Forum Post: Will The Real Christians Please Stand Up!
Posted 12 years ago on Dec. 8, 2011, 10:11 p.m. EST by imhotep3223
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I have a simple question, that maybe can be answered by someone in this forum. Please tell me , why are there still republicans in this country after the Bush reign and the last four years; proving conclusively that Republicans....(The majority of them) fight against the poor, fight for the rich showing their greed and lack of any amount of charity and compassion is without apology. The rhetoric they use is if your poor, then your lazy. Having read the New Testament many times, that sentiment was never Jesus Christ's sentiment. Its quite clear that most Republicans in office are faux Christians, posing for the masses of christians that look for leaders that have christians best interests at heart. For a true christian emulates Christ's teachings. I get fake politicians, what i don't get is the insanity of the blind faith of the christians that follow these false christians because they simply say " Hey i'm a christian". Sorry but a real christian would ACT like a christian and fight corruption, stand for the poor, and equality, for all the children of god, not just those that could pay them the most money. So, my question stands why do the right-wing nation, people of mostly christian faith continue to follow to the demise of this country, men and women (Republicans) that would would sell their soul and our country for 20 coins of silver? On a side note i think all parties are corrupted, but my question pertains to the followers of the GOP, Fox News and those saying that OWS is just crazy hippies.
Christianity HAS ALWAYS been about MORAL-SUPERIORITY.
Liberalism has always been about FREEDOM.
Folks that like to have fun like to dance and screw.
The moral-superior HATE FUN.
There has always been a WAR between those who want to have FUN and those that want to control the lives of others.
This is why the RIGHT wants to control your dick, your pussy, your life, your child, and your money.
Christianity appeals to right-wing control freaks the way SHIT appeals to Fly's.
Another Question?
The WHOLE basis of CHRISTIANITY is based on DOGMATISM the idea that MY WAY OF LIFE IS RIGHT and YOURS is wrong.
Most eastern religions understand that we're all the same, but American Christians believe they're GODS CHOSEN PEOPLE, they believe all kinds of DUMB-SHIT, this is why the self-righteous-right tend to be IDIOTS, because only idiots believe this shit.
Lastly the catholic church and men like George Bush Senior, have know for 1,000's of years that religion lets you control the masses, and thus the right-wing control freaks LOVE RELIGION.
I agree with most of what you said. But I think it's important to note that the word "Christian" is itself a misnomer. For almost 2000 years now, CHRISTIANITY HAS MOSTLY BETRAYED CHRIST.
Much of Christian teaching - for example, the emphasis on SIN and the neurotic sexual guilt - constitutes a gross distortion of what Jesus himself taught.
Yeshua - the real, original, historic Jesus - LOVED to share a meal with the poor, the prostitutes and other outcasts and LOVED TO LAUGH. At least two books have been written on his sense of humor. Ya gotta love a guy whose first miracle consisted in changing water into wine for a young couple celebrating their sexual union through marriage!!!
So, as the song goes, "Jesus is just alright with me... oh yeah!" More and more people call themselves "Christics" as opposed to "Christians" - a Christic being someone who aspires to walk and dance and sing with Jesus. THE REAL JESUS, not that grotesque caricature of Jesus that the "Irreligious Right" has been trying for decades to ram down our throats!
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True Christianity is about an individual's PERSONAL relationship with God, not controlling or judging others. Anything can be perverted. Anything in this world that can be twisted,misunderstood and misrepresented, can, and will be. You named yourself owsleader yet here you are spewing hate and ignorance that you proclaim to be against. I wonder that you had the arrogance to name yourself that when you clearly are not leader material?
Baby Jeebus loves me this I know, cuz MaryS tells me so...
When Jesus was asked "What does it mean to be a christian?" He responded "To live like me, To do as I do"
Now we all know well, that in today's USA if you lived your life and spoke like Jesus you would spend your life in prison.
Modern USA Christianity is not Christ-Like in anyway, its all about business.
Now my turn to ask a question, you have called your self the 'Mary", I want to know, ... would you feed the baby-Jeebus a mickyD happy-meal? Tell me real?
Nice that you can just group all Christians together into one tidy package like that. .
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You are delusional at best. Christains believe that our Jewish brothers and sisters are The Chosen people. It is clearly supported by the fact that Jesus was Jewish. Christians believe in salvation thru faith in Jesus Christ. Everything you have ranted about in your post is fiction and insulting to all faiths.
no real points....
Modern Israel is not the chosen people of God. ... to be understood is that modern Israel is not the Israel of scripture, they are not the descendants of Abraham. ...
If Americans and Jews are God's chosen people, why are Bush-43 and Cheney the mass-murdering psychopathic torturers they were. ...
Its well established that the folks who run A I P A C & USA-Zionism are not descendants of Abraham
I did not equate Todays Israel to the Jewish faith. What does Bush and Cheney have to do with Christianity and the Jewish faith? If the torture of terror suspects is what you are referring to, that is another discussion. We are in a dangerous world since 9/11 and to protect innocent Americans and others from acts of terror, difficult choices must be made.
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I think you need to get real here: very few Americans are the descendants of Abraham; for virtually all of us this is an adopted religion.
The difference is that we chose God, not the other way around. You have the same choice to make.
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"There has always been a WAR between those who want to have FUN and those that want to control the lives of others."
I think both sides have demonstrated their desire to control the lives of others. The "right" wants to control your personal life (who you can marry, what kind of chemicals you can ingest, etc.) while the "left" wants to control your economic life (private property, how much of the money you work for you will be allowed to keep, etc.). It is human nature to want to control the lives of other people.
"Christianity HAS ALWAYS been about MORAL-SUPERIORITY."
C'mon, both sides try to claim the moral high ground. The Christians say it is immoral for you to marry your same-sex partner. The "Liberals" say it is immoral for McDonald's to give that toy to children. In fact, isn't this whole movement about morality (the morality of the 1%)?
"Lastly the catholic church and men like George Bush Senior, have know for 1,000's of years that religion lets you control the masses, and thus the right-wing control freaks LOVE RELIGION."
Religion (whether it is Christianity, Islam, etc.) is only one of the tools humans have used to control the masses.
Note NO where did I ever use the words 'left'. I said LIBERTY, LIBERALISM, ... FREEDOM.
I'm not talking about a binary left or right. That's boring BULLSHIT, there is no left or right. There is only totalitarianism versus freedom.
I'm talking about a DOGMATIC Right, that think's it is absolutely correct 24/7 about everything.
On the other hand there is LIBERTY & FREEDOM.
WRT to mickyD, please stop the shit about toy's, its about people poisoning children. mickyD is not in the toy biz, its in the junk-food biz.
If your only argument in support for poisoning children is mickyD's right to destroy the lives of children that's bullshit, all modern civilizations concur that a child's mind has not developed to make intelligent choices and th mickyD corporation desire to make the child become addicted to fucking junk food. I know that Rush Limbaugh crowd thinks junk-food is manna from heaven, but Rush is an Fat Fucking Asshole, and he's proof that junk-food will fuck your body up.
Thanks for the finality, that USA Christianity is about controlling the stupid masses.
"If your only argument in support for poisoning children is mickyD's right to destroy the lives of children"
You must be confusing me with someone else; I hold no brief for McDonald's and I do not support "poisoning children." I was simply pointing out that this is a moral argument and both sides (whether "liberal" or "left" or whatever you want to call it) try to capture the moral high ground.
"Note NO where did I ever use the words 'left'. I said LIBERTY, LIBERALISM, ... FREEDOM."
Well, you advocate freedom for people to do what you think is right; there is nothing wrong with that. We all advocate selective freedom; the difference is only the things that we think should be permissible (or not). You would deny McDonald's the freedom to give away those little toys; that is fine. You feel (and you have good reason) that it is immoral for McDonald's to give away those toys (or sell burgers to children or whatever). No problem with that, but it is your moral argument to make. (By the way, I would put Applebee's on the list with McD - they practically need a forklift to bring the millions of calories to the table.)
I don't think anyone is advocating FREEDOM, but rather perhaps FREEDOM (the large print giveth and the small print taketh away).
