Forum Post: You people don't want to work
Posted 13 years ago on Oct. 17, 2011, 3:25 a.m. EST by inearth
(96)
from Tulelake, CA
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
It is clear to me, you people really don't want to work... You just want to protest about how you have to work in life when the 1% don't really have to...
I feel insulted when you refer to yourselves as 99%.. I'm not rich, I work for a living, hell right now I'm working 7 days a week and 16 - 17 hours a day.. and I don't get paid hourly.. WTF you doing? You want a job?.. I could get you work, but you won't take it will you?.. You'll come up with some excuse of how working on anything other than the job of your dreams is beneath you..
Don't claim to be 99%.. you're actually the 1% that DOES NOT WANT TO WORK.
People stop wasting your time commenting back to the ones who write on this forum only to stir up arguments. If they don't get it, they don't get it. We know what and why we are protesting! Let the fools be blinded... But we, clearly know the truth!
so we're not trying to expand the base of support?
Ignore the trolls, and they will leave.
Ok, so why are you protesting? I'm a rational person. Explain it to me because that is the exact reason I sought this website out, but I have yet to find one common cause for why people are protesting. I've found several good ones by different individuals, but mostly rants about the "Koch Brothers" and "corporate greed".
Because its PERSONAL to me, I am one out of 3 children in my family who are $100,000 in debt, for bettering ourselves and can't/won't beable to find jobs, are working minimum wage, can't save money for a better future because we aren't making enough to pay 5 different loans, one of which is $700 a month! To top it off our banks charge a $34.00 insufficient fee fund in a a charge of $8.00, even if I pay the $8.00 within the business day! Now they want to start charging $5.00 to use your debt card? Why? They really don't have enough money to begin with??? I've said it and many kids my age REGRET going to college because we are now STUCK with limit options, stuck in debt we see nO end too, while our government makes money off of us! I am 22 years old and I regret better educating myself! That alone is a big enough issue in this country that's kids regret getting a better education...and this is just the top of why I believe in this protest. Want me to keep going? Because My parents worked their whole lives and have/are watching their 401k disappear because of Wall Street, they are watching their hard earned retirement money be sucked away...while the rich get richer. They also, see no sight in an end...they will be working their life away just to try and stay above a waterline that's quickly increasing.
Just a quick point of information, the reason banks have started charging $5 checking account fees is because of a recent piece of government legislation that was aimed at protecting consumers. The new regulations have essentially left most banks with no choice since they are already nearly unprofitable and in the new few months all major banks will follow suit :/ Google it for more concrete info, because in that case the government and its poor understanding of core economics and incentives driving business and consumer behavior have created this particular subpar situation.
Otherwise I totally feel for you man, it sucks and the system is seriously and irrevocably flawed :(
Also, I had the same experience with overdraft fees a few years ago. My ex-bf was a Lawyer and showed me a lawsuit pending class action status for that particular bank. Do a search for your bank.
@Abc3602:
I have empathy for you. The responses to your post are hiddious. When I got out of school (2004), there were plenty of jobs available. I bet most of the people responded rudely also had a better economy when they got out of school. It sounds like you had to pay for your own higher education, too. I believe you deserve better, I truly do. Don't regret going to college. I pray that it will pay off for you. I wish you the best~
Well if that's your reason, then that's your reason. I don't agree with it for a moment because it is mostly based off of one thing, YOUR CHOICES.
YOU chose to go to college. YOU took out the loans for your education. YOU chose the field you went into.
You complain that the banks already have too much money? Why were you not protesting a few years ago when the bank bailout bill came into play BEFORE the banks got all the money? Why not refuse to do business with the banks you do not like. If you do not like any banks, take your money out and put it under your mattress.
No one ever said a college education was a guarantee that you would make plenty of money, and if anyone did tell you that, then it was bad advice. I make 27k a year, am 50k in debt for my college degree, spend 60hrs a week at work, away from my family just to provide for them and get a little extra money. But I don't resent the person making 50k, 75k, 100k.
So basically you are angry because you went to college and can't find a job. - Do you have experience in the job? A college degree is a dime a dozen nowadays, you've gotta have work experience along with a degree(blame small, medium, large business for the job requirements thing. Blame society that believes everyone, regardless of ability deserves to go to college for the depreciation of a college degree's value thing.)
Talk to your bank about the insufficient funds charge. As long as you are not constantly over-drafting, most banks will waive the fee if you pay what you owe within the day. If your bank will not do this, then bank with someone else.
Government has always made money off of you and always will.....I'll side with you on this one. I agree and would like to see social programs like social security and Medicaide destroyed, or at least give me the ability to opt out. Never understood why the government forces me to be part of a program that I would voluntarily renounce getting benefits from. Also wonder why the US government has not been sued over the Social Security thing. Just found out the other day that if I were Amish, I could opt out of SS. Sounds like religious preference to me.
That's just the base, their is more to Why I protest. And if my Reasons aren't fit for you, than so be it but as an American citizens I can stand for whatever I chose to stand for. And I'm sorry but my choice to go to college ...? Really??? People with degrees can't even get jobs let alone people who Only graduated h.s! And just as most people didn't protest years ago I hoPed things would get better we gave enough chances to fix the inequality in this country and plain and simple we've had enough, for whatever reasons they what be. Agree with Me or not... But 99:1 speaks for itself! And I'm sorry but how is it even plausible idea for young adults to start their future off in debt?? That's asking for trouble. And higher education could simply be paid for through taxes just as we pay to go to elementary and high school!
Higher education paid for through taxes? And how do you justify that? How is that fair? What about the Citizens who to do want to go to college? Should they also have to pay for others to go to college? You know what, I actually agree with you under one condition. I say implement a national free college education system paid for by taxpayers. Add an additional educational tax on everyone; however, allow people the right to opt out of paying benefits into it or receiving benefits from it. That way, I will not be forced to pay out of MY check those things which YOU are responsible for. If you want to pay for someone else's education, then so be it, but I'll be damned if I'm going to pay for my child's education and yours.
As for your argument regarding elementary and high school, you may want to look a a worry that one of the founding fathers had.
“If Congress can employ money indefinitely to the general welfare, and are the sole and supreme judges of the general welfare, they may take the care of religion into their own hands; they may appoint teachers in every State, county and parish and pay them out of their public treasury; they may take into their own hands the education of children, establishing in like manner schools throughout the Union; they may assume the provision of the poor; they may undertake the regulation of all roads other than post-roads; in short, every thing, from the highest object of state legislation down to the most minute object of police, would be thrown under the power of Congress… Were the power of Congress to be established in the latitude contended for, it would subvert the very foundations, and transmute the very nature of the limited Government established by the people of America.”
– James Madison, Letter to Edmund Pendleton, January 21, 1792
The Federal government was never created to rule the everyday lives of the Citizens with limitless power. The Federal government has slowly eroded the power of the Constitution by misconstruing the meanings of words and phrases within the Constitution to give more power to the Federal government.
Free college education? Bullshit, the next thing you are going to want is a tax to support "free" national Internet access, "free" phone service, "free" ect, ect, ect.
You pay through your taxes already for public schools. They do that in Australia, I know people there and they were absolutely stunned and sick at the cost an education in this country is. It's not about god damn money! Until we wrap our heads around the idea that money DESTROYES things more than it helps, this would will never no fairness! I'm not diminishing the people who make a lot of money that's great! But they should pay their fair share of the cut, why is the middle class, who can't even make ends meat, paying higher taxes? How come the wealthy 1% can find loop holes to get out of paying taxes, or payin less taxes? How come our government officials sit on 6 digit salaries when they've done nothing in the past plus 8 yrs besides start and needless war, and fluctuating our economy? Where are the people being held ACCOUNTABLE for all the money wasted in the banks and wall street when they got bailed out? Where the hell is the accountability InThis country???? Because while people on wall street, bank executives and the rest of the one 1% get away with spending MY/OUR money in which ever way they please, without penalty...my future becomes less and less brighter.. With less and less options. We could argue this all day, but you can't change my mind on it! And if you want a strict and I'm answer of why I protest...here it is: www.youtube.com listen to revolution by Jbt...it gets the message across better than I could ever put it. Good day!
Oh I already know I pay for the public school system through my taxes, and I do not agree with it. Now take time to calm down and reiterate your paragraph into what you are really angry about.
From what I have read, I'm almost positive I agree with you, but I would need you to be a little more specific. Is it the rich you hate? It doesn't seem so from your post. Is it corruption? Of course who could agree with corruption. Or is it the federal government?
I don't hate the rich. I don't hate anyone...hating gets me no where in life. I'm sick of being treated as an unequal. I'm sick of money ruling the world. I'm sick of watching my parents, friends, and family struggle when there is enough knowledge, money, education, and people in this world where EVERY person can have medical care, an education, a steady stable job to live comfortably. I don't want to be apart of this greed anymore. There is no reason for it. I'm sick of governments being controlled by greed and money, instead of the people. Until we realize we are part of a community, and if all of us give a little for the common good of our race, and earth...learning to co- exist for the greater good... And that isn't money and power. The banks need to help accountable for allowing colleges to charge so much money for tuition, and loaning that type of money to students...regardless of the interest rate because it greats DEBT no matter what. I want people to be held accountable for wasting so much money, so much time, and so many people's lives for the greater good of themselves. I want people (wall st) to be held accountable for controlling/messing with the economy so much to the point where my Mother lost over $400,000 of her retirement and will get charger a fee if she even dares to take it out.
I read your first post wrong then. Sorry your ideals do not match with my own. Have fun with your protest.
So do you think people who don't have kids shouldn't have to pay the taxes that go toward public education for k-12?
No, honestly I don't. I also don't think that people who no longer have children in the public school system should have to continue paying into it. My grandmother is 90 years old, and she's been paying into the public education her entire adult life, even though her children have long been out of school.
Homeschoolers shouldn't have to pay for public education when their kid isn't going to a public school either. That's not how the education system was designed to work in the beginning. Your kid went to school , you pitched in to pay the teacher, the parents helped build the school and furnished it. Now everyone pays for all of it.
I agree with you 100%
Unless you are self-employed, what you REALLY need to get a job is to be willing to give an employer more than you are getting in return. That's the way a company makes a profit - maximize income and minimize expenses. Unfortunately, the profit motive has been co-opted by the greed motive and an attitude that whoever has the most toys and money wins. Any worker on the payroll of a company is an expense and when you no longer contribute to the bottom line, you're done.
Yeah, that's called business. The customers are the life blood of any business and when a business is not getting enough customers(money), the business has to get rid of expenses(workers).
"employer more than your are getting in return." I'm giving my employer my time and skills, my employer is giving me money. This is called work. This is life. What do you mean my employer is getting more than I am getting in return? I work for boss, boss gives me money. If I don't like the amount of money that boss is giving me, I can either venture out on my own or go work for another boss. What is so hard to understand about that?
What led you to erroneously conclude that I didn't understand something about my own post or yours, particularly when all you did was restate my post in your own words? Or is that last sentence your attempt at condescension? Let's get beyond it, OK? However you value yourself and your work inputs is your business and as long as you're happy with your return on those work inputs, so much the better. What people are saying in here is that they are not happy with the value they are receiving from the work in comparison to others in the work place, particularly executives whose take home pay far exceeds theirs. It's a personal choice to be happy with what you receive in return for what you put in so don't expect others to be just like you.
Sooooo take it out on the rich people because you are unhappy that others in the work place are making more money than you?
No - people are unhappy because the top 1% are STEALING our productivity, and lining their pockets with it. And they are pulling it off because the ultra-wealthy control our government. It didn't used to be this way - for the last 30 years we have been standing still, while the top 1% have seen their wealth explode, but prior to 1980, we had a system where EVERYONE saw growth.
You say you are content busting your ass to scratch out a living. We say if you are going to work that hard, you should actually GET AHEAD.
These charts might help demonstrate the problem: http://imgur.com/a/U4FR4#0
I had a much longer, more detailed, and more passionate post written, but I lost it. :( TL;DR - we believe you deserve better, even if you don't. 40 years ago, you would've been getting a better deal.
You say you are content busting your ass to scratch out a living. We say if you are going to work that hard, you should actually GET AHEAD
I have got ahead. Though I am not making over $30 a year, in the past 10 years, I have increased my credit score to 750 by always paying my debt. I have got to the point where it is now cheaper for me to pay a mortgage than pay for rent, so within the month I will be buying my very first house at the age of 28. I finally completed college and though I have a $50k student loan debt and I'm working a low level job in my degree field, I know that so long as the country does not collapse, in the next 5 to 10 years, I will have moved up my career path to the point that I am well off. If something happens to interrupt those plans, then I will deal with it.
As for corruption, I agree with you, but the problem is that the Federal Government is outside its Constitutional boundaries on so many levels, that it is ridiculous. The Constitution did not limit the federal government on a 3-point checks and balances system. It limited it on a 4-point system. Unfortunately, the 4th point is too dangerous to federal power, so it has largely been ignored. That forth point is the States themselves. Restore the States' Constitutional powers and you will see how quickly corruption can be contained.
The point is you shouldn't have to work 70 hours a week to put a roof over your head, and a LOT of Americans are doing just that. Prior to Reagan, a single income family was middle class. Not any more.
I find it sad that you think this is OK, when the very top earners make many many times more than they used to. We have the greatest income disparity in the industrialized world. This retards innovation, productivity, economic growth, and stability.
I'm ok with it because I can look past my current situation. I can see that if I had built a corporate empire like Walmart, then I, and I alone, am entitled to the after-expense profit that my empire generates.
As for the statement, you shouldn't have to work 70 hours a week to put a roof over your head. I have a home, a very nice tv, gaming systems, three computers, full-cable television, high-speed internet, uninterrupted electricity, hot water an automobile,....I could keep going on, if you wanted.
