Forum Post: You guys need to get a life... and jobs.
Posted 13 years ago on Oct. 17, 2011, 9:47 a.m. EST by utesichiban
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Seriously, watching you deadbeats camp in a park and protest for (errr. against?) a cause most of you don't understand is pure comedy gold. Karl Marx and Josef Stalin would be proud.
Unfortunatley, the "super" rich are paying 70% of the nation's tax bill aleady. All of you collectively probably pay next to nothing, evidenced by the fact you have nothing better to do with your lives than camp out in a park and fight with each other.
My advice to all of you? Better educate yourselves, study history and realize that capitalism is a far better option than socialism, take a shower, and get a job.
I am sick of these troll comments that try to shame people into silence. You don't know anything about the supporters of OWS. You don't know if they have jobs or not. You don't know how much personal wealth they have. You just want to silence people who might have a position that threatens you. Listen trolls, you guys need to study history and the facts. You need to realize that capitalism, in its current state, isn't working for everyone. And, in America, as far as I know, we still have the right to dissent.
You say "we" want to silence those who have a position that threatens us. I for one would like to know what your positions are. We have a good idea what you are against but what are you proposing as goals and solutions? The difference between a movement and an angry mob is a goal.
Here's a link to the official declaration of the General Assembly of OWS:
http://nycga.cc/2011/09/30/declaration-of-the-occupation-of-new-york-city/
It was written early on but it's a good outline.
If you want the top three positions according to me, I'd say it's get the money out of politics, reinstate Glass Steagall, and end the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy.
I stand behind the protesters who are standing up for my beliefs. Showers or no showers.
My wife and I make what should be a good income, we are not jobless deadbeats. We are frustrated with the high cost of everything. My daughter needs a cavity drilled. Its $500 for that, even with the premium insurance provided to a Federal worker. What the hell is going on?
The "rich" don't really pay any taxes at all. It is an illusion soaked up by the math challenged. They own businesses and control vast streams of revenue that would boggle your mind. One thing I learned in my small business early on was that my tax burden was shouldered by my customers. THEY paid my taxes. If I felt that I wasn't making enough, I just increased my pay, regardless of what my tax bill was because I always had access to the revenue stream of the business and could literally keep what I wanted. That was a small business with a revenue of about $200,000.00 per year, super small. If you had ever been in business you would understand these things.
The customers pay all the taxes. So that means you! After they zap your payroll earnings, you get to keep some money with which you run out and pay their taxes too--whenever you buy anything.
Our thoughts become distorted by getting paychecks. It is literally called the "Paycheck Mentality" by entrepreneurs. Money looks and acts very different for the person getting a paycheck than it does for someone controlling a revenue stream.
+1 excellent
Actually I own a business that employs dozens of people. Been in business over 10 years. I'm what you might like to call a job creator. And I think the Occupy Wall Street movement is the best thing to happen to America since the civil rights movement. I think you need to pay closer attention. Read this: http://occupywallst.org/forum/the-next-time-you-encounter-someone-who-is-curious/ . Then try to tell me how lazy and dirty we all are.
Peace to all of you; my fellow Americans
Seriously reading the comments of shallow ignorant narcissistic obtuse sociopathic right wing tools who prove yet again just how little they are connected to their own humanity who think because they have money that they have an opinion worth listening too, is pure comedy gold.
um, i'm slightly more conservative than liberal. I am 25 and started my own business last year with no college education, just life experience..poor..bad neighborhood..you've heard it before. I've been researching this movement for days now, and at the 99%declaration website, it seems they want capitalism also. It's what motivates people to be get up and work hard and EARN what they have. They, and me, just want corporate influence of politicians GONE, lobbyists, bribery, passing bills that allow big business to get what they "contributed" to the campaigns for. But capitalism and democracy (not democratic party, or republican for that matter) have to stay or we'll be like germany, soviet union, communist china..by the way those are all long gone.
Agreed. We can have radical democracy and a radical free-market. They are complementary, as long as money is out of politics. It's that simple. This should be our message. It's the only thing that I know that can unite the 99% (maybe even most of the 1%).
How do we get a hold of whos in charge?
