Forum Post: You're just an angry mod and don't stand for anything!
Posted 13 years ago on Oct. 8, 2011, 10:05 a.m. EST by DPB
(11)
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Stop bitching and get a job or create your own. Here's another idea, if you're so concerned about corporate greed, why don’t you leave behind all of your cell phones, laptops, clothes, and shoes that you purchased from corporations. Also, if you're so concerned about corporate greed, why are you covering your faces? I know why, because you’re an angry mod and you don't stand for anything. This country is not a democracy. It’s a republic. Those of you that can read, I suggest you read the constitution. What's your message anyway or are you all too high and drunk to explain.
I have been posting and blogging about taking the money out of politics for several years now and the following has been my spiel.
Here is my simple law that would rectify this problem in our elections process.
"Candidates can only receive campaign contributions (cash or advertising or physical support) from those constituents they seek to represent."
No National Parties interfering in state or local races, no State Parties interfering in local races.
Limits on spending: $5000 for local offices at county levels; $25000 for State offices (state reps and senators); $100,000 for US Congress; $250,000 for Senatorial.
Politicians should be able to prove they can raise and finance their own budgets from their constituents before they manager our public budgets.
Who would get hurt the most?
The media. They're the ones who reap all the money from the election cycles through the ad dollars.
Alan Ramsey chefalanramsey@yahoo.com
So you think that the inherent inequality in wealth and education across our country will allow for fair elections if campaign finances can only be drawn from local constituents? Maybe you can explain to me how a local representative from an impoverished area will be able to compete with a politician running from an area with a much larger economic base? It seems that pre-existing inequalities will only continue to manifest and stratify as we trap people in their own enclaves of existence. Think about it.
"Government is instituted for the common good; for the protection, safety, prosperity, and happiness of the people; and not for profit, honor, or private interest of any one man, family, or class of men; therefore, the people alone have an incontestable, unalienable, and indefeasible right to institute government; and to reform, alter, or totally change the same, when their protection, safety, prosperity, and happiness require it."- John Adams
Any questions?
How many accounts have you created for this same boring post? Go back to Politico and peddle your bullshit there. There is a revolution going on here that doesn't have time for paid trolls.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pin8fbdGV9Y
you mean mob? what a moron
Wall Street is scared or why post on some forum that you think goes nowhere? When the GOP says we are a mob this tells you they are worried. They know this is a non-violent movement for real change.
Conservatives cannot complain about how Obama is creating unemployment, but then say that there is no lack of employment, that there are jobs growing in the trees.
Only 3 percent of Americans are either millionaires or above. If the free market is so wonderful then why only three percent? Look at socialist Europe, you can eat off the streets! Look at the social life! Look at the subways and massive amounts of beauty.
We should be ashamed of a society where people sleep under bridges! Is this hard.
Conservatives cannot complain about how Obama is creating unemployment, but then say that there is no lack of employment, that there are jobs growing in the trees.
Only 3 percent of Americans are either millionaires or above. If the free market is so wonderful then why only three percent? Look at socialist Europe, you can eat off the streets! Look at the social life! Look at the subways and massive amounts of beauty.
We should be ashamed of a society where people sleep under bridges! Is this hard.
Then go live in Europe A-Hole.
I want to make America Europe. We do have to school the masses, obviously.
the only thing that matters right now is CAMPAIGN FINANCE REFORM, unless you get the big money out of politics, no change whatsoever will occur, this should be the focus of the protests, we need to have honest politicians that work for the public before any thing else can get done, campaign finance reform (ending corporate personhood, kicking the lobbyists out of the Washington) is the perfect starting point. It really is a no brainer that this should be the one thing we can all agree on. Because unless we do this, all those other demands that people have will never be addressed, not in a millions years.
Down witht hte Mods, and the Admins! Power to the People!!
Where is the money? Post the Totals on the front pages.
Never mind we've been fooled again.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/the-nwo-just-owned-our-asses/
I'd love to create my own business if I could get a bank loan. I have a 800+ credit rating, a doctoral degree, and owned a business for 20 years. I have assets to put on the line to get a loan, yet, 6 banks won't lend money to develop a viable, local business that would employ people in my community that currently has a 22% unemployment rate. My tax dollars went to loan money to the likes of Goldman Sachs and AIG. Angry?
Read your own thoughts - it sounds to me like you are a really angry person whose only logic is to commit ad homonyms and post-hoc-ergo-prompter hoc logical errors. Look it up.
You refer to the Constitution? I'll bet the Brits considered the writers of the Constitution an angry mob...LOL. Too drunk or high? A projection maybe?
