AFT fully endorses Occupy Wall Street
Posted 13 years ago on Oct. 6, 2011, 4:48 p.m. EST by OccupyWallSt
The American Federation of Teachers Local 1839 fully endorses Occupy Wall Street.
In solidarity on behalf of our Local,
Ivan S. Steinberg, President AFT Local 1839
William Calathes, Executive Vice President AFT Local 1839
Unions may be corrupt, like any "system" there is the top and the bottom, but at least unions were created by the people, for the people in response to absolute disgusting work conditions existing at the time. I am wondering if anyone here posting has worked in the private sector? I'm in healthcare, for 18 years, and have worked for both the public and private sector and let me tell you, good luck to you without some sort of protective organization looking out for you and your job. The private sector is insane, bosses can fire you arbitrarily-because they don't like the fact that you are aware of their extra-marital affair goings on around the office or because your child was sick for a week and you needed to cut back on work for a week! Also, forget about job security without a union. Thank god the unions are joining in on this movement-unions full of hardworking people who understand the value of worker rights. I can't speak of the corruption that exists in unions because from where I'm sitting both private and public sectors have their burdens of blame to share when it comes to that. At least unions existence is for the workers rights. As a person who's worked in both sectors, the union job is the only way to go. Private sector employment leaves you are at the mercy of your employers whims, and to a degree that far surpasses any human expectation of reasonability.
The real problem is not unions. That is corporate billionaire propaganda. The real problem is the massive "wealth redistribution" that has gone on for the last 30 years. With the decline of unions and the lowering of the marginal tax rates from 90% in 1950's to 36% now, all of the nation's wealth has been paid out at the top to the corporate executives.
The middle class spends their wealth on goods/services and the corporations have redistributed their wealth by paying their profits all out to the executives and shareholders. Middle class wages have stagnated for 30 years while executive wages have gone up 256% in since 1980. Even last year executive compensation went up another 11%. The top 1% now controls over 42% of the entire nation's wealth. We have not seen numbers like this since the great depression. The top 10% controls 70% of the entire nation's wealth. All of our nation's wealth has been redistributed into the hands of the few.
The middle class was roped into replacing wages with easy credit. So instead of paying people living wages, corporations fooled us into thinking we were doing well and could afford things by giving us easy credit instead of wages. Instead of having wages to buy t.v.'s, furniture, etc. we were given easy loans. So the middle class became a debtor class. There used to be a tax disincentive to paying out all of corporate profits at the top because in the 1950's income was taxed at 90% over a certain amount money and now that tax disincentive has disappeared. In 1950's the highest marginal tax rate was 90%. In 1960-1970's it was 70%. In 1980's it dropped to 49%. In 1990's dropped to 39%. Under George Bush it dropped to a mere 36%. We have had over 30 years of massive tax cuts for the wealthy.
There is now no tax disincentive to paying out all of the corporate wealth at the top. And there is no employee bargaining power because now less than 12% of all of our jobs are unionized. Corporate profits are at an all time high, healthcare company profits are at an all time high, and oil profits are at an all time high. We don't have a healthcare crisis we have a healthcare company profit-taking crisis that no politician will doing anything about. Healthcare and oil companies have enjoyed a decade of record profits while we have had a decade of massive premiums for little coverage and a decade of outrageous gas prices.
The problems are: 1) deregulation of the banks by the Republican-controlled congress in 1999; 2) hedge funds are exempt from regulation; 3) tax system no longer has a disincentive against paying outrageous executive salaries (highest marginal tax rate has dropped from 90% to 36%); 4) commodities market is exempt from regulation (Republican-controlled Congress exempted it in the Commodities Future Modernization act of 2000); 5) the Supreme Court has ruled that corporations can spend unlimited funds in campaign elections (thus politicians on both sides favor the wealthy/corporations) and 6) the rise of corporate/billionaire propaganda media "news." Because of the need to raise massive sums in politics today, we no longer have a party that represents the people. The Democrats have to chase the corporate and big money donors too.
What can we do about this: 1) re-instate Glass-Steagall Act regulating the banks; 2) regulate hedge funds and the commodities market (because the commodities market is not regulated speculation has caused prices for commodities to go through the roof); 3) get rid of the money in politics (have federally funded elections with clear limits on spending and no outside groups allowed to have ads); 4) get rid of 1980's laws stating that corporations' only duty is to maximize shareholder profits; and 5) regulate "news" channels and newspapers (no more "slanted opinion news" masquerading as hard news) and reinstitute the fairness doctrine across all news outlets to ensure that both sides get equal time.
Corporations should have duties to society and to their workers too. They should have to balance their duties to maximize shareholder profits against their reinstated duties to their employees and to society. The laws saying that corporations' only duty is to maximize shareholder profits have led to the destruction of long-term business plans and care for their workers and have created short-term profit monsters at the expense of workers and society.
Fantastic summery of the real problems we're facing, but I urge all of us to reject the "good cop/bad cop" lie of republicans vs democrats.
This is how the ruling elite keep us divided, and the only way the 1% can further their agenda is with a divided population.
The near entirety of the US government is corrupt and run by political Bribe-takers, bought and paid for by people who have amassed the most wealth overall in this country (Top 1% of the US Population).
In order to prevent revolts from the increased burden to the unrepresented in this country, the Super Rich have set up a bogus political party to siphon off and redirect the anger of the masses (The Republicans) and an ineffectual party (The Democrats) to cave to “republican pressure,” while pretending to care about the masses. In addition, they have co-opted and bought out nearly all of the mainstream media, in order to filter out any info that would lay the blame on the true culprit, instead leaving the majority of America divided and focusing their energies on decoy scapegoats and partisan nonsense.
The entire system is broken, and we are kidding ourselves if we believe either "side" is on our side.
We need all Americans to understand that neither party serves the people, and until we remove all soft money from politics, and make the bribery that is lobbying illegal, this will never change.
Very true. It is so obvious. You watch the billionaires back the small minority called the tea party, than the republicans act like the tea party is twisting their arm and making them do what they do, then the democrats act like the republicans are twisting their arm and making them do what they do, and in the end you have the billionaires getting it their way, it is such an obvious scam.
First, The Tea Party is hardly a small minority. If we were, we would not have had such a huge effect on BOTH parties durring the last election. Second, we Tea Party supporters can only wish we had billionair support. Everything we do is funded by donations from small time people, just like you. Third Didn't your group align itself with MoveOn.org? That group was started by none other than George Soros, one of the biggest billionairs you claim to hate. Make up your mind will you.
(You must have had to erase the the letterhead from the Koch brothers off your post). Why do you think you had so much pull in politics and so much attention from the media ? If you even had a gathering of 20 people the major media's cnn, fox, pbs, etc, was there covering you from 15 different camera angles, trying to make you look big as possible as you carried the signs protesting for lowering taxes for the rich and union busting, remind you of any group in particular ? To be honest I was sick to death of both parties years ago and seriously thought about the tea party when they were first formed but it was obvious they were quickly shanghaied by the extreme right, aka; extremely wealthy. They own the media, the lobbyist's, the politicians. You guys had every advantage promoting you to be more than you really are. The wall street people had/have been completely ignored by the media, (the same corporate media that lavished the tea party with recognition,) until their shear numbers alone could no longer be kept from sight, once acknowledged they were/are ridiculed by the media, aww a bunch of dumb hippies, rebels without a cause is the media portrayal of them, A diabolical obama plan, None of which is true. The tea party is really nothing more than the extreme right wing of the republican party, anybody who has even halfway listened to the republicans over the years knows that. It is a very well orchestrated sham by the elite wealthy. We use our many resources to promote the tea party to push our extremist agenda, the republican party goes ow ow ow the tea party is making us do it, then the democrats go ow ow ow the republicans are making us do it and in the end who is running the country and getting what they want ? Golly gee big money, who woulda guessed. Both party's are bought and paid for and the 99 percent know it.
We need to change the tables. Instead of trying to keep money from bottomless corporate pockets from reaching the palms of our lawmakers, we need to remove the palms altogether. Since Congress has had a dismal approval rating for decades, and curently at less than 10%, it needs to go the way of the typewriter.
I agree but the problem with that is that we are playing into their hands by lessening our representation. I know right now we aren't being represented by these people but, if the system was working right it is a good system. Maybe give them a one time pass, no more lobbying, a reform in the campaign financing system back to what it was and tell them everything is forgiven, here is your one chance to represent the people who voted for you and if their found taking more bribes or voting the opposite of what they ran on, out with them, no retirement, no keeping your brides, nothing.
You must have had to erase the the letterhead from msnbc off your post.
one silly, lame, lefty media cliche after another. (except "Both party's are bought and paid for" which is true)
try thinking for yourself. then you'd know you should be in DC protesting the GOP and the DNC rather than wall st.
Personally I think obama is the biggest sell out of the people in the history of this country. I don't choose between party lines, sometimes I vote republican, sometimes democrat, who ever I think is the best PERSON, not party PERSON for the job. This last election I did a write in for a PERSON that just happened to be a republican, (couldn't stand McCain or Obama) and a democrat the election before that And you? Do you look at the candidates or have you always voted down party lines? As of right now my view is we are between a rock and a hard spot, Obama is nothing but an elitist trojan horse and the republicans appear to be more of a sideshow than a political party. The only answer I see is the whole house needs to be backed into a corner and told to listen to their real constituents, us, or hit the road. My political view, a balance of capitalism and socialism makes for a decent country to live in, you know, kinda like America use to be. But being the biggest war mongering nation on earth kinda empties the people pockets.
Remove any Politician that gives Trillions of dollars to Perpetuate Needless Foreign Wars, Banks, Wall Street, and “Money Laundering” Fake green energy companies. If the energy company is real and has potential, then good, give them money. Don't give money to a company just because the company gives big money to the Politician. The Politician will then blame the company that received the money, sound familiar? The largest criminal is the Politician. Remove the Politicians that vote for, or do nothing to stop this behavior. It is that easy. If they are corrupt, Republican or Democrat, vote them out. Not all Politicans are bad, but enough are. We need to remove the Politicians and not let them play us against each other, so it keeps our attention off their power grabs, using our money. They are trying to distract us off of who is giving our money away, “the Politicians.” Let’s focus on Protesting Washington.
I'm confused as to why everyone agrees that both the republican and democratic parties don't serve our needs, but no one wants a new party to be formed through this movement in order to enact the changes we want to see, and to break the two-party system you describe?
Any insights into this resistance to organize?
http://detters2cents.wordpress.com/2011/10/11/considering-the-political-spectrum/
Nice to see support for our cause.
http://www.easymuaythai.com/
Yes, we need all the help we can get.
Thanks from Clive @ http://easydiablo3.com/.
Do you support removing union money from politics as well?
Your summary is the best I have seen. Most americans are "dumbed down" and do not know what has transpired systematically over the last 30 years. We need to throw out all democrats and republicans and start over. There is no other alternative. The system is rigged.
That's not necessary. If you take the money out of politics (with publicly funded elections for example, and/or a 4 week election season) the people who were only in it for the money will leave. We'll get a better class of politician.
And it's really not ALL the politicians fault when we allowed a system to develop that REQUIRES them to go to the wealthy begging to run for office. Even Mother Theresa would have to make back room deals to run for office.
Agreed, how do we make this happen legislatively for this considering all the anger about government spending already?
Start with a frank discussion admitting that "we the people" allowed this situation to develop and (giving them an "out" if they're willing to take it) it's not wholly the politician's fault, they're (to an extent) victims of this system created by the wealthy.
Next, form an alliance of voters (from all parties) to refuse to vote for candidates who aren't willing to push for these reforms.
1) Repeal Citizens United 2) Pure Public Funding for elections (start with local elections) 3) Shorten the election season to 4-5 weeks, so it's cheaper 4) Push the FCC to classify political ads as free public service messages.
Definetly. The system no longer Sustains We The People!
Throw out all Democrats and Republicans. Then what? Throw out Congress, throw out the President, throw out the Supreme Court?
Who are you going to replace those people with? Are you going to draft random citizens? LOL Are you going to have the entire country vote on every issue? LOL
GET REAL
The decentralization of dozens of Federal Agencies and empowerment of the states and municipalities would directly decrease the systems ability to be corrupted by corporate influence and increase peoples actual representation. This transition would have nothing to do with random citizens being elected, you think the head of the DEA, IRS, or any federal agency is elected by the people. The first agency to start with would be the FED!
Go to a source of the problem? Now you're just being silly.
Hey replace them with Muppets!
It's a start and it is going to GET REAL,how about replacing them with people who are without special interest and who are actually for all the people
A lot of politicians start off that way without special interests. The problem is once they're in they do get bought out.
You know, it really is a vision I like, throwing everyone out. There would be food shortages and transportation would be a little dicey for a while; I think these would be the most significant problems, but we would get over it. On the other hand, the ridiculous wealth of creativity that would be freed up... Imagine if we shuttered television along with politics... I don't know, it's a dreamworld; It's hard to say what it would be like; but it's clear to me that what I have the biggest problem with is this kind of ethic of the necessity of preserving the present. How great do you think things are that it's unimaginable to remake them?
Your capital letters make it hard to take you seriously.
How great? We're still a 1st world nation. We still have better life quality than a lot of other countries. Do you know how devastating it would be to remake everything? It would probably trigger an even worse economic response than the recession. Throwing the entire government out essentially sets up a period of lawlessness. It's highly impractical to start over from scratch. Once all the new people are in, there will still be external money trying to buy power. I think we need a cultural adjustment that will encourage ethical behavior. We need to look at countries like Japan for inspiration.
Your ellipses and comma splices make it hard to take you seriously.
Trumpeter,
I think you may have missed my above response to Donovan's similar response, the point of which was to answer your second rhetorical question with a resounding "I really don't think we do know". I think Japan and Germany are probably the best data points on what happens when post-modern governments completely collapse, but it's already a very different world than it was those few decades ago, they were in different positions that the USA is, and they took quite different trajectories. It's notable though, that neither fell into the kind of Hobbisan state of nature that people had long predicted would happen. Again, I am largely committed a largely pragmatic, instrumentalist, approach for the movement where we'll seek a long succession of small, clear, limitations and improvements on the system we have. Also again, I think there are many unanswered worries about the places this sort of direction will take us.
I really want to bring up Cuba here to speak about the positive possibilities of more dramatic change, but this is always a nearly impossible task. The Cubans have been at the brunt of such a massive disinformation campaign that bringing them up has the conversational usefulness of bringing up Nazis as an opposite sort of example. Also, their environment (cultural and geographical) is incredibly different from ours.
Maybe a better way to say what I want to say is just that while we get caught up in lots of (of course, useful) pragmatism of the moment, I want to preserve some space for utopian thinking that attempts both lightheartedness and seriousness.
I apologize for your experience of my grammar, as well as my own grammatical attack which you're right to be implicitly negating. I have this sense that typing "tone", if you will, is quite important, and that one must sometimes break with the MLA to add a useful quietness and tentativeness to online discussions. As for my attack, I meant to translate to the internet my worldly experience that it's useful to remind people of the aggression and aggressive effects in their diction. It would have been better done as its own linked article than as an aside attack, but I don't know that I, with my frustrating long-windedness, am the person to write such an article. Maybe we can just find one already written somewhere.
We dont need a totally new group of people. We need progressives to put in trade tariffs, tax the rich higher, reform the tax code, invest in education, update education, a new GI bill, heavy government investment in energy research, infrastructure upgrades, high speed rail, broadband internet upgrade, heavy renovation investment in upgrading downtowns through middle america including adult learning centers, downsize the military, etc You know... easy shit like this.
Donovan,
Of course these things are the things I want and you want, and we're working for them.
My point was a bit more abstract, an indication that pragmatism aside, I can't relate to talk about the horribleness of having rebuild things. I'm not a cultural relativist; it just seems to me that the most valuable parts of the culture would have more resiliency in its downfall.
I concede the tragic possibility of a dark age, but I offset the negative of this possibility in my mind with excitement about a space for something quite interesting.
I'm sure our tech/ed - topia will have creative space too, but I also have this sense that it's going to be hard to avoid everyone truing into maladjusted emotion addicts, cyborgs, living out their lives on the virtual reality internet, etc. etc.
We are getting real. That's why we're here.
agreed. but not "here" on the internet but present in the world staking our claim in our own future.
Taking it to the Streets!!
What a Fool Believes!!!!
right on
right on! problems solved!
Well put rmmo.
This Movement is wonderful, and to have true influence it will need to pick a specific problem that can be fixed via legislation. U.S. history shows that this strategy is successful -- look at how the Anti-Saloon League was in forcing the 18th Amendment for Prohibition http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temperance_movement#Anti-Saloon_League -- they had one issue that would effect a whole host of problems, and they hammered on Congress mercilessly with their collective voting power until they got their way.
I suggest that the Movement's General Assembly discuss focusing on putting back in place the regulations that once separated the interests of Congress and Wall St. -- and make them even stronger (see the great explanation of rmmo in the post I'm responding to). It's an issue that is the source of most of the conditions we are protesting today, and it can be fixed with legislation, which can be pressured into being written with our votes.
Thanks. All of the discussion here is great.
The #ows is not a political movement. They make no demands. They have made Declartions. Kieth Oberman read the declartions of the occupation of New York on his Current TV show 8 pm wed.nite. Oct 5,2011.
I have to agree with miles 176, the movement should pick a specific problem or problems that can be fixed with legislation.
agreed
That takes a thought process and clear concise idea. The first change is to remove the current administration and get one in that works.
Thats the kind of thinking that leads to frustration. You can't keep trying the same thing and hoping it will achieve the aims you want. The system is owned by money. Your vote is irrelevant in the face of money's corrosive influence on the workings of government.
You have to shake it up, threaten the status quo, to have any voice in our system now.
Just hoping that you as an independent yet informed voter can do anything about it - absurd.
Exactly. It's way too late to try working within the system, as is. Money changes everything and no man is immune to it. Look how fast Obama whored himself. There's no sense doing anything until you take all money out of campaign funding or put contributions at an amount that is within reach of everyone, eliminate lobbying, eliminate tax breaks and loopholes for the rich and corporations. Anything that gives anybody an excuse to buy politicians. If you don't start with that, why leave the house? I mean, hell, I'd sell anybody out for the right price. And there are very few men or women who could tell me they wouldn't that I'd believe.
How might a democratic nation "remove" its current administration, without an immediate replacement? Boycotting elections would likely give more power to those candidates relying on the upper class. On another note, I'm hopeful these protesters aren't stilled by a particular political candidate based on some professionally written and emotionally-charged speech about change. It must be on its third or fourth draft by now..
not the administration, because Obama will be the most viable and with public support will be the guy we all want him to be. We need progressives in EVERY district. Grassroots baby. From the ground up, get every under 30 year old signed up and doing early ballots. We need the youth. If we get majorities, and progressive majorities, we will reshape America SO FAST!! But we have to keep on them.
Obama is Goldman Sachs' bitch. WAKE UP. Stop this false left/right paradigm and leave the plantation.
Agreed. I knew not to elect Obama when I saw his cabinet. He's everything I thought he would be - an unmitigated disaster as the "left" went to sleep. Now he assassinates american citizens rather than give them their due process. He'll never get that blood off his hands. He lost his chance to be in front of a movement like this.
Actually we need communists in every district for the election. Hugo Chavez for president!
I believe President Obama is one of the answers to our problems. He had to struggle as a youth and is presently fighting for the "middle class", seniors, and the poor. We need to pick out about 3 of our biggest problems and ask him to look them over and respond. Eric Canter called us a "mob" on tv yesterday. We need to stick together and be peaceful.
I am dismayed that you believe the president is working for the middle class. He has 40 thousand dollar a plate fundraisers. NOTHING middle class about that. Politicians repay their funding, If you think he will bite the pocketbooks that elect him, you are foolish.
40,000 a dollar plate fundraisers so he have a chance against corporate donations from Crossroads GPS and Americans for Prosperity.
All I want Obama to be is out of the White House.
youtube zeitgeist: addendum for everyone to see. It will explain much of why this is happening in our lives and in the lives of people around the world.
you're clearly an uniformed uneducated liberal. why regulate hedge funds? wealthy people and institutions, which are defined as sophisticated investors, put there money in hedge funds. what do you care (and why shoudl society care) if these investors lose any money? theyre all big boys (and girls) so back off. hedge funds were not a problem in 2008, even though many lost money this had zero to do with the contagion and systemic problems
If you understood unregulated Capitalism, you would understand how they collude to manipulate markets. Don't think that Hedge funds have anything to do this is world economic mess? You are completely wrong -- hedge funds have caused it by colluding to attack sovereign nations.
The unregulated hedge funds met in New York and colluded to make money by vulture attacks on sovereign nations and they picked Greece because it was the highest leveraged. They all simultaneously placed massive bets against Greece which caused a cascading of events.
First, it caused investors to en masse pull out of Greece for fears that they would lose money. The shear size of these massive hedge funds manipulating markets scares off investors. So, the loss of the investors caused the devaluing of the Greek government bonds and the loss of vast government income taxes on the investments. So, Greece which was already leveraged has trouble stabilizing its banks and economy.
The hedge funds continue their attacks and leveraged Greece cannot withstand them so France and Germany have to come to the rescue to take on Greek debt. The the Hedge funds go after the next series over leveraged nations: Ireland, Spain, Portugal, and Italy doing the same to all and making France and Germany take on more foreign debt.
Then the hedge funds bet against the Euro and place an $8 billion bet that the Euro will fail because through their attacks, France and Germany can only take on so much foreign debt until they can longer remain stable, thus causing the collapse of the European unions and ungodly amounts of money for the hedge funds that manipulated this crisis. Don't believe me? The hedge funds don't deny this, but merely reply that it is those country's own fault for taking on a lot of debt and leaving themselves open to vulture attacks like theirs. Read for yourself:
http://in.reuters.com/article/2010/02/26/markets-euro-hedfunds-idINN2515219020100226 http://www.globalization101.org/news1/Goldman_Sachs_Greece http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2010/02/26/big-hedge-funds-said-to-bet-against-euro/ http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-05-18/germany-to-start-temporary-ban-on-naked-short-selling-of-euro-bonds-banks.html http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aj9Qo2YqmFKs http://www.economist.com/node/16322566 http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/soros-hedge-fund-bets-on-demise-of-the-euro-1914356.html
wow, youre such an idiot i dont know where to begin. i worked for hedge funds for 10 years and all that you say is such silly rubbish. greece's problems stem from too much debt. period. the market, which includes hedge funds, merely find price discovery and in the case of Greece their bond yileds are through the roof because they're insolvent (not just illiquid). blaming markets for proper price discovery is like blaming the weatherman when it rains. get educated before you try to talk to these topics.
I am educated and it seems, far more than you. Yes, Greece had a lot of debt, but it was the hedge fund bets that caused the cascading of events that led to the crisis.
It is the hedge fund bets that caused the investors to leave, that caused the bonds to fall, and that caused the loss of tax revenues. They used vulture tactics to do this.
I know that you hedge fund people try to get yourselves to sleep at night by just saying it was the country's fault for being too much in debt, but you know the real ethics and morality of this and you know that Greece would not have been in this crisis had the hedge funds not colluded to attack them.
Do you deny this?
wrong wrong wrong. you are clueless. Greece's debt as a percent of its GDP, approaching 180%, is among the highest in the world. its annual deficit is approaching 9%, and with an economy that's contracting by at least 5% per year their ability to pay deteriorates with each passing budget and weak quarterley GDP performance. And the system for collecting taxes is a chronic underachiever as most there have learned how to avoid paying. The Greek balance sheet is bloated with debt they can pay. the markets see that so price the existing bonds accordingly, which means a harsh haircut for maybe 60 cents on the dollar, which is where it will all likely shake out once the EU agrees to the size of the haircut on Greece bonds. These are the facts. Again blaming markets for proper price discovery is like blaming the weatherman when it rains. get educated before you try to talk to these topics.
Answer me this, would Greece have collapsed had the hedge funds not attacked it?
yes. absolutely
Do you really think that hedge funds are doing the world a service? Collapsing the entire world economy?
Yes, you hedge fund managers will make billions or trillions off of it, but what about the rest of us? Yes, what you call a service and "price discovery" is destroying the world.
if investors didn't give their money to hedge funds to manage then there wouldn't be a hedge fund industry. keep in mind hedge funds by definition arent open to the public or retail investors.
please provide one piece of evidence that hedge funds have done anything wrong or 'destroyed the world"? (except madoff, who was a criminal and hurt his investors, but he's a thief, one bad apple)
Do you deny that they are colluding to bring down the Euro and European union? See some sources below.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-02-21/-next-greece-search-is-on-as-hedge-funds-circle-william-pesek.html http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,675196,00.html
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-07-07/hedge-funds-move-past-greece-with-bets-that-sovereign-debt-crisis-expands.html
http://www.zerohedge.com/article/first-greece-now-spain-moore-capital-brevan-howard-paulson-well-jpm-and-goldman-implicated-s
http://seekingalpha.com/article/206376-hedge-funds-and-the-euro-crisis
http://www.economonitor.com/blog/2008/10/the-role-of-hedge-funds-in-financial-crisis/
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=agj7D9vZDDvE
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/banksandfinance/8037870/The-vulture-funds-are-circling-Ireland.html
fascinating the way the ignorant mind works. what do you see when you look at, say, the first article above? it says "that hedge funds are circling". you read that and see conspiracy? you have no understanding how the laws of supply and demand, value, price discovery work do you? if your house is worth $1 million and 100 hedge funds say its worth only $100,000, then does the value fall to $100,000? of course not. its worth what its worth, doenst matter how many people push on the price, its worth what the market will bear. same thing is true for government debt. if hedge funds (or any investor) are first to see something as overvalued and bet against it, the market will find the true intrinsic value eventually. but if the hedge fund is wrong they will no doubt be losers in their bet. the thing folks like you dont understand is that hedge funds seek out or discover mis-priced situations in the market. they dont (cant) create them.
You attack him personally. And he gives references. Unlike you, I'm pretty sure I'll believe the guy using proper resources.
please send my response above to all your liberal socialist save-the-world numbnut friends
You well know, or should know, that markets can and are manipulated. And you well know that hedge funds "finding the intrinsic value" have their hands in every destabilizing event that has happened in Europe. And you know that some hedge funds have so much money that simply entering and exiting a market can manipulate it. You are not going to change my mind and I'm not going to change yours.
I love how you people all dismiss everyone as liberal socialists. I used to hold office in the Republican party. It is not just the liberal socialists who think that there is something wrong with Wall Street and America. We understand more than you think and are waking up to the corporate and wall street propaganda machines.
Wall street doesn't want Capitalism. It wants to make risky bets, buy "insurance policies" on the bets, and make the taxpayers pay out 100% on those insurance policies. That is your "Capitalism." Don't regulate us and make the taxpayers pay for your folly.
You don't want or have Capitalism, you have wall street and corporate socialism. You are the Socialist. If you want Capitalism, then fail when you place bad bets, don't make us bail you out.
i understand your conviction to your beliefs. i wouldn't try to convince you with the facts. by the way, give me one example where taxpayers have paid for wall street's folly.
Bailing out AIG and paying 100% on the dollar on the derivatives sold by AIG to wall street.
AIG is an insurance company. true they did business with wall street. but thye are not wall street
so thats it? thats your one example? weak.
Weak huh? Easy to say when it is is our $84 billion dollars (or more) that bailed you out.
Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke argued: "If a federal agency had [appropriate authority] on September 16, [2008], they could have been used to put AIG into conservatorship or receivership, unwind it slowly, protect policyholders, and impose haircuts on creditors and counterparties as appropriate. That outcome would have been far preferable to the situation we find ourselves in now."[59] The "situation" to which he is referring is that the claims of bondholders and counterparties were paid at 100 cents on the dollar by taxpayers, without giving taxpayers the rights to the future profits of these institutions. In other words, the benefits went to the banks while the taxpayers suffered the costs.
Settlement of credit default swaps On October 22, 2008, those creditors of Lehman Brothers who bought credit default swaps to hedge them against Lehman bankruptcy settled those accounts. The net payments were $5.2 billion[67] even though initial estimates of the amount of the settlement were between $100 billion and $400 billion.[68]
By December 2008, AIG had paid at least $18.7 billion to various financial institutions, including Goldman Sachs and Société Générale to retire obligations related to credit default swaps (CDS). As much as $53.5 billion related to swap payouts are part of the bailout.[69] On March 15, 2009, under mounting pressure from Congress and after consultation with the Federal Reserve, AIG disclosed a list of major recipients of collateral postings and payments under credit default swaps, guaranteed investment agreements, and securities lending agreements.[70] Below is data from one of the charts AIG released, representing only a portion of the total payouts, over a period of a few months.
AIG collateral postings to credit default swap counterparties, from the period September 16, 2008 to December 31, 2008[71] Counterparty US $ posted Counterparty US $ posted Société Générale $4,100,000,000 Deutsche Bank $2,600,000,000 Goldman Sachs $2,500,000,000 Merrill Lynch $1,800,000,000 Calyon $1,100,000,000 Barclays $900,000,000 UBS $800,000,000 DZ Bank $700,000,000 Wachovia $700,000,000 Rabobank $500,000,000 KFW $500,000,000 JPMorgan $400,000,000 Banco Santander $300,000,000 Danske Bank $200,000,000 Reconstruction Finance Corporation $200,000,000 HSBC Bank $200,000,000 Morgan Stanley $200,000,000 Bank of America $200,000,000 Bank of Montreal $200,000,000 Royal Bank of Scotland $200,000,000 Other (unknown) $4,100,000,000
your cut and paste skills are impressive. but youre still an idiot. AIG is NOT A WALL STREET FIRM. if your thesis is that you the tax payer bailed out wall street why are you talking about AIG?? idiot.
You obviously cannot read: who got the pay outs? Merrill Lynch, JP Morgan, Goldman Sachs and so on. They are Wall Street.
simply increasing wages is fuel for inflation. it sounds good, but it works terribly. Dont be fooled into the party vs party politics. Both side have profited and held office and appointments for far too long. We have legacy senators and representatives and presidents now, is this a monarchy? From all the brilliance in this country, we can only find certain families to represent us? Incredible. Our government officials, do the same thing as the corporations. When a public servant earns $100,000 per year, why are the taxpayers still paying for their healthcare? The greed is everywhere. At least businesses engage in trade for our money, Government simply confiscates it. Redistribution is a fraud. Who will decide what direction the distribution flows. The only answer to our problems is to shrink the government, and increase the number of wealthy in the private sector. You and I should be free to earn as much as we can. I have more faith that YOU will do better deeds with money than our government.
Here is what has happened without paying the middle class wages: THE RATIO OF AVERAGE CEO COMPENSATION AND WORKER PAY IN THE US 1965-2005 2005 - 262:1 (Av. CEO-$10,982,000/Av. Worker- $41,861) 2004 - 238:1 2003 - 181:1 2002 - 143:1 2000 - 300:1 1989 - 71:1 1978 - 35:1 1965 - 24:1 Source: Mercer Survey of 350 large industrial and service firms conducted for the Wall Street Journal as reported by Mishel, Bernstein, Allegretto
The age old problem is that the decisions as to who makes what in our country are in the hands of the few at the top. The executives decide what you and I will make and when there is no disincentive to paying out all of the profit pie at the top, people are greedy and pay it all out at the top. This is why middle class salaries have stagnated for 30 years while executive salaries have ballooned up 256%.
This is why executive now make over 250% more than their workers while in the 1950's it was only 16% more than their workers. When there is no tax disincentive or unions, what always happens is that the middle class wealth is redistributed to the few making the wealth decisions at the top. Look at the numbers yourself, both parties have sold us out and replaced middle class wages with loans and easy credit.
Now the top 10% control over 70% of all of the nation's wealth and the bottom 50% control less than 2% of our entire nation's wealth. It is not because we have not earned it and the wealthy deserve outrageous salaries, it is because the few at the top make the decisions and were able to get away with it because they made us feel wealthy by giving us easy loans instead of wages.
In advance, please excuse me for my english if not correct. I think rmmo has well summarized the situation and given good propositions. Here in Europe, as in the US, we suffer the same lack of choice than you, because governments and EU deciders are far too dependant from big corporations and money makers. Europe is in agony, and many countries are at risk to fall back into autocracy/dictature/oppression. So we activists, free thinkers, idealists, people from Europe look at your movement with attention. Just because you are at the core of the system, it's from there that everything begins. We are counting on you. We support you.
We won't be able to solve your problems. What is happening to America's citizens and the citizens of various countries in Europe happens in parallel, but in different cultures with different politics, etc.... We each have to solve these problems for ourselves. We offer each other solidarity and support when possible, and we can share ideas strategies etc... But I suspect that each area will have to solve each set of problems a little differently than every other.
You're right. But something that you must remember is that after World War II, Europe became dependent on US economy because of the Marshall plan. We're talking here of the end of US supremacy over world's economy. Soon China will try to overcome it. China olds the best part of US debt. Naturally they will try to force a new monetary system based on Yuan. How do you think you'll resist to that ?
China is still dependent upon the US consumer. They will prop up the US economy as best they can until they have spread their risk more widely by opening up markets throughout the entire world.
I think China forcing a new monetary system is unlikely. More likely is a natural evolution of the BRIC nations increasing in influence throughout the world, and the US remaining a major player but declining from absolute supremacy.