"Thanks for the finality, that USA Christianity is about controlling the stupid masses."
All religions (maybe all social organizations) are about controlling the masses. There are still theocratic societies (look at the Middle East) that demonstrate this quite nicely.
By the way, is it possible these days to have an intelligent conversation without foul language? Those words don't shock anyone anymore, they are just crude. Maybe I'm getting too old.
Error - There was supposed to be an asterisk in my previous comment "I don't think anyone is advocating FREEDOM, but rather perhaps "FREEDOM" (the large print giveth and the small print taketh away)" but it didn't show up and I couldn't edit it. Anyway, you probably know what I mean.
It's not so much that they're control freaks as it is that mass media, education, and government, have become far too derisive and far too intrusive, therefore detrimental to their particular flavor of Jesus. This is an act of defense, not of aggression.
To be liberal or egalitarian is to say nothing at all of religion; many liberals are very religious and many conservatives are virtual atheists.
All of those eastern religions that you mention bow to the Emperor. And that is the one reason we are a "Christian" nation as in "we shall have none other gods before us"; the "Rich shall meet the Poor" (on Judgement Day)... etc etc... it is empowerment; it has empowered the individual to answer to no one but self as "freedom of conscience." And this was a huge advancement in the cultural mindset; ultimately it created America and gave you the freedom, through force of law, to speak publicly.
And since this thing of conscience has so obviously become your focus on the level of antagonist, in your pursuit of pussy and wealth, I must assume you are far more of a "Christian" (whatever that is) than you suspect.
America IS the New Israel; a self declared "Shining City upon a Hill"; it is a light that cannot be hidden .- be my guest, go ahead and try.
Actually, the Jews are the chosen people, they were chosen by God to receive The Ten Commandments.
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they were, until they lost God's favor for their disobedience, & from the Jews that accepted Jesus Christ as the messiah, Christianity was born. The Jews who rejected him, are still waiting for the messiah. True Christians still exist, & still do the same work the Christ commissioned. They are hated the World over by ALL Christian denominations. They use God's name to bear witness, as Jesus was Jehovah's witness to mankind. They will prove to be the New Israel governed by the New Jerusalem. I am not one of them, but they alone have the blessing of the creator, Jehovah God. They are the ones who are from 'every tribe, tongue & nation', as both God & Jesus commanded.., & they spread the news of the kingdom of God through the entire inhabited Earth, & then the end will come. They have almost completed that commission, having reached 236 countries. & They try to live according to his 'Way'.
Are Americans the Chosen People? - David Gordon - Mises Daily 20 Aug 2007 ... They often spoke of America as the New Israel: like the Jews of old, they were now God's chosen people. "In sum: passionate belief in the ... mises.org/daily/2659 - Cached - Similar Americans, God's True Chosen People | Veterans Today 18 Oct 2010 ... 15 Comments for “Americans, God's True Chosen People”. David A. White. October 18, 2010 - 5:12 pm. The choosen people are the ones with ... www.veteranstoday.com/.../americans-gods-true-chosen-peop... - Cached - Similar Are Americans God's Chosen People? | BU Today | Boston University Are Americans God's Chosen People? Live Chat: Andrew Bacevich and Stephen Prothero tonight at 7. 10.27.2010 By Rich Barlow share it! ... www.bu.edu/today/2010/are-americans-god’s-chosen-people/ - Cached - Similar On Being a Chosen People Americans have a tendency to think of themselves as God's chosen people. We are firm believers in individual freedom and human rights. We have a well ... www.lcurve.org/writings/ChosenPeople.htm - Cached - Similar
America are not a race of Christian's, so no. they have never been Gods chosen race. God's new race of chosen people are those who are obedient, & listen to his son as God commanded. 'This is my Son. listen to him'. this was at Jesus' baptism by his cousin, John the baptist. Jesus said 'I do nothing of my own accord, only what I see the father doing. The Govt do not worship Jehovah God the creator, although they do worship 'A God'. Jesus is 'A God', but he is not God almighty. There were only 2 options given either Worship Jehovah God, or worship Satan. They are the only 2 sides of the coin. ALL people were invited to worship God by name, from Cornelius, the 1st gentile to embrace Christianity, down to our day. If the Jews had accepted Jesus Christ as the Messiah, there would have been NO gentiles invited into a covenant relationship with God. Jesus was the new covenant.. It doesn't matter what your previous knowledge of God is, those who come to know him do so by repenting of their sins, which means not committing them any more, & asking for God to forgive those things that we did that bother us still.. It is called undeserved kindness because imperfect humans could NEVER earn forgiveness. It is by the grace of Jehovah, through his Son, The firstborn of ALL creation. Everything else Jesus helped God to create, but Jesus alone was solely created by God. He is a mighty spirit creature, but mankind tends to think of him as a baby. They often don't think that he grew to be a courageous man, that rocked the Jewish system of belief by pointing out that the priests were making their own doctrines which made being obedient hard. Love for God means to obey his commandments, yet his commandments are not burdensome. Every person to ever exist was invited to follow God's laws, & Adam only had the 1, but he didn't do it, so he could not pass on the eternal life God had promised him if he obeyed. those who died without the chance to know God, will be resurrected, & given another chance. Adam will not be though, because he, knowing the consequence of disobedience, did it anyway. But God said 'Be fruitful, become many, & fill the Earth'. Now that that is done, God will destroy the whole system, & implement his own kingdom, with Jesus as king here as he is in heaven, & a world of peace & abundance will follow. God loves all of us. Not just a few. But we do have to try to find out who he is. Jesus came to give God's name, it must be very important.
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Jesus said "I am the way, the truth and the life, no one comes to the father except through me". He claims to be the only way. As the creator of all things seen and unseen, I guess he trumped all other relligous beliefs, and unless He was a lunatic or a liar, he must then be who he claimed to be. Mockers have the only reward they will ever get, that is to live on this earth, but die separated from the creator of all that is seen and unseen. Go ahead, mock and disdain, but one day soon, you will give an account, and you will weep and wail, unable to Change the destiny you have chosen.
Perhaps if you would read farther down, you might learn that the application of Christianity as practiced in the USA, had NOT a GOD-DAMN thing to do with the teachings of Baby-Jeebus as he taught in the Gospels.
The USA's Christianity is to Worship the God Almighty Dollar, and son is Satan.
It is probably not worth a discussion with you, but you have no idea how Christians practice in this country. I have no idea what you think "USA's Christianity" is, for that matter. Do you mean church goers? Do you mean people that are registered as a member of a particular church or denomination? I am talking about followers of Jesus. Period. As far as controlling the lives of others, I could care less what "others" do as long as they don't hurt me or anyone else. Why would any Christian expect someone who is not a Christian to live by the teachings of Jesus? Our church has a food shelf, helps the down trodden and houses homeless. It requires people spending overnight at the church and feeding people meals, a real time commitment. But, whatever, you have your stereotype and nothing I or anyone else says will stop you from thinking all Christians worship money, or are Jerry Fallwell types. Live in your bigotry and stereotype.
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What the above say's is that ameriKKKan Christians think they're GOD's CHOSEN PEOPLE and this is a well established fact.
Are Americans the Chosen People? - David Gordon - Mises Daily 20 Aug 2007 ... They often spoke of America as the New Israel: like the Jews of old, they were now God's chosen people. "In sum: passionate belief in the ... mises.org/daily/2659 - Cached - Similar Americans, God's True Chosen People | Veterans Today 18 Oct 2010 ... 15 Comments for “Americans, God's True Chosen People”. David A. White. October 18, 2010 - 5:12 pm. The choosen people are the ones with ... www.veteranstoday.com/.../americans-gods-true-chosen-peop... - Cached - Similar Are Americans God's Chosen People? | BU Today | Boston University Are Americans God's Chosen People? Live Chat: Andrew Bacevich and Stephen Prothero tonight at 7. 10.27.2010 By Rich Barlow share it! ... www.bu.edu/today/2010/are-americans-god’s-chosen-people/ - Cached - Similar On Being a Chosen People Americans have a tendency to think of themselves as God's chosen people. We are firm believers in individual freedom and human rights. We have a well ... www.lcurve.org/writings/ChosenPeople.htm - Cached - Similar
Liberalism is about FREEDOM? How about San Francisco libs banning Happy Meal toys at McDonalds because they say it causes childhood obesity. What's free about banning toys in Happy Meals? That's not just an anecdotal story. The very idea that the government knows better how to run our lives than ourselves is not freedom. You are looking at the world upside down my friend.
