A Call to Occupy
Posted 13 years ago on Nov. 15, 2011, 8:23 a.m. EST by OccupyWallSt
#OccupyWallStreet Convening 9 a.m. Sixth Avenue and Canal Street.
New York, NY — We are a global movement that is reclaiming our humanity and our future. We have stepped into a revitalizing civic process, realizing that we cannot fix our crises isolated from one another. We need collective action, and we need civic space. We are creating that civic space.
To occupy is to embody the spirit of liberation that we wish to manifest in our society. It is to exercise our freedom to assemble. We are creating space for community, values, ideas, and a level of meaningful dialogue that is absent in the present discourse.
Liberated space is breaking free of isolation, breaking down the walls that literally and figuratively separate us from one another. It is a new focus on community, trust, love and hope. We occupy to create a vision of equality, liberty and social justice onto the blank paving stones of public parks, in the silent hallways of abandoned schools, banks, and beyond. Public space plays a crucial role in this civic process and encourages open, transparent organizing in our movement. As we have seen in Liberty Square, outdoor space invites people to listen, speak, share, learn, and act.
Last night, billionaire Michael Bloomberg sent a massive police force to evict members of the public from Liberty Square—home of Occupy Wall Street for the past two months. People who were part of a dynamic civic process were beaten and pepper-sprayed, their personal property destroyed.
Supporters of this rapidly growing movement were mobilized in the middle of the night, making phone calls, taking the streets en masse, and planning next steps. Americans and people around the world are appalled at Bloomberg's treatment of people who peacefully assemble. We are appalled, but not deterred. Liberty Square was dispersed, but its spirit not defeated. Today we are stronger than we were yesterday. Tomorrow we will be stronger still. We are breaking free of the fear that constricts and confines us. We occupy to liberate.
We move forward in the grand tradition of the transformative social movements that have defined American history. We stand on the shoulders of those who have struggled before us, and we pick up where others have left off. We are creating a better society for us all.
Occupy Wall Street has renewed a sense of hope. It has revived a belief in community and awakened a revolutionary spirit too long silenced. Join us as we liberate space and build a movement. 9 a.m. Tuesday morning at Sixth Avenue and Canal we continue.
I heard this on CNN this morning. They interviewed the head of the Fraternal Order of Police giving general credence to his narrative. No one from the Occupy Wall Street Movement was interviewed.
In sharp contrast I tuned in the BBC on XM Radio and they were interviewing people from your movement. However BBC said they tried to get someone from the police to interview and the police told them that "no one was available".
That should sum it up with the role of the Corporate American Media in all of this.
John
Keep Moving Forward. Adapt, Learn, Improvise. Keep Up the Good Work. Keep The 1% guessing. Fair-ness.
Feign defeat, regroup, return this Spring as a formidable entity.
Life is not fair. Learn it,live it,love it.
I always love it when people say this. But you know what? The United States has, currently, without a doubt, the MOST unfair socio-economic system on the face of the earth. The level of "unfairness" is systematic, corrupt and morally depraved. Attempts to deploy "common sense" bombs like this will not save that system from the wrath of the people.
" the MOST unfair socio-economic system on the face of the earth"
Yeah,compared to China,North Korea,Russia,Cuba, Venezuela,Mexico,Africa,Middle East, you're right America is so damn unfair. Our Govt. won't take care of your every want and need from cradle to grave,....that's so damn unfair. Where any person who has the dream and desire can achieve anything his heart desires with hard work and persistence. Wa,wa,wa,.....America is so damn unfair.
You ARE part of the problem.
Life is not fair. Learn it,live it,love it. If you can't handle a fundamental truth of living in this world seek medical remedies for your mental issues.
You're conflating two separate ideas of fairness. There is the childish 'life is not fair' acknowledgement that life itself is full of chance and sometimes bad things happen to good people and good things happen to bad and there's not a lot we can do about it. Then there is systematic inequality, in which systems are built to serve and further inequality. This is what we're talking about. A grown up, mature response to systematic inequality isn't, "Stop whining," but rather, "What can we do to change the system so it is fairer for all?"
By the way, your list is curious. Venezuela is actually more equal than the U.S. economically. We're better than Mexico and Brasil but on par with China. That's not saying much though.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/01/Gini_since_WWII.svg/800px-Gini_since_WWII.svg.png
On par with China? Seriously? Have you been there? I have. And what of all that talk about child labor and suicides while making high-end electronic toys? That make me wonder about the validity of your other examples.
I have, actually, yes.
And if you had read my comment thoroughly (actually, not even that thoroughly - if you had read it at all), you would have seen that I was specifically addressing economic inequality. You can 'wonder' all you like, but unless you have data to present, you'll have to forgive me for reading your comment as that of someone who responds intuitively rather than intellectually.
Ad hominem. Typical of those with weak cases.
If you had actually traveled China, you would see VAST disparity between the peasant class and the high members of the ruling party. Granted, it's improved drastically, but is still behind the US.
Just check the poverty rates between the US and China if you can't actually observe the living conditions. Facts are facts.
Excuse me if I'm wrong, but were you not the one who changed the argument from, 'Here's some data, have at!' to 'Have you actually visited China?'. In other words you changed the discussion from one involving empirical evidence to one based upon anecdotal evidence.
And you still haven't offered me any data which contradicts that which I've given. China is a poorer country per capita than the U.S. However the relative inequality is on par with that in the United States. I provided data to back up my assertion (which has not changed since my first post). You have not yet provided any to back up yours*. You have also neglected to mention the huge rising middle class in China (which is strange, since it was one of the most shocking changes to me between my own visits). Facts are facts.
[*For kicks, I looked up the poverty rates. China's at 16%, the U.S. at 12% (probably a low estimate, but I'll use it for the sake of discussion). What were you trying to point out, exactly?]
You asserted facts without backing them up. I questioned them based on my experience.
I led you to the data you've already found. I told you to go check them and you did. Good job.
And as I've pointed out, and you've confirmed, China is behind the US in poverty. Also, I mentioned China's drastic improvement, which is the lowering of poverty and a bigger middle class.
As I said, facts are facts. What I said holds. Sorry if that offends you.
This "systematic inequality" is a manufactured crisis/issue brought to you in part by your lord and savior Barack Hussein Obama,Adbusters,George Soros and Leftists/Marxist's/Communist's/Nazi's/Muslim extremist's from around the world.
The idea that all of a sudden there is some kind of "systematic inequality" and it demands hundreds of people in almost every major city to take hostage public/private land and make the most outrageous demands that have nothing to do with reality in any way,is...well,....Utopian and childish.
Hi Progmarx. Just a question: what would be worse for you? To actually live under a government that only FAKES to care a about the common people while doing literally everything to ensure that the the power and the money stay with a small percentage of privilleged ones ... OR to one day have to agree with the words of a hippie? Seriously... I get you love this country and the hardworking people that helped to make it big. And you don´t like whiny people, who blame personal failure on others, understood. But is it really that hard, to just for a moment, open your head to the possibility that they have a point? Wait, don´t aswer right away! Take that moment.
The premise of your question is flawed and assumes that the Govt. actually "FAKES". Using your assumption nobody could ever have succeeded monetarily in this country because as you think the Govt. ensures that power/money stay with " a small percentage of privilleged ones". This as we all know is not the case. Hippies got it really wrong with the anti-war protests in the 60's and 70's because we all know what happened to the millions of South Vietnamese that were slaughtered when we pulled out. Why should I believe the words of Hippies today?
The economic data is unequivocal on this point: over the last three decades, the wealth of the nation has been steadily concentrated into fewer and fewer hands. That doesn't mean no opportunity, it means diminished opportunities. It's not a question of what you think of whoever tells you about this - anyone might let slip a truth, right? And this is something you can check for yourself.
I'm trying to figure out whether you just think 'Barack Hussein Obama' is a smashing name or if you are trying to make a point by using his middle name. Hopefully the former. The latter is rather pathetic- anyone who would make character judgements based on a given name is probably not someone you would want to have a conversation with.
Also... ...did you really just put Leftists, Marxists, Communists, Nazis, and Muslims all in the same category? ... ... ...do you even know what those words mean? Maybe you should go look them up and then perhaps we can have a discussion.
Look it up,these groups in one form or another support OWS. Hussein is his middle name. He was/is of the Muslim faith. This is what he told George Stephanopoulos. There is nothing "pathetic" in speaking the truth. We've made our judgments about BHO from his actions and intentions the last 3 yrs.
Open your mind to the truth. OWS is a fraud.
What if BHO is 'of the Muslim Faith' ? Is it automatically bad to be a Muslim ? Are you condemning the over One Billion Muslims on the Planet ? Go on, tell us... Lets hear it. Lets hear this 'truth' that you are so anxious to speak ...
Those groups are all completely different and ideologically have nothing in common with each other.
Hussein is his middle name, that is correct. However your pointed use of it suggests that you have some point in drawing attention to it. You don't, for example, generally see someone write 'William Jefferson Clinton' in casual political conversation.
Based on your further commentary I see that your point in using 'Hussein' was to draw attention to his Muslim heritage. I don't think Obama is a Muslim. I generally don't presume to diagnose anyone else's religious leanings, as those are between them and whatever god they may serve. I'd guess if Obama isn't a Christian (as he claims), he's likely an agnostic.
But if he is a Muslim, who cares? I wasn't aware that that was illegal.
So far all you've offered are bizarre juxtapositions of vastly different groups and what you clearly think is a smear on Obama (as I don't see being Muslim as a negative, such an 'accusation' doesn't really bother me). I'm at a loss as to why I should take you seriously.
P.S. If you'd ever bothered to investigate OWS, instead of just cloaking yourself in random conspiracy theories, you'd know that many of the protestors aren't very fond of Obama either. He's part of the system they dislike.
You're a delusional troll. Go back under your rock, please. This all started with your savior, Reagan.
Another substantive reply from the Utopian Left.
Venezuela? Are you kidding? And Cuba? Well the latter is a tyranny, so your point is well taken. But what of the rest? Does our country have to devolve that far before you'll take up the struggle? Or are you, as I suspect, a troll?
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Cuba has REAL national health care. We DON'T.
well put progmarx...swiss"miss" if you're love cuban healthcare do move! one less drag on social benefits. "miss" is apropo given your posts THROUGHOUT this forum which reeks of childish ignorance and an inability to grasp the larger and complex issues of the existing governance, the financial system, and even the healthcare you want so much. its funny to see mindless protestors like you being told "what to do" by the "pseudo-anarchist" academic intellectuals (again 1%) that puppeteer quietly (hiding) from the sidelines and feeding thoughtless anarchistic fools like you with empty promises of totalitarian, absolute, and violent revolutionary change (btw, they are not sleeping on the ground and in the filth that you are!). talk about fucked up "agency"! i assume we need to hold your hand and explain what that word means and implies. i agree that we have a racialized and gendered institution that perpetuates egregious economic inequalities and would love to see change including socialized healthcare (i will protest by voting appropriately - an evolutionary change from within the unjust system). Look at what your raving and screaming has done - the movement has NOW come down to first amendment rights about occupying notionally "public" space by violating the rights of others (lest we forget about the women and gay men that have been physically assaulted by you hypocritical morons!)...the paradox of all this action is that you are now the 1%! get lost, educate yourself properly and come back in 5 years. we are moving towards an informational economy and you are getting left behind...as Derrida said pay attention to the quotation marks in this post.
Move to Cuba. It is really that simple.
The only rotten part of Cuba is Guantanamo Bay...
Yeah, and the mafia and it good too. What's your point? Do you really think you've "made it" without standing on the backs of native america? god? the underprivileged?
Your reply is hard to understand much like everything OWS communicates.
We don't expect the world to be fair. But to use that as an excuse for people being unfair is an abdication of morality - and to use it as an excuse for continuing an unfair system is contemptible.
Occupy a student loan, a shower & razor, a suit, some guts and tenacity, and work hard to occupy a job. Nothing worth having ever comes easy. You are entitled to NOTHING.
You don't need the razor, I have a neatly trimmed beard and it was never a problem at interviews... a shower ? Well yes, might be advisable although one of my bosses used to sweat like a pig, so you would not have really noticed in his case... guts ? Well a lot of people seem to have extremely fat guts in offices these days, I put it down to all the 'fast food' which they guzzle down during their 1/2 hour 'lunch breaks' ... tenacity, hard work ? yep you need that as they always make you work the longest hours they can get you to work for the least amount of pay and no appreciation for your efforts what so ever... Entitled to Nothing ? Right on the ball, yep , you will slog away for years, decades on end and at the end of it all , you will hand over all that hard earned money over to the Banks to be Bailed Out... Welcome to the 'American Way of Life' !
Excellent post.
Fight back non-violently. Keep on fighting, keep on growing REoccupy!
yours s. struggleforfreedom
"What you should do is exactly the kinds of things that are going to lead to hysteria among privileged and powerful people" - Noam Chomsky
And if we throw ourselves at their powerful machinery with dumb violence, the privileged will laugh hysterically as they view our poorly-executed and ill-fated performance from the comfort of their well-protected homes.
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I wonder how these cops are going to feel when Bloomberg can't pay them overtime, or has to let go of people due to "insufficient funds".
The conventional media hides the truth and it is very bad! Let there be help for the poor! Let Occupy Wall Street remain in existence instead of stopped!
What do you mean "let there be help for the poor"? What the heck do you call Medicaid, Food Stamps, Obama's Healthcare laws, AFDC, food banks, etc.? Sounds like all those things are currently helping the poor.
Food Stamps, etc. have a maximum income limit that does not care if you have no food, that paying the rent leaves you with no food. Medicaid does not give or restore sight to the blind hence a woman who lost her vision through no fault of her own had to persuade doctors to perform an eye operation for free, which no one is guaranteed to receive. Hence, Medicaid and all other entitlements do not help all the poor and they arbitrarily determine what poor is, without regard to human health. The Preamble to the US Constitution includes "....promote the general welfare....." but the governments of the USA refuse to follow it.
As America is the Richest Country in the World, how come that there are any 'Poor' at all ? Slip of the tongue ?
Hey China, Japan and the other nations funding these actions. Are you not seeing what is happening to your "investments"? If you guys were smart and fiscally responsible, you'd stop buying any more US debt and start selling what you already have.
Do you really want the US economy to collapse. Childish statement.
Yes! Collapsing the economy and rebuilding it, is all we can do at this point -- poor child.
You have no idea what you are talking about. The 99% would fall into worse despair than we are already in.
Reallycold don't say that Timelord's idea is wrong when I really dont see that yours is working out how it is. As the American Goverment we took the loans in the first place, thus not making it China/Japans fault.
Sure it would be responsible for them to help us but honestly they are not us and have their own economies, and issues to worry about.
And also, stop being such a selfish American bastard and look at the US on an international level. Sometimes economies have to collapse and we as a planet have to move on.
Cocktazer's statement would work but it would involve plunging the world into termoil while the international economies reset.
We need to stop the changing back and forth on what we are going to do.
We just need to pick one and stick with it.
So we're picking...let the US economy fall apart? I'm not a selfish American bastard. Why would I want my economy to fall apart and lose everything?
Maybe because none of us really have anything anyway. A good example in the impermanence of things. Perhaps its time for those who have to lose everything. And that includes me...
So what is it...do you have anything or not. You're being the selfish mother fucker now. Yea I want my kid to grow up with nothing. You're a fool and you deserve to have nothing. Do onto others huh....
Well, none of us really have anything. But, because of the way particles move about, there is the appearance that at certain points in time we do have things. At other points in time it appears as if we have lost things. I don't think its unreasonable for those who have had the appearance of things to have the appearance of losing things for a while. Its good to learn on both sides of the curve. Thank you for insulting me. I hope that your parents are proud of the child they raised.
agreed, at one time I thought #OWS's had a clue. turns out all their quarks were just in beta decay.
You sound like a child with your belief of not having anything.
Its just quantum physics. Glad to be a super intelligent child :)
Your not, so don't get a big head. It may be quantum physics, but that's not how the world runs. If you truly believe we have nothing, you should start by getting rid of all your possessions. It's impossible. Even at OWS, people had to bring material things with them. That may of been the problem all along.
"may of been"
The correct way to say that is "may HAVE been".
OMG, you really are a wanker aren't you.
Thanks for the update. I haven't had the stomach yet to turn on the Propaganda Networks.
it's the 'liberal media' for a reason, - I thought you all would be able to agree on something after all. guess not.
you guys are on a much higher level of stupidity compared to just regular liberals.
Jesus is a liberal. Are you calling him stupid?
Jesus isn't a liberal - he doesn't hand out free salvation.
The founding fathers were liberals. Are you calling them stupid too?
'Sell everything you have, give it to the poor and you will have Riches in Heaven and follow me' 'Where your Treasure is, there will your Heart be also' 'It is easier to lead a camel through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of Heaven'
Need I say more - you are on very rocky ground my friend !
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Wh-wh-what!? Check your Bible on that! And get a refund from your church, too!
So, is Jesus a capitalist who needs money?
Jesus is a capitalist he never asked for money because he is trying to save people from sin. Unlike you who are doing nothing and asking for money.
The Good Samaritan ? Is that what you are then ? 'Sell Everything you have, give it to the poor and you will have Treasure in Heaven and follow me' Are they the words of a Capitalist ? ' Where Your Treasure is, there will your Heart be Also' Where is your Treasure ? The Fate of the Rich Man who would not give 'even a crumb that fell from the Rich Man s Table' Remember him ? In Hell, he was begging for a drop of water to cool his tongue but was told 'a great gulf lies between you and us' .... need I go on? YOU NEED TO WAKE UP MY FRIEND BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE FOR YOU
he is a philosopher who negotiates with the merchant.
CNN again.
Interestingly, I saw an occupier interviewed on Wolf Blitzer's CNN show this evening. The guy did a pretty good job explaining the movement although he was by no means a slick communicator.
When I went to the zoo and stared at the gorillas, one stared back and waved. Why?
Why didn't you ask it ? You probably both speak the same language ...
yep
Don't be paranoid just because CNN is lazy. XM wants to be edgy so their prejudice tends the other way, big deal. Look at the general reaction from the country to see where you stand. If there is little concern then you haven't gotten through to enough people.
Nobody is paranoid, people legitimately want to know what's going on. It's sad to say that I have to get news from half-way around the world just to find out what's going on my own town. I don't know what their motivations and intents are, but when it comes to journalism, CNN and the other mainstream media outlets do a horrible job.
Someone is getting thrown out, they are the reason the police come, and you don't even interview them? From a pure journalism perspective, that's beyond pathetic.
Oligarchy is the political power based on economic power. And it’s the rise of Wall Street in economic terms, that it’d turn into political power.Wall Street will then continue to feed that back into more deregulation, more opportunities to go out and take reckless risks and capture trillions of dollars. Wall Street only has the lobbyists. Today more than 42,000 Wall Street lobbyists manipulate USA's 537 elected officials with huge campaign contributions that fund candidates who support their agenda. It no longer matters who's the President of USA.
The political and economical leadership of the US has chosed to cartel profits and transformed the US economy to serve the colluding and unlawful oligarchy. The political and economical leadership of the US is bailing out failed paradigms with trillions of dollars while committing social injustice to its people. The political and economical leadership of the US including the US Congress have now become Wall Street's "Trojan Horses". The US banks are borrowing money at near zero interest from the US government, then lending it back to the US government at even mere fractions higher interest than they are paying. The net interest margin made by the US banks by lending the money back to the US federal government in the first 6 months of 2011 is 210 billion dollars. The organizers and profiteers of war and death - the past four generations of Bush family - Samuel P Bush, Prescott S Bush, George H W Bush and George W Bush along with a group of international investment bankers and corporate executives, have been instrumental in creating and profiting from extremely costly and destructive wars. Four generations of Bush family have reaped tremendous profits from the wars they orchestrated. The war profiteers of Wall Street are now pushing the US towards a nuclear war with Iran. Due to the oligarchs’ rapacious looting and their purchase of a politically protected luxurious lifestyle, the people of the US are on the road to permanent serfdom under a police state. Tens of millions in the US live desperate slave like existences and they hold little hope for a better life. The democracy was not given to the people of the US on a platter. It is not theirs for all time, irrespective of their efforts. Either people of the US organize and they find political leadership to take this on or they are going to be in deep trouble. The failure of governance to address the current critical issues have already produced catastrophic consequences. Now we are experiencing a major global paradigm shift and it is still unfolding. Thirty-two US states including California, Illinois, Nevada, Arizona, Florida, New Jersey and Michigan are on the brink of insolvency as their tattered and fading economy is now more dire than ever. Inevitably in very near future the US government will order police or military to martial law which may lead to a second American revolution.
Occupy a student loan, a shower & razor, a suit, some guts and tenacity, and work hard to occupy a job. Nothing worth having ever comes easy. You are entitled to NOTHING.
Um, there aren't any jobs. That's one of the points.
[Edited to add: In the interests of full disclosure, I do indeed have a job. A good one! One that enables me to pay federal income tax even, which I suppose makes me part of the 53% you guys are so crazy about.
And you know what? I'm not arrogant enough to assume that people without jobs are somehow less intelligent, less hard-working, or less capable than I am. Some are, of course, but most are struggling in a market where there are fewer job openings than qualified candidates.
