Forum Post: You Win.
Posted 13 years ago on Nov. 2, 2011, 2:50 a.m. EST by SSJHilscher
(75)
from Madison, WI
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
To the 99% who go into the IRC, Livestream, or this forum, they are immediately met with hostility, repression, and ignorance. Anyone with different views is 'contributing to a negative atmosphere,' and will be banned and silenced. You can tell yourself that these are all trolls, but you're doing yourself and the movement a disservice. The 99% is a group of 297 million people, and we all have very different views. The reason that the occupation has been wimpy and small compared to other demonstrations of mass anger is that you have been exclusionary and hateful. You, personally. Because you didn't speak up. You didn't speak up because you agreed with those who were representing you; those hateful and ignorant fools with their incomprehensible strawmen; their hastiness to say no but refusal to contribute alternative ideas after shutting down the discussion; the bans; the selectively enforced rules which were made up as we went along; the censorship and word filtering to kick Ron Paul supporters out of the movement (I'm not one, by the way, in case your apish brain was working to use that as a justification to hate me, not that you people need one); and the lack of oversight and free speech protection -- it's all on you. Those who speak up are the ones representing the movement, and I highly doubt the opposing view is a 'silent majority.' What does not appear does not exist. You've done nothing, you've said nothing, because you don't exist. The only ones here are those that approve of these policies.
So fine. I've been here for weeks, and I gave it my best. You win. I'm just one person, and not important to the movement at large. PissedoffConstructionWorker, Metapolitik and MadAsHellInTexas, OWS doesn't deserve you, and is lucky to have you. People should be lining up to follow you guys, from what I've seen. I wish you the best.
Repressed Ron Paul Occupiers, I for my small part apologize on behalf of the apes who have marginalized you.
I have seen the bickering and the head shaking; the emotional appeals and the pandering language; the non-sequiturs and the zealotry. Most of all, I have seen total disorganization and disunity even among the tiny rose-glass wearing segment that is not banned and censored: these spamming sociopaths who want to be leaders, like TIOULAISE and Gawdoftruth; but who don't want to listen or have conversations with anyone else as an equal. I've seen everybody shouting at once and not at all working towards any kind of consensus or even small scale free association groups of like minded people working together. In this, I am convinced that this is not the beginning of a revolution or even change. I am convinced only of melt down, inefficacy and failure. And although I still hope for you to turn it around somehow: for one of you or some handful of you to start leading and stop following the orders of adbusters and the OWS news articles, I don't dare entertain the possibility of it coming to pass any more.
I'm out, lates potates. Read or die.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vceIV4Arpmg&playnext=1&list=PL270F9DF0C96AAF93
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIsHKrP-66s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWhLSORCwW0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYJTWa5v24I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UpFOh-FZcpc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Y3jE3B8HsE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mky11UJb9AY&feature=relmfu
Here fucking here
I agree... We do need to start beginning intellectual discourse... but I fear that that ability may dissipate if we don't appreciate the basic lessons of Our Founders.
The group of people now controlling OWS are not, AT ALL, friendly toward anything to do with the constitution or the founders. Many OWS campers and protesters are, but they are quickly being marginalized and silenced. heh, that sounds like the treatment RP gets from the MSM and the War Party. I can get that on the evening news. I don't need to come to OWS for more of it.
For fuck sake, the censor is still on with changing Ron P.aul to Ron Lawl. Juvenile idiots are still in control of this board.
Thank you for speaking up, Hilscher. I am a Ron Lawl supporter but I'm also a Kucinich fan (as is Ron Lawl - and vice versa). I've been a third party voter, anti war and anti Fed activist for nearly 30 years (before which time I was a paid staffer for Dem campaigns) and have voted for Nader and Paul. Like Nader, Kucinich and Paul, I know which critical issues we all are concerned with and how coalitions are built. I had hoped to see that kind of consciousness in OWS but it has been quickly diminishing, sadly.
It isn't just the people that you've mentioned, either. It's the self appointed paternalistic manipulators operating behind the scenes, as well. I'll give an example:
From: Andrew Pollack gmail.com>
Subject: Re: two golden oldies from MIA
Newsgroups: gmane.politics.marxism.marxmail
Date: 2011-10-29 02:16:40 GMT (4 days, 4 hours and 19 minutes ago)
Mark, I agree with you completely. In fact just last night I was reading the section in Grieder's book on the Fed where he contrasts the class base and resulting politics of 19th vs. 20th century populists (progressive and reactionary respectively). (See bottom of page 265 for his punchline on this.) That's why I spoke of both left and right wing populists today. The kids today at OWS who are proworker, antiracist, antisexist, anti-imperialist, but who think the solution is ending the Fed, or restoring Glass-Steagall, or breaking up the big banks, or moving our money to credit unions -- isn't left populist a fair term for them? And it's meant not in an elitist or dismissive way, but as a sign of their lack of exposure to basic socialist ideas -- for which we all, of course, share some responsibility.
http://news.gmane.org/gmane.politics.marxism.marxmail
It is elitist and dismissive and arrogant. OWS started out with tremendous energy directed against the Financial International and calling for the exact things that Pollack is not only so dismissive of but has worked, along with others, to sabotage. It's apparent that this self appointed elite have decided that OWS will serve as nothing more than a pool of warm of bodies for organized labor. I spent many years as member of teachers' unions and that is not why I became interested in OWS. Labor demands the protection of itself, no more, no less, and most of the 99% are not union members or even all that interested. IMHO, OWS has been effectively neutered as a force for exposing the real causes of why we are where we are, and actually rooting out these cancers that are killing us.
I don't know if you know this but the tea party thing started out about ending the Fed, the bailouts, and the wars. Look how fast that got hijacked. I've seen this movie and I know how it ends.
Oh, and before I forget, I meant to point you to this:
http://finance.nycga.net/2011/11/01/financial-release-102811/
"In this, I am convinced that this is not the beginning of a revolution or even change."
I think it is. It's just not its final incarnation. This anarchist ensemble will eventually exclude enough people who still give a damn that something better will coalesce. Whether it's still called "Occupy" at that point will be academic.
That's a fairly insightful prediction. This is kinda like a baby boom for potential fledgling parties.
So, to summarize. There are two problems.
(1) The marginalization of people with "different views". (2) The "total disorganization and disunity".
SSJ I will agree posting on this forum or participating in the protest groups as with any movement will have a group of dominant voices spewing their philosophical or ideological views in order to sustain their own hyper-inflated egos. It will be attacked by all of the crazies. This movement has spawned a mass of splinter groups. It has been eyed and exploited by the greedy. It has created a path for predators. Posting at times will seem like a dauntless task and leave one feeling frustrated by the inadequacy of meaningless conversations by those who are nothing more than cynics or narcissists. This is the dark truth. This movement is nothing more than an experiment by one who managed to take advantage of the angry voice of America and planted a sublime direction to its creation. There is also a light truth. The movement has also inspired some pretty amazing ideas in providing solutions to a country that for a lack of better words is suffering from a mass epidemic of post-traumatic stress disorder. It has become an outlet for those to voice their frustrations. It has brought people together in solidarity. It has changed the opinions of some of our leaders and has brought about some good benefits for specific centrist interests. My opinion to you is that you don’t let it get you down. Step back for a moment and glean what you have learned from your experience. Pick your topics wisely and stick with your beliefs. If you meet resistance on a thread then back out. Find your support elsewhere and if your support comes to a consensus then I would suggest you create something new with the group of likeminded interest that you worked so hard in acquiring. In the end it will not really matter. Those who have the power will always redirect the weakest factor through conditioning into a state of learned behavior.