Forum Post: Why should we end the Fed?
Posted 13 years ago on Oct. 11, 2011, 12:40 a.m. EST by EricAndersonJr
(51)
from Bloomington, IN
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
I'm posting this as an honest question, since I've seen abolishment of the Federal Reserve in many, if not most, statements of possible "demands" from OWS.
I'm legitimately interested in knowing what people think is so problematic about having a central bank and its functions?
Thanks!
The End the Fed thing comes from a specific group that believes ending the Fed will fix all problems as well as cure cancer. A central bank is not the problem. A corrupt Central bank run behind closed doors by other privatized banks is. We do need to take the Fed out of the hands of private banks and open the books so we can keep track of our money But we don't need to " End The Fed".
Any one that says End the Fed and all our problems will go away, They have an ulterior motive. They want to move to either a Gold standard or a Resource Based Economy where robots do all the work and strip mine the earth... Not joking about the last one either.
i don't want either. the fed is a criminal enterprise, and it is a con scam, and it is an illegal fourth branch of government, which is patently illegal according to our constitution.
the end the fed thing is a legitimate and real gripe about the single most corrupting and wrong aspect of our corporate oligarchy.
The most obvious reason why we must end the fed is that its an impossible geometric progression. They loan the USA the money and almost all income taxes go to paying them back the interest.
You can NEVER catch up because your paying them with their money which they then collect more interest on.
This means that the fed can in essence bankrupt nations and cities and people at its whim, which is exactly what it has been doing with its assorted market manipulations.
Edward Griffin wrote "The Creature From Jekyll Island" many years ago: http://goldmanbanksters.com/about-us/federal-reserve/ [bottom of page]. It is about how the FED was created. The FED is a cartel of banking interest, that no-one really knows who the owners are, and was created under a cloak of secrecy. The United States has existed without a central bank before and hopefully will again.
The people above might also be interested in the other video "How the FED works [10:00]" (lifted from Zeitgeist).
Once an institution such as the Federal Reserve System is created it effectively ends competition between banks. It means that henceforth banks will be bailed out by the government. They were bailed out sometimes before, but it required a lot of political wrangling and was embarrassing to the banks which took on too much risk and to the politicians who had to take up their cause. Once you have established a central bank then all banks either fail together (unthinkalble!) or are bailed out together. The foolish bankers are saved from paying the price they should - failure. BTW - one side-effect of this is that the major banks in existence at the time of it's creation gain an advantage by essentially locking in their status.
One of the important functions of the Federal Reserve is that is acts as a "banker of last resort". The results of the recent partial Fed audit show just how much our fractional reserve banking system needs that. Look on Senator Bernie Sanders web page for information about this. You will find that in the last 3 years the Fed has made over $16 Trillion dollars of emergency loans. That is about equal to the current Federal Debt, which took the entire Nation 60 years to accumulate "honestly"! This one statistic shows just how precarious a fractional reserve banking system is. When a lender of last resort with effectively limitless resources can make it's decisions behind closed doors then it is clearly possible to abuse this power to advance various private business interests by picking winners in the bailout game. If we ever get a full audit of the Federal Reserve we may find out what has actually gone into these kinds of decisions.
By law, the Federal Reserve answers to Congress. But it only answers IF Congress ASKS. So far Congress has been cowed by the Financial Industry. If you want to take a direct approach to making this go forward, then the political process is the way to do it. 99%+ of the members of Congress are members of one of the 2 major Parties. You can't go around them no matter what kind of protest you mount. Isn't the point of a protest to try to pressure these people to see things your way? Well, after campaign contributors, the people politicians pay the most attention to are their party members back home. There will soon be party caucuses in everyone's home districts. Anyone can attend these functions, which take place conveniently near where you live. You (YOU!!) can go and propose resolutions supporting the bills currently in Congress to do a real audit of the Fed. Or to direct your representatives to do something else you want to see done about the Financial Industry.
