Forum Post: Why I have chosen NOT to participate in OWS
Posted 13 years ago on Oct. 13, 2011, 11:21 a.m. EST by oclisa
(74)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
I am going to make this simple but before you jump to conclusions, know that my decision is well-thought out and that I have been here almost since the beginning (was at Zucotti Park on Sept 18 & 19 btw even though I live very far from NYC). I am middle America everything and I initially supported OWS when I mistakenly believed that the (simple and direct) message was to end the crony capitalism that controls this country on the backs of the rest of us. Since then, OWS has clearly become a movement of the Left. (willingly co-opted in the same way that the Tea Party was co-opted by the Right) I want to believe this is not true and it is only a media distortion but this OWS site itself confirms where this movement stands. Too bad, OWS could have made a real difference if the message had been a simple one that all sides could agree on, i.e. end Wall Street's occupation of D.C. Instead, this movement has a decidedly socialist bent, not because the media say so, but because this website says so. I'm out.
I still have hope and am eagerly awaiting some sort of 'official' demand/agenda but I share your trepidations
I agree - once the lefties get it in to their head that this movement will fail without the full support of the right and middle America, then maybe we'll get somewhere.
But then, having this movement fail serves the purpose of the elite anyhow, doesn't it?
We must unite on common ground, or we'll all screwed.
It is precisely because the "lefties" think it will fail that they will not support the movement. unless OWS proves itself, they won't gain any serious support, beyond show-boating preachers, and celebrities. if the movement keeps growing, lasts through the winter months, and can find a stable source of funding... perhaps then someone more relevant will support it.
I also agree. A movement is better than no movement. I think people were oblivious to that was happening in/at Wall Street and Washington. At least now people are waking up!
Somewhat true, but what we most immediately need is a comprehensive strategy, and related candidate, that implements all our demands (left and right) at the same time, and although I'm all in favor of taking down today's ineffective and inefficient Top 10% Management System of Business & Government, there's only one way to do it – by fighting bankers as bankers ourselves at $500 apiece. Consequently, I have posted a 1-page Summary of the Strategic Legal Policies, Organizational Operating Structures, and Tactical Investment Procedures necessary to do this at:
http://getsatisfaction.com/americanselect/topics/on_strategic_legal_policy_organizational_operational_structures_tactical_investment_procedures
Join
http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/StrategicInternationalSystems/
if you want to be 1 of 100,000 people needed to support a Presidential Candidate – such as myself or another you'd like to draft – at AmericansElect.org in support of the above bank-focused platform.
Well ... do you really think, that McCarthyism still works? Yes ... it is true ... a lot of people get scared if you mention socialism or communism. But the main problem is, that most americans have no idea what communism or socialism is ... that is why Rush Limbaugh gets away calling Obama a socialist!
I think it is great that Lech Walesa is joining the movement on Zuccatti Park! http://online.wsj.com/article/APb6ba79d7a2c741ddb02b45462a3ad68e.html this is important ... very important! For those of you who are to young to remember: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lech_Wa%C5%82%C4%99sa
a bunch of people with little purpose in life with nothing to do, finding something to do and demostrate about everything they don't like. Get off ur a$$e$, find a job, be the solution and not the problem!
The agenda is do nothing, sleep in the park, get feed for free, get high and crap all over the place: then say everything is F up.
good job!
Yeah, let them eat cake.
a bunch of people with little purpose in life with nothing to do, finding something to do and demostrate about everything they don't like. Get off ur a$$e$, find a job, be the solution and not the problem!
The agenda is do nothing, sleep in the park, get feed for free, get high and crap all over the place: then say everything is F up.
good job!
Couldn't agree with you more. This movement started about separation of business and government.
Now we're talking about free healthcare, education, jobs, salary caps, etc, etc...I wish I knew why any of this was tied to Occupy WALL STREET.
The OWS facebook page has said that it will not be co-opted, but they need to get on a major mainstream media show and say this. I know a few spokespeople have been on MSNBC talking about the movement, but they need to address to the nation that they are being slandered by the right and trying to be co-opted by the left, and they want no part of it. Their misinformation is strong, but I think this movement could be stronger, for sure.
We are a socialist country. Republicans are socialists, democrats are socialists. We have just forgotten. I don't know how or why socialism has become a 'bad' word associated with communism and other fascist movements. It's a misnomer. Look it up.
We are a socialist country. Republicans are socialists, democrats are socialists. We have just forgotten. I don't know how or why socialism has become a 'bad' word associated with communism and other fascist movements. It's a misnomer. Look it up.
I have no idea what you are talking about. You seem to have your own definition of Socialism.
The pendelum has swung too far in the direction of crony capitalism... It needs to swing back a bit towards Socialism. Both systems have their merits and shortcomings, but I believe a hybrid system is in order. First we overthrow the current government abd financial system. Next we create a new system of government that prevents parasites form profiting from usury, credit default swaps and the like... You should stay in the movement oclisa, we need everyones input in this struggle. We will succeed by any means necessary....
I think I can safely say that a vast majority of the population would be against that. Remember, while there are a lot of people struggling, there are many many more that are living very comfortably with the current system. Why would they want to give that up?
