Forum Post: Will Occupy Embrace Non-Violence?
Posted 12 years ago on Feb. 11, 2012, 1:50 a.m. EST by GypsyKing
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The violence will only get worse.
Of course, you believe what you find is convienant to believe, and do what you find is convienant to do. That is the sum total of your moral development, and that is why your time is over.
Occupy DOES Embrace Non-Violence !!!
I think this article explains clearly exactly how they will go about that. The average American does not have the sophistication to see through an effective campaign on the part of concerted media to blurr these lines, and therefore we must allow no blurring of this issue whatsoever. We must, as a movement, catagorically renounce all forms of violence. If not, our chances of succes, at least in the USA, will be greatly diminished.
I believe it does do so, but the issue won't seem to die, and we must find some way to put it to rest ONCE AND FOR ALL, so that any violence arising out of occupy actions is catagorically not an act of the occupy movement. This is an issue that our opponents, given any chance at all, can and will use against this movement to great effect in the US.
How would you like 'OWS' to set about "catagorically" assuaging every single person's real, imagined or affected : anxieties, doubts, misgivings, quandaries and questions ?!
Is 'OWS' to be hamstrung and neutered by the obsession and fixation of what the "opponents" will accuse, say and affect ?!!
Consider : The "opponents, given any chance at all", WILL USE ANYTHING THEY CAN "against this movement" ... so should 'OWS' turn into a politically ineffective and emasculated collection of Angelic Buddhists or a herd of ineffectual skittish sheep led by mice ?!!!
IF someone says that I am violent, how do I prove "ONCE AND FOR ALL" that I am NOT ?! How do I prove The Negative ?!! How do I prove that The W.M.D. you may accuse me of having are actually only Words of Mass Distraction ?!!
Finally, do you think that the 'ill willing' people and The Anti-'Occupy' vested interests will bat an eyelid for a single moment when it comes to their use of violence ; small, homicidal and vicious at home OR massive, genocidal and unconscionable abroad ?!!!
Are you a Militant Pacifist or an Idealist Uber-Jain ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jainism ) and IF you are, are you expecting everyone else to be so ?!!
ad iudicium !
My point here, since I haven't been able to make it clear without spelling it out, which is divissive, is that we have leaders - the NYNGA. The problem is they don't lead. If they don't lead, then let them just get the fuck out of the way, so their non-leadership doesn't become a fucking liability!
They won't take a stand on this or anything else! They are either completely dysfuctional, or absolute cowards, who won't actually DO anything! If they don't renounce violence than they are setting us up for a fall! Is that explicit enough for you?
Subtilis Satis Nunc?
It is ONLY explicit in the extent of your somewhat naive, muddled and simplistic thinking !
You've been on this forum for four months, so how have you come to the above conclusions ?!!
I'm aghast !!!
Yet ...
dum spiro, spero ;-)
Well, come on, let's have it then; let's hear your defense of this stupidity. You're the one that is ever implying others are stupid, and cowards to boot.
Let's get the British advice about how to rebel. We'd have to go back to when, exactly, to see an example of it: 200 AD? Oh, I forgot, the British were Celts then.
Trahant Nobis Cum Sapientia!
"With wisdom we can draw", sketch and start to glimpse the right conclusions perhaps only if we ask the right questions.
You want to hear my defence of "this stupidity" but I don't see "stupidity" OR lack of courage on the part of 'OWS' yet somehow you see contrive to accuse me "implying that others are stupid or cowards" ! On this forum and threads, yes - sometimes (eg. TrashyMonkey and his 'Multiply Disordered Personalities' etc.) ; Out There On The Occupations - Past, Present & Future - Never, Ever !!
This Brit's advice is that OWS ; 'The 'Occupy' Meme and Movement' and 'We The 99%' has caught hold of The US, UK and Global Imagination in Four Short Months like nothing else since The Civil Rights Movement, now nearly two generations ago and possibly The International Anti-Apartheid Campaign. I am filled with awe & admiration and happiness & hope at what has been established in Just Four Short Months. Please consider that sometimes it is in the intangibles that the firmest foundations are laid.
