Forum Post: Why I am proudly Anti-American...
Posted 13 years ago on Nov. 21, 2011, 12:05 a.m. EST by buphiloman
(840)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
1) I am a human being first and foremost.
2) Human beings do not belong to ANY state.
3) Humanity is a family that transcends National borders, there were humans LONG before there were nations, and there will be humans LONG after all the nations we know have ceased to be.
4) The United States Gov't has betrayed the human family, sold the human family into bondage and slavery and sickness and death so that a few could profit from the many.
5) So I am proud to say I am not "American". I am just a human being, with no National loyalties. My loyalty is to the family of humanity, now and always.
i think u make a good point. unfortunately, nationalism is so strong, that many don't understand/respect what ur trying to say
Pride in ones country isn't about it's government. National pride is felt for the people, it's traditions, it's culture etc... we are very diverse here in America, something no other nation on earth is.........
There is nothing wrong with "belonging" to a country..... even if you do not like it's political system.
I don't know, it would seem to me that identifying yourself with one country is limiting. But i have the same with sport clubs. I never understood why people feel the need to cheer for one club over another while they basically do the exact same thing.
We are one human race. And the sooner we realize that we are all deeply connected, the better it be.
i'm not sure what culture is left here anymore. nearly everything revolves around money, tv, sports, strip malls, drinking and slaving long hours at job maybe don't really enjoy to then pay loads of bills
many other countries are as diverse or more so than the states. u believe what u wish to, until u travel more then maybe u will understand
the so called freedoms here are becoming less, since my childhood. there are many warm caring people that's for sure, just like everywhere worldwide, it's a human condition, but often seems lost among some that have lost touch with inner self and with understanding their connectedness with whole
leaders here don't teach about love and community. it's only about profit and trying to control us.
i agree with this person, and i don't belong to any country. i am human from our divine creator living on the earth they provide for us
I like the United States and am proud of our accomplishments. While we have some dirt in our history I believe we have come a long way.
There is still more to do to make US better but I am proudly American.
I think its fine to be proud of ones nation but just to set the record straight. Norway is number one as far as standard of living followed by Australia and the Netherlands, the US is forth. The country with the highest GDP is Luxembourg, the US comes in 10th.
Switzerland is number one is environmental performance.
The nations with the least poor are Luxembourg, Norway and Australia.
197 countries have minimum wage.
The US ranks as the most overworked population in the world so I don't know if that means that the workers are being 'treated well'.
This is not the only country that allows the right to assemble and protest. You can do that in Denmark too without being pepper sprayed.
The US is the worlds 5th most generous nation. Australia ranks as number one.
And the US is not the only nation to treat the disabled with respect.
Its important to judge ones nation with some perspective. In other words, don't believe the hype. The US is the greatest military power in the world but its hardly the best in terms of living (unless of course you are very very wealthy)
I did not say this is the only country with a good standard of living or that treats the disabled with respect or with the least poor or the only country with a minimum wage. The fact that there are other good nations does not make this a nation I cannot be proud of. This is a great nation. Are we perect no, but I am glad I live here.
I was responding to how you referring to the nation as 'the best' when it is far from 'the best' in many areas save military might.
I said one of the best. I would consider being number 5 out of several hundred as being one of the best.
Luxemburg is the size of Rhode Island and filled with the richest 1% folks on the planet living in palaces. Norway is filthy rich from its oil and gas and mineral holdings and hundreds of years of imperialism.
The US is not the best in everything but it is a great nation and it's people are certainly generous.
It would be more accurate at this point to state that the US stands as the least of the best. Norway imperialistic? Since when? Whom did they colonize militarily or culturally? I think its rather rich for an american to speak of 'imperialism'. Let's look at america's resources shall we? The US has LARGER oil reserves than Norway, Norway simply decided to funnel their profits into the public good. The US is the least equitable society out of the best and creates more global problems than any other nation. If its all about perpetual invasions then the US can indeed be considered the best of the best.
Here is a comparison of the natural resources of Norway compared to the United States:
US: coal, copper, lead, molybdenum, phosphates, uranium, bauxite, gold, iron, mercury, nickel, potash, silver, tungsten, zinc, petroleum, natural gas, timber; note: the US has the world's largest coal reserves with 491 billion short tons accounting for 27% of the world's total
Here is Norway's: petroleum, natural gas, iron ore, copper, lead, zinc, titanium, pyrites, nickel, fish, timber, hydropower
So who has more resources? The US. Which nation chooses to use their resources toward the public good? Norway.
Let's look at education. From NYTimes article 2010
“Among O.E.C.D. countries, only New Zealand, Spain, Turkey and Mexico now have lower high school completion rates than the U.S.,” Mr. Schleicher said. About 7 in 10 American students get a high school diploma."
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/10/education/10educ.html
How can the US claim to remain the best with those statistics?