"Liberalism is about FREEDOM? How about San Francisco libs banning Happy Meal toys at McDonalds because they say it causes childhood obesity."
Did you intend to sound like a petty whiny little kid when you said that??
I disagree with the law, but you can't deny that bitching and whining about McDonalds having to charge separately (5 cents) for a Happy Meal toy only proves how pathetic and out of touch your worldview is.
If you disagree with the law, how can you think my view is out of touch? You don't honestly believe I wrote all that above because I was angry about a 5 cent toy do you?
What right-wing bullshit.
OK, I'll bite cuz its not a troll its a legitimate question.
Cuz the fucking FOOD at mcDonalds is a fucking poison, because Micky-D is marketing its food as a TOY in a child's mind, but this SHIT is not food.
FUCK micky-D, why you protecting their corporate fascist ASS?
A Happy-Meal attracts the minds of children and parents buy this shit, most people give into their childrens demands for LOVE, mickdD-INC knows this shit.
Why NOT make the happy-meal healthy?? Then it not a fucking problem, but NO, the mickyD knows exactly what its doing, its like fucking OPIUM they want the toddlers to get addicted to fucking poison.
Just another example of FASCISM, the corp-state knows if Toddler grows up on happy-meals he'll look and think like fat-ass rush-limbaugh, the left don't want that thing,... Compeche?
Thanks for changing the subject, I'll take it back.
WOULD THE VIRGIN MARY HAVE FED baby-JEEBUS a happy-meal? A BIG FUCK NO, the little brat would have never made it to ten years of age.
If they made the Happy Meals healthy, the SF libs wouldn't drive through and their sales would drop. Even if they put a fuckin gyro-copter in the happy meal box, if the shit was healthy, people would drive to Burger King. Its freedom of choice. I don't feed my child fast food. And I see ads just like everybody else. By the government getting involved, it's telling parents they should trust what the government says over their own judgement. Are you saying people aren't smart enough to make their own decisions? You are losing this argument my friend.
People are plastic. Corporations know this and use psychologists when developing their marketing. Children are being conditioned to eat poison.
Why not call the package "Happy Mushroom" get on with it, a steady diet of this shit when young and you'll grow up "Kept in the Dark, and Fed Shit".
The only problem I see is that our warriors are going to be lard asses, who is going to fight our crusades, if all ameriKKKans have the physique of Rush Limbaugh? If their minds fail to develop because they were poisoned as children? For what purpose does poisoning toddlers provide National Security for the Police State?
Perhaps in Secret the Praetorians don't poison their own children??
Maybe only the left are being forced to poison their children, and this is why SF put up the good war against the Corporate Fascism?
I know at this point I'm talking shit, but this whole thing about poison baby's drives me crazy, when I see me wife feed that shit to my son, it makes me fucking angry, so this issue has hit home. The kid wants the toy, the wife wants the kid happy, but I want him healthy, and nobody cares what I think :<
This thing about marketing poison to kids is really fucking evil.
I understand your point, and I totally agree that marketing is manipulative and evil. However, that does not give the government the right to tell me what I can and can't eat. If enough people stopped eating at McDonald's because of their manipulative practices, then McDonald's would change their business model.
The problem with your argument is you put too much trust in the government. And as we see in the headlines everyday, the government is just as untrustworthy as corporations. Corporate manipulation should inspire American's to stop patronizing those establishments, and they will stop, they won't stop because the government outlaws a toy in a happy meal.
If McDonald's was putting chemicals that were proven to cause brain damage in your child's happy meal and saying that it was smart powder on tv should the government be allowed to step in and protect the child then?
Sure government should step in if there is poison. Think of government regulation like a fire in your home. A small fire in your fireplace heats your home, and cooks your food on the stove. As long as the fire is controlled and remains small, its useful. But once the fire gets too large to handle, it burns your house down and is destructive.
It's the same with our government. This is what we have with our current government, it's getting way too big, and infiltrating our lives. It started with BUSH. YES, BUSH grew government way too much. And Obama's doing the same thing.
Do you agree with this?
Yes I do but I know for a fact that the government isn't a monolith. It is not like everyone who works for the government is on the same team conspiring against the non government people. Some times when the government wants more power to do something it is actually in our best interest like when they stop companies from brainwashing and poisoning our children. I find that just as important as some of the things you think are necessary the government participate in.
I wish we could all agree to stop the real government problems of overstepping its boundaries like with the NDAA and support measures like preventing children from being conditioned by soulless corporations.
The issue I have with demonizing corporations is that the very definition of a corporation is greed. Being angry at corporate 'greed' is like being angry that water is wet. Greed is what a corporation is. Without greed, a corporation dies and gets eaten by another one. But that's not the problem. Corporate greed in America's free market is what has created the amazing society we enjoy. It's why you and me can sit staring at computer screens at 11:30 at night, rather than having to forage for food in a desert.
The issue is that enough of our government have allowed themselves to become morally corrupt and allow the the corporations to break/bend laws that our founding fathers put in place. For their own greed. We have a corrupt government extracting tax money that should otherwise be going to helping fellow citizens. Corrupt Government is the problem, not the notion of a corporation.
You made no relevant points and continue to paint the government as a monolith. The government is merely a tool. Sometimes that tool is in the hands of corrupt, selfish individuals. Sometimes in the hands of corporations themselves. Sometimes that tool is in the hands of somebody who actually cares about human beings and has worked their whole lives to try and change things for the better.
I understand what a corporation is. That is exactly why certain regulations to curb their greed are necessary.
The government has taken financial control of the financial industry (have you seen a lot of Ally bank commercials lately? One example. Ally bank is funded by tax payer money; bailouts) the auto industry (GM is now 40% owned by the Federal gov), and soon Healthcare. Less and less industries will be run by private individuals. How can you argue the government is not a monolith?
BTW, governments collect their money through taxes, if you don't pay taxes you go to prison, or they bust down you door with guns.
Corporations collect your money through YOUR choice to buy their products. They can't send agents to take your money. BIG DIFFERENCE.
I don't have any money so they can't take mine. I am in debt to private corporations and if I don't pay them what do you think will happen to me? Will they say 'oh thats ok we aren't the government so you are free to choose when and if you will pay'? No they will use the government to take money from me and if I don't pay I will eventually go to prison. The government is not a monolith. Even the third reich was not a monolith. Himmler and Göring and other leading Nazis were all using their rank to fight over power in Germany in order to create large fortunes and hold influence over people. The same happens with different government agencies whether it is the IRS or the CIA and DoD.
I know people who have not paid their taxes and they are not in prison. There is actually no legitimate law that says that you have to pay federal income tax which is why many people don't pay them and some even eventually end up working for the current administration. I have seen a few documentaries (I can't remember which ones specifically) where former IRS employees explain that they could find no one there that could point them to the specific law that says that individuals have to pay this tax on their wages. Some have left the agency for this reason and never paid those taxes ever again.
"I am in debt to private corporations and if I don't pay them what do you think will happen to me? Will they say 'oh thats ok we aren't the government so you are free to choose when and if you will pay'? No they will use the government to take money from me and if I don't pay I will eventually go to prison."
Actually, that is incorrect. In the US, debt in and of itself is a civil matter, not a criminal one. Your options are to settle with the creditor (for some agreed upon fraction of the debt), come up with a payment plan that allows you to pay it over a longer time, or declare bankruptcy. If a debt collector is telling you that you will go to jail, contact a lawyer because that person may be committing a crime. However, if you simply ignore the debt, and ignore any court orders the creditor obtains, you could potentially be jailed for contempt of court (not simply for owing money). But that is pretty unusual. The creditor can go to court and get liens and wage garnishment and things like that, but this is tedious, costly and time consuming for them. If it is a relatively small amount, it isn't worth it to go after (for example, someone owes my business $4000 and I am probably just going to write it off. If it were $40,000, that would be different).
