Forum Post: Would it be accurate to say the majority of OWS supporters do not support either REPS or DEMS?
Posted 13 years ago on Oct. 16, 2011, 12:16 p.m. EST by jameswestonmusic
(222)
from Los Angeles, CA
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
I feel as though both parties have been corrupted by the unethical money making machine that is in place.
Don't get me wrong, money making is fine. Capitalism at it's core is the way to go. The problem is, when the laws benefit the wealthy and take opportunity from the less endowed, then there is a problem.
Just my take... it was FDR's as well. Balance is key to the thriving economic growth this country needs to heal this divide.
actually i support the dem view and i am a liberal. i am also in support of my neighbor having a say. i am also in favor of public officials that can bring together the goals of myself and my neighbor; find compromise on those issues to guide the country toward an acceptable outcome for myself and my neighbor.
as long as you have your neighbor in your favor, then i think you're right on. All your neighbors. Me included:)
word!
OWS is non-partisan.
OWS supporters want economic fairness. Any politicians listening?
The Democrats and the republicans have both let us down and pushed the rich up. Look out side of this country and you will see people watching curiously at our two party system.
I do not feel represented by either of those parties. I did vote for Obama, but for the most party I find very few politicians that inspire my vote.
People are living a lie when they ignore the vast diversity of political ideology in this country. Communists, Libertarians, Socialists, Anarchists, even the Green Party! There are so many of us that don't fall in to the political conversation on the news it's ridiculous!
Maybe we don't want to be communist in this country but to exclude them from the conversation and the democratic process is self denial and unconstitutional!
and i am a capitalist at the heart of it.
way to point that out, i agree. No one shall be pushed from the table, everyone has a voice. and you choose to disagree. that is your only recourse, not to silence those you disagree with.
Yes. My support of one party over the other was a choice of the best of the two evils
I would vote for somebody in either party if it was somebody that had a brain and wasn't beholding to the corporations.
I wont start holding by breath anytime soon
Force passing of Obama jobs bill. It ain't about Obama its about your mamma. Elect him as a tactic but have your own strategy. Reject the formal freedom offered by existing power axis. Experience actual freedom undermining those coordinates.
Think the order of the day really is "Campaign finance reform"
That will go a long way in the change, but I want to take a step further and hit the term limits, and also the general pay the politicians get. They need to get paid less than a teacher or family practice doctor. That way, the greedy flee the ship.
Not to mention ending the pension they get.
I say bring the ALL home, and get them the help they need, both monetarily and mentally. They deserve it!
Wait what? Bring the politicians home?
I meant the servicemen and women of the Armed Forces. but I like that too, send all the politicians home, get out of DC and go home.
Agreed
I can only speak for myself when I answer yes...The Repukes are the more outwardly corporatist of the two parties, but the Democan'ts cater to corporate interests as well. BUT they are both the result of the corrupting power of money in our politics.
Getting money out=less corruption.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIcqb9hHQ3E
Like he said, right now, my only choice is between "the party that's going to burn the place to the ground" (Republicans) and "the party that's less destructive" (Democrats).
My friends say I'm liberal. I disagree.
What's conservative about demanding that we use as much oil as possible? What's liberal about wanting to conserve it?
What's conservative about handing out billions of taxpayer dollars to profitable companies that are creating the problems we're dealing with? What's liberal about wanting to conserve tax payer dollars for people and causes that need them?
What's conservative about the unrestrained destruction of our environment in the pursuit of profits? What's liberal about trying to conserve it?
I say the world's upside down. We live in an age where the policies of liberals are more in keeping with the words of Jesus than those of the "god fearing" "Christian" conservatives are.
Republican Debate - "Let him die" - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PepQF7G-It0
Matthew 25:
41Then the king will say to those on his left, "Get away from me! You are under God's curse. Go into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels! 42I was hungry, but you did not give me anything to eat, and I was thirsty, but you did not give me anything to drink. 43I was a stranger, but you did not welcome me, and I was naked, but you did not give me any clothes to wear. I was sick and in jail, but you did not take care of me."
44Then the people will ask, "Lord, when did we fail to help you when you were hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in jail?"
45The king will say to them, "Whenever you failed to help any of my people, no matter how unimportant they seemed, you failed to do it for me."