It gets worse. From Forbes:
"After leading the world for decades in 25- to 34-year-olds with university degrees, the country sank to 12th place in 2010. The World Economic Forum ranked the United States at a mediocre 52nd among 139 nations in the quality of its university math and science instruction in 2010. Nearly half of all graduate students in the sciences in the U.S. are now foreigners, most of whom will be heading home, not staying here as once would have happened. By 2025, in other words, the United States is likely to face a critical shortage of talented scientists."
http://www.forbes.com/sites/johnfarrell/2010/12/07/u-s-science-education-standards-of-mediocrity/
[Removed]
everything you you just said is not born out by the facts:
Our rivers, lakes, and wild place are shrinking and contaminated by Corporate waste/pollutants.
When you adjust for the buying power of the dollar our poor are AS poor as the poor of any nation, not to mention 1 in 3 people in the country are either poor, or on the poverty bubble.
Minimum wage is not a Living Wage.
Our workforce works longer hours for LESS pay and FEWER benefits than any workforce in the Western world.
We cannot assemble for protests without threat of POLICE VIOLENCE and harassment.
Only the 99% seem to understand generosity. The 1% are textbook hoarders.
We bar those with disabilities from employment, and the refuse to pay them disability pay when they cannot work.
Wake up. Stop watching Faux Noos. The America you are taking about does not exist anymore (if it ever did).
I rarely watch Fox News... not any more than I watch MSNBC, CNN, CSPAN. I get most of my information from books and the internet.
We still have issues but we are a great nation!
Sorry, but you're out of touch.
the majority of working Americans do not have 40 work weeks, paid vacation, and sick days. They work two or three jobs, 70-120 hours a week, with no health insurance, no paid leave, and taking time off means termination.
The jobs you describe are middle class/union jobs and they are disappearing as fast as the Corporate world can make them go away.
And don't be fooled by the "generosity of the 1%", they are wolves in sheep's clothing. Willing to give up a portion of their Obscene wealth in order to keep the rest.
You are wrong.
The majority of Americans 84.5% have health insurance we are movingt towards 100% coverage in the next few years.
JoeTheFarmer: on what planet are you farming?
US have the longest working/slavering hours and the shortest vacations on the planet (except for, maybe, North Korea). Also US are the ONLY western country without universal health care.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/05/opinion/05iht-edegan.1.6509809.html
So you are going to Michael Moore for facts. LOL
if on your planet NY Times is owned by Michael Moore, then you’re right again. "LOL" indeed ..
You are the product of the zionist indoctrination: zio-media, Holowood and the Whore House. You, and millions of other un(/under)educated, uncultured punks were brainwashed into believing that US is the greatest thing that ever happened since the Big Bang farted. When presented with numbers, facts, stats you cry Michael Moore or/and anti-Semitism. Perfect slaves in an Israeli Colony:
http://www.darkmoon.me/2011/america-vanquished-part-1-america-as-an-israeli-colony-by-dr-lasha-darkmoon/comment-page-1/
You really have no clue about working Americans do you?
1.) Our rivers and lakes are produce some the finest fishing in the entire world, period. 3) Should the guy working at the zoo selling me a $3 hot dog and $3 coke make $20 an hour? No 4) We work longer sure but look at Europe they get all these promises of vacation/benefits but now the check book is empty and promises are broken by who? the great Gov't 2) the "poor" here have flipping iphones and hdtv's come on man. I was on WIC while towing around a new bass boat and $200 rods (no longer on WIC BTW)
1.Standards of living are not important as they can be here today and gone tomorrow. It has happened in many forms and shapes throughout human history. a recent example is the Fukushima earth quake disaster in Japan. Some people believe that nature is controlled by man. They are hugely mistaken. Some people believe the population norms are constant. They are not only hugely mistaken but also very very uneducated. In fact they lack the basic High school education since just reading high school level books you can draw that conclusion. It is just a matter of observation and common sense.
2.Again the environmental conditions are not necessarily in human control. These type of arguments are made by politicians and if they are made by lawyers in a place like the supreme court for instance, they are usually treated as promotional junk because environmental conditions do not matter if you are raped, mugged or in general have experienced trauma!
3.Comparing percentages of poor people in different countries does not make any country less desirable to be in. Many countries have been poor and now enjoy a better a chance to improve and gain prosperity. We have witnessed China as a great example for having a growth rate of 11% a year. So being poor or not is just a question of national will not patriotism.
4.In global Economics Minimum wage is a rate established by economical conditions. Whether it is enforced by law or not does not matter since those conditions dictate the end result. In reality the minimum wage in United States, in terms of leverage value is much less effective than a "free market type" min. wage practiced elsewhere, when those laws either do not exist or ignored. But most countries now have minimum wage laws in today's global economy since it is better for them to control inflation and easier to regulate pension.
5.Treating the workers well in United States is not going to win you votes when American companies operating globally create factories overseas that treat workers from other countries unfairly: Nike for instance.