"I am being fucked over by private loan companies while the cost of living is going up and up due to speculators fucking with the markets and the collapse of the world economy due to the super mega elite hoarding their wealth."
If you don't pay a private corporation, you would declare Ch.7 bankruptcy and wipe your debts clear. Of course, if you have no assets or money, how are you getting any services to begin with? So you believe that just because you exist, you are entitled to receive the same benefits as someone who works hard for a living. I guess I will lose arguments with you all, because I'll never convince you that you can't lay around in your own filth all day and expect to earn a living and deserve everything a hard working person acquires. What a sad world we live in when the majority of American's are beginning to think as you do. We are truly doomed as a country. Hoo ray China. I can't wait to have my 7 year old child enslaved in a work camp. So sad that you think China and Russia and communism is a good thing. Have you noticed that pictures of Russia and China, everyone is wearing really big coats indoors? Do you realize most buildings have no central heating because the country is so poor because of their communist society? Ahh, what's the use. I'm wasting my time.
Fuck you. You dont know shit. You people make me sick. You want so badly to believe that everyone is robbing you of your precious tax dollars but you are too stupid to realize that most of that goes to illegal wars and locking up drug offenders. Did you ever notice the budget of the pentagon and they can't even protect the country from a handful of teenagers? They "misplace" on average $2 trillion a year and you have the nerve to complain about someone like me? Just because I don't have assets you think I just sit around being lazy collecting welfare? Eat a dick. I work my ass off. I have never taken any of your money asshole. I am being fucked over by private loan companies while the cost of living is going up and up due to speculators fucking with the markets and the collapse of the world economy due to the super mega elite hoarding their wealth. Your 7 year old will probably end up with cancer or go insane from all the poison in the world while you complain about imaginary work camps. You need to get off your Russia and China fixation. It is fucking pathetic and a sign that you are gullible as hell. Who told you that anyone wants to imitate these countries? Those countries are run by criminal syndicates. Mafias who hold the private capital and keep the decision making out of the hands of the people and they can't legitimately elect officials.
Nobody is telling you as adult what to eat, what we're saying is that CORPORATIONS can't manipulate the minds of toddlers.
What part of this does your christian brain block?
Those asking for MORE Government are asking for MORE Prisons, Cops, and Hangmen. All totalitarianism comes from Government.
Protecting toddlers from sociopaths is a good thing, its probably one of the ONLY good things, ... but as you yourself said, this IDEA didn't come from the GOVERMENT it came as a demand from the people of SF, as the GOVERMENT is already in the pocket of the CORPORATION.
What about the recent decision by government to categorize school pizza as a vegetable? This was done because of massive lobbying by the dairy farmers. Don't you see that the government is the problem? Why can't you see that?
"What about the recent decision by government to categorize school pizza as a vegetable? "
It didn't exist. Stop relying on 24 hour news networks alone for your news.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/post/did-congress-declare-pizza-as-a-vegetable-not-exactly/2011/11/20/gIQABXgmhN_blog.html
Did I ever NOT say that the US government is the beast? That the USA was long ago co-opted by BUSH/HEARST, that the USA today is NATIONA-SOCIALISM, where do you get off to suggest that I love the god damn fucking government, I want this government to DIE.
Corn farmers got the US government to designate Corn as rocket-fuel, ... so fucking what? What do you do when your not changing the subject.
I have a question for you now, as I have answered all your questions.
Your a good christian man I can only presume, cuz you write like a fucking right-winger, how do you defend your governments murder of US citizens? As a christian I want to know?
Are you talking about the murder of Anwar al-Awlaki? I don't identify with this government. And I agree with Ron P. on that. It was illegal what Obama did. Every post I've ever made on here is trying to persuade members here to stop their misplaced hatred of corporations (99% of them are individual Americans filing as S-corporations, and are no different from you) and focus on the real problem, our corrupt government. BOTH SIDES!!!! Focusing on corporations is a waste of time. Corporations operate within the laws created by our government.
Almost every person on here labels people conservatives, right-wingers, trolling around. BOTH SIDES are corrupt. Why do you label right or left, when they are working together to extract money from the US treasury? Every post I say both sides are corrupt, and I'm labeled a right-wing conservative. Just because I believe in personal freedom of choice doesn't mean I'm republican. And if it does, does that mean that Democrats don't believe in freedom of choice?
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"f they made the Happy Meals healthy, the SF libs wouldn't drive through and their sales would drop."
So now you suggest that the same people making the laws are the exact same people that go to McDonalds for Happy Meal toys??
I thought the same thing
I still get toys when I order one... good thing I'm not in SF
There you go Necro! See, the toy helps Necro make the decision to grab a happy meal on the way to school! Good for Necro. And Necro may be a fit, trim guy who plays fuseball on the weekends. Why should the government be allowed to keep a fun toy out of Necro's hands?
Honestly, I detest McD's. But that's not the point. Some other dude wants to shovel that shit in his mouth(and even I have my moments of weakness) who am I? Are the toys a selling point?? Sure. But is it the kids fault for wanting it or the parents fault for buying it?? You want your kids to have a stupid little cheap toy, go to a slot machine or Walmart. BTW, Pizza as a vegetable?! That is fucking awesome!!
Thanks for proving that liberalism is always about lying, exaggerating, and being a pompous moron.
if the vast majority of Americans controlled their dicks, their pussies, their lives, their children, and their money, we wouldn't be in the mess we're currently IN. Idiot.
Jerry Falwell was a liberal?
No. Jerry Falwell is part of the vast majority of Americans.
So you are saying a vast majority of Americans are hyprocites? And my mistake,,I meant Jim Baker,,,Reverand
good point, that the right really believes that if they can keep the left from breeding then there will only be right-wingers and all can live in paradise,
DO YOU REALLY BELIEVE THIS SHIT?
This is what I'm talking about this guy really believes that the right-wing is superior.
Furthermore this GUY hates LIBERALISM, but our founding fathers said "Give me liberty or give me death",
This guy hates liberalism ( liberty ), but he wants to deny us life.
What more can I say? Is he for real or just a fucking troll?
'Justthefacts' I do agree with all that you write, but why now are you hating liberalism, I always took you for a libertarian? That's the problem with forum is the avatars change position as often as dictators change where the sleep, which just confirms what we already know that 90% of the people here, are only here to play fucking mind games.
I can love "liberty" without loving "liberalism" just like you can love conserving things without loving "conservatism". If you want to insinuate that the words mean the exact same thing do it somewhere else. I'm hoping that at least everyone here is smart enough to know they are different.
Don't use illogical arguments. No one wants to deny you life. Sheesh.
What "avatars" are you talking about?
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Matthew 10:34-37, Mark 11:12-14 & 11:20, John 7:8-10. Are these examples of how Christians should act? Creating strife over ideology? Destroying nature when it dosen't satisfy you? Lying to engage in covert activity? Are most Republicans known to act in these ways?
All religions have their hypocrits and zealots who interpret their doctrine for their own benefit. Christianity is only the most prevalent one in this country. Any study of the Bible will radily demonstrate why, I think: not even the church scholars can agree on how to interpret it, so how can those who don't even read it or read it through the eyes of faith rather than with the eyes of objective scholaship? I've studied early Christianity and the formation of the Bible for 20 years, and, to be honest, I can't come up with a unified doctrine from it either. And all it takes is to look at the number of different "demonination" (read: sects) to understand that no one else can to boot.
With that said, one of my greatest fears is that we are very possibly headed for a Fundamentalist Christian Taliban-style government in this country where only "right-believers" (the definition of "orthodox") will be fully vested citizens. Those who unfortunately and incorrectly think this country was formed as a "Christian nation" seek to return it to their kind of Christianity. The problem is, since there is no single coherent Christianity, what will that nation look like?
deGrene, re: the second part of your statement. I believe many Christians are realizing they were kidnapped by the propaganda of the Republican Party and are sick of it, are leaving in droves. A couple of good sites to learn how more moderate and progressive Christians are thinking: http://www.sojo.net/ and http://www.thechristianleft.org/. It's not the be all and end all but a great place for intelligent, reasonable Christians to start.
thanks for adding.
