Forum Post: Was W the Worst ~ You F-ing Betcha ~ The Nightmare that Keeps on Giving
Posted 11 years ago on April 25, 2013, 4:09 a.m. EST by WSmith
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Worst President in America History Is Trying to Spin His Nightmare Legacy
Are you ready for the George W. Bush comeback tour?
April 24, 2013 | Salon / By Joan Walsh
Americans are a forgiving and forgetting people. That’s all that can explain the rise in George W. Bush’s approval ratings since he left office in 2009. Back then, he had the lowest approval rating of any departing president since Richard Nixon (who departed in a helicopter after resigning in disgrace) with a 33 percent overall approval rating. Only 24 percent of Americans approved of his handling of the recession-bound economy. As recently as last November’s election, more voters blamed Bush than President Obama for the country’s ongoing economic woes.
Now, on the eve of the opening of his presidential library and an apparent Bush-rehabilitation tour, starting with a Diane Sawyer interview Wednesday night, Bush faces a kinder, gentler American public. According to a new ABC News/Washington Post poll, Americans are now split on the former president, with 47 percent approving of his performance and 50 percent disapproving. He’s still underwater, as the pollsters say, but that’s not a bad jump in four years. He’s even climbed on the economy, with 43 percent now approving of the job he did, while 57 percent stayed tethered to the reality-based community, and still disapprove.
Bush has even climbed among Democrats: 25 percent approve of the job he did, up from only 6 percent when he left office. (Who says Democrats are haters?)
What’s going on? And will Bush’s comeback tour bump his numbers up even more, which would be some rare good news for the broken, embattled Republican Party?
http://www.alternet.org/worst-president-america-history-trying-spin-his-nightmare-legacy?paging=off
50 Reasons You Despised George W. Bush's Presidency: A Reminder on the Day of His Presidential Library Dedication, He's one of the worst presidents ever.
April 24, 2013 |
On Thursday, President Obama and all four living ex-presidents will attend the dedication of the $500 million George W. Bush Presidential Library at Southern Methodist University in Dallas, Texas. Many progressives will remember Bush as a contender for the "worst president ever," saying he more aptly deserves a multi-million-dollar prison cell for a litany of war crimes.
Amazingly, the Bush library seeks to ask visitors "What would you have done?" if you were in this president’s shoes. The ex-president’s defenders are betting that the public will reconsider their judgments after a hefty dose of historical amnesia. Bush has been absent from political debates in recent years, instead making millions in private speeches. Today, his popularity is even with Obama's; both have 47 percent approval rating.
Let’s look at 50 reasons, some large and some small, why W. inspired so much anger.
1. He stole the presidency in 2000. People may forget that Republicans in Florida purged more than 50,000 African-American voters before Election Day, and then went to the Supreme Court where the GOP-appointed majority stopped a recount...
2. Bush’s lies started in that race.
3. He covered up his past. He was a party boy...
4. He loved the death penalty.
5. He was a corporate shill from Day 1.
6. He gutted global political progress.
7. He embraced global isolationism. He withdrew from the 1972 Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty, over Russia’s protest, taking the U.S. in a direction not seen since World War I.
8. He ignored warnings about Osama bin Laden.
9. Ramped up war on drugs, not terrorists.
10. “My Pet Goat.” He kept reading a picture book to grade-schoolers for seven minutes after his top aides told him that the World Trade Centers had been attacked in 9/11. Then Air Force One flew away from Washington, D.C., vanishing for hours after the attack.
11. Squandered global goodwill after 9/11.
12. Bush turned to Iraq not Afghanistan.
13. Attacked United Nation weapons inspectors.
14. He flat-out lied about Iraq’s weapons.
15. He ignored the U.N. and launched a war.
16. Abandoned international Criminal Court.
17. Colin Powell’s false evidence at U.N.
18. He launched a war on CIA whistleblowers.
19. Bush pardoned the Plame affair leaker.
20. Bush launched the second Iraq War.
21. Baghdad looted except for oil ministry. The Pentagon failure to plan for a military occupation...
22. The war did not make the U.S. safer.
23. U.S. troops were given unsafe gear. From inadequate vests...
24. Meanwhile, the war propaganda continued. From landing on an aircraft carrier...
25. He never attended soldiers' funerals.
26. Meanwhile, war profiteering surged.
27. Bush ignored international ban on torture.
28. Created the blackhole at Gitmo and renditions.
29. Bush violated U.S. Constitution as well.
30. Iraq war created federal debt crisis. The total costs of the Iraq and Afghan wars will reach between $4 trillion and $6 trillion...
31. He cut veterans’ healthcare funding. At the height of the Iraq war...
32. Then Bush decided to cut income taxes... disproportionately benefited the wealthy...
33. Assault on reproductive rights.
34. Cut Pell Grant loans for poor students.
35. Turned corporations loose on environment. Bush’s environmental record was truly appalling...
36. Said evolution was a theory—like intelligent design.
37. Misguided school reform effort. Bush’s “No Child Left Behind” initiative...
38. Appointed flank of right-wing judges. Bush’s two Supreme Court picks—Chief Justice John Roberts and Associate Justice Samuel Alito...
39. Gutted the DOJ’s voting rights section. Bush’s Justice Department appointees led a multi-year effort to prosecute so-called voter fraud, including firing seven U.S. attorneys who did not pursue overtly political cases because of lack of evidence.
40. Meanwhile average household incomes fell.
41. And millions more fell below the poverty line.
42. Poverty among children also exploded.
43. Millions more lacked access to healthcare.
44. Bush let black New Orleans drown. Hurricane Katrina exposed Bush’s attitude toward the poor...
45. Yet pandered to religious right.
46. Set record for fewest press conferences.
47. But took the most vacation time. Reporters analyzing Bush’s record found that he took off 1,020 days...
48. Karl Rove, Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld. Not since Richard Nixon’s...
49. He’s escaped accountability for his actions. From Iraq...
50. He may have stolen the 2004 election as well. The closest Bush came to a public referendum on his presidency...
Any bright spots? Conservatives will lambaste lists like this for finding nothing good about a president like W. So, yes, he created the largest ocean preserve offshore from Hawaii in his second term. And in his final year in office, his initiative to fight AIDS across Africa has been credited with saving many thousands of lives. But on balance, George W. Bush was more than eight years of missed opportunities for America and the world. He was a disaster, leaving much of America and the world in much worse shape than when he took the oath of office in 2001. His reputation should not be resurrected or restored or seen as anything other than what it was.
Steven Rosenfeld covers democracy issues for AlterNet and is the author of "Count My Vote: A Citizen's Guide to Voting" (AlterNet Books, 2008).
I would consider these issues -
How did progressives let this happen?
How could conservatives-Rs-religious right voters be convinced to vote for electable people who support the 99%
How could the anarchists-libertarians non-voters be convinced that VOTING for electable candidates is the ONLY REAL answer
ex: how can louis gomert, michelle bachmann, steve king, mark sanford get a single vote???
( I could list at least a dozen others )
How did we get in this mess: 1%-owned MSM, RepubliCON-controlled Fox Lies Network, 24/365/every city RW-Hate&Lie Radio, media Omission and Propaganda!
And this: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/06/08/1098434/-Eric-Cantor-Paul-Ryan-Kevin-McCarthy-Plot-To-Sabotage-US-Economy-with-Frank-Luntz
Anarchs-libs just have to grow up or enjoy terminal irrelevance, but the zombies who support the RW wackadoodles, are utterly hopeless.
How to get out: Unite and Win! Adopt and recognize: People Come First!!! Embrace the tool our founding fathers left us: democracy!
15 comments and 12 are from the OP and bensdad, which could be the same person.....ANYWAYS,
Shoot me if I am still whining about Obama in 2021!!!!!!!
Since everything you might have a problem with Obama is just really more carnage from W-The Worst President in American History (and a wonderful Redistribution success for the democracy and America hating 1%-Cons) just shoot yourself now! You'll never live down the shame. Why suffer?
Most of America hates W and the dirty Cons obstructing, sabotaging and hostage-taking American Progress, and we're not (sorry to say to frightened righties) the same person. We're tens of millions of Votes that spell obsolescence to the Greed-Addled 1% RepubliCon Cult!!
13!