Ironically enough, the people who have formed OWS are some of the very people who would probably be great assets to any company. Take off your blinders and think about what they have accomplished. They have, from pretty much nothing, created a community which provides free health care to its members, along with food and other supplies. They have a five thousand book library, all cataloged and properly documented. They're working on sustainable living and being able to generate their own energy.
That is impressive, and not exactly the sign of lazy slackers who have nothing to do with their lives. ]
marginalize the protesters.
Better to 'marginalize' the Exploiters
Fire bloomberg
No, burn him.
Fire him for taking too long to do the right thing, and for allowing the occupiers back into the park after the clean up.
AMEN to that.
double AMEN
You should choke on your free market, swine, burn in your fascist hell.
Hypocrite. Toss out all your corporate-made electronic crap, designer clothes and trendy beverages and THEN make that statement. Might make you a bit more credible.
Tsk, tsk. Only after you surrender your iPods, iPhones, iPads, laptops, Nikes & Starbucks & multitudes of other nifty gadgets made by the "big, bad evil corporations". Okay?
More cowbell!
Boomberg is spinning this as a gentle request that the protesters leave. They were "asked" to leave and "assisted" as their belongings were stored away for them. I am so disgusted listening to how he is spinning this. PLEASE share photos, vidoes anything you have that tells the REAL story of what happened! Anyone and EVERYONE PLEASE share your media so we can tell the real story on our own. I am creating a FB and Twitter #DIGITALOCCUPATION to tell the truth of this raid!
I think the use of riot gear, tear gas and sonic cannons on peaceably assembled US citizens should tell the story, if we can get the photos and video onto a real news network.
Somebody send video of the bulldozers rolling in to Ed Schultz of The Ed Show. He seems to have a general working knowledge of the Bill of Rights, maybe he'll start pushing the real story out.
Wow---tear gas and---sonic cannons? AWESOME!! So the sixties ARE back! WOOOHOOOO!! Bring on the National Guard and live rounds!!! Maybe they could even roll a few tanks over your day care camps. Because I'd seriously buy tickets and sit down with a bowl of popcorn to watch that. Good times! :D
Of course you would. You must be a right winger.... because that's how that ilk thinks. You love guns and dead bodies. Yet, you (the right wing as a whole) claim to be religious and Jesus followers.
I cannot find your reply but thanks anyway. Are you Digital Occupier on Twiiter? I am ZKurtlen on Twitter. Maybe send me a private message here to find U if not too much trouble?
Cheers.
love your enemy and compassion will fallow. he is not spinning it, you are spinning his words.
.
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corporations do not have tongues
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tweet that!
Still looking for you on Twitter.
@donnagallo
How can I find this on FB?
Actually digital occupation can cause DDoS.
Go OHIO,Go Wisconsin, Go America.We Are The 99%.
Fight back non-violently. Keep on fighting, keep on growing REoccupy!
yours s. struggleforfreedom
"What you should do is exactly the kinds of things that are going to lead to hysteria among privileged and powerful people" - Noam Chomsky
From germany: just like the bankster are working on a global scale, so are the 99%. Keep on going occupiers around the world. Its time for some real change!
go usa we are the 1 percent
You, 1% are scared to death.You can run, but you cant hide, we are the 99%.
you are not the 99 percent! read some of the post here! half the people on your page don't agree with your message! you are a very small percent! Get with the program! American is not happy with what your doing! do to Washington were the real problem is!!!!!!! Waste of time!
yeah GO 1% because you are the problem with this entire country!
This looks like some third world country today where the press are not allowed to view or cover police action & court orders are not obeyed.
I live in a third world country. Occupy has not even been able to start here. The cops would not tolerate it. Consider yourself lucky to be in America.
Do you live in Canada? If so, that isn't exactly a third world country.
I live in Indonesia.
Oh. Where in Indonesia do you live? I was in Bali last winter.
As a matter of interest - Where is the 'Second World' ?
Third world is an expression that comes from the cold war. At that time, there was a dualism between capitalism and communism. Countries that weren't independent and did not participate in this dualist struggle were considered third world countries. Capitalist and communist countries were tied in first place.
I sort of knew that already. It was something of a rhetorical question ! Thanks for underlining the reason though. People tend to use language without thinking, just because they hear other people or the 'media' using certain expressions. You are obviously not such a person, you Know what you are talking about ! I date back to that time ! Strictly speaking, countries that did not participate in the dualism between the Capitalist and Communist Countries were usually known as the 'Unaligned' Countries, Yugoslavia being an example. The 'Third World' referred to mainly 'Underdeveloped' or 'Ex-Colonial' Countries and became associated with being 'Poor'. Hence the current usage.
Thank you for the precision. 'Third World' is not an expression I like, nor usually use. I hate it as it only serves to create an artificial separation between the humans on this planet. I used it in this thread to respond to ljampole who had made use of it in his original comment. see: http://occupywallst.org/article/call-occupy/#comment-357764
I should have placed it between apostrophes to make my position clear. Nice call. You're sharp!
Yes - I think that we got crossed wires whilst trying to do the same thing ! I agree, the expression 'Third World' is not only out of date, it is sort of insulting. It is often used by our adversaries, so we don't want to encourage its use among ourselves ! Also, I think that I got it slightly wrong, I think they used to call Yugoslavia one of the 'Non-Aligned' Nations but it is a long while ago now ! It is great to see people really discussing what they mean by the language they use. Ideology is encoded within Language, so this is a necessary part of what we are all trying to do. Having said that, it does not mean a lot 'splitting hairs' when the Police are beating you up ! All the best and keep up the good work !
In a third world country this would have ended long ago.
Looks like that's the direction we are headed.
i have to argue that the discourse of the 'third world' helps to perpetuate class dynamics and the hegemony of the elite and corporate powers. be careful, what you say here actually lends to the ideas of materialism and monetary value that allow the banksters, private interest groups, governmental and civil bourgeousie to maintain their power and legitimacy.
When I use "Third world" It conjures up people working for pennies,living in filth,while their resources are robbed and their countries polluted. We need to bring "quality of life" to all human beings,not lower our standards.Take note,corporate America..Be careful how your mind "percieves". Sincerely,AL Leavitt
I live in what is considered a "third world" country. It's sunny everyday, people live well, people are social and drink coffee together, and a lot of foreigners enjoy the sun and surf all day. I'm in Indonesia, Bali.
you are 'perceiving' the third world as low class, poor, barbaric, 'filthy'. this is a huge assumption and generalization. It is clear here how you are defining the so-called 'third world', and juxtaposing it to the West. This dichotomy gives power to materiality and modernization. What do you define as 'quality of life'? The theft of resources you describe is predominantly an action of the G20 countries... you're ignoring global power relations completely, and how this is directly related to the power of wall street
hi I'm from gaza and I have something to say If u ever want this movement to stay strong u need to organize ur selves into a political party and that would give u better tools to do what should be done
Like Hezbollah?
Well they are very well organised, ask the Israelis. You could learn a lot from them, especially with regards to the virtues of not engaging in Usury, one of the main causes of the 'Financial Crisis'.
Did NYPD commit a crime last night? What are the two elements of a crime? Damaged property or an injured party. I believe both elements of a crime exist! Maybe some lawyer, with teeth, willing to stand for the people of America, will finally take a Stand against this Crime!
This just in from the daily news. Updated at 12:58 ET.
Manhattan Supreme Court Justice Lucy Billings signed an early-morning order temporarily barring cops from keeping protesters and tents out of Zuccotti Park.
But within hours, she was off the case as court administrators prepared to randomly choose a new judge — and excluded Billings’ name from the list of candidates.
Well I guess anyone who thought there might be some due process here may end up with a surprise.
How can they "remove" a judge from adjudicating? The sheer corruption evident in this is just amazing. It's a story that should be emphasized.
She is a real estate judge. OWS lawyers woke her to sign an order that they knew she would approve even though she never hears cases like this. OWS tried to rig the process in their favor, just like a corporation would...
Oh, I see, then if a given judge is not the "right" judge, then his or her decision should be void. Right, uh huh....
The judge that ruled on the restraining order was chosen at random - not by an institution which that judge used to be a part of.
Wow! Not sure why that surprises me, but it does.
Today the corporations and monied run our country.
There is a need for a 28th Amendment to our Constitution to restore rights to we the people.
2 Upon leaving public service, no former member of Congress shall be employed as a lobbyist in any form.
There are 5 senators who drafted a bill like that.... getting it through the bagger held congress will be impossible though.
Its easy. If you want us to leave, address our concerns.
don't you have to come up with concerns before they are addressed? no, not each of your personal concerns that make no sense. come up with a joint concern that is feasible and makes sense.
The attack on OWS is an insult on many levels. As a NYC residents, we all pay income tax to the city. The police department and mayor has bloodied our hands with his use of violence to suppress free speech.
This year, we have had 1 vote only, to elect City Supreme Court Justices, and Borough Court Justices. How is it that so much of our money (taken through income tax, tolls, sales tax, and high metro prices) can be directed and controlled by so few without any say from the people they are taking from?
This city and this country are in desperate need of public space to debate and discuss ideas. Personally, I'd like to see broadcasters who have exclusive rights to their spectrums by the FCC actually pay a property tax on the public property they have, and use that money to set aside just one frequency for hosting public interest issues, presidential debates, etc.
It is true, the airwaves belong to the people. The FCC has no right to dictate the use of the airwaves. That is also a violation of freedom of speech.
As expected the corporate and political elite are trying to shut down the protests by nudging local authorities into action. They will continue to make it harder and harder to be heard. For those working stiffs who can't participate but who certainly agree and sympathize I suggest you protest will your wallet.
DO NOT BUY anything you don't absolutely need. Buy from small companies (preferable US) buy local and buy fresh when you can. And register with your local Freecycle (on yahoo groups)where you can get rid of things you don't need or want, thus saving someone else from having to buy anything and you can get what you need without buying. We all save money, keep stuff out of the landfill and at the same time protest by not buying from THEM.
This is NOT a defeat for #OWS This is a VICTORY!
Hooray for the movement! I am tremendously proud to be watching real human beings stand up and repudiate the corruption that has demoralized and destroyed so many of our lives. This is only the beginning. A magnificent start to the reclimation of the human spirit that lives in ordinary human beings. By the way, the whole "Get a Job" noise is before your time. Unless you are 80+ years old, and pining for Richard and Spiro.
With the "reassignment" of the judge in Manhattan, perhaps the time has come to refer to Republicans as Banana Republicans, and ask them to differentiate themselves, to prove that they are NOT what we claim they have become.
With today's action against Liberty Plaza, it is now clear that the United States has devolved into the Police States of America. No, we aren't Syria - no one is being shot or tortured...yet. But like all things police states exist on a continuum, and while the P.S.A. is not on the high end, it is much further along than most other Western, industrialized countries. For this we should be ashamed, and about this we must act.
OWS deserves a standing ovation for peacefully enduring yet again the worse America has to offer as a result of police brutality and blatant irreverence towards the constitution on behalf of Mayor Bloomberg and the NYPD. Seems the mayor and the NYPD are well rehearsed at bending over for the almighty dollar. Overjoyed to see that you are re-grouping and forging onward. Sorry about losing your library and kitchen as well as all other donations. What is important here is that OWS can not and will not be stopped. Liberty Square is the genesis of something greater and bigger than a baton or any number of human vessels in riot gear. God bless you one & all! Keep fighting the good fight! Keep it righteous! Keep it peaceful, Don’t keep it secret! Embrace not disgrace.
After turning off my mainstream television and educating myself for the past year, I truly do not understand why anyone would choose to continue with a system that was conceived by the Romans and other extinct civilizations. We have the technology to save humanity and our planet. Yet we allow these ideals to continue to cloud our vision of what we need. If you take the materialistic blinds off and see the state of our world, you have a much more realistic view of what is needed. Peace, love, respect and human growth. Not profits. Think outside of capitalism. Resources are finite.
The phrase 'Third World' is an outdated term. It dates from the 'Cold War' when there was still a 'Second World' , namely the Socialist Countries. The Capitalist Imperialists have already got rid of virtually all of this 'Second World' . There are now only Two Worlds. The World of the 99% and the World of the 1%. but within the 99% there are a significant number of people who are either too lazy, scared, ignorant or just plain busy to think about their limited freedom. The Movement will only begin to make a real difference when it starts to attract this group. Until then, the 1% will keep people divided and maintain their monotonous, pointless reign. This is my message to the 1%... I could forgive you for being oppressive, greedy, egotistical... I can forgive you for all of that ... but what I find unforgivable is your utter mediocrity .... your small mindedness ... in a word ... You BORE me .... Yes Really BORE me to tears... that is why I personally dislike you so much ... you create such a pointless, boring existence. In the end , I believe that this is what is going to tip the scales. The world you have created is just too plain mediocre to survive - it goes against the essential vein of Curiosity - which makes us Human. The Occupation at New York provided a breath of fresh air, in the jaded world that the BORING Elite have created for us. Now it is back, temporarily, to the mind numbing , auto-cue reading 'media', with their cloned News Readers and Pundits, all jabbering away from their crib sheets. However , do not despair. They have to Clear Every Camp that is Set Up. They have to Break Up Every Demonstration that is mounted, Every March that is Marched. This is a Campaign of Attrition. Keep on Going. Keep on Organising. Keep on Challenging Every Legality, Every Obstruction, Every Objection. Wear them Out. Keep at Them. Never Stop and be Unrelenting. If you can do that , a crack in their Armour will Open Up. It is a matter of Sheer Persistence.
What you say is refreshing. But.... It avoids considering what they can take against our "repeat" demos. Even with the current laws, Obama can declare an emergency and order all demonstrators moved to existing concentration camps, and assigned forced labor for the national good. Or, new draconian laws: Declaring dissent threatening the existing order or society as being a form of domestic terrorism, punishable by special courts. Believe me these are people who are experts at screwing each other in politics, commerce, finance, etc. And they have built up this intelocking mess we are mired in today. So don't come with any simple solutions.
Yes, do do repeats. But be aware we have to get smarter with other disruptive tactics inside the system. Just as Ellsberg did, and Manning is alleged to have done----and in effect being punished for it already now.
Let me give an example of the singer at the APEC conference who sang a protest song for 45 minutes at the banquet. Yeah, he got off this time because Obama likes him, or so. But in reality, if the signal had been given he would have been rushed by several agents, their bodies blocking all views, he would have been shot dead, and a "throw down" weapon placed conveniently in his hand as damning evidence of his intent of assassination, etc. Not possible? They shot Kennedy didn't they. Both of them and MLKjr. Get a grip on yourselves and stop believing in them.
That's why they are the 1 percent and we are the 99.
Go and watch "Brazil" a few times. And Blade Runnerl Or your own choice. But get wise. Trust only your friends. But as 1984 proves, and does stories from USSR in the 30' prove, don't put that trust to too great a test.
Thanks for replying. You are right. The 'Powers that be' can do all the things that you suggest but that is up to them. At the moment, they say that we live in a Democracy and have the right to Dissent. If they then deny those rights, in the way that you describe, then we have forced them out into the open. We have forced them to show their true colours. The struggle then moves into a totally different phase and that would demand different tactics or even strategy. However, even in that case, persistence is the key. Agreed, it would be a case of 'persisting' in a different mode but persist we must. You can't take the view of 'oh we must not push them too far or Goodness Knows WHAT they might do'. No - You have to Push them and see just how far they ARE prepared to go. There are Many Decent People in America. I am not an American and tend, sometimes, to regard (wrongly) Americans as being just products of the System and so forth. This is too cynical. Even among the 1% there are people who would get very restive among their own kind, if the sort of things which you describe started to happen. You have to Challenge the System to get itself to Declare itself. Is it Really True to the Constitution or is it in Violation of it? If you don't Test things out by Exercising your Constitutional Rights, you will never know the answer to that question and neither will they. Fear cannot rule your life. As Alexander Solzhenitsyn put it 'Do Not Fear Them Do Not Believe Them and Do Not Ask Them For Anything'. I Do take you point though. I am no Hero and don't know how I would react to being 'rounded up'. What I do know is that I cannot live like a Sheep. I am not prepared to just nod my head and agree. At the very least, I want to be able to say 'Well OK but Only Because You Forced Me to Submit, I do this under Duress'. Also, remember that it is a Big Decision for even the 1% to Violate the Constitution. They are Not All United in their Greed, No Honour amongst thieves. If a President Suspended the Constitution there is such a thing as a Rival. There are such things as a Coup. It is not So Simple for them to just ride roughshod over Human Rights. Our quiescence and silence is much more dangerous for us, than is making a noise. Again, Solzhenitsyn in the 'Gulag Archipelago' has a Chapter named 'Arrest'. In that Chapter, he points out that the people who shouted and made a noise sometimes got out of it but the people who went quietly just - disappeared. 'Do Not Go Gentle Into that Good Night ... Rage ... Rage ... Against the Dying of the Light'
They have under Bush passed the Patriot Act, Obama has revived the Terror Act of 1917, FEMA and its contractors have plants for evacuee camps, there are new laws giving the President expanded powers of declaring national emergencies, and of forcing people to do as they are told quite simply-----as did Bloomberg when the hurricane approached. The point I'm trying to make is that they have already made their move------pre-OWS. So what comes next from them?
With a view to what they have done in 10 years, I fear far worst things.
Well, the system is declaring itself. It is no use 'fearing worst things'. You just have to keep going and see if cracks open up in the system. My point is, it is a mistake to think that your adversary is United all the time. They are not. They have internal debates at the top, just as we do at the bottom. OWS is presenting them with a problem. Escalating the situation produces problems for them as well as solutions. Some sort of 'Social Contract' is needed to make the system work. They know that. They reserve for themselves the 'power' to do just about anything but in practice even they don't want to use all the ammunition in their arsenal. It is a bit like Nuclear Weapons. Countries like to have them because of the 'leverage' it gives them but know that it is impractical to use them because the damage would be universal. It is like that with all the 'powers' you are afraid of. They want you to be afraid of the 'threat' of using them, whilst being aware that actually using them would cause too much damage to the system. They need our cooperation and our labour to generate their wealth. What they will try to do is get the best deal possible For Them. If you Fear them too much, you will end up being bamboozled with a worst deal than the one you could have had, if you had 'stood your ground' and not been intimidated.
I'm sure their are all kinds of 1%ers that are reading your post at this very moment! I am sure they all sit in their offices and cry like little babies knowing that dennisGNUK is bored. And as for the "breath of fresh air" occupy provided? Isn't it really a smog filled park in the midst of millions of pounds of carbon?
Well - if they are 'sitting in their offices', they have my sympathy. I always found Office Work Extremely BORING. So I wish them the very best of luck with that !
Perhaps it is not so bad being part of the 99% after all, if all the 1% do is 'sit in their offices'. However, I rather think that they are more likely to be lounging on a Beach. It is the 99% who are likely to be back in the office !
I have no idea how polluted the atmosphere in the Park is but I do know that the Social Atmosphere is pretty polluted these days. The OWS was a metaphorical 'breath of fresh air' , if nothing else.
Thanks for your Positive Comment. I am sure that you have added a little ray of sunshine to the world, even if you find the air a little pungent ! Have a Nice Day !
Oh - just one more thing. Forgive me but I am a native Englishman and so English is my native language. I am therefore a bit fussy about the use of my 'mother tongue'. I must point this out - when you use a sentence like "I'm sure their are all kinds of 1%ers" ... the 'their' should be spelt 'there'. I hope that you will forgive my little correction... Toodle Ooooo !
By the way,not everybody that ever made a buck is evil,and some who are poor,have no one to blame but themsleves.We need some intelligent,patriotic billionaires & some patriotic working stiffs in this movement.It's ok to be rich(i'm not).Don't let anyone divide us from the true meaning of this movement.It's not redistribution,it's equality that we seek.It's the thought that "opportunity" still exists in this country. The rent or mortgage paid,lights & heat on,a working vehicle,maybe a vacation every five or ten years,a decent education,health care based on need not income.We used to be able to accomplish these things.Now,we are all just "hanging on" for dear life. We must FORCE a conscious on the people who have done this to us.Until the develop one,of their own volition. Sincerely,AL Leavitt
You are right. It is not always wrong to make money, it is making money by syphoning off the surplus labour of others that is the cause of the problem. Since the 1970 s the American Worker has Worked Longer Hours, Increased their Productivity more and had Lower Wages than other Workers in the 'Western' World. Lo and behold, this turned up as Massive Profits for the Corporations. The American Worker was then encouraged to Borrow Money, over and above the Wage, in order to obtain the 'American Dream'. The Banks, which were already enjoying the Inflows from the Huge Profits, then made even more money by charging Interest on all the Credit Cards and Loans made to the Workers. They then thought of something else, they Loaned Even More Money out to the Workers to Finance their Mortgages. Now agreed, the Workers should not have taken out those Loans but they were under a double pressure. First, to meet a 'Lifestyle' which was constantly presented to them as being the 'Ideal American' Lifestyle and second the fact that their Wages were kept Low, despite being Highly Productive and Working Long Hours. These 'genius' Billionaire Corporations did not make these huge Profits by being 'Innovative' they made them by Paying Relatively Low Wages, whilst hooking up the Workers to Computers and Machinery designed to increase the Productivity and pressuring the Workers to Work Long Hours into the bargain. That is where the Profits came from, they came from the Surplus Labour Extracted from the American Worker. It is this sort of 'Wealth Generation' that must be challenged. Not, as you say, genuine innovators or hard working business men and women, nobody has a problem with them. It is the mechanism of disguised Exploitation, masquerading as 'innovation' which needs to be challenged. That and the Banks which merely hoards this syphoned off Wealth and then Speculates, Swindles, engages in Usury plus abuse of 'Derivatives' and all the other things which led to them having to be 'bailed out' by the very same Workers who Generated the Wealth in the First Place. You have been and Are being Screwed. No Doubt about it !