There is no one in charge. This is a good thing. I'm hoping this point of unity will come about through consensus.
and no one sane and rational is asking for either capitalism or democracy to go away, What does need to happen is a legal constitutional firewall needs to be built between the two distinct expressions that are capitalism and democracy, so that they will limit each other negative tendencies, instead of now they are joined in a dysfunctional unholy marriage that reinforce their negative tendencies of greed and control
like laws that regulate money exchanges from financially powerful organizations and possibly individuals and other aspects of..whatever, and a checks and balances system geared toward "auditing campaign contributions and other extensively large exchanges at so and so set number or something," carefully and honestly" to insure no wrongdoing of any kind? Yes, I'd vote for that if it were an option, let's make it one since we have attention of basically the world through media and internet. Redistribution of wealth on Corps, individuals or through government, now that one don't feel so right. Fine an entity or individual 40billion dollars, if he has it, for paying and receiving money for illegitimate, unethical, just plain wrong motives or reasons like alot of these people do and have been convicted of, Yes it's a crime that you came into profit because of, therefore..yea, your money is gone, we'll give you wife and kids an allowance for ramen noodles and diapers or something. But I don't really want what i haven't earned or been willingly given as a gift except for the ability to keep more money I earn as an individual or as a small business through tax changes. More welfare type stuff and debt relief sound nice but then the government is just redistributing more of our tax dollars from working hard and earning it, why not let us choose what to do with it. Also I say bring outsourced foreign jobs back to American workers, buy more American made and export more..sounds like money to afford millions of jobs and bring in more taxes.
A lot of them don't have money, either, that's the sad part.
Capitalism is based on the property of exponential growth: that profits will continue to increase without bound. Nature has proven time and time again, that exponential growth does not exist. Species reach a certain point after which they are no longer sustainable and massive quantities of the populations start to die. It is the natural system of cycling and recycling matter. The physics property of "energy can neither be created nor destroyed" comes into play here too. Capitalism is based on a principle that energy can be created exponentially. Unfortunately, things only grow until a certain point and then decline. Ie: Sin curve
've said it before, and I'll say it again: One of the main pillars of Conservative propaganda is that both parties are the same. Nothing they say is further from the truth. It is an insidious lie intended to demoralize progressives, and discourage them from voting. Do not fall for this canard, because if both parties are the same, there is no hope for change, and therefore no reason to vote. The truth is that there is a difference between the parties. A stark difference! One party works for the rich, the other party works for all Americans. One party takes money from the needy to feed the greedy, and the other party takes money from the greedy to feed the needy. One party has plans and policies to create jobs, and the other party has a long list of lame excuses for not doing anything. Liberals want to change things. Conservatives want things to stay the same. There is a difference. One party wants to tax the rich, and the other party wants to tax the poor. One party wants to destroy Unions, and the other party wants to support them. One party supports the Occupation of Wall Street, and the other party doesn’t. One party wants to rebuild America, and the other party doesn’t. One party wants to provide health care for all, and the other party doesn’t. One party wants to regulate Wall Street, and the other party doesn’t. One Party wants to end the wars; the other party wants them to go on forever. There is a difference. One party is Myopic, and the other party is Far Sighted. One party wants to help the Middle Class, and the other party is at war with the Middle Class. One party wants to fire Teachers, and the other party wants to hire them. One party wants to create more jobs in America, and the other party wants to create more jobs in Asia. There is a difference. One party wants to protect pensions, and the other party wants to loot them. One party has a heart, and the other party has Ann Coulter. One party protects the right bear Arms, and the other party protects the right of freedom of assembly. One party believes that the only role for the Government is to provide for the common defense, and the other party believes that the Government should also promote the general Welfare. There is a difference, and anybody that tells you there is no difference between the parties is simply not conversant with reality. In addition, anyone that blames the Democrats for the current state of affairs has no understanding of who controls the Government. One Party has the Presidency, and the other party has the Majority in the House, controls the Senate, has a majority on the Supreme Court, and is responsible for current economic policy. So, if you’re angry, and you want to start a real fight, I submit that we should start a real fight with the Conservatives! America has a Two Party System. One party is clearly on your side, the other party thinks you’re and Anti-American mob. At some point in time you’re going to have to pick one. Choose wisely, your future is at stake
You are correct Both parties are not the same but both parties are controlled by the legalized system of graft and corruption that is campaign finance. The Republicans are cynical sociopathic corporate tools that support and protect that system of corruption and The Democrats are week spineless fools who ignore it and refuse to stand up to it
thats why ows will never support republican views
First of all....lol. Many of the protestors HAVE jobs AND educations.
Secondly, the super rich control over 80% of the nation's wealth, so they should be forking over AT LEAST another 10%. And in fact, if you factor in state and local taxes, the poor and middle class are sometimes paying a greater percentage of their income in taxes than the rich.
