live in Norway. We thought things were good for socialism over there. If things are so good, why are you up in a frenzy?
Solidarity and concern for other human beings (you know, basic human feelings that are part of our nature)
second, I want libertarian socialism - which is not the same as social democracy (as we have in Norway)
Libertarian Socialism is plain socialism and socialism does not work. It does not work because people don't work that way. The ideal system recognizes "enlightened self-interest" and treats people as intelligent adults, responsible for their own successes and failures, which is not to suggest cold-blooded disregard of others... People need to care for people, because government does such a lousy job of it.
Libertarian Socialism will work just fine. Libertarian Socialism is about people being in control of their own lives work and destiny. Democratic communities and workplaces is The Society We Should Strive For
It doesn't work in Norway, and it can't work in the US (or anywhere else).
Thats exactly what the supporters of feudalism said when people started demanding democracy. "Democracy has never existed, itll never work" Look what jhappened
That's right democracy doesn't work, that's why the US became a democratic republic. Not at all the same thing. The problem with any system is this: People are self-interested and people are smart, so no matter what 'restrictions' (laws) you create to control them they will always do what benefits them most regardless of the consequences. This also applies in a theoretical anarchic system, where the natural tendency is to coalesce around power for survival.
Auditelmer - Yeah, God Forbid like minded people in other countries log on to the OWS website and offer support. Dude, this is a global movement that has grown beyond American shores. No one anywhere in the world should be told to "butt out"
StruggleForFreedom - I live in NY and was one of the thousands who marched the BK bridge. I for one certainly appreciate your support. Thanks man, you rule. Keep spreading the word about OWS in Norway. Sorry that some people in my country are dicks.
Apparently we need more dicks, according to your definition.
Just as I detest the US (my country) sticking it's nose into the affairs of every nation on Earth, It irks me that a Norwegian cheerleader can't get a life and butt out.
Well said
For those who think this movement is over, think again. You only wish it was over, We're just getting started, You ain't seen nothin' yet
--------------------------We are the 99%---------------------------------------
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Please visit the site : www.theindignados.org
Are you one of us ?
This site is run by the same coward socialist scum that are plaguing the parks of my city ... You want America? Ironic that you delete my posts where I am voicing my opinion against your tirades. I am practicing freedom of speech and have the same right to do so as you morons.
If your comments have been deleted, it may have something to do with the use of words like "filthy" and "animals" and "scum". You are using inappropriate language and making personal attacks. If you have something constructive to add, please make a comment. If you are only here to call people names and be abusive, what is the point?
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any time 1 %, one on one. without ur hire hands (and bombs) 1% vs 99% - u lose.
what %v taxes are you paying scumbag ??
quit your job, fly to NY, and put your hand out...you can do it!
Doesn't it get boring slinging insults and filth for days on end? I just can't even begin to imagine what kind of person would make so many negative comments on every single topic. I mean wouldn't a normal person have gotten bored by now?
They are paid Koch instigators. Their job is to get on forums and play the devil. Either that or they're psychopaths that just escaped from from a mental prison.
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Right, that is what this is about, mr. self proclaimed capitalist. What do you sell?
i'm not selling anything. i support a country founded on capitalism, have over 40 years of working my ass off, and have 20 years of fighting for my country's freedom under my belt. BTW - it is spelled Mr. Self-Proclaimed Capitalist.
I'm calling BS. The USA had one of the most protectionist policies of any nation when it started. Even the Boston Tea party was about the East India Tea Company getting to sell to the colonies tariff free.
Anyone who claims to have over 40 years of working experience and such dedication to the founding principles of his country wouldn't be so ignorant. I think you're making up a fake persona and you are a corporate plant put here to distract and demoralize.
The Founding Principles were a lie tho man that is what we need to realize, from the get go. The wealthy established this nation and framed the constitution in order to be free from british taxation in order to make more money, they cared little about our rights and freedom and justice, but they needed to curry favor among the middle class so they used the unifying lingo of liberty, and they bought it, wouldn't you have. they needed people to fight a their war so that is what they did, they didn't really want the lower people to have any power that is why originally you were not allowed to vote unless you owned land, they didn't care, they needed cannon fodder that is that. The wealthy didn't want to rid the country of aristocracy, but they did want more, more than britan would allow them to have.....there is so much more......
Personally I think you are exactly right.
But damnit, I want life, liberty, and justice. Even if there was no constitution or declaration of independence, I'd still fight for it.
The country may have been made up of a lot of flawed people, but the ideals born during the enlightenment are good, they're worth it. I know we can do better, because this country was in a lot better position in the 1970's. I don't think it's unreasonable to pursue a life with as many opportunities as our parent's generation.
oh most definitely sir it is worth it, we just need to not make the same mistake twice, i do not want concessions so that things go on as they are, i want direct democracy, where every voice truly does count, a system of government where the people rule themselves and money means nothing in the political machine, no amount of money should change a vote or your principles. we should just do away with money its fools gold it holds no true value.
Is it so hard to believe that are people out there that do not agree with you that are not a "corporate plant" ?
There is a difference between disagreeing and shouting "YOU PROTESTERS ARE ALL ANIMALS AND SHOULD ALL DIE" over and over again. Either these people are corporate plants, or they are complete fucking psychopaths, as was stated above. Personally, it is better for my conscience to believe they are corporate plants, but unfortunately I must recognize that such disgusting people do exist outside of this circumstance as well.
Look carefully at what he's saying. He's claiming 40 years of experience and protecting a country "founded on capitalism". How can a person for 40 years not read the Declaration of Independence, or the Constitution, or a history book to check what he is saying.
I'm not saying he's a plant because he disagrees, I'm saying he's a plant based on the duration and constant negativity of his comments, and the complete mismatch between his stated persona and his factual understanding.
Just look at his comment above, "quit your job, fly to NY, and put your hand out... you can do it!" He's not making any arguments at all, he's just trying to rile people up.
It seems to be a running charge that people who have any criticism of this movement is automatically labeled a "paid plant". It has happened to me. And whether this person is padding his resume so to speak is neither here no there. He obviously doesn't like this movement.
And as far as our Constitution..... Everyone's interpretation of it is different.... if it was so cut and dry we wouldn't need a Supreme Court to settle the constitutionality of things would we?
The reason there are concerns about paid plants is because there are paid plants. Take the example of American Majority.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGB8Uuffi4M
Ever since Citizens United v. FEC, now we don't even get to know who funds these groups because now corporations don't have to disclose their political spending.
The Constitution is only a couple of pages long. Capitalism isn't there at all. This isn't really rocket-science. Your interpretation may be that it is there, but your interpretation would have absolutely no relation to the document.
That video is your reason to believe in paid plants??? C'mon it appeared over half the seats in the room were empty! Now I don't doubt that some people come here just to disrupt, but paid to do it?? You place more importance on this movement then it deserves.
I never said the word "Capitalism," could be found in the Constitution.... but there a lot of words that aren't in the Constitution that people have based beliefs on... like "separation of Church and State". Yet that belief has furthererd a lot of Court decisions hasn't it?
Seriously, you think they would tear gas old ladies, shut down the subway, pay millions in bribes to the police force, arrest and send hundreds to jail, and bloody people, but you don't think they would have people write messages on forums? Yes, those forum messages are obviously too extreme.
They should probably do something less extreme like bribing the police force with $4.6 million dollars. http://www.jpmorganchase.com/corporate/Home/article/ny-13.htm
They're still around, and that video was shot years ago. They've only grown. Propaganda doesn't work if people KNOW they're being propagandized. If fact it is the most effective when people believe it is coming from a neutral source. Welcome to America post Citizens Untied v. FEC.
Capitalist777 was arguing that the nation was founded on capitalism. Not only is this not to be found in the constitution in any form, but the country had tight regulation and protectionist policies from the very beginning.
His interpretation is far too ignorant to have come from a person with 40 years experience. His persona is an obvious lie. The only question remaining is if he's being paid. He's been at this for days on end, so there has to be a motive.
Either he's extremely ignorant and filled with hate, or he's being paid.
Look I am no fan of Citizens United..... I don't believe a Corporation should be involved in our elections at all. However, to believe that a corporation is going to pay someone to behave like an idiot is putting far to much importance on this movement.
When someone can prove to me that there are people being paid to make posts on a OWS forum then we can talk.... Until then it just sounds like paranoia to me.
Well you have a long wait ahead of you. Citizens United v. FEC removed all reporting requirements, so unless they openly admit it, we'll never know.
We do know they've done it for general marketing, to disrupt other groups (especially anti-war groups), they do it in other countries, and they openly admit to desiring to do it through front groups like American Majority. We know it is extremely cost effective is preventing organization and proper dialog, it hurts the growth of these kinds of movements.
We also know that groups like CitiBank have been reveling in the growing wealth disparity, and watching the political process unfold since at least 2005.
http://www.box.net/shared/9if6v2hr9h
"One of the key forces helping plutonomist over the last 20 years has been the rise in the profit share - the flip side of the fall of the wage share in GDP. ... The political process is the greatest threat to plutonomy. We don't see it as a threat today in most countries. But we are alert to change here."
But they would never do anything bad of course. I mean, they're in suits! Who would do anything bad who wears a snappy suit?
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You would probably be stunned to find out that this "movement" was started by paid plants. I won't say anything...
Your capitalist dream is now owned by the communist Chinese banks.
this country was not founded on the ideology of capitalism, but on the principles of Democracy, that is, the assertion of human dignity, integrity and equal treatment under the law. If you are what you say you are, then how can you be in support of the current lack of regulation of banks, which defies all principles of accounting as well as capitalism? This is Plutocracy plain and simple and it cannot endure.
A capitalist is one that privatly owns the means of production and profits on other peoples labor (cf surplus /capital). Youre not a capitalist jsut by supporting capitalism aka private tyranny
Think we should 'bare' in mind? Dumb shits.
since he's from norway - english is probably his second or third language. how many languages do you speak?
I love how the trolls will say the entire movement is written off by a spelling mistake. And how in god's name do you have negative two points and the asshole who wrote the post you responded to has like four?
Haha who knows - there's too many trolls on here so I don't really post anymore. It's usually the guy who thinks his "Occupy a job" post is really witty and creative. Or the guy who says something about the fact that they have iphones or you know... clothes (because they're made by a corporation i presume) that we have to become mindless sheep and follow the status quo. Generally I just feel bad for those with such poor critical thinking skills.
Matt, the trolls certainly are out in force here. Though it makes thread reading cumbersome, it is a very encouraging development. Each new troll tells us that another member of the 1% feels threatened by OWS. Threatened enough to pay a troll to attempt to hijack or discourage the movement. If we continue to be threatening enough to the 1%, they just might begin paying for trolls with the critical thinking skills you lament. If they are going to irritate us, they could at least do it intelligently.
Old hippie fuck I need your help. Need help making a t-shirt. We need to draw a picture of Zooccotti Park with a cage around it. Here are some ideas: Draw a hippie climbing the cage like a monkey and throwing shit. Draw a hippie rolling in mud and shit like a pig. Draw a hippies fucking like dogs. Draw a picture of a hippie eating peanuts like a big fucking elephant. Draw a hippie as a lazy fucking Ape doing nothing.
I know what you mean. It is really weird how many of the posts have been troll posts lately. As soon as a new news post goes up like the first ten posts are overtly critical or just plain insulting. But what's weirdly nice is that this does not seem to be general consensus at all. If you look at the reader responses on all of the recent NY Times articles on us they're largely positive. There are a few negative posts that get some recognition (our dear friend Occupyajob is there - can't get enough of that one, especially as I have a job), but for the most part people in the center seem to be supporting us.
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Poor critical thinking skills? So your mind is thinking well, you are not mindless sheep then why you follow the OWS? Where do you live? America is build by the corporation like PG, GM, Microsoft, Intel, and so on. yes they do lay off people, and yes there are less then 1% of those corporations CEO got reach and ran away but at same time there Bill Gate who is donating his money for the needed and there are people who is also funding the OWS movement. It is the government who is currently in power need to be replaced not the Wall Street people, OWS is too chicken to say the truth that they want a new government so they turn to the shadow figure in the back and blame they are the source of the entire problem. No the issues is the people who has the power are given these corporation the power. If we do not want to be a mindless sheep we must see it clear on the food chain of given and taken. In case my poor writing no one get the point I will drew it out for you. you own a corporation/business is to make money, to make money you need power to carry out your plan so you can make more money, to get that you go to the person who can give you the power- the government. then Government needs your tax dollars in return after you have succeed, then the tax dollars can be use for public school etc. and including the office's pay holding bunch of idiot back.
So you think corporations are not to blame. Watch this video in which a single lobbyist details how he bribed over 100 senators, congressman and judges. Rember there are 1000's of lobbyists. http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=7387331n&tag=re1.channel
I blame the people taking the bribes, not the ones making them.
see once again it is the people, this is the cause and effects. OWS if is not going to turn over the government by some means, then all go home let's work with the system and change it for a better, by protesting it does help but I had say it many times enough is enough. let our voting power to do the work and let our people power recreate jobs. protesting for two months that is counter productive, keep on blaming you end up with nothing. I like to say let's go back to the drawing board and change the people who are corrupted. One more example for you folks if you willing to think rationally, we all said fast food and smoking are bad for your health, but do you see the commercial that push these things to our young children, yes due to protest the law maker has restricted the tobacco company in some way of doing their business, but that is not the point here after all the point is we the 99% still has people shoveling fast food and smoking a pack a day. this is what I call it market need, if there are no need then they go away, if we can change people by education of goodness, kindness and willing to share then the world might become something we all dream to live together. Stop smoking and it has make the 1 % richer and our health institute 99% poorer and then the insurance company making a100% of net profit. what happen to us? we the people are protesting on the street in a cold night ask them to play a fair game.
You can vote out every elected official and you will not change the nature of our government: a corporate takeover. With our campaign finance laws we put up our elected officials on the auction block to the highest bidder. Have you noticed how the campaign war chest of candidates for office continues to grow exponentially with each passing election and are you not surprised that nearly half of our legislators are millionaires - Mayor Bloomberg a billionaire. We the people will not have representation in our government until our campaign finance laws are abolished and we pass a Constitutional Amendment that limits all campaign finance to public financing. The core interpretation that money = speech needs to be abolished. All elected and appointed positions must be limited to two terms. All government officials, once they leave office need to be prohibited from ever lobbying our government. Electing new officials in the current system will continue to erode the voice of the 99%
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Haha, was that really the only criticism you could offer of Struggle's post? I had no idea it was so flawless? Based on your positive review, it is certainly worth a reread.
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CUNY and NYU students are correct.
In my day, public education was not a profit center for corporations.
Public education was viewed as something that strengthened America's capacity.
Public education -- affordable public education -- was viewed as something critical to America's survival.
Public education was viewed as something that built America into a powerhouse.
Good quality affordable public education produced Nobel prize winners, leaders of government, produced captains of industry, gave us the scientists who discovered life-saving medicines, put a man on the moon, invented the technology that we enjoy today, and gave us the might and wisdom to win the Cold War.
Now it is all about profits. Students are profit centers.
Absolutely right. Working through school, I was able to finish off my debt the following year. The same is true of people I know who went to college in the 90's, 80's, 70's and 60's.
http://www.bestcollegesonline.com/blog/2011/08/08/a-timeline-of-college-tuition/
"2008: Tuition fees have increased 439% since 1982, while income has only gone up 147%."
Of course the nut-cases will say, "These students are just wining! I paid for college no problem!" Which is exactly the point, students today want the same shot at a future as students of yesterday.
I entered NYIT this year to start a master's degree. The typical 3-unit course costs $2790 now, $930 per unit. Even after you adjust for inflation, that's a whole year's tuition for all courses in 1973.
Of course it's expensive!!! Why did you pick a private school to show your college rates? College is affordable...if you have a work ethic.
I can afford it, I'm employed. I brought up the prices to demonstrate what younger students in the class are going through.
By your logic though, why not increase the price another 400%? 4000%? Maybe we should make it so that if you work hard your entire life the bankers can keep all your hard earnings until you're 80 years old when you can finally finish your debt.
We'll call it the plantation system.
There's no one holding a gun to your head saying you need to accumulate debt - it's a choice. I agree the cost of being 'successful' and living the 'American dream' has gone up. I think that's a direct result of the state of the American economy and the economic policies. I don't believe it's the bankers fault or the so-called 1% ( more like 47%). Are there problems? Absolutely. Do I think OWS is the right venue? Absolutely not. It's misplaced passion. OWS is passionate - great! Use that passion to change policies, to elect fair government officials who won't accept pocket-padding. Use the FAIR and JUST legislative process that has been in place since the birth of our nation.
What do you think they are doing?
How do you get public attention and votes when there is no public forum? If it weren't for this event, we wouldn't even be having this discussion. Once public discussion is established, it can turn into policy and votes. It also allows people to overcome the corporate PR that dominates mainstream media.
You should be happy for OWS.
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I think I'll go block your front door for the next week so you can't go to work, because MY opinion is FAR more important than your insignificant little life, so you should make that sacrifice for MY demands. Sound fair? No? Then stay the FUCK off the subways you assholes!