That of course is all dependent upon the status quo staying the same. But we've got a number of things that could throw all predictions off course. (1) I think the 99% movement in the US could be significant and reshape the United States. (2) I think China is running into severe problems and that its economic dominance is overstated. They've overbuilt which has made their economy look bigger than it is. The Chinese gov't can not do this forever.
But all that is besides the main point. The debt machine of the 1% is exploiting first world nations after these financial interests (in the guise of the IMF and World Bank) were kicked out of many third world nations. Thats what all this austerity non-sense is about. We must resist that, and then continue the fight to reclaim a stake in our society.
I agree that China will probably have to face big problems, such as internal resistance and people rising against unfair distribution of wealth. But the main problem that developing countries will have to face are: struggle for primary resources (mainly food and water). In this battle, who's gonna win ? The problem is not of staying at the top. The problem is: what way should we follow in order to all survive ? We're not fighting for us. We are fighting for our children. In China, they maybe more aware if this problem than we are.
Who is saying anything about winning? I was merely laying out what my understanding is about China's economy and monetary policy.
Anyway, all of the concerns we have at this point in history are critical (environment, energy, resources, food production, education etc...) BUT there's a major road block before us in addressing these issues: the 1%. The wealth of the 1% depends on teh status quo. The 1% depend on teh US Military industrial complex, privatized national banks, oil based energy production, agribusiness controlled agriculture, etc.... They do not want to address the future because their wealth and power (their ability to not work while enjoying extravegant lifestyles) requires that the status quo change dramatically and quickly. The 1% will lose power, and much of their wealth. We need to unleash the 99% to work on making a new world. That can't happen unless decision making is much more inclusive - considering the needs of the 100%.
Totally agree on that point.
Just noticed a really bad mistake in what I wrote. I meant to say that the 1% are resistant to change because they are reliant upon the status quo for their wealth and power. And that is why the largest corporations are resistant to innovation as well as social change.
And that is exactly the weak point, and why they will be defeated.
Thank you
You Americans and we Europeans are in the same boat. You invited us 50 years ago to the trip. And when we hit the iceberg, we're all gonna sink together !
Holy shit that was an amazing summary. I wish I could've said it that way. Truly, as a writer myself, this is a wonderful experience.
Change the incorporation laws so that duties to society and workers are included. Now the only legal duty is to shareholder profits. Some states have instituted model laws that make this change, and I'd like to see it in all 50. Then, of course, we'd have to find a way to pressure companies to use the new laws, not just Delaware, as they prefer to race to the bottom.
Good thoughts there. I agree.
Go ahead, and implement that in some states. Go ahead. And we will see which states move ahead. Change the incorporation laws to include duties to society? What? What does that even mean? It means nothing. Get a life.
Maybe cmt means that we need to change the way we value products and services created domestically and otherwise; that we must reach a medium where meaningful productivity, or the contribution of innovative, beneficial, inspiring, respectable, predictable, or insert the most common adjective used to describe those businesses you respect most here businesses in society are given real power in the marketplace. It's all about incentives. Due to conflicts of interest, none of this power may extend beyond the free marketplace as it has now.
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/186357-business-groups-blast-proposed-surtax
Nope. It's the billionaire unions!
Nice try, unions only represent less than 12% of all jobs in the U.S. today and a large chunk of the remaining union jobs are in the public sector (government). Corporate billionaire propaganda wants you to believe that the problem is the unions because they have been trying to destroy unions for 70 years.
The age old problem is that wage decisions are in the hands of the few at the top of corporations and when there is no disincentive to pay out all of the profits at the top, greed reigns. If unions are so powerful, why have executive salaries ballooned 256% since 1980 and middle class salaries have stagnated since 1980. Why have healthcare companies had a decade of record profits while we pay more and more for premiums for little coverage? Why have corporations pushed retirement and healthcare costs onto their workers in the last 30 years and have had years of profits and are flush with cash?
It is not because unions are billionaires, it is because the are so few unions left in the private sector, I think maybe only 7% of private sector jobs are unionized today. The funny thing is that wages have been better in unionized jobs like the public sector jobs that are unionized and instead of people realizing the real problem the propaganda machine has people vilifying the private sector workers as fat cats.
The people who should be vilified are the executives that have redistributed middle class wealth all to themselves at the expense of the middle class.
You are so uninformed. First, check your facts, wow, really off target. Second, if the highest marginal rate is 90%, do you think this provides an incentive or a disincentive to people working hard and striving to produce? Think about it. Such high marginal rates absolutely choke off the incentive to produce and grow. Always has. Let me ask you: If you designed a new widget and worked your tail off to design, market, produce.....taking huge risk, working diligently.....and then if you succeed and make a $5 million profit, while creating scores of new jobs for people......would you see it as best that you are rewarded with keeping say 70% of what YOU earned (and use such earnings to invest, spend, create additional economic activity), or, would you think it best that you keep only 10% of what you earned, giving the rest to the government hoping that they will spend the fruits of YOUR labor wisely, while you see nearly nothing, and then have to lay off much of your staff as a result. Which option is more equitable? Which option is likely to produce more economic growth and more innovation ? Think about it.
My facts are not wrong. Did executives and business people refuse to work in the 1950's because the highest marginal tax rate was 90%? Was there a huge work disincentive in the 1970's when the highest marginal tax rate was 70%? No, it created a strong middle class.
Do you want to live in a country where all of the wealth is concentrated at the top in the hands of the few or do you want a strong middle class?
Studies show that not only has income inequality become the highest it has been since the great depression, but also has class mobility. It is harder now than in more than a half of a century to move up the ladder. Income mobility in the US is now just a myth. American laborers are working harder and longer hours than ever and have seen no increase in wages in over 30 years. American productivity is at an all time high. So just keep getting fooled into believing that you will be part of that top 1% who has seen all of the rewards.
Was there no creativity or innovation in America in the 1950's-1970's? We built strong companies then and invested in our futures and our workers and in our people.
Since 1980, we have only created false wealth with easy credit and created a debtor middle class.
You are so right. You can thank reagonomcis for this slow decline of the American middle-class.Many folks got fooled by the yuppies...look at what that system has done to the middle-class today! If another straw is laid on our backs it will break.We The People wont have it. When the current system no longer sustains the people it must be eradicated and replaced. The books must be Wiped Clean!
check the tax code of those times, and the government expenditures. Deductions for everything, It is why companies threw big parties and paid for all the drinks and trips, and boats, and benefits, and retirements, etc. Cabins at the lake were a tax deduction. It is only when our government became greedy, and wanted more from the working class of the country, that business was forced to micromanage, and trim the fat. The fat was a deduction, so business was more generous, and employees were more prosperous.
In the 60's, we went to the moon. We used "big government" to do that. RMMO is 100% right.
Mmo. Won't argue your points, I don't think it would change things, I believe in Self Reliance, Hard Work, Small Government, Personal Freedom. Generally a Libertarian. Believing as I do in personal freedom, I must respect the views of those that believe in a system of a more Socialist nature. I don't believe that such systems work well, however, I respect that others believe they do. I work extremely hard, and have been fortunate enough to have done well through this work. I pay taxes at approx 33% weighted average and donate about 15% of earnings to charitable causes. I have created scores of well paying jobs for others and feel that this sort of e onomic system works best. Not perfect, but, in my view, better than Socialism. I may be wrong.
Here has what 30 and more years of tax cuts for the wealthy and the demise of unions have gotten us: THE RATIO OF AVERAGE CEO COMPENSATION AND WORKER PAY IN THE US 1965-2005 2005 - 262:1 (Av. CEO-$10,982,000/Av. Worker- $41,861) 2004 - 238:1 2003 - 181:1 2002 - 143:1 2000 - 300:1 1989 - 71:1 1978 - 35:1 1965 - 24:1 Source: Mercer Survey of 350 large industrial and service firms conducted for the Wall Street Journal as reported by Mishel, Bernstein, Allegretto
Socialism does work well. What was shown with the fall of the USSR was that centrally planned and controlled economies have some inherent inefficiencies.
With concentration of wealth at the top however... capitalism suffers the same problems. Decision making is concentrated in the wrong place at the top rather than in many individual markets.. The beauty of the market is that decision making is distributed throughout the system.
If you believe in freedom, you should be for equitable distribution of wealth. Its also better for the economy.
You do not understand capitalism. Decision making is not concentrated at the top: Free market capitalism is a massive neural network of decision making that optimizes the distribution of resources. It's a giant equation that is solved by trillions of decisions per second.
Further, wealth is not "concentrated" at the top. Wealth is found in the vicinity of wealth creators. They did not drag it there from some other place, they MADE it. You can make NEW wealth - it is not a fixed pie
You have said nothing new to me despite your false assertion that I do not understand capitalism. I have outlined the benefits of markets elsewhere on this page. It is unfortunate however that you speak the dogma of the 1% rather than actually understand the benefits of markets, and the failure of neo-liberal economic policy - what you call "free market capitalism". Markets are inefficient without rules and objective third parties to enforce them.
Totalitarian control over resources does create a problem within markets. This is a danger in capitalism without regulation because the resources concentrate at the top, and decision making over what to do with these resources is concentrated. Totalitarian communism has the same problem yes, but the rise of oligarchs in systems like ours are just as much of a problem as are corporate bureaucracies that rely on their corruption of the state and use of state resources to remain competititve.
Wealth is only created by unleashing potential. Something that is more likely to result from a successful movement for economic justice, than the status quo in this country. The wealth you are talking about in our society arrived in the pockets of the wealthy through exploitation. I am sorry that you've been under a rock for the past forty years, but it is time to get out from under it and pay attention. The disastrous bubbles in our economy recently are a direct result of the type of economic "policy" that you seem to be pushing. And the most recent bubble destroyed wealth throughout the economy and concentrated most of what remained in a few financial entities.
The evidence has shown neo-liberal economic policy to be a failure. Meanwhile the nations that have got out from under the yoke of the financial interests that espouse this failed religion are doing quite well. The BRIC nations are doing fantastic while Europe and North America are forced to suffer austerity by the same players preying upon us that have been kicked out of Latin America. Time to wake up.
I disagree with your assertion that potential is unleashed by economic justice, unless, by justice, you mean that those who work hardest and have the best ideas become the wealthiest. Unfortunately, our government has decided to pick the winners and losers in our society, and has set up a sure failure of capitalism. By stacking the deck, they are then able to convince, otherwise intelligent people that capitalism is the flaw in our economy.
If you were one of the middle class workers at one of your competitors, your views would be different. You are the one with the sense of entitlement. You think monopolies are fine as long as they play nice. I think your cause already had their protest, it's called the tea party. You know the one, the one that hates regulation, likes letting people with no insurance die, likes executions and wants to lower the tax rate even more.
I think you are right. Those are all horrible things. I agree with you. Entitled? You are right again, no one is entitled to anything on this earth. I know I am not. I have worked hard since I was 12, got a few breaks and found financial success. Worked hard, but got lucky, many people work hard and it does not happen that way. I was just lucky that it did for me. I think the Tea Party group is scary, Zealots with a bad agenda. I tend to be very wary of any extreme dogma, be it right or left. My own view is that a smaller government with more personal freedoms is a better way to go. But we cannot have a lack of government, that would be a disaster. I would lobe to see a streamlined government with wasted expenditure cut out (I believe that our current system wastes so much money on pork barrel projects, wars that are wrong, pet politician issues and so on). I would love to see us cut the billions (trillions?) of waste and then NOT cut taxes, but instead keep taxes static, or raise them moderately, but with government waste cut back, would like to see healthcare and education be provided for no cost to all citizens. I think the right to education and healthcare are basic to all and should be provided. I think we can do this if we dramatically change DC to be smaller and efficient, allowing citizens tax payments to provide these things. I just don't want to see ever larger government, with endless expenditures on bailouts, wars, "roads to nowhere" etc. I think smaller government, with effective business regulation (but not stifling), would allow for moderately higher taxes to then be used to provide for citizens health, education and safety needs (at no cost to citizens). For my part, this sort of smaller effective system can allow for healthy capitalist growth, within a system that provides vital social services to all. I see useless wars, bloated government and wasteful spending as enemies to this.
There is nothing wrong with the real populist anger of the Tea Party people. Yes, the astroturf of the Koch Bros is heinous. But the Tea Party was a real movement before it was co-opted (around 2008). They are against the wars. Against corruption in government. I can stand with them on that.
Against taxes in general. No. But I'm not going to quibble. I do have issues with my tax dollars going towards things that most US citizens oppose or are otherwise made ignorant of (US foreign policy). But since there is common cause in the important things - distrust of too much concentrated power - I'd like to have those folks on our side.
The 99% movement is a movement of the 99%. Not of the left leaning 99%.
I just don't think that 1950's-1970's America was Socialist.
It doesn't really matter. We need to move forward. It isn't possible to reclaim the past even if we push back a more progressive tax code.
I think if these demonstrations are successfully, we will have a chance to have some say in what the future is. I'd rather have that then simply request a return to 1950-1970'2 us policy.
If you are going back to an older system then it's a 'regressive' tax code.
That is funny, but perhaps you should learn what the term actually means.
If you're using the fashionable term 'progressive' then it you that goes some lean in' to do. Progressive is going forward. Regressive is going backwards which is what you want 'n'est-ce pas'?
No. Look up regressive tax.
Use common sense.
It is unfortunate that you are ignorant of basic terms which are commonly used to describe taxes. it limits your ability to understand what others are discussing thus preventing you from expressing your own ideas meaningfully.
Now you're just being coy.
Actually, you DON'T have to "respect the views" of socialists any more than you have to respect the views of child rapists: Socialism is the belief that the mob has the right to the life, freedom and property of others, and is justified in taking it by force. It is an anti-freedom agenda, as you know, and must be castigated and resisted.
Here is what 30 years of tax cuts for the wealthy and the demise of unions has gotten us: THE RATIO OF AVERAGE CEO COMPENSATION AND WORKER PAY IN THE US 1965-2005 2005 - 262:1 (Av. CEO-$10,982,000/Av. Worker- $41,861) 2004 - 238:1 2003 - 181:1 2002 - 143:1 2000 - 300:1 1989 - 71:1 1978 - 35:1 1965 - 24:1 Source: Mercer Survey of 350 large industrial and service firms conducted for the Wall Street Journal as reported by Mishel, Bernstein, Allegretto
You don't think that the decisions are in the hands of the few at the top, well then why have executive salaries ballooned 256% in the last 30 years while middle class salaries have stagnated? Why has healthcare and retirement costs been pushed more and more on the shoulders of employees while their wages have stagnated and executive salaries have ballooned? Why is it that American worker productivity is at an all time high when at the same time wages have decreased?
1980's US law stated that corporate executives only have one duty and that is to maximize shareholder profits. Corporations no longer have any duty to their workers and no tax disincentives to paying all of the corporate profit out to the executives and shareholders.
I think that it is you that does not understand American Capitalism.
Socialism is the belief that the mob has the right to the life, freedom and property of others, and is justified in taking it by force. It is an anti-freedom agenda
Why is it that you do not see that the middle class spends their wealth on corporate goods and services and that wealth is being redistributed into the hands of the few. We have not seen income inequality like this since just before the great depression. You cannot continue to redistribute the wealth of the engine of the economy, the middle class, without at some point the engine stopping. They have kept the middle class engine going for 30 years with easy credit instead of wages allowing us to spend. What happened when the easy loans and credit dried up? The engine stopped. You either have to give the middle class a larger share of the profit pie to keep them spending or give them more credit.
Where do you get this notion that you can "give" people money? You have to TAKE it first, by force. That is utterly immoral.
People earn their money. The problem is the middle class has worked harder and harder and sees no additional fruits for their labor because there is an imbalance of power. There are no unions fighting for the employees to see the fruits of the additional labor and the executives keep all of the profits from the fruits of the employees' labor for themselves and the shareholders.
This is an age old problem -- this is why unions were created in the first place. Look at history -- the problem is that people have no concept of history and believe the propaganda that all unions are bad and think that they don't need them.
Then, they wake up one day and realize that they have been working harder and harder and see no additional benefit while the executives are taking in tens of millions of dollars and all of the middle class wealth has been redistributed in to the hands of the few.
THE RATIO OF AVERAGE CEO COMPENSATION AND WORKER PAY IN THE US 1965-2005 2005 - 262:1 (Av. CEO-$10,982,000/Av. Worker- $41,861) 2004 - 238:1 2003 - 181:1 2002 - 143:1 2000 - 300:1 1989 - 71:1 1978 - 35:1 1965 - 24:1 Source: Mercer Survey of 350 large industrial and service firms conducted for the Wall Street Journal as reported by Mishel, Bernstein, Allegretto
So what. I guess if you hate CEO's that might seem shocking, but I'm not inclined to be so chauvinistic that I paint them all with the same brush and say that none of them earned their success.
I don't hate CEO's, it is human nature to try to get away with whatever you can. When wage decisions are in the hands of the few at the top of companies and there is no disincentive against paying it all out at the top, they do. Who wouldn't pay themselves millions of dollars if they could get away with it? The problem is that when that happens all of the middle class spending/wealth that created that corporate profit is then redistributed into the hands of the few at the top.
Its data that shows the concentration of wealth. Thats why you should care.
Concentration of wealth in an economy like ours stiffles the economy because there is less money in the hands of people that spend it. An economy grows with the speed of circulation of capital. Concentration of wealth slows it down because the rich can't figure out how to spend money when they have everything.
Take a look at this link by the conservative heritage foundation. http://heritageinstitute.com/governance/compensation.htm
well, instead of buying a mansion, yacht, a baseball team and a line of high priced escort, that person can make 199,999 dollars, pay his employees more, put more money back into his business, cure a disease, and help people from starving, knowing that next year he will get another 199,999 deposited in his/her account
Look at countries like Denmark and Japan, their income levels are pretty even across the board and they have better healthcare systems, better educational programs, and less violence. Maybe these are some things you're not really interested in.
A high marginal tax rate encourages a corporation to reinvest in the corporation rather than hand it out as executive pay. The reason? Excess is taxed. Innovation is not.
Incorrect. And a bit naive, but I suspect that you have not run enlarge company and hence how could anyone expect you to have a food feel for this nThat would be unfair to you. I am the CEO of a mid sized company and can assure you that such high marginal tax rates do not do what you think, and are the antithesis of what creates growth and jobs. Every time you raise marginal rates, especially when you move toward or past 40%, you cede personal and economic freedom, and incentive, to "the government". The government then balloons ever larger, paid for by all taxpayers, yet producing nothing. Forcing capital from the private sector to the public sector in this way chokes growth. I pay my employees about 20% more than market average, and I insist on having a gold standard healthcare program for all of them. I have a strict Family first policy and value each employee like family. With increased government involvement, regulation and taxation, I will lose incentive to risk capital and time and would eventually have to shrink and lay off scores. A heartbreak for all. I do not think anyone should wish for this. Capitalism is NOT perfect, it has many warts, but I believe we are better served by working within the Capitalist system to make it the best it can be (never perfect, but the best it can be). The alternative of a large government Socialist system is a disaster. Please do not wish to cede your personal freedom, talent, worth and spirit to a group of government bureaucrats tinamous them to think for you. Be free, work hard, be self reliant. Larger goverent and higher taxes will not help anyone, unless one is happy to be a parasite living off of the work of others. I believe you are better than that.
Historical fact proves you wrong. And the proof is right in front of your eyes. Companies simply hold onto their cash rather than invest it. One of the reasons why the economy is stagnant. In the past with the higher tax rates there was more investment.
Be careful to generalize. I can feel how angry you are and I truly wish it were not so. But, not all companies are that way. Mine is not. We are small (700 employees) but growing. We do not hoard cash, we invest continuously in our business, hire new employees, and provide above market wages and benefits. Our annual employee benefits expense add on factor is 38%, a figure that is well above average, but worth it to me. I started at working as a caddy at age 12 and have never forgotten my roots and will always keep my employees interests in mind. With any significant tax increase, I will not be able to do this, and instead will send capital to Washington DC and they will use it as they wish. I would then shrink and have to lay off workers. Perhaps this is a good answer and DC will be a better steward of capital than I am. I think that the employees I would have to let go would disagree. I may be wrong but I don't think they would like to lose their jobs in order to provide more funding to the ubiquitous government. Just some food for thought for you, I do not have all the answers, that is for sure, but I can offer real world incite from a CEO for whatever it may be worth to you.
Angry? I'm simply stating facts that are supported by data. http://www.presimetrics.com/blog/?p=301 And the historical record since 1950 in the US.
I don't see how that makes me angry.
I also am not interested in your anecdotes about your business which I can not verify. You may well be speaking the truth and actually run a business of that size. But it doesn't matter. The data and historical record (as well as common sense) suggest that the best policy is to increase the marginal tax rate. It will enable the federal government to invest more. And it will make it more worth while for business owners to invest in their business than to hold on to cash.
What should the percentage be? I don't know. But it is very clear that the marginal tax rate has gotten much to low.
Ok. I respect your view. It is different than mine, but, mine is formed from my own experiences, just like all people are formed by theirs. I think I have been lucky that my hard work paid off to be able to find financial success. I worked hard, but so do countless others who have not had the same result. So, I have been fortunate and now my views are shaped by where I am. Had things worked differently, I do acknowledge that my views would be different. I can say this with certainty though, not all CEO's are the same, and not all are heartless and greedy. Some are, some are not. There are variations in type among CEO's the same as is the case for all people. While I disagree with your economic solution, I certainly do not know that my view is any better, and I respect your view. I will only continue to work as well as I can and try to be the best I can be for my company and employees. I may be very wrong in the way I see things, but if I can make the company prosper and grow and create economic success for all of my employees, and treat them as humans first, way before as an employee, I hope that this is a good thing. If your economic view is best, then I hope we all adopt them and we all prosper. Peace to all.
Of course. I'm glad we can come to a place of respect.
However, its not about whether ceo's are good or bad. Its about what is the best public policy. None of this is about my own personal experience. Its about how I see the sweep of history, the economy, US policy etc....
Look at it this way. Markets need structure to function efficiently. You need laws, currency, objective third parties to ensure that everyone plays fairly. I rely on the rules and enforcement of such. To rely on the players of the game to police themselves doesn't work. I'm not a fan of economic anarchy its not as efficient as a well regulated market economy.
Amen to that. Agree. Cheers.
I must admit that you have an infuriating mix of self righteousness and ignorance that is hard to get one's head around . . . Your blithe statements like "the best policy is to increase the marginal tax rate" so as to "enable the federal government to invest more" shows that you are an elitist - an arrogant believer in your's and your other pseudointellectual friends to control the rest of us for our own good. YOU aaronparr are the 1% that the rest are railing about. It is YOU and your statist leaders that have to go if there is to be any "economic justice" in this country!
I am sorry that you feel that way, but I am not your therapist.
You're not my master either. So drop the world domination thing before you get yourself into trouble, adolf
Is this the best you can do? Straw men arguments etc.... You do realize that this movement isn't happening on the internet right? If you want to influence I suggest joining a GA and discussing these matters there.
You may find your public speaking skills improved hwoever if you first seek therapy, or at least talk about your problems with someone close to you. I am tired of listening to them, and will do so no further. Seek help from those near you. Seek to influence those near you. You will do no good here since you can not form a cogent argument. This is a place of ideas.
Actually, companies hold onto cash for the same reasons individuals do. When the economic climate is uncertain they hoard cash to mitigate risk. That is, if you are worried that sales are going to take a major hit because the economy stinks, and you know you have to make payroll and pay rent throughout the storm you sock away some money. However, in a healthy economic climate companies would be foolish and punished by shareholders for limiting their growth by sitting on a pile of cash. Instead they would be HEAVILY motivated to pay it out in dividends or grow the company.
To assume a company hoards cash out of some sense of vitriol for the country is silly. It assumes that the executives of those companies are making decisions contrary to their own interests just to stick it to the rest of us. That fails the common sense test.
Comparing a corporation's motivations to that of an individual is a specious argument and insupportable. It may be true for a small business, a sole proprietorship etc... but does not cover what matters - corporations and excessive executive pay. We are after all having this discussion in a site protesting against the power and wealth concentrated in the hands of the 1% yes? Please consider context and avoid straw men. I never claimed that a company holds money out of anger. That is your assertion.
Higher marginal tax rates discourage large bonuses, and excessive executive pay, because it is not attractive to make all that extra money. Instead other uses are found for the money within the business so as to reduce the amount paid in taxes.
I believe the question posed is this: Why would a corporation spend all of its cash on executives unless they are doing for the betterment of its business? For a Fortune 500 company surely does not maintain success by squandering profits..
In a competitive market, there is a constant and ever-evolving incentive to grow in order to compete with the next-best in your industry. In socialism, the incentive to grow a business is via regulation. just making sure we're on the same page You believe that certain corporations have become so successful that they transcend all laws of competition; that they have essentially beat the system and now freely do whatever they what regardless of outcome (or income). I agree with you on this, however, this is because our regulatory systems have become so focused on the bureaucracy of lobbying that our laws regarding business practices are unable to evolve with the constant changes occurring within markets both new and old. Technology has played a huge part in allowing the power of the American dream to trump the power of American liberty, and as virtual financial markets are now capable of shifting infinite amounts of cash across infinite distances at an increasingly blinding pace, it's almost forgivable that our aging politicians appear so hopeless in these times of need.
Assuming you've studied Moore's Law, you know that innovation is more important now than ever in order to compete with other world powers. Assuming that a socialist regime may succeed in stabilizing our nation's economy over 5? years time, how could we possibly expect to bring the U.S. back to any sort of power once we're years behind in technological development and no longer have any advantage in the global marketplace?
Self-interest. The corporation does not decide to hand out the money. The people receiving the money do. With a higher marginal tax rate it is much less beneficial to do this.
If it's that simple, why wouldn't you expect the marginal tax to encourage handing out even more, compensating for those dollars taxed?
Regardless of the logic of it... its how it has worked. Look at the historical record, look at the data. Its freely available. I linked to a study elsewhere here.
But yes it also makes sense. If you are just going to lose most of that compensation to taxes, its not particularly appealing to give yourself a bonus. Plus you will look a whole lot better if you manage to spend the money wisely in the business and you also benefit financially by increasing its worth - and reduce the amount paid in taxes.
Evidence is what matters. The chicago school never had it. Thats the problem with relying on thought experiments rather than evidence.
Well, we had growth and innovation in the 1950's. China has it now. I'm voting for the 1950's when we were still the undisputed greatest nation in the free world.
So are you suggesting the US create innovation like China does? I would have to think there is a tad more repression of workers and civil rights in that country. Maybe the innovations in the 1950's was a direct result of students wanting to learn, understanding the value of hard work, and were not coddled by their parents into believing they deserve to be given everything instead of having to earn it. Welcome to capitalism.
And would it suprise you to learn that many U.S. companies do business with entities that repress workers in China? Why do you think they keep moving jobs overseas? Because the remaining protections the American worker has left have not yet been taken away. God willing they never will be, but not if you have your way.
You want the Chinese model, not me.
I never said we should be following China, we have done enough of that for the last ten years or more. And no, the innovations were the direct result of hard work and government investment. The interstate highway system, the space program, our military are the three I can think of off the top of my head. No one believes they deserve to be given anything. They believe that our country is great enough for everyone to have an equal opportunity in life.
"all of the wealth has been paid out at the top to corporate executives." What a stupid statement. That is so obviously not true. But you made that statement that is so obviously not true, so that taints everything else you say. Good work, you saved me from reading through the rest of your tripe. Next time, try not to lie in the first paragraph.
The proof is in the facts: THE RATIO OF AVERAGE CEO COMPENSATION AND WORKER PAY IN THE US 1965-2005 2005 - 262:1 (Av. CEO-$10,982,000/Av. Worker- $41,861) 2004 - 238:1 2003 - 181:1 2002 - 143:1 2000 - 300:1 1989 - 71:1 1978 - 35:1 1965 - 24:1 Source: Mercer Survey of 350 large industrial and service firms conducted for the Wall Street Journal as reported by Mishel, Bernstein, Allegretto
Those numbers are true, but they have NOTHING to do with the bad economy. CEO comp is a separate issue. If you take all the CEO comp and put it in a pile, it is tiny withing the entire economy.
That makes no sense. The top 10% of earners (mostly executives) now control 70% of our entire nation's wealth! The bottom 50% only control 2% of our entire nation's wealth.
The top 10% of earners are mostly executives? Prove it. You can't. Why say that when it's not true?
The top 10% are mostly executives (not just the CEO: the COO, CFO, and the many other executives at the top of a company) and wall street ( hedge fund managers and the rest of wall street). The problem is that Bush lowered the tax on wall street earnings to a meager 12% from 39%. The tax on wall street earnings has steadily dropped for 50 years and has allowed there to be billionaires who only pay 12% on their earnings while I pay 36%.
http://www.businessinsider.com/15-charts-about-wealth-and-inequality-in-america-2010-4#the-gap-between-the-top-1-and-everyone-else-hasnt-been-this-bad-since-the-roaring-twenties-1
http://www.businessinsider.com/15-charts-about-wealth-and-inequality-in-america-2010-4#the-last-two-decades-were-greatif-you-were-a-ceo-or-owner-not-if-you-were-anyone-else-5
THE RATIO OF AVERAGE CEO COMPENSATION AND WORKER PAY IN THE US 1965-2005 2005 - 262:1 (Av. CEO-$10,982,000/Av. Worker- $41,861) 2004 - 238:1 2003 - 181:1 2002 - 143:1 2000 - 300:1 1989 - 71:1 1978 - 35:1 1965 - 24:1 Source: Mercer Survey of 350 large industrial and service firms conducted for the Wall Street Journal as reported by Mishel, Bernstein, Allegretto
It is not tripe, every study out there on this shows that executive salaries have gone up 256% since 1980 and that the top 10% controls 70% of the nation's wealth. Here are just a couple conservative sources that you may believe. I have many more if you would like to see them.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703992704576307332105245012.html
http://heritageinstitute.com/governance/compensation.htm
But if you take ALL the CEO comp together, it is still small next to the economy. I get so tired of CEO comp being listed as a reason for the recession. It just isn't true
That is absolutely false. How is it that the top 10% of earners now control over 70% of our entire nation's wealth and the bottom 50% now control less than 2% of our nation's wealth? It is not because taking ALL executive compensation together amounts to nothing, it amounts to 70% of our entire nation's wealth.
That is so utterly wrong. There are only 500 CEO's in the entire S&P 500. They are dwarfed in number, and total income, by many others including athletes, actors, small business owners and even talking heads on tv and radio.
You need to look at actual facts. Fine, don't trust me, go to the sources and look for yourself. I'm not making this up. This is not a partisan issue. This is a real problem, so don't be so dismissive. Here are some sources for you to see:
http://www.businessinsider.com/15-charts-about-wealth-and-inequality-in-america-2010-4#the-gap-between-the-top-1-and-everyone-else-hasnt-been-this-bad-since-the-roaring-twenties-1
http://www.businessinsider.com/15-charts-about-wealth-and-inequality-in-america-2010-4#the-last-two-decades-were-greatif-you-were-a-ceo-or-owner-not-if-you-were-anyone-else-5
http://www.businessinsider.com/15-charts-about-wealth-and-inequality-in-america-2010-4#and-savings-rates-are-sinking-7
http://www.businessinsider.com/15-charts-about-wealth-and-inequality-in-america-2010-4#despite-the-myth-of-social-mobility-poor-americans-have-a-slim-chance-of-rising-to-the-upper-middle-class-8
http://www.businessinsider.com/15-charts-about-wealth-and-inequality-in-america-2010-4#meanwhile-income-tax-is-getting-lower-and-lower-for-the-rich-10 http://www.businessinsider.com/15-charts-about-wealth-and-inequality-in-america-2010-4#the-income-gap-is-not-growing-in-other-countries-like-france-13
http://www.businessinsider.com/15-charts-about-wealth-and-inequality-in-america-2010-4#if-you-arent-in-the-top-1-then-youre-getting-a-bum-deal-15
http://finance.yahoo.com/tech-ticker/jeffrey-sachs-%22the-american-people-are-going-to-reach-a-breaking-point%22-yftt_536035.html?tickers=%5EDJI,%5EGSPC,MUB,TBT,TLT,UUP,SPY
http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/with-executive-pay-rich-pull-away-from-rest-of-america/2011/06/13/AGKG9jaH_story.html
http://www.usatoday.com/money/companies/management/story/CEO-pay-2010/45634384/1
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703992704576307332105245012.html
http://heritageinstitute.com/governance/compensation.htm
THE RATIO OF AVERAGE CEO COMPENSATION AND WORKER PAY IN THE US 1965-2005 2005 - 262:1 (Av. CEO-$10,982,000/Av. Worker- $41,861) 2004 - 238:1 2003 - 181:1 2002 - 143:1 2000 - 300:1 1989 - 71:1 1978 - 35:1 1965 - 24:1 Source: Mercer Survey of 350 large industrial and service firms conducted for the Wall Street Journal as reported by Mishel, Bernstein, Allegretto
Yeah, alot of people have been under assault by propaganda against unions for the past 30 years which is a very long time. I think it is time to snap out of it and realize that those institutions are largely responsible for getting people to the middle class in the first place. The degrading of those institutions has gone hand in hand with the anti union movement. Unions arent perfect but we just plain need to understand that OWS as far as I can tell, is fighting the same fight as the unions which is why I think they appreciate the endorsements.
You all have to follow the money trail...
