Forum Post: Yes – The fellow protestor standing in front of you & behind you is getting paid; And you are NOT!
Posted 13 years ago on Nov. 4, 2011, 11:23 a.m. EST by TheREAL99
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According to Jonathan Westin, New York Communities for Change organizing director, when talking to his employees (staff): “ … your job is to fight for economic and social justice. We just send you to protest.’
“Staff said, ‘Yes, you pay us to carry signs.’ Then Jonathan says, ‘That’s your job.’
Staff are instructed to answer if asked: “if people bring up the article, we’re supposed to say the source and all the stuff in there came from a disgruntled ex-employee who’s not working with us anymore.”
So remember while you are out shivering in the cold, spending your own money, the people around you are laughing & getting PAID.
Yea – I know, Fox News. The PAID people are counting on your knee-jerk reaction to Fox to keep you stupid.
Your Choice.
I don't care. Organizations have a right to sponsor or not sponsor us as they choose. If there are enough of them that they can unilaterally set policy and ignore us, then we have a problem. However, the 90% consensus provision prevents that from happening.
It bothers me when I spend my money/time & get paid ZERO while others around me are being paid a living wage for doing the same but pretending not.
Obviously they should make it clear if they are being compensated, but when I agree with a movement's views and direction I'll stand with it for free even if I'm the only one doing so. Of course, if I am the only one doing so I'll politely make inquiries as to the providers and scope of compensation, but if I can't get it I won't throw up my hands and leave either.
THIS is what bothers me:
Sounds like Big Brother.
"Now there’s no texting in the office. They tell us to take our phone calls out into the waiting room where there’s an intercom, and then they turn it to hear our conversations. They’re installing new cameras and speakers around the building so they can hear everything.
“It’s almost like working at Fort Knox.” (Or the novel 1984.)
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/11/03/acorn-officials-scramble-firing-workers-and-shredding-documents-after-exposed/#ixzz1clRLbYuI
Marxism requires Big Brother. No other way to keep the people in line in the "Workers' Paradise".
The ugly truth. America's wealth is STILL being concentrated. When the rich get too rich, the poor get poorer. These latest figures prove it. AGAIN.
According to the Social Security Administration, 50 percent of U.S. workers made less than $26,364 in 2010. In addition, those making less than $200,000, or 99 percent of Americans, saw their earnings fall by $4.5 billion collectively. The sobering numbers were a far cry from what was going on for the richest one percent of Americans.
The incomes of the top one percent of the wage scale in the U.S. rose in 2010; and their collective wage earnings jumped by $120 billion. In addition, those earning at least $1 million a year in wages, which is roughly 93,000 Americans, reported payroll income jumped 22 percent from 2009. Overall, the economy has shed 5.2 million jobs since the start of the Great Recession in 2007. It’s the worst economic downturn since the Great Depression in the 1930’s.
Another word about the first Great Depression. It really was a perfect storm. Caused almost entirely by greed. First, there was unprecedented economic growth. There was a massive building spree. There was a growing sense of optimism and materialism. There was a growing obsession for celebrities. The American people became spoiled, foolish, naive, brainwashed, and love-sick. They were bombarded with ads for one product or service after another. Encouraged to spend all of their money as if it were going out of style. Obscene profits were hoarded at the top. In 1928, the rich were already way ahead. Still, they were given huge tax breaks. All of this represented a MASSIVE transfer of wealth from poor to rich. Executives, entrepreneurs, developers, celebrities, and share holders. By 1929, America's wealthiest 1 percent had accumulated around 40% of all United States wealth. The upper class held around 30%. The middle and lower classes were left to share the rest. When the majority finally ran low on money to spend, profits declined and the stock market crashed.
Of course, the rich threw a fit and started cutting jobs. They would stop at nothing to maintain their disgusting profit margins and ill-gotten obscene levels of wealth as long as possible. The small business owners did what they felt necessary to survive. They cut more jobs. The losses were felt primarily by the little guy. This created a domino effect. The middle class shrunk drastically and the lower class expanded. With less wealth in reserve and active circulation, banks failed by the hundreds. More jobs were cut. Unemployment reached 25% in 1933. The worst year of the Great Depression. Those who were employed had to settle for much lower wages. Millions went cold and hungry. The recovery involved a massive infusion of new currency, a World War, and higher taxes on the rich. With so many men in the service, so many women on the production line, and those higher taxes to help pay for it, the lions share of United States wealth was gradually transfered back to the middle class. This redistribution of wealth continued until the mid seventies. This was the recovery. A massive redistribution of wealth. Then it began to concentrate all over again. Here we are 35 years later. The richest one percent now own well over 40 percent of all US wealth. The lower 90 percent own less than 10 percent of all US wealth. This is true even after taxes, welfare, financial aid, and charity. It is the underlying cause. No redistribution. No recovery.