I went home through the subways yesterday with absolutely no problems at all. You're making stuff up to discredit the OWS people. Try harder troll.
Moron, are any of the targeted stations your stop? If yes, then I guess they failed at their objective of blocking the subway there. If no, then you're a fucking idiot.
Yes, I go through Borough Hall. All your self righteous claims and threats merely demonstrate that you aren't even from the area and you are using a made up persona. Go back under your bridge, troll.
Again, showing how much of a moron you are. "Going through" is NOT the same as it being your stop. Being on a subway passing through Borough Hall (Jay St) is NOT the same as trying to get on (or off) the subway at a station that is being 'occupied' by OWS. Your response is just grasping at straws and is a pathetic attempt at denying the FACT the OWS occupying subway stations angered a LOT of people and cost a lot of support. I was pissed, and you can't sit there and tell me I wasn't you fucking idiot.
I think the saddest part of all this is that you think you are "getting back" at people. You're too young to know this, but there are precious few things that are lasting in life. One of the only things you can keep, that isn't ephemeral, is your honor and dignity; given the choice, did you do the right thing.
You have gone around here cursing at complete strangers, calling a Nebraskan a "imbred okie motherfucker", and kicking people when they are down. Seeing you flail about is like watching a person cutting themselves. Soon you'll have nothing left; a hollow living phantom raging through the land.
You may hide your identity, but you cannot hide from the knowledge of what you have done.
Clearly I have got under your skin, so thanks, you have validated my "getting back" at people, as you put it.
BTW I've never called anyone an "Okie" in my life, so it's pretty obvious where that slur came from - YOU. Just like when you tried pulling the race card on me, and then realized that was all YOU as well. I think YOU need to take a good long look in the mirror. You have repeatedly accused me of things I never said or did, and it all has come from your apparently bigoted imagination. And now here you are trying to preach dignity to me. LMAO!
I cannot hide from the knowledge of what I have done? HAHAHAHA - what, you mean show you up for the racist hypocrite you are? News flash genius - I'm not hiding - YOU are the one in denial.
FYI I'm probably old enough to be your father, son. About time you did some growing up you loser.
Oh, and I KNOW I've done the right thing calling out selfish little entitlement punks like you. Nobody owes you a damn thing you jerk, no matter how much of a tantrum you throw. You're pathetic.
We can read everything you've said in every post. Nobody is fooled by your games.
I have nothing to hide. You are the one throwing a tantrum like the spoiled little student brat you are, and you are the one throwing the race card when your little mind can't handle the fact you might actually be wrong about something (god forbid!). Grow up you silly little fool - you're an embarrassment to your parents.
Obvious troll is obvious. Sometimes I wonder where such socially deranged people come from.
Btw, I do get on at Borough Hall. They were there. They were telling stories and showing their presence, exactly like they said they were going to. The trains were perfectly fine. The only people ever to block the trains were the police when they were attacking Zuccotti, another time when they were clubbing people, and then of course the 3 days during the dud hurricane.
Now you've just PROVED what a liar you are. What a fucking loser.
Same route for me every day. Crown Heights, Borough Hall, Dumbo. Go to school up past Wall Street to 59th Columbia Circle.
You're from New Jersey, and you weren't even there. So put a sock in it.
I should have known. A student - the ultimate whining entitlement brat. You've tried the race card on me twice, made up lies about what I posted, now you're saying I'm from Jersey. Kid, you know less than nothing about real life, and your attitude is exactly what one would expect from a selfish little brat who thinks the world owes you something. Pathetic.
I've been a full time professional for 10 years. I saw your profile before you changed it, and it said New Jersey. I also go to school. All you do is send insults all day.
No normal human would stick around for so long without saying anything productive. Why are you even here?
Like I said - all you can do is lie when you cornered and forced to face the truth that you are wrong. Are you even intelligent enough to realize that you are proving me correct over and over? I guess not. Hey, why don't you throw the race card at me again - I'm sure you can make something up. It was probably in my profile too. LOL.. what a tool.
You obviously weren't in New York, you had no reason to be angry with them. You were not blocked in the subway. You have nothing left.
Oh no, here comes the WAAAAAAAAMBULANCE. One whining entitlement brat Vnayar needs a resuscitation, he's going all red in the face from his tantrum! FYI it was already well established where I was, and I was not blocked just once, but twice - once in the morning in lower Manhattan, once in the afternoon in Brooklyn. Now go change your nappy you little baby, or are you going to throw a tantrum instead because nobody will do it for you? Again, you're pathetic.
Colleges were to 'manufacture' knowledge for the betterment of America in the 50s. Now they're just extensions of highschool to fill the same crappy jobs I remember 16 year olds holding over the summer.
Hi Toynbee, Excellent post. Best Regards, Nevada
You are advocating affordable public education, but the protesters are advocating free college education. Which one should it be? If the latter, how is the free college education funded?
let the big companies pay 38% in taxes like I do and there would be plenty for education for the country
38%?? where do you live? Are you talking combined state and fed taxes?
But if you're a rich investor, you pay capital gains at only 15%. We really have a regressive tax structure. The IRS reports that the 400 wealthiest families only paid on average 16.5% in taxes.
Don't take my word for it, the rich brag about this openly in their own magazines. http://www.forbes.com/2010/02/18/forbes-400-irs-capital-gains-personal-finance-rich-pay-less-tax.html
Out of the 280 corporations among the Fortune 500 that paid any taxes because they didn't have losses (remember, privatized profits, socialized losses), they only paid on average 18.5%
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-20129155/study-many-fortune-500-cos-paid-$0-taxes/
30% federal + 7% NY + 3.5% NYC Now throw in 8.875% sales tax, about $10 a month added to the cell-phone bill, $104/month for subway.
People keep saying, "Oh in socialist Europe and Canada they pay nearly 50% in taxes!" Well at least they have something to show for it...
In socialist China they pay 81.6% tax on personal income, and 70% tax on business income, so shove that up your socialist ass and go fuck yourself.
How is that even relevant to tax rates in the USA? All I'm saying is that we get extremely poor services for what we pay. They pay similar tax rates in Europe and Canada (the places I mentioned if you read my comment), but they get an excellent low-cost education system, free health care, excellent infrastructure, retirement, etc. Step outside of your back yard for once in your life.
Hey dumb fuck I was replying to YOUR comment where you were spouting about EU taxes! How is it not relevant - you're making one point to fit your agenda, so I've provided another which goes in the other direction, and you question the relevance? Damn, how fucking stupid are you?
When this country was first founded, most workers were in agriculture or in a trade and thus public education for funded through elementary school. It was like that until the industrial revolution took place and the needs of the country required better educated people. We are now in the technological era, and the needs of the country requires at least a bachelors degree and thus this too should be funded. The future of this country requires education that meets the needs of this country. Not all families can afford to send their kids to college and without higher learning for all our future is grim. Unless you wish to brush up on your mandarin or Hindi !!!
There's nothing wrong with brushing up on your Mandarin or your Hindi. I'm with you on everything else though. Education is a right not a privilege.
However, when this country was founded, most of those agricultural workers were slaves or indentured servants. At the time they were emancipated, many thinkers cautioned against falling into an analogous situation called "wage slavery". We've had stagnant wages for more than 3 decades, but the CEOs Salaries are rising. Many Americans are back on the plantation wondering how so little has changed. This is NOT in any way to discount the horrors of slavery. It is merely a comparison of economic factors. Of course the working class are not slaves, but they are indentured servants.
This wasnt a jab at the Chinese or the Indians. i am just saying if we do not provide higher education to everyone, this country will be further outsourced.
What is funny is that the poorer you are the more money is available to send your kid to college. Not talking about loans, but actually grants. If you make less than $60k a year, Harvard, Yale, Northwestern will give your child a free education if they are accepted to the college.
These are universities with HUGE endowments. But how many kids educated in poverty actually have a shot considering the school districts where they got their primary school educations.
I think it is a lot less than 60K, but 60k doesnt buy you much these days. Either way if public education was expanded through the 16th grade, the playing field would be a little more leveled. Then again, who knows.
Nope it is $60k.That is not a bad salary if you live outside of a major metropolitan area (New York, L.A., S.F.).
That is just a bit more then the yearly tuition for the schools I listed.
I'm not sure...but maybe we could model free education on how U.K. France, etc., do it...seems to have worked there for many years.
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Proper education dose not come from government work hard and then you will be free,
I work full time...always have always will...I've served 8 years active duty protecting the constitution of the United States...I've personally beed in the position of safeguarding the codes to all out nuclear war...I've served as President Bush Sr.'s HONOR GUARD...I've won several national awards...I've attended university at the University of Oxford...do you really want me to go on? I don't require a lecture on working hard...that IS THE LIE...see you can work your ass off....be a 4.0 GPA throughout college....get a great job....but it does not change the fact that the corruption in this country runs so deep....that people such as myself resond "ENOUGH". I've been all over the world...and what impresses me is the resolve that common people have throughout Europe to stand up against corruption and oppression...I think it might serve you well hardworker to do a little more research before categorizing an entire movement that is made up of well educated, hard working, award winning, war vets...along with people who have not been afforded the opportunities in life that I have. BTW...I currently work for $10.00 per hour...no health insurance...no vacation time...major holidays paid. My time is floating...so I may be told to work 14 hours one day...then told to not come in the next so my employer avoids paying me any overtime...I'm 47 years old...and I'm not taking this shit anymore...Oh...I have 4 bilogical children...7 adopted children...2 cars....a dog...and a 7 bedroom, 4 bath home that is falling apart because I don't have the money to maintain it anymore...thanks to what bankers have done to this economy...that's my reality...and I'm a HARD WORKING DISABLED VETERAN to Boot!!!
Oh, buddy. I think you your story is one big lie. Talk about trolls.
sadly..it's true...not a troll.
War is Peace
Freedom is Slavery
Ignorance is Strength
Well, the CEO of your company will be free. And the CEO of the company selling your company the health insurance which you'll soon be required to purchase will be free. And the President and all the members of the Board of Regents of your University will be free. But you, you'll be a slave, working hard at... erm. Have you heard? There are no jobs! And it's not getting better any time soon. And if you think they're not getting a "proper education" for free in the UK you're a fool. Government has nothing to do with it. This is not about government, it's about not funding the salaries, stock options, and bonuses of the richest of the super rich. It's about funding public education because privatized education is a for-profit endeavor which leaves out the students.
Workers of the world, unite!
Real workers of the world are working today while you sit around thinking up senseless slogans.
What "hard work" do you do?
http://www.tuftsdaily.com/op-ed/the-price-of-learning-rising-tuition-fees-in-the-united-kingdom-1.2480216#.TsXQET0k67s
A pretty even handed article on the rising cost of UK college costs beginning next year.
First, I think you are wrong. OWS protestors are not advocating free education. Most of the young people I've spoken to only want to have the public education that college kids paid in the 1960s, 1970's. The public universities charged for books and tuition back then, but not equal to a home mortgage to get a degree for a job that paid peanuts. Tuition has skyrocketed far faster than the CPI inflation measures. When we have a public education system that only the elite few can afford, then we are doomed as a society.
"Students chanted "CUNY should be free!" and "Student Power!" as they took to the streets along 16th and 5th Avenue, shutting down traffic and leaving police powerless to respond."
That is the quote from the above article about the protest. Second, college is more affordable for the poor then the "elite". If your family makes under $60k a year almost all of the major universities will provide 100% financial aid to the student. Not loans but actual grants.
If you make over $100k a year you have to take out loans if you want your child to attend a major school unless your child obtains merit scholarships.
When the population is educated every member of society benefits. What is wrong with a free college education? We spend more than 50% of our annual Federal revenue on the military industrial complex and Homeland security with all of it's private contractor corporations are employing more than 2 million individuals. All this is for the benefit of corporate America. 4 trillion spent on two wars of choice. How much would it take to fund a free college education for every young adult in America?
So divert how much from national security and the military to fund free college for everyone? All of it? When the 2 million are laid off because the funding is cut, what do you advocate for their situation?
We can't afford the wars as it is. So spending the money we don't have to pay for everyone to go to college will come from where without putting us or keeping us in debt?
We can't afford the wars because the Bush Admin never created a war budget that would become part of the annual Federal Budget. It was President Obama who added the costs of the current 2 wars to the Federal Budget. Had it been added to the Federal Budget there would have been demands for cuts and tax increases to pay for these wars. Bush sidestep this process and instead passed out tax cuts. The Pentagon is the only Department of government that has never been audited by the GOA. It is rife with waste and fraud. This won't change until the voters demand a mandatory annual audit of the Pentagon. As to the costs of a free college education, the State in conjuction with the Federal government could establish a working budget. Todays college costs are prohibitive to the majority of young people. Our State Universities and Colleges need to be investigated for their annual exponential tuition hikes.
@HarryPairatestes2: Do you honestly think it is in any way morally acceptable for billionaires to be sleeping in penthouses while you wonder out loud how free college education should be funded? billionaires in the world could send every goddam student in this country to college if they wanted and still comfortably recline in luxury suites. there is not a lack of money, there's a distribution problem.
this isn't even getting into the issue of the cost of schooling in the first place, which has been severely inflated due to corporate control of our higher education system (private and public schools alike).
What is the corporate control of universities you are talking about? Which corporations are controlling which colleges?
@HarryPairatestes2
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/14/goldman-sachs-for-profit-college_n_997409.html
http://www.care2.com/causes/how-goldman-sachs-exploits-student-debt-for-profit.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/09/education/09forprofit.html
http://www.wiredacademic.com/2011/10/goldman-sachs-a-factory-for-dipomas-bubbles-and-profits-at-edmc/
You are posting links about for-profit colleges not state colleges. They are set up strictly to turn a profit from tuition. They typically are not accredited nor are their classes transferable to state universities. Think of Westwood University, DeVry, etc.
Your initial post implied accredited state colleges and/or private accredited universities are corporate controlled. Doe you have any links regarding those schools?
That wasn't me that posted those links, that was someone else. But, MrCuloFace, thanks for the support. @HarryPairatestes2, here's some other reading:
http://www.aaup.org/AAUP/pubsres/academe/2011/JF/Feat/wash.htm (how corporations influence research and restrict academic freedom)
http://motherjones.com/mojo/2011/05/charles-koch-florida-state-academic-freedom
http://kmareka.com/2007/04/02/questioning-corporate-influence-on-science-bp-and-berkeley/
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines01/0626-01.htm
http://www.alternet.org/education/151921/chomsky:_public_education_under_massive_corporate_assault_%E2%80%94_what%27s_next/
http://www.desmogblog.com/big-oil-goes-college-big-way-report-explores-corporate-control-university-energy-research
There's PLENTY more where these came from: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=corporate+influence+on+research+universities
Also, a lot of the research that has been done on this is found in academic journals, which are generally not open access.
Thru donations to their research endeavors, sports facilities etc. Who are the members of the Board of Regents? lots of ways to discover and uncover.
Various sectors of universities have large chunks of money invested in corporations, whether in sports teams using Nike gear or in campus bookstores being run by Barnes & Noble, etc. While not ALWAYS a bad thing, this often results in a loss of control by students, staff, and faculty of the campus and results in universities making decisions based on how it will affect their partnership with these large corporations.
Nike getting their brand on a football jersey for LSU or Barnes & Noble providing the textbooks doesn't mean they control the school's curriculum or who gets hired as a professor, etc.
Do you know of any university that cut a class or degree program because Nike disagreed or any corporation donor disagreed?
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So who decides how much your child gets from someone else's personal wealth? Is the value based on the tuition from Harvard, Yale, your local state university, or your local community college?
Should you contribute to a family who has less then you in sending their kids to college?
I by no means promote some direct redistribution of wealth; its silly to ask hypothetical questions that don't reflect the way any system would ever actually work. But the questions you raise are the questions we should be asking and discussing and finding solutions to, rather than simply accepting the status quo. Further, I'm not sure what's so difficult to understand about the basic premise that if the wealthy and able were taxed more, then we would not be going through a period of austerity in which students' resources across the country are being slashed in every level of education. We need to be coming up with ways to solve these problems, rather than defending the rich and powerful.
You're right, there is not some easy solution, and I don't pretend that there is one. I would recount to you every book on economics I've ever read that has made me come to my current positions, but I can't right here.
no problem.
No wealth,private or public, is created in a vacuum. It takes society with a communally created infrastructure and a social contract to create wealth. Some individuals live the delusional persuasion that they have created their wealth singlehandedly. Corporations would never register a profit if it were not for the labor of their employees and the support of their society that offers their goods and services a functional market. The perspective that a single individual creates their wealth is narcissistic and dishonest. It is used to exploit and extract the wealth created by labor, consumers and society at large.
So Kobe Bryant earning over $20 million a year is not a result of his own talent and endeavors? Insert the name of any well known actor and ask the same question.
So how much should Kobe be sending you so that your child can go to college?
