Forum Post: OWS: Where is our focus? Who is our audience? Let's think about it.
Posted 13 years ago on Nov. 3, 2011, 4:14 p.m. EST by levelheaded1
(8)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
Okay, guys, here's some straight-talk from a true believer:
With the winter months coming along, this movement needs to think about WHERE it is going, what tangible GOALS it has, and the AUDIENCE we need to be reaching with these messages. We have acquired global media attention. We have the support of the general populous of the world. This is the most powerful weapon we have acquired so far. Now, how can we harness this power for ACTUAL CHANGE? What is the strategy? As much as I would love to believe that people are committed enough to occupy in sub-freezing temperatures, the realist in me has come to understand that while ideal, the concept is improbable. The spokes council is a great start. We need to use that outlet to apply pressure to the people responsible for enforcing change.
I call to the stand a parent/child metaphor. Imagine, for a moment, you are in a grocery store. In this grocery store, there is a child terrorizing the customers and employees. The child is grabbing everything within arms length, destroying displays, creating messes on the floor, and eating all of the food samples. He is a nuisance, perhaps dangerous, and creating problems much larger than himself. This makes you angry, and you realize you need to do something about it. So, you attract the attention of everyone you can; "Hey, did you see that kid? We really should stop him, he is causing a lot of problems." You focus on the child so that you can alert the attention of those around you to help them become aware of the problem. However, once everyone there is informed as to what is happening, it is important to shift primary focus. "Where is his parent?" The child should be held responsible for his actions, but crucial to the reformation of this individual are the parents, since they create and enforce the rules the child lives by. And after all, this kid was having a great time in that grocery store. He may have felt a little guilty knowing that people were more aware of what he was up to, but if he's able to get his hands on enough candy bars without repercussion...kids will be kids. That one's coming back for more trouble.
In this application, the child in the global grocery store is Wall Street. OWS has done an incredible job using this cesspool of corporate greed and injustice to attract attention to a necessary issue. However, these are not the "people" who will affect the change. As pessimistic as it sounds, "they" aren't going to care how many people occupy "their" street, and as the winter comes and people's flames start to cool off, so to speak, it will become that much easier to ignore the issue. UNLESS...we shift our focus. The parents are the legislators. They control the rules, they established corporate personhood, and they are the only ones who can take it away. Will corporations cease in the madness before "they" are forced? No. "They" will always hide behind regulations. If "they" cared about the REAL people "they" were hurting, this would not be an issue today. Unless we pressure legislators to change the rules of the game, Occupy Wall Street will become the biggest fizzle-out in the history of modern Capitalism.
TO THE SPOKES COUNCIL OF OWS: DO NOT LET THIS HAPPEN. CREATE AND DISSEMINATE FORMAL GOALS AND A SHIFT OF FOCUS. USE THE POWER THAT HAS BEEN CREATED.
OCCUPY CORPORATE PARENTHOOD. OCCUPY WASHINGTON.
You guys desperately need some leadership and organization of some kind.
I guess I'm a member of 'mainstream America', and had a positive opinion of OWS until I decided to actually learn about it and came here. But looking at this website, you just seem like a naive, completely disorganized, slightly dangerous rabble.
The organizations you are fighting against are not stupid. They are organized and adept and you are not. They could re-direct or manipulate OWS right now with almost no effort.
I think your point is valid. This movement is different than anything we have seen recently, because it harkens back, essentially, to the method by which this country was founded: a group of people with no real leadership taking off across the sea for something better. That, like this, will be a process. I am well-aware of the intelligence of the American elite, and that a purely Marxist approach would be futile if not immature; after all, they manipulated the rules of the game in such a way that all of this happened without our awareness. However, I disagree that OWS could be controlled with no effort. It has, in fact, been proven to be false in Oakland, if you would choose to follow [even if I do take pretty severe issue with their methods, they have demonstrated that this movement is a force to be reckoned with]. This country still has laws on the books protecting the rights of people, and even if this title has sometimes been confused with corporate entities, as long as real people have something legitimate to say and an audience to say it to, they have every right to be there, and no amount of corporate buy-off can change that. Now that there is leadership, however, they need to act quickly so as not to lose the power of the audience they have worked so hard to attract.
the one thing these psychos are afraid of is the light of day. The don't want their deeds exposed. see wikileaks. see bradley manning.
much can be done over the winter to uncover how the 'system' works and is worked. an educated populace is needed.
in the meantime, the call should be to end all human suffering caused by us wars of aggression. follow the money trail to see who benefits from endless and senseless wars. these are the same who control you now.
if not, you can replace americans in those pictures you see of depravity, hunger and disease around the globe.