2011 has not been a waste. It really has only just begun.
The numbers and faces of this movement will change and grow in the coming year. 2011 was the spark or rather the whisper. In 2012 the message will thunder around the world, people from all walks will move and stand. The problems in America are no different than the problems faced by average people everywhere - from Eurasia, the Americas and Africa.
To the occupiers -stay open to everyone and all people because no matter what you believe spiritually, philosophically or politically; we are all being screwed by the same thing.
Right now lines are being drawn and people are learning on what side people stand. Mr. Bloomburg and his type are delusional - the game they endorse can only work when multitudes fail. The mechanics of the system people like him endorse are corrupt, flawed, immoral and have led to so many problems globally. Sadly money is like crack to these people. Power like some god. Pathetic - most of their money does not exist. Yet they fear losing it.(laugh) What sad people they truly are - look at the Pharaohs of Egypt; worshiped like gods; had infinitely more power than anyone on this earth today - where are they? Dust.
The soldiers that lay dead or maimed from so many wars around the world, genocide after genocide, brutal rape, torture and murder of women and children- Did they die and still die so the likes of Bloomburg and friends could sip wine? Drive our nations, people and business to bankruptcy? Did they fight for the corruption that invades every nation like some disease? For leaders to squander our future? NO
We as a global community dishonor our dead and the living with our failing in the here and now - we have a moral obligation to end the perverse nonsense - end the justice of injustice, end the corruption and hold all that have profited from so much blood, sweat and toil; too hold them to account.
It would be more financially feasible, viable and provide greater value to society to imprison the 1% and let so many wrongly imprisoned people go free. Steal a few bucks, smoke a joint and jail - steal retirements, billions, contribute greatly to social breakdown, war,poverty,suicides and receive a bonus.
The economic terrorists out there should be hunted down and tried for crimes against humanity.
Keep up the good work to all that have occupied wherever that occupation takes place - in 2012 we will see many streets around the world occupied.
Keep the fires burning and don't lose faith in what you believe - its not wrong.
breaking news: Bloomberg overturned by court.http://www.cnbc.com/id/45303217
BTW how do you all feel about being associated, with the Tea Party movement. Which I find so strange, and many on here saying it's Obama. It has been due to the Republicans they put us here in this spot, in the first place. Mostly durning Reagan's term that many of his Cabinet Members left after 2-5 years in office to work for many of the companies that they pushed their agendas for. Start reading more about politics who benefited from what. I watch & read & learn. But both parties have to stop letting big Corporations push their own agendas on the people of…. The United Staes of America!!!!!!!!
OWS is the inspiration to the world to attain true democracy. You can win the war and France is with you
The police will change their tactics now and prevent other camps being built. That is the next challenge. Converging on Washington is a great idea but the police will move in there too. Keep going! Keep growing! You have billions of people behind you!
But if OWS does converge on Washington, there will be too many for the police to handle and on top of that isn't it strength in number? If OWS is able to shut down Washington, then congress will listen.
Been in government. Congress won't listen. They are designed not to listen. It's like asking the war machine to stop war. That's why OWS is essential. It circumvents the system.
OWS can't circumvent anything. They have zero power. Zero influence. Zero chance.
However, if OWS is able to shut down the federal government they'll listen.
billions lol?! hippies, they all stink
I only liked your comment to improve your points which are in the negative. I hope they dont remove you comments. Though I disagree with you completely it is people like you that make these comments interesting because it fuels me to respond. With that said please define hippie, and if it applies to me I'll give you "billions" if it doesnt than you should really never generalize this movement again.
Fire obama, fire the congress, fire the mayors.We The People own this country. Lets show the Peoples Power.
We have to occupy voting boots come november 2012.No more dems and reps.Both parties are corrupt, and represent the 1%.Vote them all out.Period.The stakes are high.WE THE PEOPLE OWN THE COUNTRY.
Political parties are for taking over the government. Check out the Free Parliamentary Party, we're trying to win as a team of 1000:
http://www.usparliament.org/google2012.php
Aipac is doing everything in the book...the parasite rule has to come down.
I agree voting is the way to go, but why didn't people vote last week?
I did vote. We chose our City Supreme Court Justices. That's all that was available.
NYC does not have Propositions like California. There is, in fact, little to nothing that we can actually vote about.
What I'm trying to say is that a huge turnout, regardless of what was being voted on, could have sent a very strong message. I think an opportunity was missed.
That's what I was trying to do myself. Unfortunately, there were only 3 parties that fielded candidates at all: Republican, Democrat, Conservative. None of the candidates had a solid history or policy on anything.
I'm not sure what we're supposed to be doing next. I vote in every election, write my senators, representative, and even the president from time to time. I've been doing this for years and only received generic form letters that don't even apply to my questions.
Your best bet is to encourage and help people to vote, especially those sympathetic to your cause.
Writing, unless your exceptionally eloquent, doesn't do much. Usually some underling just skims it and marks a tally for your position. Getting another person to vote your way is at least a magnitude more effective.
Check out the 8th USA Parliament's voting system, we're looking for people like you.
http://www.usparliament.org
OBAMA wants to OCCUPY the WHITE HOUSE for another 4 years
We The People have to occupy the House, the Congress, the States, come november 2012.
Yea we do, just not this election.
I voted--I wrote in Guy Fawkes....
But when you talk about destruction, you can count me out
nothing to vote for. Same ole, same ole.
Time is getting shorter and shorter. 2011 has been wasted. We're going so slow that at current pace, "Battle of the Bulge" is not expected for 175,000 years in the future.
For example, the 8th USA Parliament is in it's 5th US presidential cycle online since 1996, and we've only been censored and ignored. And we HAVE a platform and elected leaders.
Things are not good.
So, your parliament is a Libertarian party?
Thank you for your interest. No, we aren't a Libertarian Party, we're outsiders from all parties.
We are trying to access the ballot as a Constitution/Green/Libertarian/Free Parliamentary Coalition, but with 100 "seats" (going to 1000 on 1/1/2012), there is actually 100 possible categories/independents on the "BoD".
We are trying to "take over" the Libertarian and Green Parties, because currently the Constitution/Green/Libertarians are hostile towards all parties but their own. The Free Parliamentary Party, my category, is not hostile towards all other categories, and we're the main sponsors, with the Green Tea Party and a few others.
I hope that explains better, we allow all parties (and independents) and there are no road blocks towards each individual's party/category name, as long as slander or hate is not used in the party name. When slander is used, as the preparer of the ballot, the slanderer gets categorized as Anarchist Party when they refuse to comply.
Thanks for the interest!
--James Ogle [Free Parliamentary]
Go BarrOOgle 2012
Bobby, I think you have a PR or marketing problem. Your website makes you look like some kind of silly Recipe Sharing email or something, where you put your name at the top and everyone moves off and blahblah. Sorry - I really couldn't make heads or tails of it.
If you have a serious movement that you think presents a viable alternative to the current status quo I suggest that you consider finding a different way of presenting your cause, because your website is kinda incoherent. I'm interested in alternatives, which is why I followed your link. But I can't get a sense from your website why you believe that would be a better way to a truly representative government.
Thanks for checking it out, sorry you couldn't understand it. The US Parliament site a compilation of ranked choice voting, electing 100-member parliaments, for sixteen consecutive years.
I'm actually the founder, James O. Ogle, and Google derived from my initials in October of '97 in Usenet when their founder discovered my activities when his search engine was a no-name program.
He asked "what is a joogle?" and the rest is history. Because of my name he misspelled the number googol when he started his site. Cool eh? He was able to take the name, incorporate and sell shares, and now it's a multi-billion gateway. The system for electing, where ranked choice voting is used, may have even influenced his search engine design using "page rank".
The parliament elects 100 names through ranked choice voting, where each name only needs .99% plus one vote, to be elected to each "seat". The combined results of the 100 elected seats totaled creates a satisfaction guranteed level of 99% plus 100 votes, that count to elect the 100 names.
It's based on stacks of ballots cast as proof, and the four-year cycles are timed with the US Constitution, except we end our cycle ends about 90 days before the "real" elections, the first Tuesday of November (last week).
If you ever want to get a better feel, maybe you should try "buying in", with a cast vote. Have you ever ranked multiple choices in a Sainte-Lague parliament seat distribution system? On the web page you may rank names in any of the sixty full ministries, and you may rank decisions too, using the new "ranked choice consensus voting", which is based on algebra and not addition, like plurality consensus voting systems everyone else uses.
Admittedly, it is difficult to learn. You pretty much have to create your on eballoot, email it to the volunteer vote counters (vvc@usparliament.org) and only ranked choice numbers can be used, or we contact you and ask you to try again. Most people never get it, and it took me years and years to fully understand how and why the algebra in pure proportional representation in multi-winner districts, is better than the addition and single winner districts. For example, we can't elect a gender balanced team in single-winner districts, but one advantage of two-member districts (prez/vp, chair/vice chair, gov/lt.gov, etc.) is that when 2/3rds of the voters alternate genders when they vote, you're guaranteed the top female and top male (or versa visa) is all two-member districts.
That's because only 33.33% plus one vote is needed to elect each name for a total of 66.66% plus two votes, a much higher satisfaction level than single winner districts where the guaranteed satisfaction level is 50% plus one vote in single-winner districts under ranked choice voting.
Thanks very much again CindyPsych, for taking the time to browe around the site. It's pretty unique, as there are no single-winner elecetd positions, rules or planks, it's all multi-winner districts of two or more.
Be sure to contact us if you want your ear to be talked off about how this works, I love writing and speaking about this.
Best,
JOOgle
http://www.usparliament.org
PS CindyPsyche, if you have any suggestions on how to make the site more easy to understand, please don't hesitate to email or call and let us know by using the "contact us" tab where we're easily reached.
and vote in who, more 1%ers?
Vote for your own name #1 today.
Please feel free to call me if you need some help.
415-686-1996
Write in Bernie Sanders.... we can draft him LOL!
We tried to, but he's too big a name, and probably wouldn't return a phone call, email or give us the time of day.
However, if you want to nominate his name to the New England Super-state Parliament (ss1) anyway, then nominate his name here and I will edit the web page to include his name. But we need your name too, and anyone else, especially people who at least know their name is on the parliament.
I am a volunteer web page designer for the parliament, and as we get new nominations, I add the name/avatar/anonymous to the web site.
Then if the person wants their name off, I also happily remove the name with no fanfare at all.
Click below here for the names so far:
http://www.usparliament.org/ss1.php
Although I agree that our choices are limited, I have genuine concerns that if people write in their own names then they might as well have not voted at all. And if too many people abstain, either by writing in their own name or by not voting at all, then we have no control over who is in charge. Do you really want to have Newt Gingrich as president, or Herman Cain? Do you REALLY think that the Democratic and Republican parties are equally guilty? Yes, there is plenty of guilt to go around and no one is innocent, but do you think we'd be in the same place right now if we'd had a Democratic House and Senate for the past 3 years? Right now, the complete deadlock is making it impossible for anyone to solve any problem. We need our government to start working again, and throwing your vote away isn't the answer.
The point is that the vote, the voice of the people, is long lost. If nothing else, mass self write-ins illustrate that "None of the clowns in the parade represent me. I therefore nominate myself." The wasted vote happens when people choose whomever corporations pimp: wasted because they have colluded to not look out for the interests of we the people.
I'm talking about voting for your name on the 8th USA Parliament. We don't put up roadblocks, and we're looking for voters. Right now, you can vote for your name in any of the sixty full Cabinet Ministries, but you have to use the sign up page, and you have to make your own eballot to break into the team. Anyone who uses ranked choice voting is guaranteed to get on the team. Just cont5act us if/when you need help.
Forget about what you think you know about politics, we have 1000 seats opening up in 2012, 1000 possible parties, and we're launching the national "BoD" on 1/1/2012.
Meanwhile you may still elect your name to a Cabinet Minister, each one is looking for twelve Directors.
http://www.usparliament.org/signup.php
lol, i love it. hey, if you have a detailed idea about this, could you drop it on the forum page on http://citicommons.com ?
I just posted the monthly bulletin on your forum page. Thanks for the tip! I'm looking for free speech forums that don't put word limits.
http://www.citicommons.com/forum
Please keep me posted, and feel free to contact the 8th USA Parliament if/when you ever need more posts to your forum, or if/when you need help on understanding how it works.
We'll be electing 1000 names with .999% (or 1/1001ths) plus one vote each in 2012, and pretty much everyone who gets a tic gets a "seat" up to the first 1000 names. It's not connected to "real" elections, so you may self categorize with any party/category you wish, use any avatar/anonymous too (you know who you are).
Would love to but how?
The 8th USA Parliament does things by making decisions, based on votes cast as proof.
Currently we need Ministers in the PacificNW and the Mid-West Super-state Parliaments. Please contact me if you can't figure out how to sign up.
Everyday is important, and by making decisions as a team, we can take on bigger projects as a team I guess.
--James
Vote,Vote, Vote them out.
Make no mistake, the 1% will never ever give up the power, period. We have to change our government, it is corrupt, and represents the 1%.We have hundreds of bright individuals, who can do much better.Lets bring em in, endorse em, and vote for em.I, myself can bring in thousends of people to voting boots.WE THE PEOPLE, WE ARE THE 99%
How can you make the government not "corrupt" when they MUST take corporate money to be elected. I'll never understand why we rail against the "cop on the take" and then give Al Capone the tax break.
Fight corruption where it starts: corporations.
Yes, then you are who we need. Please do contact me so we can start working together in coordination.
--James
All these things just shows that we´re on the rigt track. The elites are starting to feel threatened and desperate. Police brutality is something we must expect on the road to freedom
Fight non-violently back - REoccupy.
"What you should do is exactly the kinds of things that are going to lead to hysteria among privileged and powerful people" - Noam Chomsky
Keep on growing, keep on fighting! Yours s struggleforfreedom
Agree with the intent - need an action plan.
If you can work on the national, state or county level, or all three at once, check out the 8th USA Parliament to vote on decisions on how to move forward decisively, purposefully and focused.
--James http://www.usparliament.org
This kind of arrogant language is not productive.
The shame of the OWS movement is they have failed to take the next logical step, which is Occupy the White House.. They have repeatedly said the mivement is not ready. That is a lie. The OWS General Assembly and the DNC have repeatly met in secret to keep the movement from Occupying the White House from fear of offending the current President. Shame!! The President has stated publicly he supports the movement, but behind the scenes is trying to block the movement with continued distraction. The fact is the President has given specific instructions to the Capitol Police that if the White House is Occupied, that they are to stand down, and not steal Tents and Generators. Yet OWS in it's corrupt secret meetings are trying to continue to persuade the ranks they are doing the right thing for now...WRONG.. It is time to demand full support for the "Occupy the White House" Movement. It is time to remind the President that the White House is the peoples house!! He serves at our pleasure. OWH Now!!! Promote the full Occupation of the White House" now!! Don't be fooled by OWS/DNC infiltrators. OWH Now!!! Today!! Take back the peoples house and demand real change...
Mi sincero respecto por toda la gente " accross the USA ", que esta luchando por el 99%.Desde Spain mi solidaridad con ustedes.
The thing I keep hearing from the media and politicians is that the occupy movement can't be taken seriously because it does not have specific demands or a specific message. It would seem the this site should start creating a credible list of these demands. For one: If the banks got billions of dollars in bailouts then the debt of the 99% should be greatly relieved or eliminated. People whose homes were foreclosed upon by the banks should be allowed to return to them.
Instead of Occupying Wall Street, why don't you all encourage the people who were screwed over by the loan crisis, to Occupy their homes? Why not Occupy the yards of the 1%, we know who they are and where they live.
If every person who lost their house in foreclosure, moved back into their house or refused to leave their house, there is nothing that the banks, or the respective sheriff's departments could do. The Occupy Wall Street volunteers could then Occupy these foreclosures.
As well, organizing a tax revolt by having every person refuse to file and pay taxes would also result in direct changes--the inability of the IRS to audit or jail 300 Million Americans for failing to file and pay their personal income taxes would definitely effect change.
Why don't you start educating people to start Occupying the lobbyist offices of the Corporations and Occupying the Congressional Offices of your respective districts and Occupying the Democratic, Republican and Tea Party Offices?
Honestly, to be quite frank, the people who go to work everyday on Wall Street, have no power to change anything. It's the lobbyists that the 1% pay (which, are not even remotely on Wall Street) They pay the lobbyist, and the lobbyist pays the Congressman, and Congress makes the rules.
So please, pull your heads out of your collective asses, quit jacking off in the drum circle and actually do something that has a direct effect on the policies instead of interfering with the small businesses who are a part of the 99%.
[Deleted]
And you're a decent human being? Wow... what power to judge you have!
You have planned your demonstrations and actions, and I think I've found one song that sums it all up beautifully. It's a Hawaiin singer named Makana who usually specializes in traditional Hawaiin songs, but man-oh-man did he write a doozy with this one. Check it out...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=xq3BYw4xjxE
OWS deserves a standing ovation for peacefully enduring yet again the worse America has to offer as a result of police brutality and blatant irreverence towards the constitution on behalf of Mayor Bloomberg and the NYPD. Seems the mayor and the NYPD are well rehearsed at bending over for the almighty dollar. Overjoyed to see that you are re-grouping and forging onward. Sorry about losing your library and kitchen as well as all other donations. What is important here is that OWS can not and will not be stopped. Liberty Square is the genesis of something greater and bigger than a baton or any number of human vessels in riot gear. God bless you one & all! Keep fighting the good fight! Keep it righteous! Keep it peaceful, Don’t keep it secret! Embrace not disgrace.
bWAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAH! Police brutality!!!! Always cracks me up how you assholes disobey the law, are given plenty of warning, and then all piss and whine when the police finally come around to discipline your 3-year old asses. And it's NOT police brutality, btw. I've seen all your "horrific" clips---they put little twisty plastic handcuffs on you and make you get down on the street because you won't comply any other way. BOO FUCKING HOO. Now, if they'd bash you over the head a few times like a baby harp seal and actually draw BLOOD, THAT would be police brutality. Just sayin.... ;)
An unnecessary act of aggression and or display of excessive force, to include verbal intimidation constitutes police brutality. Got this from one of the ‘three year olds’ in our neighborhood.. Disobedience?!?!?! I just have to laugh… and then pray for you. Go in peace by way you came.
Now WHO took the cover off his cage ?
They didn't disobey the law, Einstein.
Bravo! This is all about! Seeking the Integral consciousness – here in Portugal, there in the USA, in China or anywhere in the World where People will confront the unknown, the fear, and themselves! But, some things are unfortunately eternal - there will always be people ready to hide behind the scenes, behind the words, the tanks, behind the fear and the power. We are gradually losing our humanity, our connections with all living things, with or without realizing it. I, no longer dream that the better Woman and the better Man who want Peace and will fight for it, who want a Fair world and will die for it, who want Life and will live for it, will take the reins of man/womankind, but, there is no other way if we want to save our Humanity. If I ever need to consider mi suicide (and exclusively mine) to save the Humanity, I hope I will be strong enough to put an end in my life when the moment will arrive - Standing in front of the inhumanity!
Be free, be loved!
ZP
We don't want suicide bombers (I know that's not what you meant), we need people to live for the revolution, not die for it, dear comrade. I worked for child psychiatrists, and know that anytime someone talks about suicide, you have to take it seriously. Please don't let the condition of the world bring you down, we NEED you. There are people and medications available to help, and it's nothing to be ashamed of. Depression's considered the common cold of psychiatry, millions of people suffer from it. Please don't try to pull yourself up by your boot straps, and please find someone you can talk to.
Please name some politicians who you trust .... there are NONE in my state of Louisiana so who can I vote for?
You can't vote for what isn't there... namely an honest politician!
There are a few, but you are right, none that I know of in Lousiana. I don't live in Ohio, but I think Dennis Kucinich has consistently been on the right side of history, despite several assassination attempts and redrawing district lines to remove his seat. I also have a lot of respect for John Conyers and Bernie Sanders.
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i don't think he ever said that. He did say, "There is no such thing as a free lunch"
PEACE... I just discovered this.. i like the spirit and the energy.. i global movement to take back our power we gave away to bankers,politicians, and rulership.. A lot good info here too.. i am with you in spirit 100%.. Unfortunateley most Americans are so conditioned to fear and enslavement this seems like a waste of time to them because they still have trust and belief in not the government, but in GOD. That eventually GOD will eventually make things better like magic, becuz of the traps of romantizism of the american dream and a value system of becoming a popular wealthy prestigious person... Money has become our GOD and in order to get people to realize their cuurent erroneous relation to this life, they have to be educted and shown that Money and the Creators of that money is not only Corrupt, but fictitious, irrelevant, and offensive.. People beleive they need money and leadership.. People have not believe in self leadership and responsibility by not understanding balance of power relationships.. We have realize that we have to take this to the people as well as to the self appointing authority.. Before we fight we have to know what and who we are dealing with in order to know how to fight..Get rid of the idea of a Monetary/Social/Political Savior and establish the reality of us saving ourselves and man's real potential is to be GOD. We shall no longer make any of the so called authorities GODS above us in status and heirarchy for they are not worthy of praise...We will claim our own authority on this earth , at this time, and existence.Exercising our freedom ,power, and self determinations based upon our common human interest of abundance and love. Right now!!!! By any means Necessary!!