Not sure why you imply I am a Bush supporter. I sure don;t see that in my previous post, but it's a nice feint for you to avoid my point.....To what end is this Bush bashing towards? It's history (and incidentally, I skimmed the first few bullets and had to go back to the top to make sure you were talking about Bush and not Obama),
Anyway, i am sure that since Obama has continued all the liberty crushing policies of Bush, you have to direct your anger somewhere. So sad. Why not take all that energy and protest against things going on RIGHT NOW?
The Nightmare that keeps on giving, they're trying to spin it positive like they did with Raygun like you are recriminating Obama. Oh, of course you're not a Con, but perhaps it's the spinners who should look forward, forget the painful regression and redistribution Cons perpetrated which we still suffer, instead of blame-shifting and whitewashing RECENT HISTORY.
If you ask, I think your doctor might have a pill to help you. Your nightmare is that Obama talked a good game, and that's all it was - talk.
The only diff bt Bush and Obama is their Ivy League pedigree and the political party they belonged to.
Face it and you might feel a bit better.
Is this what you're talking about: http://occupywallst.org/forum/the-gops-new-plan-hit-dems-from-the-left-old-news-/
'Mission Accomplished,' 10 years later
By Joshua Pugh | May 1, 2013 at 1:00 am
The United States’ mission in Iraq was far from accomplished, as President George W. Bush indicated a decade ago. The United States’ mission in Iraq was far from accomplished, as President George W. Bush indicated a decade ago. (Associated Press)
On the 10th anniversary of President George W. Bush's infamous "Mission Accomplished" speech, it's instructive to pause and ask what exactly we learned from Bush's presidency. For some reason the topic of Bush's legacy has made a comeback lately. But despite protestations from ideological allies that the 43rd president will be judged on a curve by history, President Bush was in fact a historically bad president, the worst in decades.
The fiscal policies that he managed to pass were successful only in destroying the country's balance sheet and shooting the GOP's fiscal credibility to pieces. His deficit-funded expansion of Medicare Part D created a coverage donut hole that he left to his successor to repair, and set the stage for two consecutive election cycles (so far) of Republicans screaming for entitlement reform. Bush's deficit-funded tax policies ushered in years of anemic business investment and sluggish GDP growth, as well as the weakest job and income growth in six decades.
Lansing Republicans have recently taken to referring to this period as "the lost decade." This is correct — but it's dishonest to suggest that Michigan's experience was unique among states. In the economic cycle between March 2001 and December 2007, overall monthly job growth was the worst of any cycle since World War II, and household income growth was negative for the first time since economists started measuring it.
George W. Bush didn't just exact a toll on the credibility of the United States, but on the office of the presidency. It cannot be overstated that he and his advisers lied to get us into Iraq, into an unnecessary war that cost hundreds of thousands of innocent lives and $3 trillion.
The documents that have slowly leaked out thus far have made it clear that the American people were misled. But we are owed more: For starters, the full declassification of the 90-page National Intelligence Estimate on Iraq's weapons of mass destruction, and more thorough mainstream media coverage of the dissenting figures in the Bush Administration in the years leading up to the invasion of Iraq.
For the first time, major presidential decisions had been reduced to mere props in the campaign to sell the invasion of Iraq. On May 1st, 2003, Bush infamously gave a speech on the USS Abraham Lincoln in which he declared — wearing his trademark smirk — that major combat operations in Iraq had ended. In fact, the vast majority of military and civilian casualties occurred after the speech.
Bush's blatant lies, and his intentional 2004 electoral strategy of dividing the electorate along the issue of gay marriage, have been as pervasive a continuing legacy as his deficits. A June 2012 poll found that 63 percent of Republican respondents still wrongly believed that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction when the United States invaded in 2003. Undoubtedly this strategy helped prime the American political system for the bitter divisions that persist to this day.
Bush is correct that his presidency will be remembered by a series of "decision points." A decade later, Washington politicians should learn from these decisions and use extreme caution while grappling with the fuzzy details surrounding the case to put American boots on the ground in another costly overseas conflict in Syria.
Joshua Pugh writes for Progress Michigan and contributes to The Detroit News’ Politics Blog.
From The Detroit News: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20130501/OPINION01/305010304#ixzz2S2mvKKh5
10th Anniversary of bin-Laden's "Mission Accomplished"
by DaneJaneiroFollow | Mon Apr 29, 2013 at 03:13 PM PDT
In two days, I'm sure there will be ample note of the 10th anniversary of the "Mission Accomplished" speech. All the great irony and infamy of that moment will garner the attention it deserves, especially in light of the opening of Bush 43's Presidential library last week.
But today is the 10th anniversary of a real and sustained victory. On this date in 2003, the press buried the story of the US withdrawal from its redoubt in Saudi Arabia. This was Osama bin-Laden's greatest victory-really the one he sought. And the fact that the Cheney-Bush administration buried the news in the run up the Commander Codpiece's ersatz victory dance indicates that Cheney and Rumsfeld and the others who were running things at the time had some sense of the stinging defeat we had suffered.
Before 9/11, what I knew about bin-Laden was that his agenda consisted of 1) global Jihad leading to the prophesied dominion of Islam and the imposition of global Shari'a and 2) the immediate expulsion of infidels (i.e., US military) from the Muslim holy land. Well good luck with number 1--it's a big an diverse world, and not everybody wants to buy that kind of radicalism. But #2 was really what drove the day-to-day operations of Al Qaeda back in those days. Expulsion of US troops was the real plum here.
In the immediate aftermath of 9/11, Saudi Arabia had a lot of attention on it. 15 of the 19 hijackers were Saudis, and the stark political reality of that country came to light. I recall encountering a story of how Saudi Arabia had become, at that time, a net debtor nation. The corrupt House of Saud monarchy had grown so overburdened by its own profligacy that the country, despite its oil riches, had run into serious headwinds during the Clinton era regimen of oil prices (remember: oil was less than $10 per barrel in January 1999.) At any rate, to relieve the political pressure that is bound to foment around such great disparity in wealth and the attendant lack of vision or care for the greater populace, the Saudi princes decided to control the population through feeding a militant brand of Islam which was promoted to maintain the whole corrupt culture while stifling dissent and channelling frustration with the economic and political system into this doctrinaire, if not fully radicalized, expression. President W. Bandar Bush was, of course, fully in the corner of the corrupt princes--to the extent that the congressional report on 9/11 redacted--the famous pages that were widely speculated to have implicated the Saudi Intelligence service in providing cover and assistance to the 9/11 plotters. But we were not allowed to see that, so it didn't happen. ( Except it most likely did.)
In 2003 I was in the throes of a major 9/11 truthing and sleuthing phase, and I was endlessly flailing and screaming about the nightmare for democracy that the run-up to attacking Saddam represented.When I saw the story about the US parting ways with Saudi bases, I was in deep, next-level conspiracy--we attacked Iraq to provide cover for our exodus--which some (like me) could point out was a complete victory for bin-Laden and al-Qaeda as configured in that 1998-2004. I'm not saying that the Iraq war was a pretext for the US military leaving Saudi Arabia--I've grown less conspiratorial with time--but the war certainly provided the right kind of hand feint to distract the population from reality of bin-Laden's apparent victory.
So in 2013, thanks to $100 a barrel oil, Saudi Arabia's balance sheet is back in the black. bin-laden's dead, and his global jihad is mostly in tatters. We have PATRIOT and Military Commissions and re-ratified FISA in our lives in more ways than we'd care to think. And we have a drone base in Saudi Arabia, which skirts the issue of the presence of infidels in the holy land--only the infidel's toys.
...Same as it every was...
Thank Darwin the Bush-Cheney Nightmare is behind us, and let the carnage they left behind (that Cons and Zombies blame on Obama: Sequester/Austerity, Massive Unemployment, 1% Tyranny, etc.) be a reminder for Voters and Abstainers to never be so fucking stupid again! Elections have results! No More RepubliCons EVER!!