YES. Thank you. I'm glad that people are talking about this aspect of the protests and to me it is huge. I was around during the Vietnam war protests and saw first hand how much confusion and disorder is caused when fringe elements who are just looking for a way to incite violence and vent their rage basically nullify any good that people are trying to do. Something needs to happen to clarify the theme of peaceful protest to any wannabees out there who get involved in the movement and don't know what it stands for. Just looking around on the internet it is easy to see the disrespect for OWS coming from many quarters and not just trolls and haters. For example, live streaming could be improved. It's a wonderful thing. But people's perceptions of the movement are often formed right there. I've seen the comments of people who go on live streaming and the running commentary is about Dungeons and Dragons or who got drunk that night and other inane stuff. OK I can deal with that, I don't have a problem with it, I understand. It's comic relief, whatever. But there are others out there who DON'T understand and who are looking to see what this movement is all about. I'm just saying. If they tune in in the middle of the night, what are they going to hear and see? The whole world, is indeed, watching.
It is to refreshing to hear this kind of feedback from someone who had "been there" for some of the most in/famous social movements in US history. Confusion and disorder are indeed the Achilles heel of these sorts of movements, but this is far too important to allow such pettiness to overcome. Will these leaders be effective? Can they identify the effective targets and messages? Time will tell...
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I usually don't read these long posts. But I'm sure I support whatever you said. If it's lots of words, I assume it's serious and you know what your talking about.
haha. Thanks stevo. I challenge you: read, educate yourself, then form your own opinion! It will take, like, seven minutes, and is very empowering.
So, what are you going to tell the legislators to do? I haven't heard a unified, realistic idea yet. OWS is a crowd of angry people. Period. Most seem to hate capitalism, but what's the alternative? On the one extreme you have capitalism, on the other pure Marxism, where everyone makes the same salary, no one owns private property, the state takes care of it all. Between you have degrees of socialism and communism. Where does OWS see the United State here? What exactly would you tell congress to do?
Also, as a long-term ideal: campaign finance reform, including the inability for any for- or non-profit company to contribute to a political campaign under any circumstance, for any reason. That would be a great eventual goal. Attainable and Tangible need to be the mantras of this group.
This is my point; it's not really up to me, or you, or to any one angry, capitalist-hating person or sub-group. This process will come in steps. The first was to attract attention. Check. However, if you believe in this movement, it's up to the public, and the recently-elected leaders of this movement [the Spokes Council] have taken on a HUGE responsibility here. They must now communicate with their public to figure out what people want, and while "fuck the corporations, we're pissed off and not gonna take it," is a great start, it is by no means a conclusion. Change is about timing, and NOW IS THE TIME. Windows of opportunity are small and quick to close; and the one thing that has been echoed across the valley of doubt has been "who are their leaders?" Now we have them. They need to act quickly to maintain the attention, and [I cannot stress this enough] EFFECTIVELY so that we reach the right audience. I have begun to propose the ending of corporate personhood as a starting demand. I personally feel as though the 99% would agree. What is your suggestion to save this occupation? Think through your anger; that emotion is the fastest route to losing a rational argument, and therefore everything that has been struggled for.
So, I asked about exact ideas on what to do and you reply that the point is that we have this window of opportunity. Yeah, I get you want to "fuck the corporations", but that's it? OWS has been in existence now for almost 2 months. I haven't seen a specific list of demands, a way forward, a manifesto. OWS needs a unified idea, else the movement will fall apart as the first winter winds come whipping into lower Manhattan.