So yes, I should have to work 70 hours a week for all these things. Its not just about putting a roof over my head. My grandparents worked from sun up to sun down on the family farm. They grew their own food, raised their own livestock, butchered their own livestock, and built their own home. On top of this, my grandfather worked a full-time job at the VA. Most of the jobs nowadays are not labor intensive. They are cake jobs compared to farming the land. Anyway, my grandparents owned an old beat-up truck that my grandfather continuously worked on to keep running. They owned their house, land, an old tractor, and one tv that only picked up 4 channels. When my grandparents were young, they actually made their own clothes. On many occasions as a child I got out in the field and helped my grandmother pick and shell vegetables or helped my granddad corral cows. My grandparents only complaint was that the government took money from them to give to others who did not work as hard as my grandparents. SO NOW YOU TELL ME, WHY SHOULDN'T I WORK MY ASS OFF FOR WHAT I HAVE? You make me sick you entitled little bastard. You have more than your parents or grandparents had; yet, you still piss and moan about having to work hard for it. Do I care what the rich people have? NO. Do I care when the government takes money from me and gives it to anyone else rich or poor? YES. But what aggravates me more than anything is to hear someone complain that "You shouldn't have to work 70 hours....blah, blah, blah." If you don't like it, then grow your own crops, make your own clothes, kill your own food, throw away all the electronics and live a minimalistic life. Otherwise, shut the hell up about have to "work" hard.
Oh and if you don't have more than your parents or grandparents, then GET OFF YOUR ASS AND WORK FOR IT.
Who would you take it out on if your boss told you today that your salary would be cut in half in order to save expenses? Is he/she rich? Does it matter? Would you blame your boss, the company executives, the board of directors or customers for not buying your products? It really doesn't matter who gets the blame because that's a personal attempt at making someone/something accountable and usually a knee jerk reaction to a bad experience. You know we can't admit that there's really no one to blame because that would suggest we might be to blame. I think everyone shares blame, or maybe culpability is a better word, in bringing us collectively to where we are today.
If you cut through all the noise and read between the lines in this forum, many people are simply saying that they don't have an equitable relationship with their employer, if they have a relationship at all. You, however, are different. You are pleased with the work/reward arrangement you have. But, I would challenge you to honestly say it's just as easy today as it has been in the past to go find another job paying the same or more than you're making now if you got laid off, fired or had your pay reduced to the point you were no longer happy with the arrangement. The job market is not made up of only professionals who can hang their own shingle, start their own business and compete effectively in the marketplace. It is made up of people like you, me and everyone else who is driven to work for a living. And businesses are not in the 'business' of creating jobs just so people can make money or find fulfillment. An employee is an expense and businesses loathe expenses. And this goes back the point in my OP. Unless your value to the company is greater than your expense, chances are very slim you will get employed.
Ok, take your opening situation there. Your boss cut's your pay to save expenses. Got it, it happens, maybe the company is doing bad. Now how would you feel if your boss gave himself a raise and a bonus that same year?
Unfortunately, and as you obviously know, this is exactly what happened after the passage of the American Jobs Act in 2004 and more recently, after the 'recovery' from the great recession.
It's important to note that there is a coalition of some of America's largest corporations lobby congress for another tax holiday for repatriated earnings which would effectively make their tax rate on those earning about 8.75%. We know this doesn't create jobs or investment in America from the experience in 2004. Write your congressman/woman and tell him/her to defeat S 1671, the Foreign Earnings Reinvestment Act.
I would tell my boss that he was not going to cut my wages. If he/she did not listen, I would go to another company.(Speaking from experience because this happened to me.) Here's where the old saying, you do what you gotta do, and I'll do what I gotta do. No since in placing blame, because blame can be placed on everyone you just mentioned.
"I think everyone shares blame, or maybe culpability is a better word, in bringing us collectively to where we are today." - Damn good response there bwturner1951. I'll give you a thumbs up for that one.
"But, I would challenge you to honestly say it's just as easy today as it has been in the past to go find another job paying the same or more than you're making now if you got laid off, fired or had your pay reduced to the point you were no longer happy with the arrangement" - True. When I was a child I asked my grandmother about the Great Depression. I said, why didn't those people just work, and she said, "Because there was no work to be done. Hopefully, you will never have to go through that, but if you do, then you'll understand. The Great Depression was just apart of life. It was like asking, "If you are hungry, why not just eat. Then you look around and see that there is no food to eat. No one, yet everyone, to blame for it. It was just a part of life."
It's called personal responsibility! I voted for Obama last time and won't again. I'm against the Gov't for taking in the cash/advice/people of corporations/groups who have an agenda. I'm against GE being an influence and I'm against the unions for being an influence. I'm also against companies not doing the right things just because they're right and, yes, banks are a part of that.
However, I am unemployed and doing fine because "I" made good personal choices and realize that I owe what I buy/rent etc. It's me and no one else's fault. I didn't sign one of those crazy mortgages on a house I knew I couldn't afford. If we stop the greed in our Gov't, maybe we'll get real solutions.
We need to get Corporations out of our Government. It's GE, it's AIG, it's Chase Bank, and the list goes on. It's time for the people to take back the power. It's time for our voices to be heard. It's time for political figures to take their hands out of the pockets of Big Business lobbiest. Its time for the SEC and AICPA to take charge of accounting procedures and hold Coprorations accountable, rather than bailing them out with tax payer money.
As for Obama, its hard for him to get anything done when the senate and congress resist his every idea. I also find it hard to blame the guy who took over the wheel, after it was already rolling half way down the hill. He will probably get my vote again, as I have been following the GOP debates and cand's, but no one stands out for me.
I'm currently also unemployed and have been trying to start my careet for the last six months. I have never had to work so hard to find a work.
Nice post, good luck to you in the future.
However, he's never attempted to do what he promised and that's get the lobbyists out of Washington. If anything, he's worse. You cannot defend him doing anything to the lobby's. He's all in on that one and is raking in the campaign money now from them. Do you really think when he accepts all that money that he won't help them and the unions. He can say NO just like the rest of us.
If we stop the greed and irresponsibility with in ourselves, then we'll actually have the moral high-ground to point out the greed and irresponsibility of others. Kinda hard to scream about "corporate greed" when you live in the wealthiest country in the world. Texting what is happening during the protest on twitter using your $100+ blackberry/ipad/ect. If the protesters were truly against corporate greed, they would also agree that we should be redistributing our wealth to places like Africa. I mean hey, what right do Americans have to be so wealthy as a nation when there are other nations in the world far poorer than this one.
I look at this protest the same way I would look at a rich person(100k a year) who was mad because another rich person(150k a year) was making more money than him.
First off, what specifically do you see in this movement that indicates greed and irresponsibility among its constituents? How is owning a cellphone or using the Internet to communicate paramount to greed?
Secondly, when you consider only the aggregate wealth of the US as a nation you ignore precisely what we are fighting against: the vast discrepancy of wealth within its borders that has been persisted in large part by partnership between corporation and state, in other words by unchecked financial institutions and corruption of government.
Lastly, you're dismissing our grievances on two contradictory fronts.
On the one hand, you tell us that this inequality in just "life." For the sake of brevity, I won't elaborate too much on the meaninglessness and unproductiveness of this assertion, only that there is not ever a single life that can or should be lived and no one should feel obligated to accept the lot they have been prescribed. Fortunately, for all of us, the founders of this country did not feel the way that you do (nor do most men of courage and conviction).
On the other hand, you tell us that we're not calling for enough redistribution of wealth, that our concerns are not legitimate because they are too limited in scope. What exactly do you stand for? What are you defending?
If you truly believe that current economic state in this country is just or, at the least, of no consequence, then argue that point. If you truly believe that we're not doing enough for African nations, and you have an honest concern for them, come join us and we're work out the logistics of a global solidarity movement.
I'm not calling on your to demand any kind of redistribution of wealth. I don't agree with taking from one person and giving to another in any capacity. I take no sides on this one with either the banks, rich folks, poor folks, or the protesters. This means I don't agree with the government taking from me and giving it to the banks to bail them out, nor do I agree with the government taking from me and giving it to someone who racked up too much student loan debt. What I was pointing out was the hypocrisy of the protesters. How can your mantra be "corporate greed" when you yourself are greedy? My point was that I wonder how someone in Africa, who barely had enough to eat, would feel if they could see all the fat people with their luxury items(ipads, iphones, blackberries) in NYC protesting about how someone else was greedy. I'm pretty certain those African's would view all Americans as rich and greedy, which when compared with them, we are.
As for your last paragraph, NO. I have no desire to send money to anyone else, unless I personally want to. No government, group of people, or other person has the right to tell me that I WILL give my money over to someone else, whether that person is my next door neighbor, some girl in California, a failing bank, or some starving Ethiopian.
Greed: An excessive desire to acquire or possess more than what one needs or deserves, especially with respect to material wealth.
irresponsibility: the trait of lacking a sense of responsibility and not feeling accountable for your actions
Ok let me start out by saying that if you look at the above definitions, you will find that they apply to the banks that were bailed out; however, they also apply to an extremely large number of in America.
Greed: An excessive desire to acquire or possess more than what one needs or deserves, especially with respect to material wealth. - The banks, the government, and the people of this country created this mess together. The government got rid of banking safeguards, the banks began offering loans with adjustable mortgage rates, and the people, who knew they could not afford the houses flocked to the banks because they saw the opportunity to keep up with the Joneses. Those people could have continued to rent(live within their means), but their excessive desire to possess a home compelled them to take out loans that they knew they could not afford. - GREED.
irresponsibility: the trait of lacking a sense of responsibility and not feeling accountable for your actions
Not all, but a large number of these protesters are proclaiming that they have student debts, lost the home they could not afford to start with, and want taxpayers to foot the bill. ONCE AGAIN, NOT ALL PROTESTERS ARE WHINING FOR THESE THINGS.
So for a person to borrow money to pay for something they want(education, home, ect) and then blame the lender when things don't go their way is to refuse to accept responsibility for your own actions. Many of the protesters feel they should be a "free pass" on their debt just because their degree has not turned into a windfall of money, or their home went into foreclosure because they cannot pay their mortgage. So YES, people in general are greedy, and many people are also irresponsible.
Fortunately, for all of us, the founders of this country did not feel the way that you do (nor do most men of courage and conviction). How did they feel? Please tell me since you personally knew them or at least backed your claim up with some quotes to support this claim.
I'll tell you how James Madison would feel about the USA today. He would be ashamed, embarrassed, and disgusted by it. The would let you know that the people should have the most power, the states should have the second most power, and the Federal government should have the least amount of power. He would tell you that the Constitution was not designed to allow the Federal government to give Citizen's welfare checks, section 8 housing, special breaks to Big Businesses, give tax-payer money to banks because they are "Too Big to Fail", or to use tax-payer money to fund education or health-care.
Here's my quote to backup my statement:
“If Congress can employ money indefinitely to the general welfare, and are the sole and supreme judges of the general welfare, they may take the care of religion into their own hands; they may appoint teachers in every State, county and parish and pay them out of their public treasury; they may take into their own hands the education of children, establishing in like manner schools throughout the Union; they may assume the provision of the poor; they may undertake the regulation of all roads other than post-roads; in short, every thing, from the highest object of state legislation down to the most minute object of police, would be thrown under the power of Congress… Were the power of Congress to be established in the latitude contended for, it would subvert the very foundations, and transmute the very nature of the limited Government established by the people of America.” – James Madison, Letter to Edmund Pendleton, January 21, 1792
On the other hand, you tell us that we're not calling for enough redistribution of wealth, that our concerns are not legitimate because they are too limited in scope. What exactly do you stand for? What are you defending?
Again, there's not much in your presumptuous generalization of these people that connotes greed. By the definition you've so condescendingly provided, there would have to be an element of excessiveness, of want beyond what is deserved or needed. Who the hell are you to tell people that they don't deserve to own a home? Are we prescribing classes now?
The housing crisis was the result of predation on the part of the financial institutions involved. When you blame the victims and criminals of this crisis (or of any criminal act for that matter) in equal parts, it is disingenuous and counterproductive.
Limited government is fine by me. I'm not sure why you feel I'm arguing against it. There are many small-government voices in this movement, many of which are fighting for exactly what you've stated is part of the problem. So, please, educate yourself through direct means (come listen to some people speak) and stop making wild and superficial presumptions about the composition of this movement.
Deserves or needs? Seems you missed the second part. Greed applies to either, not just one. And though people NEED shelter, they do not NEED to own their own home to have that shelter. And yes, I am prescribing classes. There is the class of people that live within their means to achieve that which they desire, then there are those who live outside their means because the feel a sense of entitlement.
The housing crisis was caused by many people. If you look at all factors you will find that the catalyst of the crisis INCLUDES those who also became it's victims.
As for your last statement, I am making my statements based on what I read from posters on this site. How that makes my comments "wild and superficial presumptions" is beyond me? I would say that I am directly interacting with members of this movement to determine why they are in it.....As a matter of fact, I think I'll just create a Topic on here titled "I PROTEST BECAUSE......." and let everyone fill in the blank. Not a bad idea Mutuall0. It would save me the trouble of having to search. Thanks for the thought.
Wanting to own a house still doesn't seem greedy to me. Anyhow, it's a gross equivocation to compare it with the kind of greed we saw in the criminals of the financial crisis. Those that acted to enrich themselves through predatory means while knowingly comprising the stability of our financial system embody the word 'greed'. Those that simply tried to purchase a home with money loaned from a bank, institutions we're taught to trust with our money and seek for financial counsel? Not so much. Not even close, really.
I like you're topic idea. I'd be curious to read it myself.
You're right. What we saw happen on a national level involving our government bailing out banks with taxpayer money, only to have those banks pay out big bonuses was beyond comprehensible. My problem with this movement is that up until recently, it seemed to be focused on "corporate greed". At least now, I'm finally hearing less and less about "corporate greed" and more about the problem being our government.
As for wanting to own a house not seeming to be greedy. You're right. In and of itself, there is nothing wrong with wanting to own a house; however, if you neglect all common sense in your quest to own a house, then that desire becomes greedy. That is what so many people seemed to have forgotten. If you can't own it, then wait, save and try again later. As I said before, this crisis was not caused only because of the banks and government. It also involved numerous citizens who took loans to purchase houses they knew they could not afford. This is called greed.