I think that we are coming to the end of the corporate rule, rule by the top 1% of the population. They have trashed our natural environment, centralized and industralized our food supply, poisoned the earth so that our food is depleted of nutrients, bought our elected officials, dumbed down our citizenry and turned them into mere 'consumers', and distracted the populance with what they term popular culture, which is nothing but a distraction from the issues that matter. This system has most likely outlived it's usefulness. Time for a new way.
Stand strong.
What is this movement we call Occupy Wall street? Everything Wall St does and everything we the people do is ultimately controlled by our corrupt, and money hungry Government. Want to make a real statement? Occupy the White house, not in small groups, 1 million strong!
Make them bring in the Military to control the people, then we will see if we get our point across! I am 99% and I am tired of the government taking all of my hard earned money to feed the rich!!!!!!!!!
You misunderstand the power structure. Right now the government is controlled by Wall Street and other large corporations. Occupying the White House would only serve to inconvenience the underlings, not the real power base. You have to bring these things directly to the top, which is why they're Occupying Wall St.
No wonder Billionaire Mayor Bloomberg is opposed to the Occupy Wall Street Movement since he regretfully is a symbol of what is wrong with paper financial capitalism which has almost destroyed wealth and job creating industrial and agricultural capitalism. Resorting to fear tactics and shady accounting speculators and predators make billions whilst often destroying Main Street or the real economy i.e. the jobs and security of millions of decent hardworking people. According to Forbes Magazine Bloomberg was worth around 8 billion $ in 2008 and is worth more than double that figure according to their latest report.
bloomberg is criminal.He made his billions on wall street.He has to be arrested, and his assets frozen.His place is in jail, next to madoff.
This is a concerted well orchestrated plan to clamp down on the movement. Simultaneously cities have been raided people arrested. Portland, Oakland, San Diego, New York. This is unacceptable! This is a violation of the basic human right to free speech and to protest. The movement has to continue! This has to be looked at as a test or a problem to be overcome, a hurdle if you will. The fire has been doused but the "hot" embers remain to flare up even bigger and stronger. The time to strike hard is when they think they have won and they are complacent. Presence is the key,,ask Ghandi! did he give up? You can't let the Police state win or it's the end. Keep your faith and spirits high re-group in secrecy and come back full force in public places...shut down centers that represent inequality one at a time. Make strategic strikes on places of vulnerability and retreat. Employ the tactics of Sun Tzu's art of war. Employ the tactics of Geronimo who despite efforts of 9000 blue coats couldn't be captured. Use a strike and run tactic along with guerrilla fighting tactics in a peaceful manor, but defend yourself if you have to. Remember the police are just men like you and I. Just because they have uniforms and weapons doesn't mean you can't overcome the mindset of fear. Carry on and carry on in a vigorous and passionate fashion. It ain't over until the fat lady sings, and I heard she went on a diet!
I was unemployed for two years, a length of time I thought was impossible. I did odd jobs. I cleaned toilets, whatever. I was totally desperate. After that I finally got a part time job that paid 30-percent of the hourly rate I had been accustomed to for years, eons, which, though it hadn't changed since 1980, was way better than most.
Now some things are picking up. I migrated to other industries using my skills. I have combo of employment and freelance. At times getting close to my old rate of pay. I still have no health insurance. I still have no car -- yes, I lost transpo.
I'll never have kids now. I didn't get needed treatment.
So, when I see a complete coward like Geithner sitting there trembling, and a government that refuses to execute a single bank receivership, I am justified in feeling absolutely outraged. If I take to the streets, who will blame me? Who?
I won't be satisfied until most of K street and its career politician/lobbyists are out of jobs, until Congress gives up its perks and lives on SSI and the same health insurance as the rest of us, until anti trust laws and glass steagull return, until Bernanke and Geithner are out, until dollar diplomacy is dead, until corporations and trade policies are brought down to earth and out of psychotic, exploitative abandon and the almost monarchist extension of executive powers is reined in.
These people decided this particular American should not ever become pregnant and have kids.
And the best they can do is send police to shove people around.
They are predators.
They and their sleazy "interests" and "constituents" can go to hell
New York is founded on a contradiction: homelessness is the universally accepted penalty for those who cannot make themselves useful to the wealthy, yet homelessness is illegal. The more the city's rulers chase the OWS around, the more exposed they will become. While obviously this isn't over, it is important to remember that OWS is a consumable, like a bullet --- if it is destroyed in the process of damaging its target, that is a success. The people there will go on and come up with new names and new tactics anyway.
This moment is a reality check of sorts. You are a small dedicated group of idealists, with many ideas for fixing the nation's ills. Unfortunately some of those ideas conflict with each other and you haven't made it clear to the population in general what specific actions you want to see taken. You are commiserating with like minded individuals and don't really know what the real 99% think or feel.
What will the nation's reaction actually be? Outrage or indifference? Outrage then you're all set, general indifference then you have to do more outreach. Just hanging out in a park won't be enough to make things change.
I completely agree. It is not enough to keep shouting 'we are the 99%' if you are not engaging and connecting with the 99%. The Movement has done a great job of stirring things up and getting people to at least question the System which they live within. However, I am personally getting fed up with some of the more Grandiose Statements made about the Movements ability to 'Shut Down Wall Street' and so forth. It is simply not strong enough to do anything like that at present. It also needs to Concentrate on the Issues which Actually Affect the Lives of the '99%'. Some of the 'Guru' type stuff is creepy and annoying to most people. We need the Unions, Workers, Veterans and Students. People who have a definite Stake in the Society in which they live. The Idealists and Dreamers are Welcome too but if they become Central to this Movement, it will fail because the Dreamers are a minority. They are Not the '99%'.
There is a lot of energy, but I worry that it's not focused. Nice to see so many people, but the young demographic isn't taken seriously by politicians because it's a group that doesn't often vote.
Today's actions certainly caused disruptions, but I wonder if it gained the movement any support or if was viewed as New Yorkers would see a major snow storm. As an annoyance.
Thanks for engaging and replying. In my view, the thinking behind this movement is one of trying to generate a 'self fulfilling prophecy'. You state a big objective, like 'shutting down wall street' and then hope to mobilise vast numbers of people to make it happen. This increases the belief that 'anything is possible' and then you go for the next even bigger objective and so on. In Egypt, this worked very well. Larger and Larger crowds gathered and bigger and bigger demands were made. The problem is, there is no real objective beyond trying to get this 'Snowball' rolling. In my opinion, the Snowball has failed to gather Snow on this occasion. The Numbers were not big enough and some of the figures quoted, well I do not personally believe them. They are inflated by quite a large amount. If the movement 'stalls' in this way, there is a danger that it could evaporate as quickly as it formed. There is nothing to fall back on, should this happen. The movement is a bit like the Natural Logarithm, its derivative is equal to itself. It is possible that it might still succeed , if the Economic System starts to Collapse, which it might. The propensity for people to gather would greatly increase and this allows the whole process to start up again. The authorities must be praying for even a slight upturn of the Economy. They know that this would stop the OWS in its tracks. What bothers me about all this is , what happens after the Revolution? The system collapses, the Occupy Snowball starts Gathering and Rolling. We end up with a Huge Snowball. Everyone stands and gasps in amazement but then what? According to some of the 'Off the Planet' types, we then drift off into the Aquarius Fifth Dimension ! I don't buy that. A sophisticated Society like ours needs to keep running, post Revolution. Without any Objective, other than to 'self perpetuate' the more conventional Political Forces would move back in, just as they did in Egypt. The Movement is not giving much thought as to what its role would be - post Revolution. That is not a good thing, in my book. They ought to start addressing this now.
I probably meant 'exponential function' rather then 'natural logarithm' but you get the idea !
how about doing some research to find out what we want. It shouldn't be too hard.
For starters get ride of citizins united Bring back Glass Steagal Public financing of elections get the money out of politics implement a robin hood tax rescind the bush tax cuts
good enough for you?
Personally I'm in favor of public funding for elections, speech is speech, not dollars, get corporations, unions, lobbyists out of the game. As of right now citizens united is the law of the land. Craft something that will get through the congress and then pass the inspection of the supreme court. Glass Steagall is another matter and much easier to accomplish. For either you need people in congress.
OWS has made it clear what it wants in only the most general way, I've seen many ideas on how to accomplish those vague goals, and some that are contradictory, on here. As an organization that wishes to create change the obligation to educate people and draw in support puts the responsibility to clearly state a path to their goals on OWS.
Please don't misunderstand, I don't have a problem with many of the goals, and agree with you completely on the two you mentioned. I just see all this as wasted effort if it's only demonstrating and camping out that get done. You'll be co-opted by a political party and nothing much more then lip service will be paid to the real issues. You need popular support and if you don't have it yet then the movement needs to educate people. Public reaction to the eviction can be your barometer in this.
Do you have any particular ideas?
I've been trying to advocate increased public awareness and participation for a decade. I vote in every election, discuss things with people that I can, write my senators and representative. This OWS movement has enabled more serious discussion than anything that has existed prior.
So if you have nothing better to offer and no improvements to suggest, what is there to criticise?
I keep thinking about the tea parties success in getting people to run for office for the first time. Unfortunately when you mention that group here you run into a wall. It's not that groups goal I'm impressed with, but that they got a group of people elected from outside the normal pool of life-long politicians. OWS has the ability to field uncorrupted individuals across the nation.
I was surprised to see the 20 or 25 congresspeople elected by the tea party have such an impact on the budget debate. I'm not saying it was a good influence. It showed that change is possible. I saw OWS as a way to finally get a good conversation going and get some of their own people elected.
I too vote, but have always felt it's impossible for an individual to do much on a national basis. OWS is national though and could organize things. I see a path to real change, but I often feel discouraged when it looks like they'd rather demonstrate then actually make change happen. I feel like they are tossing away their potential because they don't know what to do or don't want to do the work at it.
I think this is a bad analogy or even a role model in method. The Tea Party was largely started and popularized by two groups: Americans for Prosperity and FreedomWorks. The same people funding those groups also own most of the media, and the Tea Party had the full-time support of at least one television network, and a sympathetic ear by most.
All the Tea Party demonstrates is that money can buy votes.
I agree totally. It's completely different than this movement.
I don't mean for it to be a role model, in terms of it's policy goals, not at all. Just as an example of what can be done at the ballot box. Civil rights groups, environmental groups, have gotten people elected to congress. The tea party just did it most recently and in just one election cycle. Their goals make people write them off as crazy. What they managed to do shows me that national change is possible. My point is that OWS is national and could do that too. I get to vote for only one representative, a national movement can field candidates across all districts. I hate to see something with such possibility not exercise this power.
I agree with you, but I'm just trying to point out some practical concerns. The Tea Party wasn't a true 3rd party, it was officially part of the Repulican party. The standards for even getting on the ballot are extremely different for parties that have been in previous elections vs. not. In most states, you need 2% of the population to sign a petition within a 6 month window in every county in the state. Other parties can dig through your forms, and if they find any discrepancies (suppose a person accidentally signed on two forms), then can scuttle the entire thing.
Also, not only will there be absolutely no media support, but there will be active opposition (just like the OWS movement today), image smearing, etc.
OWS has a lot of work to do to help organize and educate the public, to diminish the power of propaganda. Knowledge and experience are the best weapons to fight propaganda. I think a candidate will come much later.
All true, but the fact remains the tea party more often co-opted the republican ticket rather then the other way around. The philosophy of the democrat party may make it a better fit for OWS, but I'd want to see something similar. OWS running it's own candidate in a primary against the party chosen, not simply throwing support behind a career politician. The way the country is divided politically it wouldn't take many congress people to give you a strong voice.
Given that both major parties are completely bought and sold by the exact same people and lobbyists (Chamber of Congress, Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers of America, and the FIRE (Finance, Insurance, and Real Estate)), I think the candidate will not come through a major party.
That doesn't mean there are no options, however. There are a few parties that are on the ballots of nearly every state. The only one I can think of that's been in every state I've been is the Green party. It might be a good idea to put a candidate through the Green party WITHOUT any corporate money corrupting the process. That at least gets you ballot access.
Maybe, I can't escape the feeling that people in general see a third party as a lost cause or a protest vote. Co-optiing the democratic party is my first choice, but any legal action is better then just talking. That brings me back to my original point, what will the public reaction be to the eviction? Will it be enough to make one of the parties become the anti-greed party?
Of course not. If a major political party person goes against their funding sources, they're gone. In the 90's, the system of advancement within the parties was shifted to one based on how much money you donate to the party coffers. Newt Gingrich literally brought a printout with the donation amounts of each person in their meetings. Democrats followed suit.
In my book, the purpose of your vote isn't to "win" or "lose". It is to be represented. People should pick candidates that represent them, and if they pick one that doesn't, that's the only way to "lose".
Just remember, the major parties are there to give an illusion of political debate, when in reality they both implement corporate policies. The vote is kept intentionally close to give the illusion of legitimate competition. Nobody would consider the vote legitimate if it was always 90% to 10%.
However, even though the parties are doing the same thing, they have a legitimate desire to win. With typical results being 45% to 48% or so, usually a 3% difference, the vulnerability becomes apparent.
A 3rd party only has to get around 3% before major parties will be forced to adopt the positions that make them popular. If they do not, they risk losing. If the policies are adapted, then who cares what empty suit ends up in office.
This is how the socialist party made change in the 10's and 20's when their platform was an 8 hour workday, an end to racial discrimination, women's suffrage, and a post-office bank (they didn't get that one).
Exactly!
occupy black friday
What about this idea: Occupy [Your Town/city] Black Friday. Traditionally the big shopping day in US after Thanksgiving. Have people protest instead of shop. Protest peaceably at every street corner in the US, not just in city parks. Just an idea. Make it easy for ordinary folks to stand up and be counted.
The beautiful thing about the #OWS is how it illustrates the fact that our government, from local to federal, doesn't know how to actually deal with problems. Problems like homelessness, poverty, hunger, violence, and inequality... these governments just want to "EVICT" the problems as if the #OWS created the problems. These problems are endemic to our society and #OWS is just forcing us to look at them. To the local Mayors I say "Good luck with 'evicting' our nation's problems.
Of Course the homeless would join OWS. They are the most vulnerable of the 99%. The reality is, there is no space for many people at shelters. people are getting on buses to anywhere to find a place to sleep. The homeless population is exploding. Devastation by banks, health care moguls and the greediest gang of immoral criminals don't give a rip about the homeless, the mentally ill, the disabled, or the elderly. Like Scrooge, spiritually bankrupt people say, "So let them die and decrease the surplus population." Hell no, I will not stand by and watch the most vulnerable die, or suffer as they do now. It's not just the folks who were emptied from institutions. those folks were "supposed" to be absorbed in to the community. They were not. They survive in a world of horror on the streets every day every year. They truly are the experts at survival. Now, shelters are past capacity because many of the folks that once could not imagine ruin happening to them are experiencing it. It could easily happen to any of you. Maybe at that point, you will finally "Get it." Fight the hell back!
The beautiful thing about the #OWS is how it illustrates the fact that our government, from local to federal, doesn't know how to actually deal with problems. Problems like homelessness, poverty, hunger, violence, and inequality... these governments just want to "EVICT" the problems as if the #OWS created the problems. These problems are endemic to our society and #OWS is just forcing us to look at them. To the local Mayors I say "Good luck with 'evicting' our nation's problems.
i agree, but every single person needs to take responsibility....the government, financial corps, as well as the American people. the American people are not so innocent in all that is going on
Occupy the Federal Reserve!!! They are responsible for giving our money to wall st.
Hi my brothers. I am Cristian from Argentina (South America). Come on come on!!! Don.t surrender! All my force, supporting and prayers for you. God Bless you. Occupy!!! Occupy!!! Occupy!!!
ows I commend the movement of protest against the greedy robber barons at the Goldman club and others, the banks, the polluting Earth careless corporate thugs.
But PLEASE #ows - stay on message, stay peaceful, and stay democratic. Know that WE are in a LONG TERM fight! Change will come through the eloquent and intelligent presentation of ideas, combined with massive demonstrations, and yes, ELECTIONS. Que Vaya el movimiento con Suerte!
To Michael Bloomberg: WE WILL BE BACK, you little election-stealing bitch....
Breaking news: Bloomberg overturned by court:http://www.cnbc.com/id/45303217
I am willing to listen to your message. I am willing to hear your side of the story. But what is your mission? What is your goal? What are you trying to accomplish. The world is watching but everyone I talk to says they do not know what your mission is. In laymans terms, what are you doing?
Our country is under attack by 1%.Open your eyes.We want our country back.
Occupy Wall St. has no leverage to force change and until OWS gets some leverage nothing will change.
If OWS blocks traffic and shuts down business as usual, OWS will have leverage to force change.
The forgotten must block traffic to remind the forgetful of the needs of the forgotten.
Guidelines For Non-Violent Civil Disobedient Traffic Blocking. http://occupywallst.org/forum/guidelines-for-non-violent-civil-disobedient-traff/
I am willing to listen to your message. I am willing to hear your side of the story. But what is your mission? What is your goal? What are you trying to accomplish. The world is watching but everyone I talk to says they do not know what your mission is. In laymans terms, what are you doing?
To put it bluntly, everyone knows that we can have a better society, and they want it today.
For example, in the 1970, it was normal to have one parent work outside the home, afford a house, have health insurance, send the kids to school and college, and still have enough for around 11% savings. See Elizabeth Warren's "The Coming Collapse of the Middle Class".
Meanwhile, worker productivity has gone up over 175%, we have computerization, automation, all the free-trade agreements we were told would increase everyone's livlihoods, etc. Spending on food and clothing has gone down, yet people don't have any money because fixed costs have gone up: both parents work, which bumps people into a higher tax bracket, thus families pay more in taxes, housing costs have gone up nearly 100%, school is vastly more expensive, and family incomes have only flat-lined because of the second worker, otherwise they would have gone down.
Essentially, despite the enormous increase in productivity, people are poorer today than they are in 1970. There are a thousand explanations for why this is, and there are a thousand solutions. People are upset that none of these solutions are even up for public debate.
People want in on the political process that dictates how our shared resources are used. They are tired of being ruled by an unrepresentative class, and there are no forums for public discussion in this country. Hence, they physically go out on the street to get the conversation started.
This is ground work, they are attacking the root of the problem, the fact that we do not live in a democratic or republic society. We have no voice, and our representatives do not represent.
You have put your finger on it when you mentioned 'productivity'. What they do is, they hook you up to machines and computers to increase your productivity but they do not increase your wage. Thus, the increased surplus value ie Profit, which your increased Productive Labour is generating, goes into the Bank of the Corporate Capitalist. The increase in Efficiency should improve our lives because, in theory, it should enable us to Work Fewer Hours. Instead of that, they extend your Working Hours, rather than shorten them. You end up working more Productively, for Longer Hours and for the Same (if you are lucky) or maybe even Less Real Wages. THAT is where the magic Profits came from which produced the Huge Bank Surpluses. These Surpluses were then used to Speculate Massively in the Markets and the rest is History. When they Squandered Your Surplus Labour on Risky Investments, they then came back to you - as Tax Payer - to Bail them Out. They stole Your Money, generated from Your Labour, Squandered it and then Went Back to You to Replenish the Funds. That does not require a Public Debate. It requires a Public Outcry, which is what we are getting.
Please don't give up occupiers. We are all counting on you and supporting you, in spirit if not in person. To the "everyone supporting this movement is a college dropout looking for a way out of their loans" types: I graduated from an expensive college, still owe $60k--make $20k doing physics and fully intend to pay it all back (and then donate to the college I graduated from so that future graduates might not have to acquire quite as much debt). I'll even pay it back if candidates like Perry can buy their way into the White House and (remember to) shut down the Department of Energy.
We need campaign finance reform and a sane political climate based on reason (hurray for humanity) in place of the catchy but wildly illogical talking points dominating the "conversation."
Quick note though--I'm not sure about occupying the subway--it seems like a call to a general strike might garner more support than imposing a de facto strike on the whole city. Give the people a chance to be supportive before you get their bosses mad at them for being late.
many Americans have student loans, and most of them pay them without protesting! You wanted to go to school, why am i supposed to care about your loans. Work your ass off and pay them off like the rest of us?
Yeah that's what I said I was going to do and have been doing. I'm supportive of other aspects of the movement as are countless other Americans who went to school and are working their asses off to pay off loans. Read the post (See first paragraph) before indicting me with your kneejerk reaction (see second paragraph).
Oakland mayor Quan's legal adviser Dan Seigel stepped down in solidarity with we the 99% and spoke truth that we all know. Thank you Mr Seigel ! All others employees and elected corrupted officials should step down as it is treasonous to we the people the actions of official's protecting the 1%. Go to Democracynow.org to hear the details and interview with Me Seigel.
It's funny they took you all out of the park saying, it's a health hazard & it's not part of the 1st amendment to occupy & take over a public space. Well then that should apply to people sitting waiting for movie releases & concert tickets too yet they don't apply that to them. Which tells me, this is all based on big money always trumps the people rights once again. Let's face these Wall Streeters, do not want you there. And will devise anyway possible way to get you out. But as a group, you need to devise an alternative that will keep you within the law. While still exercising your own rights. What you need is some LAWYERS on your side, who know the law & it's loop holes. Time to get organized, to keep this going !!!!!