Thank you for the sites. They are very interesting. I especially like Anne Coulter being referred to as “godless.” I got a laugh out of that one because I pretty much feel the same way.
I have always been confused over how a Christian could be a conservative since so much of the philosophy and teachings of Jesus concerned charity and compassion for those who are in need. A while back, I decided that Liberal were “New Testament Christians” (Turning the other cheek, giving to the poor, etc.) and Conservatives were “Old Testament Christians” (an eye-for-an-eye, fire and brimstone and that sort).
Of course this is far too simplistic and much to general. There are many Conservatives who are very compassionate and many Liberals who are greedy and self-interested. But the modern doctrine of what we know as “conservatism” does, it seems to me, run counter to the very religion so many conservatives profess. Living simply and in poverty, being humble and unassuming (not self-promoting) and being accepting of all others; much of the New Testament doctrine seem to be at odds with the current brand of conservatism in this country.
A friend of mine who is German and who lives in Poland finds our conservatism equally troublesome. A good example comes from the Christian Left website. There is a page dedicated to (I think it is called) Christianity Evolution – or some other title that apparently reconciles Darwinian Theory to Christian belief. I am told by several European friends, the one above – who is Catholic – included, that this issue was solved long ago by simply admitting that, while a Christian believes that their God created all things, it does not say how or how long it took. Even though the Bible says it took six days, even an elementary student will point out that there could have been no days before the sun and earth were created because it takes the earth revolving one full revolution and the sun's light falling on the same place in relation to that revolution for there to be a day. So, in most of Europe, they chalk it up to ancient peoples making up a solution to a question they did not have the tools or knowledge to understand at the time.
But I get far off course. I hope you are right about Christians becoming aware of the propaganda they have been fed. With vocal “representatives” of the faith such as Fred Phelps (the “God Hates Fags” patriarch or the Westboro Baptist Church that pickets the funerals of fallen soldiers) and the vitriol that is spread in the name of “true Christianity” (just as the vitriol spread in the name of “true Islam” or “true Judaism” or any other religion), I cannot understand how anyone would want to be part of a religious philosophy that is rooted in the brand of hate and anger that they profess.
Thank you for your post and the websites. I enjoyed them.
Thank you for your responses. I just want to say I couldn't agree more about the need for humility and returning to the giving, loving faith you speak of. So many Christians, by aligning themselves with the Republican party, even thinking of it as "the Christian" party (heaven forbid,) have completely lost sight of their faith in my opinion. My little side mission this year is to point even a few away from their entanglement with the ugliness of extreme conservatism. The ones who can see how simplistic thinking led them down the wrong path, the ones who are bold enough to change and look at things in a new way. And I do think it is relevant to the OWS movement, as there will be many Christians either standing with you or against you. I know this is not a Christian movement and don't seek to make it one, but as some people have so eloquently pointed out on here, many moral values at the core of the movement reflect the ones we Christians are supposed to be about.
I'm with you -- I think there is room enough for all -- or no -- religions in the sort of society we imagine. I once had a friend who said, in relation to the myriad of religions -- that he felt that the creator spoke to people in ways they they could understand and that was why there were so many faiths. I like that idea. Myself, I take the view that it is the result that matters rather than teh doctrine; if a religion offers one a guide to living a good (better) life and causes no harm to others, then, to me, it's valid. But, you're also right that too many people of all religions take a view that anyone who does not beleive exactly as they do, they must be the enemy. I was reading this morning about a militia movement in Montana in which the leader is a former minister. He insists that white people are the actual chosen ones of God and that Jews are children of Satan. It's the same with Fred Phelps. He calls himself a Bible scholar and can, indeed, quote chapter and verse word-for-word, but he doesn't know anything but the words.
I'm thankful for people such as you who understand that their religion is something of tolerance and understanding. I think the radical fundamentalists have for too long been the public face of Christianity just as the extremist fundamentalists in Islam and Judaism have been too long the faces of their religions.
I wish you great fortune on your mission.
The Bible itself gives the answer to interpreting scriptures, "spiritual words are spiritually discerned"1. Cor.2 14. meaning the Holy spirit gives understanding, not just faith or scholarly study. John 5:39. It's a matter of how you approach it. If you rely only on the intellect, that isn't enough. A person can get faith but can choose to remain ignorant of the truth or be hindered in following their faith Gal. 5:7. Another favorite, "It is not good to have zeal without knowledge," somewhere in Proverbs. God isn't against knowledge or zeal either one, just wrong use of them. He doesn't care much for liars and hypocrites and people who would pervert His words. By the way i'm not thumping my Bible, just repeating what i've read :).
In attempting to give an answer to my point, you in reality support it. I care nothing about challenging anyone's faith, so long as it causes no harm to others and gives the person guidance to do good works. But just as you point out your version of how to interpret the Bible, there are dozens of others who can pull out phrases and sentences that will show other ways of interpreting it as well as other interpretations. For one thing, which Bible do we wish to interpret? The Old Testament or the New? Certain Gnostic sects who were declared heretical by the Vatican solved the problem of the "two faces of God" by interpreting the Old Testament as relating to an older, inferior god -- YHWH who created all things material and physical -- and in them embodied evil. They insisted that the god of the New Testament – given only the name of the One True God -- was the god of good and was responsible for the Spiritual Creation.
I point this out because it is a very good illustration of how all religious documents are interpretable, If they were not, there would be no diversity in the sects that use the very same document upon which they base their form of the religion. In other words, if there is only one interpretation, there can be only one version of the religion. You have chosen your version and it is as valid as any other. Because you have chosen that, you (may) believe that it is the only true version and that all others are false. However, each believer of each version of the belief is liable to have the same perspective about all the other versions, including yours, and they believe as firmly as you might that theirs is the only true version and all others false.
The fact of the matter is that there is no way to argue the point to any conclusion. As you say, faith is a matter of acceptance rather than of demonstrable evidence. So it cannot be said that any one version of it is, without a doubt, the only valid one. It is, after all, the belief that the believer has in that particular version that makes it a matter of faith. Were it demonstrably provable, it wouldn't be faith, would it?
But I am not here to debate religious philosophy – I have another site where I indulge in that pastime. The point of my post was to express my own concern that religious zealots will attempt to impose their will upon all, thereby becoming the same type of theocracy that we politically and ideologically oppose in Iran and formerly in Afghanistan. Your position on the Bible and its interpretation is an interesting one and I would not mind debating it, but in doing so here, we lose the substance of my post.
the oppressive system does not support good values, religion is derived from Greek word religto meaning tradition, so there is little if any connection to the Divine. Much needed understanding of "Art In Heaven" the interaction between Time, Passion, Liberty and Law may provide little light and hope for the future. The issue is proper understanding of the above.
Just last night, after listening to "the poor don't have work ethic" and reading posts here about poor = lazy, I was picturing the sharing of the loaves and the fishes.
Or rather I was picturing how it would be if each person had to prove that she "deserved" to be shared with. No loaf for the undeserving poor. No fish if I can accuse you of being lazy. What are you doing at this Mount anyway? Shouldn't you be working??
Note-the people on the mount would be described today as religious zealots. They weren't just random poor people standing around. They had been following Jesus through the countryside for THREE days-without worrying about food or shelter. And none of them demanded to be fed even though the walk home would be so long they wouldn't be able to purchase food before the Sabbath. It's entirely possible that they'd already proven to Jesus that they deserved to be shared with. (Read how many times Jesus tells the person He's blessed or healed or served that "their faith" was what "made them whole")
Jesus KNEW they were hungry and the ones who had ALL the food present-an adult and a little boy-brought it forward WILLINGLY. They didn't take it from them or demand equal sharing. Because of the love and purity they shared towards each other, Jesus blessed the food so that it not only fed ALL present and fed them well, there was more left over to return to the one who offered it up than they'd had before.
Talk about UNFAIR-for them to get back MORE than they'd had in the first place!
How odd that Jesus didn't march to the home of the richest man around and demand that he SHARE with these obviously hungry tired people.
nIce post! Thank you.