Sadly few of the union workers realize that their paying to work, like a temp. job placement forever, and the labor laws are in place in each state to take hold of and make your bosses, supervisors, ect.. accountable via you (no need to pay someone).
No, need to pay the corporate banksters and corrupt puppets via your DUEs in order to make sure you get a fair wage, treatment, breaks, ect..Then your pensions you pay into get washed out by the manipulation of the markets by the very crooks you funded. The real leaders in control would like a communist union all dues PAYABLE. The Federal Reserve and it's Corporate Multinational Banks are behind the wars, the corporate corruption, the Wall Street manipulation, the government corruption, and nullifying the 99% .
WE ARE AGAINST THE CAUSE NOT THE SYMPTOM!
Unfortunately, the banksters write the state laws. End that and get government working for the people and unions are not necessary. Until then, we need them to help bring out the numbers.....or we lose.
Right on, at least in the beginning, but we need to get rid of those in office, and demand our government work for us. No more loopholes, rewrite the tax code, get rid of subsidies, all of them.
Yeah. We need to fight ALEC to stop them from writing the state laws.
You don't know how right you are. You say the unions are responsible for getting people to the middle class.... I say they are also the prime reason that you will NEVER be anything more than middle class!! They are there to suck the life out of working people so everybody is "happy" staying exactly where they are in life. Well, we can make a big exception to that if you are a union officer, retiring early, double dipping, and sucking the life out of even more of the population IE public union reps.
The unions certainly ARE fighting the same fight as "occupiers".... everybody deserves something and you all will get the exact same amount of that something and that is all you will ever get.... meanwhile, send us billions of dollars because we are representing the poor huddled masses.... ugh.
People only unionize due to poor working conditions and unfair pay distribution to the top. I am not tlking about a 60-40 split or even a 70-30 split. It is more like 90-10. The real question is why are you here and what is your solution? Let the corporations just do what they want? That worked really well in the 19th century, so well that Theodore Roosevelt began the movement to change it.
Why am I here? At first to try and figure out once and for all what the hell you all want... still don't know! Now, I look through these posts to see how ignorant people can actually get.... pretty damn so I've found out.
I am amazed that you all choose to look the other way with regard to the corruption and huge union rep salaries. How is this any different than what you accuse the corporations of.... except of course it's the direct stealing of workers money when it comes to unions. How is it a worker should have ANY say, whatsoever, in the pay structure of a corporation? You are hired to do a JOB, they tell you what you will be paid to do that JOB, they tell you what your benefits will be with that JOB. If you don't like it, go somewhere else.... what a novel idea. If you want to work and be paid, you will accept. What if I was in the union and disagree with what they are doing? I have to suck it up and take it, just like you working for an evil, nasty corporation. Or I can go work somewhere else without a union. I have been union and non union. Oh, btw, 12% OF CURRENT WORKFORCE IS UNIONIZED.... This occupy shit is their last stand and they know it.....
Well, the way the relationship really works, and this has been forgotten, is not so much that someone just passes out jobs people must be happy for. The relationship is that the employer needs help, the employee provides help but that makes them partners. The employer is not a monarch. The partnership works better with a...Magna Carta...a contract or set of rules. Otherwise, you have the wild west. As to the percentage, notice that the lower the unionized workforce gets, the more separation between classes and the more class warfare we have. I dont think it is a coincidence.
That's the basic problem right there....If I own a business and I hire employees, I am NOT looking for partners! I am PAYING them to work, not be a partner. It's my money on the line and I will run the business how I see fit to make money. I am paying what the market dictates for and EMPLOYEE. If you want to be a "partner", find someone that wants to share their money with yours to start a business.... THAT IS A PARTNER. There is a set of rules when you get hired by me, that's why I give you an "employee handbook". If you don't follow the rules, I will find somebody that will. This "partner" thinking would (and has) absolutely destroy businesses.
Also, this ginned up "wealth separation" is exclusively brought on by your government keeping the lower income population shackled in the current welfare state. If all this entitlement mentality was dispelled, the lower income population would burst into middle and upper income. After 60 years of this though, they are basically singing the "woe is me" song and will never break out of this cycle.
Class warfare is all the unions and democrat politicians have left.... create chaos hoping for a movement back to suckling their teats again.... and that's what you all want? Ugh....
No, there is an arrangement. I provide a service up to spec, as you say, and you pay me for it. This is not abject slavery. It is a voluntary arrangement on both sides, and both sides should be looking out for every aspect of the arrangement. You would not want a partner who did not follow the rules. And we have the lowest level welfare state in the western world. Is there anything you dont blame exclusively on the government?
Again, I do not want or expect a "partner" when I hire. If you are one of those employees that goes above and beyond looking out for my company/ business, you will be rewarded most likely. The union negates that because there is no reason to do anything above and beyond... everybody makes what is negotiated end of story. That is why if I run a good business, no matter what my profit, I will end up with good, happy employees without a union
I am not saying that there are no corporate injustices or inequities going on. It would be just stupid to say things that have happened causing this depression or the last one were government caused only. I am saying that the total dismantling of the system this country was founded on based on these issues is just idiotic and wrong. I guarantee if the government downsized greatly and got out of peoples lives, your so called wealth disparity would shrink dramatically and not how most of you want by bringing the achievers down.... it would elevate everybody
Unions are an absolute necessity, what made them corrupt is their lack of democracy and their largesse, where the heads of unions negotiated on behalf of people whose economic reality they did not have to share. Good governance means no creature comforts.
Yeah, it's right. Unions are needed, but currently most of the unions suffer from a lack of democracy. Unions should do General Assemblies, just like OWS, to let the rank-and-file workers debate and decide the questions related to the union.
Won't happen. Union leadership will not give up power or control. Even to their own rank and file. They need the rank and file to do the dirty work and PAY THEIR DUES! Which are then funneled to corrupt politicians to do favors for the bosses. The worker will soon find out how valuable they are when they try to encroach on the leadership territory. Stop paying dues, cross a picket line, or question ANYTHING the leadership says and you'll find out real fast where you stand and where your place is.
Sheep.
Unions are the only outlet for workers to have a voice, they are vital in organizing workers issues of benefits and safety, they also protect mid class jobs. If they are corrupt then theunion needs to vote in new leadership. They are not curropt however they are just painted that way by corporate media Ghostofjefferson.blogspot.com
Unions do nothing more than hold you back. Just another form of communism
So, it's time to a change in the leadership of the unions. Time to the rank-and-file people organize and take back the unions from the hands of the corrupt bureaucrats. In many countries of the world, people are trying to do this, organizing internal oppositions in the unions, to take it back to the workers.
Are you trying to tell me that's happening today? Not a chance. Big Labor Unions are so tight with Democrats and this administration that the National Labor Board is all but run by union bosses themselves.
The rank and file, the people, are pawns and not of the "evil bankers" or "Wall Street" OWS is so misguided and protesting in all the wrong places. Your strings are being pulled but you don't know who's got hold of them.
Its the time for change. Our society is cracking and remaking itself. Thats what happens in bad economic times. Things could be made worse for us by the 1% consolidating their power during the upheaval, or we can fight for a stake in our own future.
True enough, but the union members at least get a vote in that kind of thing.
Union leadership is trying to take away the secret ballot. So your VOTE will be cast with a union thug looking over your shoulder. Better make the right "choice".
Oh unions are so beyond thugs at this point.....its not 1950
SEIU Union thugs are saure as hell real.
Not anymore. Now we have "right to work" thugs represented in the state governments.
SEIU "thugs" are a bunch of pussies.
I was in a union for 15 years, then 15 years out of a union. Same corporation, I just changed subsidiaries. After 15 years of non-union and nearing retirement I found out that the health benefits would be greatly reduced. I had been promised in letter form at the change over that the benefits would remain intact. The letter turned out to be worthless and lawyers said "chance because the existing laws". The union was not perfect but without some group support you are at the mercy of the corporate feelings of mercy which are nill.
Remove any Politician that gives Trillions of dollars to Perpetuate Needless Foreign Wars, Banks, Wall Street, and “Money Laundering” Fake green energy companies. If the energy company is real and has potential, then good, give them money. Don't give money to a company just because the company gives big money to the Politician. The Politician will then blame the company that received the money, sound familiar? The largest criminal is the Politician. Remove the Politicians that vote for, or do nothing to stop this behavior. It is that easy. If they are corrupt, Republican or Democrat, vote them out. Not all Politicans are bad, but enough are. We need to remove the Politicians and not let them play us against each other, so it keeps our attention off their power grabs, using our money. They are trying to distract us off of who is giving our money away, “the Politicians.” Let’s focus on Protesting Washington.
Remove any Politician that gives Trillions of dollars to Perpetuate Needless Foreign Wars, Banks, Wall Street, and “Money Laundering” Fake green energy companies. If the energy company is real and has potential, then good, give them money. Don't give money to a company just because the company gives big money to the Politician. The Politician will then blame the company that received the money, sound familiar? The largest criminal is the Politician. Remove the Politicians that vote for, or do nothing to stop this behavior. It is that easy. If they are corrupt, vote them out. We need to remove the Politicians and not let them play us against each other, so it keeps our attention off their power grabs, using our money. They are trying to distract us off of who is giving our money away, “the Politicians.” Let’s focus on Protesting Washington.
And corporations were created by aliens from another planet who wanted to conquer this planet economically.
We should hold the politicians accountable. They have been buying personal power by paying off Wall Street & Banks. Change comes in a Democracy by electing politicians that put their country first and not themselves first. Capitalism provided me with this computer, to communicate without the filter of the government or the elite’s control. It allows me to speak out against political corruption. We need to protest the Politicians that wrote the checks out of our accounts. Not just the people that received the checks. We need to let Washington know it is not ok to write checks out of our accounts. Join us on a march on Washington and the Whitehouse. Let’s show the crooked Politicians how a Democracy works. Politicians are the only electable leaders of this country. Lets remove the bad apples November 2012.
The unions do help in many ways. The unions have been fighting for workers rights and they continue to do so. What we have to remember is - that is not our issue right now (emphasis on right now). We don't want to turn the issue of corporate ownership of the government into a workers rights issue. That will divert the energy to something that has been going on for a long time and will not address our main problem.
There are many issues worth fighting for around us. However, we have to pick and chose. I believe the OWS came into existence to fight corporate ownership of the government. We have to keep at that. We can welcome support from other groups but can never change our goal.
Created by the people, then hijacked like a bunch of corrupt assholes. The exact same thing happened to our government.
I have always worked in the private sector, and what you say is 100% true. There is NEVER job security and yes, I have experienced my job being threatened more than once over a whim. The most notable was when a Board Member brought her lover over from France with a token job position as a consultant to pay for his vacation here. All expenses were paid, including high end hotel, Wine Country tours, etc. I made some noise about this outrageous corruption, and was fired. The reason? My job was not needed. This happens at ALL levels of companys, big and small. I can't even imagine what it would have been like to have some representation.
It's sick isn't it?!!! A good friend of mine works in marketing and advertising on a high level, some of the corporations she's worked for are supposedly the "best" and the stories I could tell you, my god, like I said before-unions at the very least try to protect the workers and there is some type of job security.
We changed our union by educating the staff, so that the union worked hard to protect good co-workers. The result was an evaluation of each case to ensure fairness, but not going to the wall for goof-offs and abusive fools.
Many unions do a lot of good. Where there are shortcomings, unions can be improved from the grass roots, if you're willing to work at it.
There are many more kinds of "systems" beyond the "top and bottom" mechanistic system that you are describing. If we design our institutions based on organic systems, instead of mechanistic ones our institutions would grow and decline as needed, and would be equipped with the proper feedback mechanism to deal with the cancer of corruption.
To do this you need to increase the number of "representatives" and increase the number of organizations. Corruption increases with distance. You need more first hand knowledge amongst the public about what is going on. Everyone should know their representatives personally for example.
it is wonderful: your mass-media steel keeps absolute silence. After more than two weeks of protests!!! That is the mirror of democracy... I can see and study anything just from this site, created by only the some selfless enthusiasts, opposing to oligarchy. And this exploit is more valuable itn this conditions. Good luck!!!
Right on.
It's telling that the main accusation the right uses against organized labor is "corruption". A little newsflash for those who don't know: People Are Corrupt. It's the human condition. I've worked in the public sector and the private sector. Everywhere I've worked had some level of both corruption and incompetence. It's how we're built folks. Is it something to push back against and minimize? Absolutely. But let's be realistic about it.
Right.... and as if the right isn't full of corruption. Hypocrites.
"but at least unions were created by the people, for the people in response to absolute disgusting work conditions existing at the time."
That's exactly why the current government was created as well (replace work conditions with taxation w/o representation etc). Doesn't mean it's still working.
I agree but was specifically talking about unions here, not the fact that we are still living in a plutocracy/oligarchy/system of economic hierarchies where somebody is always on the top and a bunch of people are on the bottom. Some people may say they are one and the same. At least with unions there is some protection, workers rights and the actual ability for workers to get together and overthrow their so-called "corrupt bosses" and run the thing themselves if they so choose. Many people have done this, and one example I can think of in North America is my hometown television station, Chek 6. They were owned by a large corporation who wanted to shut down the television station a couple of years ago, well, the unionized workers got together and bought the station!! It was the oldest local island news station, and the way they got out of their mess was by working together.
unions have outlasted their usefullness to society.
SO what happens when those of us in the so-called 99% group find a way to climb the financial ladder ad then we become among the 1% group? then what? should we give it all back? should we lose because we win? get real people life is a competiton, get off your butts and work your way into the 1% ers and stop the friggen whining. why wall street? why not professional athletes? or rock stars? they all make more than the average person on wall street? want a good cause then go after the teachers unions, they're suking the life (and budgets) out of our school systems. contracts with guaranteed steps and raises are killing the quality of education, not to mention property taxes and property values. Fire all the teachers and hire younger ones with more energy and desire.
Sorry, I'm trying to get this straight.... you seem to actually STILL believe in the American Dream and competing to achieve such an ideal!!!?? George Carlin put it best when he said,"The American Dream....... ya gotta be asleep to believe it!!!" The 99% NEVER GET TO THE 1%! Meanwhile, the 99% are expected to pay for all mistakes the 1% make. I would suggest going after idiots like Bush for killing the quality of education with one fail swoop with his "intelligent design" propaganda. As for your ridiculous idea that teachers are sucking the life out of education with, god forbid, RAISES, I ask, are you asleep man!!??? Where have you been for the last 20 years?!! Ever heard of a little thing called INFLATION?????!!! Have you somehow not noticed that the cost of living and rate of inflation continues to rise, unchecked? Do you comprehend that unions have such graduated raises built into their contracts in anticipation of the continued rise of the inflation rates? Do you comprehend that teachers work hours of unpaid labour to teach the likes of you and me? Have you any idea what the reality is with children going into the school system now?That 6 year olds, yes, 6 year old children starting grade one, have no idea how to tie their shoe laces, have no idea how to interact with other children and adults in a social setting-like a classroom, a cloakroom, or a playground, and cannot even recite their ABC's????? Not to mention the learning disabilities that parents have not even started to work on with the child before sending them to school. Teachers will not subsidize the education of America's youth out of their own pockets, they have a union to protect their rights and your response is "quit whining" and "get real people, life is a competition". Competition has outlasted it's usefulness when the end result looks the America of today. You see, engaging in competition involves some sort of brain power, and in case you have not noticed the USA has allowed itself to become the LEADER in ILLITERACY WORLDWIDE, while simultaneously wildly encouraging the dumbing down of culture. This is part of what the people who are fighting for the 99% are saying. Think about it, what is America known for now- versus the 50's and 60's when the idea of of the American Dream and competing to achieve it still had meaning??? Now, the current American cultural landscape includes- major sexual addictions, an intent focus on everything in society with a sexualized lens(think child beauty pageants), kitschy lives lived on pornographic landscapes of orange tans, reality tv, drug wars, race wars, cosmetic surgery for everyone including children, tacky cheap lifestyles of the rich and brainless, money being spent on "intelligent design" propaganda in schools, the land of pharmaceutical corporate political domination and the many addicts left in the wake of this relationship, people trying to sell cheap items no one will NEVER need, an OBESITY epidemic affecting even the children, over-consumption of useless, cheap, and toxic plastic objects and the flagrant love of it, a government that wages ILLEGAL WARS against any and everybody, holding the title for -THE BIGGEST LIARS ON THE PLANET- and the second, third and fourth titles of -LYING TO YOUR CITIZENS, THE BIGGEST BULLY ON THE PLANET and THE CREATORS OF GATED COMMUNITIES filled with quiet desperation, never ending boredom and play dates for the children.
My vote is for working together rather than "competition".
pul-lease. man you are all over the place so im not responding to all your ramblings. i do hope my kids are no where near your crazy classroom. for starters, you point out deep cultural problems, which idont disagree with but isnt really what we are (were) talking about. Teachers are overpaid and their raises are oversized. period. inflation, as you like to point out, has been rising at 2% per year, teachers contracts in my town go up 6-7% per year locked in for five years. And lets not forget that teaching is a part time job, in by 7:30 out by 2:20; and off 4 months a year. thats part time. And after most are tenured they coast for the next 27 years. We dont need that. we should be able to hire and fire as we please, like the rest of the world. so get off your high teachers horse and see what its like to have a real grown up job -- my guess is you with all the whining you do that you couldnt handle it.
Why not hold Obama accountable for his mistakes... if he did his job remotely well, this would not even be an issue. He is learning on the job (having not run any political or private entity), and not fast enough. He has no new ideas, and is channeling your anger to redistribute wealth from those who worked hard to earn it. Is this the America we want? Punish the successful when the economy he can't jumpstart stalls? If you take entrepreneurial risk and succeed honorably, will you want to be a villan?
You are right in that Obama's policies are failures in the same way that Bush's and Reagan's were. I wonder if that is due to the man, Obama, or due to entrenched interests controlling the presidency. Although you seem to jump off the deep end after rightfully calling for accountability so I won't jump with you.
This movement is about retaking our own government. The 99% reclaiming their voice in the public realm. Rebuking the corruption and stagnation inflicted upon the public realm by the 1%.
The difference is we have a chance to avoid the mistake the second time around. Focus efforts on political change and government can be returned to the people.
Not by voting for the same old leading candidates. The electoral process has too much money involved in it. THAT is what needs to be focused on. The faults of the current president or the prior, or the republican or the democrat is immaterial. Its the corrosive influence of wealth on our politics that is the problem. And so focusing on the 1% is the right thing to do.
Voting for the president in a system like we have is only a side show while the real movers and shakers don't show their face. Money has no face.
You seem to be saying, "well, hell, everybody is corrupt but this is corruption for and by the people and that's ok by me"! You say "at least the unions were created by the people, for the people".... excuse me, but that is exactly why and how your federal government was formed in the first place. If what you say is correct, then the federal government is fine the way it is because it had good intentions 240 years ago. If you think unions exist for "workers right" you are extremely naive or just ignorant of the true union agenda. I too have been both union and non union.
Do you really think that the unions are just now "joining" in on this occupy thing? Get real.... this was organized months and months ago BY unions and their affiliated groups and now you all stand there and say this is a spontaneous, grass roots, love gathering.... give me a break already.
That makes no sense. The unions organized months ago to join something they couldn't have planned for? Its not like this protest was put on the calendar for everyone.
OMG, you can't be this naive. Have you even heard of the Working Families Party, "community organizers", SEIU (which discussed this exact occupation back in March), Open Society Institute?
This is an organized (disorganized actually) attempt at chaos and class warfare to bring down the system this country is based on in order to proceed with a communist/ socialist society... plain and simple. For you dupes that actually think this is some wholesome, grassroots, beautiful movement to right wrongs.... I just have to laugh. I've got some swamp land to sell you cheap!!
Would you like to address the actual point? Or are you just going to spout paranoia at random in attempt to bait me into getting angry? You can't be so naive to think that that will work here.
You are spouting irrelevant non-sense.
How does this evil group you are going on about plan for something that it didn't know what exist? It can't.
The unions are simply reacting to join a movement that they share common interest with. Its the way these things work. Your paranoia is sickening and will weaken the movement. I suggest you get some courage and go out and join the protest.
OK, I will try again. You say the unions are, like, wow cool we like what these young forward thinking folks are saying and we should go and support them... They need us behind them.
Oh come on! If you are true to yourself, you will research this "movement" a little bit. I know there are many many of you that BELIEVE this is a spontaneous outpouring of rage and frustration but you really need to look into this. As I said, this was all laid out by union heads back in March and supported by many left wing organizations... these are just facts. If you choose to ignore and float along in this ignorant cloud, that is up to you all. (ignorant is not demeaning, it is just a lack of knowledge about something)
You can't say something is a fact wthout presenting evidence. Unless you're Obama and want to kill an American citizen without so much as an indictment of course.
That's not what I said. And you still aren't making any sense.
I think the Unions see benefit in this for themselves, but I do not see that as detrimental to the thrust of the Occupy Wall Street movement.
Of course the Unions see this as a plus for them and I did not say Union backing would be detrimental to this "occupation". I said, they are the ones that came up with this "movement" and with their backing they hope you all succeed beyond everybody's wildest dreams. This was not a bunch of college kids or young adults just magically coming together in a matter of weeks to "show the world". If you believe that.....
Show substantive evidence or let it drop.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CLfP5u3_JA&feature=player_embedded
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=9jOxERtkwN4
Just a couple for you..... keep your mind open
how is that evidence? thats edited footage put up on youtube. do you have anything that is substantive?
forget it. you had your chance. i've wasted too much time, and the best you could do was put up footage that would need to be tested by a professional to determine if its real, not taken out of context etc.... unconvincing at best, if thats all you can do.
it's called common sense if you actually took the time to think about what you are saying
goeib1. more read, less argue-on-the-internets:
http://ampedstatus.org/a-report-from-the-frontlines-the-long-road-to-occupywallstreet-and-the-origins-of-the-99-movement/
step 1: read it
step 2: turn off internets
step 3: go outside and meet people to cooperate with
step 4: ???
step 5: PROFIT!!
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I support the intention, however Occupy Wall Street is foolish for being leaderless and for being in the wrong location. Wall Street is playing by corrupt rules, but whose corrupt rules are they? Who is saying their actions are legal?
Protester should go occupy the lives of members in Congress the same way Scientology harasses people. C'mon! Hanging around in NYC like pigeons won't do any good. You think the 1% can't take a limo to a jet and head for someplace more pleasant?
Go after Congress! They're the ones who are allowing the 1% to get whatever they want. Sure, NYC is a convenient hangout, but it's not going to be effective, and a real movement needs to establish key figureheads so it isn't just a bunch of noise.
DON'T BE A SIMPLE MINDED MOB DRIVEN BY IMPRACTICAL IDEALISM
DON'T JUST VENT OUT OF ANGER AND DISSATISFACTION
DON'T MAKE UNREALISTIC DEMANDS
Be Smart. Be Effective. Be Organized. Go after the right targets.
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Not having leaders,and keeping the movement "open source" is the strength of the movement. Leaders = targets.
Unfortunately reality isn't like the Internet, protesters aren't hackers, and the 99% are not like Anonymous.
Leaders should be targets and they should be able to take the heat. By all means, I hope OWS won't need leaders. However, I fear people are short-sighted by their enthusiasm.
Its better to be flexible. Each individual carries a movement within them. If a few fall by the way side the rest can stand up and gather more to the cause.
Its just like the Zapatista movement in which everyone dressed like Marcos.
Unfortunately, the tactics of the 1% cannot be trusted. Leaders are targets, and targets can be assassinated.
Then they become martyrs. Neda was a pivotal influence for the Tehran revolution. You're thinking out of fear.
Maybe you just sucked at your private sector job... The point of free market is competition (unfortunately we are FAR FAR away from a free market). That goes with jobs. If you SUCK at your job, yes, you will be fired. But if you are a good employee, then you don't have to worry about your job security. I've yet to meet anyone that was worried about losing their job in the private sector because they used their vacation time, or they had to stay at home with their child when they were sick. This is pretty typical for someone to make people FEAR things like private sector jobs to promote such things as unions. Unions try to use fear to promote their cause and its ridiculous. I work in the private sector, specifically in a technology field, and I'm not fearful of losing my job. Number one, because I'm a good employee and work hard. And number two, because if I get fired, I know I actually HAVE skills to go find another job, whereas many people in the public sector have skills attainable by a 5th grader. I think unions were created for a great reason. But what started as "workers rights" is really now "workers benefits." Workers rights consist of things like a safe workplace, a lunch if you work a specific amount of hours, you can only be worked so much... you know things that are dangerous for the worker in general. Workers benefits are healthcare, PTO, 401ks and so forth. That's the problem with people who support modern day unions. They now think they deserve what they call "workers rights" when in reality those are "workers benefits." This is also a problem with the whole social system i America in general. So many people believe that they were born with these ENTITLEMENTS. That is so far off from the truth its ridiculous. I was born into America, where I have protection of my life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. If you want your "workers rights" that's great, but the 50% of America that actually pays taxes, including me are tired of paying for your benefits.
You have to worry about job security at EVERY job if you do not have union protection. If it is not a union job, you sign hire on paperwork that states" i understand my job can be terminated at any time and for any reason" so if your boss's new fling needs a job, good bye you!
If the boss's new fling can do the job as good as that other person - why should the boss not be able to bring in the fling to do the job? The free market principle would have two answers for you:
If the boss can do that and the business doesn't suffer, then you and that fling were substitutable commodities. It really doesn't matter that you had the job or the new fling had the job and why not something that makes the boss happier?
If you are better than that new fling, then either the business will suffer or the boss will suffer (he will become less employable in the eyes of his superiors). If that doesn't happen, see 1.
You are so full of it. In the private sector, you can be fired for ANYTHING, and you have no way of protecting yourself. Someone was fired at my company by the H.R. Director, just because that person didn't like the H.R. Director. They weren't a bad employee. They just didn't personally like the one in charge and got fired for it. You could be the best employee and still be fired for something petty.
You claim that "if you are a good employee you don't have to worry about your job security" Really?? I'm sorry to ask, but is this your first job? YOU are assuming that anyone who speaks up for workers rights and benefits "suck" at their jobs. Assuming others "suck" at their job and that is why they can no longer keep them is a big generalization. It makes no sense. Think about it. Top CEO's, right now, cannot find jobs because they are "over qualified"! You wrote, "I actually HAVE skills to go find another job, whereas many people in the public sector have skills attainable by a 5th grader", which made me wonder if you understand that your job is of no greater importance then any other job people hold on this planet. This is the problem,-class, lack of equality for all people across the board, a reasonable wage for everyone no matter what you do because everyone's job IS equally important. We all know by now that all human beings are amazing creatures, each capable of great things, so, why should one human be tortured while another human galavants around on a luxury yacht???.If we can't agree on that, then we are all fucked. You wrote that you were born in America, where the protection of your life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness is a given. Really. What happened the last time you tried to go to a hospital without health insurance? How's that for protecting your life? And I don't know where you have been in the last couple of years, but did you somehow miss Hurricane Katrina??!!!?? What protection of life are you speaking of exactly, specifically in that case? You see, from where I hail, we do think, believe, will fight and pay for the very things you claim as frivolous. Healthcare, pensions and caring for the elderly is something worth fighting for, don't you think?
And I've seen plenty of the crap you claim you've never seen. I've put up with a lot of it myself.
Employment is not just about just your skills - you also have to negotiate the politics of the office (it's called being human).
Just ran Debegga's comment through Google Translate from "Rant" into "Common Sense". It translated as:
"Fuck everyone except me."
If you're such a nihilist go put on some Doc Martens and hit the nearest hardcore club tonight for some slamdancing. Leave the planning of a fair society to people who aren't so filled with selfishness and hate as yourself.
Exactly. The moment unions became self-sustaining organisms, they ceased to work for the people. They work for themselves now.
Don't get me wrong. I was all for this movement until it accepted the endorsement of unions. I was actually going to attend the protest in my state tomorrow morning, but after I've listened and read more about what many of these protestors are protesting, it seems they really want MORE government control. I was under the impression that this was about the government being corrupted by the money on wall street. I was under the impression OWS was about protesting the money and greed in government and how it's destroying the lives of everyday citizens. How can OWS accept the endorsement of Unions who buy out politicians like Obama. To accept an endorsement of the unions is essentially accepting the endorsement of the democratic party seeing as how unions have them bought out. So it's sort of ironic that OWS is accepting an endorsement from the same greedy people buying out politicians. Sadly enough OWS would have had THOUSANDS of more supporters if they had stuck to their guns about greed in the government. It's not wall street you people should be protesting, but congress and the federal reserve. To ignore this fact shows the true ignorance of the protestors... Seeing as how Obama plans on spending hundreds of millions on his reelection campaign, you guys should start at the White House, because that money definitely didn't come from everyday citizens.
Ah, I see. What you need to do is join the Tea Party because this is not about Obama at all.
OMG, shut up and just do your job.
I own a business, and would do my very best not to let someone with your narcissism and entitlement attitude ever get hired in the first place.
This is why the unions are so needed: because of bosses like you, who think that are doing a "great favor" for "giving a job" to someone. People are not machines, people are not a tool that you can use the way you want, to extract your profit. This is why workers organize collectively in the unions: to make their voices prevail over bosses like you.
Unions give nothing. They only take. They take from their rank and file. They take from the economy. They take from politicians. They are the leeches of humanity.
"Labor is the superior of capital" ~ Lincoln
In context...Lincoln was arguing at the time for abolition. The quote would be better placed in China today...the unions should organize there if the really are for workers. The day Trumpka is willing to risk imprisonment and torture he'll be quoting Lincoln properly.
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there a huge difference between union members and union leaders. Union leaders play the political game the same way corporations do.
Have you ever studied how the unions were created? Read something about it, please... You need to understand better what are unions and how they were originated.
From the late 1800s to the 1950s the labor unions played a valuable and important role in safety in the workplace, fair wages, and proper work hours. They were a good thing when they were formed.
Not any more. In fact in the 50s they full of corruption, violence, and intimidation. The CIO (Congress of Industrial Organizations) was full of communists until they were driven from the union in 1948.
The unions are now nothing but power brokers providing token benefits to workers to maintain their front. They wield political clout in the Democratic party and are as closely associated with socialists and communists as they were in the past.
You've been punked and you won't know it till everything finally crashes and you're left out by the very people who make you feel like your in.
As I've said it isn't 1950
I'm not the "boss", I'm the owner. They guy who went without pay for months at a time, who put his 401K on the line to grow the business (and avoid firing anyone). Marxism is a failed and discredited economic theory, leftistperson, and the idea that we "extract profit" from humans shows how ignorant you really are
Marxism is not failed. Centrally planned and controlled economies are. There is a very big difference.
didnt want to be a wage laboring bitch like everyone else didnt you. now you be the pimp, grats man. if you dont know what extract profit is get a clue about wages and surplus value. marx wrote about capitalism so yeah we might even have common ground here lol.
FreeMarkets - I'd be honored to work for someone like you who actually creates value for society. They don't realize the sacrifice that owners make for their businesses - the long nights, the put everything on the table risks, the moments of despair when nothing seems possible and you can't make payroll. They only see the entrepreneurs who are successful and can enjoy a bit of the benefits of owning capital.
People like us need to leave here and get back to working on our businesses - unfortunately sniping weak liberal minds is a bit too much fun!
Bosses like that are not the problem. People like you are. People who think that they deserve a job. The whole American Dream is that this is the land of OPPORTUNITY, not hand outs. If you want a job, you have to earn a job. You have to have a skill, or have to be willing to do something others won't. Otherwise, you're pointless. This is the system that WE created. Complaining about the problem will not solve anything. Asking for a handout will not get you anything. You have to earn everything in this world, and if you can't do that, then you don't need to make it - others who can, will.
Wall Street ASKED for a hand out from the US tresurey and got it ! You think they earned it???!!!
EXACTLY!!!! Too many people are too brainless to get it. They think that because the crooks on Wall St. figured out a way to screw citizens that they deserve the millions and millions they got and shouldn't be punished. And then they lecture the rest of us about getting jobs. Fucking idiots.
Ahh, I get it. OWS isn't about fixing anything - it's about people who want the redistribution of wealth to go towards them rather than the banks. It's not "let's fix it" - it's "let's get ours."
It's starting to all make sense to me - the socialist movements have never been about equality, they've been about redistribution. I guess they never realize that one day they might have their own comforts and wealth "redistributed" to someone else.
Just because Wall Street is crooked and stole from the public doesn't mean that everyone else should try the same gimmick - I thought OWS was about fixing corruption, not getting in line behind the corrupt.
Straw man arguments won't derail this movement.
This movement doesn't need to be derailed, it's not on rails. It's more churn than motion - frustration instead of change.
I hope this movement takes America to a better place - I am young and want to see America and the world become the place I imagined growing up. I don't think the way this movement is currently being run, that it will get there. Perhaps like all great change, it needs to start with something and that's what OWS is right now.
Just remember, Wall St. is much better organized, much clearer thinking and much more comfortable in their towers than you will be in a few months. That's why I have very little faith in this particular movement to cause much change.
If you see problems then get involved in a General Assembly in your city. Otherwise you are the one churning meaninglessly. Make yourself heard and shape the movement as much as you can to what you think it should be.
This movement has profound potential. I have not seen anything like this in this country before. And I am not young.
Its a shame in this case that I - an aging man - am less cynical than a young one such as yourself. Our culture has lost a great deal.