Third, demanding that our government put the well-being of its people before corporations (and healthcare before warfare) is not advocating for socialism, it's advocating for social justice.
I agree with you. Thank you for your intelligent perspective.
Friend you do know that those that succeed in this system need only be ruthless and violent. Those are the one's at the top. If hard work had anything to do with it most 14 year old Chinese slave laborers making your iphone would be multi-millioniares.
DEMAND PEACE. Stop lying to yourself. Join in and be free.
Dear utesichiban (Schlobolak for "Uninformed.") Nobody I know favors socialism over capitalism, so get your info straight. What has been occurring in the business world is not capitalism; it is criminal rip off of the majority of the population. BTW, I have not a job but a profession, as do the majority of the people I encounter in this groundswell. So stop trying to mischaracterize and dismiss a momentum that is going to eat your ignorant ass. I have a doctorate degree, shower regularly, and have the confidence to pray for your ignorant donkey.
What do you not understand that this movement is not about just taxing the rich more. That is just a idea that Obama put out and now Fox uses it as talking point for the OWS protests. Please stop generalizing a whole movement by you're own personal assumptions.
Some rich want to pay 100% of the taxes because they are giving out jobs way below the poverty line, so if one person had all the money and paid 100% of the taxes and the rest of us were slaves you would say the slaves should pay their fair share and what would that be? THINK please.
Need knowledge, self-control, and RESOURCES to have freedom and if 1% owns all the resources the rest can not be vary free. Life is all about relationships and getting them right. Put your faith in truth which is about knowing relationships in your life. Put your hope in freedom which is about choosing relationships in your life. Put your trust in love which is about caring relationships in your life. Truth, freedom, love are good. Deceit, slavery, hate are bad. Choosing good is moral. Choosing bad is evil. Of these values freedom is the easiest to loose because you need resources to have it, but if you have more resources than you can use they end up owning you and resources not used or not used in a sustainable way get wasted and when resources are wasted it means less freedom for someone somewhere.
If you share these values spread the WORD, I took years getting this right and you may say that it should have been easy but like the knowledge that the earth goes around the sun if you did not know it that knowledge would be hard to get, we have to teach knowledge or the knowledge dies with us. Have faith, hope, trust in truth, freedom, love David McDonell of Ironwood MI debdaveandpets@gmail.com
What do you do for a living?
OK. Are you hiring?
why would Josef Stalin be proud ?
I won’t insult your intelligence by suggesting that you really believe what you just said
Dear Occupy Wall Street
I believe that the protest needs a focus and one of the two major ones are jobs and the banks because the banks caused the world wide problems.
But when the Banks lobbied both this While House and the Bush While House that they were to big to fail and the government had to bail them out using taxpayer money the taxpayer got nothing back but the bill.
There was no JUSTICE, not one of the banks or mortgage companies that funded the loans and made millions and millions or dollars did a day in jail. Madof went to jail because the stole from the RICH the banks stole from Middle Class.
This should not have been a This should not have been a Democrat or Republic issues this should have been one of right vs. wrong and it was wrong of the Government to bail out the banks using taxpayer dollars and allow the banks to still foreclose on homes leaving children homeless all over the United States.
Both sides want money from Wall Street and the Banks and both sides sell the middle class down the river. Right now this Administration promised to hold the banks accountable and force them to refinance homes. Today only 600,000 homes out of 4 million are refinanced and nothing is done. Well Fargo is one of the biggest problems but because they support the White House Agenda nothing is done. Right now today the signs on Wall Street should say not one more home in the US to be foreclosed not one more child put on the streets.
Job yes we need jobs and Government needs to get out of the way of small business again they like the Middle Class are the ones that pay the bill for all the regulations.
Again GE received money from the US Taxpayer and where are they going to build there new electric care the US NO KOREA that where. The rule should be simple if you take money from the US people you keep JOB in the US. If you want tax brakes fine you get them if you hire in the US.
So Let make what we want clean Justice from the American Taxpayer Bank of America took money to bail our there bank and are still throwing American Children onto the streets but can pay 10 million dollars to a bank employee that was responsible for the fact the bank had to be bailed out in the first place. How many homes would that have paid off, how many mortgages could they have modified using that money.
That is the Greed
By the way the US government in the first depression held mortgages for over 50 years rather then have children be put on the Street why don't they step in now
We are not capitalistic anymore. We are a plutocratic republic. Plutocracies fail. We are on the precipice. This movement is to save the United States from those that would blithely ignore all the signs of impending collapse!
Oligarchy too!