The people of our country build cities and towns and thru their production of goods and services generated a market economy. Without cities there would be no movie industry. It takes large population centers to support theaters and stadiums. The fact that an actor can earn 20 mil is due to the script writers, producers, directors, coaches, costume designers, makeup artists and camera people, editors, distributors and marketers and consumers willing to give him a chance on their dollar. In addition there are the teachers and educational institutions that provided the necessary preparation for all these professionals to create a stage for K Bryant to showcase his ability. Lets not leave out all the farmers, farm workers, food transporters, processors and grocery stores with all their employees just so that Kobe Bryant and his family could eat. And then there are the clothing and housing, energy and transportation providers. Take any one of these functions out and there is no 20 mil for Kobe Bryant no matter how talented he is. So without the support of an entire country Kobe would never see the stage. Kobe should be paying a tax that reflects the benefits accrued to him by the people of his country.
Harry, you need to turn off the MSM source that has been clouding your thinking. When you can challenge ideas without resorting to distortive talking points like "someone else's personal wealth" you'll be able to add to the debate. It is your birthright - reclaim it! No exorbitant hoard of wealth is amassed personally; thus, no person is entitled to said exorbitant hoard.
so how much am I entitled to from you?
Free and affordable are pretty interchangeable; education in many countries is considered to be reasonably free because tuition is actually affordable.
Free and affordable are not interchangeable. Free means no cost. Reasonable means you pay. So what is "reasonable"?
The very fact that all the corporate media is covering this action today makes it a success. The movement continues to grow. Zuccatti Park is everywhere, and the elites who got bailed out for destroying our economy can't evict an idea who's time has come.
The corporate media is lying about the protests, I don't think that is helping. Not one major news source has told the truth. Boycott them!
Well let's see, CBS, NBC, ABC, Fox, MSNBC, CNN, CNBC and according to you the Weather Channel all conspired against you. All parroted exactly what the City of New York released? Without vetting the information for themselves? You really need to be looking for black helicopters and and start looking under rocks for Federal Agents out to get you. Watch out for those black Fords parked in front of the park. Boo!
I didn't mean The Weather Channel... :)
But, yes, the major networks suck up to their corporate sponsors. You must have seen the stupid aerial views of NY today. Some unidentified sparsely populated street corner, all day the same view.
Did you ever stop to consider that the amount of people that showed up were exaggerated by the OWS press releases. If you think that 10k people showed up today I have a bridge in Brooklyn i want you to look at.
I said police scanners showed how many people where there.
Police scanners? The City of NY uses a truncked communications system. Each individual precinct, fire station and city mobile unit has it's own tone code. You morons deciphered this code? I doubt it.
My brother is an officer in NYC, and he confirmed the 32k number. (he's a non-violence supporter- refuses to be a part of the counter-protest action) And they were using scanners to count the numbers of protestors. You're the one whose false here.
Ok than do not watch the major networks, which by the way includes NPR. Since they no longer get tax dollars they have solicited corporate sponsorship. So let's see what does that leave? Hmmmmmm.
That leaves you free from the idiot box.
BWHAHAHHA! Which is it? good to be covered or not?
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What movement? What idea? Besides being a pain in the arse to those of us who work for a living, what have you accomplished? You've made the news, so what? You've spouted some broad brush anti-establishment slogans, marched, camped, laid down, stood up and beat on some five gallon buckets. So what? Christ man, I share your frustration with bailouts and a bought political system (state and federal capitals is where you should actually be protesting by the way), but you guys are a punchline now. And to be standing side-by-side with public union employees, who's greed and corruption have had more negative effect on education costs than any of the so-called 1% ever have, just make you look like a bunch of tools. Call it a night and go home. Really man, just go home.
LOL...yeah, you share our frustration with bailouts and a bought political system, but you're just gonna go ahead and not do a GODDAMNED thing about it. Gee, where I have heard THAT one before... :-) But wait, let me guess--it's all good because you WORK. Well guess what? I work too! So do a lot of people in OWS. We work full-time, and then we go down there anyway and march. Why? Because we give a shit, and we're not lazy. What's your excuse? You people crack me up...
Excuse for what? Not joining a mass mental masturbation fest?
I do plenty. I get involved where it might make a difference - in our political system. I volunteer and I donate to candidates who haven't been corrupted by the system (yet). And don't imply that I don't give a shit and that I'm lazy, you don't know me.
The OWS has become a circle jerk. When all is said and done you will have accomplished nothing unless you actually do something that will effect some change, and you are wasting time considering the elections are only a year away. As it is now you are just pissing off the people who you want on your side, myself included.
@ Vooter, Gladstone over at Cracked.com says it way better than I ever could. With the exception of a few comments that go a little further left than I would, he nails it right on the head:
http://www.cracked.com/blog/3-types-wall-street-protesters-hurting-their-own-cause/
right.. 70% of occupy protestors have a job.
We've changed the dialogue in Washington already, and legislators are scared enough that they've started drafting amendments to the constitution to overturn citizens united.
Ah, the great big "evil unions are out to get us!"..... go back to Faux News.
KEEP UP THE PRESSURE!! The only way you, OWS, all will make a difference is if you affect the day to day operation or flow of life, commerce, and or government. As i once witnessed in France, their government wanted to raise fines, tolls, taxes, etc. on all commercial truck drivers and trucking companies. What happened next was amazing. All French trucking companies and drivers criss crossed their trucks across all major highways in their country, completely blocking and disabling the transportation of all goods throughout the country. This lasted for about a week or less, until the government backed down and reversed its decision. It worked because it takes a protest of this scale to affect change. Occupying a park, although symbolic, will never ever ever do anything to change how disgustingly our government and the rich control all our lives, and continue to make the rich richer. You need to regroup, and i mean regroup all OWS protesters from across the country to a few very large simultaneous protests because small groups here and there won't really make a statement and can be easily intimidated and disbanded by authorities. You need a board of smart leaders that can effectively communicate a set of real smart ideas and demands and better organize the movement. You need to continue to use social media as a way to communicate as they did in the middle east to oust their dictators. But most of all you need to make one massive statement by protesting and affecting the day to day operation or flow of life, commerce, and or government. It will be the only way that you will get the govt and the rich to stop.......turn around......and stare in awe at the EPIC scale of the movement before them, and realize that the time has come, and that We The People have officially drawn the line in the sand, and are no longer willing to play their game any longer. IT IS THE ONLY WAY. Thank you.
Wish I could be there with you guys!
"In this possibly terminal phase of human existence, democracy and freedom are more than just ideals to be valued - they may be essential to survival" - Noam Chomsky
yours struggleforfreedom
What is occurring in NYC, needs to occur simultaneously in DC around the Capitol. PLEASE tell all other OWS chapters to descend on DC as well!!
We saw much of the same reaction during the march to Selma, and during the buss boycotts. Those who hated the movement, who didn't even use those particular methods of transportation, screaming for the first time in their lives to think about the poor children, to think about the women who could be harmed.
Concern Trolls of the 1%: history appreciates that you are thinking about the children, but so are we, and ours is one that they will thank us for.
How can you even compare this movement to the Civil Rights movement??? That just makes me sick. You cheapen the heroes of the Civil Rights fight by even considering placing these protesters on the same level.
Corruption on Wall St. sanctioned by our government is a thing to fight against, but NONE of these protesters have been denied a job, a place to live, and education, a seat at a lunch counter or a place in front of the bus simply because of their color...... NONE of them have had family members or friends beaten, lynched or blew up for it either......
If you want to be taken seriously don't compare yourselves to people you aren't fit to wipe the shoes of.
@sinead: I think it is pretty clear that many participants in OWS are concerned about issues of social justice. A big part of OWS is fighting for values that the Civil Rights movement also fought for. Racism and classism are closely related in this country.
Look at the prominent intellectuals and activists who support OWS. I have no doubt that, were MLK alive today, he would be on board.
I'm sorry, I just don't see it that way. They actually haven't "fought" for anything. They have spent most of their time building their "community" MLK and the civil rights movement had a clear and concise message and took steps to get them across, OWS has done neither of those things.
While he may agree with the premise OWS was founded on, as I do, I don't think he would have put a lot of faith in this chaotic movement. What prominent intellectuals and activists? Chomskey? Moore? Angela Davis? Please, their names may be prominent but their influence certainly isn't and I don't see them walking with the marchers like the prominent Civil Rights activists did.
The Civil Rights movement did not appear from nothing. I understand your concerns that OWS has not yet materialized into a force that you consider to be influential enough (although I'm not sure what exactly that as), but I don't think you can argue that it has sparked an international debate about inequality and the failures of neoliberalism. Building community is an incredibly important part of any movement fighting for change, and I'm not sure why you seem to be writing it off.
It is difficult to "measure" influence...personally, I view Chomsky and Davis as extremely influential intellectuals, along with Cornel West, Judith Butler, Jeffrey Sachs (and many others who have supported OWS) as extremely important in their fields and in activist circles in general. If you don't agree, that's fine, nothing I can say will likely change your mind.
You are right you will not change my mind.
I am aware our "system" needs to have some major changes, I am also a strong believer of social programs, I believe that we should cut out all unnecessary spending, (turtle tunnels, bridges to nowhere etc.) I am not against much of what the OWS stands for. I am against the notion that they can do it by building their "direct democracy" community.
I do not share the political beliefs of anarcho-syndicalists, communists or socialists. And you must be aware that many people consider Jeffery Sachs to be a neoliberal, the very thing you point to as failing. And while Judith Baker may be lauded in some circles she is nothing more than an incoherent academic philosopher. None of these people have offered any solutions to the problems this country faces... in fact neither has OWS. People are tired of talk, we get enough of that from Washington.
ok, ok, ok.....I guess my question is, who do you consider to be an influential activist or intellectual right now / who do you respect? and if these people supported OWS, would that change your opinion? now i'm just curious.
BTW, I don't particularly like Jeffrey Sachs, but he is certainly influential and he has supported OWS.
Yes, maybe Butler is only respected in certain circles, but so is anyone. She has been extremely influential in the world of gender studies and no queer activist would deny the significance of her impact on queer rights (whether they agree with every nuance of her scholarship is of course a different story). Either way, she has changed the direction of research in disciplines such as literary theory, musicology, gender studies, history, etc.
I would suggest reading some of Butler's essays that address the link between theory and activism. She, like any academic, has long been criticized of being incomprehensible. But academics' job is often times to help us understand problems, not necessarily find quick & easy solutions.
I believe that the kinds of conversations OWS has inspired are political in their own right; I don't think that OWS needs to right now lay out a policy they want to see pushed through Congress in order to be successful or influential (though I presume that is what you would like to see in order to believe they are doing any good?). I believe dialogue, conversation, and shifting currents of discourse ARE important and DO eventually change policies on the ground.
I can understand your frustration that these effects are not yet readily visible.
Look, personally I don't think that we, as the 99%, need to have any "influential activist" endorse what the OWS formed for.... none of those people started this movement. They only showed up after the OWS gained some attention. They come down from their ivory towers to give their blessing to something they have contributed nothing to.
Do you think that the young single mother struggling to finish school, or the young man on the factory line, or the middle aged person working behind a sales counter or the man and woman approaching retirement that haven't been to college even know who Chomsky, Davis, West, Butler, Sachs are, to them these people are nothing but names that mean absolutely nothing to them. Pointing out how wonderful it is that these "talking heads" have endorsed this movement does nothing but inflate those within the movement.
OWS should be more worried about getting that young mother, young man, middle aged person or senior to endorse them.... because without those people, the real important people, this movement hasn't a chance.
...I 100% agree. I think that's exactly what OWS HAS been focusing on, and they've explicitly been resisting being co-opted. I've merely been trying to counter your claim that no influential activists (a la MLK) have been involved in the movement.
Well, all I can say is that none of those people that you mentioned could be put on the same list as MLK. And I still believe that OWS has a long way to go in getting the "average" American on board in the way that will make a difference.
I agree. I think we're on the same page. (Although I don't think there is any "average" American....I think plenty of working class people are supporting this movement, at least in my state of Indiana, if that is what you mean by average. That said, there were PLENTY of "average" people that weren't supportive of Civil Rights movements, anti-war movements, 70s environmental movements, and women's movements...but that's not to say these movements were ineffective or not influential.)
Yes, "average" Americans, working class, stay at home Moms, retirees, etc..,. and yes I'm sure they say they support this movement. I think we all support the premise. But what do they really know about it? They hear "Occupy Wall St" and "Get the money out of Politics" We can all agree with those statements.... and say we support them. But do you honestly think that, let's say a 20 something young mother or a retiree that spent his whole life working in a factory would actually be able to understand what OWS was doing if they spent a week at one of these camps? I hazard to bet they would either come away completely angry or confused. What OWS is doing is very philosophical, most people do not operated their daily lives philosophically.
Why do you think the Tea Party was so successful? It was because they came together with language and actions "average" people can wrap their heads around. What OWS is doing lends itself to a class of educated elite.....I point to the people you named as part of my proof of that. They also forget that the "community" they are trying to build works on a base that says everyone will respect and honor the whole...... and we have all seen by the problems they have had within their own "community" that that is just not realistic. Humans can be a very nasty bunch when left with no boundaries....
While I can understand and even agree with the anger and frustration that OWSers feel about the way our government has mucked things up, what they seem to want to comes off looking like fantasy. (and I say seem because no one has come out to say what it is they actually want to happen)
I think you underestimate "average" people. Have you been to an OWS meeting? If so, I'm curious as to your impression. My experience at OWS in 2 different cities has been that people are excited about the dialogue being sparked and are excited to talk about issues....even philosophical ones. And it was not only the "educated elite" that was at these meetings, in fact, aside from students, almost no one would probably be classified that way. That doesn't mean they weren't interested in having deep conversations about politics and economics.
I am not saying that "average" people are not capable of having conversations on the issues that are intelligent and have something to offer... it is not so much those conversations I am referring to. But you have to admit the "educated elite" I'm speaking of are the ones that are people who are directing this movement.
Yes I have been to a OWS General Assembly in the city I live in. While it was a good experience I can't say that it was something that inspired me to join the movement. Actually I found their way of making decisions a bit painful..... sometimes their objections to the minutiae of a proposal goes beyond ridiculous. And much of what comes out of their Working Groups is actually any thing that puts forth any action.
These are the things I mean when I say that the "average" American finds cumbersome. Most of us are willing to work hard to achieve the changes that need to be made. But the process OWS hasn't even allowed for those changes to be identified, or what if anything the movement will to to achieve them. Who in today's world has time for that? Certainly not anyone I am acquainted with.
I understand where you're coming from, but I guess I don't understand what you think should be done about it. Where do you think the changes in methods and goals in OWS come from? I think they come from people, on the ground. To me, the beauty of the movement is that if you have an issue with the movement, you don't have to go through some extensive bureaucratic system to get your voice heard. You can go to your local movement and get your voice heard -- this might take some patience, as real democracy does, but because there is no leader or single person or committee setting all the rules, the rules are free to be made by us.
He's comparing the critic's transportation argument to the Civil Rights movment's critic's arguments. Not he OWS movement to the Civil Rights movement. Critics to critics.
Take a chill pill.
Excuse me? I walked beside those in several of the civil right protests that happened in Illinois, I was there, and you have the gall to deny these people the honor of associating with those memories?
Martin Luther King was preparing the next phase of the civil rights movements when he was assassinated. Do you know specifically what he wanted to do? He wanted to protest wealth inequality, and the mismanaging of tax money in ways that did not benefit the poor and needy. Years later, we have finally realized why that was his next target.
We do him a great service by restarting the civil rights debate, and he would proudly stand with us today if he were here. Shame on you, for attempting to deny these protestors their rights to continue his work, on account of their age or generation, and for denying me my past.
btw, nice going.... changing that last sentence.
Well good for you.... I grew up(Wabash St near Temple St) in Detroit during the riots and walked in marches there as well, so what,... does that give you points? And yes I would deny these people the HONOR of associating with those memories.
And MLK was already fighting for economic justice... why do you think he was in Memphis? He was there to support a sanitation strike because the workers wanted more money....and safer working conditions. So go on with yourself...
So now you are telling us that OWS is a civil rights movement? I thought it was about corruption on Wall St?
I'm not denying these protesters any of their rights, I didn't realize that OWS was all white...... or are you saying they are no different than what people said about the Tea Partiers? I personally don't care what color the protesters are comparing this to the Civil Rights movement is wrong .
I'm saying that this movement can do just as much good, if not more, in this world than the movements preceding it. It was always a civil rights movement. It was about the right to be given a fair chance to survive economically, about having the power promised to them from the day they were born, to have politicians make decisions for the people. Those are fundamental rights that have developed in the heart of this country, regardless of whether or not they were understood by the founders.
I don't think that people that are on the outside of this movement see it as a civil rights movement, at least not in the way you are interpreting it. And if they want to change the economic unfairness on Wall St. they have to change what the "politicians make decisions for the people" that they elected. WE put those people in office, THEY made the laws that allow Wall St to do what they do. So, it seems only logical that in order to make the changes we want we must elect officials that will actually do what is good for the country, not what is good for them to keep getting elected.
This movement could do "as much good" as those in the past, but not if they focus on the monster, they need to focus on who created it.... Washington.
But that's the conservative-media line we are rejecting, and for good reason. Those saying we should blame Washington are the same ones who hate us, and who want us to fail. Fox News is very fond of saying we should protest Washington, not corporations, because it is a corporate-funded propaganda machine. If we protest Washington, then next year we will see another president whose campaign was corporate funded.. Washington is the monster- corporate dollars create the monster, and will continue to do so. It is fundamentally important that we continue to target corporations, otherwise, we will be tricked into the death of this movement.