Not a hand out. A loan. They had to pay it back. Please get in touch with reality, it desperately misses you.
That was not a loan. It was christmas bonues money for the next ten years. You need to get in touch with reality,hence the reason WHY the 99% is the streets protesting for the past three weeks. This revolution will continue. By the way,name calling and insults are childish. Try intelligent debating,if you're capable.
Everyone deserves a job, they just may not all deserve top executive jobs. Everyone deserves the opportunity to turn down a job. Government hand outs to Wall street, General Motors and such are uncalled for! We the working americans are paying for that when it wasnt our fault they were too stupid to budget their money and were going bankrupt. I agree you have to earn your keep, but that dont mean I should be a CEO or president of a major company. I deserve my job, I worked hard to get it in this tough economy. And I will work hard to keep it. Shouldnt everyone who is willing to work be offered the chance to succeed the same?
And if I don't fit the needs of the bosses, what should I do? If I don't meet the requirements of the bosses to "give me a job", so what? I kill myself? Should I commit suicide? [sarcasm]Of course... We live in a world of so much scarcity... This world is so poor... There is not enough wealth in this world to permit everyone to have a decent life... If I'm not good enough to find a boss who could purchase my labor capacity, I should let myself die from starvation.[/sarcasm]
And if the economy is bad, it gets really hard to find a good job, even when you DO have the skills, education, talents, abilities, knowledge, experience, etc. It's not so easy as stepping out of your house and stumbling across your dream job on the first try like some try to claim it is.
No one owes you your dream job. Go out and make your dream job or stop complaining and do something someone needs you to do.
Um.... did I say that someone owes me my dream job? In a bad economy, it's hard to find ANY job that pays livable wages. Wake the hell up. Why the hell should people go to college if all they will end up doing is working for minimum wage because they can't find a good-paying job in their career field and most other jobs don't pay a livable wage.
This entire thread tangent is why I don't tip. It's not my fault a waitress makes 2.75 an hour. I purchase food, not service. I would be perfectly fine with picking my food up at a window. Real change starts with the individual, and I strive to make that waitress feel as though she needs to ask for a legitimate wage by decreasing her earning potential through the practice of non-tipping. Let the down votes begin.
I deliver pizza and have worked as a waitress. All I can say is that I KNOW what happens to the food of people who don't tip (and trust me, we KNOW who you are!). so unless you like spit, shit or snot on your food you are an idiot to eat out and NOT tip. Or maybe you never eat in the same place twice (although servers move around, so you're still not safe there...) If I have 4 deliveries in my car I can tell you it doesn't matter if you're living right next to the store, if you don't tip and another delivery is 6 miles away, your pizza is going on the scenic route. Hopefully it's not a driver who will take it out of the warm bag and eat some of the toppings, or worse. You ARE just cheap.
I agree..... it's crap that the consumer has to pick up the tab to make sure servers make more than a measely $2-something an hour. I do tip, because I've been a server and know how it is, but it's so unfair that restaurants are exempt from paying higher wages to servers. In Australia and other countries (in Asia), it's not customary to tip servers, because they make a living wage. In Australia, they make over $20/hr. When I tip servers in Asian countries, they give me funny looks.... because they aren't used to it. I've been to Hong Kong 3 times, and every time I go, I ask the people at the hotel reception desk if it's customary to tip the bell hops there. They tell me it's not customary like it is in the U.S. and that it's up to me if I tip them or not.
This country has a lot of problems when it comes to work and wages.... and it's about damn time they be fixed.
if you don't want to tip then don't eat in a resturant where there are HARD WORKING PEOPLE bring food to your table. You don't belong in their place of business...their house.
I think that just makes you too cheap to tip, your not doing her a favor no matter how you try to justify it, your just being a jerk.
Why don't you learn how to spell and use proper grammar and punctuation? Don't chastise someone else when you don't even possess basic English grammar, punctuation, and spelling skills. That really gets under my skin.
Do you even realize how incredibly unnecessary this comment is? Prescriptive grammar is just a way for you to feel publicly superior to someone. I'm sure you read that person's comment and could comprehend what their intended statement was. Are you their seventh grade grammar teacher? No? Get over yourself.
Using proper (or at least attempting to), punctuation, and spelling MAKES STATEMENTS EASIER TO READ AND UNDERSTAND. Some people don't even try.... so why should I listen to what they have to say if they can't even try to make what they're saying clearer by at least attempting to do so? A lot of people write without using punctuation at all. It either shows laziness or ignorance. It's hard reading an entire paragraph that has no punctuation at all. People are complaining about change, yet they don't even possess the most basic of writing skills.
Or it indicates a learning disability, or a lack of a comprehensive education. You are quick to judge about something that is incredibly inane, my friend.
I don't like how prevalent tipping is - but by entering the restaurant in the first place you are buying into the social system of tipping. If you don't buy into that system, you should stay out of restaurants. Otherwise, it does appear that you are just cheap.
This makes you sound like Dwight Schrute from the office - he doesn't tip for things he "could" do himself - but the point is that a restaurant you don't do those things yourself.
You live in America, you can get food stamps or go to food shelters, you won't starve. Will you be able to afford the new iPhone? No. Will you be able to go on a four-year vacation known as college? No. Will you be able to take vacations? Yes, if you are smart about it.
America is not poor. You are poor morally and intellectually. I sympathized with the 99% movement because the Wall St. crowd has been wrong, but their moral bankruptcy is but a fraction of your moral bankruptcy.
SO what happens when those of us in the so-called 99% group find a way to climb the financial ladder ad then we become among the 1% group? then what? should we give it all back? should we lose because we win? get real people life is a competiton, get off your butts and work your way into the 1% ers and stop the friggen whining. why wall street? why not professional athletes? or rock stars? they all make more than the average person on wall street? want a good cause then go after the teachers unions, they're suking the life (and budgets) out of our school systems. contracts with guaranteed steps and raises are killing the quality of education, not to mention property taxes and property values. Fire all the teachers and hire younger ones with more energy and desire.
leftistperson- you are correct, if you dont work hard enough to have a marketable capacity, your a lazy worker who deserves to have no job. Why should you get paid if you do not work towards a skill, or just plain work hard? why do you think other people should give you a job if you dont merit one? If your not handicapped or somehow incapacitated, and you won't work, you deserve to starve.
I have education, a lot of experience, skills, talent, knowledge, etc. in my career..... yet I went 5 years without a permanent job in my field, because of how Bush 43 killed the economy. I looked and looked for a job in my field and even in non-related fields and couldn't find one. I even was open to doing something I didn't like just to pay my bills. Does that mean I'm lazy???
No, it probably means you couldn't get past the interview....
It's hard to get past the interview when you don't get interviews, because there are no jobs. Get a clue.
Sorry to break it to you but perhaps your skills and talent aren't as needed in this economy as other skills and talent. Or maybe they are but there are younger, smarter and harder working people willing to do it for less. It's not being harsh, it's being realistic.
Um.... no, your opinion is quite wrong. Before Bush 43 stole the election in 2000, I was working free-lance and could pick and choose where I worked and who fo, and I was busy all the time. Then, things dried up during Bush's reign, and I was without sufficient free-lance work (too many people looking for work and not enough work.... the complete opposite of before the Bush 43 years), and couldn't find a permanent job.
Your comments are ignorant and inflammatory.
So, what? So she deserves to starve?
Americans who don't work don't starve. She'll have a much lower standard of living.
And I do work and did work back then. I couldn't find a sustainable job in my career or even in other fields. I had to wait tables.... since many jobs in the USA, especially waiting tables, don't pay livable wages.... which didn't even pay my bills. I NEVER have been on welfare.... so fuck off.
coulda shared my job, any idiot can do it. not to say you are an idiot, swissmiss, just saying id be happy if someone did half of my shift. if my company didnt feed stock holders and CEOs like mad would even shared the money because my wage could be doubled but like this i just have enough to go around. unfortunately my company is run by stock holders, they appoint the CEO to pay minimum wages to the workers and dividends as high as possible to them.
Oh, really? So, I think that the lazy parasites who "own a business" (often inherited from their parents) and put a manager to administer it, and live the "good life", going to parties every night, sleeping until noon, traveling around the world, appreciating good wines, while their employees work like slaves to give them their profits, should be expropriated and put to starve to death. We're even?
25 years ago I went to work as a parts clerk.. I worked my ass off. Today I own that company, and no I wasn't related. My business employees over 120 hard working Americans. I just took my first family vacation in 7 years. Yes I sat on a beach in Maui sipping wine. Bottom line after payroll, taxes, medical ins, workers comp, 401k, more taxes, fees for accounting to defend the audits, fees for tremendous government regulation, garage keepers insurance, FICA, medicare, (you get the idea) I keep 6%. Of that I pay 35% in Federal Corporate taxes, 6% in state taxes. Then I pay personal taxes on top of that . Raise my taxes further, I'll shut it down and there will be another 120 unemployed.
I agree... for the people who refuse to work and are capable of doing so, they shouldn't get anything. But not everyone who's not working or who's on unemployment is lazy and is not wanting to work. I know several people who've lost their professional jobs and who can't find another one, so they are doing odd jobs just to make some money.... even though they don't pay all the bills.
Yeah.... those who inherit their companies and money and who don't do a damn bit of work deserve everything and are privileged..... RIGHT!!!!!!!! That's what these dumb asses are trying to say.... because they probably are one of them.
If they built that business and now it provides them with profits so they can enjoy life - then who are you to say how they should spend their time. Most small business owners work harder, smarter and longer than their employees dare to dream to get their and many never do.
Leaving a legacy for your children is even more difficult. Often much of it is lost to the government in the process of transferring even though all that has been taxed already. If they truly are lazy and dumb, they will eventually lose their business (no business is powerful enough to sustain years of mismanagement). If they aren't dumb (and by the way, appointing a good leadership team to manage your company is VERY difficult) and they are able to automate their business so they can enjoy life, then they're worth a lot more than you and should enjoy the value of the skills they possess.
You don't "give" them their profits. The market does. You give them your skills, they are able to put that to use to create goods the market needs. Get it?
Because work not capital is what makes the economy run. If the system in place enables people not to work at the expense of the others it is a broken system and needs to be changed.
leftistperson - you are misguided and a crook and have not thought out your ideas to their logical ending. You advocate totalitarianism - the imposition of someone's will over another. That story has played out throughout history and always ends in chaos and the collapse of that society. This is a capitalist republic (if we can keep it) - the store owner you say owes you a job has capital and should be able to deploy it as they see it. You also have capital - that capital is the value of your labor, if they don't value it, they don't have to buy it.
Unions are nothing but the assembly of capital for additional negotiation leverage. If all the workers in an area gather together to negotiate with a factory owner, they have much more power over the negotiations than if each does it. This concept is fine and I applaud workers for organizing - unfortunately the leverage of labor has significantly decreased over time due to globalization - this is not the fault of the "capitalists" - it's called reality. The capitalist didn't kill your job - he found someone willing to do it for much cheaper - why does that person in India or Africa not have the right to that job? They're selling their capital just as you are - they're just offering it for a better price.
In certain fields, owners are desperate to find employees - the value of those employees labor as capital is worth a lot and so they are able to negotiate at much more favorable terms. If your labor isn't worth anything - it doesn't entitle you to the output of those who have invested in improving the value of their own labor.
Throughout time immemorial - people like you, your children, your family and loved ones would have starved. Thank your ancestors for moving you to America - a land so plentiful because capital is free that the safety net is able (and willing) to keep you alive.
You're an idiot. No one said anything about anyone owing anyone else a job. Who will do the work for those who own companies? They can't do it all themselves, and therefore they need to hire people. It's a two-way street.... not a one-way street like you seem to think it is. Who will work in all the corporations that are amassing billions upon billions of dollars???
Just thinking how silly this sounds:" No one said anything about anyone owing anyone else a job. Who will do the work for those who own companies?"
There are people who want to work for those companies, and companies that want to hire those kind of people. Unfortunately for you, you're not part of that set.
Look, there are still jobs in America for those who have the skills that people need - if you don't have one of those skills and don't want to learn one - prepared to live a much lower standard of life. It's the same with companies - if they don't want to make things people want to buy - they go bankrupt.
How do you know I don't work for a corporation? That's your misguided and ignorantly incorrect opinion.
As a word of advice, your attitude will work against you and this movement. I was responding directly to leftistperson's comments like:
And if I don't fit the needs of the bosses, what should I do? If I don't meet the requirements of the bosses to "give me a job", so what?
That reads to me like he/she believes they are owed a job. By the way - your rhetorical questions already have answers: people across the world are more than happy to do our American jobs - people in China love making iPhones, people in Eastern Europe love programming websites, people in India love taking that customer service call.
Don't get me wrong - there are systemic issues with our system that need to be addressed - the answers that the socialists and hardcore left are proposing are not the answers.
You called leftistperson misguided and a crook. That's a ridiculous comment to what they wrote. Why are people in other countries doing jobs that we used to do? Oh, yeah.... because of CHEAP LABOR. If you think making $7 an hour is great and will pay the bills and will keep people out of poverty and is worth it, then YOU are the misguided one. NO ONE CAN LIVE ON $7 an hour no matter what way you spin it.
Why is it that European companies can pay their employees living wages for EVERY job, but it's so hard to do here??? It's because of GREED. And your answer is "people in other countries are happy to do the same jobs for that or less". Yeah, that's because their cost of living is WAY LESS than ours is, too. $& an hour to someone in Indonesia may be a lot of money, but it isn't shit here... and it WON'T pay the bills.
Oh, the right has ALL the answers.... pay people peanuts for doing work to make the ones at the top millions upon millions, end unemployment for those who have been unfortunate enough to be laid off, end Social Security and Medicare, pay people peanuts but tax them higher and don't give them anything but they must be happy and paying them peanuts will make the economy stronger, etc. You people are so delusional.
"people in other countries are happy to do the same jobs for that or less". This is because of supply demand mismatch. It's the greatest rule in economics. More supply of labor and few jobs = Low wages. Less supply of labor and many jobs = High wages.
Cost of living is not the main driver for wages.
Have a good evening
I agree SwissMiss...how can this person call the other a crook?? I make $10 an hour and cant pay all my bills. I can barely pay the sitter and gas to get to work. And thats with my husband working a good job too. I have a decent title and when people hear it they think im loaded..HA! Cost of living has went up sooo high and Obama refuses to acknowledge it. I mean he said the Middle Class makes $200,000 a year! If thats the case, I am WAY below poverty level!!
He's a crook because he wants to take something from one person and give it to another. It's hard on a situation by situation basis to judge, but in general people who think they are in trouble are just not thinking hard enough.
Do you pay for cable? That's $60-100 dollars a month. Stop watching TV and improve your health and your brain. Do you pay for Internet? Go use it at the library and stop wasting time on all these sites. Do you have a monthly cell plan?
Can you take a bus to work - sell one of your cars.
I live frugally because all that crap just isn't necessary.
Anecdotal evidence is irrelevant when discussing systemic problems.
Ever try getting a job WITHOUT THAT CRAP!! Jerks!
Getting a job without TV is easy. There are plenty of places with Internet freely available. The car is understandable - but really a symptom of our society's poor planning in building a suburban landscape without consideration that oil may be a finite resource.
leftistperson is a crook because the idea that underlies his thinking leads to theft from the productive sectors of society to the unproductive. Why should Americans support industries that just aren't competitive anymore? Countries that aren't willing to allow for some creative destruction of their industries will eventually stagnate. We're falling prey to the idea of make-work employment, to support employment for it's own sake.
European countries have tried the socialist plan and you can see where they are now (we've also tried it to a lesser extent, and we're next). Or perhaps you aren't well informed about what's going on in Europe but they are having problems with their industries, their banks and their governments - every hand in the public trough is not a sustainable model for a society.
You say things that make sense but don't bother to think out the next step of your logic. Yes, their cost of living is WAY LESS than ours is - but why? It's because their standards of living are way below ours. An American in poverty is still significantly better off than a middle-class Indonesian. Why do you have a right to that and not the person in Indonesia? Being born an American, you've already won the ovarian lottery - the fact that globalization has eroded the value of that lottery ticket is not the person in Indonesia's fault - or the capitalist who moved your job there - it's yours.
The right doesn't have the answers either and truthfully, I think the way religious zealots have co-opted the right in America is scary and can only lead to problems. I don't have the answers either, technology has increasingly made assumptions of governance, economic growth and wealth distribution harder to manage for our traditional institutions. OWS should be about reexamining the assumptions that underpin society - not about resorting to ideas about reliance on the state that have already been examined and known to fail.
Socialists and Keynesians always claim - it'll work next time, we just need to do it BIGGER. It just doesn't work - let's move on to new and better ideas.
"..the idea that underlies his thinking leads to theft from the productive sectors of society to the unproductive."
Oil is the major reason for high productivity in the US and other developed nations. Take out oil, and you will see every able human will have a job to do.
Definitely correct - I also believe in the concept of peak oil (you don't even need peak oil, just non-exponential growth of oil production). Of course, take out oil and we'd all be back to doing backbreaking labor on the farm - not necessarily appealing but completely possible.
So until the time oil runs out, we will need to have socialist ideas to provide jobs to the unemployed. The private sector won't do it as they see no incentive to hire more because of high productivity due to Information technology, Computers and of course oil.
I would also argue that rich have made all this money due to high productivity, which means they made enormous wealth due to oil. So either you end oil or tax the rich and redistribute the wealth to the poor and the needy.
In other words, you need some sort of tweaking to correct a known but hard to eliminate problem which is poverty and unemployment.
If you want creative destruction within compaines, then you should have told the government not to bail our Wall st or General Motors! If they would have been allowed to go bankrupt we may not be where we are today. Yes they would have lost jobs, but then Ford(who didnt take buyout) and others would have had more demand, therefore adding jobs! Its the natural succession of things, but our government thought they should buy them out. If they would have failed, then it would have been a learning experience for the others and everyone involved. It always gets worse before it gets better and the government had no right to step into something was not thier concern.
tdingus - you hit the nail on the head - the bail out of those companies was to preserve jobs. Let the banks go, let GM go. The ones that weren't run so poorly would have survived and rebuilt from there.
I'm also for the separation of commercial and proprietary banking from Glass-Steagall.
You do understand that the people on OWS are generally against the policies that you and I agree with - they want to increasingly use government as a tool to prop these companies up (socialism).
You keep pushing a straw man, generalizing your own false premise on the whole movement.
$7 an hour doesn't buy much here, while it buys a lot more in Indonesia. So, telling people they should be happy working for $7 an hour here is bullshit. That's my point. If companies are operating here, then they need to start paying people living wages..... not ones that keep them in poverty.
http://occupywallst.org/article/aft-fully-endorses-occupy-wall-street/#comment-29404
Swiss: wages are not $7.00 per hour in Indonesia. Your comment makes no sense.
it does if you follow the thread.
Thank you.
See what I mean about the importance of challenging? :)
Ha ha. Just kidding.
You're welcome.
Yep!
Who are you talking to?
The comment started with awesomerobot. I REPLIED. I was a server for most of my 20's.
Part of the problem, much?
If your name is FreeMarkets, are you for ending the Federal Reserve?
To be honest I'm not sure. Probably.
I totally agree with you. It is your right to hire as it is their right to accept or decline the position. But I also agree with OP, unions are needed under certain conditions. But definitely not all. Also, I did get the feeling that OP doesn't see much good in the world, and this is something that unions have no control over.
I'm OK with unions - I'm not OK with forced participation in unions or unions using violence to prevent employers from hiring "scabs" to replace them. If you have skills that are valuable and you join with others to create negotiation leverage, more power to you. If you find out your skills really aren't that valuable and 100 people get in line to replace you - well, tough luck.
People are not commodities. People have a life. People have human necessities. You can't rent the labor capacity of a human being just like you rent a donkey to pull a plow. Labor relations are not just a trade contract. It can't be this way.
Are you saying that just because you are a person that you deserve to work? Work is something earned by willingness to become educated, experience, and ethics. To say that people aren't commodities is to say that you have a deep sense of entitlement. We deserve nothing we haven't earned. I will sell myself as labor to the highest bidder that will have me. We don't live in Star Trek yet, we still have money and not all things are equal.
If you say people don't deserve to be given jobs and have to earn them, then I say that companies don't deserve to have me there and have to earn me. Your idea of employer-employee relations is so old school and doesn't work. It's the idea that people owe everything to their employers, but the employer doesn't owe the employees shit and don'tt have to treat them right.
Good point Swiss
Wow - you are so delusional it's almost funny (if it didn't represent the sad state of thought on the left). Companies that "don't deserve to have you" don't hire you - and that leads to your unemployment. It's a market - your labor versus their capital (money is capital, in case you were unaware). That's fine if you want to not buy into the economic system but you can't have it both ways. You can't say companies "don't deserve you" and then expect to be given the same capital as people who are willing to give the companies what they want in terms of labor.
I feel sorry for your husband (or future husband).
You are too sad to argue against except for the hilarity of the simplicity of your thinking.
You are delusional in thinking that the economy can only function as it does presently. Movements like this are about change. I see you profess to want change throughout the thread, but then just heap scorn and abuse on others.
You can't have it both ways. Naysayers don't generate change.
Do not side with the Dems or Repubs. Unions or any other mainstream org. This will only splinter the revolution. This should be it's own identity. People from all walks of life are ready to protest against the corrupt system. Don't throw a wet blanket on the fire by siding with any political entity. This is the peoples revolution.
Agreed.
The only way a union should be run.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syndicalism
Once we eliminate union hierarchy we will have corruption free unions.
um hey, just sayin. you aren't accomplishing anything by doing all this bull. all you're doing is complaining and making everyone else look bad. o, and you're also getting arrested. alot. and nothing is really changing. everyone is really jsut laughing at you. i've had to drop out of school twice to get a job. and Ive lost many jobs, and had to move to a completely different state just to find work. i have no health insurance and drive a 14 year old car with almost three hundred thousand miles on it that my dad gave to me right before he died from cancer that killed him slowly. my step dad who raised me is a pastor that got laid off by the mega church that told him he was irreplaceable.
but hey, guess what, all of us have kept moving on. changing who we are and how we respond to things by proactively moving forward and doing what we can. and we sure as hell didn't just say fuck it and go sit in front of a big building saying "boo hoo look at my hippie asss waaaahhhhhhhh" we changed things. we changed our world. i doubt we can change everyone's. ever. but I have just been hired on full time with insuance. and my step dad works full time now doing physicall work that he shouldn't have to do, I agree, seeing as he's almost 50. but he doesn't complain, and neither do i. know why? because we can provide for those we love. and we have just enough of what we need, which matters more than sitting in front of a building complaining about it, we did something. and I don't care how you slice it, protesting gets fuckin NOWHERE. well, unless your goal is to get arrested.
Well said
This is absurd. Occupy should reject these hypocrytical moneygrabbers and stay true to its roots. The AFT is closer to the 1% than it is to the 99%
I'd like to start by saying I'm an employee of the big banks, 30, student loans out the wazoo, etc. We're all frustrated, we all want to get ahead and pursue our dreams, that's what makes us human. But this wealth re-distribution thing? Ok you take all the 1%'s money, redistribute it, boom problem solved right? Hey guys, it's still Capitalism, the 1% who was smart enough to get to be the 1% will get back to that point, while a certain percentage of our society will then again fall behind because they're flawed as people. That cycle could repeat itself over and over if you wanted it to. So lets say we oust the 1% entirely! Ok so now part of the 99% moves up to the 1% to occupy their previous positions, and I'll be damned, the cycle's repeating itself again. I hate to sound cynical, but you're not going to protest your way into "the good life." You're going to have to work your ass off, plan accordingly, live below your means, and hope for the best, just like the 1% already has. Sorry folks but that's how the world works. The 99% is unfit to rule themselves (as evidenced by the streams of pointless rhetoric on this site) so there you have the 1%. It's call the Iron Law of Oligarchy, and I dont like it anymore than anyone else, but that's life. People have all the excuses in the world for why their own house of cards crumble at the same time of being masters of deflection on why it's someone else's fault. Sure it's easier to point the finger, but looking in the mirror takes someone far stronger. Put away the bongos and wake up to the real
I'd like to start by saying I'm an employee of the big banks, 30, student loans out the wazoo, etc. We're all frustrated, we all want to get ahead and pursue our dreams, that's what makes us human. But this wealth re-distribution thing? Ok you take all the 1%'s money, redistribute it, boom problem solved right? Hey guys, it's still Capitalism, the 1% who was smart enough to get to be the 1% will get back to that point, while a certain percentage of our society will then again fall behind because they're flawed as people. That cycle could repeat itself over and over if you wanted it to. So lets say we oust the 1% entirely! Ok so now part of the 99% moves up to the 1% to occupy their previous positions, and I'll be damned, the cycle's repeating itself again. I hate to sound cynical, but you're not going to protest your way into "the good life." You're going to have to work your ass off, plan accordingly, live below your means, and hope for the best, just like the 1% already has. Sorry folks but that's how the world works. The 99% is unfit to rule themselves (as evidenced by the streams of pointless rhetoric on this site) so there you have the 1%. It's call the Iron Law of Oligarchy, and I dont like it anymore than anyone else, but that's life. People have all the excuses in the world for why their own house of cards crumble at the same time of being masters of deflection on why it's someone else's fault. Sure it's easier to point the finger, but looking in the mirror takes someone far stronger. Put away the bongos and wake up to the real
Hoorah! I come from a long line of teachers.Unionize teachers. My yougest daughter continues this great tradition of Nation Builders in my family.Without teachers,you have no great nation.
I am amased at how Occupy works. Would like to have your input on the movement to understand it better by answering 10 questions. http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/Q3NF7QB Please, take some time for it and I am happy to share the results. Thank you!
youtube zeitgeist: addendum for everyone to see. It will explain much of why this is happening in our lives and in the lives of people around the world.
Politicians need better rules to follow to prevent lobbying! We tax payers should also fund important elections, so the best person wins and not the one with the most money!!! The movement needs at least these 2 demands!!! Politicians need to be fair and keep it BALANCED for all and not start class warfare! Unlikely but they all need fired so we can start over, but next time they work for everyone and not favor one group over another. Write it down and pass the word!!!
This is what I want first then I want the Politicians to fix it! Plane and simple!
I am amased at how Occupy works. Would like to have your input on the movement to understaqnd it better. It’s only couple of minutes to answer 10 questions. I only collect 100 answers and happy to send results if you are interested. Please, take some time for it: Thank you! http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/Q3NF7QB http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/Q3NF7QB
like wow man...did we go through time machine? is it like 1967 again? down with the establishment. down with the man. (oh, where do i pick up my welfare check?)
why wall street? why not professional athletes? or rock stars? they all make more than the average person on wall street? want a good cause then go after the teachers unions, they're suking the life (and budgets) out of our school systems. contracts with guaranteed steps and raises are killing the quality of education, not to mention property taxes and property values. Fire all the teachers and hire younger ones with more energy and desire.
All those of you who camp out in the wind and rain and cold...you are heroes. Lets keep showing the pundits and naysayers that we are not just a flash in the pan. We will remain, we will occupy this city!!! I think we should make a request to the media and general public, that they put up information (phone numbers, emails, addresses, form letters, petitions and websites) of our local/regional elected officials and publish that we are asking for specific reforms regarding the creation of an equitable tax structure, anti corruption laws and corporate regulation. If we have specific demands attached with specific instructions on how members of the general public can get involved in this process (even from home...without coming down and protesting, which is honestly what most of the 99% will be willing to do).We need to be the change that we would like to see in the world, and we need to remind the public sitting at home, of this notion. If we outline some very specific, yet broadly inclusive actions (by this i mean, no "radical" demands for abolishing the DEA or saving the whales....or whatever other causes may also seem important to many of the factions within our movement. We need to reform our nation one thing at a time...one by one, checking things off our list of grievances and then moving on to our next demand. To do this most effectively we should start with demands that include the most members of our movement as possible...ie; something to address the Wealth Gap, Corporate Accountability or Tax reform. Once one demand has been met we will have far more credibility in the eyes of the public, not to mention in the eyes of the 1% and we will make some tangible progress, while building exponential momentum. ), we will make real progress. We will have people willing to be arrested en mass and engage in civil disobedience in an entirely new and even bigger way than they are currently) I think the sooner we have some basic demands and calls to action (like the facebook organized plan to switch enrollment from the "big banks" and to join a local credit union this week) then the larger this movement will get. people are simply apathetic and overwhelmed as a whole. We need to empower the 99% and create an outline for real, measurable, social change. I am willing to participate in any peaceful civil disobedience for this purpose and would love to see others give me some input on this idea. Give the occupiers a productive reason to get arrested hehe. If you agree with my ideas, please try and suggest this course of action to others so we can discus it at the GA soon. Thanks for listening, Alex
Growing up, most of us were taught that if we wanted to change things in America, we could do it at the ballot box. Well, today large numbers of Americans are realizing that both major political parties have been bought and paid for. http://youtu.be/p3Ven1km2y4
I'd like to put the labor unions to good use, by organizing a "day without the 99%". Remember a while ago when groups organized the "day without immigrants"? Let's tweak that a little, and have everyone in Manhattan who makes less than $380,000/year (the 99%) stay home for a day. The rich fucks think they run things--I say let them have a day to try it all by themselves and see how they do. (shrug) That will do two important things for us: (1) demonstrate concretely and clearly that WE are the ones who make this society function, not the rich fucks, and (2) show clearly whether the much-vaunted union support is for real, or just empty talk. Let's see if they'll fish, or just cut bait.
I think its very clear that the majority of us Are against this endorsement. And since this is a leaderless movement, the majority should rule & therefore ties should be cut.
I wanted to share this with the group.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcePaR1LSVA
Enjoy.
You cannot stand against crony capitalism unless you also stand against crony unionism. Expand minimum wage to include minimums based on profession and cost of living in metro statistical area. Eliminate compulsory union membership. Quit picking the pockets of unrepresented workers to pay for union fatcats, most of whom work for government these days. Form a labor party in which membership is voluntary, and which advocates for all the workers--not just the dues payers.
Less than 7% of all US jobs in the private sector are unionized. Big business has spent 30 years destroying unions and using them as the red herring for our problems.
The real problem is the 30 years of massive wealth redistribution that has gone on with the ever disappearing marginal tax rate. In the 1950's the highest marginal tax rate was 90% and today it is 36% percent. And with the disappearing marginal tax rate, so went the disincentive against paying out all of the corporate profits to the executives at the top and shareholders.
Middle class salaries have stagnated for 30 years while executive salaries have ballooned 256%. The top 10% now controls 70% of our entire nation's wealth and the bottom 50% now controls 2% of our entire nation's wealth.
In 1965, the executive to worker pay was 24:1. Today executive to worker pay is 265:1. Unions are not the problem. The loss of unions and the marginal tax rate are the problem.
So are you guys going to be independent or just be the grass roots arm of these unions in bed with Bankster shill Obama?
So are you guys going to be independent and really about changing the system or just the grass roots arm of the Obama supporting unions?
You all are great! I feel the only way we can get back on safe financial footing again is to close the Enron Loophole for oil speculators and bring back The Glass-Steagall Act of 1933, which prevented the current banking and insurance scams/loopholes. After all, it worked great until late 90's when Congress threw it out. Since then, like prior to 1933, we are experiencing what our country went though then, total Wall Street greed with no penalties, its all legal now...Thanks to the architects of our new system in 1999, President Clinton and Senator Gramm. Cheers to all that are involved! Jim
Why we need Glass-Steagall to be reinstated:
http://www.investopedia.com/articles/03/071603.asp#axzz1aPEc3wXj http://www.counterpunch.org/2008/09/19/shattering-the-glass-steagall-act/
Why are oil prices high?
http://www.investopedia.com/articles/03/071603.asp#axzz1aPEc3wXj http://www.counterpunch.org/2008/09/19/shattering-the-glass-steagall-act/
I fully support the movement,but wouldn't a message such as NO INCUMBENTS being chanted enmasse, do more to scare Wall Street and Congress than having no real message..435 members of the House are up for reelection next year. Let us relieve them of their free ride..Imagine the shockwaves it would create..Just a thought.....Mike
Dear Ivan & William,
I believe you make too much money to be considered an OWS supporter. Your "profession" doesn't really lend itself to a movement that purports to despise corruption.
Your Friend, MikeInOhio
Damn, every asshole group wants to jump on the band wagon...next it will be Aliens from space. The hell with these groups...they are part of the problem not the solution.
Why dont we protest the people that gave the bankers our money. Lets go to the Whitehouse. Lets go to show Nancy Peloci that we dont appreciate her, or the Congress she was in charge of, for giving our money away to the 1% Corporate elites. Lets stop the billions of dollars from going to campaign donor's fake energy businesses.
The American Federation of Teachers financed Obama’s 2008 campaign to the tune of $1.9 million and has also recently offered its strong support for Obama’s “Jobs Plan,” which critics have pointed out will lead to higher taxes not for the super-rich, but for middle class Americans.
The United Federation of Teachers sub-chapter of the AFT, which has also publicly backed the Occupy Wall Street protests, was rewarded for their parent organization’s support for Obama when the administration made the union representing New York City’s public school teachers the largest beneficiary of the notorious Obamacare waiver.
As we previously documented, the Occupy Wall Street website has openly embraced the likes of MoveOn.org, AFL-CIO, and SEIU, all of whom financially backed Obama’s 2008 presidential campaign and have supported his bid for re-election in 2012.