Point taken.
Why can't you find a job? Because you're not trying hard enough - that's why. Don't limit yourself and stop being an idiot.
How can you honestly tell me my lack of a job is from laziness? There AREN'T enough jobs in the country. Done, no need to argue with people who just cover their eyes to the truth .
Then why I am constantly getting emails and solicitations from recruiters? Why do I pass by store windows and see signs that say, "Help Wanted". I could go out today and come home with 3 new jobs if I needed to. I DON'T believe "there aren't enough jobs." Maybe there's not the EXACT job YOU want to do IMMEDIATELY where you live, but branch out a little bit.. There are plenty of opportunities to be had.
Of course, if the job requires you to move, but due to the real estate market crash you cannot sell your home, and the job pays too little to commute or maintain a second household... you're just lazy/"entitled"?
The social contract most of this generation has been operating under was NOT what we were told; it's not even the same one our parents lived under. We've been lied to - about the value of going to college, about home ownership. Why shouldn't people be upset? The wealthy changed the rules of the game, in the middle of the game.
Honestly, despite having an engineering degree, and my wife having an MBA, I'm not entirely sure I'll socialize my children (should I have any) to believe that college is the only path towards a future. While it worked out well for me (I have a nice job), it did not work out very well for my wife, and it hasn't worked out well for a huge portion of young people today.
Then you obvi don't take the job and keep looking - duh. Find something that works for you. Who lied to you? How has attending college in ANY way devalued your life? And how has home-ownership caused you hardship? You realize many people will only dream of home-ownership.
College hasn't been bad for me - but for some people, they gained little while accumulating a LOT of debt. All while being told that going to college will secure your future - give you a better job, with better pay. Home ownership - creates massive debt, removes mobility... in a world where capital is infinitely mobile. While banks tell us that buying a home is the "American Dream". Maybe it used to be, but it isn't anymore. Employers rarely look at employees as investments anymore, but as a disposable commodity.
Me? I'm not so bad off. I have a good job - for now - with a good salary. I do have a condo I cannot sell (even at a massive loss), and I can only rent for $400 less per month than the mortgage payment. So I got that going for me.
But there are a lot of people worse off than me. Including Wildcat682. I'd like to see all of those honest, hardworking people do better. The system is rigged right now so they can't.
Averaged out being college educated WILL give you a more rewarding job with better pay. You can have graduated from college and still be unmotivated and hopeless. College can't teach that.
And if you're going to present home ownership - now let's be fair and present both sides. While it does create massive debt, you do gain the advantage of building equity. If you're a responsible person, then the debt is manageable and the reward at the end of the loan will be you in an economically advantageous spot had you instead simply rented. And even if you do sell that condo at a massive loss - sure it sucks, but you're not totally alone. At least you can deduct the loss against your taxable income. So the taxpayers got your back (that's the kind of system we've set up).
How is "the system rigged right now so [people] cannot get jobs?"
First, you won't get a college degree if you are "unmotivated and hopeless". It takes work. Second, having a degree does make you more employable; unemployment rates are much higher for people with only a HS education. The PROBLEM is that wages are plummeting for those who CAN get jobs. People starting out today are, on average, in a much worse situation than I was when I graduated 12 years ago.
As a homeowner with 10 years of it under my belt, I feel that for a LOT of people, it's a bad idea.
I didn't say the system was rigged so they "cannot get jobs". I said it was rigged so they "can't [do better]." All of the power - politically and economically - has been concentrated into the hands of very, very few. A very few who have it in their economic interest to turn us all into wage slaves - which they have, so far, been very successful at.
Don't you think the world would be a better place if you could turn in a 40 hour work week, and provide a comfortable standard of living for your kids and stay-at-home-raising-said-kids spouse? 30 years ago, we had that.
Now, we have the wealthy sitting on more money than ever, with the lowest tax rates in the modern era, and the largest capital reserves ever, and we've got people saying - apparently with a straight face - that we need to cut taxes so they have enough money to create jobs (ignoring the fact that DEMAND creates jobs). We have people saying that increasing the deregulation will undo the damage 30 years of increasing deregulation inflicted. It's crazy.
Here's the sad reality - I'm not sure it's feasible for every person to work just 40 hours and provide a comfortable standard of living with a stay-at-home spouse. "We" didn't have that 30 years ago. The same amount of people who have that currently had that 30 years ago. There were just as much poor people then as there are now. You idea of a very cushy life for all just isn't real. Some people are going to do better, and some will do worse. But it's that potential of "better" that drives individuals to obtain, thus bettering.
Where is your data to support that average wages are plummeting?
You claim that "the wealthy are sitting on more money than ever" but what does that even mean?
And yes - to answer your question, I think the world would be "a better place" if we could bypass reality and achieve some type of utopian paradise. However, it's not practical to discuss such things. I'm a realist.
I have a job...
I know countless people who have tried getting numerous jobs for over a year an cant! Or they get a part time job that doesn't allow them to live comfortable or even at all. This isn't about anything more than creating an equal opportunity for EVERYONE!
You know countless people who are lazy and unimaginative, stubborn and unwilling. Sounds shitty.
Keep your eyes closed my friend. Only the people who can handle the truth, seek the truth, and realize the truth. Enjoy your bubble!
Enjoy your delusion and separation from reality.
well, one thing they are protesting are the huge bonuses bailed out banks gave their top preformers right after receiving TARP funds.
inconcievable...
I can agree with that argument. Completely unacceptable for Congress to pass a bill they didn't read that allowed those bonuses to be paid out.
Essentially because if you are not in the top 1% of income earners in this country, the system does not favor you. The idea is that yes we should all work to survive, but just because we do not earn 250,000 a year or higher doesn't mean we should have crappy healthcare, no education, and no job. you might claim there are jobs, but there really are not that much out there. The problem about wall street is that it is all about generating mass amounts of profits. Essentially if I am a company I will do anything it takes to show in books that i am making large profits. Whether it means cutting wages, benefits, or firing people to show more money can be returned to the investors. So all this is job destruction, because all the big investment firms, banks, and brokers base there risk on the"confidence" of industries to pay them back which really can only be done by looking at credit ratings and profits. Secondly were pissed off, because people like you can't realize that even some rich people say the system is unjust. Warren buffet 3rd richest man about came out and said it is sickening that he is paying less taxes then his own secretary. It makes no sense that we make less money then people that make millions of dollars but pay less in taxes. So this movement is all about fairness and our rights.
"crappy healthcare, no education, and no job" - These are not unalienable rights. These are privileges. What rights are you complaining about? As for fairness, well life is not fair.
Now on a point I can agree with you one. The government is broken. Has been for a long time. A lot longer than the past 30 years. Read the Constitution and you will see why it is broken. Get back to me on this on after you read through the Constitution. I'd like your take on it.
Well I do not have enough time to read the whole constitution at this point. From what I know government is broken because it is becoming more and more influenced by all sorts corporate and interest groups without politicians making decisions based on the legitimate concerns of the people. Yes life is not fair but we protest to make it fairer. I am not going to sit by and allow privileges are quite essential to be denied to me. Society is a we not an I, everyone has a role and a part to play.
You won't spend an hour of your time to read the Document that places restrictions on what the government can or cannot do? ARE YOU FUCKING SERIOUS!!?? Its not like the Constitution is that long. Oh yeah, I forgot. The Constitution has nothing to do with this movement.
Holy shit, I feel like this whole movement is insane, and now I know why. Many people in this movement are complaining about a broken system, but very few actually give a damn about understanding WHY it is broken.
I am protesting because there are deeply imbedded problems in our country. The financial crisis and the terrible economic climate it has produced was a catalyst. A wake up call. To find the underlying causes of the problems that we face. There is little to dispute that the middle class real wages and standard of living has been stagnant for decades. The wealthy continue on an upward slope. So we have to ask ourselves, how and why is this happening. The middle class is the backbone of our country and is what makes this country so great. I don't mean this to sound like class warfare, because it truly is not. It is just the facts.
Many many people here, myself included, believe that the problem is that 1% buys their representation in government, 99% are left with the scraps. This has been going on for a long time. Our government has been bought and paid for by the 1% wealthy enough to make BIG money campaign donations. BIG corporate money to influence outcomes in government in their favor. BIG special interest money to bend the government to their will. This is legalized corruption.
I protest because I want my fair and equal representation in my government. Wealth is not the problem in and of itself. The problem is that our system allows money to corrupt the political process and our very democracy.
First of all,that is the most logical, well written statement I have seen in a long time, and I agree with you.
Secondly, read the Constitution and see what powers the Federal Government was given. Research the words "general welfare" and take a close look at the Commerce Clause. In that document you will find that America is firstly, not a democracy and secondly, that the Federal government has long since overstepped its Constitutional boundaries. The government is illegitimate because it is in HUGE violation of the Constitution. The Constitution was written in a way that the common person can understand it; however, over the years the education of a "living Constitution" have perverted that document to mean that it is entirely subjective to interpretation. It can mean anything that the Supreme Court Justices want it to mean, or nothing at all; therefore, in our current society the Constitution is null and void. Benjamin Franklin himself voiced his concern that though the founders created this country to work in a certain way, it was up to each generation to ensure that the original meanings of the Constitution stayed intact. If the people wanted to alter the Constitution, then a process of amendments, not new interpretation of the Constitution, allowed that. Why? Because once again, a document that is subject only to interpretation can mean anything or nothing; thereby making the document invalid in a legal sense. You want to fix our country. Return our government to the way it was intended. Give the States their powers back.
Thats really interesting. I realize I should have said a Representative Democratic Republic. Is that right? Its just so long.
Maybe, returning more power to the states will be the result when 99% having an equal voice in the government again!
Our government is a Representative Republic, and to understand how the country was designed to work, it is extremely important to remember that we are not a democracy. The only democratic part of our government is the fact that the people of the States can vote for their elected representatives.
A democracy is a rule by the majority. A democracy will trample the freedoms of the minority. Now so long as you are in the majority, you have nothing to worry about, but if you are in the minority, you are in trouble. What if the majority decided to pass a law to kill all homosexuals? Kill all Christians? Kill all blacks? Extreme examples, but they make my point.
A Representative Republic actually says a few things. One it states that our Congress is supposed to represent us. Second, it shows that the power of our nation is contained within the republic. Ever truly wondered why our country is called the United States? UNION: A combination so formed, especially an alliance or confederation of people, parties, or political entities for mutual interest or benefit. In our case, a very strong alliance of States who signed an agreement with each other for the benefit of all of the individual States.
The Fed was never intended to have the amount of control that the Fed now has. The checks and balances system of judicial, legislative, and executive branches was not the only safeguard the founders put in place. There was a fourth one:The States.The states were considered completely sovereign before signing the Constitution; however, by signing the Constitution, the States gave up some, not all, of their sovereignty.
You are so smart with your Civics! You sound like a Political Science Professor. Your knowledge is impressive.
I'll try to remember all that you have taught me here. But I'll probably get some of it wrong.
Basically, I just know what I want. Which is to have my fair and equal representation in government. I think I'll just stick with that so I don't mess up the technicalities of our Representative Republic again, haha!
"Basically, I just know what I want. Which is to have my fair and equal representation in government."
You don't need any technicalities. You already have the understanding of what it is all about.
I'm protesting because 1 in 7 Americans are on food stamps, 22% of children live in poverty, unemployment is holding at 9.1%, wages have decreased by 7% in the last decade, home prices have dropped significantly, foreclosures are skyrocketing, property taxes are skyrocketing, it costs an average of $35,000/year to attend a private college, CEO's earn 343 times the average worker's pay, pensions are unfunded, corporations are sitting on loads of cash, banks are raising their fees, American students rank 25th in math and 21st in science, the World Health Organization ranks the American health system at 37, and on and on.
Sounds like you are protesting against unfairness in general. Do you support illegal immigration? Affirmative action? Fair taxation?
Yes, I would like an economy that is more fair. Illegal immigrants - if they're doing a job here, make them legal. Affirmative action, yes, I'm for it (42% of African American children are in poverty, the net worth of the average African American family is $5,000.) Fair taxation - yes, of course.
Then you are not for fairness. For someone to break the laws to come into our country and not be punished for it, is unfair. For someone to get a job or seat at a college just because of their skin color, is not fair. As for fair taxation, then I guess you agree with me that everyone should pay an equal percent of taxes. Only fair.
Humaneness is what is fair.
The people in NYC are HEROS bro.
All the OWS people need to take a lesson in economics. You all complain about working long hours for little pay, but it is better than no job at all. When government intervenes with price floors all it does is create shortages and more unemployment. Also the 5 dollar a month BOA fee that everyone was complaining about was only instated because of a irrational price control bill on banks. If the government never tried to step in then there would be no fee.
There are no shortages. There is abundance. And than there's those 1% people creating the artifical needs and mock up shortages to take way more than their fair share and let the others bleed dry.
Perhaps YOU need a lesson in economics. There is an alarming amount of data that lends support to this movement. The issue of price floors is but the "tip of the iceberg" when explaining economically what this movement is protesting. The people of this movement aren't anarchists looking for a handout. They are concerned citizens, excuse me, completely justified and rightly concerned citizens who are non-violently expressing their concern about a system susceptible to booms and busts that lead to bailout and stimulus money all provided by the taxpayer. I have a DEGREE in economics.
Amen.
Why can't banks make money on investing in mortgages and business? Instead they nickle and dime us and offer absurd amounts of credit to those who can't afford it. I have ING Bank. They don't charge atm or checking fees. Why are they capable of that but no other bank is?
Pretyy easy answer here buddy. Banks are having a hard time making money on Mortgages and businesses because only a fraction of Americans are actually paying their mortgage, and businesses fail by the dozen.
As far as I know, you cannot walk into an ING bank and transact business there. Buildings and bankers actually cost money...beleive it or not.
Credit unions don't have as many fees either. They have buildings and they invest in the community. They don't make money nickle and diming people to death.
Right on
Amen.