Your canned remarks sound just like the canned remarks from the opposite side of this issue.
I am an Independent, while I watch Fox I also watch MSNBC, CNN, my local news, I read The Nation, as well as a lot of other sites that lean left and right. Why? Because it is important to get both sides of an issue before I make MY OWN decision about it.
I can't honestly believe that you think that you will accomplish stopping corporate funded elections by marching and waving signs in Wall St's face. What incentive do they have to stop something that is legal and benefits them to do?? Who will stop them? You, I, and all the people that agree with OWS? Do you honestly think they are gong to listen? You think they will stop out of the goodness of their hearts??
It isn't our President that makes the law it is Congress, so you start there. You hold their feet to the fire and force them to change the laws that allows this behavior. Wall st may have the money, but it is Congress that holds all the cards.....
Is it your intention to crash the Stock Market? Is that what you see as ther only way to end the corruption on Wall St? Do you realize what devastation that would cause? If you think we have it bad now, wait till you see what things would be like if you did manage to do that.
Or did you not read anything about what the Great Depression was like?
They are listening. Already, they are drafting amendments to the constitution to overturn Citizens United.
And i never said anything about NOT trying to hold a fire to congress- I've organized phone lines in my home occupy to call legislators to vote or not vote on legislation that pertains to our message.
Our intention is not to crash the stock market. There is no reason why those companies in the stock market would fail if they were to stop buying politicians.
Yes I read that Rep. Deutch introduced an amendment. Although I am glad that he did it really bothers me that he waited so long to do so, and that he is up for re-election in 2012.... how convenient. I will not get excited about it until I see it begin to move through Congress. You realize that it will first go to Committee (where it can linger forever) and then it has to pass a 2/3 vote in both houses of Congress and after that 75% of the States have to ratify it., or that 3/4 of Congress must call for a Constitutional Convention, and 3/5 of the States must approve it, (which has never been done).
All I can say is we will have to wait and see....... I don't think this is anything but political grandstanding.
Okay, so you say you do not want to crash the stock market... and you are right stopping them from pandering to the politicians will not make them fail. The best way to stop that is to remove those politicians that they pander too.
I think we can agree on a certain point here- those politicians who are corrupted by corporate backing would truly need to go.
Agree.
Cheers from EU where the banks are begging to take the democratic power directly and people from many countries and cities are protesting in the streets too.You are not alone, people here are also fighting against the same enemy as us.This fight it's a duty to any human being who knows how important is freedom and democracy to humankind.
I have a question for all of the OWS protesters and everyone in support of this movement: Why do the people of New York City, the policemen, the people who work on wall street and work their asses off, taxi drivers, small businesses, commuters, people like my dad who works in the city as a lawyer who fights to defend the law yet happens to be upper middle class, why do they have to suffer at the hands of protesters damaging property and staying in subway stations, acting selfishly and obsequiously. Can you please answer my question?
I have the same question... and it seems like other people do too. But nobody seems to want to comment on that... they just want to continue chanting and beating their drums. It's sad really, they have the right idea that change needs to happen, they are just going about it in the worse way possible... makes everyone look really uneducated.
Because the financial system in this country is about to collapse, that's why. Now, if you don't have the energy or the inclination to care about that, that's your business. But many of us DO care about it--a LOT--and if that happens to result in some inconvenience for you, well, that's just the price you pay for abdicating your responsibility to yourself, your loved ones, and your country. SOMEBODY'S gotta do the dirty work...
what dirty work? do you know what real dirty work is? Being a construction worker, plumber, factory worker, and any thing that involves REAL WORK, not standing around protesting. If you want a better economy, apply for jobs, and never, never, never give up. The American ethic is to not give up.
Sorry, I have a full-time job. AND I work as a freelancer. AND I have a mortgage and lots of bills. AND I'm still down there protesting with OWS. These protests aren't about jobs. They're about standing up to a CORRUPT MACHINE. If you don't understand that, then I can't help you...
That is not suffering. That is being slightly inconvenienced. If you think that having your comfort temporarily threatened is suffering than you have no imagination and an empty soul.
by suffering, i mean you are destroying the environment for business in this country by occupying a bunch of cities. Do you know what creates jobs? Do you know what encourages economic growth? Stability. We do not live in an oligarchy or plutocracy. We live in the most free and powerful nation in the world. As a country, we have done great things for the world and still continue to do so.
I'm pretty sure that our country's economic stability problems came more from the deregulation of the financial industry than from people choosing to exist in public space.
If our nation is the most free than why is the state beating citizens with batons for exercising their inalienable rights?
"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." - Goethe
How are these streets YOUR streets if the majority of you don't work and pay taxes? Your logic, or lack there of is not only alarming but makes you appear to be just as "selfish" as the 1%. As for the Wall Street incident. I am horrified by your behavior, you put so many people in danger. There are hundreds and thousands of residents, employees and children that were effected by your barbaric "demonstration". I would also like to point out that the HUMAN BEINGS that work inside of that stock exchange that you attempted to forcefully prevent from going to their JOBS are in the NINETY-NINE percent you so often speak (rather scream) of. And this is PEACEFUL? Look at yourselves, I respect your right to protest, but this has gone to a whole other level. What really topped off my day; however, was leaving school at 7pm to the remainder of your 'demonstration" in City Hall Park and the BK Bridge, it is really heartwarming to have the Police Force in Combat Gear stationed on your campus and no way to leave as I watch your terrifying costumes and propaganda fly by after already having to run the reverse way through your crowd being shoved around on the way in as you consume the sidewalk in its entirety. I should tell you, I know it's a bit late, but the campus was open, they are still accepting applicants and are among the top 10 in the country for internships. There are jobs out there. There are people working hard to get there, and some of them are young, tired, broke and working their asses off to land that dream job one day. That feeling of accomplishment- well, it will all be worth it. P.S. CUNY schools are amongst the best in the Country and are under 3k a semester as a New York Resident. I can't see ANY reason in the world why one would feel ok with arguing that. As for the Police, for crying out loud, could you imagine for one second being harrassed by thousands of angry and unpredictable protesters and then having to worry about a. the laws b. the safety of the public c. their own safety d. TRAFFIC and e. everything that is going to be immediately put online about them and the suits that will follow. Give them a break guys, they haven't slept in two months, they have been pretty good to you, it could be a lot worse. They have millions of people to protect, that is remarkable. As is the treatment you have gotten from Bloomberg v. the other cities. New York is an amazing place, lets keep it this way, no? Peace...Please... and thank you?
Congratulations on a mostly peaceful day. Staying on message and non-violent is the only path and #OWS held up it's end of that bargain. What an awesome day, way to go! There is much more to be done, but take a breath and appreciate what was accomplished today.
For the past few weeks, I have come home everyday from work and the first thing i do is log in to see what new happened during that day at OWS. And at first, I thought that the OWS group was a departure from the standard naysayers of the world. I thought OWS was going to organize into a cohesive movement that would work for change. But the more I have watched, the more disappointed I have become. You have allowed the movement to become a haven for those who want a hand out rather than a step up. That is not what the United States is about. I didn't have a job when I graduated college 2 years ago, but I got one as a manager at a gas station. It didn't pay well but it allowed me to pay down some of my school debt and move out of my parents house. Now I am debt free. I think this is what the US is about. So do those of us who want to support you a favor. Make your own way, come up with a plan, get small business and local politics involved. Screaming that you got sold out will change nothing. I'm hopeful that your passion will inspire change, but as of now the only thing you are doing is embarrassing yourselves and those who want to support you. Also, recognize that 10000 people gathering in NY city isn't 72 percent support...
As one who lived through the 60's and 70's revolution I have not been so inspired as I was yesterday. This is the beginning of a tidal wave that cannot be stopped. I am happy to have been there and proud to be a prt of this amazing reaction to what has happened in this country. It is what I have been waiting for! If the police estimated 32,000 there must have been 40,000. The Brooklyn Bridge was packed with rail to rail people crossing for a long time.
I was reading an article about the patriotic millionaires & billionaires that went to congress to ask the supper comity to raise their taxes, There is a list of them that signed a potion, Should I be surprised that Bloomberg's name is not on the list ? Here is the article
http://patrioticmillionaires.org/
To: Harrypairatestes2: Think about the NCAA, and how the emphasis on $$ for television rights has triumphed over so much. You think that isn't about exploitation for profit?? That's just one example of how corporations are dominating the flow of capital, to the disadvantage of most Americans.
I was working in my home offce today in Central Connecticut and was so inspired by what I was seeing I drove to New Haven and took a train to NYC. I was there today in Foley Square. I took that walk over the Brooklyn Bridge and I am a forver comitted to OWS!!! I am proud, proud, proud of all of you!!!! Thank you for restoring my faith!!!
The eviction from Zuccotti Park must be further pursued in court. The ruling upholding the eviction was flawed and bogus. Why? Because setting up camp gives voice to a movement -- to evict it is to muzzle First Amendment rights because to replace encampment with a daily presence in the park, as the judge proposed, is NOT the same. Sleeping in the park gives powerful voice to the desperation, the seriousness of purpose and the willingness to sacrifice. Evicting = silencing a powerful statement. Please pursue this legally. Bloomberg has trampled First Amendment rights in a country presented to the world as the greatest democracy in history.
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The tea has got to be the worst party in history! At least OWS is doing it for a true cause! You people actually stood up in council meetings over false accusations on Heath care reform. Death panel, really..make a copy of the actual page, paragraph and article number of the page- notarized! I bet you can’t find it, go ahead and try-do it. You can’t because it’s false!! Your lies will catch up to you GOP/tea, indep…. but for now continue to be the puppet feeding lies for a vote!! That’s what this party does is lie and mislead for greed, power, self preservation and a vote while the US suffers. Your comments to OWS by GOP/tea-indep., get a job take a bath!! Defecation in the park, noise level really, stated by Mayor of NY, “UNFOUNDED ALLEGATIONS,” in other words no proof of it!! That’s all you do is lie and mislead! Do you think those kids liked to be in the cold, on the ground. They are educated people fighting for a cause but of course you would not know about that.- Your cause is limited government gee I wonder why? Correction I already know! Look at the current Congress you put in!! Any one who follows the tea must be uneducated or have an alternative agenda. The thought of you all of you GOP/tea, indep. running the whole country is the worst, sickest idea in the history of the United States of America!
To the Media, regular New Yorkers push back on OWS. What do you mean.. some New Yorkers responded negatively out of identified proven 1000's of New Yorkers who are with OWS!!! Shame Media, misleading is not good!!
Just got off a blog on Facebook. It stated a man passed away in the hosptial an hour ago injured by the NYC cops this morning. Any news???
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LYNN SWEET The scoop from Washington Ten giant U.S. companies avoiding income taxes: Sen. Bernie Sanders list By Lynn Sweet on March 27, 2011 9:54 AM | No Comments WASHINGTON---With federal income taxes due in a few weeks, Sen. Bernie Sanders, the Vermont independent allied with Democrats, on Sunday released a list of ten big profitable U.S. companies paying little or no taxes. Sanders wants to close the loopholes that make this tax avoidance legal. Some people call the income tax system with generous loopholes for big companies corporate welfare or corporate entitlements. As Congress returns to work this week--after yet another break--to negotiate over big budget cuts--with social safety net programs facing reductions--Sanders is pushing for corporations to pay more of a fair "share."
The Bernie Sanders Ten, per release....
1) Exxon Mobil made $19 billion in profits in 2009. Exxon not only paid no federal income taxes, it actually received a $156 million rebate from the IRS, according to its SEC filings.
2) Bank of America received a $1.9 billion tax refund from the IRS last year, although it made $4.4 billion in profits and received a bailout from the Federal Reserve and the Treasury Department of nearly $1 trillion.
3) Over the past five years, while General Electric made $26 billion in profits in the United States, it received a $4.1 billion refund from the IRS.
4) Chevron received a $19 million refund from the IRS last year after it made $10 billion in profits in 2009.
5) Boeing, which received a $30 billion contract from the Pentagon to build 179 airborne tankers, got a $124 million refund from the IRS last year.
6) Valero Energy, the 25th largest company in America with $68 billion in sales last year received a $157 million tax refund check from the IRS and, over the past three years, it received a $134 million tax break from the oil and gas manufacturing tax deduction.
7) Goldman Sachs in 2008 only paid 1.1 percent of its income in taxes even though it earned a profit of $2.3 billion and received an almost $800 billion from the Federal Reserve and U.S. Treasury Department.
8) Citigroup last year made more than $4 billion in profits but paid no federal income taxes. It received a $2.5 trillion bailout from the Federal Reserve and U.S. Treasury.
9) ConocoPhillips, the fifth largest oil company in the United States, made $16 billion in profits from 2007 through 2009, but received $451 million in tax breaks through the oil and gas manufacturing deduction.
10) Over the past five years, Carnival Cruise Lines made more than $11 billion in profits, but its federal income tax rate during those years was just 1.1 percent.
below, release from Sen. Sanders....
Tax Time? Not for Giant Corporations
Sanders Calls for Shared Sacrifice
BURLINGTON, Vt., March 27 - While hard working Americans fill out their income tax returns this tax season, General Electric and other giant profitable corporations are avoiding U.S. taxes altogether.
With Congress returning to Capitol Hill on Monday to debate steep spending cuts, Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) said the wealthiest Americans and most profitable corporations must do their share to help bring down our record-breaking deficit.
Sanders renewed his call for shared sacrifice after it was reported that General Electric and other major corporations paid no U.S. taxes after posting huge profits. Sanders said it is grossly unfair for congressional Republicans to propose major cuts to Head Start, Pell Grants, the Social Security Administration, nutrition grants for pregnant low-income women and the Environmental Protection Agency while ignoring the reality that some of the most profitable corporations pay nothing or almost nothing in federal income taxes.
Doesn't matter, tax them to hell and they will pass the cost on to you, the 99% in the form of higher prices. You kooks just don't get it.....Jesus
you will see, change is coming, the people have spoken.... peace
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That is a flawed argument. Businesses set the prices for their goods and services based on market demand vs supply at a price that the market will bear. If the price is too high, then demand (and sales) decreases, and vice versa. Customers aren't going to care about some company whining about how much they are taxed, but they will take their business elsewhere if the prices are not acceptable.
It's not a problem for me that people are rich, but for the big companies that are making billions and run our government and pay no taxes and get hand outs and bailouts from the government and move all their jobs over seas, that is unjust, if I or we pay 28 to 38 % in taxes( I don't know the exact amount ) Please let everyone pay that amount if they are in the upper income of the world, they don't need to pay less than us.
I like the first live update, "8:40 pm: Overheard near Brooklyn Bridge - NYPD officer to another "Whaddaya say we occupy the van?" from @theother99" - gives you an idea of how the opposition is starting to wear down.
Confusion Reins...Yall got a good thing going there.Don't screw it up. Yall need a plan. End the Fed. Take back your city/state. Think of the continental congress. They were considered terrorists. Patrick Henry was hanged.Ben Franklin told the Congress: we all hang together or we all hang separately.I think this is much more than a "movement" yall. History repeats.....,A Shame the founders aren't here to see this. States Rights (yaa I said it.) is the only way to fix this thing.
Thanks to all those protesting :)
I propose a song... please play it at 12:01 AM... wherever you are protesting... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FM3KR9dEOk&feature=channel_video_title Thanks for your will and fortitude!!
What's next? How does OWS keep the momentum after this momentuous day? I am fortunate enough to work in the area and I've watched the movement develop since Day 1. Zuccotti is going to be completely on lock down for a while so what's next?
Get out of tents and into small home groups...build a movement from your friends up...Occupy the Internet...Occupy your living rooms...Occupy the library...organize...resist...resist...resist...then do something massive...so the world can no longer ignore our single voice. Make alliances with publishers...create our own media...our own press...turn up the volume through music...social networks...magazines...apps...permeate alternative media...garner progressive support.
OWS has made some good points and drawn attention to itself. It's established a platform to speak from that people will listen to..or at least pay some attention to. Probably a good time to use the window of opportunity discuss some realistic solutions to problems.
The media is so funny, this one news caster channel 11 the person who works with Craig said, now that the movement is over....." are you kidding! Its embedded in us now!! Then states they will "occupy wall street today, on Thursday by taking over trains..." But I thought it was over as you stated!! Ridiculous, so in a hurry to silence OWS! Funny we are just getting started!! OWS Good Job!! Good job, this fight continues and will not ever stop...Just in case OWS is not going anywhere it is not a movement but a REVOLUTION that is here to stay that continues to grow!
I propose an Action for all OWS supporters: Wear a Yellow Armband.
Wear it everywhere as a show of support for OWS. This can be done by everyone, including those who can't make it to march on the streets, who can't risk arrest or physical abuse. It will carry the message of support and start conversations in Offices, Homes, Schools, and Restaurants. Let the world see just how many people support OWS. Let us find each other in places outside of the GAs and the Camps.
i like yellow too. it's optimistic. it's sunny. it suggests the 'dont tread on me' flag. a flag others assign to the teaparty but i argue was never theirs to claim. (conservatives were monarchists who opposed the revolutionary war and wanted to remain with england.)
but i also like yellow because it stands for caution, like on a light signal. caution as in "you better listen to us and fix this corruption or things will get worse." we're the yellow canary in the coal mine. we are here to signal something is wrong with the country.