You should realize that when people don't have jobs, that chaos and uprisings happen. Get it?
Where are the America Jobs? they went to main land China because of corporate greed. Thank You
This movement has become one big HYPOCRACY ! if you look at the money behind it now, these people protesting have become pawns for people like George Sorros
The fact is that only 50% of the population, after April 15th and the tax returns get done and the government giveaways get calculated, actually pay a net tax into the government. My step-son is homeless by choice ...he wants no responsibility in his life. He worked maybe 50 days this past year at day labor to make beer, cigarette, and marijuana money and lives a day or two at friends houses or on the street...by choice. He made just over $2000 dollars for the entire year, but after he did his taxes, he got $1200 back from the feds. He only paid in about $150. That right there is what is wrong with America...we reward people for being uselesss and expect a guy like me, who is a blue collar worker but is one of the 50% with a net payout to the govt. every year, to tote the load.
BTW, if those people have the resources to camp out for months at a time to protest something they have not the ability to understand, they are way better off then I am....I can't afford to miss a single day of work.
Also, what exactly is the plan...I've read a number of sites and I see a call to action, but no plan....where's the plan?
The fact is that only 50% of the population, after April 15th and the tax returns get done and the government giveaways get calculated, actually pay a net tax into the government. My step-son is homeless by choice ...he wants no responsibility in his life. He worked maybe 50 days this past year at day labor to make beer, cigarette, and marijuana money and lives a day or two at friends houses or on the street...by choice. He made just over $2000 dollars for the entire year, but after he did his taxes, he got $1200 back from the feds. He only paid in about $150. That right there is what is wrong with America...we reward people for being uselesss and expect a guy like me, who is a blue collar worker but is one of the 50% with a net payout to the govt. every year, to tote the load.
BTW, if those people have the resources to camp out for months at a time to protest something they have not the ability to understand, they are way better off then I am....I can't afford to miss a single day of work.
Also, what exactly is the plan...I've read a number of sites and I see a call to action, but no plan....where's the plan?
As far as I can tell, the plan right now is Action. And I am sorry to hear about your son. I do not agree that he should be allowed to live off the system like that. He is giving true hard-workers a bad name
You are totally misreading what is happening there. You should come down to the park and speak to the people. Chances are you are one of them. Welcome
Seems like every dimwitted reactionary out there has an opinion to express. Call me when you have something original or half-ways intelligent to say.
DTX,-- You obviously believe in penelizing success. I don't. Why would the wealthy be taxed more? Flat tax is the way to go. We are all equal Americans so why not have everyone pay the same percentage? Just because somehow is RICH doesn't mean you're entitled to THEIR money!
Just because someone is rich doesn't mean that THEY are entitled to their own money. And just because someone is poor does not mean they are entitled to starve. It is a misconception that if you are poor you do not work. It is a misconception that if you are rich, you worked for your money. Yes, there are rich people who have earned every penny, and their are lazy poor people. But, these are the exceptions, not the rules. In general, the poor work extremely hard to maintain their lives. And not just here in America, but in countries where you can sell your child to a sweat-shop for $16. I believe in a FAIR tax system. But I also know that if you tax 20% of a paycheck of a person who needs every single penny to get by, and you tax 20% of a paycheck of a person who does not, there is a difference. I don't think that the rich should be required to work any harder. I just wish we had a system which paid people appropriately for the work they are doing. If you show up 10 minutes late to your McDonalds job, they WILL fire you. If you show up 15 minutes late everyday to your corporate job, No body notices. This isn't true in all cases, but it is definitely more of the norm.
"just because someone is rich doesn't mean that THEY are entitled to their own money" ???? oh my god !!! YES they are entitled to it!!! You certainly are NOT!!! You sound like a big baby, if someone shows up late to McDs they get fired and a CEO doesn't .... that's so silly! sounds like someone is jealous or has some class envy going on... I work very hard every day but I don't envy the Rich like some people...
I will never envy the rich. Who wants the world to hate them? I'm just trying to make the point that it really does matter where you are born. Yes, there are a small percentage of people born with a certain drive that they can get anywhere they want in life. But if people still want to buy McDonalds, people are still going to have to work there. And you cannot say that people that work in the fast-food industry are lazy. They provide a service which usually does not allow them breaks, requires them to stand all day, pays little, and does not allow you to "stand around on the job." I'm not trying to complain for them, I'm just trying to stand up for them. I just think that compensation is lopsided our work force. Personally, I do not feel entitled to anything. I have been blessed with life, and everyday I am thankful for the privileged life I have. I make $300 a week and love my life. I pay my taxes, and to the most part, I have not complained. But the Ponzi Scheme of the Financial Crisis (and it was a Ponzi Scheme) has caused me to come out of my shell a little bit. I will not stop until the Rich 1% realize that they too are simply people.