If you really want to make this happen and provide the fuel for a useful public debate about the basis of our Financial System, have a look at the Citizens Platform Committee (www.citizensplatformcommiittee.org, and on FB at www.facebook.com/pages/Citizens-Platform-Commmittee/255708377783230). People will have to push this up the chain in both parties to achieve the goal. Pick the Party you like and go to the caucus armed with a resolution or two and some background on the process of using Roberts Rules of Order.
the fed was created because people were scared by all the booma and bust cycles. the idea was that it could manage the process better. sorta like socialism , but for a small group of banks. it has generally failed. the end-the fed folks foolishly believe that getting rid of the fed will end those boom/bust cycles we are in. it will not. they will be more frequent. maybe less severe, but more frequent. that's why it was established in the first place. the gold thing is a ruse. the fixed currency bit could be locked to gold, copper, or oreo cookies, as long as there was a limited supply.
Agreed.
“If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks… will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered… the issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs.” – Thomas Jefferson
we cannot...... CANNOT continue to lay every quote we see on the internet to thomas jefferson... we need to be serious... and factual... http://www.snopes.com/quotes/jefferson/banks.asp
Thanks! I hadn't had a chance yet to look into it more, other than knowing Jefferson to be much more skeptical of the world of finance than his more urban found father Hamilton ;)
I often disagree with Hamilton... Specifically on central banking...
good work
Thank you.
http://www.snopes.com/quotes/jefferson/banks.asp
That's a fascinating quote -- I'll definitely explore that more.
Thanks!
From my basic understanding, it's because it's a private company and doesn't act in the interest of americans.
And it can create unlimited amounts of money. In secret. And it acts outside the authority of government it is ABOVE the government.
$16Trillion, last time around.
You don't suppose that constitutes the hugest transfer of wealth in human history, do you? Hmm?
What is that, 4 times the GDP or something ridiculous? Or like $40k per US resident? After all those 0's I start to lose count.
I never ran the numbers, but it's beyond ridiculous. The sheer magnitude of it, and the fact that it didn't solve the problem, is ominous. We are headed for a worldwide monetary collapse. Most of that money went to foreign banks.
I did run those numbers and I think $40k/person is correct. Numbers like that should get peoples' attention.
It got my attention!
The real problem is that it is privately owned. Even Alex Jones is now calling for nationalization rather than outright ending the fed. Tarpley's World Crisis Radio, Oct 8th 2011, would be an excellent place to start beefing up on this issue.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyYvDp6MaaU&feature=youtube_gdata
The end the Feders are a little bit extreme but wouldn't you scream bloody murder if there was a institution that encouraged the governments addiction to spending. Forced the government to pay interest on the money they borrowed while the bail out buddies get interest free loans. Lets face it the Fed picks winners and they picked our government to be the loser. This is insanity!
Nationalize the thing already make them answer to the treasury and Congress. All the more reason to vet members of congress and vote reasonably.
This is a very basic explanation of how our debt money system works that I dialogued with another person in another topic
http://occupywallst.org/forum/why-we-must-end-the-fed-by-quadrawack-and-a-youtub/
And this is a set of videos that explains fully the monetary system, so you can understand the full scope of why the Federal Reserve system of money is a very very poor system to use.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/internet-teach-in-money-as-debt-by-paul-grignon/
If you're not for ending it then at least end the corruption through some form of oversight!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJqM2tFOxLQ
http://occupywallst.org/forum/why-we-must-end-the-fed-by-quadrawack-and-a-youtub/
tr289 - I agree somewhat, however the Fed IS the problem. They have been kiting checks since 1971 at least. Killing the Federal Reserve would restore Constitutional government quite rapidly.
I also agree that the gold standard is a bad idea. I have another solution that will work.
Because the Fed has been kiting checks since at least 1971. That's the source of inflation. Nothing to fear by doing so. 99.999% of the world would cheer.
1913.
i love that your username is HankRearden. what are your own views -- either on the Fed, or the OWS movement in general?