Of course, the irony of ‘Occupy Wall Street’ leaders seeking alliances with Obama campaign front groups is the fact that Obama himself is the ultimate creature of Wall Street. His 2008 campaign was financed by Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan, Citigroup and Morgan Stanley. Obama is even more reliant on Wall Street for his 2012 campaign and his cabinet is stuffed with former Wall Street insiders.
Users of the OccupyWallSt.com website flooded the page on which the announcement appeared with comments, many expressing discomfort that the leaders of this “leaderless” movement were forming bonds with outfits who have aggressively supported the Wall Street-financed Obama administration.
Look at the blog....www.thebigturds.com.....students in school need to read this info
I read this as "ATF" and was like "woo I can bring my AR without anyone throwing a hissy fit".
Same union that spent 1.9 million on the Obama campaign, i wish i went to a charter school. I hope the movement does not get high jacked.
If you want to see a simply excellent documentary about the American school system "Waiting for Superman" is at the top the list.
Almost forgot, i'm very sure Ron Paul started this :-)
We the Citizens, of the United States of America, are no longer represented by the officials who were elected to represent us. The cause of this lack of representation stems from our elected officials being swayed in their decisions by contributions from entities who do not represent the will of the masses.
Signed,
American Citizens
We the Citizens, of the United States of America, are no longer represented by the officials who were elected to represent us. The cause of this lack of representation stems from our elected officials being swayed in their decisions by contributions from entities who do not represent the will of the masses.
Signed,
American Citizens
Abraham Lincoln once said that it was labor power that mattered in a nation of people and not the fruits of it (capital). Who would I be to argue with such a great man? When Nixon opened the doorway to China for the wealthiest Americans at that time (Wall Street) to begin investing the profits they were making here over there in the sweat and slave labor shops of that nation (to maximize profits) this signalled the beginning of the end of our way of life and our national sovereignty. By the time Reagan came to power much of our upper middle class (the small business owners) had begun to follow suit with the wealthiest of the capitalists here by abandoning their workers (the local economy) preferring out of greed to invest their profits in Wall Street (China and India) instead. Bush Jr. openly declared his anti-American sentiments and his betrayal of the American people when he stood in front of a collection of the wealthiest of the capitalists and declared them to be his only "base". He was worse than Nixon in his betrayal of the American citizenry. These protesters you see today are only the beginning. This is a time when the last 50 years of serious mistakes in American history will be undone one way or the other. What you see lately is an entire generation of American citizenry becoming aware and alert to the excesses and abuses that have been heaped on them for decades now by a small handful of pernicious anarchist capitalists here and around the world. This that you see just lately is the true awakening of the American people. God bless them, keep them and speed them on their way. It is time for the sleeping giant to awaken once again in history.
Abraham Lincoln once said that it was labor power that mattered in a nation of people and not the fruits of it (capital). Who would I be to argue with such a great man? When Nixon opened the doorway to China for the wealthiest Americans at that time (Wall Street) to begin investing the profits they were making here over there in the sweat and slave labor shops of that nation (to maximize profits) this signalled the beginning of the end of our way of life and our national sovereignty. By the time Reagan came to power much of our upper middle class (the small business owners) had begun to follow suit with the wealthiest of the capitalists here by abandoning their workers (the local economy) preferring out of greed to invest their profits in Wall Street (China and India) instead. Bush Jr. openly declared his anti-American sentiments and his betrayal of the American people when he stood in front of a collection of the wealthiest of the capitalists and declared them to be his only "base". He was worse than Nixon in his betrayal of the American citizenry. These protesters you see today are only the beginning. This is a time when the last 50 years of serious mistakes in American history will be undone one way or the other. What you see lately is an entire generation of American citizenry becoming aware and alert to the excesses and abuses that have been heaped on them for decades now by a small handful of pernicious anarchist capitalists here and around the world. This that you see just lately is the true awakening of the American people. God bless them, keep them and speed them on their way. It is time for the sleeping giant to awaken once again in history.
why wall street? why not professional athletes? or rock stars? they all make more than the average person on wall street? want a good cause then go after the teachers unions, they're suking the life (and budgets) out of our school systems. contracts with guaranteed steps and raises are killing the quality of education, not to mention property taxes and property values. Fire all the teachers and hire younger ones with more energy and desire.
Please, please, please, don't allow the unions to hijack the message and the concept of americans coming together to find solutions to our problems. Modern unions, do not care about the people, nor the individuals freedom. They serve their masters in government, and business. Separate union workers from union management, or this movement is doomed.
It is time to bring American jobs back from China and save the world economy (or rather the economy of European countries like Spain, Italty, Portugal, Greece etc) from total ruin, all for the reason of "globalisation" to the extreme or corporate greed for more profits (the corporate leaders claim that they have to shift out to China to survive?). You can't just rely on service industries to fuel the economy.
The Chinese will never devalue their yuan currency - they are just buying time. Go and vote for Donald Trump, who promised to slap 25% import tariffs on China's import to USA and stop the American's business lobbyists who are pro-China.
It is time to bring American jobs back from China and save the world economy (or rather the economy of European countries like Spain, Italty, Portugal, Greece etc) from total ruin, all for the reason of "globalisation" to the extreme or corporate greed for more profits (the corporate leaders claim that they have to shift out to China to survive?). You can't just rely on service industries to fuel the economy.
The Chinese will never devalue their yuan currency - they are just buying time. Go and vote for Donald Trump, who promised to slap 25% import tariffs on China's import to USA and stop the American's business lobbyists who are pro-China.
I love this revolution, but we're blind if we do not, in the US, address the role of closed shop Teacher's Unions being the number one contributor to our failing educational system--lemon dances and rubber rooms need to be eliminated.
We're unable to pay good teacher's more and ending tenure is not even negotiable, but until we address the quality of education of all our children and protect their right/liberty over teacher's liberties, we will not begin to resolve the issue of education, and without a well educated populous, democracy is truly in danger...
I don't know why people can't see that Teacher's unions being the #1 contributors to all our elected officials have been just as corrupt in holding up real reform as corporations who have recently been told that money is free speech.
We cannot turn a blind eye to the role Teacher's unions have played in holding our children back. In fact, if nothing else works, I propose that parents form their own national union in the interest of their children and start contributing more than the Teacher's union to campaigns. Somethings got to give and someone has to be a voice for our children.
teachers are part of the problem. it is NOT good to have an endorsemnet from them.
teachers are part of the problem. it is NOT good to have an endorsemnet from them.
I am the g.g.g.g.granddaughter of James Hammet, one of the six leaders sentenced to Australia by ship for 7 years convict in 1934. They were convicted for starting the first worker's "friendly community" to support the farmers who were being treated like slaves by the merchants. Progressively their wages reduced from 10 shillings progressively to 6 shillings. This group of 6 men is still celebrated in an annual festival at the location of the movement in Tolpuddle, Dorset UK. I am proud to see the unions still standing by the community to support what is fair and just.
the blind leading (endorsing) the blind
The teachers union represent teachers at the expense of students and our education system is a miserable failure-just like General Motors was. There is not better evidence of this than the extraordinarily high unemploymet rate of young people, especially minorities. They have every right to protest but they should be protesting against the schools that failed to prepare them for the future. It is a tragedy that millions of young people believe that employers are the problem and not their lack of skills.
The teachers union represent teachers at the expense of students and our education system is a miserable failure-just like General Motors was. There is not better evidence of this than the extraordinarily high unemploymet rate of young people, especially minorities. They have every right to protest but they should be protesting against the schools that failed to prepare them for the future. It is a tragedy that millions of young people believe that employers are the problem and not their lack of skills.
The teachers union represent teachers at the expense of students and our education system is a miserable failure-just like General Motors was. There is not better evidence of this than the extraordinarily high unemploymet rate of young people, especially minorities. They have every right to protest but they should be protesting against the schools that failed to prepare them for the future. It is a tragedy that millions of young people believe that employers are the problem and not their lack of skills.
The teachers union represent teachers at the expense of students and our education system is a miserable failure-just like General Motors was. There is not better evidence of this than the extraordinarily high unemploymet rate of young people, especially minorities. They have every right to protest but they should be protesting against the schools that failed to prepare them for the future. It is a tragedy that millions of young people believe that employers are the problem and not their lack of skills.
Why not Washington and the White House? Tha't's where it starts. William M Daley, Chief of Staff, is from at JPMorgan Chase, where he was paid $5 million a year to supervise the Washington lobbying efforts. Obama’s nominee for Secretary of Commence is Jeffery R. Immelt, GE's Chairman and Chief Executive Officer of CEO. GE is still receiving billions in bail out, doesn’t pay taxes and 80% of their jobs overseas.
SAY THIS AND SAY THIS OUTLOUD AND WITH YOUR HEARTS!!! AMEN
Dear Lord Jesus Come into my heart forgive me of my sins I believe you died for me and that God raised you from the dead. Be Lord of my life. Guide me. Keep me in your protection. I love you Jesus..
In Jesus' name Amen
SAY THIS AND SAY THIS OUTLOUD AND WITH YOUR HEARTS!!! AMEN
Dear Lord Jesus Come into my heart forgive me of my sins I believe you died for me and that God raised you from the dead. Be Lord of my life. Guide me. Keep me in your protection. I love you Jesus..
In Jesus' name Amen
OUR nation has turned away from God, the BASIS in which this country was founded on... Why would He protect us? Jesus IS THE WAY, THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE.. Nowadays its almost a crime to mention HIS Holy name... When we ask ourselves, our neighbors why is this happening, read ISA 9:10... We MUST turn back to the Lord, OUR SAVIOR... if you dont think you need to then the enemy, the deceiver has got you lying to yourself... We ARE IN the last days.. Jesus said to preach that the kingdom of heaven is near.. and it is... *I urge you all to turn to the Lord and the Word of God.. If one, just one more person did and payed that forward we would give God room to move... Its our choices in life that keeps us out of the will of God for our lives.. GET BACK INTO IT.... The word of the Lord does NOT return void... God has NOT TURNED FROM US.. WE AS A NATION, AS FAMILIES HAVE TURNED FROM HIM... THINGS, ALL THINGS GO WRONG, MARRIAGE, FRIENDSHIP, problems at work because WE ARE NOT LIVING ACCORDING TO THE WORD.. HIS WORD.. THEN WE TURN AROUND AND BLAME HIM BECASUE WE MADE A CHOICE TO LIVE OUTSIDE THE MOST BASIC, MOST SIMPLE OF HIS INSTRUCTIONS.. JESUS' GREATEST COMMANDMENT, (not suggestion) was to LOVE each other as I have loved you and LOVE thy neighbor..... GIVE PRAISE TO GOD, PRAISE TO JESUS AND THE HOLY SPIRIT.. When was the last time you thanked the Lord or asked Him, is this what I should do?? If the people in our government were in the will of God for their lives we wouldnt be where we are today.. The bible says WE ARE GODS MASTERPIECE.. HE CREATED THIS WORLD FOR US, GAVE US HIS ONLY SON SO WE COULD HAVE SALVATION AND THIS IS HOW WE REPAY HIM??
OUR nation has turned away from God, the BASIS in which this country was founded on... Why would He protect us? Jesus IS THE WAY, THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE.. Nowadays its almost a crime to mention HIS Holy name... When we ask ourselves, our neighbors why is this happening, read ISA 9:10... We MUST turn back to the Lord, OUR SAVIOR... if you dont think you need to then the enemy, the deceiver has got you lying to yourself... We ARE IN the last days.. Jesus said to preach that the kingdom of heaven is near.. and it is... *I urge you all to turn to the Lord and the Word of God.. If one, just one more person did and payed that forward we would give God room to move... Its our choices in life that keeps us out of the will of God for our lives.. GET BACK INTO IT.... The word of the Lord does NOT return void... God has NOT TURNED FROM US.. WE AS A NATION, AS FAMILIES HAVE TURNED FROM HIM... THINGS, ALL THINGS GO WRONG, MARRIAGE, FRIENDSHIP, problems at work because WE ARE NOT LIVING ACCORDING TO THE WORD.. HIS WORD.. THEN WE TURN AROUND AND BLAME HIM BECASUE WE MADE A CHOICE TO LIVE OUTSIDE THE MOST BASIC, MOST SIMPLE OF HIS INSTRUCTIONS.. JESUS' GREATEST COMMANDMENT, (not suggestion) was to LOVE each other as I have loved you and LOVE thy neighbor..... GIVE PRAISE TO GOD, PRAISE TO JESUS AND THE HOLY SPIRIT.. When was the last time you thanked the Lord or asked Him, is this what I should do?? If the people in our government were in the will of God for their lives we wouldnt be where we are today.. The bible says WE ARE GODS MASTERPIECE.. HE CREATED THIS WORLD FOR US, GAVE US HIS ONLY SON SO WE COULD HAVE SALVATION AND THIS IS HOW WE REPAY HIM??
http://occupywallst.org/forum/a-rally-cry-to-occupy-join-in-once-voice/
Ann Coulter is an Alien, say's Lou Dobbs. Read this: http://shauncostello.wordpress.com/2011/09/26/ann-coulter-is-an-alien/
Ann Coulter is an Alien, say's Lou Dobbs. Read this: http://shauncostello.wordpress.com/2011/09/26/ann-coulter-is-an-alien/
This is what our founders think about all this corruption.
That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness
I really understand the frustration.. I really do... I've been out of work for some time...
However the economy is not a zero-sum game...
To be successful and prosperous yourself.. you do not need to tear someone else down... There are amazing opportunities in America that don't exist any where else in the world..
Others have been frustrated with the excesses of Capitalism (and of Socialism)... GK Chesterton put it succinctly... "The answer to unemployment is not employment .. it is independence..."
Chesterton and others outlined "Distributism"... not redistribution.. but rather that the means to production should (land, companies) would be owned by those closest to it.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distributism
Socialism errs on the side of the community.. .Capitalism over-emphasizes the individual... Distributism emphasizes the family... It's probably somewhere half way between the two
Pope Leo XIII outlined this view in the late 19th century about a year after Marx published his manifesto...
Consider too what the economy would look like today if there were 50 million more people... That's how many people are "missing" since Roe v Wade.. about 1/3 of the kids (and now adults) that should be here are missing.. They would be buying things, working, paying taxes, paying into social security, etc... John Paul 2 said that "a country that kills its children is a country without hope..."
Compare your activities to 40 days for life... http://www.40daysforlife.com/about.cfm
My dad is a member of "the greatest generation".. a veteran of WWII and Korea... He worked for 30+ years silently praying outside abortion clinics... He still gets Christmas cards from kids he helped save... and their moms..
I can't join you if you are set on anarchy and tearing down wall street or defecating on police cars.. but if I were to see some posters of Chesterton... Pope Leo XIII, Dorothy Day... or silent witness with Rosaries.. I'm right there with you!
Fr. Peyton's 1961 Rosary Rally in San Francisco had as many people as Woodstock! He was the one who coined the phrase " the family that prays together stays together..." http://www.catholic-sf.org/news_select.php?newsid=22&id=58936
Some great info is here: http://distributistreview.com/mag/2011/08/g-k-chestertons-distributism/
This is what our founders think about all this corruption.
That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness
This is what our founders think about all this corruption.
That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness
I read much of why we fight, the truth of this fight, and even how to organize for this fight by reading “The Book of Jack” by Gandesbery. I hope that is blessed, I hope you have it with you. I plan to buy 10 copies to hand out in my home town. May God Blass you all for being so brave and him for writing how to do it. It’s funny how the socialist big money machine is attempting to ignore you, me, us. You know that CNN and other owned mouth pieces of the old money that controls us tries so hard not to talk about us in a positive way. Their fake news spewed out over the nation is set against us. Yes against America at large.
They don’t like to admit that the Tea Party, The Occupation of Wall street, the support of Ron Paul over their socialist puppet choices are all linked. We the people, the pissed off, fed up, and fully awake now people. It’s the 99% finally taking off the blinders and the chains. God Bless You. America never mind we begin to see them for who they are. Focus on change and move only forward. Remain invested in the futures of OUR tomorrow. Fighting now spares dying later. May God Bless Your Efforts/Lives!!!!!
We need to get people in our political system who represent us, not who are bought and placed as the two choices we have to choose from. Shouldnt we in each of our own collective groups choose the best people we know and nominate them ourselves? Those who in those groups we know as having to have been selfless and of the most solid moral characters? If we do that from community by community, region by region, state by state, we can put the best of those we know and can vouch for in those highest positions of power versus those who have already been bought well before our votes are placed.
Public Education has been fantastic and constantly improving over the last 30 years... The AFT has done a fantastic job of elevating the the US education system to one that is envied and aspired to by nations around the world.
I think it's wonderful that they support the end result of their educational efforts.
The system created for us is nothing more than the most ingenous pyramid scheme ever created. Let's each of us one by one tear the pyramid down shall we?
Watch Zeitgeist Addendum on YouTube and pass it on to your family and friends! It speaks to a much better world we can create versus the one that has been created for us.
We'll start seeing an acceleration of the criminal puppet governments plans, they are starting to get a little nervous as the people around the world are waking up to what their really doing. To hell with the global plutocracy they call the NWO, we the people do have a say in the type of society we want to live in. We do not want to live under the global dictatorship of the elite wealthy. Shortage of money my #$%$ there's more money in the system now than anytime in history, it is just accumulated in the hands of a few, that is the problem.
Reply
"I see in the near future a crisis approaching that unnerves me and causes me to tremble for the safety of my country. Corporations have been enthroned and an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money power of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working on the prejudices of the people until all wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the republic is destroyed". (Abraham Lincoln, in a letter to Col. William F. Elkins, dated November 21, 1864, The Lincoln Encyclopedia [1950])
Occupy Wall Street and Ron Paul are different but together they are the only hopes for the US and the World right now. Obama must go!
http://tariganter.wordpress.com/2011/10/09/end-the-fed-and-ron-paul-political-positions/
Marching is completely ineffective in increasing the equity of working people in our world. The only effective action is to shut down the apparatus of state and business until effective negotiations occur and greater equity for working people is achieved.
The Occupy Wall Street movement indicates a tragic ignorance about the way the world works. Occupiers disparage capitalism and profit seekers, claiming that these enterprises oppress 99% of the population. They would prefer that government step in and provide “justice.” What specific kind of justice is expected? Should the government take from one group and redistribute to another? This is called communism, and we have learned it doesn’t work too well. Or maybe another option is for the government to provide more “stimulus” and federal jobs. The problem here is that the government does not have any of its own money. The funding for everything government does comes from taxes. The only real creator of economic value is capitalism. It provides the means for people to work hard, be creative, and succeed. If not capitalism, what else? Anything else is magic and wishful thinking.
America Citizens Must Stand Shoulder to Shoulder Together!!!
Because all the Police are Shoulder to Shoulder and will take you to Jail for doing nothing!!!
Thank you for your time!!!
We all fully endorse occupy wallstreet!
The biggest place where change can come the fastest is geeting the Banks and Companies like Walmart and its suppliers to stop letting the Chinese to "fix" the value of its currency. At market rates most people say the chinese Yuan at about $1.5 to instead of the "fixed" rate of about 6 to 1. This would make Chinese products about 4 times more expensive. In other words, the Chinese are intentionaly selling products cheaper than market. The banks benefit from this, (CitiCorp, JPMorganChase, Bank of America are the world's biggest currrency market makers) and so do WalMart, home Depot, GE, and so on. Stopping this practice is an easy political fix and would create thousands of US jobs.
SO what happens when those of us in the so-called 99% group find a way to climb the financial ladder ad then we become among the 1% group? then what? should we give it all back? should we lose because we win? get real people life is a competiton, get off your butts and work your way into the 1% ers and stop the friggen whining. why wall street? why not professional athletes? or rock stars? they all make more than the average person on wall street? want a good cause then go after the teachers unions, they're suking the life (and budgets) out of our school systems. contracts with guaranteed steps and raises are killing the quality of education, not to mention property taxes and property values. Fire all the teachers and hire younger ones with more energy and desire.
The biggest place where change can come the fastest is geeting the Banks and Companies like Walmart and its suppliers to stop letting the Chinese to "fix" the value of its currency. At market rates most people say the chinese Yuan at about $1.5 to instead of the "fixed" rate of about 6 to 1. This would make Chinese products about 4 times more expensive. In other words, the Chinese are intentionaly selling products cheaper than market. The banks benefit from this, (CitiCorp, JPMorganChase, Bank of America are the world's biggest currrency market makers) and so do WalMart, home Depot, GE, and so on. Stopping this practice is an easy political fix and would create thousands of US jobs.
The expanded development of the common stock tended to dilute the effectiveness of the unions by developing a group of people with a vested interest the promotion of big business and industry. Although this group of people had to pay for the right to belong to the group and only received a small pittance for the use of their money, they became a support group for the development and expansion of these businesses and industries. As more people became vested in the stock market the antagonism toward unions increased. As long as people see the stock market in a positive light, unions will continue to decline.
The expanded development of the common stock tended to dilute the effectiveness of the unions by developing a group of people with a vested interest the promotion of big business and industry. Although this group of people had to pay for the right to belong to the group and only received a small pittance for the use of their money, they became a support group for the development and expansion of these businesses and industries. As more people became vested in the stock market the antagonism toward unions increased. As long as people see the stock market in a positive light, unions will continue to decline.
During the 1950's and later, a period of prosperity, the top income tax rate was 91%. This was a period of solid economic gains for middle-class Americans. Today not a single one of our politicians is courageous enough to acknowledge and highlight this fact while we are at the same time burdened with regressive taxation.
Anti Flag music today..?
I support unions.....I do not get caught up with anti flag, anti country rhetoric...
I attended the rally on Wednesday. It felt like the protests I participated in, during the late 60's and early 70's. Is anyone else sick of being nickeled and dimed to death by banks, airlines, oil companies, utilities, and educational institutions to name a few, while inflation is at 3% and there is no safe investment left to keep up with these costs? Please give me feedback and pass it along. The citizenry needs to show we're no longer going to stay quiet. Did I fail to mention the government is a bit broken
I attended the rally on Wednesday. It felt like the protests I participated in, during the late 60's and early 70's. Is anyone else sick of being nickeled and dimed to death by banks, airlines, oil companies, utilities, and educational institutions to name a few, while inflation is at 3% and there is no safe investment left to keep up with these costs? Please give me feedback and pass it along. The citizenry needs to show we're no longer going to stay quiet. Did I fail to mention the government is a bit broken
thanks! you guys are the guardians of kid's future!
The powers that be biggest fears are starting to come to life. People are starting to look at our puppet government and those who pull their strings and saying, you are the problem, instead of being at ecothers throats. Our divided government has been made this way by design, the plan was/is keep em at ecothers throat and we can do whatever we want, divide and conquer.
Thank you to the teachers union for your support. The factions of bankers and corporate robber barons along with their political codependents have to get the message that the good citizens of this country and the world are not going to stand for their exploits from this point forward. Let their day of reckoning be here and let justice and fairness prevail.
Now is a time to force the changes that will balance the scales which have been tipped for too long in the favor of those wealthy enough to skew the system of laws, taxes and wages in their favor.
why wall street? why not professional athletes? or rock stars? they all make more than the average person on wall street? want a good cause then go after the teachers unions, they're suking the life (and budgets) out of our school systems. contracts with guaranteed steps and raises are killing the quality of education, not to mention property taxes and property values. Fire all the teachers and hire younger ones with more energy and desire.
Some say our movement has no clear focus. It DOES have a focus. We ALL want a just economic system that will allow us enough jobs with enough income to have freedom instead of living in fear and in slavery slavery to the corporate ROYALS. Banks and multinational corporations are today what the king of England and his royals were at the time of the American revolution. The plantation owner kept the slave poor and in bondage. This is about FREEDOM. We want an economic system that gives the common American enough income to live FREE. Down with the corporate royals and the political puppets. We are fighting for our FREEDOM. Want it? Give us liberty or give us death? We are pissed off now. Don't tread on our freedom we are Americans and that is our core value. . Could a focus be any more clear? We will NOT be economic slaves or any other kind of slaves. We are FREE citizens of the home of the free and the brave. Bring it on!
Lady Justice! Where is Justice for 99%? Where is the Fair TAX? Where is the finance CHANGE? Stop Unfair discriminating lobbyists for the Rich and Large corporations. Stop Corporate Loop Holes. "The will of the people shall be the basis of the authority of government." We are the 99%. It is our right, our duty to protect America. FCC forgot the law? SEC where is the SIPC? What laws? The 99% organization needs a financial lawyer who would work for us. Can the best apply to represent the 99%? America is in an high emergency state. Maybe a support for the BBC. Backdown on our education? Are we giving it all up? Where is the global balance? Have we given up on LADY JUSTICE?
SO what happens when those of us in the so-called 99% group find a way to climb the financial ladder ad then we become among the 1% group? then what? should we give it all back? should we lose because we win? get real people life is a competiton, get off your butts and work your way into the 1% ers and stop the friggen whining. why wall street? why not professional athletes? or rock stars? they all make more than the average person on wall street? want a good cause then go after the teachers unions, they're suking the life (and budgets) out of our school systems. contracts with guaranteed steps and raises are killing the quality of education, not to mention property taxes and property values. Fire all the teachers and hire younger ones with more energy and desire.
Let's all pick a day to close our bank accts! And let's all just stop paying federal taxes....
From Occupy Denver members - please stop accepting the endorsement of the teacher's unions! Our current education system works hand-in-hand with industry requirements to produce malleable workers and consumers. True democracy requires that people be allowed to choose what kind of education and educational methods best suit themselves and their children. Down with the public school system and the teacher's union! Down with the university-system's corrupt control of the definition of 'education'!
Federally mandated curricula, federally-mandated standardized testing, and especially federal and state-regulated teacher training standards do not allow for a democratic diversity in pedagogical method or content. Current standards for teacher preparation require education in the federal and state-controlled college/university system with its monolithic monopoly on 'knowledge', its narrow understanding of human development and its narrow perspectives on pedagogical methods. These state-sponsored 'experts' on education are controlling curricula, pedagogical method, philosophy of education and testing on a national level. This is abhorrent and completely undemocratic. Local, grassroots options in education are affordable and do not need to be regulated by the government. Requiring education in federally-regulated universities is undemocratic. People are smart enough to choose their own teachers and the schools or institutes that provide the training/learning they desire.
Free our children and our college-age students from the federal/corporate control of the means of education! Up with true educational democracy!
Teachers have been crapped on for too long, very much by the same agenda that OWS is fighting. To join together is simply necessary.
It seems more and more likely that this movement is going to be hijacked by democratic party organizations. The unions do some good for the workers. They may have issues they want to fight for. However, that is NOT our fight. Let us not dilute our message by bringing in other agenda. Our message has to be clear - "End corporate ownership of the government" When that ownership ends, everything else including unions will also benefit from it. I was glad to see a lot of people here concerned about this movement being hijacked by the democratic party. There was even an online article about this.
http://www.benzinga.com/news/11/10/1964809/dont-let-occupy-wall-street-be-hijacked
Both parties are owned by the corporations. The two party system is projected to fool us into thinking there is a working system. Each party panders to its voter base. In the end, however, their objective is to help their financiers/lobbyists/bribers/owners.
let's keep this going with focus. End corporate ownership of government
We now have:
Corporate control of government policy for private gain.
We are getting screwed royally by corporate interests. We have to circumvent their control of our government and media by grassroots democratic public display. It's the only way - and it works! The time is now.
We need teachers in high political office.
I'm a member of the union endorsing OWS that sparked this commentary. We're college professors and professionals in a NJ state university. Everything critical you can say about a union I've said about mine already, believe me. But without our union we'd be totally defenseless against the corruption, greed, and rapacity of the politicians, Democrats and Republicans, and the university presidents, who want to run the campuses like feudal lords. The only thing worse than having a bad union? Not having a union at all. What members need to do is take back our unions! Transform them from service organizations giving us low-cost auto insurance into social movements! It's great to see my local being changed - and giving support to OWS!
Focus all this great energy on one thing.
END THE FEDERAL RESERVE.
That will topple them.
Ever hear of the term "Useful Idiots"? That is what these protesters are. You lazy fools want redistribution of wealth? You want the rich to give to the poor? Well that is what is happening, but on a global scale. You want selfish redistribution just in the United States. Sorry. It is a global world, and you fools are rich compared to billions. So get ready for our "wealth" to be lost to the rest of the world. Big business will be happy to oblige as they make more money. Oh, and before you bash big business, try real hard to think where your parents and grandparents pensions and 401K's are invested. Duh. Bring down business and they lose their retirements. You people are so brainwashed and ignorant.
Greetings to all from Cairo's Tahrir square! I really believe your movement is a great one and would spread globally if it is well articulated. I have been studying the root cause of all of this for 3 years. My recommendation is that you folks may want to focus on the core issue, rather than letting the SIGs and politicians manipulate you by tinkering with the current system. This is not a tax issue or an unemployment issue. What is needed is an overhaul of the financial system. In the current system, money is created in the form of DEBT and is created by banks out of thin air! For every dollar that is in the economy, there is someone that owes that dollar! So, it is perpetual debt problem that mathematically can NEVER be paid off. it is modern day slavery that will keep snow balling. So your number 1 goal ought to be a "review and revamp of the money creation system and giving such power to the people" . It is then and only then, other measures would work. Without such fundamental change, you will be chasing a mirage and an illusion of reform. Sincerely, Tahrir-man
Greetings to all from Cairo's Tahrir square! I really believe your movement is a great one and would spread globally if it is well articulated. I have been studying the root cause of all of this for 3 years. My recommendation is that you folks may want to focus on the core issue, rather than letting the SIGs and politicians manipulate you by tinkering with the current system. This is not a tax issue or an unemployment issue. What is needed is an overhaul of the financial system. In the current system, money is created in the form of DEBT and is created by banks out of thin air! For every dollar that is in the economy, there is someone that owes that dollar! So, it is perpetual debt problem that mathematically can NEVER be paid off. it is modern day slavery that will keep snow balling. So your number 1 goal ought to be a "review and revamp of the money creation system and giving such power to the people" . It is then and only then, other measures would work. Without such fundamental change, you will be chasing a mirage and an illusion of reform. Sincerely, Tahrir-man
Fox News had promoted the policies of leaving wallstreet alone. It's time to let them know they are wrong. www.occupyfoxnews.com
Nobel winner Stiglitz explaining: The vicious circle of corporation, CEOs, money, politics and legal system, etc CEOs walk away with loads of money while their wrongdoing is paid back by corporations which is owned by shareholders! Put financial criminals in jail ! Watch the video: http://www.dailyfinance.com/2010/10/22/joseph-stiglitz-corporate-crooks-to-jail/
Congrats OWS...you've now been co-opted by a moneyed interest as powerful and political as any corporation.
THINK THIS THROUGH: based on knowledge of past NYC protests, including the Tompkins Square protest, I think trying to take Washington Square Park is a terrible idea! Do it and the police will clobber you. The park will be closed off and you'll wind up running around in the dark in a tightening trap. It's designed to make this possible. Check it out on Google Earth.
What we need is a deal with 1199, TWU, the UFT or other unions with halls to be able to use one of those halls as a safe, warm, dry, inclusive home base for daily protest on the street.
A union hall or other home base would enable the movement to put out peaceful, legal, daily protests before and during working hours throughout the fall and winter.
Where did the elites and corrupts leaders of Wall Street go to college?
Should these colleges be exempt of this protest ?
" Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Stanford, and Wharton. A new study shows that recruiters for the best law firms, investment banks, and consultancy firms are only looking at graduates of those schools, Business Insider reports. " http://www.newser.com/story/109556/recruiters-columbia-mit-are-so-second-tier.html
No Child Left Behind...
anyone who took out loans and was some how fooled into taking out more then they could afford is an idiot if you don't know how much you make and how much you can pay and still have enough to live then you are an idiot anyone with any brain could figure that out and I don't think they fooled anyone I think a bunch of deadbeats took out loans with no intention of paying it back and I think this protest is a bunch of union creeps who are mad because goverments are cutting jobs but those same unions will not do what it takes to save those jobs they just throw younger employees under the bus and refuse to pay for anything and also a bunch of deadbeats who live off taxpayers through welfare,foodstamps,student loans that they use for thing that were never intended like living on and buying other junk having nothing to do with college,and then the deadbeats who have lived off goverment forever and have brainwashed their children into thinking the taxpayers have to should take care of them while they sit at home on their asses spitting out kids and doing nothing but sucking the life out of the middle class I think welfare for everyone should end today and maybe those deadbeats would take the jobs that are out there and there are plenty do like the pay whaaa tough get to jobs then you lazy bums I have thru my entire life so suck it up stop complaining and get to work you lazy good for nothing leeches
anyone who took out loans and was some how fooled into taking out more then they could afford is an idiot if you don't know how much you make and how much you can pay and still have enough to live then you are an idiot anyone with any brain could figure that out and I don't think they fooled anyone I think a bunch of deadbeats took out loans with no intention of paying it back and I think this protest is a bunch of union creeps who are mad because goverments are cutting jobs but those same unions will not do what it takes to save those jobs they just throw younger employees under the bus and refuse to pay for anything and also a bunch of deadbeats who live off taxpayers through welfare,foodstamps,student loans that they use for thing that were never intended like living on and buying other junk having nothing to do with college,and then the deadbeats who have lived off goverment forever and have brainwashed their children into thinking the taxpayers have to should take care of them while they sit at home on their asses spitting out kids and doing nothing but sucking the life out of the middle class I think welfare for everyone should end today and maybe those deadbeats would take the jobs that are out there and there are plenty do like the pay whaaa tough get to jobs then you lazy bums I have thru my entire life so suck it up stop complaining and get to work you lazy good for nothing leeches
Solidarity to my friends and fellow workers from a Washington State AFT member!
http://www.reddit.com/r/occupywallstreet/comments/kyjo2/an_open_letter_and_warning_from_a_former_tea/
Food for thought
17 million "food-insecure" children live in the United States
49.9 million people do not have access to health care
Stop the Privatization of public schools
Stop the Privatization of public libraries
We need a unified plan of action . . .