I always hear this is a Christian nation, but in fact several of the founding fathers were actually deists, not Christians.
Thomas Jefferson was Deist, Addams was a Unitarian and there where others that were deists.
To answer your question above, I think fear is the driving force that causes some Christians to interpret the Bible in such a way that they can justify the maintenance of their economic security. Economic fear.
All I can say is God will judge them for what they do and how they think. Whatever higher power they believe in.
Did Jesus use force?
I am an Athiest Whore. Get off me!
I am an Athiest Whore. Get off me!
Democrats spin what republican policies are in order to divide the country. I do not think the media properly portrays the views of anyone, democrat or republican. Accordingly, if you listen to Obama's rhetoric, you would conclude that republicans are not christians or that they have no values. That would be an error. Obama will say anything to get re elected, even if it divides the country. Democrats believe in having government solve all problems while republicans believe in less government.
Christians will follow if the churches would lead the fight but since they are tax exempt they can't otheriwse they would have to give up being tax exempt which they won't. Money rules on every situation.
It comes down to the serving two masters thing. People believe that if they claim to be christian but worship money are deceiving themselves.
If there were real christians in this world then they would at least live up to the 10 commandments and the 11th that we call "the golden rule". Instead people claiming to be christian are getting a riled up about taking the christ out of christmas. They say that a decorated tree is a christmas tree believing that a pagan tradition is somehow connected to Jesus. They do the same with Easter. The Easter Bunny, Easter Eggs, both symbols of fertility from pagan beliefs.
Real Christians would keep the commandment regarding the Sabbath. It begins on Friday night and continues through to Saturday night. That is the sabbath established by God that they are supposed to honor and keep holy.
There are few people who try to live up to the rules set down in that book. They all fool one another through seductive lies.
Just where is this God thing anyway?
they are called Jehovah's Witnesses and they are too busy doing the Lords work to be bothered with politics, or they are spiritual people and are just happy raising families, struggling to get by.
Wow. No stats to back up your claims. People love that. (nice Christian nickname) Especially when you bloviate about someone else's rhetoric with...rhetoric.
Do some homework. Republicans/conservatives are FAR MORE charitable according to various studies-in both the TIME they donate and the money they donate-than liberals/Democrats are.
Republican/conservatives donate more clothing, work more hours serving others, and contribute to the needy in their communities in higher percentages than Dems/liberals do.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/03/conservatives_more_liberal_giv.html
2 Thessalonians 3:10-Those who will not (does not say cannot) work, shall not eat.
I don't follow ANYONE-including politicians "because they simply say Hey, I'm a Christian". Hell, Obama is a Christian and I wouldn't follow him out of a burning building.
Jesus Christ NEVER said "defend the poor" or "get Rome to take care of the poor". He said YOU feed the poor, YOU clothe them, YOU comfort them, YOU visit them. Jesus Christ NEVER said "fight" anyone.
Judas sold Christ out for 20 pieces of silver. And Jesus Christ KNEW He was going to. He also knew that human beings SUCK at reading each other's hearts and minds and so He commanded us NOT to try.
The very idea that you are judging ALL Republicans or ALL conservatives based on the actions of some-or your own assumptions- was something Jesus taught very clearly was WRONG.
The Good Samaritan. The woman taken in sin. The woman who anointed His feet with oil and wiped them with her hair. You are no better than the Pharisees He spoke of. You are flour without leaven. Judgement without righteousness, or authority.
You want to go rounds with me on what Jesus said and did? Let's go. But until you've spoken to, read the hearts and minds of, and walked in the shoes of every single Republican and conservative out there-don't you dare be so pompous and filled with hubris as to pretend you KNOW who or what "all of them" are. The very act of doing so is an attempt to put yourself on equal terms with Jesus Christ and Him alone.
I said MOST republicans and you have a right to believe the party is ok. But what fact have you , that prove they have the peoples best interests at heart? did you get that from FOX NEWS.
I did not SAY the "party" was ok. I couldn't care LESS what "the party" wants or does because I don't vote based on parties. I choose the candidate I WANT TO-based on my own personal evaluations of the candidates.
And you just went right to ASSuming or inSINuating that I get my thoughts, actions or whatever "from FOX NEWS". VERY Christlike of you.NOT
reread my post...i'm not attacking christians I'm asking why do christian republicans still follow the corrupt Republicans....as i said in my post not all republican officials are corrupt...and notice how i said all parties have corruption in them. Furthermore i Don't speak for christ but quite a few men in washington have implied they do.
Maybe, if you actually did some homework, you're realize that the Christian Republicans are sick and tired of the fracking Republicans and aren't following them anymore (which is why the Independent numbers are rising) and that they find the Christian Democrats to be even MORE evil so they aren't following them either.
In which case you'd have to ASK the Christian Republicans why they follow who they follow (as well as the Christian Democrats the same thing). Your ASSumption that anyone who posts here represents anyone else is stupid and naive. Kind of like how OWS says they speak for the 99% when they clearly don't.
So, why so angry? it sounds like your more offended that i want people to stand by the values they preach instead of for greed, infidelity and lies. which is against Christianity. To me its clear that all parties are part of this but every law that is to help the people of this nation has been stopped by republicans and the tea party. you clearly are a Republican so i guess you represent one of the group i'm talking about. WHY FOLLOW PEOPLE THAT GO AGAINST THE VALUES OF CHRIST?
Jesus himself said when asked "How do I be a christian", he replied, "To live the same as me"
But in reality if anyone in ameriKKKa live or talked like jesus he would be imprisoned.
Case closed, its impossible to be a Christian in the United States of Amnesia.
Amen Amen Amen Brother or Sister!!!!!!!
So if you say that it is in fact impossible to be a Christian in the United States, then you answered your own question.
I'll wait for you to demonstrate that every law that "is to help the people of this nation has been stopped by republicans and the tea party." The burden of proof lies with you....so get crackin. If you cannot prove to me your statement is true, you prove my point for me by default.
The 63 times that Republicans blocked the law makers from making laws this year by filibusters. http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/
stop the party line bullshit
Your game is to accuse anyone who is not radically right as someone who uses divisive party line politics.
i've been watching you for a few days. you are a troll. your opinion means nothing.
You know what people blame the democrats well that great all the other parties are to blame too, but we all know who is in charge, when all laws must go through them first. And by them I mean Republicans!!!!!
and you will never defeat the politicians on both sides if you cannot connect with your neighbors. you want to win this fight or just use it as a platform for bitching?
Perhaps I could add a little to the confusion:
There is a lot of difference in fighting for the poor because I am poor, fighting for the poor because I want your vote next election, and fighting for the poor by hitting the areas that are capable of doing something about the status of the poor. The last thing that a poor person needs is a lot of advice from another poor person. Probably best summed up in the "give a man a fish and he eats for one meal - teach a man to fish and he eats every day).
You are not talking about something as simple as 20 coins of silver and a sellout here. You are talking about a very deep philosophy, way of looking at life, etc. Jesus had all the power to give every poor person during his walk on this earth: a home, a job, riches beyond measure and even a free education at the finest schools - my question to you - WHY did Jesus not do that??
Now do you see the difference in the philosophies of the various groups that you make reference to. Your whole approach has to do with money, does not address other motives for action (votes, justification for their own riches, etc).
You see, it is much easier to fight for the poor in any field if you are among the rich and seek a permanent advancement for all people. If you are among the rich and seek only the favor of the poor, you throw them a bone now and them (welfare, food stamps, etc) but your real intent is to keep them poor but believing that your are their only way out where the can have a bone every day.
Ask yourself - why does this huge block that we call the poor keep growing each year. Why do we feed into this growing block all the time. And what do we gain by having that block set were it is.
You see, that block of the poor simply is locked in place. It never moves upward, only gets larger year after year. The top of this succession of poor to rich, continues to move upward and away from that block. The result is that today, we see the evil as the top that is moving upwards. The real EVIL is the fact that we as a nation and as Christians are not effectively moving that block called the poor upwards with us.
The demise of this country is happening in that block of people identified as the poor, and that block grows larger as we throw more of our citizens into that block from the middle class. We are working at a fast pace to create two blocks - one poor and one rich, and our policies show the largest growth in the poor section.