How's that doctoral degree working out for ya riverwomen. Do you live in a van down by the river? Liberals like you blame everyone else for your failures. Your business failed because YOU failed. Not because of Wall Street or Corporate America. I got a loan a few months ago. No problems. You know why? Because I have a business plan that makes sense. What type of business were you in for 20 years? Making trinkets and teaching liberalism. No wonder it failed.
what was the business? why after 20 years did you pack it in? is the business viable? would you be interested in a micro loan? And on the subject of micro loans wouldn't that be a reasonable way for your movement to circumnavigate the FRB system? Rather then running through the streets wouldn't this be the start to an actual solution? Just askin'
Hi Touchit,
I sold the business 12 years ago and I've been teaching business for 12 years. Of course I would be interested in a micro loan but that wouldn't suffice for start-up funding. I don't think we need to think in terms of working singular strategies. I suspect people are running in the streets because they are tired of waiting in line for jobs on the streets.
It is just a thought. It is funny ,( and I am not comparing you to the following) a group like Kiva can be fairly successful in providing micro loans to the developing world yet no one or at least no one I am aware of is willing to try the same strategy in the US. Good luck with finding financing. I funded my business in a pass the hat fashion but I am sure you have already thought of that.
Hi Touchit,
I truly appreciate you for sharing knowledge and for demonstrating that we can be successful without depending on banks to fund us in traditional ways. A decade ago I had the privilege of teaching and working with single mothers in micro-economic business development.
Despite the many challenges we have in America it is nothing compared to the struggles of the third world.
Thank you....
Leslie
I agree. micro-economics applied in a western nation... hmmm maybe I am on to something.
I am big on Kiva after spending 3 weeks in Peru. I have never witnessed poverty like I witnessed in Juliaca.
Job? Heck, we're creating an entirely new nation.
We in Olancho are already setting an example that can be replicated everywhere. This new nation is a work in progress [just like our website]. The people of Olancho wanted to be independent and prosperous and thus embraced joining forces with outsiders who brought a diverse set of ideas and skills.
Olancho was founded by an alliance of rugged individualists who succeeded in ridding irrational and dangerous industrial society precepts to create a resilient nation based on equitable prosperity, small-scale production and an economy limited by the efficiencies of nature.
Olancho seceded from Honduras in 2011 to become the first energy-independent constitutional republic that integrates liberty, self-reliance and free-enterprise with permaculture, agro-ecology, soil husbandry, food security and natural resource conservation. The people of Olancho have reasserted the legitimate jurisdiction of private rights and environmental stewardship against unsustainable living, rampant consumerism, economic shocks, oppressive oligarchies and engorging bureaucracies in Latin America, the United Sates and Europe.
Olancho is the idea that human prosperity and thriving ecosystems are achievable through the application of renewable energy and appropriate technologies, sustainable agricultural practices and good government.
The economy of Olancho is heavily weighted to the primary sector. Small private enterprises intensively manage highly productive farms and related industries. Each community maximizes its ability to sustain itself with food, water, energy and other resources necessary for human health, well being and prosperity. Surpluses are traded between communities within Olancho and imports and exports are traded with other nations.
Economic growth is strengthened by a unified market, a supportive political-legal system, vast natural resources, a culture that values entrepreneurship and a commitment to investing in material and human capital.
*
www.republicofolancho.com
*
At no other time are the masses of the people in a position to come forward so actively as creators of new political, economic and social orders as at a time of revolution.
¡Viva la Revolución! ¡VIVA OLANCHO!
flooding again
I personally am just worried about the wealthy exerting more than their fair share of control and influence over what happens in this country. Getting rid of the current system of lobbying (which is just legalized bribery and/or extortion) is the only way we can assure that everyone has an equal voice. I do believe that this movement needs focus and specific goals, and shouldn't be allowed to be equated with the "hippy" (peace) movements of the sixties as that image has been stigmatized and won't be taken seriously. This guy's belligerent response is an example of the kind of rhetoric that this movement is bound to generate if it doesn't have a specific focus, message and goal. Corporations don't need to be demonized, only regulated. The corporate conscience needs to change, so that they are motivated by ethics as well as profit.
In contemporary usage, the term democracy refers to a government chosen by the people, whether it is direct or representative. The term republic has many different meanings, but today often refers to a representative democracy with an elected head of state, such as a president, serving for a limited term, in contrast to states with a hereditary monarch as a head of state, even if these states also are representative democracies with an elected or appointed head of government such as a prime minister. This isn't about abolishing corporations or the products they make. It is about responsibility. I can spell it if you like.