You're and idiot to be ignored
Seriously? How are they heroes? Every time someone suggests that OWS create a political movement, the response given is "Occupy Wall Street is not a political movement" WHAT?!? Then what is the point? Why are they down on Wall Street anyway? Don't get me wrong. I've followed OWS since before the beginning of the actual protest, but once again what is the point? To complain? Well speaking your grievances is fine; however, what is the point of complaining to the rich people? How about expressing your complaints to CONGRESS. It is CONGRESS that makes the laws, not BOA or CITIGROUP. And if Congress will not listen, then vote them out of office and replace them with Independents.
WIldcat, your true colors are showing. Your asking US to ask the do nothing Congress to do what many there have already refused over & over. And, while your painting US all with your broad brush, did you happen to think that many of us have never stopped to talking to our fearless leaders in Congress with no result. Some there have called irrelevant and a mob kind of like you. Because your condescending suggestion of asking CONGRESS has not worked we took it to the streets not because we are lazy but because we are fighting for change. But, I will try to make it simple for you since you don't get the message either it seems:.
The richer are getting and the poor are getting poorer, and there is no end in sight.
And, no, I didn't take you wrong. I read what you printed here. Everyone plainly sees where your coming from.
Well if you truly believe that the government doesn't listen to you and you believe that you've talked until you are blue in the face; yet they still don't listen, then arm yourselves and overthrow the government. Our ancestors did.
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security."
Funny thing though, is that this OWS movement is a light and transient cause. It has no power because the people protesting would not die for their cause. And buddy, a cause not worth dying for is not worth having.
Just know that if this "movement" were to become violent, I'll be one of the men armed to defend the country against OWS.
Non-violence has proven itself to be very effective. Also the government has all the guns and the tanks and the tear gas!
The government doesn't have all the guns. This is still America, and plenty of Americans have guns. Thanks NRA for fighting for our right to still bear arms.
In this situation, i think media attention is more effective than bullets. If weapons were involved, the national guard would be deployed, there would be many deaths, and the message wouldn't get through becasue the protesters would be chalked off as a bunch of violent crack pots. Expresssing there views non-violently on the other hand has garnered world-wide attention and support.
World-wide support? Screw the world. The world does not make our laws, so we don't need them injecting themselves into our political movements. We only need the support of the American people.
My point was that Occupy Wall Street has made headlines around the world.
Your comment is off-topic and irrelevant.
Sorry, thought it was on-topic.
“First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.” - Gandhi
That was quoted by a great man who was willing to sacrifice everything, including his own life, for his cause.
Don't disgrace and dishonor Gandhi unless you are willing to starve yourself to death in order to fight "corporate greed." Anything less is nothing more than a temper-tantrum.
I think you underestimate this movement. Time will tell, to be sure, but we don't have to pick up guns to win.
I think if this movement would get rid of all their "demands" and focus on a few demands related to the root cause of all of this mess we are in, this movement would gain supporters. So long as the protesters came to the same conclusion I came to about the root cause of our problems, It would definitely gain my support. Hint: Read the Constitution.
What demands? There are none. They are only pointing out economic disparity that is at an all-time high, and that our government no longer works for us.
Oh, I've seen lists and lists of demands that have been made.
Keyboard warriors of the world, unite!
LOL, that's just funny
CONGRESS doesn't write our laws. Congresspeople don't even read the bills that are passed.
Very well-paid legal professionals representing corporations like BOA and CITIGROUP are the ones writing our laws.
And lastly, you sound like a troll.
"Congresspeople don't even read the bills that are passed."
Can't say I disagree with that; however, your one-sided view that all of our laws are created by corporate legal professionals is ridiculous. Furthermore, you state, "CONGRESS doesn't write our laws. Congresspeople don't even read the bills that are passed." So once again. Exactly how are the protesters HEROES? If you truly believe that our laws are written by corporations and passed by Congress; yet, you support people who are protesting corporations instead of protesting Congress, then that tells me that you are more interested in taking the money from the corporations than you are of fixing a broken system.
Who's the one-sided one here?
You say you would protest but you can't due to personal obligations, but get mad when other people protest because you don't agree with 100% of what they're doing. Good luck finding any group of people that has identical views.
Your statements are inflammatory without any factual basis and are therefore not very useful or insightful.
When did I say I was mad at the protesters? About the only thing that pisses me off about any of these protesters is when I hear people pushing for the government to force me to pay for someone else's healthcare, student debt, housing, ect.
It's true, most of the prosteters are liberal. But their main complaint is the economic shenannigans that went on in 2008 and long before that. I think a lot of people can agree that golden parachutes financed by the tax payers is reprehensible. Why not focus on common ground? Not all of the founding fathers agreed at first, but they were able to look beyond their differences and band together to fight the British.
Why not focus on common ground? Not all of the founding fathers agreed at first, but they were able to look beyond their differences and band together to fight the British.
This is one statement I can 100% agree with. If OWS would through out all their special interest demands and start focusing on the COMMON ground that all Americans share, I would support them. Personally, I don't think the bank bailouts should have occurred in the first place, then I was furious a few weeks later when the bailed out banks started giving out bonuses. I was even more furious when I saw those idiotic politicians saying, "Wait, that was in the bill? I didn't know that. Oh, well I didn't exactly read it before voting on it." Those Congressmen should have been impeached for incompetence to perform the duties of their public office.
You're comment is just ridiculous. There's more legislation to regulate banking than any other industry by far.
I suppose the banks attorney's wrote all that.
Ask yourself this question: Why does it cost over $2k for minor ER visits and yet hospitals don't have to disclose thier prices/costs. And why are attorneys able to charge a homeowner (who supposedly cant make their mortgage payment) $2k to help them con the local governement into letting them stay in their houses for several years without making mortgage payments.
As for the troll comment, I find it odd that the people who cry loudest for the right to free speech and claim they are open-minded are the first to try to shut down speech that they do not agree with.
Wildcat, if you come back, you'll see your fine words still here. You have had your say and we replied. You freely said what was on your mind. Most understand your putting us down. Great, you exercised your right. If you have something to add that's constructive, wonderful. If you keep making up dirt to throw at us your just wasting your time. Anyone who's willing to go as far as sleep on the street to get their grievances heard has got a lot of respect from me and I'm sure your armchair criticism is no match for them.
I don't sleep on the streets to protest because I have a family that I have to support with money. Money that comes from working at a job. If I had the time to protest, I would. Not with OWS, but I would protest those things I believe in. Thinks like eliminating or greatly reducing social programs, kicking out illegal immigrants, creating a fair tax where everyone is taxed equally, forcing Congress to vote the people's wishes, ect., ect. ect.
My husband and I are part of the Occupy movement and we have jobs, kids, house payments, etc. Claiming that all the protesters are jobless is a trolling statement, meant to rile people up without any backing.
I see the protests on Wall Street and across the country as protesting the joint trouble caused by corporations and Congress. Protesting the corporations at places like Wall Street makes it obvious to politicians what the people are protesting about.
Arm ourselves and overthrow the government? Seriously? Another reason you're seen as trolling. You'd love to see those you don't support go to jail so you can keep your status quo, eh?
If corporate interests and the 1% richest population cohort aren't having a big influence on our laws, how did Citizen's United pass? How did we get tax breaks for the richest citizens during a time of desperately needed tax funds?
I suspect that many people see the Occupy movements as heroic because they are taking a stand for things that so many have felt strongly about for so long but didn't have the motivation/willpower to make the stand themselves. It wasn't yet time for them. Now that the people are standing, it makes sense that those who have been looking for leaders, for something like this to stand behind, would see it as heroic.
I never said all the protesters are jobless.
"Protesting the corporations at places like Wall Street makes it obvious to politicians what the people are protesting about." - Protesting in Washington, D.C. and clearly stating what you are protesting makes it obvious to politicians what you are protesting about.
"Arm ourselves and overthrow the government? Seriously? Another reason you're seen as trolling. You'd love to see those you don't support go to jail so you can keep your status quo, eh?"
No, I was making the point that if you truly feel that the government ignores everything that you say. If you truly feel that the government refuses to abide by the Citizens of the country. If you truly feel so strongly in your "cause", then you have the option to take up arms. I wouldn't suggest it, but it is an option.
If corporate interests and the 1% richest population cohort aren't having a big influence on our laws, how did Citizen's United pass? You'll have to ask the Supreme Court that one; otherwise, you are just trolling, meant to rile people up without any FACTUAL backing. How did we get tax breaks for the richest citizens during a time of desperately needed tax funds? You'll need to ask Congress; otherwise, you are just trolling, meant to rile people up without any FACTUAL backing.
Save the hero talk for people who have actually died serving this country and all her laws like my brother, who died in Afghanistan. Save the hero talk for those who actually put their lives at risk so that you can sleep safely at night. But to use the term hero to describe a group of whiners, who won't even put power behind their complaints? Every time you ask one what the point is, you get a different answer. Every time you ask them to use their power to evoke political change, you get "Oh, we're not a political movement."
What a bunch of impotent, babbling, driveling, imbeciles. And OWS is supposed to stand for the 99%? Hell, if that's true, then it is time for me to pack my bags and leave this country because if OWS truly are the 99%, it won't be long before this country implodes.
You're clearly THE troll Puzzlin... nothing more.. you've said nothing of importance in any of your posts on this thread...
Hey bro, troll away. :-)
Better yet. Heading to sleep. Gotta go to work tomorrow.
Yup he is either a troll or really fucking stupid
You need help bro.
You love talking to me. You're a liar and I don't believe anything you are typing.
Well I believe you when you say that you're lazy and want to work 40 hours a week and have all the perks and luxuries of those working 70 hour weeks...
Congress does not view us as their constituents. It views Wall Street as their constituents. That is the problem. OWS is pulling back the curtain.
The public response to Citizens United shows that most citizens are willing to see and capable of understanding the problem, if it is just made plain to them. That is what OWS is doing. That is why they are in EXACTLY the right place.
Congress does not view us as their constituents. It views Wall Street as their constituents. That is the problem. OWS is pulling back the curtain.
You want to fix this country? You can't do it on a Federal level. That is what got us into this mess to start with. Decades of laws that eroded the power of the Constitution.
We need to restore the rightful Powers of the States and acknowledge that this country is a Republic of States. Individual Sovereign States that signed a pact with each other long ago. States who have the power to nullify laws that Congress passes, which are Unconstitutional. Yep, I really doubt James Madison would agree that a Corporation is a Citizen or should have Citizen's Rights.
Have you read the list of demands in this forum? That's what this is about. Congress doesn't listen to citizens, it listens to corporations. We need systemic change, not business as usual. Waiting for an election to vote one useless congressman out for another useless congressman isn't going to work.
Oh, now on that point I agree entirely.
The point is to create a Crisis.
All the OWS people need to take a lesson in economics. You all complain about working long hours for little pay, but it is better than no job at all. When government intervenes with price floors all it does is create shortages and more unemployment. Also the 5 dollar a month BOA fee that everyone was complaining about was only instated because of a irrational price control bill on banks. If the government never tried to step in then there would be no fee.
They're "Heros" to those that can't spell heroes. I fully supported them until I found out, the second I offered them a job, they didn't want it... that's not what it is about.. I know things are messed up, but only protesting isn't going to get us anywhere... we need to help try to solve the issues one at a time... Let's all try to help come up with solutions...
TROLL ALERT----TROLL ALERT----TROLL ALERT
A definite TROLL. These types just write anything that comes to mind to hurt a good cause. For them, it's purely the ends justify the means. Just like the Corporate GREEED we fight. They'll stop at nothing if only they could put the right words together. The problem is they only can be constructed of lies which is a like a house of cards. This one is already collapsed. MOVE ON>
"Handout" is just a catch-phrase that you're regurgitating from the list of bullet points that were handed out to you before you started trolling the OWS boards.
This is a troll thread.
Shouldnt you be sleeping instead of ranting?
Isnt everyone working ?
I'm actually still working.. it is 1:33 AM where I am.. I'm going to be working another hour or so, and then get some sleep, before I have to wake up in 5 hours and do this all over again..
So you decided to take time to rant at us? How sweet!
These types of generalizations are meaningless and contribute nothing to the cause or debate. Speaking for myself, I've been working for 40+ years, I currently have a job and I'm invested in the stock market. I'm working WITHIN the system to CHANGE the system because it is broken.
Thank you.. that's doing something PRO-ACTIVE to fix the situation.. That's really all I've been saying..
The problem is the lack of equality. Now, people who have nothing to worry about don't care. Why? Because they are comfortable and they have money, with lame statements like "I worked for what i have, these people just don't want to work".
The lack of thought into the situation is clear. What about the people who worked hard for education, landed a good job, put in 20 years and got fired because the company failed. And because so many companies do so well over seas avoiding tax, less and less companies to work for are availble.
Now when the companies left have all there slots filled, this person who just like you, gave it all they had is selling there home and trying to atleast be able to find a job at a fast food resturaunt, which has good turn over for employment because you can't reall live on the pay.
Inearth, are you serious? Lets just stick with the facts:
Fact #1: There is 1 job for every 5 people looking for a job. What are those other 4 people supposed to do? Create something? With what money?
Fact #2 The top 1%, as a percentage, pay less taxes than you who works their asses off. The hardest working stiff pays a 35% tax. A rich, do-nothing guy, pays 15% on his earnings. How is this fair? Corporations pay even less. Last year it was revealed that GE, Boeing and Exxon-Mobile paid ZERO taxes.
To me, that's our Gov't fault. They need to fix the tax structure so "everyone" pays something. We have to realize that by half of us paying "0" income tax, that we're just a burden on the system. Even Warren Buffet, who sings a good song, owes $1.05 billion in back taxes that his accountants have reserved for. And he thinks he should pay more, bull, pay what you already owe and then maybe we will believe you.
I believe I should pay something as we all drive on the highways, etc. Wouldn't that really be fair, but for our politicians to allow companies to lobby them so that their taxes are so fair that they pay "0" is ludicrous.
idskinner - you and I agree, so you're arguing with a "straw man". Fact #2 - the rich pay less taxes than the hardest working person pays on their income from that work. As you say, "this is ludicrous".