46Then Jesus said, "Those people will be punished forever. But the ones who pleased God will have eternal life."
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+25&version=CEV
I say "GIVE ME A REAL CHOICE" and that's what I'll choose.
As of late I don't support any of them. Which is going to make for a very interesting time at the voting booth next year.
Well, I think the movement is a cross section of the US population,
Dem, GOP
Black/ White
Male/ Female
Young/ Younger
This is exactly what the parties fear most. A movement that can bring together people from all walks of life. It would have happened in the late 1800's but the parties sowed seeds of racism and the Populist party fell apart.
It ain't going down that way this time!!
YEAH Cicero. a cross section of the people. all of them. I think, even if someone doesn't want to dive right in and Occupy, they can at least have a serious discussion. The greedy don't want us to talk. They spent years trying to make us afraid and lethargic.
Agreed its better for them if we are all ignorant,
but I think there is an Awakening to the truth happening in America!
Now, to show a sense of humor, I will be comment 69 sweet
No i dont support any party. They're both from the same batch. The only one i support is Ron Paul because he understands whats happening with the economy while every one else is either retarded or playing dumb.
I am not on Wall Street though wished I had the funds to be. That being said I do agree both parties are run by the same small group of people. However I am also a Ron Paul supporter.
I like Ron Paul, his Environmental ideas are desperately lacking though. I'd personally go Green Party before that. god I love what is happening right now. I can smell the change in the air, or is that the dung from a police horse.
I would like to get behind Ron Paul but he will rape the military so I can't support that.
no.
the majority of ows protesters with previous political experience campaigned and voted for obama.
during the last eighteen months they were the ones who argued that political discontent in the obama era was unjustifiable and could only be explained by deep-seated psychosis related to racism, derangement and violence.
next spring they will be walking the precincts for obama.
thanks Jummy ---- 2 things -
Please keep in mind, I am not trying to belittle your personal right to your own opinions, I am only voicing my displeasure in this puppet show we call the federal government.
Tell you what, if he takes his MILLIONS of "campaign donations" and invests that money back into the economy, I might rethink it. Doubt that would happen though, he would piss off quite a few people expecting their retaliatory back scratch.
It's making sweeping generalizations that serve to separate rather than unite. Thinking in terms of party is too narrow. Corporations are global and try to buy whoever to keep the balance of power in their favor.
grandmanancy - I feel united in the conversation, and I think many more are too. We have been out of practice, the voodoo conversation at dinner tables across the US. Gotta talk about the 2 parties before we can add to those parties. I agree about the Corps. Dirty deeds are not done dirt cheap, the are done to the highest bidder and friend of the state. Right, Halliburton?
The politicians/White House/Congress are the only real places to protest as it is your money they use against you - they deregulated Wall Street, bailed them out and then as a kick in your ass, also give them tax breaks (as if they don't have enough of your money) and fund win-less wars. Only the government can do that - nobody else.
sorry, disagree is a negative word. not the best choice. More like, I can't occupy DC
I disagree. I think it is very REAL to protest the Government in every town and state. Although, most Americans don't get to see it on FOX, CNN, MSNBC, the government surely is watching. They hope it is a flash in the pan, but it surely isn't.
I agree, standing on the white house lawn would be ideal, I live in Los Angeles, and that is out of the question for me (as of yet).
I support this. It was the politicians that sold us into debt slavery to Wall Street anyway.
jameswestonmusic, you've got it right, as far as I'm concerned. Well said. This needs to be said more to drown out the troll machines on this forum.
That would be accurate
ahhh.. 007 is back.. whats up
lol. Looking for clues at the scene of the crime.
yes! corruption is corruption. see my recent post: http://occupywallst.org/forum/what-is-the-point/
there are a lot of extreme views represented at the protests. that's ok with me. the problem is that those extremes are then used in the media to misinform the public and distort the message. but the true movement rejects divisive partisnship.
All politicians, and bankers need to be imprisoned!
no, not all need imprisonment. the occupations in themselves aren't a crime. Only the people at the top who made the decisions need to be held accountable.
Guilty...until..proven innocent...thats the way ...the system works for poor people and minorities! Equality for all...put their ass in jail for RICO
Democratic Equality - Religious Equality - Equality of Human Rights - Sexual Equality - Equality in Capitalism. Equal = we all are.