13 Reasons To Be Glad Bush Is No Longer President
By ThinkProgress on Apr 25, 2013 at 9:09 am
The five living presidents will meet in Texas on Thursday to dedicate the George W. Bush Presidential Library and Museum at Southern Methodist University in Dallas. And while Bush and his aides are using the occasion to soften the 43 president’s image and solidify his legacy, a recounting of Bush-era policies — from his deregulation of Wall Street to the invasion of Iraq — greatly undermine the new rosy narrative of the Bush years:
Authorized the use of torture
Though the US Code bans torture, Bush personally issued a memorandum six days after the September 11th attacks instructing the CIA that it could use “enhanced interrogation techniques” against suspected terrorists. The methods included waterboarding, sleep deprivation, and “stress positions.” A recently-released bipartisan committee concluded it was “indisputable” that these techniques constituted torture, and that the highest authorities in the country bore responsibility for the creation of a torture programs at Guantanamo Bay and CIA “black sites” around the world.
Politicized climate science
Bush’s “do-nothing” approach to climate change prevented the U.S. from pursuing meaningful action. Though he claimed that global warming was a serious problem that was either a natural phenomenon or caused by humans, the administration routinely edited scientific reports to downplay the threat of climate change, censored CDC testimony that climate change was a public health threat, and promoted climate denying studies financed by ExxonMobil. At the end of the Bush presidency, a top intelligence adviser warned the incoming president that climate change was a massive destabilizing national security threat that would lead to “Dust Bowl” conditions in the Southwest.
Ignored Afghanistan to launch a war in Iraq
Rather than consolidating gains after the overthrow of the Taliban in Afghanistan, Bush and his neoconservative allies pushed for removing Saddam Hussein from power, kicking off a war that led to one mistake after another. Ten years later, the war is estimated to have cost cost up to $6 trillion and resulted in the death of more than 100,000 Iraqis, 4,000 Americans and another 31,000 wounded. Meanwhile, Afghanistan saw a resurgence of the Taliban after Bush shifted resources to Iraq.
Botched the response to Hurricane Katrina
Bush appointed Michael Brown — a man whose only real qualifications were political connections and a sting at the International Arabian Horse Association — to head the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) in 2003 and he preceded to undo everything the Clinton Administration had done to make FEMA functional, botching the response to 2004′s Hurricane Frances so badly as to prompt calls for his firing. But Bush kept Brown on board and, as a detailed timeline of the response to Hurricane Katrina demonstrates, neither man took the storm seriously until it was too late. Bush, who famously said “Brownie, you’re doing a heck of a job” midway through the crisis, thus presided over the most deaths due to a single natural disaster in the United States since 1900.
Defunded stem cell research
At the turn of the century there was perhaps no greater hope for finding cures to illnesses ranging from Alzheimer’s to diabetes than ongoing stem cell research. But months after taking office, Bush eliminated all federal funding for any new research involving stem cells, citing a religious objection to the use of embryos — even though the embryos in question were byproducts from couples undergoing in vitro fertilization and would have been destroyed by IVF clinics regardless. Twice more during his presidency, Bush vetoed legislation that would have restored funding.
Required Muslim men to register with the government
Following the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001, Bush’s Attorney General, John Ashcroft, instituted an anti-terrorism program to register all male immigrants between 18 and 40 years old from 20 Arab and South Asian countries. Thousands of innocent men came forward to register, only to be rounded up for minor visa violations. Roughly 1,000 men and boys in the process of applying for permanent residence were arrested and confined in standing-room-only centers, enduring invasive strip searches and beatings by guards. Many were deported, while others were held for months after their immigration cases were resolved, without a shred of evidence they had any links to terrorism.
Reinstated the global gag rule
On Bush’s first day in office he reinstated a rule that prevented any non-profit doing work overseas from using any of their own, private money to fund family planning services. This so-called “Global Gag Rule” posed a serious threat to international maternal health, but it also cut off funding for HIV/AIDS initiatives, child health programs, and water and sanitation efforts.
Supported anti-gay discrimination
In 2004, President Bush endorsed the Federal Marriage Amendment (FMA), which would have banned same-sex couples from marrying in the U.S. Constitution. The Massachusetts Supreme Court had just ruled in favor of marriage equality, and Bush hoped to block the ruling from taking effect because “a few judges and local authorities are presuming to change the most fundamental institution of civilization.” Though the FMA failed numerous times in Congress during Bush’s tenure, he exploited the issue of same-sex marriage to turn out conservative voters for the 2004 election. That year, 11 states added constitutional amendments outlawing same-sex marriage.
Further deregulated Wall Street
Under Bush, federal agencies eliminated regulations on predatory lending, capital requirements, and other Wall Street practices, allowing banks to engage in riskier and more destructive practices that contributed to the financial crisis that started on his watch. Bush’s Treasury Department also pushed for even further deregulation that would have given Wall Street more oversight over its own practices even after the housing collapse had begun.
Widened income inequality
The per-person benefits of Bush’s tax cuts accrued to the top one percent of Americans, as the rate for capital gains dropped to 15 percent. The CBO found that federal income taxes dropped far more as a percentage of the one percent’s income than for any other group after 2000.
Undermined worker protections
Under Bush, the Occupational Safety and Health Administration, whose mission is to protect safe working conditions, issued 86 percent fewer rules or regulations and pulled 22 items from its agenda of proposed safety and health rules. The office’s funding and staff were also consistently reduced. Meanwhile, funding for the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission, the agency charged with helping workers who claim discrimination against their employers, was similarly low and staffing fell even as the number of complaints increased, leading to a rising backlog of cases.
Ideological court appointments
Bush filled the federal bench with ideologues, including two lifetime appointments to the Supreme Court. These conservatives believe that corporations should be able to buy and sell elections, ruled against equal pay for equal work, and have sought to undermine a woman’s right to choose.
Presided over a dysfunctional executive branch
A 2008 analysis by the Center for Public Integrity documented more than 125 executive branch failures over Bush’s two terms. These included government breakdowns on “education, energy, the environment, justice and security, the military and veterans affairs, health care, transportation, financial management, consumer and worker safety,” and others. “I think we’ll look back on this period as one of the most destructive periods in American public life . . . both in terms of policy and process,” Thomas E. Mann, senior fellow at the nonpartisan Brookings Institution observed, noting “genuine distortion in the constitutional system, an exaggerated sense of presidential power and prerogative and acquiescence by a Republican Congress in the face of the first unified Republican government since Dwight Eisenhower.”
http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2013/04/25/1913311/13-reasons-to-be-glad-bush-is-not-president-anymore/
http://thinkprogress.org/progress-report/
Bush-Cheney's despicable exploitation of 9-11 ~ and the massive, lemming, War Frenzy that followed ~ was one of the worst crimes they perpetrated on America, among a seemingly endless ~ still being revealed ~ list of crimes. Like the Greatest Redistribution of wealth ~ from the 90% to the top 10% ~ in world history! Never EVER Again!!
9-11 was the launching pad for an accelerated neoliberal agenda, and it definitely was a "despicable exploitation."
Again: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zODkMFTVrls
What's going on in this country is both sad and frightening, and why more people haven't awoken to it, i don't understand
~Odin~
There is a name for the strategy, it's called "Shock Doctrine."
It's part of the Class War waged by the 1%.
And the spoils of the Class War is the greatest Redistribution of Wealth in world history, from the masses to the rich!
9-11 was the latest catalyst, or re-acceleration of the neoliberal agenda or Austrian Economics or Raygun-Omics or whatever new scheme they veil just pain old GREED and TYRANNY with. The first of which in this nation resulting in the Revolution and the institution of a "Nation of Laws--Not Men" and democracy, to make sure we don't let Kings and Tyrants take over again. But the descendants of the Royalists and Loyalists who objected to this result have never stopped objecting to Laws and democracy and have mostly populated the RepubliCon Cult to serve their Kings in the 1%. While we people disengaged, willingly, by design; mostly ignorant and oblivious that we still wield the greatest power. Do you realize how fucking frustrating it is to watch this!?
We haven't "woken up to it" because the 1% controls almost all media, (all we know, see and want) and have us divided, intolerant of each other, and afraid to UNITE. And they even give us guns so we'll shoot each other, further solidifying our fear, suspicion and hatred of each other AND even our own Gubmint! The ONE THING that could save us. We are being played!!!
Just as the Gulf of Tonkin incident was used to get us into the Vietnam War ....so too was 9-11 used in getting us into a perpetual state of war that has escalated their class war on us while enriching the 1% at the expense of people's lives
I knew the world had changed that day when i witnessed the second tower being hit, but i had no idea that it would come to this
Agreed, it is really f..king "frustrating," and the only hope we have is by REACHING-OUT.....building COMMUNITY/UNITING, and RESISTING
Only then will we realize our potential, and the EMPOWERMENT that comes with it.