Yeah but to be fair, people don't camp out for 2+ months for concert tickets.
I agree with your ideas though. It is possible to be very clever with the law. Time for more finesse in this regard.
I'm disappointed that ows was unable to plan and carry out its own exit of the park on its own terms. I thought this 2 week march to Washington would have been a great way to exit the park heads held high and with strong forward momentum. Instead we have this and in hindsight some desperately trying to spin the events of last night into a "victory." The fact is ows should have planned its own exit strategy on its own terms and carried it out at its own time of choosing, but it failed to do so. The point of the occupation started to become its own existence with more focus on how to stay warm than how to move on to the next phase with the realization you can't just sit in a park and live forever.
Today I'm very disappointed that ows allowed things to get to this point, and all this railing against the mayor and the police and the corporate elite now feels disingenuous to me because frankly it looks like a setup perpetrated by ows. As if nobody could have seen this coming and dodged this bullet, been smart and clever and found the way forward to win more hearts and minds. I'm just very disappointed, ows could have been prepared and handled this better. .
I am with you guys! All people over 50 unite and support OWS!
Other movements have had their opposition and their ideas were more powerful than evictions and incarceration. Given time light always beats darkness no matter how dark it may be. Martin Luther King, Jr did spend much time in conflict with the power structure. Christians were considered trash and Saint Paul wrote from a Roman jail 2 Tim 2:9 " And because I preach this Good News, I am suffering and have been chained like a criminal. But the word of God cannot be chained." How ironic that the future always looks stupid to those who are chained to the past. You can not fence truth. You can not make the world flat again. An ignorant person can over time be enlightened. There are churches on every corner now and there is a monument to MLK Jr. in Washington. The days of a corrupt cash controlled American "democracy" are numbered. Change is the only constant. Bloomberg, police , corporations and their political puppets simply can not keep the sun of tomorrow's morning from rising. OWS and Global Bottom-up Democracy is the future as certain as top down republics were a future beyond monarchies. All the people having a voice is superior to bought and paid for professional politicians having a voice. Brute force can not make an outdated technology better but it does take time for the average person to learn how it works. 8-Track tape player politics is on the way out. It has had its run.
My husband and I left the United States over a year ago, setting out in our converted Sprinter van to drive around the world. We abandoned the American Dream to pursue our own dream of global citizenship. Today, we are northern Peru, but let it be known, WE STAND IN SOLIDARITY WITH OWS. I wish that I could beam our bodies back to the States right now to protest amongst you. I am so proud of this movement. Please stay strong, stay true. We are with you. -Stevie and Tree from sprinterlife.com
Read Howard Zinn's "A People's History of the United States". Therein you will learn how reform comes about. There is a clear pattern in the history. If they can ignore you, they will. OWS is NOT a threat to them. Right now they feel comfortable and in control, therefore nothing will change. You have my 100% support nevertheless. It's a start. Occupy Washington!!!!
I think it's quite a stretch to say that they feel comfortable and in control. If they felt comfortable, they wouldn't be sending a massive police force to forcefully break it up.
Having grown up in China, though, I recognize what they've done as a rookie mistake, all too commonly made by the Chinese oppressive forces. This will only make us stronger. We are reconvening and restarting the conversation after a brief, over-night rest. They will not stop us, and in trying to do so, they will make us stronger.
El pueblo unído jamás será vencido, the peaceful united will never be defeated.
fire bloomberg. he just said "the restraining order might not even exist" so the closing of the park is bs!! we need to impeach our leaders! stay peaceful people!
Want to occupy, go to Mayor's park, City Hall Park. Always reporters there.
“ Stand tall, Bipedal Ape. The shark may outswim you, the cheetah outrun you, the swift outfly you, the capuchin outclimb you, the elephant outpower you, the redwood outlast you. But you have the biggest gifts of all: the gift of understanding the ruthlessly cruel process that gave us all existence; the gift of revulsion against its implications; the gift of foresight - something utterly foreign to the blundering short-term ways of natural selection - and the gift of internalizing the very cosmos."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satyagraha
Occupy Wellington send love and support, we been up all night watching the Livestream and we will keep Occupying till the world changes
If you really want to be heard, all of these smaller occupies should converge on Washington. Without doing so, this movement will go nowhere. May I suggest a million person march because OWS is too spread out to have any real effect. Especially if OWS is able to shut down Washington, then maybe those in congress will hear what the 99% have to say. Those in congress are the fat cats who own many of these companies who are robbing this nation and they always vote for raises for themselves while all of us are struggling. Therefore, if a march on Washington can unite all of OWS in a single location, maybe then they may change a few laws and start to go after these corporations. Keep going and stay strong.
There was a separate Occupy DC in case you missed it.
However, it was only a part of the occupy, if they really want to be heard, all occupies should assemble in DC
What a liar Bloomberg is. I wish he could get thrown OUT of this country with all his demonic Banksters. No one has a right to live outside the law he says, oh yeah, he just is working for those 1% who live outside the law every damn day. @Osborn and MrDman. Get a disease..
Sorry Bud.....But I don't go to any of your filthy protest.....But I am thinking you stand a good shot at getting a disease like Tuberculosis maybe?
What about this idea: Occupy [Your Town/city] Black Friday. Traditionally the big shopping day in US after Thanksgiving. Have people protest instead of shop. Protest peaceably at every street corner in the US, not just in city parks. Just an idea. Make it easy for ordinary folks to stand up and be counted. There are many shopping places. I am intrested in th http://www.sheetworld.com which provides baby related stuff.
Well - I have been watching CNBC and Wall Street seems to be up and running just fine. Would it not be a good idea to just build up support for the Issues that Really Concern People, such as Foreclosures, Healthcare, Wages, The Banks and so on, rather than make Dramatic Claims to Power that we just do not have at present ? Wall Street is Not Going to 'Shut Down' any time soon. It is Great that they know we are here but to claim, in the current situation, that we can 'Shut Down' Wall Street seems just plain stupid to me... I still Support the Movement though but I wish it would become a little more Realistic and therefore more Effective.
The shame of the OWS movement is they have failed to take the next logical step, which is Occupy the White House.. They have repeatedly said the mivement is not ready. That is a lie. The OWS General Assembly and the DNC have repeatly met in secret to keep the movement from Occupying the White House from fear of offending the current President. Shame!! The President has stated publicly he supports the movement, but behind the scenes is trying to block the movement with continued distraction. The fact is the President has given specific instructions to the Capitol Police that if the White House is Occupied, that they are to stand down, and not steal Tents and Generators. Yet OWS in it's corrupt secret meetings are trying to continue to persuade the ranks they are doing the right thing for now...WRONG.. It is time to demand full support for the "Occupy the White House" Movement. It is time to remind the President that the White House is the peoples house!! He serves at our pleasure. OWH Now!!! Promote the full Occupation of the White House" now!! Don't be fooled by OWS/DNC infiltrators. OWH Now!!! Today!! Take back the peoples house and demand real change...
It is imperative everyone understand that they have a role on the stage of our biological, spiritual and social evolution. The stage is set, the drama is now in play, the villains, kings (corporations) their court (media) and guards (police-military) are as important to the play as the serfs (amerikan shepeople) and tradesman (laborers) and merchants (mom-pop business owners) who want change. We all feel it. We all know it's coming. We all realize we have been "downsized, outsourced, taxed" to no return and now being physically beaten to a point where civil blood-letting and possible death are becoming reality and are the next part of the narrative. We must ask ourselves, were the forefathers of this country, those who stood on the same stage, fought the same villains and conquered to form this nascent home (The United Staes of America) of "free" people who proclaimed freedom and liberty worth dying...were their ideas wrong?...did they get it right? Did the question our dear leader Kennedy asked his fellow American's, " ask not what this country can do for you but what you can do for this country" ....did he make sense?...did he get it right? Do we honor our brave men and women (military) who die for our country in times of imminent peril...do we care when they are killed and limbs are destroyed?...when they die for the corporate minders....does it make us right? It is my humble opinion that we did get it right, average Americans are good and decent people, and we must turn on, burn down and blow up the old system, shut off the phones, computers and TVs, stop drinking and eating corporate, feed the tree of liberty with the blood or tyranny and make haste whilst the sun still shines. Stop looking outside for the change and make it from the inside; tell your owners, leaders and money lenders that time for change is now, hope is action and civility is a fist held high in the air. POWER TO THE PEOPLE Dr Michael James Hall, MD, MSc, DABFP, USAFR Author "The American Gentleman, A Contemporary Guide to Chivalry" Fort Miami Beach
just remember that the Founders fought with industry during the industrial revolution; we will fight with information, during the information revolution. no?
Fight for what is right...with anything you have.... Seek truth, give mercy and the of the Cross....
Why is it that none of you understand that all of the things that you are protesting is because of what THE GOVERNEMENT, most importantly the Obummer Administration, has done? All you are doing is making fools out of yourselves. The majority of people out there "protesting", when asked why they are there, can't even tell you... pretty sad. If you really feel that America is " the MOST unfair socio-economic system on the face of the earth" here's a tip.... LEAVE!!! And take all the tree hugging, communist, hippy, dope smoking morons, that have nothing better or more exciting going on in their pathetic lives who decide to join in your protests every day! You are a disgrace to those of us who truly represent what once was the middle class. How about taking all of that spare time & work on some real solutions to the current economic situation? Or exert your energy into something more productive like working on getting someone better elected into the presidential office & administration who may be able to salvage something out of the crap the current administration has put us into.
Why is it that none of you understand that all of the things that you are protesting is because of what THE GOVERNEMENT, most importantly the Obummer Administration, has done? All you are doing is making fools out of yourselves. The majority of people out there "protesting", when asked why they are there, can't even tell you... pretty sad. If you really feel that America is " the MOST unfair socio-economic system on the face of the earth" here's a tip.... LEAVE!!! And take all the tree hugging, communist, hippy, dope smoking morons, that have nothing better or more exciting going on in their pathetic lives who decide to join in your protests every day! You are a disgrace to those of us who truly represent what once was the middle class. How about taking all of that spare time & work on some real solutions to the current economic situation? Or exert your energy into something more productive like working on getting someone better elected into the presidential office & administration who may be able to salvage something out of the crap the current administration has put us into.
Let's occupy the jails, let us ALL get arrested! Whom do they think they're arresting after all?!
can't be there, but i've sent money. power to the people.
You are just human deflectors i.e. "tools" for the Obama regime --- WAKE-UP! Nobody cares what happens to your "cause" any longer. Once you lose the little bit of media coverage you are getting (all negative in tone and making you look like freaks), the game is over. The machine you are fighting against is bigger than your meek, un-organized bolshevik-esque revolution. I suggest that you all gather your tents, sleeping bags, etc. from the NYC Dept. of Sanitation and head out to a nice quiet piece of land in Wyoming or Montana (I am sure Ted Turner would let you squat on some of his land) and try and live in a tribal commune of insanity and non-sense and leave the REAL 99% alone. It will be just like “Atlas Shrugged”, just in reverse. The great minds stay, the weak minds leave. Ha!
Can you really blame the mayor for dispersing the camp, given how truly FILTHY it had become? I seriously wanted to join, but the stench of Zuccotti Park had become so unbearable that I could not get close enough to do anything but watch.
I mean, I'm all for power to the people, but hygiene is not the enemy; hygiene is not a tool of the oppressors; proper disposal of human excrement should not be reserved for the 1%.
If those living in Zuccotti park had appointed leaders to organize regular cleaning and maintenance of the park and to serve as spokespeople for the cause, Bloomberg would never have been able to get away with the raid.
Those unable or unwilling to organize themselves invite government intervention. Hopefully we will learn this lesson as we move forward...
So you 'seriously wanted to join' did you ? Well , I seriously doubt that ...
Occupy Yourself!
Il n’est pas trops tards, mais il est grand temps…
At this time, this time of yours and mine. At this time this time of stones and bones. At this time this time of wolves and words. At this time, this time you need to heed this tempo, momentum, bound in the rhythm, bound in the beat, bound in the heat of all these people on the street; Calling for justice, Calling dissent, Calling: WE ARE THE 99%.
At this time, this time, this tempo, this beat, this rhythm, this time, this time, this heat, this time, this time, this momentum, bound in the rhythm, bound in the beat, bound in the heat of all these people on the street; Open your eyes. Open your ears. Open your mouth and repeat:
“If not now, when?” “If not here, where?” “If not me, who?”
Tina Pisco West Cork, 2011
We are going to have to adapt as the powers that be change their strategy.We are going to have to let our voices be heard through various means.Whether or not we occupy any particular park or any other territory will become irrevelant.Protesting is our right and getting our message out without being compromised or co-opted will be crucial.Making sure that everyone who can is registered to vote and exercising that right or privelege,irregardless of party affiliation is a good first step.Be wary of the established media and be prudent my fellow 99ers.Our time has come,so let's avoid the traps and pitfalls that are being set for us.our messages are diverse, but that is actually a good thing.Restoring Glass-Steagall,eliminating all loopholes,making the 1% pay their fair share and making the tax code fairer is a good start.Thank GOD our troops are coming home,perhaps a sign of things that our President is finally starting to listen,but we must keep up the pressure.Only then can we get the change that we voted for!
The shame of the OWS movement is they have failed to take the next logical step, which is Occupy the White House.. They have repeatedly said the mivement is not ready. That is a lie. The OWS General Assembly and the DNC have repeatly met in secret to keep the movement from Occupying the White House from fear of offending the current President. Shame!! The President has stated publicly he supports the movement, but behind the scenes is trying to block the movement with continued distraction. The fact is the President has given specific instructions to the Capitol Police that if the White House is Occupied, that they are to stand down, and not steal Tents and Generators. Yet OWS in it's corrupt secret meetings are trying to continue to persuade the ranks they are doing the right thing for now...WRONG.. It is time to demand full support for the "Occupy the White House" Movement. It is time to remind the President that the White House is the peoples house!! He serves at our pleasure. OWH Now!!! Promote the full Occupation of the White House" now!! Don't be fooled by OWS/DNC infiltrators. OWH Now!!! Today!! Take back the peoples house and demand real change...
Now
Liberty Square actually lives in peoples' hearts
It is a place bounded neither by ground nor sky nor skyscrapers
It is a place we will return to over and over
It is a place not accessible to armed police, mayors, nor appropriators
It is, in fact, impossible to roust those who are actually there
Mic Check! Mic Check; HaHa, HaHa; HaHaHa, HaHaHa
A sad day. It is a terrible comment on today's world that those pledged to protect the rights and freedoms of all are trampling on our right to peaceful assembly and freedom of speach. My heart bleeds for America. Is it time to assemble 1 million supporters and reoccupy Wall Street.
you can assemble all you want.... just GO HOME at the end of the night!
Discipline, honor, courage, faithfulness, temperance ... these are the road to freedom. You will not achieve freedom of any kind until you start cultivating these virtues within yourselves.
I agree with you there. Any Movement which wants to change things has got to reflect the change which is sought. However, during the early stages when there was enough 'infrastructure' to properly organise, I think that many of those virtues were demonstrated. That is why the 'authorities' removed that infrastructure. They wanted the Occupiers to look like a rabble and so contrived to make them look that way, by depriving them of anything that would make them look otherwise. The Rich often Live like Dogs but dress up to look like Model Citizens. It is in their interests to make the Poor look bad. The last thing that they want is a 'Self Respecting' Poor. So are you committed to helping ordinary people to acquire these 'soldierly' Virtues? Or are you just snidely suggesting that the Poor can never have them ?
The 1% have nothing I desire or want, although they think they do, they think we are lapping at their feet and yearning for their homes, cars, top of the line clothing, and the businesses/corporations they own. Their 1000.00snd dollar meals they eat, as they sit and brag about the next thing they will buy, or who is getting the next face lift, breast lift, or butt lift, or who screwed who, or which group of the 99% they intend to steal from for their elaborate lifestyle. Boring isn't the word, there needs to be a new word added to the Webster Dictionary that would correctly describe their kind. Move forward OWS, keep centered on the Political and Financial System and less on what Park your going to stay at, this Movement is about the Financial/Political systems and getting this Country back to "For the People and By the People".
I am so sad to see that the corporate pigs and their minions have used the recent three deaths, regardless of their circumstances, to start an organized clampdown and eviction of the national ows movements. An isolated vet commits suicide, an accidental death by carbon monoxide poisoning, and homicide in proximity of one ows location has been lumped together by the media and sold to the public as "breakouts of violence in various ows locations across the country." The media is spinning this news, they are projecting the standoff between the protesters and police as THE news, when nothing could be further from the truth. The news is: curbing the peoples right to protest, assemble peacefully, speak out! I wish I could be in NY with the protesters, I am so proud of those who are devoting so much time and effort for a better America. I hope the protesters know that my sentiment is being felt by hundreds of thousands of Americans across our country; we may not be with you physically, but we are with you in spirit and agreement with the agenda of the 99%. Go OWS protesters!
Our new society now faces what might become it's first war.
Some have said that since the General Assemblies make the decisions and Occupy controls wherever it camps, that the General Assemblies are a form of government and that Occupy is a state. If this is so, this makes armed action (including the weapons of the police) against Occupy by any OTHER state an act of war. If a nation committed to war (such as the United States) invades a nation with no military and a peace constitution, that is still an act of war-and an ugly, one-sided act of aggression at that. We have already taken casualties in multiple cities.
In DC where I am from, we will deploy at 5 PM into evening rush-hour traffic in a solidarity march for OWS, but all of our solidarity marches are of course just the beginning. Best wishes, and let's hope all spaces invaded this week are soon retaken!
I look forward to the day when Bloomberg, that swine Adams from Portland, and the rest of the "War Mayors" stand in the dock to be prosecuted from their crimes, with all of their property forfeit and life without parole on the table.
Stand strong, brothers and sisters in NYC. There are many, many others across the country who believe as you do. This is real, and will only continue to grow, no matter how many ways they try to shut us down. We are everywhere, and WE WILL NOT BE SILENCED!
Go Occupiers!!!! Lock arms and keep marching! I am so glad that people are finaly rising in revolt...peaceful revolt...at least on the side of the occupiers. NYPD...tsk tsk .....I will destroy the NYPD T-Shirt I bought when I was in your city last. I had respect for men and women in blue....turns out you are but machines of oppression, trampling the rights of the citizens you are supposed to be protecting....shame shame coppers.
I like Timelords comment. Have we (United States) ever collected for building Germany and Japan from WWII? Who is managing the US monies? And hey China...We want our industry back, and our people back to work for a decent wage!!!! Piss on the CEO's and Reagan who allowed all this to happen.
i propose this hashtag for people to start following:
impeachbloomberg
he's made it clear he does not want his job anymore and is not interested in being a voice for the people. If there is a way to get this movement started, I say we put it into action. I will help out in any way I can. Solidarity until I can be there in person again.
My heart is with all of you.
From what I understand it's very hard to occupy pieces of territory for long periods of time. Maybe we should be trying for Guerrilla actions instead? What about actual occupations of major corporate institutions? Just some thoughts...
Now it's time to make this movement more than a physical occupation. There are thousands of people who want to be part if this movement, who agree that the time has come to take back our country from the corporations who have bought the system out from under us. So, now's the time to figure out a way to make this movement work outside of the tent camps. Make it more inclusive for those who can't camp, but want to help bring about change. How can we do this? any ideas?
I just got a report that they are marching downtown towards Zucotti Park, followed by a lot of police, prisoner transport vans, ambulance vehicles, police cars.
sorry...it was bound to happen that OWS would be evicted. Bloomberg allowed it to exist for two months which allowed the movement to spread and grow globally. Other mayors, such as ex-mayor Gulliani would have shut it down after a day and the movement would have died. So, give the mayor some credit...he is a strong advocate of freedom of speech....fact of the matter is that OWS illegally occupied private property and to have expected the mayor and city to allow it to exist indefinitely was somewhat naive and misguided. Organize, evolve, go legit, get infrastructure, organize, continue....try playing by the rules...
'playing by the rules' is not going to get anyone anywhere because the 'rules' are made to secure the position of the '1%'.
However, you do have a point about 'Infrastructure'. I think that the Movement needs some 'secure' Bases from which to operate from which they could put out the overall message in a calm manner, free from immediate harassment. Trying to turn the Occupied Park into an HQ was probably a tactical mistake. I still believe in occupying Public Spaces but there is no reason why this could not be organised via a network of Donated Spaces or Buildings. This should be looked at, in my opinion. People could 'Donate', on a temporary basis, part of their Homes, Businesses or Land for the use of the Movement. Maybe for an 'Office' in one case or a 'Library' , 'Computer Centre' or whatever. Also, there might be sympathetic Public or Private Institutions, willing to help. This should all be looked at. I believe that the UK Occupiers and GA Are thinking of moving along these lines and they have also 'Occupied' an Empty Commercial Building, I think it was a Bank. This is another possible line of development. You can Occupy Buildings as well as Parks and Open Spaces. They are easier to defend and harder to attack.... just a thought
I didn't even hear that this happened until I went on the BBC website! None of the news sites had it up.