R-e-s-p-o-n-s-i-b-i-l-i-t-y. And it hopefully is about enlightening the ignorant who will ultimately benefit from from an "angry mod?" that is TCB. (Taking Care of Business). I try a little exercise in the morning it keeps me from being angry and clears my head. oh, and stay away from the vitriol.
hic . .conshtitooshon
hic . . .da shame one youall be ushing for toilet paper
hic . . yup . . .hesh talking about da conshitooooshon
hic . . .we shoo riled up we a gonna feed it to ya . .hic
I'm just an Independent voter. I think you need to have a chosen leader, a very strong measured person (such as Jon Stewart from The Daily Show) who can articulate your grievances and fight for you/us at rallies. Then, you need a name for your movement, as did the Tea Party who have been fairly successful. You can then mobilize voters, via social networks or TV, to vote against any politician who thinks the banks and Wall Street aren't greedy and controlling our wealth! If you don't do these things, your movement will likely fritter out. I know a good social movement when I see one. I'm 74 yrs old and have seen some of the best marches for justice. Good Luck!
I have been posting and blogging about taking the money out of politics for several years now and the following has been my spiel.
Here is my simple law that would rectify this problem in our elections process.
"Candidates can only receive campaign contributions (cash or advertising or physical support) from those constituents they seek to represent."
No National Parties interfering in state or local races, no State Parties interfering in local races.
Limits on spending: $5000 for local offices at county levels; $25000 for State offices (state reps and senators); $100,000 for US Congress; $250,000 for Senatorial.
Politicians should be able to prove they can raise and finance their own budgets from their constituents before they manager our public budgets.
Who would get hurt the most?
The media. They're the ones who reap all the money from the election cycles through the ad dollars.
Alan Ramsey chefalanramsey@yahoo.com
I think you might be watching too much Fox News. The banking systems in this Country have become vastly under regulated and need to be fixed immediately.
totally agree with what is going down. we need to keep this peaceful but loud. we need to let the those in charge know what the "99%" are feeling......OWS!
Funny,DPB is called "Wu Mao"in our China,who work for the government,and once he send one message in forum,he will get 0.5yuan.
What? Speak English douche bag.
Name calling. Not even trying to pursue your argument.
我说，你是五毛党！
we really could use a get a job subforum
You're just an angry person and don't stand for anything!
DPB...you really need to get back on your meds.
LOL, agree.
An angry mod? Did one of your posts get deleted?
We are a republic.
I am a person. I am an American who follows the rules. I am tired of said rule makers abusing me and my ability to have value in a home we should have equity on - with no borrowing against it - and I cannot sell it or refinance it because of WALL STREET in the FALL of 2008 still not doing as they were told to do when they borrowed MY money but did not address MY NEEDS, and in fact have gotten worse with customer service, options and treatment of us when we have a perfect payment record!
Please, let's not compare OWS with our American founding fathers. We had structure and a declaration and leaders and an understanding of freedom, that specifically lifted up personal liberty, responsibility, accountably. You arent defending what is yours. You are demanding others take care of you. You all want to take from others, without working for it.
The founding fathers AT THEIR TIME OF BEING - were looked upon as miscreants, rebels, criminals and out to destroy Mother England's financial structure. TODAY, we praise them as we should. In their time, they were on the run, broke, hiding, (some were slave holders) and HUMAN. The OWS is taking the rights and freedoms of being AMERICAN to heart. Why? Because they are allowed to do so.
Have you read NOTHING of what I have posted? Or are you just skimming to wrongly interpret so you can flame post? WE WORK, we pay taxes ... read my other posts or leave the conversation free of blanket statements you echo from someone else's closed mindset.
Fact check and spell check before hitting send. America IS a Democracy. Would you rather see a republic army wade in and start shooting? These are mostly young people actually occupying. Sometimes change is not pretty, change makers are unkempt/unruly, but historically, they have helped to make the USA great. Our national history is built on changes brought by WE THE PEOPLE. These are messy, modern, "hippies" with the technology of the day. Look to the 1960's USA recent past for the last time many people took to the streets through-out the decade. This crop is doing the same thing. We have not seen this in decades. Ill-formed and disruptive issues aside - this is HISTORY being made. History is only tidy in hindsight. History cannot describe the smell of death. blood and bloated bodies of the US Civil War - seldom is the messier side and mistakes taught along with the main points of historical milestones in a classroom. You may not like these youngsters, but your great grandchildren will be taught about them in school.
Fact check..........the USA is NOT a democracy. Where did you get that? It is a Republic. And why do you associate a republic with an army that would randomly shoot its own people? Can you find the word democracy a single time in our Constitution? Our constitution is the foundation of all our laws. One would think that if we were a democracy that it would be mentioned there. The founding fathers were very clear that they wanted to AVOID being a democracy. Ben Franklin said it well......"Democracy is when a sheep and two wolves vote what to have for dinner."
You have a proclivity for sheep? You must be really cheesed at the GOP who keep using the word DEMOCRACY. Seen the movie IDIOCRACY? If no one cleans up the current state of the union, we are headed there. Again, you do not have to like history being made in front of you - but it IS being made.