~Odin~
The MIC Eisenhower warned us about.
We have to put aside our differences, our flaws, our dislikes, because we have a bigger evil, a bigger picture, a bigger goal and concern to achieve. As I've tiresomely said so many times before, we can't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. One, because there is NO perfection; and two, because the enemy of the good is our enemy, too!
United and organized and participating there is nothing we can't do. That's why the 1% has us at each other's throats.
Now share this insight with Girlfriday who simply wants to "impeach," with no concern for who or how the vacated seat is re-filled. As if impeachment fills a a vacated seat. The government we have is the result of lack of participation, lots of division, and pervasive disengagement. Gotta turn that around to get a better government, but no matter what it will never be perfect. The 1% will have us eating our young if it suited them, and an imperfect democratic government is way better than that.
Unite and Win!
Yes, I'm all for "Unite and win!," but that will never mean to me that Occupy should get involved with the rotten political process
Many people, and/or groups that we either have alliances with or share some common goals with are doing 'political stuff', and that's fine
That's not Occupy Wall Street's role though
I mean political involvement hasn't worked in over thirty years as union enrollment is less than a third of what it was at its peak, That while the 99% continue their downward slide
'Uniting' doesn't necessarily mean that we have to adapt to each others methods, but rather
It's more about respecting each other's different roles in the struggle for a sea change we all want
At the May Day meetings I attended, there was a respect, empathy and realization we all have a common oppressor, whether it was OWS, immigrant groups, unions, or community groups. But no group tried to co-opt another group
~Odin~
Plus Bush did plenty to kill unions.
So, a unionized public employee, a member of the Tea Party, and a CEO are sitting at a table. In the middle of the table is a plate with a dozen cookies on it. The CEO reaches across and takes 11 cookies. He looks at the tea partier and says, "Watch out for that union guy, he wants a piece of your cookie." Somebody pointed out that the math is wrong on this, a CEO really gets at least 400 cookies compared to the union guy. Do we need unions? "United we bargain, divided we beg."
This is politics!
Everything is political, EVERYTHING!
And the inspiration of Occupy Wall street is unavoidably political.
And please don't assume spokesmanship for OWS.
The very act of occupying Wall street (demonstrating, protesting, displaying grievance), the geographical fortress symbol of the economical-political (most assuredly anti-democracy, pro-plutocracy, RIGHT WING POLITICAL) establishment that robbed us, took us hostage, made us pay ransom, and then rewarded itself in our faces defiantly, is just political. To say it's not is just silly. Ridiculous to the point of delusion.
Pushing back on the tyranny of the rich from and for the exploited masses is political. It's not sorcery. It's not sports, although there is politics in sports, especially when greedy owners try to shaft the players unions. If it's not political, then please apprise my ignorant mind with the correct word.
This whole "a-political" contrivance is one of the main reasons the movement withered out. I understand the avoidance/reluctance of taking a side, neutrality, and claiming leaderlessness, although that's a little silly too.
The fact is the national Occupy Movement is about empowering the exploited and suppressed masses (99%) through unity and action against the tyranny of the rich and powerful in the greed-addled 1%. Because individually we are powerless and united we are strong. That's only political. Sorry, it just is.
Now the "rotten political process" you cite has a name, it's called "democracy." It is the rottenest, meanest, least effective, most corrupt, most rotten form of government on earth, except for all the others. Add our (America's) decades of shameless neglect and you have the corporate-1% controlled cesspool we have now. Although they recognized a good thing when we abandoned it and have totally taken it and exploited it as their own; democracy overwhelmingly favors US (we the people/99%) and all we really have to do to get it back is SHOW THE FUCK UP!
But if you are really taking about "government," as in anarchy, no government, you're completely and utterly lost.
Look VQ, you can use the term "POLITICAL" in several different ways
Whoever uses the word, ALL the meanings to that word do not have to apply to the context you want use that word in
For you the word "political" means getting involved in the 'same old' rotten "political" process, which BTW is why we are 'here'
We saw what happened in the last four POTUS elections when we "SHOW[ED] THE FUCK UP"
Tell me VQ, do ya 'reckon' things have gotten better since Obama has become President
You might like to view yourself as the strong Marlbor Man-type character and come across like the Mr Smith [who] Goes To Washington, but i just see you as a person who is trying to co-opt this struggle into the dem party,
~Odin~
Odin - froviklea, I hate to say it but you've become a TROLL.
TROLLS - Disrupt productive discussions
TROLLS - Criticize, character assignation and slime
TROLLS - Offer nothing to discussions on issues they disrupt or sling mud at (no substance or alternatives)
TROLLS - lure other users into responses to time-wasting, incorrect statements
TROLLS - Repeatedly send inflammatory or provocative messages to elicit negative responses or start a flame-war. (As a fisherman trolls for an unsuspecting fish.) : Don't answer those silly messages. Some troll is just looking for an argument.
GO AWAY FROVIKLEA - ODIN - TROLL!
SHOO TROLL SHOO: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=troll
And don't bother anyone else until you know what the hell you're talking about ~ Go Chase Unicorns!!
I am never leaving you, or your little buddy VQ (BTW where is he?) to run rough-shod over this forum in trying to turn it into an extension of the dem party
That was a good layout to your comment. It's too bad the content was 'BS', but then again, how could it not be considering your ignoble agenda of co-opting this movement....
~Odin~
Odin - froviklea, I hate to say it but you've become a TROLL.
TROLLS - Disrupt productive discussions.
TROLLS - Criticize, character assassinate and slime.
TROLLS - Offer nothing to discussions on issues they disrupt or sling mud at (no substance or alternatives).
TROLLS - Lure other users into responses to time-wasting, incorrect, ignorant and fraudulent statements.
TROLLS - Repeatedly send inflammatory or provocative messages to elicit negative responses or start a flame-war. (As a fisherman trolls for an unsuspecting fish.) : Don't answer those silly messages. Some troll is just looking for an argument.
GO AWAY FROVIKLEA - ODIN - TROLL!
SHOO TROLL SHOO: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=troll
And don't bother anyone else until you know what the hell you're talking about ~ Go Chase Unicorns!!
I understand your frustration, and the dilemma that you are in Smith/VQ, namely trying to justify our support of a party that has been betraying the trust of the people for a long time
But toughen up Smitty - YOU can do it!
While I Chase Unicorns...lol...you can go buy some knee pads in preparation for begging Obama to become part of humanity again
Have I really become a troll, or have I just become the #1 impediment for you to propagate your partisan bullshit on here? I suspect the latter ;-)...
~Odin~
Odin - froviklea, I hate to say it but you've become a [pointless, uninformed, disruptive] TROLL.
What is your bright and shiny and better idea(s)? Odin - froviklea,Troll!
I hear a lot of simplistic and short-sighted whining but I have yet to hear your ideas for improvement, progress and/or reform. Odin - froviklea,Troll!
Republicons are masters at this. Lots of criticisms, lots of fault findings, lots of complaints, but they never tell us their great solutions beyond meaningless platitudes, and certainly not their hidden allegiance to the 1%. Odin - froviklea,Troll!
Electing any POTUS does NOT make the military vanish, nor does it abolish or cure poverty, hunger, disease, crime, graft, fraud, deception, naivete, or stupidity. So you are apparently doomed to hopeless despair, since reality is too illusory for you. Odin - froviklea,Troll!
American Reality 2013: RepubliCONs are waging war against the economy and holding the country hostage! Lowest Voter turnout, Highest Big$ turnout! The 1% Kings are waging Class War against the 99% People, their strategy is Shock Doctrine, we're losing because we're not pulling together and fighting back with the weapon our forefathers left us: democracy ~ Voting!! Odin - froviklea,Troll!
The King-Cons just love your Unicorn disillusion. Odin - froviklea,Troll!
Enjoy the George W. Bush "Mission Accomplished" 10-year anniversary. Odin - froviklea, pathetic, pawn, TROLL!