Sounds like checks and balances, which was a favorite of our founding fathers.
I doubt we can overthrow, but we can push things to a better balance of OWS lives up to its potential.
Not sure why you hate capitalism. It led to that fancy iPhone you are using to tweet your communist demands.
As a socialist, I think that the very core of this problem is the system that propagates the political value of wealth, and that government itself should be a reaction against aristocratic power. I think that barring the donations of money or other consideration to politicians by any business, big or small, or any person, rich or poor, treats the symptom quite well but not the disease (A corollary would then be the removal of privately funded political advertising). But I would be willing to go no further than the end of what you call "crony capitalism" in the system if the people wanted to end it there. I'm sorry you feel abandon by this social movement, but don't be afraid to voice your opinions to the masses, and don't be afraid of partisanship. Remeber, support for bipartisanship is what allowed the two political parties in this country merge so disgustingly into one private corporate party.
Sorry but you are wrong and so are others who are calling themselves the 99%. That is a joke and naive in the extreme. We all understand the feeling and the vision to want to represent 99% but you simply can not claim that without prior approval. It is a nice fantasy to want to be all-inclusive but ultimately you will receive a lot of derision. I can not even imagine what 99% of the population would agree on unless you have one simple demand which would be end corruption. Of course, once you begin to spell that out, you may lost a few % points.
1% of all households in the U.S. is about 1 million households. The other 99.99 million (the actually number of households may be 120 million, this is just a rough estimate to make a point), represent a very broad group, many quite well off and perhaps even rich and hard corps Republicans, besides.
99% is a great marketing tool until you eventually get ripped to shreds and mocked for the sheer arrogance of claiming this. Close to 10% of population owns 90% of wealth in the country. 10% represents about 3.2 million people. But even the second tier which would include some 20% of population is very well off. Again, many are Republicans.
If you stay focused on Corruption, it may work. Once you start expanding onto other issues, you lost much of this group. Best to think about these things thoroughly before you rush into decisions. Retractions can be embarrassing.
Oh, and by the way, trying to work with Republicans, most of them anyways, will not be successful. Reaching out is noble but you will find so much disagreement that you will end up having to reconceptualize your ideas about representing 99%.
There is no actual need to put a number of those who might agree with you. But if you want a number, please figure out what that number is agreeing with. You got it backwards. But I love what you are doing generally speaking. You need more careful consideration of things. If you are a New Yorker, you are probably saying, "Yeah, what do you know, asshole?" I understand, brothers. Just trying to be helpful. I have experience as an organizer and activist. I like to think it means something.
I fear the same thing. The media and politicians are trying very hard to politicize and co-opt the movement into a Leftist movement. The disinformation is fierce.
Unfortunately, the OWS is not distancing itself from this systematic divide and conquer strategy.
There is no message all of us will agree to! And there is no simple message, where there is no simple problem We wouldn't be there, if the problem was simple ... as a matter of fact, there wouldn't be a problem, if it were simple. And let's be frank ... what would a centered movement look like? Didn't we have that already when we elected Obama for President? And what happened? The Republicans moved to the far right and made the middle look left! So in order to address the balance it might be necessary to counter the Tea Party with a left movement! Unfortunately politics is often not about solutions to the immediate problems, but all about tactics. And to counter the knuckleheads on the far right in Congress it might be good to vote for knuckleheads on the far left, so the middle in Congress has to work together to move things forward! At this moment the reasonable republicans in Congress are tide to the tea Party and they can't free them self ... so in order to help the middle, it might be necessary to tie the democrats to leftist knuckleheads! It sounds crazy and looks far fetched ... but in politics this actually works! Look at Germany ... it worked just beautiful there!
Beg to differ. The message is very simple and one that many on all sides can agree to - end the crony capitalism.
Yes ... nice ... but what is crony capitalism?
Here's a nice example for you odiug: http://occupywallst.org/forum/a-reason-to-protest-to-march-aig/
Yes ... this is a nice one ... but not really the problem ... although bad and i understand why you are upset! you are fighting symptoms and not the cause! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadow_banking_system
With all due respect..if you need an explanation of crony capitalism, you need to educate yourself. You can start here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crony_capitalism Your question sheds much light on what (and who) OWS is.
The sale of swaps, short orders, derivatives, computer trading, unfair trade, job loss and so on has nothing to do with crony capitalism ... It is not those who abuse the system ... it is the system it self! Or better, the lack of supervision and regulations!
Ummm...let's see...when I decide to risk my money buying or selling any of the instruments you list, I take on that risk and I profit or lose. If a big bank does the same, it takes the profits but doesn't take the losses, rather the losses are forcefully reimbursed by the taxpayer. (And don't tell me the banks paid back their TARP money, that is just smoke and mirrors) We can start with the banks, but there are other monied interest (e.g. insurance, pharma, etc) that are protected by our government as well. Your implied argument is a straw man.
True ... but here is where it gets not so simple anymore! the problem is, that all of them depend on it ... and that is a systematic failure and not a failed business! And that is why banks can blackmail us and you can not!
Preserve the status quo. Obama 2012!