Why change the subject. We were talking about you calling our country a democracy. I don't pretend to speak for the tea party. Why do you assume that I promote their rants for a democracy.
Being called on the facts can be a bitch, huh.
You make a point, KF - use of Republic vs. Democracy was your initial salvo. I did not assume you a TP fan. I am ONE PERSON you are speaking with. If you point out an error, I look it up - and I have the ABILITY to own what I say, and credit you. So, changing subjects after crediting you - WE are not doing well as a country. Occupy is simply using their American rights to demonstrate. I would not, in fact like a Republican Army (see Middle East) to wade in and start shooting protesters of Occupy or any gathering. You don't have to LIKE them at all, but these feckless, name calling cowards in this conversation thread will not do as you did. You asked to stay on point.
"Whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shown that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security."
BadAss....you should use quote marks when you quote someone else's work.
Ha. Point taken. My bad. Thanks.
[Deleted]
Proving ASSUME makes an ASS out of U, not ME. I am not a teacher or part of any state paid job. Private sector W-2 hard working family. I vote INDEPENDENT. I am not a liberal. No free lunch in this household. We have 401K's and stocks. We pay our bills in full, on time. MY STANCE IS that I am fine with OCCUPY since they are pointing out issues whether they succeed or not. Someone has to start. Do you own/pay a mortgage you could afford when you bought a home? WE DID. Our house has no equity due entirely to the MESS MADE ON WALL STREET. People lost their investments, jobs, homes. DC is full of infighting and is not doing the job under ANY administration. I am tired of being a rule follower when the banks making the rules do not follow their own parameters and CUSTOMER SERVICE statements of account holders.
Why can't you spell MOB correctly? Notice I do not denigrate your person as you so readily do in your verbal diarrhetic tirade as the only method you seem to be able to communicate within? Douchebag? Really?
Call Bill Clinton, Barney Frank, Chris Dodd, Harry Reid, and Nancy Pelosi. These are douche bags you should be angry with. Not Wall Street. You’re misguided because you can’t think for yourself. You’ve been indoctrinated as a victim of an ideology and class warfare.
You need to watch more news outlets than you presently appear to do. Try some streaming video from a wide sampling of view points. Watch C-SPAN for hours on end, without spin or filter if you have not done so. I am alive because I have always thought for myself. It is NOT class warfare for ME. I can only speak for MYSELF. I use my own thoughts and continual learning desire from ALL points of view and go with what makes COMMON SENSE. How about You, DPB? STOP making wide generalizations to reply to ME personally. It is rude and you cannot defend rudeness as really TALKING to someone who has differing opinions than yours.
That's your solution? C-SPAN? Nice how you just ignored my facts. Like I said, call Bill Clinton, Barney Frank, Chris Dodd, Harry Reid, and Nancy Pelosi. They created the instability in the economy. Big government and Barack Hussein Obama are to blame. You can't admit it because you lack motivation to be successful. I work two jobs so I don't have time, like you, to sit on the sofa and watch C-SPAN for hours.
What planet do you live on, DPB? Clinton left office with a budget SURPLUS. His administration's biggest poop as living legacy was allowing banks to deregulate more than the Reagan administration did. 1996 was the END of being able to take your credit card interest off your income taxes as a deduction. At the same time, financial institutions offered credit to EVERYONE who did not deserve it. And, created the Predatory Lending explosion exposed at the start of THIS decade. I blame Bill for that. I don't give a POOP about what stripe of flavor the politician IS, they are ALL wrong MUCH of the time. I don't sit watching C-Span, but figured you may get some news without spin as to the process of gov't. You want to fight, not talk. You want to be right, not open to discussion of calm manner.
PS: Who says I am not successful? I just don't bitch about paying our part, or earning a refund when we don't have to pay in. We are not even at the $150K annual mark, but so what? We file honestly. We work hard, we are blessed with work and health insurance. It does not make it EASY when those in charge do what they want and tell me to do something else that they would not put up with.
I'm totally calm. I'm just trying to figure out what goes through a liberals head. You say you're an independent but I don't buy it. You're a liberal and afraid to admit it. Call your representative and bitch to him/her. Why support an angry mob with no message? My intuition is that you voted for Obama because you bought his bull shit and think redistribution of wealth is good for this country. Oh, and spare me the dissertation about my tone please. We're in a public forum, don't take it personal or are you just too emotional all the time and can't help it.
I am so all over my reps at all levels, DPB, why do you think I am not. I AM Independent. I am old enough to remember and vote when CONSERVATIVE meant FISCAL Conservative. Not the current GOP or DEM parties who can find their wallets with both of your hands ! MIDDLE GROUND COMMON SENSE. If I have to keep my accounts and credit within the means of which I have to live - so to should the leaders I HIRED WITH MY VOTE! It is not emotional, it is actually fun. Fact is, I have to get on with the day. I used my time as I had it to spare today, and now, time for WORK.