Lay down your personal gavels, America. Reserve judgement for yourself. Unite for Freedom from Tyranny and Oppression. You know, the whole Constitution, and Declaration of Independence thing.
Yes! Very accurate, in my opinion.
You have your chance with Ralph Nader as the third party man - he's got a proven track record of standing up for American consumers as well as the experience fighting big companies ... something that Obama is sorely lacking, ditto the Republicans. Obama is a snake who is withholding his opinion as to whether he’s for or against this movement - he’s waiting to see if anyone in the movement will figure out that it’s the politicians who enabled Wall Street to unlimited risk taking by deregulation, easy tax breaks for the wealthy and bailouts - then the protesters will go after him - so he doesn’t want to back them now if they challenge him later - he’s biding his time til he knows which way the wind blows. In terms of Ralph Nader, I'm afraid if he got too popular, the Dems would assassinate, however he is your only alternative.
I voted for Nader once. One of the 2%:) wishful thinking then, possible now? who knows.
I can't speak for everyone, but I used to be hardcore left democrat. After being with this movement and marching with them, I'm more center, independent and undecided than I've ever been.
So, there's anecdotal evidence for you, grain of salt and all that.
change is good. it doesn't have to be "once a dem, always a dem"
and by wealthy i mean, the GIANTS that were too big to fail, and the companies like Monsanto that feel like they can own life, and in turn, own YOU and I
Trying to bring both sides together:
http://www.teaoccupyunited.com
uh oh.. i just ran across this.. refute it if you like. http://koch-industries-organized-crime.blogspot.com/2011/10/google-koch-industries-tea-party.html
Trust me I've seen that a zillion times lol both sides have corruption OWS has Soros and TP has Koch ....I SAY REMOVE THEM ALL!!
I just searched the connection between Soros and OWS. Not a fact to be found, just opinions, and Rush Limbaugh. Not sure if I can trust that. I'll dig further, but, I don't really believe what Reuters has to say on the matter.
Adbusters who started this have direct funding from Soros:
"Soros and the protesters deny any connection. But Reuters did find indirect financial links between Soros and Adbusters, an anti-capitalist group in Canada which started the protests with an inventive marketing campaign aimed at sparking an Arab Spring type uprising against Wall Street. Moreover, Soros and the protesters share some ideological ground."
expand on the indirect link. thanks for the conversation as well. very beneficial for all.
Indirect just means he is passing money through Adbusters who then pass it through OWS or they Adbusters use it for OWS related things. This make sense?
I have to reply up here. Doesn't discredit it just confirms it that both sides are bought. The OWS disclosures are there they show Adbusters contributions this is true. All I'm saying is both sides are bought and this needs to be changed IMHO.
I can't connect it. Conspiracy or true? Who knows. If Soros IS funding the movement, does that discredit it to you. Meaning, would you be ANTI Occupy because of that "indirect" link that all sides discredit? Also, OWS has a disclosure of funds for the movement that have been donated on this site. It isn't much, compared to the amount of worldwide support it has received, nothing close to a White House Fundraiser.
HAHA wow. so Reuters also had another article called, Soros - not a funder of OWS... guess what, I clicked that link and there wasn't a page anymore. Tell tale sign of somebody getting fired, or tracks being covered. Whoopsie daisy
Ok, I see what you're getting at. The main difference I see so far between the two is that OWS is far more grass roots than the TP. OWS has NO help spreading the message, heck, mainstream media thinks it is a yawn. The TP were the darlings of media, the "real America", remember. OWS is growing because a bunch of people are searching with the help of the internet, to find like minded people, and stand up.
1) the initial ows protesters were litterally paid for their efforts by the working families party, a wade rathke project which operates by extracting dues from its members ... http://moelane.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/WFP.jpg
2) media: during the entire first eight months of the tea party movement, the news divisions of abc, cbs and nbc did 13 stories on the tea party. so far, in the initial ten days of this ows protest movement, the same three major networks have done 33 stories on the ows protests, not including briefs and mentions. that’s a quantitative point: if we assume all other things to be equal, we can say affirmatively that the mainstream media deliberately tried to starve the tea party movement of oxygen for as long as it could while, in contrast, the mainstream media began promoting the ows protests as soon as it could.
there are many qualitative points to be made (when the mainstream media did begin to cover the tea party movement, it was from the outset with an agenda to characterize the movement as “angry” and “extreme”) but if we must further indulge this narrative about “the rightwing media” being hypocritical in it’s differing coverage of the tea party and the ows, i’d prefer we stick to quantifiable metrics like the one i produced above.
there is nothing more pathetic about the left’s phony charade at being the underdogs of the media narrative than the fact that the charade is only sustained for as long as one can pretend that the only news network in existence is fox.