Officials are going to use any ridiculous loophole they can to keep throwing people out from place to place. All they do is cite "safety" as a means of keeping people from demonstrating. Red-taping everything.
You know what I suggest? Now that Zuccotti Park is "free for other people to enjoy again," why not someone set up a tasteful, artistic display of self expression? With RED TAPE.
OWS is marching to City Hall right now if you want to join. It's Tuesday 1pm.
I am on of the 99% and I'm seriously confused about what it is you are doing and where you intend to take this sit in Occupancy? What are your goals in terms of turning the 1% ~ What are your demands from any corproate big wig or wall street or the government? What is the end of the result in accomplishment? i.e., reducing taxes, raising awarenes, breaking our economy more than it is already broken. I pass Zuccotti park every day, and when the sit in first began it seemed at the time to be a wonderful idea, but lately it looks like a mess with no real point. I saw a man standing in the park with a sign that said it was the end of the world, another man held a sign that aliens were coming from mars to rescue us. I'm not sure I agree with that. Also, for the shut down of the subways on Thursday are you not thinking of the 99% who have to work because of family obligations or those 99% that have to get to important health related appointments... I'm not against you I just want to get a better Idea of what you are trying to liberate and if you have a future projection of what you would like to accomplish.
"You move forward in the grand tradidition of the transformative social movements that have defined American History..." stated above What does that mean....? It's sounds like a politician talking and I'm not really sure what your trying to say... What are your plans on creating a better society.... I'd really like to know... I'm the wife of a union worker, not a corporate monger ~ I work hard and enjoy the liberties of this country. I have the feeling that what your doing has no true point. I've been reading this site since it came online and everyday the words and voice of the writer become more vague and sound like someone trying to run for office who really has no idea about the working class which are the 99%. I wish you luck if you actually have a handle on what you are trying to accomplish. I feel you need more of a end goal. Sit ins were conducted to give the woman the vote, to stop prejudice, etc. What are your goals. I would love a straight up answer instead of a monologue of a political speech.
Ruby
Great article! I have an idea. lets protest obammer too, cuz isnt he the cause of most of this mess? With his failed policies and all.
The over-privileged and the over-powerful will break any law to hold on to their position.
I guess Bloomberg has chosen to stand by his 1% buddies. Come next election, Let's EVICT Micheal Bloomberg from City Hall!
He can't run again. Christine Quinn and Bloomberg changed the rules that New Yorkers put in place. He can't run again, but Quinn is. Let's keep her out of City Hall.
The whole thing needs to focus less on the logistics of tents, and more on fixing broken political and financial systems. Any one attempted physical Occupation is always going to become a focus for local authority. A strength of the movement is its distributedness, so keep the enforcement authorities off-balance by striking somewhere else next time: around town, around the country and around the world.
Further, since a majority of the support for Occupy! comes from the broad swath of the population (it had better - else the Movement is going nowhere), co-option through the Internet ought to be an important method, and just keeping the message out there in any media who will report.
Occupy Congress
the idea of one leader is a bad one. i think you should make a commitee that has 10 leaders so they cant play devide and conquer and take out the leader but only to creat a havoc on the idea that it is becoming an orginization ive never been one for protests or anything anti government but im getting more and more convinced by the things i see
Um, government by committee is never a good idea. Think they're going to solve the economic crisis in their current Super Committee? It's not going to happen. They'll deadlock just like the larger government is deadlocking. We need a Congress and Senate made up of people who actually care about the issues of the day and how they affect all Americans. Instead we have a Congress and a Senate made up of people who only care about their large corporate donors and defeating their enemies at the next election cycle. When our government works it works. It's not working right now. It's broken.
The big problem is single winner districts. That keeps out a lot of common folks, who actually have good ideas. Plus when one person is elected per district i.e. one president, one senator, one congressman, one chairman etc., etc, there is no chance for gender balance (one male and one female). Plus in plurality voting (using a check, punch the hole, click the dot, raise the hand, nod the head, yes/no, anything other than consecutively ranked numbers beginning with the number one) the candidates have to portray themselves as the only good one. But when multiple sets are elected, the best candidates are the ones who portray themselves as team players.
Works real good when we have a hundred people working together, because even if only one or two are doing anything, at least it's better than counting on just one person to do everything. With 100, you have a better chance of coming up with ideas. And by ranking multiple ideas, you can have literally hundreds of alternatives simultaneously voted on. And when everyone that votes uses the correct method of ranked choices, then any choice that received 50% plus one tic of the total number of voting members, is considered approved in consecutive order.
So when two very similar ideas both get five tics, you simply add the sum of the combined tics, and the lowest sum breaks the tie. That way ties are more easily broken too, and ties can be broken with similar good ideas.
Check out the USA Parliament's system, it's worked perfectly well for 16 years, to register voters, elect leaders and build the team bigger and bigger over the years. Every individual can participate in different ways, and they do. Nobody is that same, but yet they are 100 equal units.
Plus, egotists, power grabbers, control freaks, greed heads and the like don't like it, so we end up attracting only the cool team players. But we still allow jerks too, we just don't get that many in this system.
http://www.usparliament.org
Leaders, they don't just magically appear, they have special character and talent, that's why they are leaders, movements grow around their leaders see, not the other way round......
Bob Marley is a good example, Martin Luther king, Lincoln....
A leader is simply the name with the most votes, and the elected leader is expected to fulfill certain responsibilities. For example, in the USA Parliament's system, the leader is expected to distribute the ballots and voter registration forms. When you do that, you tend to get more votes to hold the position of responsibility, because people remember who helped them register to vote, etc.
Leaders are team players. Not like in golf, but team sports. For example, Terryl Owens was not a leader, but the one who puts the team above the individual is the leader. Tom Brady, the Boston Celtics...the ones who "pass the ball around", instead of taking all the shots for themselves or who yell at people and act mean or like dorks.
John Cleese is a good leader. Lani Guinier...it's hard to find team players in US politics. People who are for mathematical integration. Just look at the voting members of the USA Parliament to find the best leaders. Gail Lightfoot [Libertarian], Tina Cook [Independent], Daniel Penisten [Citizen], Jim Burns [Libertarian]...
YOUR name, when you start using ranked choice voting which is like an open-ended appointment system that continually expands the numbers, the bigger the better, no road blocks, as we work to get past the "concrete bunkers" of Normandy Beach on D-Day in a coordinated manner.
http://www.usparliament.org
It's a tricky subject because both sides are corrupt, creating the illusion of choice, we haven't had the choice to vote for a real prez since jfk.......and because of that no one votes anymore....well...alot less people anyway......leaving the small percentage who still vote in charge of the desicion for everyone else.....this is not accidental.......the system might still work if we still used it.....
What about five leaders? It seems to work pretty good. But the team is 100. We're a lot like 100 basketball coaches, who rotate the five executives (the three prime ministers and two secretaries) in and out like five basketball players by voting (votes of confidence). That way when one gets tired, a new Prime Minister or Secretary is voted in, and when one has the "hot hands", they stay in...
But we need more coaches, who have time to vote on the five executives.
http://www.usparliament.org
It's about time these squatters were evicted.
Although they have every right to protest there, they had no right to move in. The police told them to take their belongings and leave. Those that choose to stay were forcibly removed and their personal belongings picked up and can be reclaimed.
This story is beyond belief. How VCs stole hundreds of millions from state pensions http://bit.ly/OccupyVCs
Please spread this information. Folks have a right to know.
Thank you. Venture capitalist companies should be reformed, and we need to coordinate more to help change corporate bylaws. I hope you'll consider working in coordination with the All Party System. Our rules for electing Directors and decisions are far more advanced that the current system that you know.
The foundation is in the vote counting which is based on algebra (pure proportional representatiuon, or PR) instead of the more primitive addition-based system, first-part-the-post (FPTP).
Be sure to contact us if/when you want to coordinate under the parliamentary system, where the competition of ideas is greatly nurtured and encouraged.
http://www.usparliament.org
Now more than ever it is critial that those who can afford to get involved do so. First they shut down Z park and then they are just going to keep shutting down the protest all over the nation. Stand up. Don't let them take this from us.
Sorry to see what happened in New York yesterday. Why doesn't a 1000 (or 10,000) OWS supporters drive into Manhattan 1 day and drive around. Every 30 minutes, they all stop where ever they are for 5 minutes blocking traffic.
Snarl up traffic and make Bloomberg's life hell!!!
Now what?
"Last night, billionaire Michael Bloomberg sent a massive police force to..."
evict other billionaires, like the omnipresent Russell Simmons, from the hottest new sight to be seen, Club Zucotti.
Think outside the box about what American occupation looks like. America has always been a culture on the move, melting boundaries, not creating them. Think of a pot of water being brought to a boil. Early on, a few bubbles emerge and pop, and slowly more and more bubbles emerge and pop. A pot is at full boil when the whole surface is alive with emerging and popping bubbles. Occupy WallStreet could become Occupy Everystreet...pop up all over the place. Stay long enough to attract attention and articulate the interests of the local population, then melt away, to pop up elsewhere. If the movement really want to be about the 99%, it is time to find a way into the neighborhoods of the 99% to heat them up into the full boil that will be needed to create real change. What happened at Zucotti was a magic more of the 99% need to experience. Occupy America!
No need for bodies to be present on site to be counted. Tie a ribbon on location. One per person. Maybe a green ribbon. Might need to get a permit.
I have to say we are painting with a broad brush today.Remember,if we are the 99% that means that only 1%,of our country,consists of these "Bad Actors". Shouldn't we be able to deal with that? You know why we can't? Because,we all are guilty of indescretions.Did you get that job over your black counterpart?Did you cheat in College,to get that empty degree?You scamming welfare? Faking injuries for comp?Foodstamps anyone? These are necessary programs that are routinely abused,by us,the 99%. There are good & bad corporate citizens.There are good & bad 99%ers.Congress & senate.I don't see the good there.You see examples of pacifying us,while grabbing under the table,sio that negates any "good deeds" done by our Government.We need ethics.we need families with someone at home.We need a conscience.ALL OF US. We allowed this to happen to us.We want to change it.It's not US & THEM.It really isn't.It's a return to ethics & morality & justice for all.And I don't mean that from a religious perspective(agnostic here) Lets take our lumps too.We must force the issue on the bad actors(1%)until they "GET IT".Education,Equality,Compassion.Bring these back. "(S)He;s not Heavy,(S)He's my Brother/Sister"
to Do: Vote the them all out. Finance all elections with public money Ban lobbyists Get rid of the Federal Reserve Break up the big banks Initiate one person one vote Reinstitute taxes of 95% on the 1% Tax all trading on the exchanges Ban Credit Default Swaps and all other dervitative Jail the bankers who created this mess Fine the major news media for lying each time to the public
I agree with everything you said except to tax the 1% by 95%. It's too much and comes across as ridiculous. The rest of what you said all seems perfectly reasonable and necessary. How about taxing them 35% with no loopholes? Do you know how much extra revenue that would be for the US Govt?
I agree with you... he had very valid points but the 95 %... 35% seems in line... and how about tax breaks for businesses that donate to public funds? If we take their $ out of politics what great use it could be... with so many in need it is shameful at the waste on campaign spending that is done.
I sincerely mean it when I say stay strong through out the winter..dontwait and to regroup in the spring... NY citizens will help the protesters move forward.
Take care, surely the Police will try to put infiltraded and provocateur people to try to descredit the 99%.
Thank you OWS you are awesome and then some >>"We are appalled, but not deterred. Liberty Square was dispersed, but its spirit not defeated. Today we are stronger than we were yesterday. Tomorrow we will be stronger still. We are breaking free of the fear that constricts and confines us. We occupy to liberate." <<
" we are all one 99% ", keep on going.Good luck.Our solidarity from Spain
I like the sleep and shower in the donated warehouse idea.
Since there is no camping in the park we don't need to camp there. You can walk and sit there all night but sleep elsewhere. As long as we are not disturbing the peace they cannot chase us.
Wall Street's suicidal capitalism built on rampant speculation eventually posed an untenable risk to the US economy—a risk that culminated in the trillions of dollars’ worth of the US government bailouts and guarantees that the US government scrambled starting in late 2008. But in 2008 the US government was compelled to replace private risktakers at the Wall Street with government capital so that money and credit flows wouldn’t stop, precipitating a depression. As a result, these Wall Street became impervious to the vital market discipline that the threat of loss provides. Wall Street lenders of the financial markets continue to understand that the US government would protect them in the future if necessary. This implicit guarantee by the US government harms capitalism and economic growth. The top 6 US banks had assets of less than one fifth of US GDP in 1995. Now they have two third of US GDP. The financial crisis was created by the biggest US banks to consolidate power. The big banks became stronger as a result of the bailout by the US Treasury. The big banks are turning that increased economic clout into more political power. Wall Street has undue influence on the US government policies and this situation reflects a failure of democratic representation for the other 99 percent Americans.
First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.
Be the change you want to see in the world
Nobody can hurt me without my permission.
Mahatma Gandhi
Solidarity from Denver, keep strong OWS! We are with you in spirit even as we reoccupy our own Civic Center Park.
Good afternoon. It is important to take into account the following data.
THE MESSAGE OF OCCUPPY WALLSTREET The message of the 99% for the 99%
The message is a message for real democracy. The message is a message, against corporative extensive political priviledges. The message is a message, against war for profits. The message is a message against the invasion of countries, and the killing of people, for supporting a system in crisis. The message is a message for stoping violence against a civic non violent social uprising. The message is a message for stoping the United States, to be the country with the higuest incarceration rate in the world. The message is a message for stoping the mainstream media cult on war and fear. The message is a message for making the United States, an environmentally friendly country. The message is a message for asking for the government of the United States, coherence, and a firm step back on hypocrisy when talking about human rights violations abroad. The message is a message for censoring political candidates that endorse human rights violations. The message is a message, for changing the culture of violence of the United States for a culture for respect and respect of International Law. The message is a message for increasing the political ideologic horizons of the main political parties of the country. The message is a message against lobbysm, as in other european countries. The message is a message against for creating a just taxaxion system. The message is a message for stoping the exploitation of migrants. The message is a message for changing the US mainstream media POP vulgar culture, for a culture for science, tolerance and peace. The message is a message against the influence of the US military in the US foreign agenda. The message is a message stoping the rise on inequality in the United States and in the World. The message is a message for stoping the United States to be the country with one of the lowest levels of social mobility in the "developed" world. The message is a message against the policy of Bailing Out Greed, while the 99% of the population have to work under extremely harsh conditions to make a decent living.
D.S.R.
NYC is not a Bloomberg corporation! Reclaim NYPD. Police is not a private security for the 1%!
Move in quietly and mix with the crowd. Then start protesting when we are completely mixed in with crowds.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/flash-protesting-an-idea-to-consider/
beautiful.
Well, here is the the actual restraining order:
https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/266582-order-re-liberty-park/
It is amazing! The last sentence of the order (at the bottom of page 2) actually forbids the city from taking any action whatsoever before the matter is heard at 11:30 this morning. How can Bloomberg keep the park closed on the pretense that the city wants to make an appearance at the hearing when he is explicitly forbidden to take any action, meaning keeping the park closed, before the hearing? Who's "outside the law" now? WHAT AN UNBELIEVABLE CIRCUS!
Let's face it, these actions by the little nypd and mayor goldberger are an old man/woman's game. Old women with their old man ways. They are now in a young person's world. If they will not allow us to occupy their wretched old woman public spaces, we will not allow them to occupy the corridors of the world wide web. Be on alert oldies, the young are here and are going to evict you. To your graves, be gone!
Not all 'Old' people are like this. People in Power do tend to be 'Old' but most 'Old' people have no more Power than you have. Also, the world that you associate with being 'Young' was created quite a long way back. I can remember when virtually everyone who owned a Computer knew how to Program it. Now only a minority do and even then not very well. The 'Young' are quick to Use Technology but they often fail to realise how much control they are handing to the Big 'Old' Corporations when they do so. Hardly any 'Young' people use genuinely 'Free' , as in Freedom Software. They all just go for 'Apple' , MS or Blackberry. People of my generation are more careful. We don't like having our machines sending reports back to the 'mother ship' every few seconds. We make sure that WE are in Control of the machine and not some Corporate Blood Sucker. Also your heavy use of Facebook. Do you realise that even if you Delete a Post on Facebook BEFORE Posting it , they still keep a 'copy' of your original draft ? Now Why do you think they do that ? It is because the whole thing is being Monitored by the CIA and NSA, thats why. Now I use Facebook , before you start calling me an 'old fart' again but I always assume that Everything I do on there is being monitored. If I decided that I did not want to be monitored, I would Know how to go about that. You may already be 'on the ball ' with all these things but most of your generation are totally naive when it comes to handing over data to 'Clouds' and generally being an open book. You put great faith in the Internet as being the vehicle of your 'Freedom' but that Infrastructure was developed by MY Generation, not yours. If the day comes when the authorities decide that Nobody can be 'anonymous' on the Internet, Google have already said that they want everyone 'named', will your generation know how to handle that ? Some of you will, maybe you do but most of you do not have the first clue...
I am 53 years old and could whip the ass off most 'youngsters' when it comes to the 'World Wide Web'. In fact, most of them are leaving themselves wide open to being tracked down because they make the mistake of thinking that the authorities are stupid. Never underestimate your adversary. Unless you are a very experienced Hacker, you are liable to be taken out very quickly (electronically speaking) if / when the shit finally hits the fan. In fact, you should contact the 'old farts' of the FSF and other such organisations and learn from them.
Hey zsazsa, I'm a 51 one year old woman, PROUD to support OWS. Don't start playing the divide and conquer and eugenics game the monsters you seek to destroy use. I'm not a wretched old woman. I have worked my entire life for the betterment of the most vulnerable. I am part of the 99%. You can't shut me out. I am relevant.
Well said ! 'We are the old, decrepit but experienced 99% and we don't want to be left out, we get treated just as badly as the rest of the 99% so have a care - please ! It was the 1% who 'failed the younger ones miserably' not us. We worked our asses off only to be told that our money has gone to Bail out the Banks. At least the young had not had time to pile money into Pension Funds that will Never Pay Out. So have a Care and Think before you Speak - Please !
Why can't we admit that our generation has failed the younger ones miserably? I'm ashamed that we have and don't think lashing out at the youth is really going to solve anything. Sounds like zsazsa is frustrated with us "old farts" and the mess they've created for her and her generation. I know that raging against the my parents was a healthy outlet for myself as a youth. We have failed the younger generation in our collective greed and debt. It's time to face that horror.
I'm not disputing that Pungent, I actually agree. However, there are those of us that fought the good fight, doing work that barely sustains us, but money was not the motivator. Not all of us sold out. It seems to me like too many of us jumped on board once we smelled money. Not all of us sold out.Just a comment, most seriously NOT directed at you Pungent. As I said, I agree. All I'm saying is many of us from all ages have a stake in this too. Not only for me, but for my daughter, son and grandchildren.
I personally think it's time for phase 2 of this movement so to speak. People from all across the USA should march on, and occupy Washington DC.
All of the general demands should be channelled into ONE SINGLE demand; that all members of congress should step down immediately to make way for the people to elect a congress that represents their interests instead of the corruption and crony-ism of the current corporate focused system.
That's my advice. Long live the 99%.
Bloomberg declares war on New Yorkers for not allowing him treat the city as his private corporation. We must reclaim NYPD. Police is not a private security for the 1%!
They came like thieves in the night...Bloomberg's Blue Shirts...and robbed us of our rights, and our possessions. All the while preventing reporters from reporting on the scene. Bloomberg, the self-proclaimed number one defender of free speech (pause for gagging), said in no uncertain terms: "yes, you have the right...the right to remain silent. So just shut up and obey". This is only the beginning dear Mayor .0001%. This WILL be your legacy- of repression. But you will NOT succeed. These mayors, governors, city councils, police chiefs, and street cops of America need to realize that it is NOT UP TO THEM whether or not Americans peaceably gather, protest, discuss, or demonstrate. It's up to a document called the US CONSTITUTION. You can beat us and arrest us and tear-gas us, you can try to "permit" us to death....but you can't kill an idea. You can't keep down a people’s hopes and dreams for a better life....for us, and for our kids. America USED to work. The people had work. The system worke (sort of). Hey, EVEN the Congress used to work (sometimes). God knows, it was far, far, far from perfect -but at least we all had some share in the struggles AND the rewards. But somewhere along the way, we lost our way. Because now we have an economy and a political system that seems to work only for the rich. With OWS America has found it’s voice, and that voice demands fairness and justice - for ALL. This land IS our land! AND WE WANT IT BACK! We want our LIVES back! We want our FUTURE back! But it’s much more than just words.... it’s much more than politics..... it’s your freakin’ LIFE, and how you want to live it, and how you WILL live it. Find a quiet place somewhere, and consider this: Each of us has only one brief life....one chance....one roll of the dice....and many choices. The time has come to choose....to risk...and to act. If not now...then when? If not you, then....who? You DO have the power my friend....and the choice IS yours. Don’t let your dreams die...
stanchas, I agree. It is vital that we all keep connecting, keep talking keep in touch, in some way. We are the people, the giant that the elite forgot, the underestimated. My heart is aflame knowing there are real human beings with souls fighting, never retreating. It won't ever die within me. My promise to the world and my country!
We need systemic change. Voting is now picking between two corporate puppets. I'm throwing off the shackles of the divide and conquer puppet masters.