The next question, WHO benefits most from having this huge block set in place.
a. Corporations - who want to sell a lot of stuff to make a profit? b. Politicians - looking for voting blocks (read your papers - and see who is identifying with these blocks that they have created) c. Christians - who promote a philosophy of teaching a man to fish d. Christians - who feed the man today and will extend that feeding period until the man no longer knows what he is eating and doesn't care as long as the food keeps coming. "Give us this day our daily bread"
Jesus did not fight for equality - he fought for the individual, whether he be saint or sinner. His entire ministry was directed at the individual, his scorn was directed at the groups. His "Sermon on the Mount" was directed at the individuals in attendance, right at each heart. His equality, was equality of the inner person - not in money or things as you easily point out.
Neither party has a corner on the Christian market - they DO HAVE a corner on the philosophy that they advance as the solution to problems they see. You see the same problems - the only difference will be in what you think the solution is - and this will be determined by your philosophy.
Way too much more to say and it is getting late. Tomorrow. b.
What you ask cannot be explained in a sentence or a paragraph. Read the book "Richest Man in Babylon" written years ago, it explains all.
But essentially in the progress of all mercantile civilizations money always concentrates in the hands of the few, without exception.
This is because by nature, and this is true by a population of monkeys or rats, that 90% never figure out what's going on, 7% figure it out and save and prosper, and 3% control everything.
This is a constant for all populations on earth.
Now the essential question is WHO THE FUCK ARE YOU?
one of the 3% one of the 7%
or one of the 90%
The 90% have always been slaves and and always will even in commie china or russia, the 1% party gets the good shit, the majority always get the shit.
Today the USA is a failed state cuz their currency has collapse the USA has been a PONZI a CONFIDENCE game for 40+ years, and the world is now sick of our SHIT.
For the 3% they already have their chateau in Italy, for the 7% we wired our money out of the USA long ago. Now you last 90% have waken up to the proposition that tomorrow will not be like yesterday. Your fucked.
Get the book "Richest man in Babylon" and read and learn about how humans operate, and then chose to be a winner or loser. But no government or -ism in human history has EVER 'fixed' this problem that 90% choose to be MUSHROOMS.
Again I'm not bashing christians I'm call those who support greed to remember WHY they are christians and What Christ stands for.
Glad to see that we're bashing Christianity, but don't fool yourself to think that RIGHT-WING christianity and Z I O N I S M aren't siamese twins sharing the same asshole. G-Bush prez-1, frequently gives talks every year at the Vatican on visiting the holy-land.
The GOOD christians are an extreme minority, CHRISTIANITY long ago was co-opted to say that if you embrace baby-jeebus you'll get rich.
Modern USA christianity is not unlike a cargo-cult, they just join and wait for shit to come to them by virtue of the club they join.
Look at TV nation in OKC the capital of world christian tele-evangelical, its hard to point out one leader in OKC that hasn't gotten caught raping little girls. Funny its just like the Catholic Church and raping little boy's.
Hypocrisy isn't even close to explaining the behavior of americKKKa's christian-right-wingers.
Lastly, yes will a REAL GOOD CHRISTIAN MAN/WOMAN please stand up and defend the Christianity of BUSH, or Cheney, or OBAMA. All these men are cards carrying 'christians', who have murdered the world with indiscretion, please good men & women come here and defend their ass.
Yes, seems many fake Christians around here, seems disgusting. Look for example about Christmas, it seems most have lost the plot about what it's about, rather this sale or that. i trying not to be Scrooge-like, but seems out of control, and in whole other league is all the killing and destruction by these so called Christians and those who vote for them, and those who love those who vote for them, such as me. It's a mess!
MalcolmX in 1960's said "US democracy is hypocrisy"
Shit its worse now, ... yes xmas is just a 'go shopping', well we can agree that western-religion is largely the creation of the state, the romans co-opted early christianity and gave us the roman-church, its about power,
Today in the USA its about PRINTED-MONEY being GOD, in order to pull the confidence scam ( ponzi ) everyone must go shopping and frequently,
Just one more way to kill the beast "Boycott XMAS", or occupy-xmas, ... no shopping, no biz, the beast dies, but its paper is dying anyway,...
XMAS is about keeping the US economy alive,
Christianity for so long has been about the Crusades, even BUSH 1&2 saw themselves as Knights of Templar, rat fucking crazy our leaders are, ... rat fucking crazy, SKULL&BONES crazy J-Kerry to boot, ... and all poly-tickians who embrace the cross of baby-jeebus, ... rat fucking crazy.
yes, it's a mess. it seems all about money, without balance, not even close to any semblance of balance. When comes to business and government, it seems largely a show, with little to no teachings put into practice.
Depending on place or situation i do see love, feel love energy, but it is rare in other places. Sometimes can go day without any eye contact, guess people under too much pressure.
The one 'consensus' I have repeated in my 3 weeks aboard the OWS-TITANIC is that the SHIP is going down, that ameriKKKa is beyond redemption, that if you love life and your family, get the fuck out of the USA. Compeche?
I wasn't bashing christians, merely asking why republicans are popular among christians when they don't emulate christian morals.
Christianity HAS ALWAYS been about MORAL-SUPERIORITY.
Liberalism has always been about FREEDOM.
Folks that like to have fun like to dance and screw.
The moral-superior HATE FUN.
There has always been a WAR between those who want to have FUN and those that want to control the lives of others.
This is why the RIGHT wants to control your dick, your pussy, your life, your child, and your money.
Christianity appeals to right-wing control freaks the way SHIT appeals to Fly's.
Another Question?
The WHOLE basis of CHRISTIANITY is based on DOGMATISM the idea that MY WAY OF LIFE IS RIGHT and YOURS is wrong.
Most eastern religions understand that we're all the same, but Christians believe they're GODS CHOSE PEOPLE, they believe all kinds of DUMB-SHIT, this is why the RIGHT-WINGER's tend to be IDIOTS, because only idiots believe this shit.
Lastly the catholic church and men like George Bush Senior, have know for 1,000's of years that religion lets you control the masses, and thus the right-wing control freaks LOVE RELIGION.
So let me ask you. Does that include the years of exploitation of the poor, the slaves, and war profiteering?
I don't fall into either but I think people have a right to the money they earn. Which I have been told means I am fighting for the 1%.
I have another question for you. If you were rich would you play fare if another person or millions of people want what you have? And could have the potential to become equal with you lowering your monetary value? In a pyramid there cane only be a few at the top, several in the middle and millions and billions as the foundation. why do you think for thousands of year slavery was so popular?
Because it kept people where they were. No I wouldn't play fair because it is my money that I worked for and earned and scrambled for in my lifetime. You didn't do the work or make the plans but you still want a piece of what I have. How is that fair in any way? I have a question for you.
You as a middle class citizen make the average income and feel entitled to what you make. Where do you get the balls to make demands of what I have?
No one should be overtaxed I just think the wealthy should pay the same % tax as us. Thats fare to what they earn.
And don't they actually pay more? I'm personally a proponent of flat tax but that is just me.
yes, of course but not an equal share. there is a big difference. Because the lower earning americans have to make up the difference.
Furthermore , The point that i'm making is the wealth hire people, they work at a middle income status, or for minimum wage those people have a very low likely-hood of becoming rich, but the whole while they work for the rich the rich make enormous amounts of money off of thousands of workers to make products, labour ect.. and they should know their place and stay at the bottom because we all can't be rich can we, cause then the this country would no longer be a pyramid it would be a Plain.
I would like to point you to my lower post.
check out this post ... Who decides what is the value of our labor? This is what I was trying to say earlier.
Could you link it to me?
Again the reason for OWS is the rich don't play fare....they don't even want people of middle class or the poor to succeed, so what does my point have anything to do with your wealth being pillaged?
Isn't greed a basic human emotion? I may not agree with it but it is there and as to your point, my idea still stands. People have a right to their income whereas you don't. You have a right to your own income and that is it. No more no less. Unless of course you fall on hard times. At which point aid is perfectly reasonable. However, you will receive it only as long as you need it.
you prove my point.......thats why people are protesting OWS because the greedy rich make the wages that we should just stick to and not take from you....oh and what about taxes why should the rich pay less then the extreme poor.