This new product might help everyone here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=201pgTaEseQ
The BS Removal Kit will change everyone's life who needs to get rid of the BS from our government. When we give entrepreneurs a chance to thrive the BS will stop.
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The BS Removal Kit will change everyone's life who needs to get rid of the BS from our government. When we give entrepreneurs a chance to thrive the BS will stop.
According to the FOX NEWS ticker on Friday night, sanitary conditions at your site are deteriorating. The organizers should have thought of that before they arrived, because I don't think that the City of New York has a responsibilty to provide Port-A-Potties. On the other hand, the idea that the protestors will impede business in the stock market is nonsense. Wall Street may be a good symbolic location, but stocks can be bought and sold from anywhere on earth with an internet connection. Mayor Bloomberg is being disingenuous.
According to the FOX NEWS ticker on Friday night, sanitary conditions at your site are deteriorating. The organizers should have thought of that before they arrived, because I don't think that the City of New York has a responsibilty to provide Port-A-Potties. On the other hand, the idea that the protestors will impede business in the stock market is nonsense. Wall Street may be a good symbolic location, but stocks can be bought and sold from anywhere on earth with an internet connection. Mayor Bloomberg is being disingenuous.
Never minding the minutia of the American political system integrated with the corporate business system. THINGS are not working. That is clear as daylight. It has a lot to do with how we are organized as a cities and towns, ect. This is the elephant in the room. Then on top of that there has been a general acceptance of DEPENDENCE on Products i.e. energy (Electricity, Gas, Water, ect), the Government, and a Banking System that is being controlled by the FEW for the benefit of a FEW. How about we start there?
Unions are trying to co-opt this movement. They see $$$$$$$$$$$$$
watch the movie called the secrets of oz its all about currency and how to end the fed
The problem with unions is addressed in "3", below.
I know what to do next (User Submitted)
Posted Oct. 7, 2011, 11:52 p.m. EST (10 minutes ago) by CarryTheGripsUpToTheAttic
Many people have expressed their opinion about the way forward in this movement.
There are 3 common flaws in the proposals 1)"demands" have to be approved within the existing political structure, 2)physical theft or violence would require interference from the government, 3)current political entities would absorb this movement, when the feeling in the air is that something absolutely new is required.
Here is my proposal: create a new national capitol. Only that move will be seen as satisfying when we look back on these events in the decades to come.
But how can this small movement break free from the current oligarchy that controls us? We are doctors, lawyers, and farmers just the same as our founding fathers. Yet, the principles they created have been distorted to serve the oligarchy. These principles should be renewed.
In creating a new and better seat of government, we have the most powerful tool ever created - the internet.
I suggest Kansas City, Kansas as a location for this new seat of government. A new and faster internet is being created there. An open and more benign canvas exists at this site, without the stifling history and "baggage" found on either coast.
We don't need to hate "them", we'll just focus on creating a better "us". The energy to do this, exists right now in New York.
CarryTheGrips
The support is great but the 99% needs a credible action plan like the one set forth on this webpage:
https://sites.google.com/site/the99percentdeclaration/
Please read and give your ideas and comments.
the reality is that the government we have in place nor these corporate thieves give a crap... what it boils down to is that if people want change... we need to create it, feed it and live it... who said that we needed the FEDERAL RESERVE to create money from nothing, to make bubbles that only they can burst? Politicians who lie and hold oaths to the unseen 1% who take what they want and leave their trashy scraps behind, who said that we need the government to listen to every conversation because THEY have created their own enemies and arm them- so that our children can be killed, aimed and come home with demons that haunt them... We need a nation that works together a nation that provides food for each and every person no matter who you are, a nation that educates the young to be brilliant researchers, scientist doctors and individuals who will take us beyond anything we could ever imagine, we need a government that does not lie about the trillions of dollars they hide in SECRETES that benefit only the few-- Yeah we know about those!!
The Draconian rule is coming to it's end... WE THE PEOPLE OF THE THESE UNITED STATE OF AMERICA ARE TAKING OUR LAND, GOVERNMENT AND DIGNITY BACK- so sit back and play nice- Mr Banker, Politician, and the undignified sheeple that just doesn't get it!
I would like to join you in your fight unfortunately you haven't stated clearly what you are fighting for.
So I must conclude you are fighting for nothing, or at least, that will be the result.
This is not about unions this is about congress,senate,president,wall street and the corrupt people who hold those jobs.These people need term limits like the president,two terms and your out.People keep putting the same people in and expecting a different result.The leaders dems and rep need to go.Take a good look at who was running these branches of gov.10yrs ago when we got into this mess and you will see the reason we are still in it.These people let wall street do what ever they want because of the money will stop.NO one has the balls to stand up and say no to them because of re-election money will run out.Special interest should not even be permitted in wash. dc.People has forgot they work for us noboby else we sign their pay checks and if they don`t do their job they need to go, and they all need to go.This movement needs to continue as long as it takes to reclaim our country.
Occupy Goldman Sachs
Occupy BoA
Occupy JP Morgan
Occupy The FED
Stop the LOOTING
None of you idiots know how the free enterprise system works. Get an education, open a business, create some jobs, and make yourself rich. That is what America is all about. I did it, so can you. Quit trying to blame everything on someone else. If you have a problem then I suggest that you only have yourself to blame.
What if the constituency of our senators and congressmen unionized to force legislation approval by the citizen populace?
What if the constituency of our senators and congressmen unionized to force legislation approval by the citizen populace?
Oh! Not Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms?
Republicans and Democrats are both sons and daughters of the beast. They were born from the beast and they respond to the beast. They do not represent the 99% of this country.
we are under heavy attack by the propaganda machines. i have heard everything from soros is funding this movement to help install a one world government to they are wanting marshall law so obama will stay president. i read a bunch of demands that was from this movement that really aint from this movement.also check this out http://weaselzippers.us/2011/10/03/soros-funded-puppets-moveon-org-joins-occupy-wall-street-protest/#comment-334798 watch out for perpetrators tring to make this movement into a battle. with love and support from georgia thanks
Let us get rid of the 1% by nationalizing the banks,and the big corporations,expatriate them,and turn them into social entities.Let us use those funds for the benefit of the 99%. Let the working class create our own unions. Let us end corporate greed and power.Let us end the wars in Iraq and Afhganistan and bring our troops home,and let us use the money for the benefit of this nation. Let us dismantle the military and our police state and let us turn our weapons into plowshares. No more future world wars!. Stop the environmental destruction to the earth.! The earth needs relief and corporations are exploiting it's limited resources. The earth is beginning to rebel and that is why we have all these calamities going on around the world. The earth needs a break from corporate greed and exploitation too.
Go Labor!!!!
Help elect real people to congress: mcclatcheyforcongress.com (against Joe Walsh)
We are in the belly of the most horrible beast, but we are still alive. Let us slay the dragon with our social, political,economic ideas that will bring hope and relief to the 99% and not just to the 1%.
Unions are nothing but a special interest creeping into our revolution. We need to say: "Thanks, but no thanks!"
My NYC story:
2004 got my 1st job, $14/hr
2005 got raise to $16/hr
2006 got raise to $17/hr
2006 new job - pays $20/hr
2008 refused raise
2009 refused raise
2010 "fired" - replaced by a worker paid $11/hr
2011 offered a job - pay $8.15/hr (for the same stuff done for the past 7 years)
= something is rotten in the state of Denmark.
Look at this. Someone put together all the logos from the Occupy protests around the world. http://www.jenx67.com/p/pre-occupied-with-wall-street.html
the number of power 90 the number to fight 10
we are under heavy attack by the propaganda machines. i have heard everything from soros is funding this movement to help install a one world government to they are wanting marshall law so obama will stay president. i read a bunch of demands that was from this movement that really aint from this movement.also check this out http://weaselzippers.us/2011/10/03/soros-funded-puppets-moveon-org-joins-occupy-wall-street-protest/#comment-334798 watch out for perpetrators tring to make this movement into a battle. with love and support from georgia thanks
The most corrupt organizations in America support the movement.
We are in the belly of the beast. Let us slay the dragon with our economic,social,political ideas that will bring relief to the 99%.
Why not hold Obama accountable for his mistakes... if he did his job remotely well, this would not even be an issue. He is learning on the job (having not run any political or private entity), and not fast enough. He has no new ideas, and is channeling your anger to redistribute wealth from those who worked hard to earn it. Is this the America we want? Punish the successful when the economy he can't jumpstart stalls? If you take entrepreneurial risk and succeed honorably, will you want to be a villan?
Why not hold Obama accountable for his mistakes... if he did his job remotely well, this would not even be an issue. He is learning on the job (having not run any political or private entity), and not fast enough. He has no new ideas, and is channeling your anger to redistribute wealth from those who worked hard to earn it. Is this the America we want? Punish the successful when the economy he can't jumpstart stalls? If you take entrepreneurial risk and succeed honorably, will you want to be a villan?
We are in the belly of the beast. Let us slay the dragon with our ideas that will bring solutions to the 99%.
We are in the belly of the beast. Let us slay the dragon with our ideas that will bring solutions to the 99%.
Saw the picture on youtube of banking executives sipping champagne on the balcony with smirks on their faces....the gall to do that when so many of them only still have their jobs because WE bailed them out!! Talk about NOT GETTING IT!!!
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An error in the long run (over one year) is being made here. This is not Egypt...you must and can take political power and use it to gave the country back to the middle class. Who are they? Everybody! Republicans, Tea Partiers, Democrats Liberal and Moderate, Independents. Run 99%'ers wherever you can and "endorse" Republican candidates, Democratic candidates, Indpendent candidates...whomever supports busting up the six big banks, fairly taxing the rich at 38% period, opening up workers rights (Republicans have set rules that make it very hard to start a union) to start unions, banning subsidizes to big business to move factories overseas, insuring the Voting Rights Act (Republicans/ALEC at state level are trying to keep elderly, minorities, students from voting in 2012 and beyond). Endorse these candidates as 99%'ers and take over both parties for the middle class to restore the middle class (purge both parties and replace them or get them on board). And ban Supplyside (the rich and Big Business are the supply side) Economics which uses the income tax system to transfer wealth from the middle class to the rich over a 25-to-35 year period Herbert Hoover was the first to practice it, than Reagon, than George W. Bush) Ban big money campaign contributions.
I propose a maximum wage (salary cap) on wages and company profits in North America. Say 10million/year. Can't hide any extra that year in stocks, bonds either. It goes straight to government as a tax if not directly reinvested in the company or person through building new offices, giving employees raises, new furniture or equipment, R&D, education etc. It would create a ton of new jobs and extra government income to balance the budgets and pay down the debt. And all extra income must be spent in this country not an offshore branch. This applies to all employees or CEO's of foreign companies operating in our country. And cap corporate donations to political parties to limit their influence on our democracy. Should a person move out of the country to cheat the salary cap they forfeit their citizenship.
Let put this in a way teachers might understand, anyone in here a math major?
Unions = Politics = Bad for OWS < 99% of the People + A non partisan message
Had to comment. Michael Moore ? Moore is a crafty skunk. He has made millions by taking advantage of what Capitalism has made available to him and the hypocritically trashes that system. What a tool. He is a hypocrit and is making fools of all of you that think he is the real deal. What do you think he would say if he was required to have the bulk of his net worth redistributed to all of the OWS protestors so that all can have the same. I am serious all of you, what indeed do you think his reaction would be to such a request? Dare to offer a response?
Proletarier aller Laender, vereinigt euch! Why aren't you people upset with unions using monoply power to extort money from the "99%."
It is very disturbing that is not a greater attention being paid to the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan by the kids at Liberty Park--- why is this ?
It is very disturbing that is not a greater attention being paid to the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan by the kids at Liberty Park--- why is this ?
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It's all in the voting system, within unions too. Check out the "All Party System (and independents)":
http://usparliament.org/
Go BarrOOgle 2012 [Green Tea/Free Parliamentary]
Since 1980 (Supply-side economics..et., Reagonomics) the 2010 Census shows: Incomes below $85,000 had no increase (adjusted for inflation) in income; $200,000 to $300,000 - their income doubled; over $300,000 - their income tripled. Last ten years 53,000 American factories moved to China by Republicans (Big Business and rich) using middle class income taxes to subsidize them. The top six banks control 64% of all the people's money. They are sitting on $2 trillion, and Big Business on another $3 trillion...driving the stock market by using it like a casino. Booming stock market and Europe and USA in a deep recession? Why? Bust up the banks using Sherman Anti-Trust laws.
This story is one more example of why our country is in such a mess. Capitalism is not the problem. Government interference in the free market is the problem. The free market is one of the main reasons our country achieved any level of economic greatness. Capitalism and free enterprise are indispensable components to a free society. Indeed, the freedom to trade in an unregulated market is a major reason standards of living rise among humans. Certainly fraud and theft, which are not free transactions at all, have no place in a capitalist society and should be punished when properly proven.
However, simply protesting against “Wall Street” or capitalism generally reveals a poor understanding of the very concepts which advance humanity and raise standards of living for humans. To be sure, take a look at countries where markets have been strictly controlled by governments and witness substandard living standards. Instead of promoting more government interference in markets, Americans should be vigorously clamoring for the government to get out of the way and allow the free market to regulate the flow of goods and services for a change. Other than a selected few government ordained elite, we would all be better off.
www.AttorneyForFreedom.com
Don't let the unions fool you! What started out to be a great idea years ago has been so miss managed, not benefiting anyone except the unions hierarchy. There hierarchy is just as corrupt or in some cases more than the people and institutions you are protesting against. Union employees get less and less for their dues while the union bosses get richer and richer. Administration fees for the bosses just keep going up and what do they spend them on? Lavish outings with $1,000 dollar a night rooms and limo service to there golf games all paid for by the hard working man. Most union employees have no idea how there hard working money is spent - ask them. Before you jump on the union band wagon and welcome them with open arms, keep in mind that most of those union employees that are marching with you are there because their union bosses told them to be there and they told them to be there so that they can take this great movement away from you.
To all of you who have a victim mentality - wake up. The world is yours for the taking. It's yours for the taking, not for the receiving.
No one will give you anything unless you use the government to point a gun at their head and then just wait until someone poorer than you comes to take what you think is rightfully yours.
The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money.
As a former UAW member (laid off Jan. 2007) I welcome the support of the union membership, but am worried about of the union officials becoming the spokesman for the Movement. The media seems to be latching on to them. This Movement was started by the People and I am always leery of the higher ups in the Unions and their own political motives. We the People are the voice of this Movement and not union Presidents who are a handshake or two away from the poloticians and CEOs that have created this crisis
Obamas' 2012 Finance Director is the son of BANK OF AMERICAS former CEO.... the guy who got us in this mess!!! Keeping it all in the Family
I don't mean this as a criticism but as a way to help...Last night Jon Stewart showed interviews of a number of business owners on Wall Street. They want the protestors to leave because they said they come into their restaurants, use the restrooms and leave them a mess, and even break sinks and stuff while trying to shower in them, and they also come in with their bags of feces and ask them to dispose of them. Pretty bad press. Maybe someone can let people know that this has become an issue? You know people are going to focus on the negative, and especially the media. If we want respect, we must act respectful (even if we think a business doesn't deserve it). Just passing on info - trying to help. Keep on keeping on!
Corporate robots and technology will take all our jobs in the end. Stop the rot now!
Corporate robots and technology will take all our jobs in the end. Stop the rot now!
I'm a teacher in the North of England, struggling with the cuts, as are my beautiful, betrayed students. We have talked about your movement and, trust me, you are doing more to raise the esteem of American people, than anyone, EVER. We are following your activities and will join you in our struggle. You rock, YOU GO!!!!!!
The argument over unions joining the fray discrediting this movement is just plain stupid. Wouldn't most union workers fall in the 99%?
To me, it's about as lame as discrediting the movement because some of the protesters use apple products. I wasn't aware that Apple caused all this (though, Apple isn't devoid of wrong doing, it's just a fallacy I would like to point out). I also didn't realize that access to Apple products means we should sit back and take the shaft, or, that they epitomes American happiness. Is this possibly another sign of the 1%'s disconnection with humanity?
And I want confirmation on this one: with the so called 1% protests; are participants actually 1%-ers or just their intern errand boys put up to the task (Keep in mind I'm posing this question based on pictures of young men with child like faces, labeled as from the 1% camp). And, I wonder, do the ground workers on Wall Street really feel like they are separate from the 99% and feel they are somehow not subject to the current fleecing? Also, I hope that if one thing is done, it be it is established that this movement doesn’t belong to ANY political organization.
Thank you to everyone participating.
The argument over unions joining the fray discrediting this movement is just plain stupid. Wouldn't most union workers fall in the 99%?
To me, it's about as lame as discrediting the movement because some of the protesters use apple products. I wasn't aware that Apple caused all this (though, Apple isn't devoid of wrong doing, it's just a fallacy I would like to point out). I also didn't realize that access to Apple products means we should sit back and take the shaft, or, that they epitomes American happiness. Is this possibly another sign of the 1%'s disconnection with humanity?
And I want confirmation on this one: with the so called 1% protests; are participants actually 1%-ers or just their intern errand boys put up to the task (Keep in mind I'm posing this question based on pictures of young men with child like faces, labeled as from the 1% camp). And, I wonder, do the ground workers on Wall Street really feel like they are separate from the 99% and feel they are somehow not subject to the current fleecing? Also, I hope that if one thing is done, it be it is established that this movement doesn’t belong to ANY political organization.
Thank you to everyone participating.
Hi awkwd American people! continue your revolution upto complete victory! your complete victory is destroying the liberal system,the government of USA,and the whole bad rulers. o american people! know that we all muslims soppurt your revolution.1.5 bilion muslim people are looking you to fall down the american government.the first news of our broad castings are your movement.it is important for any human to see the other humans free.we all want you to be free like us.I am an Iranian myself.i enjoy being free.i live in a country which human is valuable and we enjoy living under the flag of Islam.and know that the only way of rescuing is Islam,which answers to the whole requierments of human. anyway we muslims are sure that the Islam will be winner one day. and as I am Iranian and dont know English too much so forgive me for mistakes in writing. God help you!!!
Hi awkwd American people! continue your revolution upto complete victory! your complete victory is destroying the liberal system,the government of USA,and the whole bad rulers. o american people! know that we all muslims soppurt your revolution.1.5 bilion muslim people are looking you to fall down the american government.the first news of our broad castings are your movement.it is important for any human to see the other humans free.we all want you to be free like us.I am an Iranian myself.i enjoy being free.i live in a country which human is valuable and we enjoy living under the flag of Islam.and know that the only way of rescuing is Islam,which answers to the whole requierments of human. anyway we muslims are sure that the Islam will be winner one day. and as I am Iranian and dont know English too much so forgive me for mistakes in writing. God help you!!!
Thank you. Good luck with your own freedom fight as well.
rmmo's comments beloq are spot on. And his/her demands/what we can do make a lot of sense. I also would like to see wall street criminals jailed and made to pay restitution to the tune of everything they stole through scams and corrupt/dishonest deregulation. I strongly believe in unions and believe many jobs should be unionized. But I also think unions the way I have experienced them for many years (in the education system in NYC) make it almost impossible to fire absolutely appalling, mean, lazy teachers. I am not talking about teachers who could be rehabbed/trained/offered intensive PD. I am talking about miserable people who know the union is there to protect them and are bone idle, don't care, and the children in their classrooms suffer greatly. They are like prisoners. I would say 10% of teachers in NYC public school system need to go and it's impossible to get rid of them. Also don't misinterpret this...they are many teachers who are excellent/heros in my opinion. And all good teachers should be making better salaries. However, if education is the great equalizer (and I believe it is and want excellent public education for our children) we have to make it a lot easier to get rid of teachers who do not give a #%*^ about the children they teach.
Unions need to exist and be powerful to protect workers rights but you also have to be able to get rid of horrible employees without having to pay a fortunate and go through years of kafka-esque bureaucracy to do it.
If you get 90% good and 10% bad with an education union, I'd say teacher's union are worth keeping as they are. Thats a good system.
While various union leaders do have connections to corrupted democrats, I would not worry about that too much. The unions have been marginalized by those in power for a very long time. The rank and file in the unions have similar needs to the rest of us. Together there is strength. Divided we fall.
The more the merrier.
Demonstrations like this are unfortunately now one of our few options left to us because government is unresponsive to public will. Its an inefficient civic process, but if you stick it out it eventually gets results. Here's to Occupying America as citizens rather than tax cattle for the coffers of war profiteers and the financial industry.
Take back the banks, create money that benefits people. Take back the factories, make jobs for people. Take back the local MSM, tell the truth to the people. Take back food production, feed the people. Take back health-care, make people healthy. Take back the police, protect the human rights of the people. Investigate 911, London 7/7, free the people from the manufactured fear that has enslaved them.
I think the message is to work for ourselves. There is a great deal of work to do. Why there is unemployment in the US is mind boggling.
It says a great deal about the priorities of those who control our resources.
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If you want real power to make change then we need to create a politcal party and for someone to step and take the lead. We will not get effective change by pinning our hopes on the Democrats or Republicans OR the unions. The unions can stand with us but they cannot represent us.
Unions, union lobbyists, and union pension plans are part of the problem. The backdoor deals they do across the country should not be tolerated. In California, unions have helped ruin the public education system. Teacher's Unions have repeatedly backed incompetent teachers and are doing a disservice to future generations of Americans.
Salt Lake City is now occupied!
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Here's the real culprit www.occupyfoxnews.com
The paper says "WE the People" its time to take this county back. I have waited for over 30 years for this to happen. This is our country and we want it back.
There is a site called americanselect.org, they will get a spot on the presidential ticket. If people are serious about "change", that is where you start, at the top. Look at the revolutions that happened in South America. They got real democracy the same way; they protested and then they voted one of the 99% into office. So I am with you #OWS. We can use the system against the people in power and bring the actions we need to change this country and then the world.
Shake the foundations of power before you put forth a candidate.
I agree, but this site has no candidates, it's a blank independent spot on the ballot. we decide who to put in there, no dem or republicans.
I'm glad we agree.
This idea is something similar to what Dan Carlin promoted on his show. A network of activists that may not be able to fund a candidate but can help to spread the word and vet them.
Oh and someone who can address big issues like soda/sugary drinks causing childhood obesity, cigarettes still causing 443,000 deaths a year in America, Monsanto, and a foreign policy that views all or neighbors as equals.
I say our future candidate can be a scholar with a Ph,d with big ideas and a lot of student loans, haha.
The 1% is terrified that the lofty ideals of the OWS movement and the considerable negotiating power of the unions can be merged into an extremely potent force for real change. I ask only that those who refuse to consider the inclusion of unions in this effort consider what is truly required for us to attain our common goals.
I do not wish to see anyone compromise their ideals for the sake of expediency; that would ensure the movement dies a quiet death. But the other sure formula for failure is to allow the "divide and conquer" wedge of our preconceptions to prevent us from working together. That is exactly how we ended up in the mess we are in. And short of brute force, it is the only weapon of the 1%. And brute force is more expensive and less effective than divide and conquer.
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AMERICA - YOU'RE GETTING MACED, YOU'RE GETTING HOSED, AND YOU'RE GETTING NOWHERE. THESE EXPANDING DEMONSTRATIONS ACCOMPLISH NOTHING. THEY PROVIDE HOT COPY FOR THE NEWS MEDIA, BUT DO NOT IMPACT THE BANKING SECTOR. WANT TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE - READ THIS: http://shauncostello.wordpress.com/2011/10/06/the-macing-of-america/
Dear Followers: My hat comes off to all of you who despite the known Goverment retaliation and vindictiveness policies in general, you guys have the guts to stand up and are out there making a change and having our voice heard for all of us! Im sorry due to present medical conditions not being able to participate and support in the Tampa,Fl movement, but would like very much someone to dispaly a banner requesting under the Constitution which clearly states we are all "Equal under the law" for those Representatives, Legislators, Senators, Congressman/women Etc. "TO BE PLACED IN SAME SYSTEM AS ALL OF US, UNDER THE SOCIAL SECURITY ADMINISTRATION" WITH THE SAME PRESENT OR FUTURE MEDICAL COVERAGE & HOSPITALS! No more expecial treatment or hospitals for the elite. May God bless and protect all of you. Thank you very much, F. L. Tampa,Fl Ps. Miami-Dade/Broward County should be next in line! That is the talk of the town if they are next? Will find a way to send my gratefull donation.
I am from Russia. We wish you to win. Fight for your future.
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GO OCCUPIERS! You are democracy in action.
This is what I see. The country is flat broke and crippled by foreign debt through deliberate financial mismanagement. Social security is going away, pensions are dead, mainstream media blacks-out dissenting voices, GE is now a very profitable "person" but pays no taxes, our jobs and industry are systematically farmed out overseas for even bigger short-term profits, we are funding two foreign wars and the banks that ripped us off are "too big to fail." I wish my small business was too big to fail.
It seems the root of the problem is that our two entrenched political parties survive by feeding from the same money trough and then consistently sell their votes to the highest bidder. That bidder is definitely not you. Did you really approve of any of the decisions above? Of course not. In fact, when was the last time a proposal you wanted to see happen ever happened? Likely none. Based on what you have seen in the last 10 years, do you really think if your traditional DemoPublican candidate wins, that anything is going to substantially change or get better? Both parties have had their chances, and they chose to represent big money. I have seen Democrats (populists) bailing out multinational banks with borrowed cash, and Republicans (fiscally conservative) spend us into staggering debt. Really??? Who are these people? Do you feel represented?
These are a few of the issues the Occupiers are dissenting against. Nevertheless, I find it fascinating that the typical response I hear about the Occupiers is: "Get a job you unpatriotic hippie whiners!" (Wow...) Did the definition of patriotism and democracy change when I wasn't looking? Both the Occupiers and Tea Party seem to fit the definitions I learned. People who feel disregarded. Regular people like you, with no real money who are sacrificing and dissenting, trying to have their place at the table of representation in this nation. We should allow them to do it. You don't have to like or agree with them, but their very existence is a good thing for this country. It tells me we (actually, they) have not given up on democracy quite yet.
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As long as there is a currency we will never be free.
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Unless you have a skill in demand then you don't need a union
Will the unions stop donating to political campaigns? If not stay the away from this movement
Unions will stop when corporations stop.
I agree. It's a war between Unions and Corporations. Unfortunately in both case, the money actually comes from working class (Since corporations mostly make money from the middle class).
To fix all of this, everything we're at issue with, to end the corporate greed, to end the political stalemates the permeate Washington, to end partisan bickering, to end the anger at your fellow man, to get a fair shake, to give power back to the people, requires two VERY SIMPLE yet powerful things.
These two things should be the ultimate demands from this movement.
Money is power. Politics is ultimately about controlling where money flows. If you control that, you control everything.
Why let everyone control the budgets?
Because the majority of people know best. Congress by nature of their numbers is incapable of providing the best decisions because this country is a huge melting pot. Each state has different problems and different benefits, and the local citizens deal with them firsthand everyday. The representative system of governance worked a century ago because the population was a fraction of what it is today.
The entire US Lobbying Institution would literally collapse overnight. Lobbyists exist to manipulate congress into moving money into their direction. Since the budgeting decision has been given to millions instead of a few people, money spent lobbying is rendered ineffective to produce their desired outcome. For example, federal tax revenue in the US is about 2.3 trillion dollars. Congress and the President have control over that sum. Averaged out, they each have about 4.3 billion dollars worth of control over that revenue. Lobbyists will pay off senators and congressmen with campaign donations of 5-10,000$, vacations, etc. If you paid someone 5000$ to make a 4.3 billion dollar decision (or even a 100,000$ decision), you are getting some good value for your money. But if these budgets were up to the voters (130 million), each voter would have about 17,500$ worth of influence, significantly decreasing lobbyist power.
No more blame game since you now have a piece of how the pie gets sliced. Do you support the military? Allocate money to military spending. Support stem cell research? Allocate money to science and R&D. Want to get off foreign oil? Allocate the money to alternative energy sources. Worried about social security? Allocate more to the fund. Worried about our country's ability to compete? Allocate the distribution to education. Worried about debt? Pay it down. People always hate the government because of the financial decisions they make. Not anymore.
The internet can be the primary vehicle of how people cast their tax allocation and educate themselves on this important decision. For those who do not have access, they can cast their allocation at designated locations such as their local library or post office.
There are times when emergency funds are needed for disasters; Economic, weather, unforeseen events. Congress shall have control over that as time is of the essence. But if the money exceeds a set amount, the voting power shall be delegated to the people (for example, bank bailouts).
So I say let the banks make their money. Let the rich people make their money. Everyone has a right to make a dollar fairly. But their riches will mean nothing because everyone has equal say in where all our tax money goes.
Occupy Wall Street organizers and protesters, please consider these two simple demands because it's rational, it's a good compromise, it doesn't destroy capitalism, and the ripple effects will be far reaching. I'm certain it will deliver on what we're looking for.
Did you post this on your Mac book, ipad or from your iphone? Wow the millions that Steve Jobs made and his great ideas really helped create jobs, etc. Wonder what would have happend if he was told he could not make any more money for the company...that he had to share the wealth with people that are not willing to accept a $7 job and instead sit on their #%@ to collect his wealth! You should be protesting on the White House lawn not on Wall Street where NOBAMA made his millions!!! Wake up peeps...you are not listening!!!!
Steve Jobs did have a lot of money, but I think he might have some sympathy for these ideals. Did you know he took only a $1 annual salary? http://techland.time.com/2011/01/12/steve-jobs-still-makes-a-1-salary/ He was still worth billions from his stock, though.
if the corporations would give 15% pay increases to all employees, the economy would be stimulated without costing the taxpayers one dime. The people would spend more money and the economy would improve, Exxon may only have a $6 Billion profit instead of $7 Billion! We don't want a hand out, we want our wages to keep up with all the fees that companies have passed on to the consumer from our phone bills to our banking fees. HELP US!
Everybody knows Corps aren't going to do that. The greed for their profits is too strong.
Exactly!!!!
if the corporations would give 15% pay increases to all employees, the economy would be stimulated without costing the taxpayers one dime. The people would spend more money and the economy would improve, Exxon may only have a $6 Billion profit instead of $7 Billion! We don't want a hand out, we want our wages to keep up with all the fees that companies have passed on to the consumer from our phone bills to our banking fees. HELP US!
nice: http://kiekste.wordpress.com/2011/10/07/occupy-wall-street/
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The Occupy Wall Street demonstrations, now spreading like wildfire across the nation, are the culmination of deep rooted pain & suffering of an oppressed sector of society. And, if current political trajectory continues undisturbed, this oppressed society will soon become extinct; crushed beneath the weight of political favors. Historically, the campaign trails are littered with come-ons and one-liners designed to coddle and woo the 99%. But, soon after the ballots are counted, the romance quickly fades. And, like a cheap one-night stand, our self-serving leaders, resume their tawdry affairs with the elite 1%, while quietly and discreetly leaving the interests of the 99% on the nightstand as they disappear into the shadows. “He chose poorly” said the Grail Knight of the scavenger… Leaders who choose profit over people-can expect a similar fate. The political scavengers who prostitute themselves for the sake of bankrolling ambition must be held accountable. 99% of the population holds 99% of the VOTE. Remember that. But, it doesn’t stop at the ballot box. Hopefully, this movement will inspire a new generation of social activists, to sort through the quagmire of special interest and reveal the true agenda of their chosen representatives. And, then (hopefully) they will take the appropriate actions to eradicate the source (vote them out of office). Fellow 99’ers, never give up and never give in, even when the odds are stacked against you. The fight must continue: “Everything we do & everything we are is in jeopardy, and because the peril is immediate & unremitting, every person is the right person to act and every moment is the right moment to begin, starting with the present moment. For nothing underscores our common humanity as strongly as the peril of extinction does; In fact, on a practical and political plane it establishes that common humanity. The purpose of action is not to replace life with politics. The point is not to turn life into a scene of protest; life is the point.” (Jonathan Schell). We must fight for a better tomorrow. Go in peace-Annie
OCCUPYDALLAS #occupywallstreet
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The Pocono Record, a local paper in Stroudsburg, Pennsylvania, ran this piece in support of the cause: http://www.poconorecord.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20111007/NEWS/110070379
Keep it up! Your message is getting out here, to the whole country.
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it is wonderful: your mass-media steel keeps absolute silence. After more than two weeks of protests!!! That is the mirror of democracy... I can see and study anything just from this site, created by only the some selfless enthusiasts, opposing to oligarchy. And this exploit is more valuable itn this conditions. Good luck!!!