I think you and I may be making the same point from two different angles. Mine is from the standpoint of "this movement is important, but so far somewhat misguided," whereas yours appears to be "there aren't any demands, so there isn't a point." It is up to us, informed citizens with rational ideas to disseminate what we think demands should be. We have to collaborate to determine what our manifesto is. As I have mentioned previously; I believe the revocation of corporate personhood to be an essential first step. Yes, I have also reiterated the window of opportunity. However, it is the intersection of these two points that is important. Had you more carefully read, you would have noticed that I am, in fact, NOT a fan of the "fuck the corporations" mantra; that I see it as an instigation as opposed to a conclusion. If I were in charge of the Occupations, I would put out a publication of the effects of corporate personhood in order to inform the public. I would then begin to distribute information that we were shifting focus to put demands out to the legislators, and urge the occupiers to respond with what they think those demands should be. [since I have a feeling I would get a response from you about how, exactly, I think that should be accomplished; I would suggest the methods already being used: forums, email, etc., in addition to stations set up with an organizer at each occupation] After collecting and evaluating this information, the leaders of the spokes council would draft a physical list of the most important demand/s and publish it, directed at the governmental agencies responsible for regulation. There you have it, my specific next step. So...are you a troll, or have you something constructive to offer?
Good analysis on the two points... And no, I am not a troll. I would like something constructive to come out of all this. Not sure I understand the "corporate personhood" but agree you have to put more demands on legislators.
A lot of the talk here seems to be around corporate greed and a corrupt political system. At the top of the list of demands should be abolishing all special tax loopholes for corporations. To me, this is a core issue. Only when the special interests and their vehicle for buying power is eliminated can we have a sane discussion of what tax rates should be. You can argue all day to raise taxes on "the rich and corporations", but as long as they have a mechanism to cheat the system, it will all fall back on the middle class.
jayp74, your points about OWS targeting and lawful strategy are correct. I keep asking how any one can expect any success without invoking the needed authority to meet the demands. No on EVER from OWS has come back with an affirmative specifically to that, despite they say they are all leaders, although many others agree that article 5 is the obvious answer.------
Need critical thinking NOW on this matter because there is no other way to gain the needed authority.
Think about what focus Shamar Thomas would recomend.------
Think about what he would say when asked to defend the constitution using itself, Article 5 with this strategy http://algoxy.com/ows/strategyofamerica.html .
Article. V.
The Congress, whenever two thirds of both Houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose Amendments to this Constitution, or, on the Application of the Legislatures of two thirds of the several States, shall call a Convention for proposing Amendments, which, in either Case, shall be valid to all Intents and Purposes, as Part of this Constitution, when ratified by the Legislatures of three fourths of the several States, or by Conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other Mode of Ratification may be proposed by the Congress; Provided that no Amendment which may be made prior to the Year One thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any Manner affect the first and fourth Clauses in the Ninth Section of the first Article; and that no State, without its Consent, shall be deprived of its equal Suffrage in the Senate.-------
Article V conference, Mark Meckler Lawrence Lessig at harvard 9/25/11-video comments http://vimeo.com/31464745
I challenge you to break this concept down for the people who don't inherently understand it or desire to do the research you have implied is necessary through your posting of a ten-minute video and link to a pages-long blog post, if it is indeed something that you care about sharing. I acknowledge that your concept is probably intelligent, relevant, and applicable. However, this movement is about social inclusion; therefore, I find it odd that your response to a forum post would be to copy and paste an article from the constitution and link some multimedia commentary, without bothering to explain your motives, intentions, or ideas to the people you would hope to reach. The internet is filled with mindless clutter, and without good reason, no one has time to sort through what you deem to be important in order for your voice to be heard without having to actually use your own words, no matter how good your sources. Think about it.
I usually post asking to discover if anyone is interested in seeing the movement gain the authority it needs to see that the demands are met.-----
At times, I rely on a simple question to demonstrate what you claim is missing, which you didn't answer.
levelheaded1 wrote: this movement needs to think about WHERE it is going,END-------
Correct, is it going to reach for the authority to meet its demands or is it going to whine impotently about all the abuse from the nasty corps sleeping with the gov.
Article 5 convention NOW! We have NEVER, in our lives, known a constitutional government in America.
http://algoxy.com/poly/emergency_powers_statutes.html
What do you mean when you say this? I am interested in the Article 5 convention concept. Can you explain what this means and your suggestions, exactly?
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