First, this is not a political movement. It has nothing to do with being a Liberal or Conservative, Democrat or Republican, Muslim or Jew or Christian or Atheist. It has nothing to do with the Left or the Right. This is a Financial Revolution. This is a revolt of the 99% that are throwing off the yoke of financial oppression to free our Government from the corrupt control of the 1%. We are no longer willing to sit idly by and just voting in hopes that the elected officials will ignore the puppet strings and do what is right. We are taking our future into our own hands and standing up to fight for what we believe in, a Government for the People by the People.
We live in a Feudalistic Capitalist society governed not by the elected officials but by the person who donates the most money to their cause. The top 1% controls the money and thus controls the laws, fixing them to better themselves rather than better the 99%. So we, the serfs, are rising up against our oppressors. We will fight for ourselves. We will not ignore the 1% mocking us while they sip champagne and wonder "Why do they starve when they can eat cake." Like the American and French Revolutions we will rise against the Monarchy and attain our freedom.
In a modern American society it is virtually impossible to violently fight a rebellion against the 1%. The military industrial complex has insured that the general populace can not compete in an arms race. The 2nd amendment was intended to keep the Government honest with the ability of the populace to rise up if it ever overstepped it's bounds. The forefathers did not envision a future of smart bombs, drone airplanes, and tomahawk missiles. So what weapons can we fight with to effect this Financial Revolution? What peaceful, civil, and responsible solutions is there? We have, our money.
We will cripple the banks by refusing to acknowledge their credit system. We will en mass refuse to pay our mortgages, car loans, student loans, credit cards, unpaid medical bills, insurance, etc. We will couple this with pulling our money out of their Banks. Unified, we will force the banks to relinquish their control on the Government so that the Government can do what they need to do to correct the system. Meanwhile, we will still go to work, buy groceries, pay our utilities, and live normal lives.
The 1% have to be accountable for their actions. They have to relinquish control. They can not live in their ivory towers and ignore us anymore. The 99% are here to fight for our country. We are American and we believe that the American Dream is still alive. We just have to work hard to wrest it from the iron grip of our oppressors.
First of all, you need to stop lying about the 99%. I am not in the 1% that you reference, and I am greatly offended that you pretend to speak for me. You don't. So, stop attempting to speak for me. Count the people in your dirty little encampment and speak for them, not me.
Go ahead and intentionally defaulting on your debts. Boy, that will teach them now won't it.
KnowledgableFellow - YOU joined MY conversation. We will not default on our home debts or monies we are responsible to pay in the same manner financial institutions did. I don't speak for you. Stay home, clean and detached. Keep complaining about everything without trying to do something that you believe in. If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem. If you don't VOTE in each election no matter how small, YOU have NO RIGHT to pick on those of us who DO.
Why would you assume that I don't vote? Why would you assume that I "stay home"? I actively work towards common sense solutions to problems. Wait, you said you "..will not default on our home debts or monies we are responsible to pay....". Yet, I had responded to your saying "We will en mass refuse to pay our mortgages, car loans, student loans, credit cards, unpaid medical bills, insurance, etc.". So, which is it? You said you won't pay those, but now you say you will.
For one, I am not in NY. You see this is now more than just a few thousand disgruntled people protesting. This is the beginnings of a revolution. This is the beginning of real change.
yeah, right. Check back with me in six months.
I say we should check back. Obviously Occupy cannot stay camped for much longer on the grounds. But, GeoffH and I are not on the ground. And we DO represent large part of the American populace upset with Gov't and Financial SOP. So, yes, the times are changing. America shakes it's own tree on a 30 year cycle. Look back. See you in 6 mo.
You don't represent a group of people just because you say you do. So, stick claiming the numbers of people that you actually represent. It's closer to .99% than 99%.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXTHmE37X_Q be the architect of your own life.
I do enjoy Rise Against. Their message resonates with me a lot.
YOU ARE NOT "THE 99%." You are a fringe group just as small as the 1% that you are bitching about. 91.9% of people in this Country HAVE A JOB. Your comparison to the American or French revolutions is nonsense. You don't have anywhere near the level of support that makes you important. Do you not realize that most people are watching your protests on TV as entertainment? You confuse that with taking you seriously.
most people i know dont like the current political system and corporations. Just because they arent part of the group participating in the movement directly doesnt mean they dont support it. The American revolution was a minority movement with a tiny tiny group of people actually directly part of the movement- mostly in one city- boston. This movement is like in 15.
Random, the Revolution was more than Boston. It was the entire "colony" sending people from geographies in and outside the colony. But, you are on point aside from that - so, your point was that Occupy is building and creating larger than their original concepts or intent. You are right, MOST people don't like the current State of The Union. Rich, poor, political stripe - all have the same notion that changes are needed on a fast track. Occupy points out in it's youthful vigor, that THEY want their voice heard too. And, by those of us who are sat at home, we agree with parts of Occupy that no one is happy with SOP as it currently is.