Yeah - yellow armband - no negative connotations there
In other conversations Blue has been suggested. Is there a block to the revision of the color to blue? Regardless, we would benefit from being able to see the support for our ideas via a common sign in the 'commons' (people and places, as opposed to all the brave folks in the streets where there is little doubt there is support)
Are there? I did not want to co-opt the Arab Spring's Green. I wanted a bright color. And I saw a lot of Yellow strips, like caution tape, on OWS fliers and such. Please suggest an alternative?
I think green is appropriate. I think it shows solidarity with the Arab Spring.
They use green to symbolize Islam, but really it's the strength of faith and solidarity. There's no problem with us using it.
Yellow is used by the "support our troops" people. Blue is used by the Democratic Corporate Party. Red is used by the Republican Corporate Party. Pink... I'm not wearing that. Purple? I'm not sure if this has a meaning. Maybe Donatello from the Ninja Turtles? Orange, there's an Orange movement among eastern European countries.
GREAT job OWS!! What an impact! PROUD Conservative, no, none, non affiliated with the Republican GOP/tea, ashamed. We recruit societies low percentage who talk about minorities ( Asians, Blacks, Gays, Latinos-Italian, Hispanics, Mexicans, Muslims, Jews, Indians), then elect a new congress that block all with no benefit too this great nation and these people blame him? Honestly, blaming the current Chief, really. You people put the current new congress in and what have they done, not one thought on you, when will you learn. The current president has done more in 3 years than the last president has done in 8. First thing when in with new Congress attack Social Security (that was funny) the majority of the tea are Seniors the GOP does not care. Stifling progress with blocking every bill that could benefit the U.S. because it affects the taxing (by a small margin with little affect, to the 1% salaries-what minus a servant!) and most importantly to gain control for a vote! You have got to be uneducated if you stand behind the GOP/tea, indep (limited or no government) no progress but a step back to the United States of America! OWS tactics are good and just. I believe!! OWS Keep up your message, the world hears you.
The tea has got to be the worst party in history! At least OWS is doing it for a true cause! You people actually stood up in council meetings over false accusations on Heath care reform. Death panel, really..make a copy of the actual page, paragraph and article number of the page- notarized! I bet you can’t find it, go ahead and try-do it. You can’t because it’s false!! Your lies will catch up to you GOP/tea, indep…. but for now continue to be the puppet feeding lies for a vote!! That’s what this party does is lie and mislead for greed, power, self preservation and a vote while the US suffers. Your comments to OWS by GOP/tea-indep., get a job take a bath!! Defecation in the park, noise level really, stated by Mayor of NY, “UNFOUNDED ALLEGATIONS,” in other words no proof of it!! That’s all you do is lie and mislead! Do you think those kids liked to be in the cold, on the ground. They are educated people fighting for a cause but of course you would not know about that.- Your cause is limited government gee I wonder why? Correction I already know! Look at the current Congress you put in!! Any one who follows the tea must be uneducated or have an alternative agenda. The thought of you all of you GOP/tea, indep. running the whole country is the worst, sickest idea in the history of the United States of America!
Good JobGOP/tea is doing worst now with blocking what would help the US and all for greed, retaining power and a vote, WHILE WE SUFFER. Which is not an opinion but fact!! Look at the new CURRENT CONGRESS!!! PROUD Conservative, no, none, non affiliated with the Republican GOP/tea, ashamed. We recruit societies low percentage who talk about minorities ( Asians, Blacks, Gays, Latinos-Italian, Hispanics, Mexicans, Muslims, Jews, Indians), then elect a new congress that block all with no benefit too this great nation and these people blame him? Honestly, blaming the current Chief, really. You people put the current new congress in and what have they done? Not one thought on you, when will you learn. The current president has done more in 3 years than the last president has done in 8. First thing when in with new Congress attack Social Security (that was funny) the majority of the tea are Seniors, the GOP doesn’t care, fact. Stifling progress with blocking every bill that could benefit the U.S. because it affects the taxing (by a small margin with little affect, to the 1% salaries-what minus a servant! ). But, most importantly to gain control anyway possible with stifling, lying, misleading all for a vote! Just in case the 1% are very small yet those who receive 3 cents on a dollar support them settle, like cattle! You have got to be uneducated if you stand behind the GOP/tea, indep (who support limited or no government). No progress party but a step back to the United States of America! OWS tactics are good and just. I believe in them, good job-standing up for America!! OWS Keep up your message, the world hears you. ! Good Job OWS! Awesome-Energized
I always thought Fox News was bad on facts but OWS is showing they are even worse with some of the updates being posted here.
"Simultaneously, Occupiers took to multiple subway stations in all five boroughs."
There are no subways in Staten Island.
What an idiotic comments.This movement is about our nations future.Look around,open your eyes.We have 200 million poor, unemoployed,underemployed people.That is a 70% of our population,and without ashame, you are posting stupid comments.
http://www.amazon.com/Throw-Them-All-Out-ebook/dp/B0062N35X8/ref=pd_rhf_se_p_t_3 Here is an article on how the congress and their cohorts are becoming rich while screwing the American public. For those that say were not accomplishing anything , open your eyes, Every thing I read or hear on the new's has to do with thing's talked about buy the protester's, We are definitely being listened to by the so called leaders of this United States Of America.
Protests are fine, BUT, we need to refocus our efforts on getting candidates who support the cause to want to run, get nominated and to vote them in, the same as how the Tea Party did it.
3,000 job cuts fron CITIBANK. lets support 99% CEO and top brass will get million $$$$ bonuses.
This is amazingly great. This is really so great. My heart is bursting with pride today. Thanks to everyone who is fighting to take back our country from the oligarchy. Be safe everyone, you are marching in a state of magnificent grace.
I am listening to Democracy Now! and it is clear that the cops should be on the side of the demonstrators.
The SHOULD be on our side. But it seems not in NYC. Some cops may regret this decision later!
Do I hear a hint of violence?
Propably means they will regret it later when they are in a quiet space with only their thoughts to keep them company, reflection can bring some of the strongest regret.
Of course that's what it means, silly me ;-)
Or? Does it?
no, you hear him pointing out that they are on the wrong side of history and will regret their violent actions against obviously just behavior. Even if you disagree with people, freedom of speech is 1st.
[Removed]
Freedom of speech is important and I don't see why you think I wouldn't agree. I have no idea why you bring that up.
It still I hear a hint and see a tint of violence in that statement. Your explanation fails to move me.
You see what you want to see.
I see what my brain has interpreted. I still hear a hint and see a tint of violence. Your rhetoric leaves me unshaken.
You carry the violence within yourself.
The goal must be clear.
Not just 99% -
Politicians have the real power not corporations that bribe them.
Gotta go after them and learn who are the good politicians and the lazy - on the take from lobbyist fools...
Push for internet voting. No more congressman or sentors voting on bills they can write them up but we vote via internet...That could be a start..
Take the protest to Washington soon. All cities converge ON WASHINGTON!!!
one step at a time, one step at a time :)
the idea that one group holds"Real Power" is a myth.
the people have the real power the corporations have the real power the politicians have the real power the media have the real power
When we focus on one source of power the corruption seeps through another hole. When we focus with solidarity and critique of all power we fight corruption in all faces.
watching NBC 4 live coverage right now, helicopter shot of foley square, pretty amazing!
继续下去! ! 您可以击败纽约警察局和其他反对,在进行! 爱的运
thats sick
keep it up OWS, my mother and father also have been threatend by these grimey mortgage companys that my family will be thrown out of there home of 25 years, my response "over my dead body". im willing to give my life so my family does NOT go homeless and raise awareness to this (for lack of a better word) epidemic!!!
Good on you. Do you have an Occupy Movement in Charlotte? There is a girl from Charlotte in our OccupyEdinburgh group.
"Everyone is watching OWS".
Our turn next, I guess. The Banking Executives are thieving everywhere.
yes i went for soldiarity today, first time i went by the way, i just think all the ows movements around the nation need more organization and direction, but agian i kno this movement is in its infancy
Scientists all agree the earth,at this rate of pollution, doesn't have much longer.So what is the point to any arguement that isn't about how we fix that which our grandparents fucked up.1st priority being-how do we get enough political power to start making changes to the ways $ is utilized.I say we just take all of everybanks $ as the governing party of US. It would be treason for anyone w enough $ to help who doesnt give it all up for US, in order to help secure any future at all. Don't you think? On the brink of the Earth's destruction for the wealthy to keep their $GOD is them saying "that"is more important than civilization itself. If you ask me the punishment for that should be banishment without even a loin cloth into a desert environment w no water no suntan lotion just a quart of oil so they can remember why they are there for the rest of their short ass soon to be living in agonizing pain rapist here of forests and seas, who knows what else.LETS COMMUNICATE WHAT IS IMPORTANT, NOT WETHER WE SHOULD BE "socialists". Focus people, how do we clean up this mess and stop adding to it
Noone even knows what to do because there are too many(like every single person) with ideas and thoughts from their own knowledge and experience about what knid of gov. we should fight for? Come on now people "Socialism"is that actually up for debate? See what I mean about spies. we need to pick a leader-ME- then trust in ME todo what is best for not only you n your family/loved ones, but also the Earth's continued existence, our financial and economic growth/prosperity,education for children and adults,foreign and domestic violence and/or un-humanitarian action. For these we need to fight for a leader who can decide, over all of our quarelling, what to do about all these important aspects, keeping the opinions of all of us in mind, then making the right decision based on what is the least harmful to our planet. what everyone seems to forget in this battle for justice is that we are fighting for "control" so that we can be sure to do all we can to save Earth=continued existence of mankind
Not only Expect police brutality but go past there in time and expect police to be aware of their brutality eenough to swap sides or leaders. Since the police are a part of US the 99%ers but their bosses our ELECTED officials, are run by the 1%ers. So the police have a more difficult time realizing their place in the society.We must forgive them until they join us,and we must know they will eventually.
no-one "took' any bridge. you cant take a bridge. this isn't hamberger hill. If we want to "take back"anything(which is impossible for we never had it to begin w), the only way to do that is by taking control of OUR government. That means sleeping in any tent anywhere does alert some people who dont watch the main-stream media but get their news from "RT",so what. In order to get what we are after we need freal people to run for and win "ELECTED" office within our government. Unless we are just trying to shut down the entire economic system of US, which I would be fine w/,because I live in the woods off of mushrooms and grasses,yet everyone else who lives in the real world will have to start all over again(learning to live off what our mother earth provides,since corporations along w all financial institutions will be gone.AIM AT the correct target-Pennsylvania Ave. not Wall Street. Now that we have united, I believe that we need to pay very close attention to WHO we are(their are probably spies already here),and WHAT EXACTLY we want and how we are going to get it. WECAN ALL YELL AT THE TOP OF OUR LUNGS AT DONALD TRUMP BUT THAT WILL NOT MAKE HIM SHARE HIS LOLLYPOP. WE NEED "HIM"TO NEED US IN ORDER FOR HIM TO EVEN LISTEN. (No offense to Trump just using his name as a reference to the "1%"
Why not take a bridge that is not the brooklyn bridge? One that isn't connected to the hipster mecca where your parents subsidize your cost of living so you can be full time ass hats?
lets take over the homes of the ones who put us in the streets and of the ones who stands in the way of the movement
Banging drums and shitting in the gutter is the work of heroes. Bravo, any credibility this movement had is now dead because it was executed by thoughtless clowns with no plan of action. You could've done something great. Instead you cost NYC 10 million tax dollars that was paid by... Wait for it... Your 99%
Banging drums and shitting in the gutter is the work of heroes. Bravo, any credibility this movement had is now dead because it was executed by thoughtless clowns with no plan of action. You could've done something great. Instead you cost NYC 10 million tax dollars that was paid by... Wait for it... Your 99%
Banging drums and shitting in the gutter is the work of heroes. Bravo, any credibility this movement had is now dead because it was executed by thoughtless clowns with no plan of action. You could've done something great. Instead you cost NYC 10 million tax dollars what was paid by... Wait for it... Your 99%
OWS comrades "Socialism works fine till you run out of the other person’s money". ~Margaret Thatcher
will you post information about the band that played on foley square? democracynow played a short clip. a longer youtube video would be great.
WHAT ABOUT FANNIE MAE AND FREDDIE MACK? They received the biggest federal bailout of the financial crisis!And nearly $100 million of those tax dollars went to lucrative pay packages for top executives. The top five executives at Fannie Mae received $33.3 million in 2009 and 2010, while the top five at Freddie Mac received $28.1 million. And each company has set pay targets of as much as $17 million for its top managers for 2011. That's a total of $95.4 million, which will essentially be coming from us, the taxpayers. Fannie CEO Michael Williams and Freddie CEO Charles Halderman are on track for 2011 are about $6 million a piece. They are going to be asking this administration for up to another 100 billion in bailouts to keep them on top. WHERE IS THE OWS OUTRAGE WITH FREDDIE AND FANNIE!!!!
Something to think about... God gave us the planet Earth for all of our needs. The 1% stole it from us and said they'd lease it to us if we pay them money that they would lend us. I don't want your money, a mortgage, to slave for some company that does nothing loving for mankind. I don't want your repression and creating forced lack onto the Earth. You, the 1%, defy all that god intended and I DEMAND THAT YOU, THE 1%, STAND DOWN, NOW, AND GIVE BACK WHAT GOD GAVE US ALL!!!
A bunch of Cro Magnons found themselves on a planet filled with other beings intent on eating them. Luckily, some prior one percenter figured out spears and arrows, and other one percenters eventually came along and figured out how to make a place like America where almost all of us have it pretty damned easy. Who are you to come along 100,000 years later and invoke God in support of your demand for a bigger handout? What did you contribute to that gradual accumulation of survival techniques that all of us rely on?
Apparently, you missed the point of my post. That's what happens when you're a hired supporter of the 1% or are someone who benefits off of the backs of the poor with a superiority complex and they have a single minded agenda to argue in favor of everything unethical and unloving. Not everyone is going to understand it as truth, ethics, and compassion cannot enter the mind of a person who soul is lost.
I am not any of those things, but I can spot a worthless hustler when I see one. Why don't you get on that hot-line to God and ask him whether all things on Earth are just as He divinely ordained, including your status as a loser. Alternatively, assuming that God marked a little patch of Earth down to the Great and Glorious Uz at the time of creation, it may only be that you are looking for it in the wrong country. Ask God for a map to somewhere else.
My mistake, a hater of freedom then? Then again the definition of 'freedom' is the freedom to choose to be slaves to the 1% or get off the planet, which is a direct form of psychological abuse. Psychological abuse is the tactic of people who support the current economic system. Name calling & labeling vs. seeing the truth, sarcasm, and orders/suggestions that belittle legitimate concerns of the majority.
You seem to be the one incapable of moving on from frothing at the mouth to dialogue and analysis. If I have it right, whatever you, as God's latest prophet, declare to be the truth is the truth.
Please clarify your concerns. Are you out to evenly divide all of America's wealth among 300 million of God's children or to evenly divide all of the wealth on Earth among 7 trillion people. Even you would be in for a pay cut under the latter regime.
I believe you just made the point that you do not want to live in a fair society where all people are treated and are given equal access to everything no matter what. You've made you're point. No sense in arguing.
I want to live in a fair society where everyone earns whatever he or she may get. Your refusal to engage and speak to the question whether a 7-trillion-way split would be appropriate, proves that you are nothing but a fraud and a hustler who has no place invoking God's name in support of your current scam. Curl up with your crack pipe, and thank God for the food stamps that you have.
That's because there's only about 7 billion people on the planet. Not 7 trillion! I'm not going to answer a question from someone who shows no respect for other people, calls them names because they didn't engage your argumentative and abusive nature. As a spiritual teacher, psychologist, and metaphysician, I will be volunteering my time in a new society that is fair for all for free as my contribution to society and so I will be helping people like you learn how to love yourself and others for the benefit of the whole of society.
I regret the typos. Don't use that as an excuse for not responding to the point. Will you reduce your own current standard of living to achieve planet-wide equality?
Your "job description" only confirms what I discerned on day one - hustler and scam artist and brazen blasphemer. Presumably, the people in the new society will be more happy and empowered and less in need of your "nurturing." Will you then, finally, be prepared to do some actual work - something that actually adds something to the communal pot - instead of continuing to be a parasite?
I think the real source of your bitterness and hatefulness may be that no one from the 1% has ever bought your brand of bullshit, and you have been confined to exploiting the poor. A single wealthy dupe would have been all that was required to stop your whining.
In a society where everyone is equal the standard of living raises equally indefinitely. In today's society, the standard of living lowers to the point where life cannot be sustained. So your question is NA to my point. In addition, why indulge an argument that is negative? I'm looking to the positive and you'll call me names to try to coerce me and/or other people's opinion of what I'm saying.
