Forum Post: You are Occupying the Wrong Place
Posted 13 years ago on Oct. 11, 2011, 6:11 a.m. EST by NotAHippie2000
(4)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
You are likely reading this on some sort of smart phone or Ipad that was placed on the market by some greedy CEO. It is an evil corporation that can be thanked for the data plan that provides you the widespread reach to increase the size of your mob. So before you switch over to video to capture more footage of a fellow “peaceful” occupier that is antagonizing another cop, perhaps you can at least whisper a “thank you” to the free market system in between your “99% chants.” Capitalism is the reason these gadgets are affordable to someone who has decided to stop contributing to society and has chosen to park themselves in a neighborhood they know nothing about.
Don’t you see that you are willingly participating in the system you so despise? Demand is the reason that you hold the internet in your hand. Wall Street is just providing the supply. No one is telling you to feed their pockets and help them buy cars that you would never be able to afford. They are being rewarded for their hard work, dedication to their field, and innovation. Your dollar vote is keeping them in business.
Government cannot bail you out, nor should they. Government cannot create jobs for you either. All government can do is further regulate. This translates into placing handcuffs on the invisible hand that has resulted in the quality of life that you enjoy. I am mortified by this “revolution” because the rest of the world is watching you. They see you pointing the finger at Wall Street, while the rest of your fingers are pointing back at yourself. YOU are the ones that want more for doing less. In your mind, achieving the American Dream should mean that it is your responsibility to prop up the unproductive. Do you really think this is going to create jobs? Do you really think this will cure the dependency problem that we have among our population? Or are you exacerbating the problem by breeding more unproductively?
Capitalism equates to freedom. We are free to start-up our own businesses that can only grow if the market allows. I’m not referring to Wall Street…I am referring to YOU who is a small voice among the mass market that is free to cast your dollar vote as you see fit. What takes away this freedom? More regulation. Keep up your protests and you will find that your freedom diminishes. Regulation doesn’t just apply to the 1%....it trickles down to you as well since you will have less dollars to vote with and fewer products to vote on.
Get a message that the true 99% can back you on or just go home and join the rest of us productive Americans who appreciate their freedom.
You geniuses keep coming in here and delivering this same lecture.
"Stop protesting! Start your own business!"
Do you dumbasses think that a completely corrupt, oligarchical financial system is friendly to the small business owner or startup entrepreneur???
WE'RE FIGHTING FOR YOU, TOO, ya fucking morans.
You lose credibility calling someone a MORON and spelling it wrong. Don't fight for us, your ignorance is a major part of the problem. Read "Economics in One Lesson" by Henry Hazlitt.
"Moran" is a reference to a famous internet meme, ya moran.
Congratulations, you're an expert on "famous internet memes", but an economic illiterate. One is slightly more important than the other.
You should take an economics class. Please don't think for a minute that the rest of the country is proud of you...or will thank you one day. You aren't fighting for me....I'm not sure what you're trying to do.
I agree to the extent that it isn't really Wall St that's the problem. To put what I think you're saying in another way, we have power as a consumer in a capitalist society. We buy iPhones, grande mochas, and Kia Sorentos and that's okay. If people make money of our consumption, that's okay too.
I also agree that government regulation would probably bring more harm than good. It could have unforeseen consequences such as stifling developing businesses, who knows? However, WE can regulate their practices in a capitalist system by "voting" with our dollars.
For example, New Balance offers shoes that are made domestically. Rather than have that government regulate foreign labor/domestic labor, just "vote" with your dollars. Do you really need Nike over New Balance? Heuristically, imagine what would happen if everyone only bought New Balance only because they made their shoes locally? I think other companies would follow suit and consequently bring some middle class jobs back to America.
People complain that there's not enough middle class jobs in America, but they buy from companies that outsource all those jobs. We need to "vote" for companies that are responsible according to what we believe will be good for America even if that means it's a little bit more expensive. We're worth it!
You're too smart for this forum. Please leave before the dumb rubs off on you. lol
Thank you for your contribution to the discussion and for clarifying my points. There are more productive things to protest about...and casting votes to keep jobs in this country is a noble method. Corporations know that consumers drive the demand. We are not brainwashed sheep that fall victim to marketing ploys. I give Americans much more credit and believe that they can decide for themselves what to buy and why.