The government won't step in and do what's necessary. Not this time. It's up to us. Support small business more and big business less. Support the little guy more and the big guy less. It's tricky but not impossible. No redistribution. No recovery.
Those of you who agree on these major issues are welcome to summarize this post, copy it, link to it, save it, show a friend, or spread the word in any fashion. Most major cities have daily call-in talk radio shows. You can reach thousands of people at once. They should know the ugly truth. Be sure to quote the figures which prove that America's wealth is still being concentrated. I don't care who takes the credit. We are up against a tiny but very powerful minority who have more influence on the masses than any other group in history. They have the means to reach millions at once with outrageous political and commercial propaganda. Those of us who speak the ugly truth must work incredibly hard just to be heard.
the sources said. a source said. A source said The source said staffers at the meeting contested Westin’s denial: A source said A source said A source said A source said A source said who are the sources?
ACORN derangement syndrome
You are so right !!!! I am so fooled when the ACORN Nuts change their name every few months upon rediscovery.
We stand watching the great American empire decline while the wealthy fight anyone trying to save her. This is how empires fall - greed.
Empires can fall from the actions of a GREEDY GOVERNMENT, not from the greed of citizens greedily making their tomorrow better than today:
Most socialists/communists/statists/marxists/democrats are clueless about how Capitalism has created such wealth that the Poor in the Capitalist West have running hot & cold clean water, toilets with indoor plumbing, nutritious delicious food from around the world inexpensively available in massive quantities in or out of season within miles of their home 24/7 365. These Capitalism created Riches were luxuries unavailable to the richest of kings only 250 years ago & have come about, not because of some socialist/communist/statist/marxist/democrat do-gooder, but because of simple human GREED: Entrepreneurs thought they might get rich inventing, manufacturing, selling, installing, & maintaining every one of these luxuries. Over time, Entrepreneurs, getting rich, have brought down the price so now even the poorest in Capitalist countries have each of these luxuries in abundance.
You're confusing honest work with greed. I like capitalism - getting paid for an honest day's work. A capitalist becomes greedy when he buys undo favors from public servants to increase his profits at the expense of everyone else. Then capitalism has made our republic into a plutocracy, which is not what I signed up for.
Yes, greed is on both sides, when corporations try to lead government. America will stabilize if we can get money out of politics. http://www.getmoneyout.com/
"buys undo favors from public servants to increase his profits at the expense of everyone else" the very definition of crony capitalism & should be severely punished.
Much better to make it impossible by limiting the power of government, therefore its ability to grant cronies favors.
Reducing government has its own down side though. With a smaller government comes less regulation and enforcement of the rules. The result would allow these companies to simply find new more creative ways to kill off the American dream.
A stronger government with the proper laws in place on things like campaign contributions lobbyists would be a better solution as it would increase enforcement of the rules allow for stronger business regulations. It would however require that we the people stop being so lazy and be involved in our government but i am sure anyone with OWS already is willing to do that.
No company can put you in jail, take money you did not contract to give them - All things the out-of-control government does today.
The American dream is not killed by corporations; it is killed by Big Government.
Forget about the campaign contributions red herring. The evil Republicans spent $100s Million's to Jerry Brown's $10s Millions. Californians chose Jerry.
Get rid of Govt. power to give special deals is the best solution.
Then who is left to stand between the people and big business?
Just because our government doesn't represent us now. Does not mean we can not make the changes to it needed to make it represent us, and hold back big business. Like it should have been all along. Get rid of government and regulations it brings to the table and you are playing right into the hands of big business every time.
We should be fighting the current government for near total reform if not outright replacement with a government that supports the people. However we live in a day and age when a congressman can tell an oil CEO "You have to pay back the American people for milking them billions of dollars" and the CEO has the power to look right back at that congressman on national TV and say "no". That tells me right there that our government has already been so weakened that people need to stop with this government is bad shit.
1.) get the money out of government. 2.) limit the power government has to make laws governing individuals while strengthening their power to regulate and control organizations.
We the people ALLOWED the current situation through our laziness, and being unwilling to truly understand what would happen when Reagan started to deregulate.
"Then who is left to stand between the people and big business?'
Dollars in your pocket.
Don't like what a business does: Stop buying there product. Example: NetFlix tried to screw its customers by charging more. The customers canceled their memberships. In DAYS NetFlix change their policy. No Government in the real world will ever be this responsive to their constituents.