Let's be honest with each other Multiman... you no more "hate" to call me a "pointless, uninformed, disruptive, pathetic, pawn TROLL" (did i miss any adjectives? lol) than
I enjoy considering you a Simpleton-Democratic-Lackey" lol
It flies in the face of logic though, and it is laughable that you try to to intellectualize yourself by being a partisan hack, while denigrating me for not being one
By your own admission in the link that you provided (Thanks;-), Scandinavians are the best informed people in the world with the British being a close second. Gee shadz, a kindred spirit of mine is British, isn't he? And so am i mostly on my Mom's side too
But although i have had fun throwing that link back at you...let's get away from that, as i am not ethocentric in the least
Let's go onto the phrase that you use constantly "Chasing Unicorns." lol....that's cute
Once again here, we have a Republican tactic being deployed by you....keep saying it, and it eventually it becomes true, in your mind at least
Tell me Smitty/VQ, had there not been 'Unicorn Chasers' might not we still be under British rule?
Or would Sweden and Norway still be under the oligarch's 'iron fist' if they played by the rules that had been corrupted by the elite?
So although i know that you do not use the phrase Chasing Unicorns in a complimentary way.... in describing people like me, i will wear your label of me as a badge of HONOR
And that is a word that you know little about.....Multiman
~Odin~
WS you are usually pretty much on target, but what do you mean become? odin has always been a troll. It did take a few weeks of chatting with him before I realized it but when he suggested I back down on the wealth inequality thing that pretty much seal the deal so to speak, he hasn't changed we just have gotten to know him better.
laughing my fucking ass off at the thought of you being number one at anything...
You know, when he was being banned I defended him, and ended up getting banned myself for my effort. I defend the right of anyone with something to say (for or against) no matter how wrong, misinformed, duped, or dumb, as long as they don't TROLL! I don't mind his feeble "#1 impediment" attacks on me, but his harassment of less experienced posters really bugs me. Personally, I think someone else is using his account. trashy?
Not VQ. So possibly you could make it easier to deal with you if you dropped that nonsense, "TM."
I suspected by the political hypocrisy (denouncing politics while BEING political) that there was a basic, intrinsic, misunderstanding of [politics]. I also detect a group-think mentality (a big red flag) where generalizations, slogans and bumperstickers encapsulate an entire ideology: "same old political process," "rotten politics," etc. But lends nothing to the understanding of politics, in fact it walls you off from understanding. It's a from of Prejudice and/or Bigotry, which, as we know from dealing with Righties and Trolls, leads to ignorance, unfounded fear, and backlash hatred. Even to the point of defying the definition of words. Sounds familiar don't it? It oozes out of some of your insufficiently processed and contradictory statements.
"For you the word "political" means getting involved in the 'same old' rotten "political" process, which BTW is why we are 'here'" You're "here" because you don't comprehend the word (or the world) of politics?? That's fucked up. OWS is here to organize people for justice and democracy.
"We saw what happened in the last four POTUS elections when we "SHOW[ED] THE FUCK UP"" I know you think this means something very specific, but the statement presupposes vague and erroneous points that require prejudiced approval to accept and reach a conclusion from. For example: Two of the last four elections you speak of were stolen, by RepubliCons and the 1%, who then preceded to redistribute our country's and state's treasuries to the rich and corporate (MIC, Big Oil, Big Money, etc), and [weaken] government and the people. They also conducted a massive and effective propaganda campaign, which is still working on the media (1%-owned) and many people (I call Zombies). All geared to induce fear, hatred and distrust with whoever they put out there: Muslims, Suddam, Al Qadea, Liberals, Taliban, politicians, Osama, progressives, taxes, Dems, Big Gubmint, Labor Unions, gun control, abortion, gays, rules and regulations, Washington DC, and finally school teachers. The other two elections we elected a Jackie Robinson POTUS who was set up to reverse 30+ years of entrenched RW-1% corruption and fix the epic disaster Bush-Cheney left, under the scrutiny of a 1%-owned MSM and a fully established World-Wide RW Propaganda Network. All amidst a populace plunged into third world depression, loss of savings and investments and homes, misinformed, deliberately divided, and desperate to survive, much less reform or protest.
This is what happened. But I have a feeling you saw something else. And the rest (I told you, not VQ) of your comments are so misinformed and erroneous they're beneath serious consideration. Delusional. Similar to GF's miss-assumptions. Prejudice only needs belief, facts need not apply. I... can't help you.
Your self-righteous, consdescending critique of me was amusing, and it was a real 'step up' for you, compared to the many malicious and vulgar attacks that you have used on people who have had the gall to disagree with you
Fair enough, you do not like my bumper-sticker-type labeling of politicans and the political process as being the "same old" or the "rotten policial process"
What would you call it when after thirty plus years, 'things' have gone steadily down-hill for the majority of us, and this all happening through republican and democratic administrations, and dem and repub majorites in the Senate and the House at different times
You call it what you want, I'll call it ROTTEN. And for you to imply which i believe you are, that this time... getting "political" (your version of course!), it will be different... is ludicrous
"OWS is here to organize people for justice and democracy." WOW man that was beautiful, but your attempt to attach it to your indsidious agenda of dragging Occupy into the dem party is disingenuous.
And your effort to associate me with all the negative things in life like "prejudice, bigotry, righties, fear and ignorance," is really fucking cute. But you forgot influenza and the common cold...lololol
Do I hear a "Hi-Oh Silver" as you self-righteously ride off into he sunset on your way back to the DNC camp
Yet another vain attempt by you in trying to defend Obama with a variety of convoluted reasons is where your argument really falls apart though,
I would be empathetic to your plight in trying to defend the indefensible namely Obamam's continuance of the neoliberal agenda, but my sense of right and wrong negates that possibility
Yes "delusional" is a very good word. May I suggest you say it repeatedly in front of your bathroom mirror
Thanks for your implied offer of "help," but I can do without your kind of help, just fine
If it looks like a duck, sounds like a duck & walks like a duck, it's a duck VQ,
~Odin~
Tell him, Brother! Tell him! Too bad I only have but one twinkle...
Thanks 'kid'...no slight intended. My first one was better, but i lost it.
Solidarity....~Odin~
O', you should read this:
The Bad Aftertaste of Twinkies
Friday, April 26, 2013 | http://www.prairie2.com/
First the good news, US GDP was up 2.5% in the first quarter, driven largely by increased consumer spending, and by restocking done by retailers after a fourth quarter sell down of inventory. This was done in anticipation of a decline in sales after the FICA tax holiday expired and that decline never really happened.
Last week's initial unemployment claims were down substantially indicating businesses aren't cutting back. While consumer spending is up, the savings rate is down, but still at a respectable number compared to the negative savings rate during the Bush years.
The bad news is that real household income has resumed the downward slide that began with the Bush crash. Income hit a low point in mid 2011 down 10% from pre-crash numbers, and struggled back to a 7% deficit, but is now down 8.2% and likely to keep sliding.
The numbers weren't all that great before the crash, you see worker wages had risen steadily with productivity from the time Alexander Hamilton created our economic system back in 1790 until right up until 1980 [RaygunOmics]. Since then the money has all gone into the pockets of the extremely rich. If you adjusted income to productivity the median household income would be double what it is now, and the minimum wage would $22/hour.
The problem is getting worse mostly because first tier union workers who make decent wages are retiring and being replaced with younger worker making a third of the pay. Increasingly highly profitable companies are even locking out workers, a sort of reverse strike. They are doing this in order to take away benefits from these second tier union workers. With their pay in the low to mid teens they can't withstand the bullying of their employers for very long.
The new Twinkies owner, a capital holdings company, has vowed to reopen the bakeries with only non-union workers. The corporate media continues to give the impression that it was a union strike that killed the Twinkies, but it was of course a repeating cycle of predatory capitalists that bought the company with borrowed money, looted the assets and pension funds. They would then bankrupt the company, taking still more in 're-organization' fees and then the whole process was repeated several times until there was nothing left but the brand name. Workers had already given so many concessions that there was no point in continuing.
This is how you take the world's dominant economy and reduce it to third world status, and nothing is even slowing them down.
www.prairie2.com Twitter @BruceEnberg and Prairie2 News on Facebook
O' you get credit for knowing the President's name, identifying the two houses of Congress, and using the words neoliberal, insidious and agenda. But you fail at comprehension, pertinence, OP recognition, blatant avoidance/projection/diversion/peevishness, deduction, reasoning and, of course, wit. I'm going to give you (out of the generosity of my bleeding liberal heart) a D-.