I love you man. You remind me of my nephew. You got a good soul - I don't know you, but I can tell. Please respect me when I tell you: Who gives a fuck about your shoes. There is no "consumer power". What you pay for stuff is what the corps know they can get out of you. If you are under 25 (and I am guessing you are) than you have been programmed since birth to shop and buy exactly what you are wearing right now. It is all affectation and it is not real. Who do you image is cobbling those NB shoes in South Texas. Not Americans. The New Balance, made in America, is marketing horseshit. Trust me I was in the meeting when we made up the fantasy.
Also, slow down when you talk about the 'middle class'. If you meet an middle class American clap your hands. If you think you might be middle class you are probably low. This QWS is a class war, a revolution. Put on you best Chinese shoes and stand up with us. Please do not try to spend your way to help the cause.
...at least that is what I would have said to Spenser, my nephew. 21. He hit a tree.
Ok we will protest nude and write on tree bark with rocks. Everyone get ready!......
..... Ok really dont do that. Why not use these tools? Would you pick up a dead enemies gun and shoot an enemy that was shooting at you or would you pick up a rock?
Besides do you think CEOs and board officers make that stuff? Not likely, its a safe bet 99% of the time its going to be someone in R&D that makes less than $100k a year. Who produces the goods? Not the CEO, not the rich. They may operate the company but they couldnt run most if any of the machines used in production. 99% of the production process is done by the bottom 99% of the companies employees....wait for it wait for it......
Thats odd because that is exactly how it is when you walk out of the company into the parking lot. 99% of America makes the country function. In both cases the 1% just reap the profits off the work of the 99% and never give anything back. America is ran just like a corporation.
Some companies are pretty decent to work for. Like Google comes to mind. They seem to treat their employees really well from what i can tell. But they are the exception not the rule.
Also you are confusing capitalism with democracy. They are not the same thing. China is a capitalistic country. Didnt know that did you? They made it work with communism.
You speak of freedom as if you have any. You do not know what freedom is. You think you are free because you can go to the store when you want? Because you can go to the bathroom when you want? The corporations are so intertwined in your life you have only limited freedom. In fact you dont have much more freedom than in China. Look at the police stopping protest and arresting and beating people. Thats not freedom of speech and right to assemble peacefully. They are have so many laws to govern how you can protest you have to ask permission from the govt to protest the govt. That is NOT in the constitution. The fathers did not put in their a bunch of conditions to protesting and assembly. ONLY that it must be done peacefully to be legal.
The media controls you. The media is heavily biased and censors. They limit the flow of information. They have even become so greedy that you watch more commercials now than you do programming. I can watch news pretty much from 5 AM to midnight.... over the air. That is ridiculous.
Get to the truth, learn who we really are and what we really are protesting.
Sorry, I couldn't resist, this just seemed so appropriate to this comment...
----- Pink Floyd, Wish You Were Here -----
So, so you think you can tell
Heaven from Hell,
Blue skies from pain.
Can you tell a green field
From a cold steel rail?
A smile from a veil?
Do you think you can tell?
And did they get you to trade
Your heroes for ghosts?
Hot ashes for trees?
Hot air for a cool breeze?
Cold comfort for change?
And did you exchange
A walk-on part in the war
For a lead role in a cage?
How I wish, how I wish you were here.
We're just two lost souls
Swimming in a fish bowl,
Year after year,
Running over the same old ground.
What have we found?
The same old fears.
Wish you were here.
Capitalism does not really equate to freedom. It is certainly more free than some other models. But so long as Capitalism also enables the erection of artificial barriers to entry (for ex: monopolistic practices), allows market manipulation (for ex: risk displacement), and entrenches social prejudices (for ex: rational racism), it is not synonymous with its ideals.
Notahippie - read this:
http://occupywallst.org/forum/to-all-the-people-who-are-against-this-movement/
Thank you for posting the link jphoenix.
The freedom for big industry to pollute is a "handcuff"?