I don't see it. I know that people are greedy but I don't see how that is relevant to you taking money from other people.
A man should be rewarded for his efforts not the efforts of his thousand employees...how is that fare...they are the ones doing all the work and just because he or she could get a loan, knew someone important or was born into money they are entitled to get a huge check every year while their employees barely survive. Come On.
Where do you get that information about being born to it?
How can a man work his whole life just to receive nothing from the work he's done, but his boss make millions off him and many others. Get it now?
How did the boss get to his position?
by being born into money or knowing someone.
Alright again. Where do you get that information?
Geneology.com buddy...look up the most wealthy and see how they are related. Above a million dollars.
Ok fine I concede that point but what if I make it to being a millionaire? You would still want to tax me wouldn't you and take the money I made. Its still not fair.
Have you ever checked out the facts on this Plain theory and determined exactly where that plain would be located. I very much expect that it would put everyone of us into pretty much of a poverty or lower middle class. Is that what you are advocating. You know that this would not maintain itself for any period of time. The tendancy at that point would either be to move upwards by someone from that class taking the CEO role and creating a better life of all or some or the group as a whole would simple build the pyramid in the opposite direction.
Our problem today is that everyone sees the pyramid as extending upwards, you do realize that the opposite is possible do you not. If you start with a plain, that in effect is the bottom of the pyramid and it can build in either direction (up or down). How would you control the movement so that it DID BUILD downwards and put you at the very top of the pyramid only to find that you are now the very poorest person on earth.
Thank you for adding this post, that is what I was trying to say. The wealthy want it this way forever. I am not a economist so we should look to new policy makers to fix this situation, I simply am saying its corrupt and needs to change.
In my opinion the corruption is NOT that some people (1%) are wealthy - that will always be true - but HOW they have used that wealth to corrupt (government, their own company, etc).
You missed my point.....if you a wealth person was challenged by a poor person trying to earn (in other word work go to college ect) to become equal to you ...you wouldn't play fare you would make it very difficult for any poor or middle class person to reach their full potential and be able to challenge your authority and make your profits less by the poor person being wealthy too.
Personally no I don't play favorites and believe that everyone deserves a chance of their own making. Not however, by taking from me.
imhotep3223 - Good Morning - I have been reading though your posts above and would request two things:
Would you please state your philosophy of life in very simply terms and,
Would you do that statement without any fingerpointing and in a positive tone.
I would very much life to hear from you regarding this matter. Without knowing what you really believe about life itself, your statements are not making coherent sense to me. Please.
This post is the product of a partisan hack. A typical Bill Maher advocate.
Sorry no I'm a christian...and I advocate the true message of christ!!!!
I don't think you read the entire new testament (or really much of the bible at all). A "Real Christian" would follow Romans 13:1-7. A "Real Christian" would not be concerned with OWS or any protest as this world has no meaning.
Mind you a Christian also has Acts 5:27-29, but then it is always subjective
to your reply, i say that christ was for peaceful action. thats what i ment by fight peaceful protest. Also, Acts 5:27-29 was the apostles not christ and the later says; 29 Peter and the other apostles replied: “We must obey God rather than human beings!
Matthew 10:34-37, Mark 11:15-16, John 2:14-15. Peaceful???
I'm not a Christian myself but I do have a question for you: What makes you the judge of who or what is a "real" Christian?
I am not the judge, Jesus Christ in the new testament is and he describes who a true christian is and what they should be doing, and i'm sorry to say Jesus was not, I repeat not, a capitalist, nor did he believe in making yourself rich off of the poor or middle class. Besides Jesus lived in a time like we do now where money speaks.
Tell me how many time Jesus approached Rome and demanded them to be more fair. How many protests did Jesus organize? How many posters did He create?
Tell me how many times Jesus took money from a rich man and handed it to a poor one? Or told a slave/servant to rise up against his master? 1 Peter 2:18 says "servants be submissive to your masters, not just the good and fair ones, but the harsh ones as well". And vs 19 says that "those who are mindful of God should suffer injustice with patience and graciousness."
Jesus lived in a time when both religious leaders AND government were oppressing His people and He did NOT tell them to retaliate or choose hatred/bitterness/or revenge towards them. He even submitted to the greatest injustice of all time-willingly-with perfect meekness and love.
He WAS a perfect example of how Christians should behave at all times and in all things. So it is blasphemy for you to attempt to tell them they should behave differently than He did.
So why are not more CHRISTIANS in government being more Christ like. Selling all they have and giving it to the poor?
Why aren't you asking OWS to give away all their money to the poor instead of recruiting them to help break the law? Jesus was ALL about that now wasn't He?
Maybe because God gave us the opportunity to choose our own actions? To be wicked or righteous? To call ourselves whatever we wish to, but that HE (and He alone) would know differently?
Why aren't you ripping on the CHRISTIANS in government that are DEMOCRATS? Have you sold all that YOU have and given it to the poor?
Why don't all of the parties that say their christian do that. Do you think Christ would be happy that 1% are making money off the 99%. look at the money changers. And i am christian. I choose no party, but hope christians see how the majority of the republican party is manipulating them to feed their greed.
Unless YOU have done what you say Christ said to do-give up all you own for the poor, and "follow Him", then you are just as big a hypocrite as you say they are. If you own anything that someone else does not have, YOU are just as bad as the people you're pointing fingers at.
Christ will take care of the 1% himself. He made that clear in His teachings. He made it very clear that He will exact JUSTICE from them for their actions. He didn't say ONE word to His followers that told them to take that matter into their own hands.
He also didn't say that the POOR were off the hook. The commandments ALSO apply to them. If they covet-they're just as bad as greedy rich people. If they are jealous-they are just as wrong. If they use the word of God to get what they want-when God has never told them to do that, they aren't being "Christians" either.
So to be a good christian according to you as a poor person is I should let the rich and wealthy steal from me, and do nothing? Continue to take what handouts they give begrudgingly and be happy with their corruption?
"He also didn't say that the POOR were off the hook. The commandments ALSO apply to them. If they covet-they're just as bad as greedy rich people. If they are jealous-they are just as wrong." as you said. Is not true, christ said the sin of coveting was different then stealing from the poor or greed...he said it would be easier for a camel to go thru the eye of a needle then a rich man to go to heave. and yes i'm quoting christ. and for your comment "Unless YOU have done what you say Christ said to do-give up all you own for the poor, and "follow Him", then you are just as big a hypocrite as you say they are. If you own anything that someone else does not have, YOU are just as bad as the people you're pointing fingers at." well, I have lost all of my money and i'm unemployed looking for work.. i have a bachelors degree so you see no laziness, but can't find work. furthermore the hypocrisy of the wealthy is way greater then the poor, look thru out history for evidence!!!
He is a She, or maybe they don't teach you that at Church of Bush?
Most excellent Grasshopper.
In other words baby-jeebus taught the flock to be SHEEP, to cower before caesar and give all unto caesar,
Now today Caesar is BUSH/OBAMA, and people ask why does BUSH/OBAMA love the christian faith? AIh shucks, I just can't figure this one out ...
Is or IS NOT religion the OPIUM of the masses? Maybe this is why BUSH/OBMAMA/CLINTON/RAYGUN deny us the right to use pot, or opium or natural cocaine, cuz they know if they deny natural drugs from GOD, that we have to use artificial drugs invented by evil men???
Baby Jesus didn't teach anyone anything.
No one I know cowers before the government (or the 1%) or gives all to them either. Every time you attempt to say we do just makes you look more insane.
God also gave us toxins, deadly plants, and poisonous plants and insects etc. Feel free to ingest them all you wish to because they are natural.
The USA christian nut case moral-majority sure seems to think that the Baby-Jeebuz taught.
Submission, Humility, .. not in ameriKKKa everybody's got Ball's.
Hell yes there are good and bad in nature, that's how GAWD separates idiots from non-idiots.
Interesting post from someone under the moniker of the high priest of Ra.... There are no real Christians. They never existed. They killed for the wrong reasons then and now.