Let me guess - most of them don't have jobs. You have to watch out for "group think." It is contagious.
Jalan - at the time of ANY revolution, the real time review is that of disdain and rabble. Occupy is a serious "Financial Revolution" or statement. Those on the ground, via accounting measures (and even TV rating measures) are, in fact huge % representation of the populace. Those of us who cannot BE in the various cities of Occupy - are also being counted as with their sentiments. I feel like they are messy and disorganized, but their main point speaks for itself. MAD AS HELL AND NOT TAKING IT ANY MORE. As American's this is our/their right. We've had over a decade of wrongs and abuse in gov't and since BANKING DEREGULATION in 1996, we have had no benefit from allowing the bad behaviors to crash our home values, our ability to sell or buy homes (WITH PERFECT CREDIT SCORES!), or refinance without cash ... the financial institutions are incapable of self guidance. As a consumer, I am fed up. Our house has not owned credit cards since 2000. We saw the imbalance. We LIVE WITHIN OUR MEANS. We have a solid mortgage product under Fannie. Did you even KNOW that your lender does NOT OWN YOUR HOME LOAN if you are a Freddie or Fannie? Your lender only SERVICES those loans. Yet, they can hold you hostage, abuse technology to throw you into foreclosure, they can put you into MODIFICATION process when they somehow ping your credit report if you dared look for mortgage rates and lenders on line. If for NO OTHER reason - Our Home - is my reason for supporting this movement. And, Geoff, I gotta call it a movement because it is being shaped into it. You are right, the AMERICAN DREAM LIVES. No matter political or any other 'label' people identify with. You are AMERICANS doing what is allowed by the very foundations we exist.
What you say is only true in hindsight - after the fact, from a historical perspective. You aren't a huge % of the population. You are a fringe no bigger than the 1% that you bitch about.
I think you are missing the point. The 1% is the 1% of the American populace that controls the Government. We are fighting to wrest that control back. We represent the 99% of Americans that are powerless against the Government corruption.
I understand the point completely. I understand that you CLAIM to represent 99% of Americans but the problem with that argument is that 99% of those 99% DON'T WANT YOUR REPRESENTATION AND DON'T AGREE WITH YOU. And luckily, people decide for themselves what voices represent them.
Do they? Really? I assume you mean the elected officials who tell you that they represent your ideals. However, they are backed by the 1%. They are not going to go against the special interests the helped them get into power. I feel sorry for you that you are so blind that this Revolution is to aid you and you are too busy defending the very people that want to keep you oppressed. Remove the blinders! Open your eyes. You are being used.
WE HIRED ELECTED OFFICIALS TO WORK FOR WE THE PEOPLE. They are not. Does not matter your party or platforms. NO ONE IN DC can bust through their own arguing to get the work they are HIRED TO DO, and PAID FOR LAVISHLY to do. Fire em. Malfeasance across the spectrum of people running local, state and federal gov't into the ground. If Occupy only ends up pointing that out - fine by me. They can speak for me, and if asked, I'll fill in my own gaps as I have continually through THIS thread.
We hired them, the 1% paid them. They make far more from lobbyist than their menial salaries, that they don't need anyway since most are independently wealthy long before they took office.
That's part of the argument for change - nothing to do with Occupy, but yeah, the Feingold and Buffet movements are on that same tack for changes you and I are asking to be inspected and refreshed. They have the juice as the tippity top of the 1%. I can wait for that wave to roll in, Geoff.
I am also part of the 99% but I have no problem with the 1%. Why? Cause the current system works for me. I don't own a yacht, but I have a nice house and car, able to take the family on a vacation or two each year and will retire comfortably with a portfolio of stocks and bonds. As unfair as the system may be, a threat to the system is a threat to my security. There are plenty more of the 99% who feel the same way which is why your movement is going to be limited in its backers because of the radicalism of some of the ideas floated around.
Mooks, you earned yours and you pay your fair share. No problem. You do have to agree that leadership is broken - and as it happens to work for you in this moment - it is a hair split away from crumbling your hard efforts. I know HOW we hung on to our hard worked for assets during the last 4 years, but it does not mean it was easy under the continual abuse of those making the rules of engagement in Public or Private sector. Unless you think guys like Madoff or the CEO's of the lending institutions were operating with clean hands, you kinda DO have a stake in what Occupy may end up bringing about.
I do agree leadership is broken. That is something that needs to be changed in Congress, not Wall Street. The majority of corporations and CEOs play by the rules (albeit unethically), the rules are just all messed up. You can't really fault the ones who operate legally to maximize profits, that is the point of having a business. And while there are corporations that break laws, there also millions who abuse the system on the other end via welfare and entitlement fraud.