Thanks for the link. Read it, and the tenants are sound and ethical. Whether you think all the people who now support OWS are wrong, or the wool is pulled over our eyes has yet to be determined. Also, your comment about the ratio of news stories isn't a fair one. OWS has gained far more support, and has had much more turmoil than the TP. Tell me, how many TP members camped out for their rights, or got pepper sprayed and arrested by police? How many TP members from other countries were in solidarity with the US and marched? Lastly, you can't consider this movement a leftist movement, it's reaches further than that. Just read the protest signs and compare them to the signs from Tea Party Activists you would see on FOX. Quite a divide in the message.
i absolutely agree. there have been just about zero clashes with police at tea party demonstrations. there have been many arrests of ows protesters. in one case, an ows protester stuffed his foot under a parked police motorcycle and wailed around on the pavement in a clownish pantomime of "don't taze me bro!", adjusting his foot from under the front wheel to under the rear wheel in the course of his display. this was meant to manifest evidence of police brutality, a necessary component in any fantasy narrative of a noble peasant's twilight resistance struggle against the king's legions. the tea parties have forgone this sort of risible nonsense not because they fail to grasp the potency of theater, but because they are, like most ordinary folks, put off by public disorderliness. they never required a michael moore to remind them that the police are people too.
it seems like you're suggesting that it was an error on the part of the tea party movement to secure permits for their demonstrations and avoid defecating on police cars; that locking arms and charging at the police makes for exciting camera-bait, and i don't doubt you're correct for a certain set of circumstances. however the strategic wisdom of not misbehaving seems to have been the prudent choice for the tea party movement. being as it is a movement identified with conservatism, the mainstream media was eager to portray them as, at first, "angry" and then subsequently, "extreme", "crazy", "racist" and finally, violent and nascent terroristic, despite having behaved themselves scrupulously.
--reply to below-- i suppose we only have the video evidence the protesters choose to release. in the case of the faked motorcycle injury, it was a protester's video from a good viewing angle (bad narrative frame, i suppose) which revealed the fraud. other frauds have arisen from ows, such as the arial photo which purported to show the ows demonstration flood the wallstreet area for a full four square blocks. this was meant to breath air into the false meme that the ows protest - at the time numbered just over one thousand by their own count - was being subjected to a deliberate media blackout. in fact the image was of a previous, unrelated, and much sparser protest captured from google maps and photoshop's clone tool was generously applied to multiply the crowd to ridiculous proportions. with that in mind, skepticism would appear to be a more appropriate mode than openness when considering the stories the ows tells of itself. for instance, one must ask one's self, "have i ever closed an account at a bank?" i have in fact. was i arrested for doing so? i wasn't. it hadn't even occurred to me, actually. then, "have i ever marched into a bank with two dozen comrades and 'occupied' the lobby?" and there it becomes clear that the protesters weren't arrested for peacefully closing their accounts, but for perpetrating an organized disruption in a bank lobby. i honestly can't imagine who you think would interpret it differently or why.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/Officer-Bologna/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6svA6Qvq1U&feature=share
There is absolutely no video evidence of protesters charging police to incite riot, but there is tons of evidence of a few bad police officers taking it WAY to far.. here 2 for you. I dare you to watch them with an open mind
First, let me say that BOTH parties are under the same control. They are friends behind the scenes, and there is no REAL difference, they just use different spin.
"The main difference I see so far between the two is that OWS is far more grass roots than the TP." The people who got invloved where total grass roots, that is until it got majorly co-opted. Now it's just another faction in the rebuplican arm. Hoefully the grass roots people here won't let that happen to OWS, but on the left.
" OWS has NO help spreading the message, heck, mainstream media thinks it is a yawn. The TP were the darlings of media, the "real America", remember" The right spin media loved and still loves the tea party..yes, however the left spin media..called them every name in the book. Just as the right spin is now doing to OWS. Tea party had right wing help, OWS IS getting help, money, and other stuff from left wing.