I have to say O', your secret rightie identity is showing (Bush sucked and we're still paying the price) and, in case it's not clear to others, O' and his desperate, sniping, recriminating, bigoted, dittohead, and omissive ilk, are no friends to the 99%.
To learn what's going on here with this guy and his Con cheerleader(s) read this:
http://occupywallst.org/forum/the-gops-new-plan-hit-dems-from-the-left-old-news-/
Unite and Win, people!
They're losing and they want to cause as much damage on their way out as they possibly can!
Yes Smith/VQ, I get your drift, anyone who isn't a dem lackey is obviously a republican
Errr... that kinda sounds like 'red-baiting' to me, (albeit in reverse) which as you know was used very successfully by a Republican Senator from Wisconsin in the 50's....hmmmm
You did a wonderful job of transposing that link on your comment, and it provided you with a good 'filler,' very simular to the creamy, white 'crap' they put in Twinkies
Once again it's amusing to me how you like to attach yourself and your dem agenda onto everything that is good and pure in the world, but one would only have to look at Obama's record to know differently
You will get no argument from me that our problems accelerated when Regan came into office. My union, like the Air Traffic Controllers Union was broken during his Presdidency with the full support of the USCG
You have though very conveniently forgotten how Clinton helped set the stage for the Wild West Banking World, and all the human misery it caused by signing the repeal of the Glass Steagall Act, and the implementation of the Financial Modernization Act
Thanks so much for your compliments, and for not failing me in your self-appointed role as my instructor, but is there any way i can get out of your class, and into one where the professor is a bit more knowledgeable, and non-partisan?....lol
Yes...."Unite and Win, people!" - 'Without being subservient to the two party system which has brought so much harm to us and our loved ones.'
~Odin~
Here you go O', all about you:
Papantonio: Anti-intellectualism Is Destroying Democracy In America (VIDEO)
Posted on April 25, 2013 by Gary Bentley •
Anti-intellectualism and anti-rationalism have become almost epidemic in America. In fact, a talented writer by the name of Susan Jacoby wrote an important book several years ago titled The Age of American Unreason. The only hesitation anyone should have about reading that book is that it is pretty scary stuff.
According to Jacoby, more than 40 percent of Americans under 44 never read a single book in the course of an entire year. Americans of all ages are losing their ability to concentrate and analyze what they hear. In fact, the rule of thumb for a political candidate was that they needed to deliver their political message in around 40 seconds; today that political sound bite needs to be delivered in eight seconds to match our ability to concentrate.
Today in American schools, teachers who used to be able teach civics, humanities, and classic literature are now forced and ordered to stuff students’ brains with just enough information to pass standardized tests that are required by short-sighted politicians. Those politicians cajole school administrators, teachers and students into perpetuating a system that lacks the design to help children learn and think critically. Instead, they are taught to simply regurgitate numbers and words.
If you want to gain a little perspective on how dumbed-down we have become, take a map of the Middle East to work and ask one of your coworkers to point out Iraq. Ask them to find that place where 5,000 Americans have died for a war based on lies, that place where we will spend $3 trillion on an endless war—a war motivated by nothing less than empire building.
So the question is are we really preparing Americans to listen to the inane fraud-talk that flows out of the mouths of shallow demagogues that overwhelm both politics and the media? Or are we content with a culture that is morphing into a mass of people incapable of critical analysis?
Jacoby is one of several contemporary writers who believe that it is impossible to sustain democracy if we are unable to intellectually analyze those times when the very people who are leaders in that democracy are lying to us.
If the Susan Jacobys are right and anti-intellectualism is a trend in America, then spoon-feeding our children with facts and figures designed merely to pass a standardized test will never prepare them to preserve democracy.
The truth is when we firmly grasp timeless themes that can be found in novels like The Grapes of Wrath, Elmer Gantry or Nineteen Eighty-Four, we are on our way to better protecting democracy against the Mitch McConnels, the Rush Limbaughs, the Rand Pauls, Peter Kings, Louie Gohmerts, the Bill O’Reillys and Glenn Becks who infect the process of intelligent conservative rational thinking.
Joshua Holland will be on the show today – he wrote a piece for Alternet that gives us an idea about how serious the problem really is.
In 2011, Newsweek asked 1,000 Americans to take the standard U.S. Citizenship test, and 38 percent of them failed. One in three couldn’t name the vice-president. A 2009 study in the European Journal of Communications looked at how informed citizens of the U.S., UK, Denmark and Finland were of the international news of the day, and the results weren’t pretty.
“Overall,” the scholars wrote, “the Scandinavians emerged as the best informed, averaging 62–67 percent correct responses, the British were relatively close behind with 59 percent, and the Americans lagging in the rear with 40 percent.” We didn’t fare much better when it came to domestic stories.
Joshua Holland concluded that widespread ignorance of objective reality poses a genuine threat to democracy. The people of the United States have ignorance in abundance.
What happens when lots of citizens don’t have a solid grasp of what’s going on in the real world?
By this time, most people who follow non-corporate media have heard about the Dunning – Kruger study that, in a nutshell, established that most Americans are too stupid to recognize that they are stupid. But add to that a German study by Dr. Mato Nagel, and you begin to understand that the more politically conservative you are, the more GOP you have in your blood and brain, the less capable you are of recognizing how incompetent and woefully underinformed and ill-equipped to make rational decisions about politics and Democratic policies.
The truth is when you look at the studies, if you fall into that knee-jerk, always right wing conservative camp of politics, you are what is considered the low hanging fruit in politics.
You are the most likely to accept massive, irrational lies delivered by manipulative neo-nut demagogues. You are the ideal target for extreme politics like fascism.
These are not new ideas surfacing in these studies. Take a few hours and read Eric Frumm’s classic work called Escape From Freedom, and you will conclude that it is typically the least informed, most irrational, and the most extreme conservatives that are the most susceptible to dictatorships and facism.
Chances are, if you are one of those corporate media-following bone heads who still believe that:
Weapons of mass destruction were found in Iraq.
Or Saddam Hussein blew up the Twin Towers
Or Obama is a secret Muslim
Or Obama wants to take your guns
Or Obama has FEMA prison camps set up for Teabag Republicans…
Then search no further – you truly are the undereducated, child-like, impressionable, irrational, dangerous cog in America’s political system that puts Democracy most at risk.
Related Posts
Papantonio: Neocon Crazies Blind To Minimum Wage Truths (VIDEO)April 27, 2013 -- Papantonio: Neocon Crazies Blind To Minimum Wage Truths (VIDEO)
Papantonio: Are Americans Too Uninformed For Democracy? (VIDEO)April 19, 2013 -- Papantonio: Are Americans Too Uninformed For Democracy? (VIDEO)
Papantonio: Offshore Banking Threatening Economic Stability (VIDEO)April 26, 2013 -- Papantonio: Offshore Banking Threatening Economic Stability (VIDEO)
Papantonio: Tea Party Parasites Taking Down GOP (VIDEO)December 11, 2012 -- Papantonio: Tea Party Parasites Taking Down GOP (VIDEO)
http://www.ringoffireradio.com/2013/04/25/papantonio-anti-intellectualism-is-destroying-democracy-in-america/
More enlightenment: http://www.ringoffireradio.com/
WOW Smith/VQ, I'm impressed that you took so much time to denigrate me in your not so noble quest to co-opt this movement into the democratic party
I would have read all of your comment as I do shadz' thoughtful and insightful comments and links, but I couldn't concentrate....lol
Don't let that deter you though. Keep writing these long-winded comments, while trying to link them to non-partisans who not only know what Occupy is about, but also have studied past struggles
I did catch the one story and took heart where they said, "Overall the scholars wrote, the Scandinavians were the best informed..." Err..you do know that I am first generation born American on my Dad's side, as he is from Scandinavia....Sweden
And from him, I have learned not to be afraid of taking a stand against unpopular beliefs, especially when they come from ignorant people,
And i also learned early on how to develop my 'critical thinking' skills, and have had that conversation with my one daughter who is in grad school for 'anthropology,' a discipline where you really need to hone your CT skills
That combined with the fact that I have extended family in several countries, and having traveled throughout a good part of the world, i kinda consider myself well-rounded. Wouldn't you think so?
After all these invaluable life experiences, I view anyone like yourself who is confident in playing partisan politics as being, shall we say short-sighted, and it is akin to being a 'blind patriot'
~Odin~
Wsmith is NOT VQkag2. This is the only ID I (formally VQkag2) use.