Americans seem so used to Demoblican / Republocrat faux-dichotomy paradigm, where everyone looks up to a leader to pronounce from up on high, that the thought of consensus and democracy based 'bottom-up' politics seems strange, dicombobulating and even frightening.
We have both agreed before that "This two party system needs to be smashed!" and that "perhaps there is - more than ever, the need for a political party to Truly Represent 'Labor" - as opposed to the current situation where both sides of the 'faux dichotomy of Republocrat / Demoblican', only really represent "Capital". Maybe past 2012, it's time for an "American Labor Party"
I think that very little is electorally possible until after the election. Tho' I don't actually wish it upon The Good Citizens of The USA ; somewhat paradoxically, the impetus and prospects of 'another way' and a Third Party, are likely to be strategically aided and abetted by the election of a 'Republican' - tho' you've said that that might be more than Americans can bear !
On the matter of the need to unite around a platform ; the situation'd be much eased and alleviated I feel, by the increased engagement the very existence of a Third Party would bring as well as working hard for increased voter registration and more emphasis on a 'Party Manifesto and Platform' rather than the standard US 'Personality Cult Driven' modus operandi for 'politicians' !!
Platform & Policies must trump 'Personalities' IF The 99% are NOT to be conned and co-opted again !!!
Personally, I honestly think that we're both a bit sleep deprived (I know I am, lol) but I sincerely think that after a restorative knap (I know I need one!), that you will be interested in and gain much by reflecting upon this 'forum post' : http://occupywallst.org/forum/learning-from-la-venezuela-by-david-swanson/ .
We All 'ebb & flow' ; we all need support & can be supportive ; we all doubt & are doubted ; we all yearn both solitude and silence yet crave company and clamour.
We here, are a 'community of spirit' and we all sometimes need "somebody to lean on" : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPoTGyWT0Cg ;-)
Take care and remember The Norwegians : http://occupywallst.org/forum/for-those-of-the-99-truly-serious-about-non-violen/ !!!
Nil Desperandum, bro' ;-)
I'm sorry about the tone of my comments. I am indeed sleep deprived, and we have agreed on many things before. All I can say now is that I see some real problems in the way this movement is currently structured. I have been forthcoming about them on another post, and so I might not be here tomorrow. If I'm not, well, I don't want to leave you on that sad note:)
I appreciate and honour your grace and depth of spirit. I'm also sorry for my initial tetchy tone ! I wish you god speed with rest, recuperation and recovery and we'll 'speak' soon ;-)
It is only inexplicit to the extent of YOUR muddled thinking!
When an organization that sets itself up to lead does not lead, and calls itself leaderless, if that makes sense to you than you certainly have a strange view of how to further a movement. I asked on this forum if anyone knew of ANYTHING they have accomplished. I received no reply.
This is rank idiocy, and I have about seen enough of it.
I am expecting the NYNGA to renounce violence, since they are at the moment, the organization that passes for the official voice of this movement, even though all we hear from them is silence.
Are you blind or in denial? Bookmark this post and get back to me in the spring.
My time will be over when I'm in the grave. Until then, deal with it.
The status-quo will change, hopefully for the betterment of all, but change it must.
The question was "Will Occupy Embrace Non-Violence? " I wrote "The violence will only get worse."
Yes, there needs to be change but OWS is going about it the wrong way. So are you advocating violence?
No. OWS does NOT advocate violence, and neither do I.
Good. But OWS is a conglomerate ranging from concerned (albeit left of center) citizens to old hippies, anarchists, socialists, union thugs, all around punks, etc. They have already tainted the OWS name and are just using OWS for cover while they attempt to push their own agenda through violence.
Why don't you stop mendaciously pretending that you give the remotest hoot about The Occupy Movement or the "tainted OWS Name" or even its Reputation let alone its Concerns and Causes ?!
veritas vos liberabit...
@ 'u' : Consider that with your reference to "useful idiot" ; it must take one to know one !! ad iudicium ...
Wow, clever.
I don't. I knew who was involved from the start. I just feel sorry for the members of OWS that don't understand what they are involved in. They don't understand the term "useful idiot", and that's exactly what they are.