Your last two paragraphs have no basis in reality or truth. I will not continue any more discourse with you as you can show no respect, maturity, or intelligence. Sorry. Name call me if you want but that doesn't affect truth any.
Drop the quasi-mystical bullshit. The standard of living is clearly controlled by, among other things, the number of relevant participants and the quantity of relevant resources, physical and technological. You started off on how God gave "the Earth" to "all," yet you clearly do not want to share equally with all of your fellow earthlings. You only want a bigger piece of the American pie.
Your economics are also nonsense. A lot of primitive societies have a lot of equality of misery with no evidence of any rising standard of living. When I was a young American, the poor people had little food, no shoes and their asses were hanging out of the holes in their pants. Notwithstanding all of the "inequality" that you purport to rage against, the standard of living of the poor people in America has steadily improved over time.
Let's see, the top 1% - so, people like Bill Gates & Warren Buffet, right? People who have worked very hard and worked very smart to get where they're at. People who are taxed very heavily and pay nearly half of their personal income in taxes. People who have created countless jobs. People who have donated and continue to donate to charity despite losses under the burden of the current economy. People like this are guilty of nothing. They've worked very hard and are very intelligent people who have EARNED what they have.
Without them, consider how many more people would not have jobs and would not be able to support themselves or their families.
This country was founded on the belief that people have their personal freedoms, to choose whatever religion they wish and practice it, to be able to be a worker or possibly a leader in industry or to create an industry and the opportunity to be financially rewarded for it. Remember why we fought a revolutionary war? Taxes were too heavy in case nobody remembered.
I don't believe that the 1% is to blame on their own. It is the poor decisions and pork barrel spending in WASHINGTON that has gone on for far too long. It's the misappropriation of funds - starting from when social security was an optional item and then became mandatory - and then was raided by our government to finance a war. It's progressed over the years to where we can't blink without being taxed.
In my opinion, the 1% should be lauded all the more for their success despite the burden of un-needed government regulations and taxes that are doing nothing but making it harder for EVERYONE. When the government inhibits the growth of businesses by taxation, then the businesses suffer and so do their workers. When roads and places of commerce are cut off, businesses suffer and so do their workers.
Our Bill of Rights grants everyone freedom of speech, not obstruction of others or of industry or of people's ability to get to work so that they can feed their families. Those people have rights too and when they are infringed upon, the police do have a job to do. I just hope that they do it with no more force than what is required.
Consider the facts and speak freely and protest what you will without infringing upon the rights of others.
Best wishes in life to everyone.
A song for OWS... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FM3KR9dEOk&feature=channel_video_title
Someone please describe to me what your ideal outcome of this movement is for you personally, for you, your family, and your close friends. For example, describe what you would like your average day to look and feel like 4 years from now if your goals are attained.
"The World is with Us". Don't believe the headlines. Yes, the world is watching, but not in awe.
When you are only about seeking attention for yourself, when you are high on yourself (drugs?) and your rights and the cameras are on you, you delusionally think you are heroes for a cause.
Walk outside your small circle and you will see the world is watching but they are not with you. Because of the actions of anarchists among you, you are quickly becoming the destructive and self-destructing irrelevant 1%.
OWS, including the money grabbing unions, no longer represent the middle class or 99%.
I am of the radical 65% who work hard, don't depend on unions, pay taxes and invest in the lives of others.
What have you done today to make a difference in your world without harming others?
Yes, the world is watching, but not in awe.
"Occupy Earth" says it all. This is an international movement and there is only one earth. Let's remember Nature comes first! Not corporations!
Have there been any organized efforts to set message banners on highway overpasses at routes into the city: GSP, Turnpike, etc.? I'm thinking of one that would read:"Police want martial law" or "This is a facist state", given that the funds and training the police have received (since 9-11) to counter outside threats are being utilized now to put down our own our own populace.
Power to the People
Great work, guys. This is front page news everywhere here in the UK. The movement is slowly growing. Get out there and explain it to people. I was just talking to a businessman here in Edinburgh. He doesn't like the protest tents, but can't stand the fat cats either. He wants the protest to succeed.
I watched for hours yesterday on the livestream, even though it was some kid who couldn't hold his camera straight or steadyand kept panning so fast that the images were blurred, I thought it was great. It was possible to make out that there were people of all ages and different ethnic backgrounds. They were all determined to be loud but not offensive and swearing was minimal. There was a family atomosphere and I really thought it was amazing. The fact that it wasn't clear what exactly was happening was also good, because it showed that there not a small elite group directing operations it was just the will of the people, all the people. The amount of idiot comments on stream and on this page shows that a large part of the 99% are total idiots and you gotta feel sorry for them, hopefully in a society where everyone is really equal this people will learn to respect their fellow citizens. The real revolution needs to happen put in the country "Occupy the Land" and save it from the Vandalism that is "Intensive Agriculture" what we need is Fertile soil and food production. Permaculture scould be one answer. I am writing from near Florence Italy. All the best to you guys !!!
What does it matter you will just delete my post anyway.
http://patrioticmillionaires.org/
"They have take the bridge, and the western gate, we cannot get out. Drums, drums, drums in the deep...They are coming."
We are the 99%
To: Harrypairatestes2: Think about the NCAA, and how the emphasis on $$ for television rights has triumphed over so much. You think that isn't about exploitation for profit?? That's just one example of how corporations are dominating the flow of capital, to the disadvantage of most Americans.
Thanks so much for keeping the "fight" for a better future for the 99% alive. We will do as much we can in the West Coast. #Occupy Cal
the problem is that the percentage of graduates is increasing. 20 years ago a college education really meant something. now it's just an extension of high school. employers don't look at a diploma to the same degree anymore because everyone has one.
it's simple. supply and demand. not all grads are going to be in high demand all the time, that's just the way it goes right now. i had to change professions because of it. i evolved and adapted to my situation rather than complained about the system.
Awesome. Amazing. Beautiful! I Love you ALL! Thank you!!
Straight from top of the article: 7:06 pm: Police scanners estimate the crowd at 32,650 people. Reported by @jstetser 7:01 pm: Entrance of Brooklyn Bridge City Hall station closed. 7:00 pm: One source gives around 2,000 protesters on Brooklyn Bridge
Damn that was quite the boost in numbers in such a short peroid of time!! I these numbers. I was watching live stream today an a lady announced that 50000 people were watching this morning. I looked at the ticker and it said 5000....
There were 30,000 people in Foley Square, but the NYPD was only allowing a trickle of those people to leave the south end of the square, and these were the 2,000 people that walked south and then over the bridge...
thank you thank you thank you to all those who showed up today... you are heroes!
It would be great to NOT buy anything from anyone advertising on FOX news Channel
Below, this is what seems unfair, thank GOD for the Brave 99% occupiers !!!!
What about OWS buttons and Tshirts we could buy to show our support?
Make your own. OWS is not about selling stuff.
If you're serious about showing support, put a sign in your window or a sticker on your car. Engage people in intelligent discourse and encourage people to empower themselves by writing letters, sending emails, and making calls to their legislators demanding they GET OFF of trying to regulate women's sexuality, outlawing people's lifestyle choices, or preaching America's global dominance, and to FOCUS on REAL problems and create REAL solutions.
We can begin with demands to:
A) repeal corporate "personhood' OR ratify an amendment to the constitution stating only people can be people.
B) eradicate lobby money-- make it illegal for anyone to give money or gifts to lawmakers.
C) cap individual campaign donations at $200 or less
D) bring back cap and trade
E) create a federal WPA-like program to put people to work repairing and building our nation's infrastructure
F) demand that if corporations want to sell their products in America, they need to pay taxes in America (If they then didn't value America as a profitable market, fine. Leave. Domestic entrepreneurs will innovate to fill the vacuum.)
G) end corporate welfare and subsidies for corporations that turn massive profits
H) end most farm subsidies
I) outlaw high-fructose corn syrup
J) admit pizza is not a vegetable
The list could go on infinitely, but seriously there's so much people could do. It's not cool to be complacent and think it'll all work out because "they'll" fix things. YOU are the "they" now.
getmoneyout.com
movetoamend.org
moveyourmoneyproject.org
avaaz.org
independentvoting.org
americanselect.org
If you're not part of the process, you're part of the puppet.
Could someone post a link to a video or photo of the NYC crowd of 30,000? Would be nice to see the whole group shot.
seems this is the only feed working now: http://www.ustream.tv/occupycolleges. Don't know why.
Why does OWS demonize the police?
Because they deny us our right to free assembly. Because they pepper spray 80 year-old women and break the ribs of Nobel Prize winning poets (this happened in Berkeley a few days ago).
Haha. You have no idea what your talking about and your inaccurate statements are dangerous. No one is denying your right to assemble. However, they are denying you your right to setup tents, smoke pot and cause trouble. The 84 year old woman did not get pepper sprayed. You wont be able to open your eyes with pepper spray in them. Look at the photos, her eyes were not even red and wide open. It was a setup picture.
Oh yeah, it's really the pot smoking they are concerned about. That's what's got them out in their riot gear. Nice one, hotrod. And the police behaved really well at Berkeley when, apart from beating peacefully demonstrating students and forcing them to disband (not denying the right to assemble? really?), they pulled a senior professor to the ground by her hair and stamped on her. Read her lucid account of the problem with the police: http://utotherescue.blogspot.com/2011/11/why-i-got-arrested-with-occupy-cal-and.html Or look at the Youtube footage from Oakland.
In support of the efforts here is a song that is not for sale... made for the OWS movement... thanks! Please pass it on... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FM3KR9dEOk&feature=channel_video_title
Could someone please verify crowd numbers as all new outlets are far short of what I am reading.....
I was just watching CBS evening news and they said that there were HUNDREDS of protestors?! Such blatant lies!
Tim Pool arrested according to the live feed.
I'm guessing maybe 4,000 to 5,000 people.
My school is on the base of the verizon building!!!
The 99% Bat Signal. http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/8513/46988385.png
I'm so proud of all of you. You are bringing light to so many things. And you are a light unto other nations of the Occupy movement.
Maybe I have missed it but what is being brought to light?
KEEP UP THE PRESSURE!! The only way you, OWS, all will make a difference is if you affect the day to day operation or flow of life, commerce, and or government. As i once witnessed in France, their government wanted to raise fines, tolls, taxes, etc. on all commercial truck drivers and trucking companies. What happened next was amazing. All French trucking companies and drivers criss crossed their trucks across all major highways in their country, completely blocking and disabling the transportation of all goods throughout the country. This lasted for about a week or less, until the government backed down and reversed its decision. It worked because it takes a protest of this scale to affect change. Occupying a park, although symbolic, will never ever ever do anything to change how disgustingly our government and the rich control all our lives, and continue to make the rich richer. You need to regroup, and i mean regroup all OWS protesters from across the country to a few very large simultaneous protests because small groups here and there won't really make a statement and can be easily intimidated and disbanded by authorities. You need a board of smart leaders that can effectively communicate a set of real smart ideas and demands and better organize the movement. You need to continue to use social media as a way to communicate as they did in the middle east to oust their dictators. But most of all you need to make one massive statement by protesting and affecting the day to day operation or flow of life, commerce, and or government. It will be the only way that you will get the govt and the rich to stop.......turn around......and stare in awe at the EPIC scale of the movement before them, and realize that the time has come, and that We The People have officially drawn the line in the sand, and are no longer willing to play their game any longer. IT IS THE ONLY WAY. Thank you.
What happened to making public arrest of officers that get out of line and break the law, Get some plastic hand cuffs.
Don't stop the good fight until the banksters stand trial. We are all 100% behind the 99%.
national news, nbc and abc, lead-off with OWS. cbs has OWS as second story. major coverage!
Who is this United New York??? Are they trying to co-opt this movement? OWS-- is that cool with you?
We're not entirely sure who they are, we're not entirely even sure what they're doing, apparently trying to steer the march in a specific direction...
New R&D funded by our tax dollars that are devoted to Homeland Security projected to grow globally for the purpose of developing non lethal weapons to subdue civilians. Watch Democracy Now! This is not our government unless we make it so.
So we get arrested when we walk on the the road. And I get we'd get arrested for driving on the sidewalk.
But surely we can cycle or drive on the road, at least in circles, can't we?
KEEP UP THE PRESSURE!! The only way you, OWS, all will make a difference is if you affect the day to day operation or flow of life, commerce, and or government. As i once witnessed in France, their government wanted to raise fines, tolls, taxes, etc. on all commercial truck drivers and trucking companies. What happened next was amazing. All French trucking companies and drivers criss crossed their trucks across all major highways in their country, completely blocking and disabling the transportation of all goods throughout the country. This lasted for about a week or less, until the government backed down and reversed its decision. It worked because it takes a protest of this scale to affect change. Occupying a park, although symbolic, will never ever ever do anything to change how disgustingly our government and the rich control all our lives, and continue to make the rich richer. You need to regroup, and i mean regroup all OWS protesters from across the country to a few very large simultaneous protests because small groups here and there won't really make a statement and can be easily intimidated and disbanded by authorities. You need a board of smart leaders that can effectively communicate a set of real smart ideas and demands and better organize the movement. You need to continue to use social media as a way to communicate as they did in the middle east to oust their dictators. But most of all you need to make one massive statement by protesting and affecting the day to day operation or flow of life, commerce, and or government. It will be the only way that you will get the govt and the rich to stop.......turn around......and stare in awe at the EPIC scale of the movement before them, and realize that the time has come, and that We The People have officially drawn the line in the sand, and are no longer willing to play their game any longer. IT IS THE ONLY WAY. Thank you.
What is occurring in NYC, needs to occur simultaneously in DC around the Capitol. PLEASE tell all other OWS chapters around the DC area to descend on DC as well!! Block as much infrastructure as possible!!
No matter whether or not one supports the OWS movement, for this substantial upswelling of protest, bespeaks that there are serious problems that we all must face. Yes, there are those who have motives far removed from any productive intent, but I must support those who are protesting as they are involved and trying to do something to wake this country up to the loss of the middle class and the growing poverty. My sincere hope is for all to follow up with VOTES. To simply protest and then not exercise your right and privilege wastes your time and everyone elses.
Votes don't matter in most essential races anymore. The 1% puts who they want in those offices.
votes don't matter? hmmm that's an interesting train of thought. let me guess, you stopped voting because the legislative process is corrupt, broken and unfair.
I have expressed concern about occupying the subways and cautioned against it. However, IF you get the numbers to really Show that People are willing to turn out in Very Large Numbers, then I would have a different attitude. I just worry that you might try and do something dramatic, without the numbers to make it work. I cannot know from this distance. what I do hope is that you make the right call. Get it Right and I will be eating my words tomorrow as the headlines show that tens of thousands 'Occupied' New York. Get it Wrong and there will be an ignominious round up of a few hundred Protesters, followed by a huge Drop in Public Support. I wish you well and hope that you make the right Calls.
I doubt it. The Occupy Movement is now worldwide. I am not concerned with headlines. The movement is making the news, not the newspapers.
Lots of organisations, much bigger than OWS are 'Worldwide' Christianity is Worldwide, Islam is Worldwide, Cricket is Worldwide. So the fact that there are 'Occupations' Worldwide does not guarantee the success of the Movement. I was using the term 'Headlines' in a Generic sense. Of course, I meant the 'Media' in General and that Does matter to OWS. Most of the '99%' do not get their view of OWS from Livefeed. They get it from the popular 'Media'. So it does matter a great deal how you come across. If you make claims to 'Shut Down' Wall Street and then do not do so, people might take note of that. If you manage to Flood the Streets of New York with Tens of Thousands of People, the 'Media' notice that and will report it at length. On the other hand, if you try and make out that the crowd was 10 000 and it was only a couple of thousand, it might get virtually ignored. It is important to maintain the momentum of this Movement, otherwise it will run out of steam, Worldwide or not. The calls that are being made in New York will affect the standing of the OWS Movement both in the United States and Worldwide.
Just got home an hour ago and I went through Borough Hall. Subway system was A-O-K, but I did see protestors marching on my way home. They were peaceful and the subway was perfectly fine.
Sounds great and thanks for the update ! There will be ups and downs with all of this. I probably overreacted when I read about the subways being blocked. I just don't want to see people fall into a trap and feel powerless to help because I am sitting here over in the UK ! The numbers were not quite large enough, from what I could see overall but this does not matter too much. In the end, it will all come down to the Economy. If it goes down, like it looks it might do, then the People will turn out in much much larger numbers than today. We shall have to see !
There were lots and lots of people, but they weren't disrupting anything, they were going in one long trail coming down from the Brooklyn Bridge. I think the intent all along was to be visible in all 5 Boroughs, not to cause any harm, just to speak and tell stories and march.
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30,000 Take It Up The Ass.
I think I'll go block your front door for the next week so you can't go to work, because MY opinion is FAR more important than your insignificant little life, so you should make that sacrifice for MY demands. Sound fair? No? Then stay the FUCK off the subways you assholes!
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SEIU campaign finances. Who are you in bed with?
www.opensecrets.org/orgs/list.php?order=A
If I wanted a education I will work and pay for it myself if you expect the government to pay for education then you deserve what you get large bills and no job, I've worked all my life and I'm a proud worker in this great country.
I borrowed $40,000 to go to school and I pay them back $90,000. Its a scam to make debt slaves out of the young people.