End the Fed, and return to constitutional money, NOT unbacked paper.
On OWS? I think it's an expression of anger over the fact that the greatest transfer of wealth in human history has taken place, only it hasn't been paid for, and the debt for it all has been laid on our head, and the prospects for a prosperous life have been utterly destroyed for the younger generation. Not that most participants can express it that way, but that's the way I see it.
I've been trying to point out the cause, and the cost.
A lot of people are blaming the underlings. The underlings will be jettisoned, sacrificed, and a thousand more will step in to take their place for a chance at some of that unearned wealth.
That's what I think, anyway, since you asked.
This isn't an attack on the rich. There is nothing wrong with being rich. There is a problem with being rich and stealing from the poor. There is a problem with few people controlling the wealth, and to that end there is a problem when those who control the wealth are not helping their country and society progress.
David Walker, former US Comptroller General and chief of the GAO, warned before the 2004 election that if large economic changes were not made, by 2009 the United States and its taxpayers would not be able to afford the interest payments on the national debt. A study authorized by the US Treasury in 2001 found that in order to keep servicing the debt at its current rate of growth, by 2013 income taxes would need to be raised to 65%. If the United States cannot afford to pay the interest on its debts, that would be the final stage of economic collapse and hence result in a total textbook bankruptcy. The systematic crisis would in turn spread to the rest of the world.
How did this happen? Why is the US national debt $14,819,350,000+? Of the 203 countries in the world today, only four (!) do not owe others money. The collective external debt of all the governments in the world is now above 40 trillion dollars and this number doesn’t include the massive about of household debt in each country.
The whole world is basically bankrupt. But how? How can the world as a whole owe money to itself? Obviously, it’s all nonsense. There is no such thing as ‘money’. There are only planetary resources, human labor and human ingenuity. The monetary system regulated by Federal Reserve is nothing more than a game… and an outdated and dysfunctional one at that. Those in positions of social power alter the rules of the game, at will. The nature of those rules is guided by the same competitive, distorted mentalities that are used in everyday “monetary” life, only this time the game is rigged at its root to favor those who run the show. For example, if you have 1 million dollars and put it into a CD at 5% interest, you are going to generate $50,000 a year simply for that deposit. You are making money off of money itself… paper being made from other paper … nothing more - no invention - no contribution to society – no nothing. That being denoted, if you are a lower to middle class person, who is limited in funds, and must get interest based loans to buy your home or use credit cards, then you are paying interest to the bank, which the bank is then using, in theory, to pay the person’s return with the 5% CD! Not only is this equation outrageously offensive due to the use of usury (interest) to ‘steal from the poor and give to the rich’, but it also perpetuates class stratification by its very design, keeping the lower classes poor, under the constant burden of debt, while keeping the upper classes rich, with the means to turn excess money into more money, with no labor. That reality aside, there are other games in the system which have worked for decades, but are just now starting to bloom into the inevitable mathematic disasters that should have been anticipated 100 years ago. The point is, our system is broken. Simple policy change will not solve our debt problem. We need to alter the governmental paradigm if we wish to repay our debt.
Culprit: the Federal Reserve Board.
This is not a liberal or conservative issue. This is a matter of upholding the Constitution. Congress gave over the power of the purse in 1913 to a quasi-public-private bank called the Federal Reserve which manipulates global currencies. This is wholeheartedly unconstitutional, and at this point it's become immoral. We must act now.
Congress and/or the U.S. government do NOT print our money. Rather, Congress and/or the U.S. government BORROW the USE of our own MONEY at interest from the Federal Reserve, a private banking cartel which creates this money OUT OF THIN AIR !
Through the Fed’s fractional reserve process what we use for money is issued (OUT OF THIN AIR) as interest-bearing debt.
"Private money creation through the fractional reserve accounting fosters an unprecedented concentration of wealth which destroys the democratic process and ultimately promotes imperialism. 1% of the American population claims ownership of over 40% of the wealth, and receives 24% of income, and vital infrastructure is ignored. "
http://www.Monetary.org
The Federal Reserve was partially created so Congress could spend without the taxpayer knowing it is being taxed.