"I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies" Thomas Jefferson Ghostofjefferson.blogspot.com
All of this, everything, the whole thing stems from 1 thing. Corporate money in politics. When you remove this. The politicians start working for you. Constitutional Fraud Law restricting you from voting on anything you hold stake in. I mean if BP donates 1 million to your campaign. Then you cannot vote for them. You must remain silent in all issues about BP. Conflict of interest . Punishable by Eviction from office and or jail time. In addition You should be barred from accepting employment from any company you lobbied for at least 5 years after leaving office. This should apply to all forms of government service. FCC, FDA and so on. Term limits that don't reset after you leave for one term. You get your 4 to 8 years and that's it. You're out for good.
I think you will be hard pressed to find a regular person that does not agree with these issues.
One thing is certain above all else.
The world is not working for the vast majority of people because of the actions of the minority.
All the money in the world cannot beat the will of the majority.
In our seeking for economic and political progress, we all go up - or else we all go down. Franklin D. Roosevelt
Not only our future economic soundness but the very soundness of our democratic institutions depends on the determination of our government to give employment to idle men. Franklin D. Roosevelt
True individual freedom cannot exist without economic security and independence. People who are hungry and out of a job are the stuff of which dictatorships are made. Franklin D. Roosevelt
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Has anybody ever taken a history lesson before?? "Feudalism" was a way of life before we developed organized governments; when wealthy landowners had everything, hired goons to protect their "rights", and people slaved away five days a week for the "right" to live on their land. Seems a bit like we're reverting back that way rather than progressing forward. And people are defending this?
OWS is not about bigger government or smaller government. It is about ending the political influence of big money; ending the corruption in the banks. One of the ways we as people defend ourselves against moneyed interests is by forming unions to fight for our rights to safety and decent working conditions. Obviously business owners do not like this, as it cuts into their profits. The fact remains that most businesses/factories/restaurants need a team to run them and make them profitable. You can't build 200 cars a day if you're the only person building them. As a business owner you rely on your employees as much as they rely on you.
While I agree you should be able to fire somebody who is a bad worker (lazy, mean, or whatever) some regulation is essential on businesses. Unfortunately, small businesses tend to get penalized by the gov't more heavily than bug businesses do. I helped my dad run his greenhouse for a summer when he got sick, and I learned that quick-- which is part of the reason we need to end the influence of big money in politics. I also learned was a GODSEND my dad's workers were, they made that greenhouse run so smoothly. My dad has always paid his workers well above minimum wage and treated them like people rather than objects, and as a result when he got sick, the employees knew the "right" thing to do was help him by doing their jobs to the best of their abilities. They sent him cards and visited him.
This greenhouse made my parents millionaires and put my brother and I through college. And my dad accomplished it by treating his workers like people and not objects. Funny how things run smoother when they are FAIR...
Everyone, take heed to this post. There is much wisdom here.
Also, beware of establishment politicians of both parties: Republican and Democrat establishment politicians are part of the elite classes. Nancy Pelosi is worth millions. If she offers help to OWS, it is only to attempt to subvert you.
However, if you all wish to have a lasting effect on this nation, you are going to have to enter politics yourself. OWS CANNOT smash the system. But you might be able to join it in order to subvert it to your ideals. And to do that, then you must join the political process, vote, and run candidates.
Anything else is just a bunch of public jerking off.
Great post.
Unions may not be perfect, but, I don't think corporations and their management are concerned about our well-being. I believe the "leaderless" quality helps protect OWS from being infiltrated by corporate and government trouble-makers determined to stop this spontaneous movement. When OWS outlives it's usefulness, another spontaneous movement will arise. Keep Up the Good Work.
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Don't let the unions take control and tell us what to do!!!!! They are going to come in and and think they are the "experts" on how to protest. We have enough "experts" telling America what to do. I say we protest them too! If you see a Union protestor and they tell you what to say or do, shout them down with "Union goons, need not apply"!
This is good news. Accept all unions and groups, reject all their leadership. WE the PEOPLE.
Will this protest culminate in a robust third party which could hold sway in Congress and the state houses?
We are Canadians and think both parties, Dems and Reps are corrupted. No CEOs of the bank have been brought to justice since financial crisis.
We fully support our American friends to protest for fairness and social justice. We also recommend you the protestors to create the third party to take control the White House next year.
We have no doubt that you 99% middle class will succeed. Yes, you can...reborn American dream.
Warmly kinds,
Canadian friend
+1 for union participation
Occupy WallStreet are doing a great work and billions of people support you and depend on your success. Do not give up and you will win.
However I think that only demonstrations and protests will not solve our problems and our big disaster. You need all to be organized in one party who will be ready to lead the world to change our criminal system/s to the only legal and correct system. A system based on our true human rights and our human values including justice, caring and love, because without these there is no system and no solution.
We are now not only wasting 95% of our precious resources but we are salves of crime and a criminal system that is killing slowly but surely our earth and all of us with it. A system that kills billions of people is nothing but criminal and we should not support it or even accept it.
We tried all kind of systems from extreme right to extreme left and the result is a bankrupt world, a dying earth and billions of victims all around us. Money and the system were always more important than the human and his earth. Accepting this is stupidity and a crime and is exactly the problem.
Our votes, taxes, work and even silence are empowering an evil system that makes money more important than us; this is stupidity, incitement to crime , slavery and huge crime; "our" system is exploiting and killing us and our earth. Your vote and money are killing people through injustice : dehumanization, unlimited greed, unemployment, bankruptcy, poverty, hunger, incitement to crime, a gambling economy, the gambling industry, ruthless and unnecessary competition, insecurity, depression, discrimination, pollution, wastage of resources, occupations, wars, terrorism and all the illnesses and pollution that come with all these crimes.
Injustice and poverty force the people, including children, to a life of deprivation or crime and in both cases this a big crime against all of us. Injustice gives us only crimes, wars and terrorism. We and our governments know and agree on the correct system for us. We all brag about goodness and how good we are. We all say that we love our country, all the people and our earth. We all are prepared to give our life for our country and for the good things we believe in. Our governments claim that our system is caring with all our human rights are respected. It seems we all say that our system is a system of love, caring, justice and goodness yet we all instead are doing the opposite; we worship money and we are its slaves and the slaves of all its crimes; our work and power are continuously hurting the humans and our earth.
The only logical system that works is as simple as to work as little as possible so that we can enjoy the world. This means to cooperate (not compete) to produce in the most efficient way and the best quality only the things that we need with a lot of food armed with, love, full employment and the latest technologies including robots. We can easily use robots to do most of our work so that we have time to enjoy our lives
This means to be extremely rich and happy on a peaceful and healthy earth where pain, fear and suffering are things of the past; together we can do it now. We have all the intelligence, resources and power needed to do this; our mother earth is abundantly rich; we only lack the necessary wisdom & the political will.
This is not a dream, utopia or only a theory that has no practical application. Theory and practice are one integrated process. Without the right theory you can never build a machine, let alone a system that runs and protects our world and the precious life in it. The choice is between life and crime and we cannot choose crime because our governments tell us it is practical.
AFT is a BAD organization. I am a teacher of 20 years and not affiliated with ANY union. I joined AFT once (Texas Fed. of Teachers, an affiliate of AFT) because of the legal protection benefits they offered, but as soon as I started to get their propaganda I canceled my membership. They are NOT one bit concerned about educating children. Their endorsement of this group should not be something to brag about. Wall st. may be corrupt and need more oversight, but having this group behind your cause is not in anyway adding to the legitimacy of your fight. AFT is corrupt and completely political. There is not any educational benefit in the leadership of this group. AFT and NEA are the bane of the future of education in this country
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RabCAUl73zc
I wanted to say that the #message that should have been posted is, that those who signed off on the bailouts need to be arrested for treason. I am hearing that the 1% are intending to arrest all the protestors and put them into FEMA camps. It's going to be announced soon they want to install Marshal Law. Be careful. So your #1 demand must be to begin with the arrests from those in Congress immediately or else we are doomed.
Im a graphic designer and just made these satire wall street images, just thought you might wanna use them.
http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lsnl13Nmql1qldsiio1_r2_250.jpg
http://28.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lsnl5cLD6z1qlduvho1_r1_250.jpg
These "Gold in Sacks" stickers are all over Brooklyn: http://www.flickr.com/photos/roeshad/4680754744/
He he!
"There must be something rotten in the very core of a social system which increases its wealth without diminishing its misery." - Karl Marx
Unions have always been used with great effect by the Marxist, which given your objectives is what you are. I can't wait for winter to come and watch you all scurry back into the nut house from which you escaped!
Another comment I would like to make to all the supporters out there is, I will be working my best to research into all the problems that caused the economy to get to the way it has today, along with past relations to other economy downfalls. I will research my utmost into resolutions, future growth, long term balance, ideas for a more concrete solution to get to where a America should be. As they say though two heads are better then one, then what does thousands to millions equal?. I know their are plenty of widely intellegent individuals that are all about this cause, with the help of everyone is the way a concrete solution will be born, please dont hesitate to express your ideas and solutions to strengthen America. Lets prove the media wrong, that we can make change, and for the good of everyone!
i've never been in a union. i do have relatives that were in a union and it always seemed to help when people needed to unify on an issue like wages or better hours and vacation, etc. right to work is complete bullshit.
as the person before me said, they can fire you for no good reason, without any warning whatsoever, without severance pay.
they can call you up on the phone and tell you today is your last day despite the fact you have NEVER been informed of any wrongdoing. (i may have been coming up for benefits?) i KNOW this. it happened to me. this was my first experience w/ 'right to work' laws. this episode sent me into a downward financial spiral that it took more than a year to pull myself out of. i became self-employed and said fuck all that! prior to this firing i had never been fired from a job. i'm 46. right to work gives the employer all the rights and takes them away from the worker.
Look into it.
There is no one with you under the so-called 'right to work' laws.
How cunningly the GOP has named it as "Right to Work" and not "Right to fire" ?
I am glad the AFT is on board. We all share common goals to protect the working people and support education for that matter. Unions may often times be viewed as sort of a double edged sword in that they are not always as democratic as one might like them to be but now is a great time to question the unions maybe we can bring them back to actually protecting the workers and not dominating those who seek refuge with them.
If anyone has something to say about this please do so constructively and present some literature or other media if you like. I would greatly appreciate it. Let us take this movement as an opportunity for truthful education and action. When I say truthful education I mean, let us try to look beyond our personal biases and challenge them and one each others so that we may grow strong and knowledgeable together and work effectively towards positive change.
Union leadership = big money
This headline is misleading. A local chapter of the AFT is not the AFT. I understand that a headline can't contain everything, but this is a vast over-extension of the content.
I gotta shout out against all the bad talking reporters out there about the protestors, stating they are just a bunch of kids with ludicrous comments and objectives, also stating they are all low life individuals and from one reporter to stat they smell and havnt showered since the beginning of the week. Well the fact is they all have they're yearly salary of comfortable pay, they couldnt imagine the individuals that lost their jobs due to greedy corporations that abused millions to billions of dollars out of bailouts, and they still laid off all their workers, and only got a slap in the hand. A reporter to go on about how they are not willing to work for 7 dollars an hour and its the protestors fault for the wall street crash, for middle class individuals to go from 20+ dollars an hour to 7 dollars an hour, is not really paying for the house payments, insurance, kids college, savings, I could go on and on. And plus millions were affected. This is not even just about those whom were affected, its about the people of america standing up against the corupt corporations of todays america, and also the greed and evil amongst the government. Please keep doing what your doing, if more people get involved then real change will happen and it can with the peoples support. Dont sit in silence this movement is not about anger, revenge, or hate, its about real change, and the only way real change will happen is by us the 99%.
I'd like to see the assholes who are against the protest take pay cuts down to $7 an hour and see how they do and how happy they are with it. A $7 an hour job is only good for a high school student or a retiree who's bored and is working just to have something to do. No one can make any kind of a living on $7 an hour. And the assholes out there slander people for not wanting to work for $7 an hour when the fucking crooks at the top are making millions upon millions by ripping people off.
This country has a HUGE problem with paying living wages..... a HUGE problem that needs to be resolved.
How is THAT even CLOSE to being fair????
well said !!! well said !! I have waited for years for the common man to stand up and take this country back. I'm loving it. I have been out of work so long I cant afford to make it to an occpy, but wish i could.
I feel your pain. I was without a permanent job for 5 years, and it was the toughest period of my life. Fortunately, I got a professional job in my field and have been here for almost 6 years and am very thankful for it. I feel like one of the lucky ones. I have many friends who've lost their professional jobs and who can't find another one. I know way too many in this predicament. When I was a kid in the 70s and 80s, there was so much security in jobs and being able to afford a house and all that. I remember thinking back then that things are really good, but what would happen if things changed and things weren't so good? Well, now I know. Everything has changed. And now, it's time for another change.
Good luck with finding a job. Hopefully, things will change very soon for the better for the 99%.
great thugs crooks and lobbyists endorses "us" you maybe. I can tell you as you read this prior to censoring me - this is the Achilles heel of the 99% movement - A headline that says AFT fully endorsees .... C'mon?!?!
For OWS to accept an endorsement from Union Bosses (Who interestingly enough are the same people that OWS began protesting) makes them lose so much credibility. I actually was going to join one of the protests in my state because I believe in freedom and believe that corporations, INCLUDING UNIONS, should not be in control of government and politicians like they currently are. Union bosses are also the people giving politicians (specifically Obama) MILLIONS to do what is best for them and only them. If OWS steered free from endorsements from any groups, especially ones with money, they would have doubled, tripled, even quadrupled the amount of people they currently have attending these events. Now all the people attending these things just look like democrats who want more social programs and want MORE government control. Don't fall for these people that try to act like they care. OWS will fail, and fail very rapidly I might add, if they accept endorsements from the people causing the problems. Stick to the principles of freedom, free market, NOT corporatism and crony capitalism. Don't accept endorsements from the people causing the problems. Obama came out and supported OWS today, BUT HE IS THE PROBLEM. He is the one FOR the bailout of the banks and the wall street crooks. Don't accept their lies and their attempts to act like they truly care, because they don't. All they want is your support for a next election. You are destined to fail and accomplish nothing if you accept support from the enemy.
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For OWS to accept an endorsement from Union Bosses (Who interestingly enough are the same people that OWS began protesting) makes them lose so much credibility. I actually was going to join one of the protests in my state because I believe in freedom and believe that corporations, INCLUDING UNIONS, should not be in control of government and politicians like they currently are. Union bosses are also the people giving politicians (specifically Obama) MILLIONS to do what is best for them and only them. If OWS steered free from endorsements from any groups, especially ones with money, they would have doubled, tripled, even quadrupled the amount of people they currently have attending these events. Now all the people attending these things just look like democrats who want more social programs and want MORE government control. Don't fall for these people that try to act like they care. OWS will fail, and fail very rapidly I might add, if they accept endorsements from the people causing the problems. Stick to the principles of freedom, free market, NOT corporatism and crony capitalism. Don't accept endorsements from the people causing the problems. Obama came out and supported OWS today, BUT HE IS THE PROBLEM. He is the one FOR the bailout of the banks and the wall street crooks. Don't accept their lies and their attempts to act like they truly care, because they don't. All they want is your support for a next election. You are destined to fail and accomplish nothing if you accept support from the enemy.
you have all been punkd by the Fascist Crony Capitalists in the White House
Momentum; the wave needs it to keep building as it overtakes the 'shallows'. Bring all aboard, only monitor those at the crest.
since so many of us are getting censored - listen to Taterhead
Unions attach a timeline to the movement - since the 50's they take take take, yes early days they did something but not since - they created a job boom in China and a job vacuum in US. Unions need to go away, period. Loose the unions and you will reverse this economy, its not 1920 anymore - SHEEP
"Stop paying dues, cross a picket line, or question ANYTHING the leadership says and you'll find out real fast where you stand and where your place is." - Taterhead 2011
Union dues are used for bosses for the agenda of the leadership territory - they are wolves circling this movement,
SHEEP
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To those who say: "1000 gallows on the DC mall." I say "5000 gallows on K Street."! (iconic DC address of LOBBYISTS)!
Whether you belong to a Union or not this movement should be making a statement about INJUSTICE. The Unions only represent a "part" of the injustice taking place over the last 20 years in the United States.
Wall Street and the banks were the primary cause of the financial downfall of this country and only one guy that I can think of (Bernie Maddoff) received any kind of punishment for what happened. I’m sure there are others who were far more guilty than he was, but throw up one sacrifice and let all the other crooks walk away. Not only that, but bail them out and give them a raise!
No JOBS because they are all outside the country. You can't even find anything to buy that is made in America because nothing is made in this country anymore.
Millions of people are losing their homes and seeing them resold by greedy banks for pennies on the dollar. The Making Homes Affordable Program is a JOKE. Try to get help from these people once. It will cost you so much to get your home refinanced under this program it will make your head spin. So how can anyone who is in financial distress afford to refinance under this stupid program. Only the big banks who accepted the TARP money can refinance people under this program and they will NOT do it without ridiculous fees which you can't pay if you are out on a limb to begin with.
The outrageous gas prices for no other reason than market price manipulation and greed.
People losing their pensions and health care benefits from corporations and states that say they are "broke" when these claims can be proven to be exaggerated or totally false.
On the subject of Social Security and Medicare no one seems to bring up the point that these programs designed to support the elderly when they can no longer work are not a hand out from the Government. They have been paid into for their entire working lives. The Government has their hand in these funds and have redistributed the money for other means and they have been the cause of the downfall of these sound programs.
Politicians are all corrupt. They are bought and paid for on both sides of the aisle and only represent the big money interests that put them in office.
There are millions of people in this country who are fed up with all of it, and this is the first time any kind of movement in this country is taking a stand against the gridlock and indifference of politicians who govern the country.
I totally applaud this movement.
I like what u r saying here in general and would like to add a few thoughts. The 99% of Mexico and China should take notice as the Corp. fat cats loot and pollute their countries. They dont want to see any more rank and file from those Countries join us. That might cut into their profits! Open the border! I am not afraid of the 99% from Mexico! let them in man. Everyone is invited but be aware of the union wolf circling the herd! This is a good movement but we need the people and not the wolves in sheep clothing. I understand being loyal to your own countries people. I love mine also, but I hate the corruption and bad leaders. Why not become our 51st state and tear down the border fences? We r seeing a mass exodus of Corp. Greed as they have looted the U.S. and r looking for greener pastures to loot and pollute. Who is building new infracture and huge buildings in China? The fat cat is licking its chops and laughing all the way to their banks. Unite and Fight !
Who made this statement?
"We ask that the government undertake the obligation above all of providing citizens with adequate opportunity for employment and earning a living. The activities of the individual must not be allowed to clash with the interests of the community, but must take place within its confines and be for the good of all. Therefore, we demand: … an end to the power of the financial interests. We demand profit sharing in big business. We demand a broad extension of care for the aged. We demand … the greatest possible consideration of small business in the purchases of national, state, and municipal governments. In order to make possible to every capable and industrious [citizen] the attainment of higher education and thus the achievement of a post of leadership, the government must provide an all-around enlargement of our entire system of public education … We demand the education at government expense of gifted children of poor parents … The government must undertake the improvement of public health – by protecting mother and child, by prohibiting child labor … by the greatest possible support for all clubs concerned with the physical education of youth. We combat the … materialistic spirit within and without us, and are convinced that a permanent recovery of our people can only proceed from within on the foundation of the common good before the individual good."
Francis Fox Piven? George Soros? One of the 99?
Nope.
It came from the political program of the Nazi Party, adopted in Munich, February 24, 1920
Ironic (but not really) how it mirrors what today's "liberals, leftists, and progressives are saying.
I am going to ignore the petty debate below me that, like the mainstream political apparatus, is missing the point entirely.
We are standing united to reclaim our way of life. God speed. Occupy Wall Street, we walk in the footsteps of great men and women and speak with righteousness and spit thunder with our words. Down with the plutocracy and up with the human spirit! We ARE America! God bless this great nation.
Nice comments from CNN.
http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-683852
The Political Scientists are a band from Alabama with a new song called “America’s Bank”. Please do us and yourself a favor and check it out on cd baby.
Union, union, union... should be individual, individual, individual. Support from someone who happens to be a teacher = good. Support from a union = bad
Unions and Wall St. have both fulfilled valuable functions and have by and large turned rotten.
The Political Scientists are a band from Alabama with a new song called,”America’s Bank”. Please do us and yourself a favor and check it out. http://cdbaby.com/cd/politicalscientists2
The Political Scientists are a band from Alabama with a new song,”America’s Bank”. Please do us and yourself a favor and check it out.http://cdbaby.com/cd/politicalscientists2
Wake up people! The OWS movement is being hijacked by organizations that support policies that will only make our problems worse and our people poorer!!! Here's the smartest guy I've seen at the protest thus far: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZmPWcLQ1Mk&feature=youtu.be
The people who largely make up the unions are good, honest, hardworking folks. The leadership are nothing but thugs, leeches, and users! They have soiled the name of hard working Americans with their classless acts, dishonesty, and win at all costs mentality. Their violent and coercive tactics frighten the rank and file from doing anything other than going along.
They are in bed with socialists, communists, and those who would have this country on its knees.
Shame. Shame on Union leadership!
What if the occupy wall street revolutionaries legally started their own union and everyone down the and across the country involved joined the same union? What if every american who felt the same way joined the union? wouldn't that constitute the largest labor union in the country or the world? How much power would that hold if the union then flooded the congress with lobbyists? Anybody know a good lawyer who could do the paperwork. My name is Louis Giogaia and if i can help with that my email is ljg8265@yahoo.com.
OWS should not associate with Unions.... Unions back OBAMA who is a wall street puppet. Obama gave $2 Trillion to wall street and that's where he gets most of his PAC money. Wake up people! Don't fall for organizations like Moveon.org or Labor Unions what support big government policies of bailouts, lobbyists approved regulations, and federal subsidies. Government is not the solution, it is the problem. PLEASE, be weary of large organizations that support our current governments policies or have a big govt political agenda!
Ahmed- we the people of the U.S. have the same problem, we do not approve of our government's actions. Let the people of Iran know that Americans are not evil, only our government is. We are fighting that now.
The following youtube video explains the federal reserve.. how it is not federal nor are there any reserves..the biggest scam on the American people ever....great information from G.Edward Griffin: "Creature from Jekyll Island 1 of 12" ...........................knowledge IS power
It started out as being a true federal reserve.... but it's not so now. And the crook Bernanke is the chairmain.... one of the big players in the financial meltdown.
The following youtube video explains the federal reserve.. how it is not federal nor are there any reserves..the biggest scam on the American people ever....great information from G.Edward Griffin: "Creature from Jekyll Island 1 of 12" ...........................knowledge IS power
also, I find it awesomely interesting that a resistance to end greedy money hording people on wallst has a donate button. the interesting part is this is a supposed leaderless resistance. so where does the money go? who decides where and how it gets spent? how do we know that it doesn't jsut go to some computer guy somewhere who turns around and invests in wall street? there are so many problems, holes, and stupid logic happenings that are in this so called resistance it's awesome.
you guys are idiots.
also, without money and business and wall street, we would all go hungry and die. not just a few of us who are to lazy to change their environment, and say "fuck it" and go sit in front of a building all day.
Been waiting years for this movement!! Thank you all and stay strong.
I wish I could be there to help support you all. Keep vigilante. Don't let this movement die. Don't stop even when they march in with their armies to scare you. Do this for you, do this for us, my family, your family, our families. They hope time will kill and heal the movement, that you'll phase out and grow lazy and 'go home'. Keep hope alive. I count on you for commitment to REAL American values and TRUE justice. I love you all please keep safe.
" WE THE PEOPLE" are behind you and support you..keep on keeping on.
a real american value is 'work hard, pay your bills and obey the laws- not be a scum sucking drain on society
A REAL American fights for their Constitutional rights when they are trampled on.
The more our government run institutions like ATF and other government sponsored Unions band together, the faster we can grow our government, keep Obama elected, and wipe out the private Sector!
Everyone likes to stay hush hush about Obama's focus, but I'm totally for wiping out so called 'individual exceptionalism' and bring in a new era of group mediocrity.
In our world, everyone is special, everyone is winners, and everyone stands toe to toe regardless of individual motivation and accomplishment - as it should be!
Great - unions are now on your side. What could possibly go wrong with this plan?
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This is just fantastic. We should remember that the first protests against the Vietnam war was started by young idealists who were also termed hippies by the established order. These so called young hippies went on to change the direction of the American war policy and in the process saved tens of thousands of American and vienam lives by forcing the end to this biggest massacre after the 2nd world war. Now these honourable young souls are showing us the way to bring the wall street honchos and the bankers who have destroyed the lives and the pensions of tens of millions of people around the globe and I am convinced that they will be successful as 99% of the world is solidly behind them. We love and adore you guys also here in Australia. We are indeed 99% and are with you in this noble crusade.
I just "love" how the right wing media machine labels the protesters as hippies, kids who don't want to work, losers, freeloaders, etc., and yet they were A-OK with all the Tea Party protests. Assholes.
I guess the Tea Party is made up of a bunch of white, mostly male, rich people who make others do their work for them.... since they had all that time on their hands to protest.
This is just fantastic. We should remember that the first protests against the Vietnam war was started by young idealists who were also termed hippies by the established order. These so called young hippies went on to change the direction of the American war policy and in the process saved tens of thousands of American and vienam lives by forcing the end to this biggest massacre after the 2nd world war. Now these honourable young souls are showing us the way to bring the wall street honchos and the bankers who have destroyed the lives and the pensions of tens of millions of people around the globe and I am convinced that they will be successful as 99% of the world is solidly behind them. We love and adore you guys also here in Australia. We are indeed 99% and are with you in this noble crusade.
Right on man! How much more dough do we want to see go out to buy bombs for the oil sucking corp fat cat? I understand keeping the citizens of the world safe and secure and support helping them but what about helping our own Nation and its people now? We are in a world of hurt right here in the U.S.A and need a new plan and a much better way of addressing the real problems. Corruption,pollution,infrastructure just for starters man! Unite and Fight the looters and polluters!
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Multiple journalists were attacked by the police!!
http://theintelhub.com/2011/10/06/journalists-attacked-by-nypd-at-occupy-wall-street-protests/
Over 5,000 Turn Out in Portland For Occupy Portland Protest http://theintelhub.com/2011/10/06/over-5000-turn-out-in-portland-for-occupy-portland-protest/
Thousands of people nationwide of all ages, political affiliations, and social status have joined together to stand up and fight for what they believe is right. I don't understand why people are hating on a movement that is the very definition of what this country is supposed to stand for. If you don't like it, too bad. For me personally, I am proud to be an American for the first time in a very long time. So stand up. Be heard. Do something constructive instead of sitting around bitching and trying to pin labels on everything. I hope this Occupation continues until we can actually affect some changes. Power to the People.
The Money policy is in-correct, the money emission authority is in a private company of Federal Reserve, they controll every thing like inflation and deflation to make their own profit. It's unfair for every American citizens. Supports you, you are so great,
The Money policy is in-correct, the money emission authority is in a private company of Federal Reserve, they controll every thing like inflation and deflation to make their own profit. It's unfair for every American citizens. Supports you, you are so great,
yep
How about some new lyrics to an old protest tune (Bob Dylan's)?
/
Come gather round children
and parents at home
and admit what the tidepool
around you has shown
that the things we filled up
have now dried to the bone
as the daylight is rapidly fading
come step out on the pavement
and pick up the groan
for the times, they could be changing
/
Come bankers and merchants
who monetize without heed
we don't care for your profits,
your wealth, or your greed
our families and neighbors are our only creed
if your souls to you were worth saving
you'd lie down on your face and acknowledge your need
for the times, they could be changing
/
Come Senators, Congressmen,
lend us your ears
don't speak anything now
please hold back your false tears
don't start making your bed
when your time's drawing near
all the pillars around you are caving
and your platform is lost
when your people don't fear
for the times, they will be changing
/
The line it is drawn
and the curse it is cast
the slow one now
will later be fast
as the present now
will later be past
and the order is rapidly fading
and the first one now
will later be last
for the times, they are a-changing
OVER 5000 PEOPLE HAVE SHOWED UP FOR THE FIRST DAY OF THE OCCUPY PORTLAND PROTESTS!! http://theintelhub.com/2011/10/06/over-5000-turn-out-in-portland-for-occupy-portland-protest/
Awesome!!
My name is David j. Tatum I wish to see, us come together in this movement, with a clear message of the 99% can be defined, Jobs, better education, government Etc . There must be a clear goal, and a vision, I believe people are ready, but they need to understand and be understood in the movement. http://www.facebook.com/david.j.tatum#!/groups/199769420061812/
AWESOME, I myself a substitute teacher looking for a teaching job for 2 years now...I'm glad everyone is standing up for the rights of the people!
Which people? You certainly don't mean the people who are employed by those evil banks. You don't mean the thousands of people EMPLOYED by the financial institutions and markets in this country. Your movement wants to collapse the system. What happens to all of those people when their employers are gone?
But you don't care. You don't care about anyone but YOU.
whoaaaaaaaaaaa taterhead you're awfully upset. Did you know BOA laid off 3500 already. If I didn't know any better Id think you are one of those wallstreet welfare recips screaming at the top of your lungs. Please get over yourself. This is not a you....This is a US! We The People!
Yeah!!!! And Verizon laid off a bunch of its people. Scum.
Please keep the unions out of this! Please? When the unions are involved, it stops representing the 99%
The Unions are part of the 99%. Anyone can endorse the 99%. It doesn't mean the 99% support their political polices.
when I say unions, I mean the big political group that is the "union" If you belong to a union, fine, but as another 99 percenter, I do not support your union "leadership" If you want a union, reorganize.
Your right, the 99% is not going to listen to any establishment leaders. But we need maintain an open policy to established groups to increase our active numbers.
Not if it aleinates people.
We do not need ANY special interest groups in Washington putting themselves above others.
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I'm a UAW retiree and I am with you in spirit. I would love to occupy with you but I am tied to my $7.50 an hour job that I need to supplement my pension due to increases in health care, utilites, gas and groceries and student loans!! I want you all to have the job of your dreams and an education that does not leave you in debt like me. I want you to have families and lots of love. Good luck!!
please share this image or post it where you can if you are in support: http://imgur.com/aTZGB
I thought you weren't affiliated with the unions? Looks like you're being infiltrated by the 1% already.
Ugh god, not public sector unions. OWS is a movement against the special privileges of the top 1% in the private sector, and their easy access to our politicians & laws, hence the title "Occupy Wall Street". Public service unions, unlike private sector labor unions that rightfully exist to counter labor bosses, are effectively special interests inherently opposed to the taxpayer (i.e. you), because the taxpayer is their employer.
So no... public sector unions have absolutely nothing to do with OWS. Don't let unrelated special interests steal the limelight.
I think that is a little unfair. You are saying that all workers have the right to organize against economic slavery except public sector workers. What happened to equal rights? If you want equal rights, they must be equal for all, not just who you choose.
Yeah the government sure screws its worker with all those cushy benefits and raises regardless of the general state of the economy.
Most government jobs ARE NOT cushy. Go learn something, please.
Those "cushy benefits" have gone away and so have the raises, especially since the anti government union movement started. But let me ask you something more important, why are you here? What is your goal? I mean you personally, what is your goal?
Good question.
For this to work there is one thing I must suggest. To all that feel we are being wrong and to those who don't... To strike out at corporations we have to shut the world down and reboot. Our government which has allowed companies to outsource and taken away revenues we had earned rely on front end services ie. Walmart relies on it's customer service offered by employees in store. Likewise we may all need a check but if we take away the most fundamental end of business for just one day, united as a unit how many companies would be crippled...?! how many jobs would return back to those who have strove and gone to school likewise we could also begin fighting as a people for our due wage...
The teachers unions are the most powerful and cash-plenty lobby in Washington. I support teachers but I also support education reform. AFT is just another example of self-serving interests that fight for a broken status quo rather than working for real change for students in public schools across America.
Amen!
Just because unions are supporting it, it doesn't mean they are taking over. Some of you are so easily brainwashed.
It is good that they are supporting it, that is their job afterall, but don't let them hijack it, PLEASE! It is too important to become another cog in the political machine. We need REAL change for ALL of our citizens, and that does not mean that we need to join a corrupt union.
I really don't think they will hijack it. Endorsing something doesn't mean hijacking it.
Salaam from Iran
Don’t afraid, don't afraid, we all together.
We don’t occupy everything only we see who occupy everything?
I applaud the courage and commitment of those standing up for the rights of citizens.
Best
Moein
Go for the green, Iran.
I am green in main land
That is right. Tinmoly,Chinese.
Occupy Wall Street is NOT affiliated with Unions, MoveOn, or ANY Dems or Repubs… http://tl.gd/dg872d
Keep on with that message, brother. We are not puppets of the establishment parties, unions and whatnot. We demand real change, not this republicrat garbage they've been forcing down our throats.
you are such a lying libturd
Yes exactly- anyone can join, but nobody gets to lead.
You guys are cooked. The pro's have arrived.
Just shows teachers still know best.
This is really awesome. I heard that the gas workers for Southern California Union are joining Occupy LA. I hope we are making progress on a list of top 10 Demands. I put together my own for consideration. Hope you can circulate it. Here is what I propose:
Yeah, the list can go on but it all starts with #1.
Check out my WEB site anytime at http://www.duffminster.com/times You could learn something there and I am linked here.