I agree that this country is in a frightening place right now, but all you guys are doing is being disruptive to those who are working their ass off to try and pay their bills. And everytime someone has a comment like this one, nobody has anything to say. Nobody wants to explain how sleeping in a park, not showering, and keeping other poor schleps from getting around the city is helping anything. Where is your list of demands? Why not try and get a few specific things accomplished? I had school loans, I paid them off, why shouldn't the rest of you? I struggle to make ends meet, supporting myself and helping to support my two disabled parents... again, yes things need to change, but you can't just sit around like a bunch of spoiled brats looking for handouts.... change takes hard work, so get together, do some work, and try to make something real happen, something real besides crapping up the city.
I work my ass off--full-time AND freelance--and I still marched from Union Square to Foley Square and over the Brooklyn Bridge tonight after work. I'm down there all the time--what's your excuse?
"change takes hard work" -- exactly, working girl. Without the work that we are doing (huge coordinated effort of this protest, raising the issues, making our point in the face of media silence and police brutality -- these things are all hard work), NOTHING will change. When corporate interests control politics and media, the only option is to protest. If you agree that "things need to change" then stop complacently accepting the terms that are offered to you, and get out in the streets and protest, like they did in Egypt, like they did in Tunisia, like we are doing here now. How do YOU think change happens?
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The NYPD seems to earn America's love and affection about once a decade or so. I really can't wait for the police departments around the nation to lose what little patience they're showing you ignorant fools, and go all "Chicago 1968" on you worthless, entitled, dregs of society.
Your name is queerhater. You know what? Fuck you. Hard, and without lube.
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30,000? why not a Bajillion?
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8:46 pm 25,000 protesters are storming police barricades. Chanting we are the 99%. Reported by @jstetser
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For the past few weeks, I have come home everyday from work and the first thing i do is log in to see what new happened during that day at OWS. And at first, I thought that the OWS group was a departure from the standard naysayers of the world. I thought OWS was going to organize into a cohesive movement that would work for change. But the more I have watched, the more disappointed I have become. You have allowed the movement to become a haven for those who want a hand out rather than a step up. That is not what the United States is about. I didn't have a job when I graduated college 2 years ago, but I got one as a manager at a gas station. It didn't pay well but it allowed me to pay down some of my school debt and move out of my parents house. Now I am debt free. I think this is what the US is about. So do those of us who want to support you a favor. Make your own way, come up with a plan, get small business and local politics involved. Screaming that you got sold out will change nothing. I'm hopeful that your passion will inspire change, but as of now the only thing you are doing is embarrassing yourselves and those who want to support you. Also, recognize that 10000 people gathering in NY city isn't 72 percent support...
These "live updates" are full of crap. I was just there. Entrance of Brooklyn Bridge City Hall station was not closed. Hell, getting on and off the subway is easy because the NYPD is keeping those areas clear. In fact, the NYPD is doing a great job out there. No aggression or animosity. Just doing their job and all-in-all a peaceful protest. Really getting tired of these Hollywood-esque dramatic updates. Just like this morning when it was reported at 9:11am that the opening bell had been delayed. The bell rings at 9:30am!!! LOL!!
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The worst class war at play here is the civil war the 99 percent are fighting amongst themselves. If we are ever going to create change we have to understand and deal with the reality of human nature, that is to say greedy, selfish and stupid.
Read about the fight in the 99 percent club here:
www.josephcouture.com “It’s About Me, Stupid”
Too bad you numbskulls don't use all of this energy and frustration to find and back a few good representatives to carry your cause (once you actually figure out what it is) to Washington and your state capitals instead of, well, doing what you're doing.
10,000???? really? I think that's bit of an exaggeration! Stop trying to make this more than what it is. Pathetic
Wake up your dreaming.
in my post just moments ago - did you see the "bleak" turn-out in Portland today (less than 500 people) - and yet, msnbc was touting it as "a major movement in cities like L.A., Portland, and New York.
Nypd estimates over 25000 This is bigger than you think, Like i said wake up. Why don't you want a better country without the crooks in congress making laws that serve only their interest read this it is very informative. http://www.amazon.com/Throw-Them-All-Out-ebook/dp/B0062N35X8/ref=pd_rhf_se_p_t_3
shifty2 - i do NOT disagree that things are broken. i agree that this current/previous government (both Dem & Rep) have screwed things up terribly. HOWEVER, what do you want? Throw the constitution out the window and start over? This movement must mean something other than marches that don't ask for corrective action. If you all were asking for the Bank presidents to step down or the delegates who have been involved in insider trading (per the book you prescribed) - hell, it should be easy to get a conviction right?
Furthermore - does it bother you in the least that Adbuster and Anonymous are the founders and originators of this movement? These people want corporations gone and governments dismantled. How can you feel good about a Canadian group of pranksters, writers, actors, etc... influencing this movement?
It is not just those who govern that have screwed our country. It is the citizens who in their apathy and naiveness failed in their civic responsibility. Our campaign finance laws have been and will continue to be the doorway for completing the corporate takeover of our country..
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I support the spirit of the movement and I have to agree. Now I see "20,000" heading to the Brooklyn Bridge. There was maybe 2000-3000 protesters max this afternoon.
Sensationalism is no counter-balance to the media's recent efforts to marginalize OWS.
Okay Okay - I just logged into the live stream and I could be wrong lol....
Nice job NY!
I support "fractions" of the complaints {lobbyists, campaign reform, wall street issues} but don't think these activities will do anything. I'm more of a "vote em'" all out of office and start over.
Back to the #'s - you are correct - Sensationalism does not work. Did you notice how few people were in Portland today? terrible turn-out, yet - media report "major movements" around the country.
tisk tisk
Your not a bad person after all lol I Just hope some good comes out of it, As I am sure you do to. I am just watching and waiting to see what happens it's interesting to me. Im in Fl with a broken leg, Motorcycle accident.
get better soon... i hope good things come out of it as well.
take care
chuck scarborough and melissa russo gave pretty good coverage of OWS on News 4 NY fairly positive spin, except they changed "day of action" to "day of disruption", but otherwise the movement is dominating the newscast and news4 is sympatico with the message. nice coverage!
Lets see... first - 10,000? Not quite... between 1800 and 2400 - give or take people seen in the footage from above who were actually part of the whole thing and just trying to get to and from work and go about their daily lives...
Can't wait to see what they say about this tonight though... OWS that is... They failed to "Shut Down Wall Street" - it opened up and on time, and did what they did every day... OWS Failed to shut down the Subway system, failed to shut down the bridges... pretty much failed to do what they said their actual goal was...
Not quite a success in any form... but you DID get an opportunity to get arrested today, that was successful! So congratulations on that one! And you certainly were extremely successful to have the "Whole World Watch" as you once again made complete fools of yourselves (and continue to do so here on this website).
So far, the only thing OWS has accomplished is to have the whole world watch as a group of people complain about their college educations, high tuitions and blame banks and stock brokers for their own personal problems. You also accomplished showing the world how "well off people" (in comparison to most of the rest of the world), feel as though they don't have enough and want so much more. So BRAVO!
Do you think Wall Street blinked about it? Do you think even ONE banker or 1%er suddenly said "They are right! I need to be a good boy/girl!"... Not even close... what you got out of it was laughter as Wall Street said to you - you don't bother us...
You are gnats... you'll annoy... but you are not doing anythign to put any change in place... and will not institute change until you start to act appropriately and actually DO something that actually DOES bring about positive change.
Negativity - will not bring about Positive... it will only push the positive further away from you...
Have a great day folks!
The goal was never to block anything except the opening of the stock exchange. We never wanted to block subways. Besides that's the sideshow to the brooklyn bridge anyways.
Every article I read today and every protester that was interviewed stated they were looking to shut down the subways. I'm glad it did not work, since hard working people deserve the right to get home to their familes. And sick people have the right to get to doctors.... etc
That's misinformation we know the truly rich people we're protesting don't ride subways it was more for information and awareness. They wanted to recruit a bunch of people for the march on brooklyn bridge.
Anytime OWS puts up a number just divide by 5 and you'll get the number of people there
NBC 4 live giving good coverAge right now,the announcer said ten thousand plus people, good copter shots live
good coverage live on NBC 4 live right now
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Please visit the site : www.theindignados.org
Are you one of us ?
as much as i support the movement and it's efforts, enough is enough! time to clean up and move into the conversation that's been started.
http://littlebiggy.org/4660547
You don't represent the 99% when you come across as non-peaceful students protesting having to pay for a college education. How did this get to be such a focus - signs and chants? What happen to corporations buying the political process?
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PS don't lie - its not 10,000
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Next time send recon before you send protesters.
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A great article from Australia.
Quotes from the article:
"You want a fight?" a policeman yelled at the crowd.
"They've blocked everything off. This is what happens when you kick them out of the park: you stir a hornet's nest," said the officer, who would not provide his name.
Authorities "should have left them in the park. They wanted to disrupt Wall Street, and they've done it."
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/violence-rocks-occupy-wall-st-site/story-e6frg6so-1226198475927
Great job, guys. :)
We are applauding from OccupyEdinburgh.
What is occurring in NYC, needs to occur simultaneously in DC around the Capitol. PLEASE tell all other OWS chapters around the DC area to descend on DC as well!! Block as much infrastructure as possible!!
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You realize that blocking infrastructure is not the right way to enforce change, your just hurting everyday people. You need to get into the political system to effect change.
the political system is hurting everyday people its the only way
You relaize how ridiculous that form of logic is....basically your saying that the government is screwing people (you), so lets screw everybody else because it makes people (you) feel better, even though like I said before blocking infrastructure is not going to effect change, all your doing is causing pain for normal people like me and giving your movement a bad name
not because it makes anyone feel good. because change has to be forced to happen. if not, what you call normal will become obsolete.
ok will do
sure, with a name like yours i'm sure you'll be right on that
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What the protesters should do is teach the World,and the State of New York a lesson that will never be forgotten. I think if the 99% can shut down the Macy's Thanks Giving Day Parade it would show the rest of the World how strong you really are. Trust me everybody will really start believing,and taking things seriously BRING SNOOPY DOWN.
You know what should you do? make some money by gambling in wall st, then invest it in a mutual fund and go home and eat,sleep, watch FOXnews and your money will accumulate all the time. you do not need to do anything, your money will work for you.
30000 are you crazy! not even close
I was in Foley Square--the crowd was absolutely HUGE. And that's an NYPD number, anyway--it didn't come from OWS...
was it actually reported by NYPD or did someone say that they heard NYPD report this. By the way, do you have any idea how many people 30,000 is? We're talking about enough people to fill up 2 madison square gardens.
So was I - the police scanner line comes from a OWS twitter saying what they overheard
I would say 10k is closer - still genuinely impressive, but the inflating here is out of control
why won't police use plastic bullets on these scum
Because they're pussies...
to bad the 30,000 were not armed with automatic weapons....see what the police do then!
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Freedom of speech? OWS go home and give it a rest. stop using the freedom of speech as your umbrella, dare you to bare arm in the city that is the 2nd bill of right.
Most of you will be my servants one day...so get used to the beatings...ha, ha, ha!
look at you!! another dreamer....in just a couple of years you will be waking from your dream to the real nightmare.....good luck...
Occupy wall street...a great comedy for sure...you should see my giant SUV
Hey fools.....it's getting cold outside
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Can we move uptown a bit and protest at the Apple Store on 5th Avenue? I need a new iPhone and iPad so I can spread the word, but why should I have to pay the greedy Apple Corporation for them? These technological wonders should be distributed for free? Also, can someone pay for my cell phone bill?
i am part of the 99% and YOU DO NOT GET TO SPEAK FOR ME. socialism will never work for a country as big as our country. wake up and look around you. Spain is a socialist country and in far worse condition than we are. What happened to the innovative Americans that we once were? STOP SITTING AROUND AND GET ON WITH YOUR LIFE you really want to help people? stop all the talk and DO something think of ways to make and build jobs, think of ways to change our school systems, think of ways to change the system instead twiddling your thumbs waiting for someone else to do it. (which is probably what you have all done your whole life) Be innovators not road blocks.
It's a movement made up of the 99%, and for the 99%; it does not have to represent the views of every member of the 99%, although it does represent a very large majority of the 99%.
That's like saying a patient advocate is not a patient advocate because there is some minority of patients which disagree what what the advocate advocates. :)
PS. Capitalism does not work. Take a look at New York right now, that is the end result of free market capitalism run by large soulless entities known as multinational corporations; and it will get worse, and worse, and worse, because those companies do not care about your country except in so far as it provides a stable political environment to operate out of.
WOW. So OWS stand for what the 99% "want" but not for what the individual members of the 99% actually want. That sounds pretty "1%" of you
Your reading comprehension is a bit off today. OWS is a movement advocating for the 99%, obviously some members of the 99% might have different ideas. That does not mean they are not part of the 99%, nor does that alone does not invalidate a movement which does statistically speaking has the support of the vast majority of the population.
The odd exception does not necessarily invalidate a general principle. The Tea party could probably claim to be an advocate for the American tax payer, but I would bet money that not every tax payer agree with them.
They could... but they don't. You do. Lets think. If the Democrats claimed to be "advocating the 99%", would people who disagree with them be cinsidered democrats? Or would they, and everyone else, probably consider them something else. The basic logic of your movement is that becaseu 99% of America supports you, you must be right. Howver, and this is important, this is a democracy and if you don't actually represent/have the support of +50% of the population, you can't say you are right.
I disagree. I thought the 99% was a statement about income inequality? I'm not poor, but I am squarely in the 99% and I support the movement. Others in the same situation as me might mistakenly believe that if the rich pay less taxes they will be better off, and they are entitled to hold those views; it does not mean when I'm out holding my sign I'm not thinking of them tho.
Capitalism does work... That's how the rich have become so wealthy... I'm not sure where you get the idea that it doesn't
From the 1.5 billion people living below the poverty line. And from the other 3 billion people living close to it. And from the roughly 50 million people in this country who live at or below the poverty line. Capitalism actually works for about 1 million people and deludes about 500 million people into thinking it works even though it keeps taking away things other people gained for them (like weekends, the 40 hour work-week, and employer sponsored health insurance) by fighting against its most corrupting qualities.
You have overstated the significance of OWS in its current state. When police are being slashed with knives you no longer represent the 99%, you only represent the 0.001% that have made this no longer a peaceful movement. You have no correlation to the civil rights movement. Perhaps equating to French movements is much better as in their revolution they beheaded anybody deemed a threat to their efforts. It was hardly an example to follow. What should happen is that people are being educated on the purpose of the movement. What should happen is that you distance the movement from the 'entitlement claims' and focus on reducing the influence of money vs ideas on the political process. Cries for canceling all student debt or give us free college only make the movement to be a bunch of spoiled brats wanting a free ride. Not much sympathy from those in the 99% who paid their debts and worked their way through college. It is time for the movement to regroup and get the focus on the real issues.
Way to cherry pick news coverage. A police officer who has either beat up a few protesters, or complicit as his colleagues beat up on protesters, now needs a bandaid on his hand, so the movement is over. (Was it even caused by a knife? who knows)
You sound like you are are just looking for whatever pretext the MSM feeds you to decray OWS as something other than something you obviously didn't like to begin with.
@methinks - Well said brother. I agree with the protester's sentiment (in most cases), but the target is fuzzy at best and most likely unattainable. The so-called Elite are swirling their brandy, smoking their cigars and joking about this movement. None of them is quaking in their $1500 shoes. You want to scare them? Do what the Tea Party did. In no time at all they brought about tremendous change (for better or worse) in a startlingly short amount of time. They had a cohesive, obtainable goal. This rabble rousing is doing nothing except pissing off regular hard working Americans like myself.
The drum drives them crazy!
http://experiencetulsi.blogspot.com/
I'm making a ton of money in TEXAS ha, ha, haa...go eat your own lice...ha, ha, ha!
Yeah, but that means you have to LIVE IN TEXAS. LOL! Oh, wait--you don't get the joke, do you?
You don't eat your own lice but I bet you eat your CEO's shit!
The 99 percent is not a monolithic club of brotherly love. We fight and claw at each other to further our own selfish interests just like the greedy rich we complain about so much. We have to acknowledge and understand the flaws of our own people if we can ever hope to bring about real change.
Read about the struggle for survival amongst the 99 percent here: www.josephcouture.com “It’s About Me, Stupid”
An interesting article and worth a good read. However my own experience has given me a different perspective. I think sympathy and compassion comes from experience. When you are hurt, you know how others feel. I have never been cheated by a working class person, but I've been robbed by some insurance agent. I've been cheated by my bank, but not by any co-worker.
I think having absolutely no experience of the hardships that people face make many of the life-long privileged completely unsympathetic to the plights of others. While your story of the bus-drivers union shows the impact on regular people that a strike can have, it still remains unsolved what other means do they have to get a fair shake? Should they hope that their employer feels generous to treat them well and never speak up because the nature of their job?
The problem is not "selfishness" as you describe it, but that people have very few options to pick from in order to assure they don't get stepped on by others in positions of power.
Typical propaganda...no where near 10,000 people....maybe 2500 at the most.