Set aside your paranoia and discuss whatever issue is on topic.
And so says the most deceptive Cone Of Shame person that has ever been on this forum
BTW, you do remember that COS 'award' (?) was meant for me, but not surprisingly, it was YOU who they found to have the multiple ID's
"Paranoia"...me? lol...over this...really VQ!
Will you be breaking them...pseudonyms.. out the closer we get to the next election?
~Odin~
Please stay on topic. Do you disagree that Bush was our worst Pres?
Are you trying to distract with false immature personal attacks on me because you don't like these valid criticisms on W?
I use only one ID,and make effort to co opt OWS into the Dem party.
Yes, we can agree on Bush being the worst President in recent history
I have no idea how this man can sleep at night, but then again, i can't see how Obama can rest either
Neither one of these guys gives a shit about the 99%, either in this country or abroad
What we cannot agree on is your belief that we should choose between the least of what is two evils
And that by voting democratic/progressive we can pull ourselves out of this mess
If you believe that... which your long deceptive history here suggests, my question is, why are you here and not in the dem party??
That was a rhetorical question, of course
~Odin~
What issue matters to you.? Perhaps something that occupy has taken a position on.
I can't think of any issues that have resulted from a corrupt, self-serving, neoliberal agenda that don't bother me
Hence, I have taken part in numerous demeonstrations/protests concerning civil rights, college tutitions, big banking abuses, universal health-care and the PIC & MIC
My hybrid flyers that I leave off at different businesses on a regular basis also concern all of these issues and a whole lot more
~Odin~
So even the moderators are wrong compared to your righteousness?
You are too much.
Obama has cut Social Security? Not yet, you jumped the gun boss, that's next months talking points.
Why are you policing what people say? Don't we get freedom of speech/expression?
You don't know any better than the next guy. You never agitate for change. You just dishonestly personally attack people whose opinions you disagree with.
That seems like inappropriate use of the forum.
The moderators NOW! are 'right on' as they, unlike past ones adhere to the pinciples of Occupy
Errr...your past & present time on here which was/is chock full of both blatant and insidious attempts at trying to co-opt this movement seems kinda of "inapporopiate" to me
I never "agitate"? Don't i "agitate" you by not letting you co-opt this movement into the dem party?
As far as protesting goes, I have done my share in my 55 or so trips to NYC
~Odin~
Nothing, you do nothing to further the efforts of improving the lives ofthe 99%.
You spend your time in "thought police" mode fighting phantom enemies with dishonest personal attacks.
Nothing!!
Why don't you spend your time advocating for change on the issues that occupy has taken a stand on & that affect the 99%.?
Post current info/action items, discuss solutions. Stop wasting everyones time with childish, paranoid, political witch hunts.
Come on Multi-man.
Odin contributes thoughtful debate to this forum.
You're just here to bump up your score using several imaginery friends to help you. Get a life.
That's phooey
~Odin~
I'm not discussing voting at all. Are you referring to comments I made 6 months ago?
I support voting for the best candidate that can win (never the lesser of 2 evils). But I rarely discuss voting, and try to leave the parties out of discussion..
I submit most dems are NOT progressive and only people trying to co opt progressives into the dem party attach them.
I support a new system, from the ground up, horizontal, direct democracy.
In the mean time, the in between time I support agitating all pols for the progressive change that benefits the 99%.
I am consistent in that goal. Now what is your problem? Why are you personally attacking me? I ain't done nothin to you.
You are just mincing words now VQ. "The best candidate that can win" is just another way of saying democrat/progressive
Neither Occupy or I support the duplicit tho... different roles that you want this movement to take as to do so would divert our energies to the 'same old,' which has not worked
If nothing else Obama's Presidency has proven that, most recently with the effective cuts in social securtiy he has made without even a fight
You "ain't done nothing to me" 'RECENTLY' because you no longer have a moderator here who betrayed the trust of the good people who put this site up, and worked in comlicity with you to ostracize me as being a trouble-maker
~Odin~
Bush’s Bloody Legacy in Iraq
April 25, 2013
Even as George W. Bush is honored at his new presidential library, the painful consequences of his disastrous eight years in office continue to be felt, both at home with high unemployment and overseas with unresolved wars, including a troubling spike in sectarian violence in Iraq, as ex-CIA analyst Paul R. Pillar notes.
By Paul R. Pillar
The most prominent civil wars in recent years have not started with a clear, firing-on-Fort-Sumter beginning. Instead they have been slid into as protests grow, confrontations between the regime and an opposition become more physical, and the government’s use of lethal force is increasingly matched by oppositionists firing back. This was the pattern in the civil war in Iraq unleashed by the U.S. invasion and later in Libya and Syria.
Now the same process may be occurring again in Iraq. A spurt of lethal violence this weekbetween the Shia-dominated regime and a Sunni resistance has featured such war-like encounters as helicopter-borne government troops firing on a Shia village. This is another stage in an escalating confrontation between the opposing sectarian forces in Iraq.
Coffins of dead U.S. soldiers arriving at Dover Air Force Base in Delaware in 2006. (U.S. government photo)
Again, there is no one point in the escalation at which anyone can declare that a civil war has now begun. But that does not mean one is not beginning.
Any new civil war in Iraq at this time would not really be altogether new but instead a resumption of the unresolved conflict that earlier reached a peak about six years ago. Resumption would be a reminder both of the overall results of the U.S. invasion and of the later surge of U.S. troops. We have known all along that the surge never led to the political reconciliation within Iraq that it was supposed to facilitate. Now we can say also that whatever improvement in security it fostered was temporary.
There are still two grounds for optimism that Iraq will not fall over the brink into a round of fighting anything like the earlier round. One is that unlike during Iraq’s earlier political history that the U.S. invasion and subsequent fighting disrupted, and also unlike present-day Syria, the majority religious sect in the country is also the dominant sect in the regime. This is not a situation of a subjugated majority trying to get its day of dominance. A minority that sees itself as repressed can still cause quite a ruckus, but maybe there is less potential for full-blown civil war than when there is a clear disjunction between demographic patterns and patterns of political power.
The other possible reason for optimism concerns the extensive ethnic and sectarian cleansing that occurred in the earlier round of fighting. With the confessional communities now being more thoroughly sorted out and separated than before, there is less of the street-by-street hostile interface that feeds civil war at the retail level.
Even if Iraq does not go over the brink, its teetering on the brink needs to be included in any comprehensive balance sheet on the Iraq War. Rather like the heavy cost of caring for wounded American veterans, the sectarian violence and instability in Iraq is an open-ended cost that keeps adding up as the years go by.
The purpose of noting this should not be just to refight old policy wars over the Iraq War. It should be to try to learn a lesson applicable to other situations. Syria is the most obvious relevant current situation, but there are sure to be others in the future.
The basic lesson, briefly stated, is that where there is strong communal antagonism but a weak political culture for managing such antagonism, even a big effort by outsiders is unlikely to have a lasting beneficial effect on political stability.
Paul R. Pillar, in his 28 years at the Central Intelligence Agency, rose to be one of the agency’s top analysts. He is now a visiting professor at Georgetown University for security studies. (This article first appeared as a blog post at The National Interest’s Web site. Reprinted with author’s permission.)
http://consortiumnews.com/2013/04/25/bushs-bloody-legacy-in-iraq/
Bush is back -- but not his popularity
By Mark Murray, Senior Political Editor, NBC News
Former President George W. Bush has returned to the news -- in both big and small ways.
He's a brand-new grandfather after his daughter Jenna gave birth to a baby girl.
He recently gave a wide-ranging interview to the Dallas Morning News, in which he reflected on his two terms in the White House. “Much of my presidency was defined by things that you didn’t necessarily want to have happen,” he said, citing the 9/11 terrorist attacks and Hurricane Katrina. Advertise | AdChoices
More controversially, a new nonpartisan report concludes that, in the aftermath of 9/11, the United States practiced torture and that "the nation's highest officials bore ultimate responsibility for it," the New York Times reported on Tuesday.
And next week, he'll make a public appearance -- along with the other living presidents, past and present -- at the dedication of his presidential library in Dallas, Texas on April 25.
But as Bush is back, the same can't be said of his overall popularity.