The problem is, as almost everyone I've spoken to at OWS, is the rich are using their wealth to buy and thus rig a political system that works in their favor and against everyone else. That is NOT capitalism. It is crony capitalism, otherwise known as corruption. And one of the most basic core messaged coming out of the Occupy movement is exactly that - money out of politics. One person, one vote, not one dollar, one vote.
We agree, I should've labeled it crony capitalism.
I offered some of those "jobless" you speak of, a way to earn money .. They didn't want to hear it... they'd much rather protest than entertain the thought of working..
I am here trying to come up with solutions to the job situation.. why don't you get serious?
InEarth, I work hard for a living. I own my own company. I love free enterprise.
So I'm going to call you on this - what is your offer to earn money? I want to know.
Ok John, I'm glad you asked.. It is a service that I will hopefully get online in 2 weeks.. I'm coding this in my spare time, but it will effectively allow anyone with a car and a smartphone to use their car as a taxi..
Like the page.. https://www.facebook.com/pages/San-Francisco-Drivers/279959605349056
Oh and 100% of the money you earn driving.. you keep.. yeah, I get publicity for a "good deed done" but I don't make one cent off this.. I just am sick of the government or Obama doing nothing to help
Wow, that sounds cool. I love the internet and mobile devices, and its ability to make these types of business work. I look forward to your website - please post it here when you're ready.
Posting it here maybe a waste of time... I think I'm going to just try to launch in San francisco first.. besides, this can't be launched in a dangerous area. But please like the page if you want to stay updated on things.
I have a well-paying professional job. I believe strongly in free-market capitalism.
Nonetheless, I am the 99%. Wall Street's influence on politics is insane. A different set of rules apply to banks, large financial services, and their officers, than apply to the rest of us.
End the Fed. Stop crony capitalism. Both Wall Street and Washington should be starved of our consent until We the People are running things again.
inearth
I feel insulted .....I'm not rich, I work for a living, hell right now I'm working 7 days a week and 16 - 17 hours a day.. and I don't get paid hourly..
Man, you may feel insulted but christ, you oughta feel stupid. Give that shit up right now and come and join this movement. If nothing else it may help to save the few brain cells you have remaining.
What OWS is doing IS work, long overdue hard work.
Your opinion is welcomed here. This is the nature of these types of movements. The same type of messages were posted during the Arab Spring.
951 cities in 27 days speaks to what is really going on. You cannot find work for the 50 million people (US) or the 500 million people worldwide who cannot find work. We are facing dire straights.
There is nothing you can do or say to stop this. Join us.
Stop posting on the gdamn troll threads, fk!
Most of the trolls are actually the same person, or a very small group of people. Many are paid provocateurs. They appear to be quite fearful of what this movement represents. They do not understand the consensus process, the lack of a leader, the lack of a single goal. What they completely misunderstand is the nature of this movement. 951 cities in 27 days. This is bigger than any troll.
Clearly, they are seeking to damage this effort in the only way they know how.
When you have a truly representative and open process, trolls are the risk you take.
yeah you are right i don't want to work...so i can out source my job to another country then get mad later...somebody told me that is part of NWO of the one percent.
Is eating work? I think we should keep the focus on what people actually need: Fresh food, pure water, healthy relationships and a living environment.
Occupy your motherland! http://www.petitiononline.com/SoLMag/petition.html
Just worked 12 hours today. Fuck you.
I want a job !!! I live in Los Angeles!!! Hook me up!!!!
So you "work for a living, hell right now I'm working 7 days a week and 16 - 17 hours a day.. and I don't get paid hourly" but you object to people fed up with Wall Street's ripping off the country including you.
Sucker!
Ok, I do work those hours, but I work for myself, so I guess it is different... true... I'm ripping myself off..
If you work that much to improve your situation, I commend you; if you need to work that much to keep food on the table & a roof over your it, it saddens me & I wish better for you.
You are NOT ripping YOURSELF off, but you're playing the stooge for those who are ripping all of us off.
Cheers, GB
There are a lot more people out there than you realize, that don't have the option to work but I must concede that you are right, many people frequenting this form do seem to be looking for solutions but rather playing the blame game. It is time we all take personal responsibility for our government and for our daily lives.
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Saturday-Night-Politics/194650163906116
Actually, you are dead wrong. According to an editorial in today's Wall Street Journal:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204479504576637082965745362.html?mod=WSJ_Opinion_LEADTop
"The vast majority of demonstrators are actually employed, and the proportion of protesters unemployed (15%) is within single digits of the national unemployment rate (9.1%)."
Don't be so quick to stereotype: I honestly wouldn't mind working 70-80 hours a week if that's what it took to get ahead. In fact, I spent the second half of my high school career putting in 60-hour weeks physically in school, research, or extracurriculars and at least 20-25 more hours per week on homework and longer-term projects. I'm currently at MIT and putting in closer to 60-hour weeks thus far in my freshman year (pass/no record for the first term), and I would have no problem working 60-80 hours to get ahead.
I doubt many people would mind putting in extra hours to get ahead, or even putting in extra hours on OT or straight time if that's what they have to do. In fact, there are a number of people on here with two or more jobs doing just that. I think part of the backlash you're hearing about it being "un-American" to work more than 40 hours per week has to do with the manner in which such work (and/or the available job market) is proposed. Nobody should have to work 60-80 hours per week just to survive, nor should people with BSs and BAs be working at McDonalds or washing garbage bins for $8 an hour (true story, though not mine) and the problem is that whatever everyone agrees they're willing to do now too often becomes the new industry and national standards.
People would have no problem with getting entry-level jobs/working longer hours/etc. if it is in fact an attempt to get ahead or a truly temporary strategy to make ends meet. The problem is when it is postulated that 60-hour-per-week minimum wage jobs without chances of advancement such as a raise or a promotion should be the new American standard. And this is inevitably what will happen if too many people take such positions now.
what a slave driver
what this guy really means is that you people really dont want to work more for less./.which offends him because he is clearly a scumbag taking shots at you guys because he doesnt work
You are ignorant and are living in the bubble of your own life, inearth. There are NO jobs. Have you actually been out to see what the real world is like lately? Not everyone has had the resources to be in a position like you. I'm sure you're here because you have some stocks you are afraid of losing.
I'm ignorant?.. I've not been as lucky as you think I have been.. I've NEVER ever worked 40 hours a week... it has always been 90+.. And look I'm not against the protests... I'm against the people that feel it is their right not to have to work more than 40 hours a week... If I was an employer I damn sure wouldn't hire those people... would you?
People are trying to change the horrible way things are run in this country, they are not trying to get a free hand-out.
Then I fully support them... I just don't support the people that bitch to me that they should only have to work 40 hours a week... Yes, there's a lot of these kinds of ass clowns around that believe that they should be able to afford a house and a car and put their kids through college by working 40 hours a week, and I've heard that they think "this is the american dream"
It actually used to be the American dream in the 50's.
HAHA I love it! I think too many people consider themselves too good or too intellectual for blue collar jobs. The fact of the matter is-- people would rather be on unemployment collecting a wage than actually working a not so desireable job for one. There are jobs-- we see them posted on craigslist everyday... but most people have an idea of how much they're worth and don't think the job is worth it. I would have more respect for protestors if they actually looked like they are hireable. These individuals oftentimes look scroungy and unkempt. If I was an employer and I saw you holding up an "I'm unemployed" sign-- I'd say it figures because I wouldn't hire you because you look unkempt.
Right on, why else would they have so much time to hang around a park?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zj_9lTp-2k
Rage Against The Corporate Machine with this Parody!
http://occupywallst.org/forum/real-american-woman-donated-all-her-jewels-to-prot/
Posted Oct. 17, 2011, 4:22 p.m. EST (21 hours ago) by ataraxia (New York, NY)
I’m a hard working female under 30 and I earn 6 figures, so I’m not the 1% by any means. I got here by WORKING very hard. I understand what your message is and I do agree that people don’t deserve $24MM severance packages because they sucked at their jobs. But filthy vagrants dancing around like they just took a tab of acid with no shoes on holding signs that say “Fuck you, Pay me” really isn’t helping the OWS cause. Do you not see the hypocrisy in drinking Starbucks while complaining about Corporate America? Or holding signs that say “Donate Pizza” – if I even had the time to go through the entire process through which ingredients are made and obtained for a pizza you would see how stupid those things sound in the grand scheme of your mission. I was in Philly this weekend and almost peed myself seeing Shantytown USA set up with NORTH FACE TENTS. I’m no camping expert, but I know North Face isn’t a cheap company. This is just another example of a bunch of lazy morons that have this grand sense of entitlement. I personally don’t think anyone should be handed a thing in life. I don’t think you should be treated differently based on the color of your skin, what you do between the sheets or what religion you practice. People should be rewarded based on merit and hard work. So tired of the whining and complaining in this country. I’m a white female that grew up in the Bronx – where is my hand out? Where was my college scholarship? Wah wah wah. SHUT UP ALREADY AND MAN UP AND ROLL UP YOUR SLEEVES AND WORK.
If you want to be taken more seriously, you can’t have the face of your movement be people with body lice sporting clothes they found in their parent’s attic from Woodstock.
109 Comments
I love how people who work "17" hours a day claim no one has anything to protest about... so you think working 17 hours a day should be legal? you think we should be slaves? The ignorant typically have no idea what is going on anywhere let alone in their own lives.
Just a quick comment: I cannot understand anyone's thought that making a college education accessible can ever be negative. Having an educated society benefits everyone. It creates educated voters, for one. It increases awareness of the world, the environment, etc. Go overseas to countries where a college education is affordable- you'll see the difference.
Just a quick comment: I cannot understand anyone's thought that making a college education accessible can ever be negative. Having an educated society benefits everyone. It creates educated voters, for one. It increases awareness of the world, the environment, etc. Go overseas to countries where a college education is affordable- you'll see the difference.
The OWS movement is nothing more than a group of narcissistic individuals, who believe that society owes them something.
Amen.
The bigger picture, concerning The Resource Based Economy: Is it so hard to extrapolate the trends of today? Where will we be 500 years from now? How about 10,000 years? Will we be here at all? We the people, have plundered this planet so much in the last century alone. Ecosystems and wild life have suffered and are going extinct every year. Resources are being depleted faster than consumerism can consume and landfills are becoming landmarks. While there are laws which fight to protect these very systems, all laws are for sale in the open market regardless of regulations. As Jacque would say, we've been given this beautiful gift, and we're lousing it up! I find that to be an understatement. While many innovations and achievements have come from this economic model, it has served its purpose and is now doing more harm than good. If we choose to continue this path, needless to say, I do not foresee the human race nor any other species surviving the next thousand years. A term coined "The death of birth". Technology is the vehicle which has accelerated so much destruction through its application via economic policy. Now is the time to utilize our knowledge and technology to realize a new way of life, a new standard of living. Not for the privileged, but for We The People. I have fully studied the resource based economy amongst dated social practices and theories of the past. I am part of this human race and I support this direction. All arguments I've seen against it have been driven by lack of awareness and traditional assumptions, and while some may dispute valid technical points, there's nothing which cannot eventually be agreed upon and worked out when understanding the values and principles. Thank you for reading and remember to consider the gravity of the situation.
You can call it what you want... "resource-based economy" "capitalism" yadda yadda yadda. The fact of the matter is-- there will always be some form of currency trade. Women can trade sex for food. Potters will trade pots for other goods. But some goods or resources will always be worth more than others. And the person with the good that's worth the most will always win and be at the top of the pyramid.
7 days a week and 16-17 hrs. a day and you are not rich? If you are not rich, kick it back to 6 days a week and spend one day with your family.
Stop feeding this TROLL. This thread is infected.
What people are talking about will actually require much more work to provide for basic needs. That's okay with every occupier that I've talked to. See the lady's speech about half way through this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uc9jx6He7V8 - it's more about "who" we are working for and what the outcomes of our work should be.
If what u wrote were true, you'd be asleep after a 17 hour day and not posting absurd comments.
To me This is about thinking at a Global level, Restructuring our global school of though to something more logical, not just financial. It's about having a united human spirit based on survival, enlightenment and intellectual and economic growth.
And by economic, its not monetary means I am talking about, its about resources.
My question to you is... Are you Happy?
Do you enjoy working 7 days a week 16-17 hours a day know it was not for you to control you own destiny that day, or the following?
Do you wish you earned more than just respect or recognition, but knowing your work is not in vain?
Do you go to work thinking how it can or will benefit my community? if so, have you seen the evidence?
These are meant to be abstract. It's not about having a job, its about everyone with just as much capacity as you and I to be productive, instead of being marginalize and valued or devalued.
I just lost my job today. They told me our company went under. I worked with NO PAY for 1 month.
They say they will do what they can to pay me for my labor. But they don't know when.
I Started working at the age of 15, I;m 23. I've Had over 5 jobs now.
I am a student. I have no assets, on credit for up to 5 grand total. I have 150 dollars in my bank account.
I've never collected Unemployment, even though I've been unemployed 2 times for over a 3 month period.
I've lost everything, My apartment, My car and now I've resorted to selling small things I can let go. So I can pay my college tuition.
My tuition Has double over the past 2 years. I work to pay off school. I have no loans, But work 40-50 hours when employed so i can cover next semester.
You tell me.
Don't feed the trolls people!
we are working for the millions of poor who don't have a voice in this country by marching for them. What could be more noble???
For example, you like to stick things in your ass hole and you like your shit pushed up your bum.
Really? How come I know a bunch of 99ers that have jobs (one person has 3). Congrats you can make blind statements about people you don't know. Guess what so can everyone else.
Anything other than the job of my dreams is beneath me..
Blue pill or red pill?
Live for nothing or die for something?
Live free or die.
No pain, no gain. For now, this is how we work.
You're a sucker working that many hours.
A fool.