I never and will never say anyone with a job is lazy. I stand on my feet for 10 hrs a day, sometimes with NO breaks but this is the profession I choice and I love it. Every job out there is worthy of something.
I agree!! And I believe that jobs in which people stand long periods of the day should be paid more than jobs in which people get to sit down. But I am a radical who thinks education should be free :)
Why are you so angry kookla?
REALLY... you serious or trolling .... the super rich pay 70% of the tax???? right ... get real or get off here
If it weren't for the top 50% of wage earners you wouldn't have the ability to pay for your protest because that's the only ones who pay a net amount into the federal tax system...how do you rationalize that?
its about the seriously well endowed . the 1% - these entities whether an institution or an individual, public or private... the ones being targeted are those who happily go on their merry way finding loop hole after loop hole to hide their money - to evade our tax system - to push it to the vigin islands and launder it through financial institutions who we have no jurisdiction over.
i too have insight and first hand knowledge - a very well to do antique dealer who has made millions- MILLIONs of dollars but has been able to keep his tax return UNDER 60K per year... takes cash when ever he can , throws it in his drawers at home - hides it all... takes an overseas check and gets it put into his off shore bank account where hes free and able to "NOT" declare this ...
this is reality - this is what is taking place over and over and over... its time to change the way we do business in this country and bring the financial kingdom to a grinding hault. this is disgusting human behavior - people like this and corporations who behave like this ought to be brought to their knees right here and now.
If you have most of the money it means you pay more taxes. Our politicians in NYS support Corporate bonuses and the revenue these bonuses provide to the general fund. It's not a good enough reason to look the other way as to how these bonuses were achieved.
most of the protesters are ignorant to Economics, Capitalism and life ! They need to wake up and stop being hypocrats! 99% ??? what a bunch of BS !!!!
The people vs the economic elite
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99JbqxTXVYc&feature=youtube_gdata_player
well most of these stats and statements are completely wrong. If you do truely beleive this video then I hope you'll be voting OUT Obama next year. He is responsible for our 14 trillion debt as well as bailing out banks, car Co, expanding our Gov...he is a huge problem!!!!
I knew you were clueless . I am not an Obama fan by any stretch of the imagination. Your Idea of " voting out the rasca"l is extremely naive.Blaming a 30 decline in the American economy on one man is equally as ignorant. I'm at work and really don't have time to educate you. Let us start by having you look up the word Oligarchy for starters.
Not really much worse than all the other guys though. Unfortunately, One man cannot fix the system. He got wrapped up in the politics very quickly. We could blame him, or we could try to do something about our corrupt system. But really, I am not one to know all the answers...
So what do you suggest?
What does that even mean?
amen!
utesichiban,
"You guys need to get a life... and jobs" why would we bother with that when we're well on the way to taking your money. Get a clue dumbbell.
Both parties ignore you. Obama has time to attend a commemoration for someone who died over 30 years ago, but he has no time to meet with you. Wall Street executives toast champagne over your heads to mock you. So, what's next? Look to history and your founding Fathers for answers,
Capitalism isn't supposed to work for everyone. It is unrealistic to think we can live in a society where everyone has everything they need or want. We do however, live in a society where if you work hard you can have a wonderful life
Also, it is unrealistic to believe that anyone can have anything they want. It is not unrealistic to believe that people can not have what they need. Especially when we produced enough food to feed everyone in the world TWICE!
Wrong! If you work hard, you are not guaranteed anything. Most of the time, it is not what you know, but who you know...
You had me right up until the end, when you told them to study history. Thats why some of them are in the position that they're in, because they got history degrees!
Capitalism is based on exponential growth. Unfortunately, nature has already expressed that exponential growth does not exist. Sorry!
Exponential growth is in fact a big part of nature. But there are always limits to growth that must be addressed in certain ways. Destruction or death is a factor in nature that limits exponential growth and keeps things in balance. Exponential growth in business is kept in check by failures and demand shifts--in theory. As intelligent human beings we need to find ways to deal with exponential growth problems in our systems.
Maybe I chose wrongly again. What I mean is, things cannot expand without limit. There is always an asymptote
True, I should have been more careful with my words. I mean limitless growth.
and the people pay 70% of their income to the super rich