"hold back big business" is a fools dream. If you give the govt. power over you there is little chance you are going to have the money that Big Business has to buy that power.
Only CEOs given monopolies by Big Government can extract above market prices. Although the oil business is HIGHLY REGULATED it is still not a monopoly. Hi Oil prices are a function of supply & demand, not the dictate of some CEO.
You voters that demand a lot of restrictions on Oil supply through outrageous, useless regulation & are then surprised by the high price of oil should kick yourselves repeatedly in the ass for being so stupid.
Supply & demand & its affect on price is very simple to understand. Please try to learn.
That has to be the biggest cop out answer i have ever seen. If i don't like what a company is doing for example Wal-Mart and i stop shopping there guess what there are 10,000 other people still shopping there. So my 20$ a week means NOTHING. The only reason Netflix got hit so hard was because it dealt with their customers pocket book. If the issues instead was they were using some new technology that gave off massive radiation around there warehouse. It would have taken months if not years for people to respond in large enough numbers to get them to stop.
The bottom line is any time a company has to make a choice between us and their own pocket book the pocket book always has and always will be god. There will not now not ever be a case where a large cooperation with investors is going to tell their investors "i am sorry we don't have to pay such a high wage to our employees. In fact we could get away with paying them next to nothing but we wont because its the right thing to do to pay them a fair wage. So this quarter your all taking a smaller amount home"
As for your argument about the oil company's the video i was referencing was 2009 congressional hearing in which congress found that several oil company's had raised prices based on speculation instead of fact, and as a result gas prices soared higher than they had ever been in US history. The end result the oil company's brought in record profits of several 100% of normal. Well beyond what regulations are supposed to allow. The oil CEO as far as i have heard has had no action taken against him and was allowed to simply walk away without returning any of those ill gotten gains.
Lastly you stated "If you give the govt. power over you there is little chance you are going to have the money that Big Business has to buy that power."
1.) get the money out of government. 2.) LIMIT THE POWER GOVERNMENT HAS TO MAKE LAWS GOVERNING INDIVIDUALS while strengthening their power to regulate and control organizations.
If you had actually read and understood that then you would realize that what i am talking about is taking away the ability organizations have to contribute, and "buy" our government. The 2nd part of that is to limit the governments ability to create laws that govern individuals like you or i giving the greatest amount of personal freedom to the people while INCREASING there power to stand as protector against big business. It then doesn't matter how big the government gets because they are focused exactly where they will do the people the most good.
LazerusShade,
The reason you & I differ so much is our ideologies are in direct conflict:
I feel implicit in your argument is the belief that most everyone is not as smart as you & we are fooled like idiots by Big Business $$$ to vote against our interests.
I am much less arrogant & believe in free speech for everyone & their groups. All your restrictions are incompatible with my ideology of personal freedom & restrictions on coercion.
The last statement "It then doesn't matter how big the government gets because they are focused exactly where they will do the people the most good."
In the real world I know the government to be largely incompetent, wasteful, & to have a primary focus of self aggrandizement & self perpetuation; all incompatible with your assumption bureaucracies will be "ocused exactly where they will do the people the most good."
When I volunteered for Obama in 2008, I was making phone calls alongside a lot of people with temporary jobs for the campaign pulling in a salary. Everyone supporting a campaign does it. And while I had a few high hopes for what Obama would bring, I also had few illusions: the point is, when the middle class is being obliterated, when politicians want to redefine "torture", when useless wars are started for lies, when the basic functioning of the government threatens to fall apart into bizarre constitutional crises, when the next Franco is at the door, what do you do? Do you support a muddled and corrupt government against such invaders, or do you stand back and watch the country fall under the dominion of evil?
I have learned the solution to corrupt government is NOT even bigger government (run by allegedly "the right people") - no such thing exists.
The solution, & it always works, is LESS government power (less goodies to be handed out by the corrupt), LESS Taxes (More MONEY in the hands of the people that earned it).
The greedy, envious, & jealousy filled @ OWS will cry "but the rich will get richer". As long as you & I get richer, I don't care. One thing is for SURE: Making the rich poorer does NOT make you or I or anyone richer.
History does not bear out your statement. As Michael Moore covered in "Capitalism: A Love Story", income tax rates used to go up to 90%, and the middle class thrived. With income tax rates lower than ever, and inheritance tax as low as 0%, the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. It's not rocket science.
Michael Moore's careful misrepresentation of the facts can try to prove that if the government just taxes the working people enough we will all be richer.
That sounds crazy because it is crazy.
Smart people @ BofA/GM/Chrysler/GE/Solyndra/etc. are always going to have the government give them favors. The solution is a government that does NOT have the power to give favors.