I am 50. I never thought I would be where I am today. I owned my own truck and trailer, paid for. GM went bankrupt.Fuel went to nearly $4 a gallon, meanwhile freight rates went down, because 20% of trucking is the "automotive industry". When freight gets scarce, everyone scrambles for freight and you lose a lot that was once available. I held on for as long as I could until I was so afraid, because I didn't have any credit left to fix my truck if I would have had a breakdown. I hauled loads where I barely broke even on fuel, but didn't have enough to pay my mortgage and other bills. I had dropped my health insurance a year before because it was $300 a month for catastrophic insurance, with high deductibles I couldn't have paid anyway. Want to work? Lazy? I worked 30 years at jobs that I really didn't enjoy, to make a descent respectable honest living. I done everything in my power to survive! I was an over-the road trucker for the last 18 of those 30 years, had to fudge the logbook many times to be within the legal 70 hours. GM was bailed out. I lost my house, Citibank was my mortgage company, they were bailed out. Today I saw a news article that said Citibank had high profits, not sure if a record or not. I don't have any excuses why I lost everything, I just did, and I have beat myself up for the last 2 years wondering how I screwed up, or if I did. I just recently started collecting food stamps, not because I wanted to, but to help my folks out of whom I am staying with currently. When the lady at the welfare office suggested I applied for disability, I cried my freakin eyes out. I had never been suicidal until that mess, I could never before have understood how anyone could ever arrive at that point, but I understand it now. The only reason perhaps I'm still here is because I asked the wrong questions at a gun store when trying to purchase a pistol, they called the police and it's a long story, but I've managed to move a little beyond that state. Honestly, life isn't so clear sometimes. I really feel happy for you that you have never been there, because I wouldn't wish it on anyone, not even my most mortal enemies, if there were such a thing. In a huge way, I wish I had never been here or have known what it was like and could just sit and judge, seriously!
Trollol
Well inearth,
You are one of the fortunate to have a job. I have been looking for work for over six months. I assure you that I am not lazy. But you are right on one thing, I won't settle for a job that doesn't even cover daycare, gas, and health insurance costs. I didn't spend a small fortune obtaining a degree to work a minimum wage job. Actually, I did work for minimum wage, for a greedy corporate retailer, and suffered through their "pay freeze" for two years, and was still layed off when they decided to close that location. Consider your self lucky to have a job, regardless of what hours your working, and I would suggest that you remove yourself from this site, as it is clear, you don't want to be associated with the 99%.
Yeah, i admit it, i don't want to work for nothing, because that's calling slavery (oh, no ! Not the whip !)
We need to boycott imported goods Buy Made in the USA!!!!!!!
Agreed.
Most liberals are lazy in nature and faithless. Anyone can see that. I feel for these kids parents who are still working to support this lazy group.
To hear the comments that you feel, though in your mind are valid I have to speak out against such judgment and generalisms. Its absurd to assume that they do not want to work, how do you know have you spoken to each and everyone of them to back up such a statement?
I work full time plus as well, and I am glad for my job but at the same time I have great respect for all OWS is doing.
Remember that movie pay it forward, how one young boy started a revolution in thought and kindness simply by paying it forward? This is like that only kindness is being sought and healing being sought through the end of big bail outs and corporate corruption and greed.
Though I always respect a person right to his or her beliefs what I cant respect is generalisms and judgment.
Walk a mile in a persons shoes before casting that first stone.
I for one fully support this and though it needs to be more direct, less demands and be more concrete in request its like a new born baby that realizes it has hands, the hands are amazing to this baby, found to be attached amazes the baby further, found to work helps forward the baby in life. That's OWS, just a baby getting to know its hands, but powerful and determined to gain strength.
A question, don't you think that if they were on the complete wrong track then people would ignore this and it wouldn't have grown. It has grown and caught the nations heart and international hearts because what they are saying and expressing and fighting for is in the hearts of many and until OWS came those who felt it or wanted to express had no uniform way of doing so, and now they do thanks to OWS.
Keep up the great work.
Did the nazi's ignore the holocaust?.. Just curious... mob goes where it feels it can attack a common target...
And yea, I'm doing my part to help as well.. I'm using my engineering spare time to help people make money for themselves.. more than what most can say.
You are the 99%, exactly what the movement is about.
inearth, There are 5 unemployed people for every opening. So not everyone who really really wants a job can get one. But what this is also about is the rapacious practices some are using, to rip of the rest of us. What has happened to your 401k, stock portfolio or savings? Did you loose at least a third of your life savings like everyone else? What is your health insurer really going to provide if you become ill - not much. And I hope you did not take out a mortgage or a student loan in the past 10 years. I hope your pension plan at work is still standing too. You can't count too much on Medicare - it does not pay for nursing homes or home health aides or many many services you will need when you are older.
Medical is shit... period.. this is a problem that needs to be fixed and it hasn't yet.. I never had a 401k so I didn't get to see big losses there.. but yes.. Obama is a scumbag... We need to stop the war and get positive money flowing into US again..
Working those hours will make you burn out in less than a month. Go see a doctor, before they've used up all there's left of you.
Put your money where your mouth is. I have 2 degrees ten years of experience and I cannot find a job. Hard to find work when 90% of the job market wont hire you because you are laid off.
If you think those jobs are out there.. come on show em to me and well work. Ill apply, modify my resume and I wont get it. I dress in a suit and tie and im told im over qualified.
So come there boss, put your money where your mouth is.
Are you open to taxi driving as work?.. working for yourself? I know you have two degrees.. but just saying in the meantime..
we had this conversation before. You wont go to Flint, MI
otherwise yes.
Remember me troll? It's funny no one is buying your story of working 457 hours a week. Must suck to fail. You're a clown.
I slept in the park when it was raining and cold and let me tell you it's no picnic that is why you mostly see the hard core element who can tough it out in the open.
Ditto!
I grew up in a home where my father worked to raise six kids and provide for all of us including he and mother. I saw vehicles repossesed... we were evicted a couple times... we ate Mac & Cheese most night cuz it was cheap... for meat, we added hot dogs!
I now make $103,000 per year. I spent 21 years working to get to the place I could go to school. I spent five years in school to finish a Master's... I spent another four years in clinical training... I worked for every penny I got! Why the hell should I share it with somebody doing unskilled labor who really doesn't want to go to school or try to better themselves? And, the truth be known, I could get fired tomorrow and have no job! I wouldn't protest the rich because they were successful in life... I'd find where the need is, reeducate myself and get another job! If that didn't work, I'd live off the land... yes, it can be done. Nobody should have to pay my way until I'm so broken that I can't take care of myself... and by that time, I'll either have enough money set back or family that can do that for me... NO FREE HANDOUTS HERE!
You want to do something about the economy? GET A JOB! KICK OUT THE ILLEGALS and make room for AMERICANS that do want to work!
Nobody is saying that you shouldn't be rewarded for your hard work and the time that you spent in school. You should and are...but do any of us deserve to have a high national debt because a bunch of millionaires realized that could make more millions, U.S. economy and real estate market be damned?! Who is subsidizing those profits? Everyone, but the millionaires and billionaires.
We need an economic and political system that is equitable. It's not just about penalizing the successful and hard-working.
You really need to open your eyes
This has nothing to do with laziness. You are missing the point entirely. The point is that the system is unfair. The people that destroyed our economy were rewarded and everybody else gets a ridiculous national debt and the coming inflation. Maybe you should take some time of work and contribute to democracy.
I think it is a two part problem.. one part is certainly the corruption and/or unfair practices by the government to fuck our economy up.. I think the protests are totally justified.. but the second part is working for a living... some people are using these protests as a way to not work...
That may be true, but I hope that in the end this will lead to some fundamental change. It's amazing how little new coverage there has been on a month-long movement that has become worldwide.
We want to work--meaningful work with a living wage, got that?
I hope I'll have this soon... in 2 weeks... It basically is a project I started working on ever since OWS started.. it is a way for you to operate a taxi (legal) with your own car... and yeah it is meaningful work, decent earnings (really depends on how many people you drive per hour)... and you keep all profits.. I'm doing this just to help... I'm slow in developing this because I have a regular job and in my spare time I'm doing this to help.
Like this page. https://www.facebook.com/pages/San-Francisco-Drivers/279959605349056
They have things now called collectives, where a group of people basically act as co-owners. They all have equal votes, on wages, hours, etc. There are several thousand co-ops, collectives already. They work.
Cool, that works too.. I was just presenting one solution.
but you wont give it to me becuz ur a liar like everyone else
ill take that job
This is your opinion.I should respect your opinion.But that means you should respect our opinion as well.My opinion: We are in this situation because of you people that don't revolt and sit at their home while everything is changing on the world.If you play the "coward" , we will never get a chance to change something
I'm not playing the coward.. I'm just saying that "IN ADDITION TO PROTESTING" you can take more proactive steps to making things better...
For instance for the past 2 months, ever since this OWS movement started, I started programming this new website that will allow anyone with a smart phone and a drivers license to drive people around for money.. like a taxi.. but legal. It is smart and it helps... The website isn't up yet, but you can like this page and when it comes online in 2 weeks, I'll be able to reach out to people
https://www.facebook.com/pages/San-Francisco-Drivers/279959605349056
No, they won't. I've seen multiple frustrated posters offering jobs, and I've been here since Oct 8 repeating that I have entry-level software development jobs available. No applicants so far.
My general suggestions to learn marketable job skills in high-growth industries like technology and health care have not been popular either.
What do you do? What's your job?
Sigh I'm not arguing that things need to be better... I'm just getting the impression (in my humble opinion) that we need to do more than just protesting in order to change our lives. We need to try to help each other find better means to earn money. Take charge and take control of our lives. I've been trying to help in my spare time trying to make that happen with projects like
https://www.facebook.com/pages/San-Francisco-Drivers/279959605349056
Please like the page. It is a solution I'm working on to at least put control back into the hands of people that can drive a car.
Learn about 'work', the monetary system, and alternative solutions
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ArkJmUOIqM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOO_AVwfZ9Q
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDhSgCsD_x8
Right on, im right there with you, Im not the 1% and definitely wouldnt begrudge anyone the right to make a billion, if socialism is the answer you can count me out.
7 days a week, 16-17 hours a day? Sounds like your exploited to me. It's people like you that enable the 1% to continue with their greedy and corrupt ways. Why don't you stand up for yourself?
rise and shine
I dont get it. You work at least 112 hours/week and your still poor? and You dont see anything wrong i that? You should have higher salary. I think we passed the 1880-era. where you worked 14 hrs/day and then had to beg to put food on the table.
This thread is TROLL infested.................Don't feed the TROLLS
I think you have a point. The protesters also have a point in that democracy and the quasi-capitalist economy in our country needs some modifications. One thing the protesters are seriously wrong about is that THE BANKS ARE NOT TO BLAME. See my explanation: http://philo-invest.blogspot.com/2011/10/credit-crisis-bankers-are-not-main-ones.html
Another troll and agent provocateur, please don't waste your time feeding the troll.
If you are working that much, you are being exploited. Rise up and sieze your workplace with your coworkers. Demand that more people be hired to assist the work. Demand that the wasteful profits be used to further the causes of the employees and not the investors.
Rise up and rebel. We will continue your struggle while you sleep, brother. Join us when you awake.
PS I have a job too and regularly work a similar schedule. Don't you look around you and see that this world is a completely artificial product of unintelligent design? A scam perpetuated by propaganda and coersion? Why would we want it to continue this way, brother? Rise up!
Human beings are not meant to live lives of consumerism; working for the benefit of already well off people until they can finally die and find their only relief.
If you are working that much, you are being exploited. Rise up and sieze your workplace with your coworkers. Demand that more people be hired to assist the work. Demand that the wasteful profits be used to further the causes of the employees and not the investors.
Rise up and rebel. We will continue your struggle while you sleep, brother. Join us when you awake.
PS I have a job too and regularly work a similar schedule. Don't you look around you and see that this world is a completely artificial product of unintelligent design? A scam perpetuated by propaganda and coersion? Why would we want it to continue this way, brother? Rise up!
Human beings are not meant to live lives of consumerism; working for the benefit of already well off people until they can finally die and find their only relief.
ITT: People who work 17 hours a day 7 days a week have time to visit online messaging boards, repeatedly, throughout the day.
Also ITT: Apparent wage slave who works nonstop to make his boss rich barks like a dog at the wrong people, namely those trying to restore dignity to the American work environment, while refusing to bark at his exploitative boss.
After reading this entire thread, my two cents, people who don't AGREE or UNDERSTAND what our fellow American's are trying to accomplish here should really not comment and stay out of the way. All you are doing is causing confusion and going off on tangents not necessary. If you don't see what's going on in the Economy Worldwide (aside from not knowing where the hell you have been) don't worry, everything will be just fine...I'm part of the 99% and I'm pushing forward with these guys.
It's worse than that Rusty. They don't want to understand and they are running on emotion rather than rational thinking. So, for starters, any argument is worthless with them since they are not here to debate. Their main point always is to force their opinion on us and when we don't take it, and accept it, they resort to name calling and belittling. You'll see the pattern.
I totally agree and please someone explain to me the real CONCRETE purpose of all this, what do you really want to achieve and how? HOW? How will you stop these corporations from oh "eating us alive"? Do you have any concrete ideas or demands? Please explain. THANKS
Maybe you should get involved and become part of the movement, instead of expecting some talk-show host to make it all understandable to you. Real democracy is about PARTICIPATION, so participate!
Dude you are so conditioned - your like Pavlovs Dogs - THIS COUNTRY WANTS YOU BROKE, after busting your ass for 40 years- I'm 48 - Im not Broke but fuk, my kids are in danger - I busted my ass and still am - This Damm CIty wnats us all broke, You oen Real estate ? Taxes SPIKE for no reason ? Water Charges , are you fukin kidding me, we pay for water and pay big $$$, wake up man, wake up
He is about as smart as a dog
At least that's 100 times smarter than you.
u are living in the last century mister, the system was made to be corrupt, so ingenius it blinded the whole world. Practice a little humanity and spiritualism. I am now being forced to be apart from my spouse because of work and of course money. You doing well now does not mean your children or next few generations will. Wake Up!