BOTH parties suck.
They will try to take over any movement that they feel threatens them.
I like that, yet, I still get chills when I hear TEA PARTY.. I see hate signs, racial slurs, spitting, and screaming. I know that is wrong in a sense, because the initial tea party wasn't quite that. Or Libertarians, I should say. Alot of the beliefs are the same, I know. Shame it got hijacked by the GOP, Palin, and the right wing media, which we all know, is full of hot air.
I'd like to see tea party members take that back from FOX before I get too excited. However, I will not allow myself to shut that door. I feel like the more "intelligent people" at the table discussing the real facts, the better.
Thanks and Welcome:) oh, and also PEACE
Yes, I know mention both of these groups people freak out haha .... we really,REALLY need to get the parties out of each group and start to focus! thanks for the support! and ohhh Peace :-)
there is so much funding for the tea party that has been traced back to MAJOR PLAYERS in the big money game, it is hard to find the people who actually hold the same ideals as OWS, and not just the people who regurgitate the same slogans as FOX. Why not just call yourself an Occupant. Ditch the Tea Party logo. I think it's been paid for already. This one is still free. Keep your message though. Just a thought.
I'm not a Tea Party member just letting you know :-) I'm more on OWS side but I see points on both sides so I created the website to highlight it and move the conversation forward . Its just sad the points get lost because everyone has such strong opinion regarding the 2 groups :/
Even if you were TP, I can already tell you aren't holding a sign full of hatred and bigotry. That is good. Blame the media, I personally stay away from any large media company and get my news more "home grown". Organic news you might say.
It would be very accurate to say that OWS doesn't support either Republicans or Democrats, for we are Centrists, and Capitalism is the way to go. However, many more people will come to your side when you are proactive (for “new” Business & Government solutions), instead of reactive (against “old” Business & Government solutions), which is why what we most immediately need is a comprehensive “new” strategy that implements all our various socioeconomic demands at the same time, regardless of party, and although I'm all in favor of taking down today's ineffective and inefficient Top 10% Management System of Business & Government, there's only one way to do it – by fighting bankers as bankers ourselves; that is, using a Focused Direct Democracy organized according to our current Occupations & Generations. Consequently, I have posted a 1-page Summary of the Strategically Weighted Policies, Organizational Operating Structures, and Tactical Investment Procedures necessary to do this at:
http://getsatisfaction.com/americanselect/topics/on_strategic_legal_policy_organizational_operational_structures_tactical_investment_procedures
Join
http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/StrategicInternationalSystems/
because we need 100,000 “support clicks” at AmericansElect.org to support a Presidential Candidate -- such as any given political opportunist you'd like to draft -- in support of the above bank-focused platform.
Most importantly, remember, as cited in the first link, that as Bank Owner-Voters in your 1 of 48 "new" Business Investment Groups (or "new" Congressional Committees) you become the "new" Congress replacing the "old" Congress according to your current Occupation & Generation, called a Focused Direct Democracy.
Therefore, any Candidate (or Leader) therein, regardless of party, is a straw man, a puppet; it's the STRATEGY – the sequence of steps – that the people organize themselves under, in Military Internet Formation of their Individual Purchasing & Group Investment Power, that's important. In this, sequence is key.
Why? Because there are Natural Social Laws – in mathematical sequence – that are just like Natural Physical Laws, such as the Law of Gravity. You must follow those Natural Social Laws or the result will be Injustice, War, etc.
The FIRST step in Natural Social Law is to CONTROL the Banks as Bank Owner-Voters. If you do not, you will inevitably be UNJUSTLY EXPLOITED by the Top 10% Management Group of Business & Government who have a Legitimate Profit Motive, just like you, to do so.
Consequently, you have no choice but to become Candidates (or Leaders) yourselves as Bank Owner-Voters according to your current Occupation & Generation.
So please JOIN the 2nd link so we can make our support clicks at AmericansElect.org when called for, at exactly the right time, by an e-mail from that group, in support of the above the bank-focused platform. If so, then you will see and feel how your goals can be accomplished within the above strategy as a “new” Candidate (or Leader) of your current Occupation & Generation.