Our laws and tax codes (for the both the rich and the poor) need to be made simpler. I truly believe that the fraud on both ends of the income scale is a product of complex laws riddled with loopholes. Smart tax and welfare reform, as well as campaign finance reform, are ideas that lots of Americans can get behind. Some of the other ideas I see around here are way too radical to get any kind of support from the 50% or so of households who are comfortable in their current situations.
Yes, with you all the way. Occupy cannot form a unified statement of being because of the eloquent statement you just posted, Mooks. People are fed up, they want to be a part of cleaning up the gov't and cultures at issue. Since WE THE PEOPLE did not make the tangled mess, and we keep asking for them to fix it - sooner or later, a group like Occupy is going to say, we don't know what we want to do exactly, but we are fed up of the way you are doing it! Where/How do we start when it is SSDD? You are stating reasonable fixes and actions, yet, that means the wrong ones who are benefiting from NOT changing it - are running the show. Voting any party or attempts to make changes if an earnest attempt at public service was the aim of shiny new representatives. Post election realities set in and they cannot make change they envisioned without compromising their beliefs and becoming part of the problem. Occupy is far from ideal in any way, but the populace numbers speak more articulately. We all say FIX IT, but there it sits. What's to do? So, they Occupy for now. sigh
I posted this elsewhere on this forum and I'll repeat it here. I feel like Occupy can have its greatest effect by forcing candidates for 2012 (Congressional and Presidential) to clearly articulate and make public their stances on tax/welfare reform and campaign finance reform. Occupy can make these stances known to the masses allowing voters to vote as they see fit, and more importantly making it harder for those elected to flip-flop because their original stances will be widely known. This is something that this movement can both demand and accomplish.
And also, the protesters should, through group vote or whatever, come up with an official demand/purpose/mission. Without it, the media and others will come up with demands/purpose/mission for you. Every time someone stands up and makes a radical speech or post it is very easy for the media to portray that idea as the idea of the group. An official mission statement would prevent the media from portraying you all as a group that supports a $20 minimum wage, which is something that I myself believed until I actually visited the site and read other posts.
But it doesn't work for a lot of people, and not because they don't work hard. That's the issue with me. I should be able to afford to live on minimum wage, but that's not the case. If I'm working 30-40 or even hours a week I should be able to afford health care, a car, food, a roof over my head and the other things you need in life. I see people do this every day that cannot afford these basic things. Hell, I did it for the past two years and went without a car so I could save a little more to get back in school. I will probably be back in the same position in two years when I finish my degree.
I agree that we don't all need to be on the exact same income level, but putting in your time to work should allow you to live in this world, and it doesn't.
Thanks Velour. Keep working. Those in Uni or out of work have to remake the generational shift for the American Dream. Something about each of us who will make it in this life, and gain independency or even wealth - will see their own way to legally make a living and have what you need. Hard work currently does not guarantee upward mobility or even STAbility. My husband has aged more in the last 4 years working himself into an early grave. We do work as smart as we can here, but the current financial mess has us always fighting the tide. God forbid we give up and become a drain on the system. IF our kid makes it to Uni, he's going to have to debt himself up, work through school, get work in his field from school to grab on - and he's choosing a major that will be a part of the AMERICAN workforce present and future. If kids are attending Uni now for a fluffy degree in something, they better take stock and change majors to where the jobs are, and are going to be. A small business class is highly recommended as well. When my kid leaves us for adult life, he knows how to live within his means, and be hungry to do more than scrabble. Our kids are supposed to do better than the parents before them. ALSO THE AMERICAN DREAM. You are right, no one should have the same rights and live above the level of INPUT they contribute to their own betterment. We earn it.
there is already enough food to fed the population
we should be able to turn on efforts to the betterment of society
that includes the art and humanities
so why put in the time
See my comment to Velour, above Matt. There are no free rides or entitlements to those who do not pay forward, hard work (if able) or if not able to physically work, at least do good works for the programs you are able to live on.
Because it does get me somewhere. And because work is not all about money. Getting my degree is not all about money. My job for many months was working at a thrift store that donated it's net profit to local charities. Not earning enough didn't mean I didn't believe in what I was doing. I've gone back to school with a whole new attitude and I'm not just here to get greats. I'm here to learn and to take advantage of opportunities I haven't had, and they are not all monetary in nature.