Your income tax at this point in time SOLELY goes to pay interest to the Federal Reserve ( the middle man which is Independent and private) on money they never had in the first place and merely ordered the Treasury to print of their press and merely guaranteed.
Unless you thoroughly understand that the Fed is at the center of all our wars, our out of control spending and the fact they suppress inflation through keeping interest rates artificially low for decades, you cannot possibly grasp the dire state we are in because of this institution.
David Rockefeller’s own words he spoke before the secretive Trilateral Commission in June, 1991, when he said:
“We are grateful to The Washington Post, The New York Times, Time Magazine and other great publications whose directors have attended our meetings and respected their promises of discretion for almost forty years. It would have been impossible for us to develop our plan for the world if we had been subject to the bright lights of publicity during those years. But, the work is now much more sophisticated and prepared to march towards a world government. The supranational sovereignty of an intellectual elite and world bankers is surely preferable to the national auto determination practiced in past centuries.”
In 2002 Rockefeller authored his autobiography “Memoirs” wherein, on page 405, Mr. Rockefeller writes:
“For more than a century ideological extremists at either end of the political spectrum have seized upon well-publicized incidents such as my encounter with Castro to attack the Rockefeller family for the inordinate influence they claim we wield over American political and economic institutions. Some even believe we are part of a secret cabal working against the best interests of the United States, characterizing my family and me as "internationalists" and of conspiring with others around the world to build a more integrated global political and economic structure - one world, if you will. If that's the charge, I stand guilty, and I am proud of it."
We have a Federal Reserve that recently dispensed 16 trillion, TRILLION in taxpayer deposit as collateral, practically free money to cronies in corporations and to FOREIGNERS. It's a private bank with a monopoly on the money supply. So not only do they DICTATE all terms regarding our money, inflate the hell out of it, deflate the hell out of it, give money away to fraudulent entities, siphon away our tax dollars from interest payments, but these two things are the biggest incentives for the Fed. Remember, banks make their money by making loans and getting interest. What are the two things that require the most loans? Numero Uno WARS, and Numero Dos Public services.
Ever wonder why we've had so many goddamn wars? Now you know why. Talk about a massive money making machine. And I believe a Central Bank is a massive problem. If you compare today, with the Fed, versus back when we had a Free Banking society, where banks competed in a free market regarding currency, you'll find far far less chaos in the economy then you'll find today. The Fed is a corrupt, abusive monopoly, plain and simple.
Yes, this.
The Federal Reserve is a cartel of private bankers that holds no accountability to the American people. It employs inflationary and deflationary practices that serve as a means to control the American economy by printing worthless fiat currency (legal debt public and private ring a bell?) that has only one means of backing - faith. The IOU notes that it prints (which you might think of as "dollar bills") is loaned to the US Treasury (on faith) with interest. This furthers the government debt because the government has to take out more IOUs (print more money) to cover its previous debt - creating a downward and irrevocable spiral of debt. It is a very tangled web, but if you want some good nightmare bedtime reading, look up the history of the Fed (an dhow/why it was enacted), its role in further escalating the Great Depression, and the Bilderburg group.
The Fed is owned by private banks, some of which are not even American. They create problems by printing money causing inflation that causes consumer prices to rise without wages rising. On top of that they charge the people 10% on every dollar printed. So when they print money they get their 10% right off the top then they get to use the printed money before it goes into the economy causing inflation at it's higher value and you get to receive it later in your paycheck after it's been devalued and has caused consumer prices to rise without your paycheck rising. This is just scratching the surface of the problems with the FED.
But we haven't had inflation for quite some time.
I don't know much about this, but I can see people being concerned about the Fed since it's privately owned and its books are closed but doesn't that simply argue for openness and possibly takeover by the government rather than abolishment?