According to the most recent NBC/WSJ poll, conducted April 5-8, 35 percent of Americans view him favorably, versus 44 percent who view him negatively.
Those numbers are virtually unchanged from the five other NBC/WSJ polls that have measured Bush since the summer of 2010, although they're an improvement from when he left office (31 percent fav/58 percent unfav).
Indeed, out of the six public figures the current NBC/WSJ poll measured -- including President Barack Obama, former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, Sen. Marco Rubio (R-Fla.), Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.) and New York City Michael Bloomberg -- Bush had the worst net fav/unfav score.
Yet buried inside Bush's poll numbers is a striking finding: He fares well among the demographic groups that have favored Republicans, including defeated 2012 presidential nominee Mitt Romney, and he performs poorly among the demographic groups with whom Republicans have struggled.
The subgroups that have a net-positive view of Bush are Republicans (65 percent favorable/14 percent unfavorable), conservatives (60 percent/19 percent), seniors (48 percent/31 percent), rural Americans (43 percent/35 percent), Southerners (43 percent/37 percent), and whites (40 percent/39 percent).
But he is deeply unpopular among most other subgroups, including the biggest parts of Obama’s coalition -- 18-34 year olds (26 percent/46 percent), African Americans (19 percent/64 percent), and Latinos (27 percent/44 percent). In fact, Bush’s worst age group is the 18 to 34 year old, and his best are seniors.
He also has a net-negative with the swing demographic groups: suburban residents (37 percent/41 percent) and independents (30 percent/45 percent).
And while Bush has a net-positive rating in the South, he’s negative everywhere else: Northeast (30 percent/53 percent), Midwest (32 percent/46 percent), and West (32 percent/42 percent).
In other words, if you want more evidence of the Republican Party’s demographic strengths -- and demographic weaknesses -- look no further than these poll numbers.
8 Things You Won't See at the George W. Bush Presidential Library
—By Asawin Suebsaeng | Thu Apr. 25, 2013 3:05 AM PDT
"Eight years was awesome and I was famous and I was powerful."—Former President George W. Bush, July 2012
On Thursday, the George W. Bush Presidential Library and Museum will be officially dedicated at Southern Methodist University, a school attended by the likes of former first lady Laura Bush, actor Powers Boothe, and Kourtney Kardashian. The invitation-only event will be attended by President Obama, before he visits a memorial at Baylor University for victims of the West, Texas, plant explosion. A spokesperson says attendance at the library dedication is expected to be in the thousands.
A presidential library is one way for an ex-POTUS to attempt to shape his long-term legacy. The historical assessment of Bush's 96 months in office remains as harsh as ever (a few of the strikes against him: endorsing torture, launching war on convoluted make-believe, jumping the gun on "mission accomplished", decimating a record budget surplus, politicizing NASA and the DOJ, wiretapping, ditching Kyoto, bungling Katrina, restricting stem-cell research, and getting all pissed off at the South Park creators). Yet the former president's supporters insist that he wants to address criticism of his administration head-on. "He really wants people to go in [the library and museum] and get a sense of what it was like to be president during that time and to use that to make an informed decision about his presidency," longtime Bush adviser Karen Hughes told Yahoo News.
How thoroughly the library and exhibits (as well as the George W. Bush Presidential Center encompassing them) handle and document history has yet to be fully evaluated. However, here are eight things we are confident visitors won't see at the George W. Bush Presidential Library and Museum:
1.) Bush's Pre-Invasion Plan for Governing Post-War Iraq
Because it didn't really exist.
2.) The American Flag Put on the Toppled Saddam Statue American flag Saddam Hussein statue toppling YouTube
Because former Lieutenant Tim McLaughlin, the man who possesses the flag used for the iconic moment, refuses to lend it for use as pro-war propaganda.
3.) The World's First Monument to Shoes Thrown at Bush's Face by an Iraqi Journalist
Because such a monument was already built—a six-foot-high sculpture depicting footwear chucked at Bush's head was unveiled at an Iraqi orphanage in 2009. (The shoe monument was, however, removed one day after its unveiling.)
4.) The Time George Bush Fist-Pumped About Making the Planet Worse
Because as Bush prepared to depart Japan on the last day of his final G8 summit, he "signed off with a defiant farewell over his refusal to accept global climate change targets," and reportedly told his fellow leaders, "Good-bye from the world's biggest polluter"—a dark joke that he followed by "punch[ing] the air while grinning widely, as the rest of those present including Gordon Brown and Nicolas Sarkozy looked on in shock."
5.) 12 CIA Torture Tapes
Because the CIA destroyed them in late 2005.
6.) An Exhibit Dedicated to the George W. Bush National Park
Because of course it doesn't exist…unless Rep. Mike Conaway (R-Texas), who recently secured $25,000 to study converting Bush's childhood home to America's next national park, gets his way.
7.) These Will Ferrell Clips
Probably because the former president and the comic actor disagree so sharply about foreign policy.
8.) Evidence of WMD
Come on, you know why.
http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2013/04/8-things-wont-be-george-w-bush-presidential-library
IN DEPTH: W, The Failure
Why do so many people loathe the memory of Pres. George W. Bush? Are they right to hate him? And is he really an idiot?
With the opening of the George W. Bush Presidential library today, much of the same media that spent the Bush years blasting him - or the years since ignoring him - were fawning all over the former President today.
Which was frankly sickening.
There may be a debate going on in the media right now, over whether President George W. Bush is an idiot or is actually intelligent (but was just a really crappy president). But there's no debate that large numbers of Americans still hate President Bush, and think he's the worst President ever.
While it's true that W's approval numbers have inched up to 47%. He left office with a 23% approval rating, one of the worst ever, so improving that number wasn't hard. Most presidents are viewed more fondly in the metaphorical rear-view mirror. The fact is, a plurality of Americans still deeply despise the former President - and there are a huge number of reasons why.
Author Steven Rosenfeld, one of those Americans who still hates Bush, even wrote a list of 50 reasons why Americans still despise Bush - though Randi's got her own list too.
And that's a list just off the top of her head.
Dylan Matthews, Ezra Klein, and the chart-loving wonks at Wonkblog prefer to look back at W's presidency with charts, and let the facts speak for themselves. For example, according to the independent watchdog organization Freedom House, George W. Bush's war in Iraq to nominally "free" the Iraqi people has never been a complete success - and Wonkblog charted the proof.
Of course, if you think Pres. George W. Bush was better at domestic concerns than foreign affairs, you've obviously forgotten this other chart from Wonkblog:
Of course, we'll never see any explanation for any of these failures at the President George W. Bush library.
There are also a few other things you won't see at the George W. Bush Presidential library, a list compiled Asawin Suebsaeng at Mother Jones. Here's a couple of our favorites from his list of things you won't find:
Bush's Pre-Invasion Plan for Governing Post-War Iraq Because it didn't really exist.
Evidence of WMDs in Iraq Same reason as number 1), though this is video we bet they won't show at the library either.
The fact is, even if President George W. Bush is the kind of guy you'd want to drink a beer with [Except he doesn't drink!], and even if he wasn't dumb [but he was], he was still a crappy President.
Read more: http://www.randirhodes.com/pages/rrnews.html?feed=393046&article=11226936#ixzz2RYDgYMdz
http://www.randirhodes.com/pages/rrnews.html?feed=393046&article=11226936
Yes, George W. Bush Was a Terrible President, and No, He Wasn’t Smart
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2013/04/bush-terrible-president-also-not-a-smart-man.html
Joan Walsh is an excellent spokesperson for progressives - very often on MSNBC
nixon destroyed America's respect for the presidency - with a sneer
reagan put the powell memo deregulation/pro 1% on full throttle - with a smile
bush destroyed the world's respect for America - with a smirk & a giggle
I have no doubt that all history books, maybe in as little as 10-20 years from now will not only proclaim bush as the worst president ever, but will clearly show that nothing has damaged America as much as his presidency ( unless you include the civil war )
We must do four things to reverse the damage -
make sure an R never gets into the White House
make sure Ds win the house in 2014
make sure Harry Reid gets rid of the filibuster
pressure congress to pass HJR29
As explained above: Realize we are being played by the 1% to disengage, surrender and abandon our democracy and basically sabotage ourselves.
The last thing "they" want us to do is Participate, Organize and Wield our awesome democratic power! SO LET's DO IT!!