Are you there? No, it's the major news sources who feed sheep like you propaganda.
if you had a job like many of us working long hours every day, you would have little spare time to piss and moan about how bad you have it in the greatest country of all time! BTW, I hear North Korea and China have the perfect system for people who don't support capitalism...MOVE THERE!!!!!
your company will move you to china /or your job .. if you dont act now.. and you wanna dis the only people who care?
Not true about China. They have a very good 'State Capitalist' system which is set to out produce the United States within the next few years. The United States also owes them around 3.5 Trillion Dollars and the Interest on that Loan is gratefully received by the Chinese Air Force, Navy and the Peoples Liberation Army to build up their Armed Forces. It is very generous of the United States to fund the Chinese Military in this way. So I agree with you, a move to China for an Unemployed American would be a pretty smart move. They could start off small by working in one of the many factories which are supplying the cheap manufactured goods to 'Wallmart' which the American Consumer buys thus supporting the Chinese Export Drive. Then they could progress to owning a Business and joining the many Chinese Millionaires who are actively encouraged to be Millionaires by the Chinese Communist Party. So I am glad that you are such a fan of Capitalism and of China. The two go hand in hand !
Why don't you take you ass to a library and read a few books. Doesn;t matter what book, just read any book. You are so ignorant, it is disgusting.
it's really comforting to know that there are still plenty of inconsiderate, lazy bums who want something for nothing...great job OWS idiots!
"lazy bums who want something for nothing"
Oh, you mean the financial elite who in 08 took a break from reading Friedman and ran to the nanny state to get billions of tax dollars for FREE?
Weren't those billions paid back with interest?
Not the stock that the US Gov. still holds in GM, nor the losses from the rigged game of 'betting on shorts' that numerous banks and investment firms engaged in, only to have their hands slapped lightly by the SEC, in stark contrast to the money they stole.
Those sums haven't been repaid. no. Nor have those CEOs gone to prison for thier crimes yet.. But there's time.
In fact, I read an article today where over 100 felonies are finally landing on one crooked broker's head, another large lot of similar charges on an individual he was associated with, and thus far it looks like someone may actually follow through with a criminal prosecution in those cases, if we're lucky..
And a NY Federal Judge is currently scoffing at a plea agreement that Citibank made with the SEC in one such case, as well.
Maybe someone in the judicial branch is at least watching this, and paying attention.... finally.. Even if the Congress critters and others who are supposed to over-see the laws that pertain to this stuff have their noses buried too far into the trough of corporate money to care.
they are creating American jobs, you're destroying American businesses along the streets of NY and America, but deficating and pissing in the streets...causing us WORKING TAXPAYERS to foot the bill for extra security and enviromental cleanup in the cesspool of a world that you're creating
at least you understand what is happening.. only the protestors are not the destroyers. you need to widen the angle on the view finder.
no, they´re exploitative private tyrannies http://struggleforfreedom.blogg.no/1320871888_replace_capitalism_wi.html
So when the wealthy get billions for free then thats ok, but giving poor unemployd people welfare, thats awful..? Hypocrite
http://struggleforfreedom.blogg.no/1320872575_the_free_ride_society.html
not saying that everything that they do is right...but they are contributing to resolving the present employment crisis. they are the people who create jobs so the "poor unemployed folks on welfare" can have a chance to work and be proud of being able to support themselves. and that is a part of your propoganda and lies to say that all of the people that can create jobs are getting billions for free. not to mention that you're also lumping all of the people on welfare into one group. many (not all) just want a free ride from taxpayers.
just ignore him. don;t even read his comments. He is desperately trying to sabotage the hope that came out of the massive protests today.
We´re ALL getting a free ride! : http://struggleforfreedom.blogg.no/1320872575_the_free_ride_society.html
The basic premise of capitalism is that one who has the capital can raise profit without doing any thing! = getting something for nothing. I know you don't get it, your time is up. OWS is going to bring your lazy days to an end. say goodbye to corporate welfare, sweet profits and nihilistic greed. You time is up, your time is so up.
I would like to know the reason that some one had to put their cigarette out on my BMW this morning. I am 24 years old and started a company while I was still in high school. I choose to live on Wall and am constantly harassed by you guys. I am not a banker but an entrepreneur. I am not a follower and thats why I am successful. You guys need to be more constructive with your time... I had to change gears because of the economy and you must too it is an embarrassment what you are doing.
Some asshole put a cigarette out on your car. Assholes are everywhere. You're young, you'll learn that for yourself someday... Good luck in all your future endeavors. OWS
And of course it was a protester, you just know it. Hope it costs a lot to fix.
You know what is the real embarrassment? You big buddies on Wall st, went to Washington and got bailed out by American taxpayers. I guess that was an entrepreneurship, lets do nothing useful and make a collapse of economy and then get bailed out by the American people. Is that part of what you do on Wall st?
I feel your pain onepercent. These assholes don't have a clue. They should be protesting Obama in DC. He's the one causing all this, not Wall Street.
They want to stop corruption? Well start at the top of the most corrupt administration in American History. Oh wait, you'll have to wait because he's in BALI pissing away taxpayer money.
OWS is broader than Obama, DC, all political establishment. DC, etc, will figure it out, or will be replaced by people who can.
Hello? Occupy DC? Have you been asleep for the past 2 months?
How funny that the protestors know the country is broke but chant for student loan forgiveness and free higher education.
The country is broke because of the stupid murderous wars we in this country are forced to pay for and because the 1% stole from the taxpayers. Get it yet?
Stop the wars. Yes.
That saves us a few hundred billion a year - but we are overspending by 10 times that.
Funny how a "broke" country can dig up $700 billion then $600 billion more to give to the banks. Maybe if companies like Bank of America actually paid their taxes instead of getting a $1 billion refund in addition to their $4.4 billion in profits through tax evasion, we could pay to have schools cost as much as they did in the '70s.
If they got a refund that means they paid taxes first, right?
No. There's a separate law that applies to corporations but not people called "tax loss carryback". They can claim to post a loss, and then reclaim money paid on previous years, up to 7 years back at the corporate tax rate.
http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-a-tax-loss-carryback.htm
It's a gimmick where they can pay taxes one year, then use accounting fraud to shift their profit overseas, and claim a loss in the USA's borders the next year. Then they can get back the money they paid in the previous year.
The net result is that they don't pay taxes.
It doesn't just apply to large corporations according to your link. Even a small business can do it. It isn't accounting fraud according to the IRS or is it?
Small businesses can do it too, that's how I found out about it. My old company used to do this as well. In fact, most companies pay little to no taxes.
It is legal, but I still call it fraud according to the definition of the word: something intended to deceive; deliberate trickery intended to gain advantage.
Corporations take our land, employ our people, use our land and air and water, use our police, our infrastructure, etc. And instead of paying back to what makes their business possible, they take it and run and stick us with the bill.
Whoever in OWS is doing the estimating for your crowd of protesters better go back and take a refresher course in how to estimate.
We'll inform the NYPD.
25,000, 30,000. You folks are so full of Shit. I love how you speak of propaganda when you use such obviously overinflated numbers to describe your joke of a protest. I don't know if you have noticed, but we have a 15 trillion dollar national debt, and its going higher. There is no way to fund free college education even if you confiscated all the wealth of "1%". Get fucking real. You are the absolute worst group of whining pussies I have ever seen.
There's a troll above me.
The estimate came from the police! 7:06 pm: Police scanners estimate the crowd at 32,650 people. Reported by jstetser Anyone arguing for the 1% is either a rich corrupt bastard with no morals or is just uneducated about what the movement is all about.
I was in Foley Square tonight--there were definitely at least 20,000-25,000 people there. The crowd was massive...
Apparently, you have never looked in a mirror.
What gives you the right to disrupt the lives and infringe on the rights of others? What gives you the right to set up camp in a private park? What gives you the right to claim you represent me? You're nothing but a mob. The propaganda you spread and the claims you make are wrong; they are immoral and have no factual substance. You are a danger to society and to innocent people. Give it up, get to work, and contribute before you demand anything in return.
You sound exactly like a pro-slavery Confederate.
As it turns out, in the real world, people's actions impact each other. Hence people have a right to speak up and be heard when they are impacted negatively by the actions of others.
He sounds like a pro-slavery Confederate? I don't think so. He sounds logical.
People have a right to speak up and be heard (regardless of whether or not they are impacted positively OR negatively) - but when people abuse that right and their actions infringe on others' rights, that's not only illegal, but it's childish. It's as if OWS is a 5 year old trying to yell over their friend just so they are heard.
Read carefully.
"Give it up, get to work, and contribute before you demand anything in return."
He is claiming that the OWS people have no right to complain until they do something for him. He is saying that the unemployed have absolutely no right to speak up.
Ask yourself, do you believe in the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness? Life is only possible if you have food and shelter. We no longer have an agrarian society, so if a person has no access to land, work, or anything to obtain the means to life, then the right no longer exists.
Nobody wants anything to be handed on a silver platter. But if we're going to live in a society where the means to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness is held by a few and others have nothing, then we do not believe in those rights at all.
Consider John Locke's theory of property, the same theory the US law is based on.
http://www.constitution.org/jl/2ndtr05.htm "Sec. 27. Though the earth, and all inferior creatures, be common to all men, yet every man has a property in his own person: this no body has any right to but himself. The labour of his body, and the work of his hands, we may say, are properly his. Whatsoever then he removes out of the state that nature hath provided, and left it in, he hath mixed his labour with, and joined to it something that is his own, and thereby makes it his property. It being by him removed from the common state nature hath placed it in, it hath by this labour something annexed to it, that excludes the common right of other men: for this labour being the unquestionable property of the labourer, no man but he can have a right to what that is once joined to, at least where there is enough, and as good, left in common for others."
fiftythreepercent's argument is the same that was used by the Confederacy, that the north has no right to interfere with their property. The OWS people have every right to complain if they do not have the resources to fulfil their rights.
Partially correct. OWS has the right to complain (until their complaining infringes on others rights).
However, I would suggest you live by your own statement - if, nobody wants anything to be handed on a silver platter, why are there hundreds (not thousands) of people in NYC screaming, 'I want, I want, I want'?
There's no such thing as a free lunch - no one will get 'change' without inciting change. Don't ask for the government to accomplish your every single desire while you complain in the streets of NYC when WE ARE the government. It's childish and it's not what this country was founded on.
That's right, we are the government. People aren't asking for anything on a silver platter. They want a level playing field. Right now we have a soccer game where the rich man's team has 2 dozen players and the field is downhill for them.
Sure, through sheer grit and determination it is possible for the poor man's 5-man team to race up hill with the ball and score a goal. But why should the playing field be unbalanced in the first place?
So you seem so full of criticism, what would you have people do? Do you think people haven't been fighting for decades? Why do you think this movement got so much support so quickly, do you think it was magic? This has been building for a long time.
How does the rich man's team have more players? Here's a simple example of government (bear with me): If nation X is made up of 100 citizens, 99 of which (99%) want change, assuming 100% voter participation (not the case in America), it would be easy for the true majority to elect one of those 99 citizens to represent the true majority. Why is that not the case in America? You tell me. We each have an equal voice. I agree there is bribery and corruption in politics, but why can't we actually elect the change we want to see in the world? We can!
I think this 'movement' got a lot of support because people are, all too often, quick to complain and slow to volunteer; quick to be a part of the problem, slow to be a part of the solution; quick to demand rights, slow to execute their duties.
Ultimately it boils down to misplaced passion - if these folks had the same passion for local/state government as they do about marching across the Brooklyn Bridge, the world would be a better place.
A few points to consider:
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exactly! what gives the corporations and the government the right ?? we are the law makers.. we are the people. that is what gives us the right. the corporations and government should get to work and contribute before expecting anything in return.
Someone tell me when the tear gas starts, i love watching pigs squirm
but they have masks
the protestors have masks? if they could afford that why are they protesting for not having enough money?
anyone have tickets to the knicks game tonight ? i want to see how the 1% plays
Thousands?? In addition to being losers OWSers are liars.
No, the major news sources lie. Are you there? If not youdon't know. And even if you are there, there are protests all around the city and NY is a big city.
There was not 10,000 people there. If there were 1 or 2 thousand that would be a lot. It's over go home, wash and find a job.
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10,000 around the world duh!!
No, the article said 10,000 at Foley Square, more coming.
No, it did not. The NY Times estimates 1 to 2 thousand city wide. Out of 8 million people who are in the city every day? You people need to go home and wash.
I am not there, I wish I was. The article above clearly says 10,000. Police scanners estimate 32, 625 protesters at Foley Square alone and it is still early evening.
Read the real media reports.
@steven2002 do you believe everything the "real media" says? if so, why?
The "real media" You mean Fox News and CBS and all the corporate censored media whores?
I guess you get your news form the Daily Worker.
Well let's see, that would include NBC,CBS, ABC, Fox, CNN,MSNBC, NPR, the NY Times, The Daily News, THE NY Post, et al. so where do you get your news?
Democracy Now, OWS, reddit, and different sites who don't whore the truth they know out to the highest bidder. Go ahead and make fun of the sites I mentioned, it's expected.
Keep drinking the kool aid moron, While you stand in the welfare office with your hand out.
it is expected that ignorant people answer like Steven; "hope" that one day you don't need to either be on that line of welfare, collecting unemployment indefinitely or chanting loudly with OWS when your rich corporate business doesn't need you anymore and kick you in the @$$, because you definitely don't belong to the 1% you're a slave and belong to the 99% like all of us...keep dreaming and watching your fake "news", you might wake up soon to a nightmare.....the one many of us are in already and can't take it anymore!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You really are moron, arent you? First of all, I have more mone in my checking account than you and your entire family has ever seen. Second I will never have to collect Social Security, I do not need it. Third and most important I am 25 years old with an income you could only dream of. So do me a favor, keep sleeping in the park amongst rat droppings and human feces. Also keep demonstrating for equality, I'm flying to Monte Carlo for Thanksgiving. While you are sitting on a stone or wood bench eating a cheese sandwich, I'll be home having dinner with my family. enjoy, loser.
LMOL l!!! you are truly a loser !!! you just really made me feel soooo sorry for you and the people like you, but I feel bad to know that people like you live in my beautiful USA, it is people like you who doesn't deserve to be called a true american.... and hey kiddo life goes around many times, could be up tomorrow and hit the floor in seconds, and I'll be there to share my inflatable mattress with you, you spoiled brat !! and if you are so rich and powerful why are you so interested in watching what we the "lower class" do??? does it affect you?? I guess so, that's why your here texting with me...what an irony, you better go to bed and sleep in your linen sheets.....you definitively have no brain...I won't waste any more of my precious time with a ridicule like you.
Have a good night, I have to get up early tomorrow and layoff 614 of your 99%. the extra ten are my executives. They will be taken care of.
BTW my dog sleeps on better bedding than you do.
You are truly a moron, keep sleeping in the park. Try not to roll over into the rat feces. Enjoy your life as one of the 99%. Enjoy telling your kids that you cannot afford to send them to college. Enjoy telling your kids you cannot afford to buy them the clothes they want. Enjoy denying your family what they want. I do not have to. Take your family out to dinner at McDonalds, it's where you belong.
one thing for you only....what goes around comes around.... don't forget that, life will teach you in its own sweet and most exact way, remember us then!!! The unique Law of Compensation never fails....good night.
Tenaska Energy
If so which one are you? let me guess....the guy that lights up all the bulbs, lol, I don't see and Steven as a shareholder.....oh! I know!! the valet parking guy...you still part of the 99% when they can't use you anymore they'll dispose of you.....
I am interested in you for comic relief. You people make me laugh. Keep begging, it suits you.
laugh now...cry later....I can see what your brain is filled of...$#&% later kiddo....
I was hoping you would tell me your name so i can tell the 99% that will be laid off who caused it. I guess not , no balls .
aww! so that means WE the 99% are important to you....that's why you're here reading our posts, welcome anytime! However if you think you belong to the 1% you are too wrong, count your money again....the 1% are billionaires and can't even count what they have without their accountant's report, so if you think you are part of the the 1% that is really a joke, so why don't you start by giving me your name and I can see your business financial statements and see if you are a truly participant of the 1%. You are just part of the 99% don't be fooled by a couple of thousands...lol
BTW, my friends and I, all business owners are seriously considering shutting down U.S. operations and moving to the U.K. Where we have been offered favorable conditions to further our business operations. I think it would be great fun to watch as 600 of the 99% lost their jobs. That's just from my company. Keep it up, we will see who wins.
LOL...yeah, go for it, moron. The U.K.'s a GREAT place to open a business right about now...the Brits are just ROLLING in dough! Make sure you open satellite offices in Ireland, Spain and Greece, too--you'll make a killing! Too funny...
You and your friends sound like morons.Yhe conditions in the UK are worse then here,but i am siur if you were business owners you woild k now that.So Just go and take your imaginary jobs with you
this is a comment that only a 25 year old inexperienced spoiled brat like you could write. If you move to the UK you will be doing us a favor, but please don't come back......ever!
Ok ten thousand around the world. Out of 6 billion, let's say 2 billion are under the age of 18. You think ten thousand people is a major response out of 4 billion. Keep drinking the Kool-aid.