Thanks for hearing me out People. I am proud of you. Maybe this still is the Land of the Brave and the Home of the FREE.
One more thing.
One exception to #10, except for the Wall Street Criminals that were connected with the global financial meltdown through the failure to regulate themselves and OTC derivatives and the politicians who allowed Brooksley Born to trampled under when she tried to bring appropriate regulation to the markets.
Folks, you all generally seem to advocate some form of Collectivism (I will wait while you go to google to look it up).
Does not work. If you would like to see it in action (more accurately, Inaction), go spend time living with Hugo Chavez and his Hate America brethren).
Better still, wake up early, be string and SELF RELIANT and make a better life for yourselves and your families. Shame on you for wanting someone else to work hard, prosper, and then give much of the prosperity to a government bureaucrat who will take a nice chunk and the distribute to the masses. Be SELF RELIANT and stop looking for others or government to provide for you. While you look up the definition of Collectivism, also look up The Peter Principal and then understand.
You are mistaken on many points.
The 99% must stand together to challenge the 1%. Otherwise you will get nothing. They no longer believe that they need us. It is up to us to show them otherwise.
Self-reliance is a myth in our economic reality. Everyone relies on others - at the very least to produce what they need - in this economy. Earning money in order to pay for things is not self-reliance. You are relying on an economic system, on employers, and on the work of others. We all work together whether you recognize it or not.
Hugo Chavez along with most of the rest of South America have done well for themselves by getting out from under the boot of the first world's banksters, and perpetual debt. Now, Europe and North America are being tested.
Will we let the 1% decide for us how to live? Or will we decide for ourselves?
Check your facts. Look at Venezuela's external debt, nominally and as a percent of GDP and then review your comments.
I decided to put more facts down for ya:
The big blow to IMF http://www.brettonwoodsproject.org/art-507679
Bolivia also frees itself http://www.wdev.eu/wearchiv/531686979513d5c01.php
Venezuela free http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2007/may/01/venezuela.imf
South America did well for itself while the powerful in the US were distracted by the Middle East.
Look at South American debt as a whole, and the IMF's reduced role. The direction that South America is taking is away from control by the debt machine that is currently strangling Europe.
You should be looking at Barney Frank and Chris Dodd. Between Bill Clinton, Janet Reno, and now Comrade Obama and his socialistic gang in the Senate, they are sucessfully running this country into the toilet. And then you idiots try to blame the traders on wall street who play by the legislative law for this mess. Please remove your heads from your anal orifices.
You are only half way right. You could include every Republican since Reagan (and his and Faux's mentor - Nixon) in your diatribe as well. There's no doubt the democrats are a problem, but so is every Republican. And its been a long term problem with the party of the rich elephant in the room.
I worked in the private sector for 30 years and never needed a union. I used my education and brains to make myself valuable. I developed skills that were in demand so when it came time to change employers, I did. It wasn't perfect but I made out OK and now I'm retired at age 59.
You people should be protesting in Washington DC - the District of Corruption, if you are serious. From the $14.5 trillion debt to Social inSecurity to Medicare, Medicaid, the EPA, Department of Education and the Fast and Furious (selling guns to Mexican drug dealers), to wars in three countries, the Federal Government has created the biggest problems we have.
Every time the government screws up, we get more government. Barney Frank and Chris Dodd helped create the collapse of the housing market, the Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae bankruptcies and finally the bailouts and "stimulus" spending. Now we have more government in the form of the Dodd/Frank bill that forces the banks to raise consumer fees. Blame Congress and Obama for this, not the banks.
The EPA has issued regulations that will cut 8% of the electricity supply. Do they have any plans to replace it? Since that would require forethought, of course they don't have any plans to replace it. Obama wants to drive electricity costs skyward so look out, they'll be headed up soon.
Do a google search on the Gibson Guitar company inventory and you'll see that the Federal Government has confiscated their inventory, held it and not presented any charges. So the government has violated the 4th amendment.
Bottom line: the biggest problems we have were created and are being made worse, daily, in Washington, the District of Corruption. That is where you should be protesting.
LOL.....not yet...........the problem started in New York City...............lol
Go to Washington and protest then.
Also, check your facts. Social Security has not caused one penny of debt, and the moment you claim it does your other points are easily glossed over because it looks like you are spouting the dogma of the 1%.
If you honestly want to address the budget problem you need look no further than military spending. Its the biggest offender. We could cut $300 billion a year from the military and still be far and away the biggest military in the world. $300 billion is the cost of our foreign bases and wars.
OWS I have a demand for you. pay back the 2MM that NYC has spent on the police force during this joke of a protest. shocker, more people that contribute nothing and feel entitled. meanwhile i get up at 5am..work till 10pm...pay almost 50% in taxes, have no pension, barely have a 401k left and have always stood up to my debt obligations. its about time people stop feeling entitled, start doing something constructive for society and live up to their debt obilgations. when did it become ok for everyone to walk away from their loans? oh wait, but that is wall street's fault. face it, everyone is to blame.
Actually the NYPD's tab is being picked up by the wealthy. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/newsdebate/r/t-10237523/index.html?threadIndex=8
Is the expensive show of force by the police still a mystery to you? Blaming this on public demonstration is horribly misinformed and anti-american. You are aware of Right to Assembly aren't you?
OWS I have a demand for you. pay back the 2MM that NYC has spent on the police force during this joke of a protest. shocker, more people that contribute nothing and feel entitled. meanwhile i get up at 5am..work till 10pm...pay almost 50% in taxes, have no pension, barely have a 401k left and have always stood up to my debt obligations. its about time people stop feeling entitled, start doing something constructive for society and live up to their debt obilgations. when did it become ok for everyone to walk away from their loans? oh wait, but that is wall street's fault. face it, everyone is to blame.
If a debt was created by fraud, you either wipe the debt from the books or the other party tells you to fuck off. These banks went on a crime spree, robbed the country, the people and eventually each other, almost tanked the world's economy and then turned to socialism and begged us to bail them out. Fuck 'em. And personally, your own situation means absolutely nothing to anybody. If things in your life are as you say they are and you still support the status quo, you deserve what you get. I suppose you would have told our fore-fathers to quit protesting agsinst the British and good King George when they began taxing them for the benfit of the rich back in England or to fund wars the people in the colonies didn't want or approve of. You'd have made a great tory and supporter of King George.
Ignorant
Hey. That is why we there..........duh??????????????
Is the life you describe the life you want for yourself or your children? Sounds to me like you're being denied the most precious activity, and that is working to live instead of living to work. Cliche, I know, but isn't that what you're saying?
I pay back my debts because I signed up for them. No problem there. The problem I have is the hands that keep digging into my pockets, justified with ever more creative reasons, taking what it is I have worked for, and only because they can and are allowed to do so.
Did you post this on your Mac book, ipad or from your iphone? Wow the millions that Steve Jobs made and his great ideas really helped create jobs, etc. Wonder what would have happend if he was told he could not make any more money for the company...that he had to share the wealth with people that are not willing to accept a $7 job and instead sit on their #%@ to collect his wealth! You should be protesting on the White House lawn not on Wall Street where NOBAMA made his millions!!! Wake up peeps...you are not listening!!!!
Are YOU willing to accept a $7/hr job and be in poverty???? Get a frickin' clue, please. No one is saying that companies should have to give up their profits. People want the greed, manipulation, slave labor ($7/hr jobs), stealing, etc. to end.
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You assholes just don't understand. America is a business! We are here to make a profit... More importantly your "Utopia Society" you wish we have will never exist. You can occupy Wallstreet and bitch and moan about society or healthcare or whatever is your unorganized agenda is. While you're doing that and get corrupt unions(funded by the government) and people who have no clue, I'm making money(lots of it), living in a nice house, and living the American Dream. Go ahead hate me! Before you comment on my thread just realize the time you take to tell me I'm a bitch or slave it's time you could be doing something for yourselves. Keep up the good pointless fight! Go fuck yourselves and move to another country in search of the "Utopia" society that will never be!
Well said...Thank you!
kkpadre - congrats, same here. It's so easy to work for yourself and make income these days that I can't believe people are bitching and moaning for a JOB. The corporate job with pension at 65 barely exists anymore and these guys are fighting for the scraps.
phukk you libturds i hope the NYPD SHOOTS ALL OF YOU
Rush Limbaugh checking in with us.
phukk you libturds. i pray for your death
Or is it Michael Savage? Savage more likely.
My personal experience. I have a Master of Education. (Love teaching) My husband has a degree in teaching also. When we started a family we decided I wanted to have the chance to raise our children and we wanted more than 2 so day care would be hard to pay for. My husband left teaching and ultimately landed as an employee of Bank of America. He works hard for the bank but it is an honor to work for them. They give wonderful health and dental benefits. They allowed my husband to transfer to Michigan from Florida. When our last child was born they gave him a 3 month paid paternity leave so he could bond with the baby.
He gets to work from home so he doesn't miss our children's milestones. They have paid back their bailout with interest and treat their employees with dignity and respect. I get extremely sad when I see them demonized by celebrities like Dave Ramsey, the government and the media. It is like they are insulting one of my family members....they have been that good to us.
Not all corporations are bad. Costco is excellent. Bank of America is a wonderful employer of like 350,000 people. It truly frightens me how misinformed people are. We have always joked that working for the bank is like working for a union without anyone taking our money for dues....they actually match our 401K.
Oh and one more thing. The reason the layoffs happened was because they paid back the government before they were capable. You want to know why? Because if they didnt pay off all that debt, the CEO and others at the top could not get large bonuses. Bonuses? Get that? For helping to run the country into the ground. Bonuses!
But they also recently laid off 60,000 employees and have been actively engaged in anti consumer practices for years. I am sure they treat the employees well, assuming they are still there, but lets not forget about the warts.
Don't worry happymomma. They will go home when they run out of the peanut butter and grilled cheese makings that they stole from their parent's refrigerator.
Greetings from a former activist of the 70's. It's awesome to see people rebelling and finally expressing their anger. Give the Wall St. bums a scare and show them the POWER OF THE PEOPLE! My favorite old chant: Wall St., you liar, we'll set your ass on fire (not exactly peaceful, though). Mary on Martha's Vineyard
Wishing you all the best from Australia. Stay strong. It's time
Should the big banks, that already received trillions of dollars in bailout money, be taken over by the government? Is the nationalization of the big banks a good solution?
Some analysts say that the reason why Brazil was one of the first countries in the world to recover from the world crisis in 2009 was because the country has big government-owned banks, that helped boosting the economy out of the recession, and that are great instruments for social goals (even when those banks are profitable and didn't registered a single quarter of losses in the last 10 years.).
In the USA, the state of North Dakota is the only that has a state-owned bank. The bank is doing very well, with good profits, and as of September 2010, the state's unemployment rate was the lowest in the nation at 3.7% and it never touched 5 percent since 1987, the state with the nation's lowest unemployment rate.
Should all the big Wall Street banks become government-owned banks, having social goals, and a transparent management?
I think that would be a great idea.
Iceland went into financial meltdown, because their banks that were government-owned were changed to private banks.... and then all kinds of deregulation happened. Both of those things (and the greedy people who had the control) caused their financial meltdown.
No, they should not be "nationalized". How, exactly, would you go about doing that in any case? Would you just steal them from the shareholders? Firing squads? How?
The government could just run a better bank and drive them out of business. I mean, they only exist because the government loans THEM money at lower rates than they loan US... the same money too. A government bank would just be cutting out a very, very, very greedy middleman.
Since the government already gave trillions of dollars of bailout money to them, the government could simply take over the banks, and become the major shareholder, with 51% of shares. Just like India nationalized their 14 largest banks overnight in 1969. Or just like all railroads in the USA were nationalized as the Railroad Administration during World War I, on December 26, 1917.
listen up idiots: the gov was paid back all the money they paid into the banks, at a profit!! small fact you nimrods seem to overlook.
yes seize jpmorgans 70 trillion in derivatives debt! Then out national debt is 84.8 trillion! Yay!
I'm sure they will run and operate the banks just as well as they have these other institutions. US Postal Service - BROKE Social Security - BROKE Fannie Mae and Freddie Mack - BROKE Medicare and Medicaid - BROKE AMTRAK - Has never made a profit War on Drugs - FAILED Cash for Clunkers - Went broke in the same year it was established
Government has a perfect 100% failure rate when attempting to run enterprise best suited for the private sector and a record that proves that each and every “service” shoved down our throats by an over-reaching government turns into disaster, how could any informed American trust our government to run or even set policies for the nation's banking industry.
You are one of the most naive people I've yet to come across in any forum. You are either extremely young or simply an idiot.
The U.S. Post Office is NOT run by the federal government. The government only appoints its board members but doesn't have anything to do with how it runs. It runs itself, makes its own profits, and receives NO taxpayer money of ANY kind. The ONLY reason it "owes" the government money is because of a bullshit bill that was passed under Bush 43 and signed by him, which forces the USPS to put away/pay to the federal government obscene amounts of money for future years (75 years into the future) for retirement for its employees. USPS would have big profits if it wasn't for this bullshit law. The aim of the right wing is to completely dismantle USPS. USPS delivers more mail than any other company does and delivers mail to places where UPS, FedEx, etc. won't deliver. USPS is the 2nd largest civilian employer (not counting the federal government) in the country behind only Wal-Mart.
Please learn the facts before spouting bullshit.
AMTRAK is subsidized (is partly owned but is not solely owned by the federal government) the federal government. ALL transportation systems in the world are subsidized by their governments. AMTRAK is no different.
Social Security and Medicare are NOT broke. That is a lie started by the right, so that they can take the money and piss it away on what they want while getting rid of the programs.
Quit drinking the bullshit right wing propaganda punch.
The government has A LOT to do with many aspects of the Postal Service. For example, setting rates. It takes two years for the USPS to get approvals to raise rates. That's two years of losses. But their current financial troubles are due to a 2004 bill requiring them to finance 75 years of retiree health insurance in only 10 years. That's health coverage for employees who haven't even been born yet. It was a poison pill concocted by the shipping lobby.
The bill actually was passed and signed in 2006... but you are right about the other details. I wasn't aware that the government regulates the rates.
Ive been saying this all along Swiss.Even though alot of people opposse MichaelMoores points, ALL should see his movie "CAPOTLISM, A LOVE AFFAIR"! People please do your homework before you post inaccurancies. Also no matter how the 1% try to get rid of the USPS by privitization,they can't. The Postal Service is written into the Constitution(you can correct me if Im wrong) Ben Franklin was its first Post Master!
It is in the Constitution.
Not exactly true. Postal service will run no better private. Figure it out. They were set up to fail under Bush as part of the drive to gobble up public assets. Who was behind it? WHO DO YOU THINK? ... Hmmmn? Postal would be doing OK without the Bush 5 billion annual 75 year double pension rule. It has been Wall st. all along that has brought us to the place where corporate patsies like you advocate for removing government by the people completely from the picture. They and their conservative minions along with Democratic help have booby trapped one government program after another to destroy the public's confidence in any public domain, agency or program. They are all too ready to slurp up the remains which they themselves have tattered. Spare us the anti-labor libertarian diatribe. Unless you have worked in a union position and negotiated yourself, you wouldn't really know much about it. US corporate top level people are the most grossly overcompensated in the world compared to their employees because labor is weak and doesn't keep them in check. The worst union 'bosses' have nothing on the CEO's and bankers. It takes Labor to open the books otherwise you would never see and wouldn't have a CLUE about what they are getting away with so....you go get a clue.
RIGHT!
EXACTLY!!!!!
taterhead: if you keep acting like this nobody'll want to hang out with you.
Just who Are you with your consistent negativity. We don't need people like you. We The People..the 99% are perfectly aware of what is going on.Which is WHY we are out in the streets. We've had ENOUGH! And we don't need negative trolls like you!
Taterhead is so fitting for this person.
This is so funny. You don't need ideas that don't agree with yours? You've had enough of what? Discussion that doesn't fit in with your worldview?
You're not even marching on the right people. The government fucked you over - they changed the rules that allowed Wall Street to grow unchecked. It's like if they asked you how much Social Security you would like to get - is it really amoral of you to say, "as much as possible?" You don't think the AARP and Unions do the same shit as Wall St in trying to take from the public.
Which in turn leads to the ultimate owner of the blame... people like us. People like us that have never thought out the end results of our votes, the end result of not participating in our republic. That is changing (and OWS is a start, if a misguided one) but the anger is all in the wrong place.
This is so funny. You don't need ideas that don't agree with yours? You've had enough of what? Discussion that doesn't fit in with your worldview?
You're not even marching on the right people. The government fucked you over - they changed the rules that allowed Wall Street to grow unchecked. It's like if they asked you how much Social Security you would like to get - is it really amoral of you to say, "as much as possible?" You don't think the AARP and Unions do the same shit as Wall St in trying to take from the public.
Which in turn leads to the ultimate owner of the blame... people like us. People like us that have never thought out the end results of our votes, the end result of not participating in our republic. That is changing (and OWS is a start, if a misguided one) but the anger is all in the wrong place.
None of what you have to say is relevant when a movement of this gravity begins. All the anger is justified whether or not you are capable of understanding it. And all together it moves in the right direction, even though you are too small to see it.
The Bank of North Dakota is state-owned, and is one of the most profitable banks in the United States.
All the government-owned banks in Brazil are highly profitable.
There is no inherent reason why a government-owned company can't be profitable. The examples I gave above show it.
The privately held banks are just middlemen.
Taxpayers->government->banks->taxpayers
Do some homework and stop speaking in generalities. There are many many profitable banks and credit unions in the US. The major banks (which are nationalized in truth through the FED which is the Central Bank) are the ones that got caught up in bad loans (pushed and prodded by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mack by the way) and foolish speculation. You act as if every bank but the one in North Dakota is failing.
Again you show some serious naivete.
Credit unions don't exist to make profits. They are solely owned by their members.... the people who put their money in them. Get a clue.
I don't see anything where leftistperson stated that the only bank making a profit is the government-owned one in North Dakota. The point of mentioning it is that a government-owned bank wouldn't get away with the bullshit that the private banks here got away with, AND that government bank in North Dakota is doing fine and makes a profit.
Exactly. That was my point. Of course there are private banks that are profitable. My point was: it's not true that all government-owned companies are not profitable and always go broke. There many government-owned banks in the world that are profitable. The Bank of North Dakora is an example. The Brazilian banks are another example. A government-owned bank can be an instrument for achieving social goals and boosting economic development, and be a profitable company, AT THE SAME TIME. Of course, the profits won't be so astronomical as it would be if the bank was just seeking profits at any cost.
EXACTLY!!!! I got your point right away. And thanks for the info on the government-owned bank in N.D. I didn't know about that. It's good to know.
Agreed - I almost can't tell if leftistperson is being serious or a troll. Probably just naive and without a clue.
The top 6 banks in the US are guilty of fraud so massive they should be charged with treason. They should be seized and their assets returned to their customers in the form of debt payoffs and deficit reduction. Make this the demand of the 99% and everyone except the 1% will support it!!!
YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!
AMEN
from australia, we salute you, brothers and sisters. Revolution!..... good to see the internets being used for something good.
Here from Brazil we support you . The brazilian press is not publishing what is happening out there in US, but we are sending e-mails with a link to your site and with photos posted there. Good luck. Jorge.
I am Ahmed I'm from Iran We never had a problem with the people of America We have a problem with your government's wrong policies For example, the war in Afghanistan and Iraq And economic domination over the world I think I know this Good luck in the Wall Street I will always remember you
And most of us agree.... the ones here who have brains and know how to use them. The conservative people here are the ones who love war and who support imperialism. Us open minded, progressive people hate it and don't want it. We don't have anything against the people of other countries and wish our government and military would keep their noses out of other countries' business.
It's not that simple. Liberal people love war too. They're just better at finding someone to blame it on. But if you talked to the average middle american, conservative or liberal, I think they'd be against much of the things, wars included, that are done in their name.
I'm talking about citizens, not politicians. And almost all of the conservatives I know are very in favor of war and want more of it..... and they love their guns. Most of my friends are liberals, and ALL are against war. War is a mantra of the conservative. Maybe not all conservatives are for it, but overall, they are.
I guess that depends on where you live. Most of my conservative friends are very pro-military, but very anti-war. They're more isolationist. But yeah, the politicians, both sides of the aisle, are the pro-war crowd. I mean, doesn't it seem horribly ironic that our liberal Nobel-peace-prize-winning president has actually involved us in more war than his conservative predecessors? Elephants or Jackasses, they're all animals.
I don't get how people can be pro-military but anti-war. It seems very contradictory to me. I don't agree that Obama has put us more into war. Bush is the one who sent us to both Iraq and Afghanistan. And I don't call either one of them wars. They were invasions. I just wish we could get out of both places and reduce our world military bases greatly.
I think they believe we should be able to defend our country if need be, but that we shouldn't be poking ourselves into the affairs of others. I think a lot of the gun-worship has the same roots: they want to be able to defend their family, but they don't want to go shoot up the mcdonalds.
I wish we could get out too. And build a time machine so we could go back and warn people with evidence that we were lied to about the WMD in Iraq. But both corrupt parties voted for both invasions.
Well, yes, we should be able to defend our country.... but we do WAY MORE than that. We are imperialists via our military (and government) that has bases in almost every country in the world. That's NOT defense. That's terrorism and imperialism.
Gun worship is a sickness. Wanting to be able to defend yourself and being in love with guns are two different things. The conservatives take it way too far.
Exactly my thoughts and probably most people's, when shown the facts. But I still don't believe you can distill it down to a party affiliation.
I do believe you can distill it down to a party affiliation. It's not hard to see. Part of the Tea Party mantra is that guns are scared. If you don't believe me, check out their web site. And it's not liberals who are pushing for more and more gun rights. It's the right wing, while the liberals want more gun control. The conservatives (regardless of party) are the ones who love their guns so much. I want to protest myself, too... and those around me.... but I don't own a gun, I don't want a gun, and I don't worship guns. There's something going on inside the mind if one worships guns so much.
http://www.teaparty.org/about.php (take note of #3 and #5)
I am a progressive, and I love my 2cnd Amendment right. I will not support ANY movement that seeks to minimize Americans personal freedoms. <3 I am all for OWS, but please, slow your roll a bit. :) Remember, all freedoms are scary. That's why our founding fathers chose to identify them as inalienable, meaning, of course, that they recognized that we were BORN with them and they could not be revoked by any governmental agency. The scariest of our fundamental rights is freedom of expression. Look at us use that one now! <3! Lets please remember in the coming months to demonize the real criminals here, not each other. As a woman who is 5'2', 110 lbs, and who works in the inner city with young adults in bad situations, I can unashamedly say: "I love my gun." Walk a mile in my shoes. I am one of you. I am the 99%. <3 Remember me! <3
I'm talking about obsession with guns.
Needing your gun for protection because of your career and loving and worshipping it in a way that many people I know do are two different things, IMO. The people I know who love their guns and worship them DO NOT need them for protection as you do. They love them in much more of a wild West kind of way. Taking guns to marches and rallies and town hall meetings and places where they don't belong and wanting to be able to take them to bars and to college and so on is what I'm talking about. The ones I know have multiple guns. They hoard them, so to speak. There's something going on with the mind there.... similar to those who thinks they need millions upon millions and billions upon billions of dollars and it still isn't enough. There is a difference there.
What happened to the Green Revolution? I have been waiting for Iran to take it back up.
The Green Revolution got stamped out because the protesters were unarmed. In the face of ruthless men, citizens must secure their rights with guns. Thankfully we live in a nation of laws so that people can "peaceably assemble" to petition "for redress of grievances". The Iranian people, unfortunately do not, and so they were brutally suppressed because they had no arms.
Peace, good will and brotherhood to all. We must break the vicious cycle of greed in this country. Kindness and generosity will overcome!!! Love all your brothers and sisters, even those that hate us. Buddha magic!!!!
OHHHHH GREED! I'm greedy!
I've seen little more than spoiled, bored, over-educated, but astoundingly ignorant, youth at these "protests". Maybe if the teachers are joining them, these "educators" could take the time to teach some of these losers something USEFUL instead of the leftist drivel they've dished for the 12 to 16+ years they had them as a captive audience in our taxpayer-funded schools and universitites. I may be in the bottom "99%", but I don't blame the other 1% for my lot - and I identify far more closely with the 50% of our Great Nation who bear the lion's share of the tax burden. Go back home to your parents' basement in CT and, for the love of God, take a shower!
Looks like the Tea Party is checking in. I thin Glen Beck still has a website if you don't like this.
Yea, biggovernment.com just posted (another?) article linking here, so I think that has something to do with all the angry birds flocking in.
aaaahhh hah hahahh, TEA Party! You slay me. There is no Tea Party. It's as much a sham as these "protests" are fools tilting at windmills. Thanks for the chuckle, though.
Sure there isn't. Say hello to the Koch brothers and Rupert Murdoch for me.
There are two Tea Parties. One is bought and paid for the other was grassroots and now disenfranchised. They tapped the same anger except misguided it at the gov when its the special interests pulling the strings. Wall St investment bankers being the largest of course. The 99% should consider demanding the FairTax instead of raising taxes. This would bring support from the disenfranchised Tea Party supporters who are not bought. We need to unite the 99% and not divide it!
On taxes.....My opinion on taxes is that they do not matter much to most people. Don't get me wrong but I just think the focus gets lost when we start getting into taxes. Think about what happened when the focus in our politics went from jobs to the debt and taxes. All of a sudden, no one cared about jobs (which was the most important thing) and everyone was talking debt and taxes. Please understand this was no mistake. This is where the right always steers the conversation. We need to make jobs, corporate money in politics and corporations selling out the people to be the issue. What I am saying is that the Tea Party needs to get away from the Taxed Enough Already issues and back to the common issues. Also, the movement really does not fit in with the narrative that I hear too often which is that all of these people protesting are lazy dirtbags who want a welfare state. As for the government, I agree it was misdirected because there are many government institutions which could be very good for the people but due to corporate money and lobbying they are made ineffective. As for the fair tax, I just think we should be for a fair wage first. In addition, we should be for a graduated capital gains tax so that people making billions pay a larger percentage than those just getting by or those with 401k accounts. I am of the opinion that the rich can pay more for the same reason they can pay more for a house.....they can afford it. And if they are going to keep that much wealth, they can give some of it back. The reason they are the 1% is because of the breaks they get at the expense of the rest of us.
Yeah idk about this... the individuals in these unions should be standing with us - not as union members but as the 99%. all these unions want is whats best for them, they probably don't give 2 shits about financial sector corrupting washington which is what i thought this was about...
You are making a common mistake which is separating the organization that is a union from its membership. The people in unions know they are under attack from many of the same forces you mention. Just look at Wisconsin. And it is because of this kind of thinking (no offense). What would happen if the people had no power to band together and organize? That is what the anti union movement seeks to do.
I'm actually a big supporter of unions but I feel like this movement should transcend politics or affiliations to other groups... and when you come to an OWS rally you come as one of the 99%, not as a member of this or that organization - whatever it may be. I don't think I'm being anti-union? Either way I respect your response - no offense taken of course.
Oh yes...and I thought it was a little over the top for the union leaders to have a bigger microphone than everyone else....but they provide numbers and you need numbers. I would like to know where the civil rights movement is on this as well. If you want marching, they can get it done and they arent afraid of confrontation.
Has anybody seen "Waiting for Superman"? cough
Yes, it's a crappy movie which captures the inadequacies of the education system but completely misses the point. Education is misdirected in this country (through standardized testing and the No Child Left Behind Act) and criminally underfunded. We could put more money into education without raising taxes on anyone if we ended our pointless wars and slashed military funding. Instead our government would rather kill children overseas than invest in children at home.
Why do my comments keep disappearing?
My question is, "What does this group actually stand for?" I have not seen a concise goal for the group to achieve. Not to come off as rude or fowl, but this group is a political institution from what I see.
Wrong. You don't get the concept of the 99%. Its about finding solutions that benefit the 99% instead of the existing system which only benefits the 1%. If we endorse one policy then we are no longer the 99%. If you want to know what the top polling political issue is, it's campaign finance reform. Once the money is out of politics, then we can have change that benefits the 99%
Please call it the 98%. Until you define clear goals that I (and many like me) can rally behind, then don't include me.
that disappoints me. i thought this had potential. it's all over now. union shills will take over post-haste
Yes, hard working underpaid civil servants trying to ensure our children are educated are "union shills".
Lay off the media kool aid.
There has been a massive "wealth redistribution" that has gone on for the last 30 years. The top 1% now controls over 42% of the entire nation's wealth and the top 10% now controls over 70% of the entire nation's wealth. The bottom 50% now controls a meager 2% of all of the nation's wealth.
The middle class spends their wealth on corporate goods/services and the corporations have redistributed their wealth by paying their profits all out to the executives and shareholders. Middle class wages have stagnated for 30 years while executive wages have gone up 256% in since 1980. Even last year executive compensation went up another 11%. The top 1% now controls over 42% of the entire nation's wealth. We have not seen numbers like this since the great depression. The top 10% controls 70% of the entire nation's wealth. All of our nation's wealth has been redistributed into the hands of the few.
The middle class was roped into replacing wages with easy credit. So instead of paying people living wages, corporations fooled us into thinking we were doing well and could afford things by giving us easy credit instead of wages. Instead of having wages to buy t.v.'s, furniture, etc. we were given easy loans. So the middle class became a debtor class. There used to be a tax disincentive to paying out all of corporate profits at the top because in the 1950's income was taxed at 90% over a certain amount money and now that tax disincentive has disappeared. In 1950's the highest marginal tax rate was 90%. In 1960-1970's it was 70%. In 1980's it dropped to 49%. In 1990's dropped to 39%. Under George Bush it dropped to a mere 36%. We have had over 30 years of massive tax cuts for the wealthy.
There is now no tax disincentive to paying out all of the corporate wealth at the top. And there is no employee bargaining power because now less than 12% of all of our jobs are unionized. Corporate profits are at an all time high, healthcare company profits are at an all time high, and oil profits are at an all time high. We don't have a healthcare crisis we have a healthcare company profit-taking crisis that no politician will doing anything about. Healthcare and oil companies have enjoyed a decade of record profits while we have had a decade of massive premiums for little coverage and a decade of outrageous gas prices.
The problems are: 1) deregulation of the banks by the Republican-controlled congress in 1999; 2) hedge funds are exempt from regulation; 3) tax system no longer has a disincentive against paying outrageous executive salaries (highest marginal tax rate has dropped from 90% to 36%); 4) commodities market is exempt from regulation (Republican-controlled Congress exempted it in the Commodities Future Modernization act of 2000); 5) the Supreme Court has ruled that corporations can spend unlimited funds in campaign elections (thus politicians on both sides favor the wealthy/corporations) and 6) the rise of corporate/billionaire propaganda media "news." Because of the need to raise massive sums in politics today, we no longer have a party that represents the people. The Democrats have to chase the corporate and big money donors too.
What can we do about this: 1) re-instate Glass-Steagall Act regulating the banks; 2) regulate hedge funds and the commodities market (because the commodities market is not regulated speculation has caused prices for commodities to go through the roof); 3) get rid of the money in politics (have federally funded elections with clear limits on spending and no outside groups allowed to have ads); 4) get rid of 1980's laws stating that corporations' only duty is to maximize shareholder profits; and 5) regulate "news" channels and newspapers (no more "slanted opinion news" masquerading as hard news) and reinstitute the fairness doctrine across all news outlets to ensure that both sides get equal time.
Corporations should have duties to society and to their workers too. They should have to balance their duties to maximize shareholder profits against their reinstated duties to their employees and to society. The laws saying that corporations' only duty is to maximize shareholder profits have led to the destruction of long-term business plans and care for their workers and have created short-term profit monsters at the expense of workers and society.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703992704576307332105245012.html
http://heritageinstitute.com/governance/compensation.htm
Thank you. I call it the right wing propaganda punch.
Yeah, I just dont get it......you know what this is.....for too long we have allowed people to bad mouth things like unions, just like we let corporations do the wrong things for too long. It is time to end the dominance of the Sarah Palin thought pattern in the country.....dont you understand why you are getting attacked by the Tea Party types?
It IS a tax grab scheme then, after all.
Oh, just go Galt already, please.
OK.
Occupy Wall Street is NOT affiliated with Unions, MoveOn, or ANY Dems or Repubs… http://tl.gd/dg872d
Ummm, yeah, Occupy Wall Street is well on its way to being co-opted by them all... Politicians have a base to rally, unions have a dwindling membership to replenish, MoveOn has nothing better to do with its time or resources. OWS is a co-opted left-leaning organized mob.
I agree that OWS is not, but the Tea Party is. That alliance would absorb OWS and make it irrelevant. And Hank, some of this is about taxes and equality but it is also about wages and equality. I have rarely seen the Tea Party come out for true equality on both.
I hope you are right. But this is an official news post, and Faux News is already casually referring to it as an 'anticapitalist protest'. They have a way of 'creating truth' to fit their own agenda. Seen it, been there, watched it happen. From your friendly local neo-nazi racist Tea Party initiator.
I wouldn't worry too much about Faux News. They are becoming increasingly irrelevant.
anonrez, they are quite accomplished disinfo artists, so they may still be a threat. but i hope you are right
I appreciate the warning Hank - I hope we can stay on the right track.
riggght.... you moron. it was organized and started by steve lerner of SEIU.
Take your conspiracy bullshit elsewhere.