Come on, New Yorkers! Of all people, are we going to take this crap? I don't think so. Show your support everyday in every way! United we stand!
Ha... Boomberg wants to take all the credit in removing everyone making it seem that he as it all under control. Sneaking up on us in the middle of the night as oppose to coming to wall street and answering to us, shows the lack of control he has and irresponsible abuse of power as mayer. Will Bloomberg push the majority? It won't be the first time in history where protesters are pushed to extremes. What we do is for us and our future. STAY STRONG O.W.S!
with their camps cleared, do #OWS protesters have the resolve to rally for a second act? http://littlebiggy.org/4660547
Learn From Argentina, If you Really want Change, you will have to Fight For It http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YaK9txODEeY
The assault on Zuccotti was to be expected and it will help identify the next steps for OWS. I suggest we gear up to do the following in the coming election year: (1) launch the mother of all voter sign-ups (Acorn will rise again); (2) repeal the anti-voting laws that have been slapped togeher (for example, requiring people to have a state-issued ID); (3) make sure every voter knows where each candidate's money comes from and what positions they took on, say, three important laws affecting civil rights, and (4) launch a national campaign of people who declare their intent to only vote for candidates who support our rights and who have not been bought by Wall Street. This will make the rats scurry for cover.
I'm with you,but stop whining about your (tent)property.You probably trashed a park,in this movement. Medias coverage dwindles & eventually the net will shut down this site. Think it can't happen in the good old USA? Listen!It will get violent,but focus.Only one group is responsible for our plight(along with ourselves).That group consists of your congressmen & senators & the president(past,current ,or future). Corporate america is greedy,but our politicians are the ones that have sold us out.They want us to take third world values & adopt them to our lives(living ,getting by on & earning less)so that the elite may stay comfortable. You must Occupy THE WHITEHOUSE & every state capital. We must bank our consumer dollars(in credit unions) and stop buying.Period! We are ripped off by business & Politics at every turn. It will turn violent.It must!(unfortunately)if you want this to be little more than a bump,in the history books. INSIST THAT EARMAKS & PORK NEVER EVER ARE ALLOWED AGAIN.Insist that all politcians records are open to the public.STop letting politicians take a mid level income & turn it into millions,by the time they leave office. These motherfuckers are bought!!!!! Lets change that. SIncerely,AL Leavitt
We need to have 1 Idea that is circulated or the movement is destined to fail please boycott Wal mart and or HD on black friday if the masses do this you will ruin their financials for the year and that is what will make the largest ststement
Hi my brothers. I am Cristian from Argentina (South America). Come on come on!!! Don.t surrender! All my force, supporting and prayers for you. God Bless you. Occupy!!! Occupy!!! Occupy!!!
http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/bloomberg-on-decision-to-clean-zuccotti-park-full-statement/2011/11/15/gIQAE6bWON_video.html
Some good reasoning from the president of the Street Artist group, Robert Lederman:
e: Tents in parks (see photo evidence at links)
Mayor Bloomberg claims that tents are not allowed in NYC parks. Ask him to explain the giant tents being set up right now in Union Sq Park and in Central Park at Columbus Circle for the corporate run Holiday vending Markets. These tents are set up for more than a month straight, 24 hours a day. They completely displace pedestrians, residents and park visitors for a fee of millions of dollars.
Mayor Bloomberg says generators are not allowed in NYC parks, yet the Holiday Markets operate huge generators as do most of the Greenmarket vending stands in Union Sq Park. There is even a weekly Greenmarket set up right outside the Mayor’s office with huge tents and generators.
Mayor Bloomberg says protestors cannot sleep in parks, yet he allows more than 100 homeless people to sleep in Union Sq Park every night. Instead of pretending that the Mayor is a defender of free speech, perhaps the media can ask him to explain these totally inconsistent policies.
Columbus Circle Holiday Market http://www.scribd.com/doc/60267105/Columbus-Circle-Holiday-Market-2010
Union Sq Park Holiday Market http://www.scribd.com/doc/42641529/Holiday-Market-2010-USP
Homeless sleep in Union Sq Park http://www.examiner.com/destinations-in-new-york/parks-department-plan-will-bring-chaos-to-union-square-say-street-artists
Mayor Bloomberg is an enemy of free speech, of artists’ rights and of public space. Robert Lederman, President of ARTIST artistpres@gmail.com
Exactly, where is the equal protection? Does OWS have to call itself "holiday market" to set up a tent?
Guess any name that has "market" in it flies. Make a note!
Powerfully penned! An obvious show of force and lack of concern for the common person to confuse the planned 'Action' on Thursday. Impressive and swift legal counteraction (way to go!... change from within, in peace) to the attack. Proud of you all and thankful. Get MAD but, STAY FOCUSED and stay strong!
Billionaire Michael Bloomberg Sleep Now in the FIRE. #OWS #ANON #AntiSec http://vimeo.com/30251933
According to Bloomberg, who has done a crash course in interpretation of the constitution, there is a right to protest, yes, but as long as it does not interfere with public life and order (and specially Wall Street's order), so people can protest as much as they want in desserts and high seas. And nowhere else.
I woke up with this in my head, before I even found out about what happened at Zuccotti. KEEP GOING PEOPLE! WE GOT TO KEEP ON MOVING!!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yu7i0fnmW64
Billionaire Michael Bloomberg Sleep Now in the FIRE. #OWS #ANON #AntiSec http://vimeo.com/30251933
What a sneaky, underhanded way to "clean" the park Mr Bloomberg! Did you think the world would not notice because your riot trolls moved in at 1AM in full combat mode?
Give me a break people - you were told to move out so the city could clean up your slums. You've got disease, lice, and more running through your collective and you are making a disgrace of our country acting the way you are acting. You do realize that the conditions that you are living in (that is until midnight last night) is what you want our country to live like. You were not beaten unless you gave a reason to be beaten. If you stood up and let the city do its job, you would not be arrested, you would have not had your personal belognings destroyed, you would not have been pepper sprayed. Its YOUR FAULT, stop blaming others for your own actions. The time to take responsibility is now. If you can't do that... then you truely deserve any beating, pepper spraying, even being shot by police. You are NOT the 99%, you are a fraction of a fraction of a percentage - and it is proven by the very fast decline you are seeing in the support of real americans. You have a right to assemble, you do no thave a right to disrupt the lives of the rest of our country. Bloomberg is a blessing!
Does being this ignorant and hateful come naturally, or did you have to practice to achieve it?
You blew it. Occupy Wall Street was a huge blunder. The Occupy Movement should have been in D.C. day 1. Wall Street can only do what those in Washington allow them to. Washington D.C. should have been occupied, not Wall Street
D.C is too far away for them. Its not convenient to address the real problem!
You're aware of Occupy DC, right? Then someone drove a car into their protests.
Read a book and grow up.
You can't lay claim to land you don't own. I support OWS however if you showed up and took over the farm I live on, I'd be annoyed. You have people's attention, use it. You should not need to Occupy to bring about change. Now tell me what you want to change, how you plan to change it, and what I can do to help. If you can't do that, you no longer have me. This is the way the support of the 99% works. Move on. If a movement that says its addressing income inequality and money in politics is doomed because it can't simply occupy land it doesn't own, well just go home and quit. Me, the public, is loosing patience with you, the movement that is suppose to be for me (99%) because I don't know what you are doing or how I can help from home.
For one thing, the property they have been occupying is a PUBLIC park. Nobody is moving in and camping out on somebody's farm, get real. If you need the movement to tell you what to do, then you're not really part of the movement anyway. You need to do some thinking on your own and come up with some creative ways to help not just sit by and criticize those who are out there putting their safety and comfort on the line. Send a donation, don't buy what you don't have to have, don't vote for candidates from the major political parties, don't believe the "news" you get from major media, it just goes on and one.. lots of ways to help but first you have to "get it" and I'm not sure you do.
You should read the post at the top here. They are trying to create public space, they are not fixed to a single park. That's what they're going to meet about on 6th and Canal St.
Stop bothering the government. Get a job and quit your complaining. I am 17 years old and I have 2 jobs. It's not that hard.
Oh I see, in 2008 around 5% of the population must have suddenly decided they no longer want to work. It all makes sense now! Bravo young lad, you've cleared up the entire issue!
no they just got too lazy to find a new one
Well, hope you like working 2 jobs because that's what it going to take in this country that is being milked dry by the wealthy. Hope you like giving about 25% of your hard earned money to a system that is ran by people who go to war because it is profitable.. hope you don't get sick because you may end up homeless because you won't be able to afford the outrageous cost of health care in this country where the politicians have a single payer system in place FOR THEMSELVES and NOTHING for the taxpayer. If you're happy with that, then what are you doing here on this blog anyway?
Hey, at least I'm doing the country a favor. By the way, $1,000 a week...... that's more than enough.
Doing this country a favor huh? If you like supporting liars and thieves, go right ahead, myself I would have rather had the $2K I had to pay in taxes so I could put a new roof on my house. I paid a larger percentage of my income in taxes than the percentage most wealthy corporations paid on theirs. Sounds to me like you're just focused on what you're getting not what you're supporting by paying into this crooked system.
Go to Florida. No taxes for job income. Maybe you can stop whining. I agree with the wealthy paying like no taxes though.
First off--you're absolutely right that $1,000 a week is more than enough for a single seventeen year old who is not raising children or anything like that.
However, I think you may have fallen victim to the logical fallacy of anecdotal evidence when you said "it's not that hard." See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anecdotal_evidence
The fact that it was easy for you to get a job does not necessarily mean that it is easy for everyone to get a job. This kind of crappy logic is going to warp (or has already warped, if you're unlucky) your fragile young mind if you're not careful.
Good luck navigating the minefield of adults trying to bully you into thinking like them. Go find out what post hoc ergo propter hoc means and apply the idea to every news show your parents watch.
You must be upside down, as you see things upside down. It is the government who must stop bothering the people.
Ummm.... protesting? Am I the only one here with common sense?
You know, if we DON'T set up encampments, we take away their "homeless, dirty hippie" argument. Occupy...all day, every day, and then go home and sleep every night. The point will be made even MORE powerfully.
It also takes away the chance of being seen and heard. It doesn't matter what you do, they will always resort to name calling. If not "dirty hippie", then it'll be "socialist", or "communist", or "anarchist", or "un-American", or "ungrateful", or flibbity-flabbity-floo. Pick a letter of the alphabet, and you'll find at least 3 terms they can use.
http://getoffwallstreet.com/2011/10/07/topless-protesters-prove-occupy-wall-street-not-all-bad/
Wear T-shirts, (no signs or chanting) showing your support for the movement at Macy's Thanksgiving parade. I know I'm grateful for OWS!
I went down to Occupy wall street last week, on my way home a protester with a protest sign harassed me on the fulton street jz platform, screamed at me "you fucking jew, you think you can control everthing, i will say what I want I am not afraid of you fucking jews, and he kept on an on why the jews are bad, untill the train arrived. So you guys lost me...i will rather live in poverty then with a people of hatred...
If a black man robbed you would you dismiss the entire black race?
One crazed hater does not speak for the whole movement. I would also rather live in poverty then in a climate of hate, thankfully the world is changing and the haters will die out.
Yeah it's unfortunate that mostly jews made up the 1%.
Does anyone know if there is a website that shows how much money has been contributed to each politician and by whom. It would be helpful to see which corp. bought which politician. We could fine tune our WALLET protest to the worst corp. offenders and certainly NOT re-elect those politicians.
OWS was born in Liberty Square, but now it does not needs a space, because it has spread to the minds and hearts of the people. it leaves within us and our ideals and dreams. We carrie the movement within us, in the hope to leave our children a better world. This is the begin of the end for the Bloombergs of the world. The platform where they stood for too long made out of 99% of humanity is rambling under them. Let's close our Bank accounts. Do not watch their media. Do not buy any product from a company that expends money in marketing with the major networks. We have the power in our hands, we have not been aware of this.
1 - Occupy is the rising action. 2 - The coming into a unified solution is the denouement. 3 - This will be remembered, the era when humans come into realization that modern civilization was a failure of reality.
SHUT DOWN THE CITY!!!
Watch Man Banter!
www.youtube.com/manbanter
Occupy the government.
There is nothing to do now except to regroup online and plan "Days of Action" and marches. And to re-try tents every Sept 17th!
Bye.
Occupy Washington?
@itsjustdad - thank you John - you are on point with US mass media "inbedded" with the bankers. They are part of the same network working for the 1%.
@itsjustdad - thank you John - you are on point with US mass media "inbedded" with the bankers. They are part of the same network working for the 1%.
Too much emphasis is being put on defending spaces like parks, which are already "public spaces" (as much as something can be under this system). The real advance from this movement is that tens of thousands of people are now meeting regularly here and around the world to discuss the problems we face and how to deal with them collectively.
We can meet regularly without maintaining an encampment in a park that looks more like a sideshow for tourists than anything else. And that has been happening. Most of the people coming out to the GA's are not occupying the park. In Spain, they turned out tens of thousands week after week without maintaining a permanent encampment.
The biggest strides forward so far have been the march that combined with the workers picket in Oakland, shutting down one of the world's largest ports, and other similar actions (e.g. the detachment that joined the locked-out teamsters at Sotheby's last week).
You cannot evict an idea whose time has come. You also cannot confine it to a park. This must either spread or stagnate. That means especially sending delegations to workplaces, unemployment lines, eviction battles, etc., and beginning to immediately figure out what actions to take to move things forward and link up with "regular people" fighting to survive every day.
Exactly - in other words climb out of the world of 'Ideas' and join the world of Real People, Real Situations, Real Struggle and Start Connecting with this '99%' that they all keep saying they act in the name of. I Do support OWS but they indulge in 'navel gazing' sometimes. If they want to Build a Peoples Democracy, they have to start taking on the Peoples Day to Day Struggle for Existence and Participate in that. There is too much 'Change the World by Changing your Mind' BS going on for my liking... Most of the 99% simply Do not have the Time for all this Philosophy. I am glad that the Trade Unions joined in with OWS , they inject a much needed dose of Realism to the Movement. Occupation is 'Real' , it is a Physical Presence which conveys Freedom and Democracy but it has to Extend from there, right into Ordinary Peoples Lives. Otherwise it will degenerate into a remote spectacle.
The encampments, if nothing else, have done a huge job in raising awareness, which is key at this stage.
if you trow Bloomberg out of NY. where is he gonna go? the rest of the world doens't want him either :) Bloomberg needs to realize he is not doing his kids nor grandkids a favor.. He is KILLING his own family
The movement should continue in ALL parks in NYC.
Organize small marches to each park in the city.
Spread out, stop and talk to people during the marches and gain supporters along the way!
Without the large numbers they won't have all the excuses to break up the occupations. Record any police actions!
The numbers will grow in most of the parks. We can all be in solidarity without being in the same park. There are occupations all across the country, why not all across the city?
It is sad that peaceful protest is stopped with a flimsy excuse. The quiet 99% must speak out and let their voices be heard.
I can't wait until the cops, Bloomberg, the Rockefellers and the Rothschilds and all the other Banksters are rotting in a hellish realm. It will warm my heart. ha. ha. ha.
We need direct democracy to bypass the politicians, the banks and Wall Street. "When the government fears the people there is liberty. When the people fear the government there is tyranny."
The National Initiative empowers us to check and balance representatives, similar to ballot initiatives in 24 States, but at all levels from local to national and with major improvements. It gives us a "Plan B" whenever representatives don't represent us. Torture, perpetual wars and debt, domestic spying and bailouts for the rich do not represent us. People tried to get this power from Congress, both in 1907 and 1977, with no success. Rather than beg the existing 13 Legislatures to ratify the Constitution, the Founders had delegates of The People ratify the Constitution at the Constitutional Conventions. James Madison said "The people were in fact, the fountain of all power, and by resorting to them, all difficulties were got over." Please spread the word: http://vote.org/
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My name is Renee. My husband, Joe and I will be joining the protest on Thanksgiving Day. We are thankful to those of you that have stayed faithful to the cause! Power to the people... we are the 99%!
MUAHAAHAHAHAA!!! Can't deal with the truth, can ya'? Wow, took all of about 2 seconds to delete that, huh? POSEURS.
Shut down industry it only pollutes the planet for short term gains. Go plant a tree with your kids. Stop polluting our rivers with coal ash. The government is sick. America was built by foreigners. I don't feel like laughing. I feel sad that our country has been stolen from us. I WANT MY COUNTRY BACK and I AM NOT TAKING YOUR SHIT ANYMORE.
I think that one well organized march on Washington, to speak out against the laws, lawmakers and lobbyists who allow the banks to operate would be worth more than a year of occupying parks in every city. This eviction may be a blessing in disguise.
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Why are you anti OWS posting comments.Are you afraid of us.You better post your comments on your sites.
Great article! I have an idea. lets protest obummer too, cuz isnt he the cause of most of this mess? With his failed policies and all.
Bush 43 is the biggest one who's created this mess. Get a frickin' clue.
Good article! I have a proposal lets protest Obama too, A lot of his failed policies have contributed to this mess we're in!
Technocratic Government Would you VOTE for it? A new government that is against capitalism.
OSW find a solution for capitalism. Send a message to your fellow Americans that they will understand and support. Shut them down is not a long term fix. A day of action will get an equal and opposite reaction from the press and soon you may lose the attention that you have earn up till now. The tab will have to be paid by law abiding citizens of New York not the 1%ers.
Fuck......I've been through this so many times, but no one ever fucking listens, clinging to this stupid theory of no leadership, even the grateful dead had a leader, the most unorganized, chaotic, utopian society America has ever known, had a fucking leader.........
The White House is corrupt. The Congress is corrupt. The Courts are corrupt. The media is corruupt. The 1% is corrupt. The system is corrupt. The only institution that is not corrupt is our military. Army is on our side,and you 1%, better give up peacfully.You are done a lot of damage to our country, it is time to go.You cant buy our voice, you are done , you are finished.You cant kill the peoples movement.Viva America.
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I call president obama to bring in national gard and arrest the criminal 1%. Come on obama, show us ,that you are not the 1%.
Obama is clearly a strong supporter of the 1%. His ACTIONS speak louder than his words.
Just look at his cabinet appointees and advisors. I think you're barking up the wrong tree.
"Americans and people around the world are appalled at Bloomberg's treatment" lets not speak for everyone
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If the old farts (ageist patter will be tolerated) will not allow us to occupy their crusty old parks, then they will not be allowed to occupy the new frontier of youth, the world wide web. Beware old farts, Tunisia has arrived at wall street, and the insurrection is here. The time has arrived for the return of the guillotine.
I am a 53 year old fart and you should not be ageist. We are not all 'crusty'. As for the 'Web' being the 'new frontier of youth' I will have you know that I was using Computers when you were not yet in nappies my dear ! Most of you youngsters are tied to Proprietary Computer Software and Systems, which makes you vulnerable to being shut down,if the authorities so wish. You should learn to use Free, as in Freedom Software, Learn to Programme the machines, not just 'communicate' with them, learn the art of cryptography, IP/TCP, Networks, Routers in a word genuine 'hacking' which is not the same as being a 'Script Kiddie'. Sorry if you are already adept in the 'black arts' but many young people are very ignorant about these things, all they know how to do is text on their cell phones. The people who control the 'cloud' data centres are mostly 'old farts'. Google, Microsoft, Blackberry. You should not rely on such things. Stick to Peer to Peer communication and use memory sticks. Linux can be loaded onto a memory stick and run without touching the 'hard drive' . You can machine code the Linux so it is impossible to 'crack or hack' . You might already know all this but most young people are complete slaves to Microsoft, Apple or Blackberry. Not realising that they leave themselves wide open to being intercepted or shut down at a moments notice. Most Commercial Computers are nothing but spy platforms for the Big Corporations and don't even begin to talk to me about Computer Games Consoles... So don't judge us all as being 'old farts' . Some of us are on your side and were occupying the electronic frontier long before you were thought of !
Sail on zsazsa! Don't be muted by those who believe that slinging racist or biggoted drivel at you will end a discussion. Perhaps it will end a dialogue with them, but forge ahead brave soul! It is wonderful that your generation is taking control, as mine has failed miserably. Signed, an old fart.
New Frontier of Youth? Is that in Mein Kampf? just curious. Now back to the real issues
The term extremist is used to describe groups and individuals who have become radicalized, in some way, even though the term radical originally meant to go to the root of a (social) problem. The term radical is one not normally regarded as pejorative (except perhaps in the United States of America).
"the police is a tool of the business-run, or business-influenced state to try to crush the ones who want to take back from the wealthy what has been stolen thru bailouts, exploitation and speculation at the stock exchange" The police are in on the whole thing? Really? Your just mad you're "people" are getting maced in the face. The police officers are there to protect the public, they have families like everyone else. The corporate exec's aren't gonna Boston Massacre you're asses, so dont get your hopes up. There are about three people in this whole movement who actually know what they need to fix the system, the rest just want to be "part of something" and are very ignorant, undereducated images of your movement. Youre following has grown only because of the internet, and social media. If this was actually worth fighting for, you wouldnt need these websites to constantly remind people why they are pissed off. Put down the Jefferson Airplane already.