Good on you, Velour. You will make it. I like that you said you are not there for the grants. Too many are. Too many take grants/loans and do not put it into their education or bills. Charity and non-profit makes you humane. Changing your degree to make a living will help you to continue to help others. You can do it! No one is earning 'enough' money, even fabulously wealthy - but just average peeps are sucking air backwards, which is your point. Working hard and long hours while the prices skyrocket on basic food and petrol is hard, but MOST OF US are doing so. I do not LIKE that big institutions got TARP, or are subsidized and making record profits while they pay NO TAX (GE and BAC are examples of wrong from banking and corporate models I am NOT happy with) while we lose everything we had to 'suck off the system' like these name flamers are tossing about in this one conversation thread.
I feel sorry for you then. Wake up! The 1% are keeping you oppressed and you don't even know it. Just because you are on tin the field being whipped does not mean that your place in the house is secure.
Without getting into specifics, I really am pretty secure. I'd say at least the top 30% is pretty secure, and the top 50% are pretty comfortable. We own stocks and bonds in our retirement and 401Ks so things that negatively impact corporations are going to negatively impact us.
I'll go over this one more time. The top 1% of the Populace controls 50.9% of the stocks. The next 9% control 39.3%. The next 40% (we will call them the middle class) own 9.2%. The bottom 50% control 0.5% of all stocks.
My suggestion is that you band with us to make a change. This is a Revolution. The 1% is controlling your life and you don't even know it. That is what they like. They like that you are defending a system that keeps them rich and suppresses your wealth. They let you have just enough to make you think that everything is fine. In Feudal terms they are letting you be a Landholder. They are betting on you being satisfied with the scraps off their table to maintain their power.
I am not defending the system, I am just saying it works very well for about half this country whether it is fair or not. Things that change the current system in a way that damages large corporations are going to affect everyone.
You point out that the middle class owns 9.2% of stocks which is obviously a very small percent. What you don't point out is that those 9.2% of stocks represent a sizable percentage of the middle class savings. So hit the big corporations with new taxes or whatever and say there is a 40% drop across the board in stocks. The rich see their savings go from $100 million to $60 million. The middle class see their 401Ks go from $500K to $300K.
It is a somewhat painful thing for me to realize, but when ExxonMobil has a good quarter, I have a good quarter. Same for GE, Cisco, etc... And it is that fact that is going to prevent this movement from gaining a large following unless ideas being thrown around become less radical.
Then you are in fact, a happy Serf. The rest of us have to fight against this oppression. I am sorry if your 401k drops slightly as collateral damage. I am busy trying to decide if I have 20 dollars to fill my tank to go to work next week, or if I can give my son the money for his home coming dance next weekend. Meanwhile I don't have money to fix my leaking roof, failing septic system, broken appliances, etc. We might have to go without lights for a few weeks to pay our 15% interest home loan on a house that we are upside down on by 300%.
I guess I am a happy Serf then. All I was pointing out was that in order to get the masses behind this movement, the protesters are gong to have to present ideas that will not hurt their financial security.
And it is not just 401Ks. If you make things tougher on corporations in this economy you can watch even more jobs go overseas. In 2006, the fortune 500 companies employed 24,746,142 people. That's a lot of people whose interests are aligned with the corporations, whether it is a fair relationship or not.
So because times could be tough, we should just roll over and let the corruption continue to infect our Government? What would the world be like if other Revolutions took that stance?
That's my point. As bad as things are, I don't think they are anywhere bad enough for a true revolution because for a lot of people it is much easier to turn a blind eye since they are comfortable, serf of not.
I think you fail to realize the gravity of the situation. We are headed for economic collapse. Let history be our guide. The last time that the income disparity between the 1% and the 99% was at the current levels was just before the Stock Market crash and the Great Depression. If we don't fight this Revolution now, we may not have a chance to later.
What exactly are you going to do for me?
Free you from the Bank controlled Government. Return the American Government to our People.
Wow. That is specific and actionable. I am not a captive of our government. I have no complaints about my life. Don't you get this? You don't speak for me.
Thank you for your input then. I am sure your Plantation Owner is happy with your work.
I am the plantation owner dumbass. I don't own a 1% plantation. But I own a plantation that I am satisfied with.
Just because you are in the house now does not mean your future can not change. I hope you never have to feel what it is like to be whipped in the field.
I have. My family went bankrupt when I was in College. I don't need a lecture from you.
I'll go over this one more time. The top 1% of the Populace controls 50.9% of the stocks. The next 9% control 39.3%. The next 40% (we will call them the middle class) own 9.2%. The bottom 50% control 0.5% of all stocks.
My suggestion is that you band with us to make a change. This is a Revolution. The 1% is controlling your life and you don't even know it. That is what they like. They like that you are defending a system that keeps them rich and suppresses your wealth. They let you have just enough to make you think that everything is fine. In Feudal terms they are letting you be a Landholder. They are betting on you being satisfied with the scraps off their table to maintain their power.
I was taught Wall Street was the place where someone with a successful business can sell shares of that business to the public to expand that business.
OK GeoffH. Whatever you say. Good luck with that argument.