Thank you. I can't believe people agree with this thick headed fool.
She wasn't agreeing with you, she was talking about building a biodome, self sustaining habitat for the future... You got so overzealous that you just had to jump up with joy at the idea that someone sided with you..
inearth, the one who started this thread:
says "Hey idiot.."
and "lazy worthless moron"
This is TROLL behavior.................
Are you mentally ok?
Yes, and not only that, I don't resort to name calling or belittling as you are doing now.
Poor thing, u must be frightened, but i assure you, there are ways to learn, research on how to grow your own food , to build a sustainable home and it is the dream of many people out there. Who is lazy now?
What are you talking about? the points you make I'm not against... I think it is great to be able to grow your own food and build a sustainable home..
inearth, why did you start this thread???
Out of frustration. People don't seem to wanna help themselves.. They want to vent to have other people try and fix all their problems... That isn't realistic... Protest all you want.. I'm for the protests.. I just think "in addition" to the protests there has to be a willingness to work (to do any kind of work you're given)... You're not going to be given a CEO position if you haven't earned it.
I started a collection of creative excuses that I've seen around here.
Thank you. I hope we all get started more on this sustainable project when the resources are not selfishly squandered. Besides, i prefer to share food with my neighbours not "kill" someone to get it.
u are living in the last century mister, the system was made to be corrupt, so ingenius it blinded the whole world. Practice a little humanity and spiritualism. I am now being forced to be apart from my spouse because of work and of course money, not to mention my dad worked himself sick to provide a good life for his family and in turn relationships with his children sacrificed! You doing well now does not mean your children or next few generations will. Wake Up!
dude, you're working too much. enjoy life a little...
Two people
Actually, a good part of why I have been working hard is because I really want to help the cause I thought OWS was.. which was to help make sure no one was jobless... So I've been using my engineering skills to create something that can help people.. but it seems to be in vain..
ahh, well good that you believe in it, and it sounds like a worthy cause! well good luck with that, I know how hard it can be to be entrepreneurial.
Well yeah, I'm from San Fran... not too far from Berkeley... and yes, silicon valley wasn't built upon 40 hour work weeks.. that's for sure.. And in 2 weeks I'll be launching what I've been working on for the past 2 months, in SF.. so you'll get to see it.. if you want to support me..
This is the thing I'm working on.. please like. https://www.facebook.com/pages/San-Francisco-Drivers/279959605349056
And you will work for 40 years and still be broke. How crazy sad is that you have to work 7 days.
Obvious your in the Matrix - wake up
3 people
I don't question your logic.. I know my life's not that great.. I'm just tired of some of you guys saying 99%... Majority of the 99% aren't complaining.. we're ok with working hard to put food on the table.. We're all in the same boat... but 1% of you are complaining because there's the other 1% that doesn't have to work very hard... trust me.. I know how hard a few of them had to work when they started their companies...
inearth, also, you make absolutely no sense. But it is a good example of a useless rant.
You are working 112-119 hours a week and you aren't getting rich. Congratulations, you are most certainly not living the American Dream.
The statement is absurd. You're working longer hours than a 19th century field slave, and most likely, you aren't even getting company room and board, much less insurance, educational/advancement opportunities, or vacation days. You're probably losing at least another 8 to 15 hours weekly in commute, to boot. You should have the right to work that hard, yes, but it should not be a requirement for keeping the lights on, even if you're supporting a wife and two kids.
Either you're wasting money, or you're self-employed, or you're massively underpaid. If it's the first, I'd advise you to ease up on spending. If it's the second, you (apparently!) need to find more profitable employment. If it's the last, why aren't you angry at the people who are so abusing your loyalty? Maybe it isn't your direct managers or bosses -- maybe they're the best, most stand-up guys around -- but someone above you is getting the benefit of a lot of hours out of you and isn't giving much in return.
I'm getting to learn at my job.. I feel like I have a purpose.. I'm not looking at how much money I'm making for my company, but more that I feel like I'm making a difference.. I wouldn't trade my job for anything else because I love what I do... but if I didn't like my job.. I would feel working the hours I work would be like hell.
Well, let's turn it around and look at it the other way: isn't it a bit hypocritical to insult people for wanting decent jobs even as you apparently have one you really, really like? Do you think people just aren't applying for jobs, that in the last three years, a big part of the population just threw up their hands and said, "Welp, think I'll take a walk now," and quit?
Then there's this: should everyone have to work 100+ hour weeks just to keep food on the table and little Suzie in braces? Wages aren't keeping up with the costs of living; hundreds of major companies have announced thousands of layoffs; and yet numerous CEOs, top-tier managers, and financiers are walking away with unprecedented personal profits, many of which are structured so as to be tax exempt. Is this just? Is this right?
How about this: does the fact that your work is enjoyable to you mean that you shouldn't be well-compensated for it? Is your work really so frivolous as that? If you're "making a difference," then why aren't your employers acknowledging it? Flip it over again: if unpleasantness equals worthiness, why aren't we paying the guys on Dirty Jobs upper six-figure incomes? Why aren't our maimed soldiers coming home made men, given courtesy McMansions, sports cars, and gratis jet travel for golf on Pebble Beach? They gave arms and legs and everything in-between for us, to say nothing of the immense trauma of being instructed to and ordered to kill. That's a heavy weight.
OK, I'm not trying to chew you out here. Nevertheless, I'm perplexed, and I feel pressed to put you on the spot a bit. You say you enjoy your job and that you make a difference, but you also claim to work 110+ hours weekly, and you imply (maybe I'm misreading you) that you aren't getting paid too terribly well. You say that people who don't want to work long hours in unenjoyable jobs for bad pay are just plain lazy, period. Now, as someone who apparently works in a field you really enjoy, on what basis are you criticizing others who say they want to either work a job they enjoy as you do, or, alternately, to receive decent pay and benefits for a job they might not enjoy, but are willing to consider? Furthermore, how do you square ANY of this with the overall lack of domestic jobs?
Well, I enjoy my job and I work long hours weekly.. No I don't work a domestic job, and I don't get compensated really well.. But I just think expecting to work just 40 hours a week is tough, if you still want to have a car, nice house and be able to send your kids to college. The rest of the world is working 60 - 70 hours to make that happen. Just my opinion.
inearth says "Stop bitching..."
& The clincher: he says "lazy worthless wastes of space like "ihopethishelps" spend most of their time complaining about how shitty their lives are...."
Wow, inearth, is that last sentence about you?
Thanks for sharing that, now we really understand what this whole thread was about.
Has your ego been satisfied in what it gained here?
He making something up and is pretty bad at arguing as well. Huge moron
If he's being honest, then you're mistaken, and I've got an honest question for him.
If it's the case that he's not being honest, his story doesn't support his claim, and I've still got a question for him.
Either way, every so often, someone has to make a gesture of good faith. Maybe it's wasted, maybe not. I'm a pretty quick writer, I'm not out that much time if this guy is just dithering, and maybe someone else will get something out of it. shrug It's not like I'm the only one responding.
hey "ihopethishelps".. its ok man.. just hang in there, you'll eventually get to work as little as possible while the rest of us struggle.
inearth, says "hey retard"
Again, my point, trolls always have this tell-tale behavior of belittling & name calling.
My suggestion, don't feed the TROLLS. But, as duality has it, I already participated in it. But, my point, and only point, is to identify this TROLL. We need to get them labelled ASAP. As I think someone else said here. They don't come seeking or wanting to share knowledge in any repectable way. They give themselves up the moment they start into the name calling and belittling. They are really are hateful. If you have point it gains respect by being truthful and can be defended because truth will support it. Truth is always evident, if not, then wonder.
I still don't know what is wrong with you, but ok, I'm going to try and stop trying to figure that one out. A team of medical experts need to help you sort out your issues.
You seem to be really hateful here. Clearly because you hate that I'm asking people to do more than protest.. I'm asking people to also try and change their work conditions.
You are trolling. And please don't put words in my mouth.
I have been calling for a boycott on imported goods. I want a job so bad I want to work my fingers to the bone work at a job I can be proud of I want a manufacturing job!!!! Buy Made in the USA!!!!!! Boycott and Blacklist companies that sent our jobs overseas that's how committed I am to this. I won't buy a Damn thing unless its made here and neither should you. I'm not supporting job exporters with my hard earned money they can kiss my tucckus!!!
I didn't jump at your little job offer tidbit because I'm employed.
Self- employed. How do you know others are not employed too?
Don't you have any other place to post employment ads if you're not getting results here?
Employment ads? Don't assume to know me.. I'm a software engineer that took time (2 months) out of my life to help employ people with ZERO financial gain... I'm a lot better of a human being than your sorry ass. When I offered work, I didn't offer them a chance to work for me.. I offered them a chance to work for themselves.. I don't make a dime off of the help I provide.. I just don't want kids to go hungry and or people to suffer.
I'm with you on this one inearth. Maybe not everyone on here doesn't want to work, but I'm sure there are plenty. Anyway, biggest thing is that whole 99% thing is crap. I make $27,000 a year, but I can't say I side with the 99%ers about the whole "corporate greed" crap. Keeping special interests out of Washington? Yep. But for me special interests are not only corporations, but also illegal immigrants, poor people(the kind that don't want to work), ect. ect
You are so right, those damned illegals. They're really fucking our country up! How much money does that illegal immigrant lobby have, again? It's at least $20 billion a year that they throw at politicians, huh? It couldn't be that some big business benefits when a blind eye is turned toward illegal immigration and an abundance of cheap labor... nah, that's stupid! Forget I even suggested that! HA!
How about the poor people lobby? I specifically mean the lobby for the ones that don't want to work. They give politicians at least $85 billion a year, I'll wager.
Way more than what Koch Industries and McDonald's and Exxon and Citigroup pay politicians combined, that's for damn sure.
You seem to think that the only thing that matters in this country's economics is how the rich impact it. Did I ever say that welfare recipients lobby Congress? No. Did I ever say that illegal immigrants lobby Congress? No. I simply said they are special interests, and they are. Politicians play all sides to get votes. Give major tax breaks to the rich. Got their vote. Double-speak about illegal immigration in this country so politicians can look like they are doing something about it, but not really. Cool, got some nationalist voters and now that I'm showing sympathy to the nonviolent illegal immigrants, the legal family members of the illegals will vote for me too. Now, lets just pass out some more government "assistance", and promise more social programs for the poor. Sweet. Got their votes too.
Special interests. See here is where you get is screwed up. I'm all for getting bribery out of Congress, but like I said before, I want all the special interest crap out. Laws should be created for the COMMON good of US Citizens, not for special interest of any kind. Once you do for one special group, then you have to explain why you aren't doing for all special groups.
Money wins elections, friend. Period. Not poor people's votes, not illegal immigrants' family members' votes, not my vote, and not your vote. Money. You think you, or I, or any of those illegal immigrants' families are the politicians' constituencies? Nope. It is the corporations that pay for their campaigns.
On average a US representative has to raise over $10K a week for the two years of his/her term to pay for their re-election. A senator has to raise over $64K a week for the six years of their term, more in big states like California or New York.
Now, if you really hate poor people (sounds like you do, but at 27K a year you're just one illness away from the poorhouse yourself) you can keep arguing against your own interests. Don't want poor people to have a voice because you suspect they're lazy or someone in their family snuck into the country? OK, then keep dreaming up those shiftless bogeymen that are 'taking your hard-earned money'. All the while Bill Gates and Warren Buffett and Larry Ellison and Charles Koch and David Koch and Christy Walton and George Soros and Sheldon Adelson and Jim Walton and Alice Walton and Mark Zuckerberg and a few others are laughing their way to the bank.
We live in an unfair society. Wake up! It's unfair to you too, and it doesn't have anything to do with the class beneath you. They are mere pawns in this game. And if you side with the ultrarich against your own interests, you become a pawn too.
My interests? See here is where reason ends and propaganda begins. See you keep repeating this hate the rich mantra over and over again regardless of what I say. I already said that I support the idea of getting special interests money out of politics(it will never happen, but I support it); yet, you ignore that part of what I said and focus on everything else. Additionally, you go on to bring up the fact that I only make 27k a year, and somehow should align me with the OWS movement. The fact that my finances place me within the so-called 99% does not mean that my beliefs and convictions align me with the 99%ers. So as for my interest in all this. I believe a man should be free to do whatever he wants; however, he is not entitled to anything, least of all the rewards of someone else's hard work, unless the other man has consented to the arrangement.
Funny thing about all this. Last year, my daughter and I were discussing politics. She says she is a Democrat and I'm an Independent. We were talking about social programs, and she said she believed we needed more of them. I tried explaining how the government does not have the right to take money from me and give it to charity. This argument went on for a few minutes and finally I could tell she wasn't understanding what I was saying at all, so I tried to make her look at it from another point. I said, "Do you think it would be fine for a teacher to take points off of a student's test who made a 100 and give those points to a student who made a zero because he/she didn't try, just to give the 0 student a passing grade?"
Her response, "It depends on if I made 100 or if I made a 0."
You are right. I am unreasonable and I am talking propaganda. You are reasonable and your statements are fact-based. You have thought this through. You know the way things work.
I guess we should abolish government spending entirely, except for national defense and to keep the illegals out. Maybe a few corporate incentives here and there to encourage business. Any welfare like social security and medicare should be abolished though. It's for people who just want to leech off the system. I'm not planning on it being there when I retire - I have adequate savings without it. I'm guessing you do too?
Now that I think about it, let's stop spending on public schools too. That's a social (charity) program I can do without, because I don't have kids. You can send your daughter to private school if you want her to go because I'm sick of paying for that nonsense. If you can't afford private school maybe she can go to work for me instead. She'd actually be contributing then, as opposed to leeching off of me and my hard-earned taxes.
Good luck.
Glad we agree.
There are a lot of illegal immigrants I have seen selling fruit on the side of the road for a living.. a lot of them do the jobs we really don't want to do... (the kind that don't want to work) are the minority. Most do work and work awful number of hours.. I've seen some when I was doing social volunteer work... they hadn't slept in days because they worked so hard..