I do think there is an issue because they propped up the banks by loaning them trillions of dollars at virtually zero interest which gives the banks more power than they ought to have and allows them to succeed when they are probably mis-managed and should probably fail. They also probably put the United States into too much debt by making money too cheap. But it seems that it serves a useful purpose by helping to dampen bubbles and calm panic runs on the banks. What am I missing?
I laugh at these end the Fed jokers. You do raise a good point. How do they know so much about it if the books are closed. It's either one or the other. Sorry to day these folks don't have a clue what they're talking about but that sure doesn't stop them from having an opinion. The comment at the top of the list is classic. Attributing a quote to Jefferson that he never said. That's about all these people can do. Endlessly repeat lies and half truths without ever bothering to do some research or inform themselves from non-partisan sources. In all of the nonsense they spout because they think the Fed does this or that, I've never heard anyone say what they expect if they somehow succeeded and the Fed was gone. What does that world look like? You'll never hear a word about that because the chaos that ensues would quickly pave the way for a repressive totalitarian state.
When I "woke up" after the Great Recession hit and actually started learning a little about economics, I discovered that my old Libertarian pals were talking in sound bytes and stereotyping rhetoric and not conveying actual information. Now I see through it like glass but until I learned how to think, I was very deluded too.
You're missing the fact that they own 5.3 TRILLION of our debt. A lot of media pundits harp and scream that China owns us. China only owns at most 1.2 trillion. The Fed owns 5.3. The IRS, our taxes by and large go to paying the interest on that debt. If you figure our national debt is 14.4 trillion, 5.3 trillion is at least 1/3rd of the national debt. The Fed OWNS US. AND, they loan out the money, print it, and give it away with few stipulations to their cronies. Under a fractional reserve banking system, that means they use TAXPAYER's to back their loans.
It's the worse form of human bondage known to man.
Hmm, I thought the debt was owned by private bond owners from all over the world. Are you sure the Fed owns it? Can you provide any evidence? i'm skeptical of what you're saying but I'm willing to be convinced if you can provide evidence.
Here ya go.
http://www.cnbc.com/id/29880401/The_Biggest_Holders_of_US_Government_Debt?slide=16
"1. Federal Reserve and Intragovernmental Holdings
US debt holdings: $5.351 trillion
That’s right, the biggest holder of US government debt is actually within the United States. The Federal Reserve system of banks and other US intragovernmental holdings account for a stunning $5.351 trillion in US Treasury debt. This is the most recent number available (Sept 2010), and marks an all-time high.
About a decade ago, the total government holdings were "only" $2.5 trillion.
Photo: Getty Images The Biggest Holders of US Government Debt By: Paul Toscano, Producer, CNBC.com | 25 Mar 2009 | 03:17 PM ET Text Size
The Biggest Holders of US Government Debt
US debt holdings: $5.351 trillion
That’s right, the biggest holder of US government debt is actually within the United States. The Federal Reserve system of banks and other US intragovernmental holdings account for a stunning $5.351 trillion in US Treasury debt. This is the most recent number available (Sept 2010), and marks an all-time high. "
That figure is probably a lot higher right now.
But is the Fed a reseller of government bonds or an original buyer? If they're an original buyer, where does the money come from? If they're a reseller, where does the money come from?
Ah, you've entered the paradox, and indeed, the CORE issue of why our financial system has gone to hell.
Allow me to introduce you to a set of educational tools. The first one is a dialogue, a very simple analogy as to how our debt money system works. This will give you a very basic paradox that you'll need to think about.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/why-we-must-end-the-fed-by-quadrawack-and-a-youtub/
And this one will show you how the Fed can do what it does, and why this system of money is a very very very poor system to use.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/internet-teach-in-money-as-debt-by-paul-grignon/
Thanks. I'm starting to understand some aspects of macro-economics but the Fed is still a bit of a mystery. I'll check out the links.
Two words: Alan Greenspan. Read Matt Taibbi's bestseller 'Griftopia.'