Can you tell me why JP Morgan donated 40 plus mil to the NYPD? You have too much faith that people in positions of power have everyones wellbeing in their best interest. You, are naive. I'm surprised you actually hit puberty.
so you guys are about censorship? you can't handle what people say? you might want to think about this aspect of your website as it is not constitutional and it infringes on my rights. get it right or else this will not work! I KNOW HOW TO SPELL RON P A U L PEOPLE ! but, it seems as if you people don't. e.g.: Ron Lawl
The Bill of Rights places limits on Congressional power. This is not a congressional website. The maintainers have a right to prevent endless spam and non-productive slogan screaming.
there is freedom in taking responsibility....you should try it some time
People who are out of work and out of home are paying the price for screw-ups made in Wall Street. How are people not taking responsibility when they are suffering all the consequences? The only people you have a right to complain about are those who are NOT facing the consequences for their actions.
the blame cannot be placed in one place alone
Oh heavens no. We could never consider placing blame when it comes to Wall Street. Taking responsibility is only for working people, those lazy no-gooders. There is "freedom in taking responsibility.... YOU should try it some time, but not me of course".
Capitalism for the poor, socialism for the rich.
i would not like to argue. i believe we ALL need to take responsibility. government, financial corp, as well as the American people. i completely take responsibility for my choices and decisions, but i cannot make other take responsibility for theirs, so i must do my part and do what i can for myself and others.
All right, let's be fair about this.
The FBI reports that 80% of the mortgage fraud was lender fraud. Wall Street also lobbied to have the SEC leverage requirements changed from 12-to-1 to 50-to-1 in 2005. So Wall Street deserves (49/50 + 1/5080%) and the home loan people deserve (1/5020%).
http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/fcs_report2007
So you're right, it's not all Wall Street's fault, just 99.6%.
ok, i see what you're saying and you can state the statistics and i do not agree with all this greed and corruption, but i have to take responsibility in the investments i put into. i have to research and make an informed decision. i have to look at my finances and no whether i can make an investment of any magnitude. should we be able to rely on people to do their job?....yes, but in the world today unfortunately, i cannot, so, i am ultimately responsible for what i do. if i put money into retirement i'm intrusting that money to my broker, but if the market sucks and takes a dive, well, i'm responsible for putting that money in that investment in the first place. personally, i will take responsibility. if you don't then that your prerogative. in the end i think we will agree to disagree. stay well, stay true and enjoy yourself
I think we perfectly agree. If a person makes a mistake, or takes a risk, it's their own fault.
However, Wall Street took risks with other people's money they broke the law to get, and then robbed the taxpayer instead of facing the music.
But you're right, in general everyone needs to take some responsibility. People just get resentful when they see selective application of this rule.
absolutely, and i agree that all these people should be held accountable for there crimes. pisses me just as much to see them get away with it.
Why does this whole movement resemble a south pacific cargo cult?
Are you implying that people are performing rituals that are unrelated to a result due to a false belief in causation? Care to clarify your comparison, or are you just slinging mud and voicing hate?
you people are just as bad! i wrote "ron p a u l " and it was printed as "ron lawl" !!! absurd!
vote for Ron Lawl - he's the only one who know anything about the federal reserve and how it is corrupt
ehh no. He´s corporation´s best friend. He wants to give HUGE tax cuts to billionaires and give all the power to people who are not elected by the people :private tyrannies
ok fine, you have your opinion but it is NOT RIGHT for this site to change my WORDS!!!! absolutely absurd and against what all of this is about!
The simple truth is that you lost the local community support when the protest transitioned from a rally to a tent city, complete with gas generators. OWS became the 1% - a small UNELECTED group dictating use of a public space for many tens of thousands of people. The community boards, local elected officials, and many residents supported OWS heavily for the first 6 weeks and OWS continuously ignored their reasonable concerns. When those local elected officials felt that the people who vote for them stopped supporting OWS, the mayor then had political support for this action.
Its what democracy looks like.
Yep. It became elitist, pure and simple.
MP Noam Chomsky [New] will be right there with you, working as a team of 100, answering email and fielding phone calls. Not!
i love what you are fighting for !, but on the other hand i dont belive being peacefull will work iuf you really want to have a revolution we must go to war are you willing to die for the cause? thats what it comes down to there just waiting for you to leave war is the only way you will get what you want. just like in the middle east rullers must be taking down with an iron fist!
Recall obama,congress,mayors.
occupy Goldman Sachs and the banks - why didn't these plans succeed ? We never got to hear about the result of these initiatives?
The Mid-West Super-state Parliament (Iowa, Illinois, Minnesota and Wisconsin) is looking for volunteer vote counters and people who like to work together electing Cabinet Ministers and making decisions as a team under the Sainte-Lague parliament seat distribution system.
Need not be a resident to participate.
Contact Prime Ministers Tina Cook [Independent], Joshua-Paul Angell [Socialist, CPUSA], David L. Wetzell [LT Party Movement] or Secretaries Mosheh Thezion [Republican] and Diana P Fanai [All Party System] for more information at http://www.usparliament.org/ss8.php
Building a free speech communication coalition and voting with the Green Tea Party members are among the responsibilities.
OWS-NY: Sending you support and well wishes from CA.
Occupy a student loan, a shower & razor, a suit, some guts and tenacity, and work hard to occupy a job. Nothing worth having ever comes easy. You are entitled to NOTHING.
Occupy a student loan, a shower & razor, a suit, some guts and tenacity, and work hard to occupy a job. Nothing worth having ever comes easy. You are entitled to NOTHING.
Occupy a student loan, a shower & razor, a suit, some guts and tenacity, and work hard to occupy a job. Nothing worth having ever comes easy. You are entitled to NOTHING.
You people are so full of shit it's laughable. No one is taking you seriously and the only fucking thing you're accomplishing is being a health hazard & pain in the ass for people who actually DO have to work & don't have weeks to spend laying in the grass in a fucking tent smoking weed, fucking each other and shitting in public at your little day camps, while you go home at night to sleep in nice cozy beds & have dinner with Mommy & Daddy. It's not fucking Woodstock and this ain't the '60's. Can't wait til they get fed up enough to call out the National Guard and end this shit once and for all. Another Kent State is what you all need at this point. So glad to hear that New York finally came to its senses and hauled your disease-ridden asses out of there. And YOU'RE the 1% where it comes to anyone who actually supports this bullshit.
Did somebody invent a time machine? How is it possible that they got a pre-civil rights era backwards thinking fascist on this forum? The marvels of technology!
to Occupy is to be aggressive...you are an aggressive occupation and you need to be fought...much like people across time have risen up to fight occupying armies...
Were is my stuff? Someone just stole crap out if my tent!!! WTF!!!!!
I hate the idea, but we need some martyrs. Some people to voluntarily sacrafice as in Tunisia, and involuntarily in Egypt. Only blood will arouse the public from its apathy. Everyones fear of losing what they have, little as it is.
Perhaps peaceful efforts will succeed, but the plight of the blacks are not that much better after their non-violent struggle since the 60's. Rights disappear down the maws of Patriot Acts, Home Security measures, etc. Social disruption is the way until we get an American Spring, which will spread around the world. We must also retain our strength while reforming our government and finance systems. Good luck to all.
Zeitgeist Moving Forward: Google it. You will be glad you did
You need a leader.
You need a leader of this movement. The civil rights movement had King, the Third Estate Sieyès... without a leader, a single voice to express the concerns of the many... no one is getting heard. At this rate I fear this movement will shrivel and die out.
I am not so sure about the premise that we need a "leader" to emerge. I think that we are living history now as it unfolds, and the jury is out concerning just how powerful this movement of individuals can become by the use of the Internet (social media), freedom of speech, freedom of assembly, and even peaceful civil disobedience, as opposed to a traditional leadership model.
From every spark of light, a super nova.
Your lack of true organization will be your downfall.
Our representative government requires that we have representatives. It is important for leadership to emerge and for the Occupy movement to choose political candidates to back. Laws and policies must be changed. For that to happen, for anything to happen, there must be people in government who will propose the laws that the Occupy movement wants and other people in government to vote those proposals into law. Whether it's one vote per person or whether we continue the farce of the electoral college, the movement still needs to have people to vote for or it will not make any permanent change. Even bringing the downtown area of every city in the world to a halt is not enough to make any permanent change if there are no people in government to back us. The movement needs leaders.
That is the road to being totally absorbed in the same old system. The whole point of all this is to try and establish an Alternative form of Democracy, namely Direct Democracy. This was the Original Democracy of Ancient Greece. Modern Technology enables us to do this on a Mass Scale. 'Representative Democracy' has Failed miserably. It is better than No Democracy at all but it is still not fit for Modern Purpose. The People in charge increasingly fail to 'Represent' anyone but themselves and their Selfish Interests. The day when a 'Leader emerges' from this, is the day when I shall retreat back to my Books. It won't achieve anything.
You time has indeed come... to go home, back to your parents basements.
Another Fox news moron. Your time has come, go read a book or something and get your nose out of Fox news so you can clear your mind a bit.. it needs it.
'Read a book' ... 'Fox News' ... sorry but that will never happen, you cannot mix oil with water...
Your nonsensical post proves my point.
Dear me, Having No sense of humour is often a sign of having no sense. I was supporting your point .... I was pointing out that someone who is dumb enough to watch Fox News is unlikely to be smart enough to read a book... the two activities are incompatible with one another.. like Oil and Water ... Get it ?
How often should I wash my clothes?
If you're part of OWS then I guess it would be weeks....
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If archaeologists in the future dig up this comment, they're going to scratch their heads, but at least they'll understand the mindset of the people who are driving our nation into oblivion.
You have allowed this oligarchy... politicians are sponsored... the dice are loaded... the playing field is slanted... business is government and corporations are now people... THAT is the issue... but we know the truth and the power of this country lies with it's people... of, for and by the people, and at 99% we say we have the numbers. we are taking it back, not for a free ride, I don't know what that is, this struggle is work, as is supporting a family... the stays quo is changing, the paradigm is shifting... you wanted a New World Order??? we are it.
How do you go about "reclaiming our humanity"? This sounds like it was written by a 14yr old. This is all hyperbole and propaganda to further incite and motivate what few drones they have left. Pitiful, just absolutely pathetic.
And what do you suggest?
I hope you all know that you are only hurting small business and encouraging big business to move to other countries that are more than willing to accept them with open arms while you still buy their products every day and night. Get off your ass and find a way to support the local business and the people who are trying to make a living still in this economy. Also by requiring a login in and setup to your specific rules that state you can tell people what to do when to do it and how to do it is worse than many communist countries have it today. (it makes your complete movement hypocrite's and the opposite of freedom of speech.)
Hi, I witting to you, because i have no idea what your message is. All i gather from your web-site, is that you are upset that the people on wall street make more money than you do. There are a lot of people out there that make more money, and they don't work on wall street. are you mad at all of them as well? Also, you say that you are the 99 percent, but you cant possibly be, because majority of the country does not agree with your cause, and they are not in the 1 percent, so that kinda makes you the 20 percenters, at most. I'm a disabled veteran and is unemployed for over a year and i have a 3 month old son, but i went back to school to better myself, and working my ass off to ensure my family is safe. I don't envy those who make more money than me. So what is your message 20 percenters? all i see is that you are wasting your time, and disrupting peoples lives, and jobs, and hurting those "99 percent" that you are representing. Occupy the Holland tunnel? so that you can cause traffic, and a disruption in the work day, so that the truck driver fails to make his deliveries, and that small trucking company to loose money, and lay off workers because of you! Selfish goals, and envy is the only thing i see that drives your "protests". If you want to make more money, and have better opportunities, make them! join the military! get a job working any job you can! fight for your future! begging at the street corner for someone to give you money is not a solution. Our country is founded on men that fought, and sacrificed their lives. You are bringing disgrace upon our nation's founders, and the one's who died for our country You should be protesting against our government, our congress, and politicians that make so much money, and yet no longer represent our nations population. they no longer represent the people, only their own pockets. Fight against the corruption in our political system! wall street workers don't really have much to do with that! You are an embarrassment t our nation!and your not the 99 percent!
Disgruntled American Veteran!
Nobody is angry at people because they have money.
People want a fair society where people can make HONEST money. They are upset that a TARP program sent $700 billion to Wall Street, the Quantitative Easing program sent another $600 billion, they've received about $20 trillion in loan guarantees, and that their speculation drives up the costs of food and basically everything else so that we all pay a hidden tax to Wall Street.
People are against extreme student debt, the lack of available jobs, the opportunities for betterment. This isn't rocket science.
Did you fight for your country so big business could put a boot in your face?
About the message of "Disgruntled American Veteran" I would add "patriot" to his name. His message should be required reading for every OWS protester. Sure there are inequalities, always have been, but common sense tells you that destroying private property, hurting and causing loss for hard-working Americans, and committing crimes and turning streets into cesspools, is not the answer or the American way. Sure, I also think Congress should give up their perks, and a great number of politicians should be jailed as criminals for destroying America. Same goes for fatcats who give and take obscene bonuses at the expense of the American taxpayers. But joining with Socialists and Marxists, who are probably paying a bunch of you, is just adding to the problem. --LikeStrongWorkEthic
stop being protesters and start organizing a military
losers!
Yet another name calling idiot with absolutely no rational argument for their stance. You are the "loser" since you obviously can't even articulate what it is that you disagree about. You're not capable of saying anything original or intelligent so go back to your Fox news programming and stop wasting the time and space on this blog.
What makes you a winner?
Psalm 123: 4 Have mercy upon us, O LORD, have mercy, * for we have had more than enough of contempt,
5 Too much of the scorn of the indolent rich, * and of the derision of the proud.
Ah a quote from the bible.. how appropriate. Religion, the organization who has always been right there to help the rich suppress the poor.
I'M ON DRUGS !!!! Having the best time here of my life here. NYU !!!!!!! Damn should i go to class tonight?
I just want to heard ! And get high and get laid too.
Who is selling pot down there? We need more. Let us know.
Only thing that would have made the arrests better, was if the cops were all wearing those Guy Fawkes masks.
and joined the protestors instead of evicting them.
So glad to see the law breaking homeless people evicted from the park. Such a burden relieved for downtown residents, workers, and store owners.
Why don't you free loaders just go back you your parents and ask them for money or better yet, JUST GET A JOB!
Obviously you don't get it. Why don't you just go back to your television "programming" and quit trying to participate in a revolution when you need to participate in an evolution.
From AMERICAN THINKER (15Nov):
The OWS crowd likes to compare their encampment to the occupation of Tahrir Square in Cairo during the revolution there. Sorry, not even close. First of all, the Cairo protest had thousands of campers. Zucotti park had a couple of hundred. Secondly, there was no problem with sanitation or disease in Tahrir Square because Egyptian youth obviously have a better grasp of like, you know, washing yourself, not defacating everywhere and anywhere, how to get rid of garbage and uneaten food, and how to prevent acquiring head lice in confined quarters. The Tahrir Square protestors also knew about patrolling the venue to prevent crime. Simple sanitation was so far beyond the imagining of the OWS crowd that they allowed their encampment to become a rat trap - a festering public health hazard. In their idea of a utopian society, nobody was responsible for anything. And since they had no ownership stake in the property, they saw no reason to maintain it. It doesn't matter if you agree with their critique or their goals - or not. They will never understand how they endangered the city through their laziness, ignorance, and deliberate uncaring attitudes toward the rest of the population. Draining police resources - resources that could have been used to prevent crime in far more dangerous areas of the city - also showed a juvenile selfishness about their cause, and their own inflated opinion of themeselves. They will probably throw a tantrum and riot today. Good. It will expose them as the dangerous, immature children that they've always been.
you clearly do not speak from first hand experience. there never was a health issue; this was only an empty excuse to break down the occupation. the ows protesters are the best organized protesters i have ever encountered. they organized sanitation crews, maintained respect for the park, and have gone above and beyond to minimize the environmental impact of this mass movement. shake yourself out of your stupor and organize your own counter-movement if you are keen on maintaining the purity of cairo's ideals. you help no one by denigrating others.
denigrating others? you can't even engage the discourse without personalizing it as an attack you moron. what "best organized protestors i have ever encountered" are you talking about - do you take this type of political action as a hobby or as a job? btw, i don't see Adbusters' senior editor Micah White standing at your side or sleeping on the ground in solidarity with you - what agency are you talking from?
let's not forget your idiotic notions of organized non-violent protest that perpetrated numerous sexual assaults and the aggressive posturing with local businesses and residents.
Why are you name calling? Denigrate means "to treat or represent as lacking in value or importance; belittle; disparage." That's exactly what you were doing. To say you were denigrating is not to say you're a moron. It's just pointing out the fact that you were disparaging, belittling, and generally putting down the OWS folks. Why so angry? Have they done something personally to you? Is everything in your universe so 100% perfect that you see no reason for our government or society to change or improve in any way? It sounds like you're making judgments based on news reports and stuff you read on the internet, while the other poster is making statements based on their own first-hand knowledge of the situation. Have you been to Zucotti Park to see their sanitation and hygeine? Have you been to Tahrir Square? I haven't, so I wouldn't make any kind of comparison like that. Have you?
It sounds like mullteforme has been to the protest, while FreeMarkets hasn't. So, why are you calling mullteforme a moron???
And this is exactly the same kind of complaint heard against the abolitionists, the Women's Movement, Civil Rights, labor laws, and the Anti-War movements. Same old tired arguments. When you can't find fault with their cause, complain about the trash.
EXACTLY!!!!
I'm sure you're just relaying your first-hand experiences from Tahrir Square - you know, reflecting on the countless weeks you spent at ground zero of the Egyptian Revolution. I'm sure you're not just speaking out of your ignorant uneducated ass. Let me guess, you flipped on FOX news for 20 minutes this morning to be told what to think and say, then you logged on here. Endangered the city? Clearly you're not a NYer speaking with any experience on this matter either.
Of course, neither you or mullteforme could parse the first sentence, showing that I copied this from AMERICAN THINKER. Whatever, you are so filled with your narcissism that it is to be expected.
So you are saying that Egyptians are more civilized than Americans? That sounds like a pretty racist comment to me.
Ah yes. The old strawman argument. Seems to be a specialty here. Let me try:
So you are saying that turtles have more toenails than lizards? Sounds like you really hate reptiles to me.
The number of toenails a being has is not a value judgment. A person's ability and desire to maintain personal hygiene and environmental sanitation would be considered a value judgment. So one could be construed as a racist comment and the other could not.
If you have to "construe" whether something is "racist", the it probably isn't.
It's not a strawman. A strawman is when you put words into someone's mouth, like you are doing to me.
What you are doing is in fact, an attack on the person, or personal credibility.
Look at what you said, in essence:
When Egyptians protested, they were cleaner than when the Americans did it.
Cleanliness is next to godliness, so
Therefore, Egyptian freedom of speech is more valuable than the American's right to freedom of speech.
You are making this too easy for me . . . please try harder
You can win every argument, if you willfully ignore what everyone has to say. I'm not sure what the point of it is though, to gloat to yourself about your intellectual superiority?
If you all think you can change things come up with some plans or ideas that will actually work...but then again most of you are losers and have nothing better to do than piss and poop in Central Park!!
you dumb asses!!!!!!! you preach all of your bs..yet you can afford to sit there for several months and not work..GET A JOB!!!!your president belittles these corporations and wall street execs, yet he takes there money for his campign..talk about 2 faced..LIVE WITH IN YOUR MEANS, AND GET A JOB!!!
We live in an age of specialization so pervasive that it extends not only to the role of politician, but even as far as the role of activist. Though it makes no money, it is a life pursuit, like any profession. They act out and make a stink. These young people can sit out in the cold with basic sustenance - not everyone is in a position to do this. They speak for everyone who wishes they could be there (Like me. I have a job. A terrible job. So I can't be there.). These people are our mouthpieces and our arms. They wield the power of the people on our behalf. They have a job: To liberate the 99% from economic injustice. Power to them.
American vets back from the war are not lazy. When there is one job opening for every six applicants only so many people can fit into a phone booth. Why is it so difficult to believe that there are 400 very greedy Americans as opposed to believing that there are 150,000,000 lazy Americans? Americans, many vets included, need jobs not a work ethic. Coal miners are not lazy. Greedy corporations that do not care to pay for safety systems are greedy. Slaves were not lazy they were abused. Greed is as wrong as laziness. Learn more about greed. A father who eats twice what his small children eat is normal. A father who eats 75% of the food on the table and starves three of his kids is an asshole.
The jobs DO NOT EXIST. And we are aware that it's the SYSTEM that is flawed. Obama is working within the system and, therefore, part of the problem. He's not 'our' president.
What's the use in working a job so they can tax me at a higher rate than multi billion dollar corporations pay? When I see the corporations taxed at a fair rate and the common working class person represented in DC, I'll have an interest in working.. til then I'm just getting screwed so what's the point?
Must be nice to live in your nice simple world where everything is black and white
They need to take a bath.....Filthy Hippies
and you need to pull your head out of your backside, you're spouting forth sewage.
and you have been to Occupy how many times?
You are not helping with the ECONOMY by ranting around wall street and stinking up the neighborhood, why not be civilized human beings and do something else like bring your crap arguments to congress, lol they probably won't do anything because they don't want to listen to left side dirt bag hippy liberals, THIS ISN'T 1969. GO HOME you alll STINK LIKE CRAP and YOUR ARGUMENTS MAKE NO SENSE. WE ARE THE 1%
I doubt that you are part of the 1% - more like Lowest Percentile of the 99% I would guess ! I hope that you live long and prosper under your Corporate Masters.
Figures you would be from Merrick