You are very right: It's not rocket science.
Who's talking about taxing the working people? Yeah, the Republicans want you to pay more FICA tax (capped at $120,000) for less Social Security, and they want to tax your employer health care contributions. But Michael Moore's kind of people are talking about taxing multimillionaires and billionaires. That's not "the working people", but people who take in free money from investments.
multimillionaires and billionaires is a measure of WEALTH not INCOME.There is NO wealth tax.
According to the IRS the top 25% income earners pay 85% of the Federal Taxes. http://www.american.com/archive/2007/november-december-magazine-contents/guess-who-really-pays-the-taxes.
One thing is for SURE: Making the rich poorer does NOT make you or I or anyone richer. Since you don't believe me please explain your plan to get money from any of the following into your pocket:
1 Yoko Ono Net Worth – $500 million
2 Russell Simmons Net Worth – $325 million
3 Roseanne Barr Net Worth – $80 million
Fat Chance !!
Smaller Government, Lower taxes for everyone leads to MORE jobs, MORE money in your, mine & everyone else's pocket.
You have to give up your greed, envy, jealousy & failed Marxist ideology before you can learn how to help yourself, me & everyone else.
I don't know how to make it any more simple.
And yet for the last 30 years we have decreased regulations and taxes and the middle class has shrunk at twice the rate. So how does your theory of free market small government stand against that fact? History has PROVEN that as a country our middle class has grown strongest under the strongest regulations. The last time we had anything close to a free market was during the late 1800's to early 1900's when the unions first had to form to fight for even the most basic rights that we take for granted today.
You want things to work then you push for regulations that force these company's into doing whats best for everybody not just the bottom line. Because lets face it when you let them run free the bottom line always has and always will come first.
How to get it into my pocket? May I suggest http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Securities_turnover_excise_tax . Stabilize the markets from computer price swings, collect money from people who are making money investing, perhaps even encourage a slightly longer-term perspective in business management.
I should note that I definitely do not support Marxism. I believe we need to put the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness first. The economic rules of the game we come up with should not be fundamentalist capitalist, nor fundamentalist communist for that matter, but should ensure that people have the right to live, the right to be free, and the right to work hard and get ahead in life. A right to property is a means to accomplishing this goal, not a sacred religious dogma.
The world is full of perpetual motion machine ideas to fleece the pubic for the "greater good", especially those of John Maynard Keynes.
A right to property is not a means, it is a fundamental principle of Capitalism & fundamentally opposed by Marxism.These isms are not morally equivalent.
Marxism has failed at horrific human cost every time it has been tried. Only by deceit & subterfuge can Marxists hope to fool enough of the gullible to seize power & impose their hideous, enslaving Marxism on the rest of us.
160+ years after Marx there is no need for further debate. The evidence is today startlingly clear, unambiguous, & damning. The people have chosen:
People have to be forced at Gun Point & worse TO STAY IN Marxist countries.
People are willing to try to surmount fatal dangers to MOVE INTO Capitalist countries.
There is NOTHING compassionate about Marxism or shooting people trying to escape Marxist jails.
If property is a fixed, immutable, morally defined fundamental principle of capitalism, then riddle me this: how come this decade patents on business models are property, when they never were before? How have human genes and transgenic organisms and fetal stem cell lines become property? How is the right to burn coal and emit carbon suddenly becoming property? How are software algorithms now property when "ideas" never were before? How is the Green River, the major tributary of the Colorado River suddenly going to become property, pumped away and sold by a corporation? This has been going on since the fencing of the open range, since the sell-off of the right to broadcast a radio signal. The definition of property changes, but it's like the old Soviet ratchet - always more, never less. And with each redefinition, a poor child is born with fewer rights and more things she has to pay for to have the rights that were taken for granted by previous generations.
This "99 Percent" movement is 100% Astroturf.
100% maybe too strong. My guess: about 20% astroturf, 40% real grass roots, 20% union thugs, 20% Pot
Next demenstration make sure the guys getting paid are up front, because they probably have health insurance to!
Cr*p !!!
I forgot about that.
Now I am really mad.
People are getting paid to come here and then they go and rest in hotel or house. You kids are duped, good your parents are supporting you. Wasting your life try to live like homeless but with all the electronic devised paid by parents, food donated by people.
Every body who is getting paid should be declared otherwise it is corruption.
Looks like the OWS campers can enjoy their STDs and their pneumonia while the rest get paid and then retire for the day in the comfort of their home.
Looks like the DONATION money is being well spent - ON THE BACKS OF THE LESS CORRUPT MEMBERS OF OWS.
Suckers