H.R. 2401 - Rep. John Sullivan (R-Okla.) supported by Eric Cantor:
" Blocking Life-saving Clean-up of Toxic Pollution As amended in Full Committee, H.R. 2401 blocks two critical Clean Air Act standards for power plants: the Mercury and Air Toxics standards, which limit mercury and other toxic air pollution, and the Cross-State Air Pollution Rule, which curbs smog and soot pollution that crosses state lines. Here’s how: First, the bill forbids the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) from re-issuing the Cross-State Air Pollution Rule for a minimum of 19 months, and any Mercury and Air Toxics standards for a minimum of 15 months. But the amendment does not stop there. It also eliminates any actual deadline for EPA to re-issue standards, repealing current law. Thus, the bill could shelve these life-saving standards indefinitely. " http://docs.nrdc.org/air/files/air_11091902a.pdf
"Government cannot bail you out, nor should they." - unless you are a massive bank that caused the problems, sure then you can be bailed out - hell even give yourself a bonus from the bailout.
"We are free to start-up our own businesses that can only grow if the market allows" - you are free...if the market lets you be free!? Just what brand of freedom is that?
"What takes away this freedom? More regulation." deregulation is the very thing that has stopped the market letting you attain freedom - the deregulated market is rigged. It is neither fair nor free because the people at the top control it. The simple fact is that you either have a market regulated by elected representatives or a market regulated by the most wealthy - but please don't have the naive assumption that it is ever unregulated.
All that aside my freedom is an inalienable right, not a gift of, or a restriction from, the market.
"you are free...if the market lets you be free!? Just what brand of freedom is that?" - It's a simple concept. You are free to risk your money as an entrepreneur. If you fail, it means that you didn't get enough dollar votes and obtain enough market share. You are then free to try again until you hopefully get it right.
"The simple fact is that you either have a market regulated by elected representatives or a market regulated by the most wealthy" - Do you seriously think that elected officials can do a better job at this? You agree with me that the government should not provide bailouts to anyone...yet you disagree with me that they should also stop intervening with our financial system (in the form of regulation) and let things run its natural course. Why not let the wealthy decide what they do with their earnings? Why not leave things up to the consumer to regulate? If you disagree with a corp....spend your money elsewhere. Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid don't know what's best for you...nor your business...nor the free market economy.
"...If you fail, it means that you didn't get enough dollar votes and obtain enough market share" - or it means you get bailed out by the tax payer if you are a bank...so..just how exactly is that being allowed to fail?
"Do you seriously think that elected officials can do a better job at this? " - I don't believe anyone could do a worse one. If they were not in the pay of corporations and actually served the people then, yes - I think they would do a much better job.
You miss the point completely - what on gods green earth is natural about corporations lobbying government, avoiding tax, bank-rolling wars, etc? How is that more 'natural course' than elected representatives deciding - your implication that corporatism is natural is rather distasteful and naive to say the least.
I do believe that government should not provide bailouts to anyone - but not that they shouldn't regulate - indeed if they had regulation we probably wouldn't be in the mess we are. Leaving things up to the wealthy is the worst idea possible - because that is what has caused the mess.
"If you disagree with a corp....spend your money elsewhere" - the implication is that I know what's best for me - but I don't because I don't have all the facts. I don't know which corporations are avoiding tax, I don't know which are holding companies for other companies I might not like. Your simplistic idea of the 'dollar vote' is just that - simplistic - it does not address the need to regulate and control large, nefarious corporations.
I am reading this in the screen of a computer mostly ingeniously made, using an internet connection, that leaves roughly 2 mge of CO2 per hour of usage in a country having 2nd largest population in the world struggling to feed half of its population that do not have one decent meal a day and I won't say 'thank you' to the free market system just because it leaves absurd number of choices of goods in departmental stores.
I do not know about the place, but I am sure as hell its about right time.
The version of Capitalism you are talking so high of, is sterile. Don't tell me creating a non-existing demand like bottled water and making it a billion dollar industry is a feat of innovation. It's a cheat. I would like to see innovation that makes cell phones and ipads without mining raw materials from poorest of countries that live hand to mouth. Get the resources from moon, please.
The version of Capitalism you are talking so high of, determines every want, highjacks life's simple pleasures and makes one a slave. I do not want to spend money that I have not earned, on goods that I likely don't need for conveniences that I don't aspire for. The version of Capitalism you are talking so high of pushes me to do that.
I do not count in either 99% or 1% but since this is shared globally and international solidarity is sought, I must not take any rubbish in the name of productivity and freedom.
Thieves, robbers and pirates work hard too. I don't praise them.