Kick out the illegals and then force people on government assistance to do the jobs the illegals were doing. So long as they are physically capable that is. I don't buy the poor, pitiful, non-violent illegal alien just wanting a better life for his/her family rap. Fact of the matter, if I were growing and selling weed(nonviolent crime), I don't think the judge would say, "Well, since what you were doing was not violent and you were just trying to make more money for your family, don't worry about that whole jail time thing. Go on back out there and sale some more weed. I understand."
Well I definitely agree that people on social assistance need to be freakin working...
inearth, says "They're lazy as hell" & "f*ing working"
TROLL TROLL TROLL
you better watch your tongue sir.
I'm a conservative. Hyper conservative. Way more conservative probably than you.
These kids are working but you just don't have the eyes to see.
you are haughty and proud and you have your head up your ass and you probably have never worked an honest day in your life for all the understanding you show because a man that works does so with joy and that ain't what you are bringing.
i think you need to stop and take a look at yourself and if that don't work, come right over here to Arizona and see if you can last a day at what we do.
We don't have to kick your ass, the job will do for you.
Wait.. the work I do is not an honest days work?.. because I'm an engineer? I'm sorry, but I do work hard.. and I work a lot more hours than you.
ok, will you accept an appology? just don't beat up on the kids. DON'T CRITICIZE, LEAD!
oh so not, i'm a technology project manager. we get paid for like 1/10th of our time. respect to you though, for being an engineer. perhaps i was rash in calling you out as an enemy.
ok no problem, apology accepted.. and you'd be surprised what I get paid... it is a lot less than you'd imagine.. and yea, I'm not an enemy because in my spare time I've been working hard to use my skills to try and help those that don't have jobs, try to find jobs... I don't want anyone to suffer, and if I can help.. I will!
inearth, says, "ok no problem, apology accepted"
funny coming from a TROLL
you just made a friend in arizona
that is very decent of you. i hope you can parse my number. we make really good tuna salad
aLib you are calling this TROLL "very decent"?
WOW. Have you read what inearth tells everyone else. I guess it does make some sense since TROLLS would take care of those who are in lock step with them.
So far you've replied to most of my posts just calling me a troll.. you have nothing useful to contribute other than that..
Spoken like a true troll... go trolling somewhere else.
Finally, the kettle calls itself black.
Well, inearth, you have finally reached the pinnacle of Trollhood, any more musing ramblings?
No Im pissed off, I have been for a while and this is the biggest hope we are ever going to have of living the lifestyle the country was founded to provide us.
Don't compare yourself to the billionaires.. compare yourself to guys like me who work our asses off.
I work just as much as you. 2 jobs 60-70 hours a week. I just got off work, I'm going back in 5 hours. I'm sick of it. I didn't create this mess, I'm not guilty of overspending, but my economy was ruined and the banks are mostly to blame. I don't want to be rich, I could care less. I want to work a 40 hour work week and enjoy my family, you know "The American Dream".
I got news for you... The american dream isn't working 40 hours a week.. No self respecting American I know works 40 hours a week.. I've been working 100 hour weeks since I was 21.. I've gone 10 weeks straight working 15 hours a day 7 days a week.. to a point where I didn't even know what day it was most of the time... The american dream is to be able to achieve success by working your ass off...
No, the American Dream is having the Freedom to do as you please, so long as that does not hurt or take away from others.
Problem with Freedom is that Freedom comes with responsibilities. To be free, you have to use that freedom responsibly. You have to respect the freedom of others; otherwise, others will take your freedom away from you. You have to be rely on yourself; otherwise, you are not free.
Unfortunately the idea of Freedoms has been replaced by the idea of "rights".
Nope. That is the product of greed. I don't want to be super rich. I want to enjoy my family and live in a decent neighborhood. 9-5 with Saturday's and Sunday's off was the college graduates work week in days past. Why do i have to work 70 hours a week and be underemployed because some large corporations are toting with our way of living for the sake of making more money they anyone could ever need?
Don't call what I do greed ok?.. I'm ambitious and am willing to work hard to get where I want to be in life.. I love learning at my job.. and I don't mind it.. What looks like greed to you is ambition to not end up being mediocre like you. complaining about 70 hours a week?...
What you're doing isn't greedy and no one is suggesting it is. In fact I would suggest that it is honorable. Working as much as you do should get you rich, really rich, you certainly deserve it. However, for others without your drive, working 40 hours a week should give them a decent standard of living.
As Americans, are we that much better than everyone else? that we should get the privilege of working 40 hours a week?.. I don't think I'll ever be rich, no matter how hard I'm working now.. but I know many people from different countries and I don't know one single person who works less than 70 hours a week. And I do know a lot of poor people.. These are all non-americans.. My father worked 90 hour weeks in a shit job to put food on our table and put me through university.. I guess I'm trying to empathize with the 40 hour worker and I'm failing to do so.
As humans we are all better than we are treated. As a compassionate nation we should only agree to trade deals that aim to achieve similar standards for workers in every country we deal with. It is not impossible. We do not have to exploit the world to line the pockets of the rich and powerful. And what do we get for our duplicity in not questioning the brutality of sweat shops, a cut of the action, or just cheap plastic goods?
Fine I hope you reach your definition of success. People were t supposed to work work 70 hours a week just to pay their fucking bills. I want to raise my daughter and I don't need that much money to do that. I value my TIME. If you want to work your ass off and have mansion and sports cars, go for it. Thats not my dream, but I have accept it as reality because wall st and big business have run a mock.
what are you ranting about then? if you value time and not money, get a basic job that pays you for working 40 hours a week and enjoy your time off with your family. attacking people who work hard just makes this movement look more and more idiotic by the day.
How am I attacking people that work hard? Where is this magic job that I can get genius. What did you think I was going to read your post and say gee I never thought of that? I have to work that much to support my family and pay our rent, gas our cars, pay our medical insurance. No debt, just bills. I have to wrk this much just to make sure i am saving something in case my family has an emergency. Fuck off calling me lazy. Basic jobs that could allow me to do this don't exist anymore because the economy is in the fucking tank you moron.
All you're still doing is ranting and raving about the same problems 99% of us all face. I'm sorry I didn't take the time to list out all of my bills that I have to pay and the things that I want to save up for. Actually I'm not sorry about it, because it's irrelevant. When I need to save, I cut my expenses - it's not rocket science.
My family came to this country 50 years ago with 2 suitcases and 10 American dollars and guess what? After 40 years of struggling, we're finally doing ok. We've chosen to have less than everyone around us in order to avoid debt and be able to spend for emergencies and when we need to. But keep telling me about how all the basic jobs are gone, how only people who want mansions and sports cars work hard and how it's the economy's fault.
We all have to do what you're doing, except we have accepted this... 99% of the world already does this.. but people like you complain. 99% of the people aren't complaining in my opinion. only a small portion are... Look I'm not arguing things are messed up, and I support OWS.. just think that we need to find proactive ways to make things better.
I work as hard as I do not to have a mansion or a sports car... Maybe the difference in my line of work is, I love my job.. I get to learn a lot... I don't get paid for the extra hours I work.. far from a mansion sir.. sports car?.. I don't even own a bicycle... I live probably poorer than you... Stop blaming others for how "sucky" your life is, because I guarantee you, most people out there would love to have your life... a good family... Wanna trade lives with me?.. I'll bet you wouldn't..
I don't believe you. I don't think you love your job.
In fact, I think you are jealous.
You think the protestors are getting to have more fun than you. You have to work all the time but you see them and think, Those spoiled brats. You don't just think they are crybabies, because you wouldn't really care enough to post if that were the case. You think they are having more fun than you are, and they're doing it in a way that's not ok with you, because it's not through 'work', and they're still complaining even though you think they have it so good relative to you.
If you loved your job, you wouldn't be angry at people who want a decent life without working to death. You would say, Well, my choice is to do this because I love it, but I don't begrudge someone who would want to spend more time with his or her family instead of staring at a computer 80 hours a week like I do. And I believe they should still have food on the table and a place to live and healthcare if they do college-educated work for 40 hours a week.
It's no sweat off your back to support that. No one is asking you to pay any more (you openly admit you are not wealthy and probably will never be). Moreover, what this group wants and WILL eventually make happen will benefit you. Why would you be angry about something that directly benefits you and levels the playing field for you?
Because unconsciously you believe in a caste system. You believe the elites are better than you, so you don't get angry with them for having it so good. But you see the protestors as beneath you or your equals, and it makes you angry when they complain that things are bad for them. You don't complain (you work 70 hours a week and no one thanks you and you don't have any money blah blah blah) - but that's not complaining, of course. You're jealous of the fun you think they're having and the fact that they are speaking up (you always did what you were told). It's just not fair. So you're angry, and you're jealous.
And those negative emotions are all directed at the wrong people - the people who are protesting so that you can have a better life.
No, I'm not jealous.. I'm angry at the fact that a few dickheads are complaining when 98% are doing their job...
Inearth, clearly you misunderstood the reason people are protesting. How convenient for you to simple label the people as 'lazy' and 'do not want to work'. You think you're the only noble and hardworking one huh? So that gives you the right to insult people out of your own ignorance?
First, let it be understood that human beings are born with curiosity and we continually want to explore and work on things that interest us. As kids, we are taught to have great ambitions, how engineers invent stuffs, how astronomers explore the space, how doctors save people, how architects build stuffs and how scientists discover stuffs. We all once had the noblest of ambitions, best of intentions. A few years more into life, what happened? People around us showed us something known as 'money', that we have to earn it, and not merely earn, but compete for it. Without it, nothing can be done. Big ambitions were shattered just like that, because 'living' and 'learning' apparently requires these 'printed papers' with values fixed by someone in the 'higher order' of the society, whatever the f it is. F that.
People want ingenuity, not jobs. People want to live, learn and work on their dreams and ambitions, not chasing sales or administrating office for someone else. People want to create stuffs, not trade around some imaginary numbers on stock-broking screens. Someone who wants to work as a doctor will have to take up so much loan that it will ruin his livelihood, and he cannot make life-saving medicines that totally eradicated a certain disease because pharmaceutical companies want to keep the disease around to sell their half-baked pills and vaccines.
F the monetary economy and everyone else who supports this outdated, inherently corrupted and flawed system. We all can have a new system that does not exploit people, and take care of our bare necessities from food to education so that all people ever do is to live their life to the fullest, and being able to contribute to the society in a practical sense (not making shitload of money and donate some and call it a success). We want a system, a world where no donation is required because no one is left behind in a true emergent society that advances scientifically and technologically, aligned with how the natural physical world works (science) and is not stifled by money and politics or the fking interests of a small group of people. WAKE THE F UP!
Didn't the holocaust start this way? Where the germans blamed the Jews for all their money problems?... So when do we start attacking the rest of us?
"It is clear to me, you people really don't want to work... "
What the hell took ya so long to figure that out....now please get back to work.....every second you waste bullshittin' in here is costing us on the gov't foodstamps subsidy.
This is the greatest country on Earth with the best and biggest opportunities for everyone. Everyone has a right to be in the so called "1%" if they wanted to, but that would mean for them to get off their lazy butts, leave the Wallstreet protest, and START WORKING!!!
You're right. These people actually do not want to work. They want everything handed to them. They say banks are the problem when it is actually them. IF it wasn't for the banks I would not have my comfortable house and my two vehicles that I enjoy and no, I am not rich. I work for my stuff and don't need the government handing me free stuff.
hells yeah game on. YOU TAKE YOUR BIG MOUTH RIGHT OVER HERE AND LETS DO SOME GOLD PANNING, WE HAVE EXACTLY 7 METRIC TONS OF OVERBURDEN TO GET THROUGH BEFORE WE START CLASSIFYING AND YOU JUST SEE IF YOU CAN TAKE IT.
YOU SLOVENLY, ENTITLED RICH ASS MOTHER FUCKER HOW DARE YOU INSULT MY CHILDREN? Want to come get bitten by a pitbull before we raise a rifle? Just who the hell do you think you are talking to? You watch your entitled pampered ass and if you think you get to hurt our children with impunity, one day, you wait, one day we are gonna hit you once and that's gonna be the last because browy, you ain't gonna wake up after that.
All these cops hitting the females, all of you acting with impunity, you want to know what?
Do you really want to know?
Because you are gonna find out and it's not gonna be good. It's gonna be bad. Really bad. And there's only one person, one people that can stop this and that's you because you are the aggressors. You have the power of choice. You can stop being you or we will come and put a whole new definition of you. That's as clear as we can make it. You hurt my child, you hurt my wife and thence my whole family.
Then Billy will come and close your eyes. You hurt me, my brothers will kill you just as sure as you breathe and if they can't get you, guess what happens then?
Then we got a war on our hands. Which doesn't need to be.
And our enemies don't play by the old rules but how about this, a promise just between you and us: we leave the women and kids out of it. And I'll make you a promise: if i see your female or your kids naked and starving, we'll take them in and you owe us nothing.
This in the face of you reviling us and we know that you would hate on our women and children and so be it. Know this, in a fair fight i could lay waste to you and your whole tribe. But I won't. I keep my eyes open and if your women or children are ever hungry and undefended we will keep them. And that's a hard job.
Take everything you have inside of you and just try to do better than me. I don't think you can.
What are you talking about?
All the OWS people need to take a lesson in economics. You all complain about working long hours for little pay, but it is better than no job at all. When government intervenes with price floors all it does is create shortages and more unemployment. Also the 5 dollar a month BOA fee that everyone was complaining about was only instated because of a irrational price control bill on banks. If the government never tried to step in then there would be no fee.
huh? dunno. what do you want to talk about? i posted my real phone number. wanna blab?
we are all priests or doctors of medicine. i'm a priest.
nah, thats ok. Just saw your post and thought you were a very interesting(insane) person. It was kind of entertaining. Just didn't know what meds you were on.
pretty much just beer and tobacco and some kush. my people are pretty much genetcially insane