6.To assemble and protest is one thing, to get pepper spayed and shot with rubber bullets another.
7.Generosity is good only if it makes progress. So far United States has a very if not bad but controversial record of being generous. If generosity means giving kids Chocolate in Afghanistan well then do not be surprised if Taliban don't like Chocolate!
8.True respect for disable comes when they receive full benefits of being disabled that includes free food, free medication and free housing. Otherwise just being able to ride a bus as a disabled person will not make a dent.
You claim what he said is not born out by the facts. Show us the facts to back your statements then. You just sound like an angry protester who feels he is right and everyone else is wrong which is typical of OWS people.
Boy you sound like a commie SOB. If you don't like it here, then go the f%#ing hell out of here.
Every time some tells me the same thing, to move out of the country if I don't like it here, I tell them the same the thing...If I could...I would...And even though I do realize that you are probably a troll, it pisses me the f@#k off. In order to immigrate to a country you need to get a job there. In order to get a job there you need show the boss of the company you want to work for why he should give an immigrant the job rather than a citizen of the country. Second of all, why would you move to another country if all you friends, and most or all you family is in the US? Unless you are required by your company to immigrate, or if you are going to school outside the country, you would not want to move out, so it is only logical that you would stay in this country and express the changes you wish were made in this country. You know what also.
yes, damn those informed, intelligent, and ethical commies! lol. commies, dude this isn't 1955.
Anyone who espouses communism is not informed, intelligent or ethical. They are the exact opposite. And trying to be a humanist is great and all, but don't blame the one country in the world that has pressed others to do better for their people.
If "America" cares so much about people in those other countries, why spend trillions on pointless wars, when we could have raised the standard of living on the African continent considerably (and opened up new markets for American goods and investment) with the same money?
And it's not the 1960's either.
I feel very much the same way as you but I have also come to understand just how grand of an illusion America is. It upsets people greatly if you tell them you don't want to be a part of the illusion anymore. Illusions are all we have to keep us functioning and not become crazy and some people never learn to create their own and are just stuck in the ones made by people who have been dead a long time.
It is like religion. So so many people are stuck in that illusion and will never figure out that they are meant to make their own individual connection with 'god' or whatever you want to call it.
It's called "the American dream" because you have to be asleep to believe it! People are slowly waking up one by one it's so refreshing.
The thing is, you are confusing the US Government with America. Not the same thing. America is the People.
I speak 4 languages, and have friends all over the world, and what you say is true, that we're all human beings, first and foremost. I think that's important, by all means, and when I fight for justice here, it's with an eye towards justice everywhere (you know: think globally, act locally).
But I love America, my homeland, and I love my fellow Americans, and that is most of all why I protest.
How could you not love America? We invented Rock & Roll!
Hear, hear. I am willing to be a proud American. I say, make us proud Americans again! Correct all the wrong-doings! Give us a government truly of the people, by the people, for the people.
I pledge allegiance to the world, for nothing more, nothing less, than my humanity.I pledge allegiance to the world. Until the last lock breaks none of us are free. ~Strike Anywhere
Well buphiloman you are an unimaginable idiot.
Would you consider joining the KTC?
http://www.occupywallst.org/forum/make-a-stand-join-the-clan/
The Revolution starts here!
PaulRon 12!
Our country has been highjacked
END THE FED END THE TSA
[Removed]
[Deleted]
O beautiful for spacious skies, For amber waves of grain, For purple mountain majesties Above the fruited plain! America! America! God shed his grace on thee And crown thy good with brotherhood From sea to shining sea!
Seriously? Grow Up Joe.
Why is that childish?
I wish we would change the national anthem to that song.
It's a sad jingoistic, nationalistic, fantasy-land song. No better than "Deutschland Ueber Alles" or "Les Marseilles".
You've no idea how long for the day when we will look back on such songs with embarassment and disbelief.
It's a beautiful song. I don't even mind that God is mentioned and I am an atheist.
Anti-Nationalism is as evil as Nationalism. It is founded on the same roots. The principles of American government as proposed in the Declaration of Independence are what I am referring to when I proudly call myself an American. The powers granted to government by the Constitution could only ever have led to tyranny (A government which rules by the initiation of the use of force). They are un-American ideals and should be abolished. Specifically the exclusive right to coin money and fix its value, the commerce clause, and all other contradictions to the individual rights which stem from the right to life (which does not appear in the bill of rights).
go to canada and stop wasting american resources on yourself
Montesquieu would applaud your comments:
"A truly virtuous man would come to the aid of the most distant stranger as quickly as to his own friends. If a men perfectly virtuous, they wouldn't have friends." [Because a truly virtuous man would keep himself equally apart from all men.]
— Montesquieu [1689 – 1755], French social commentator and Enlightenment political thinker.
Montesquieu is famous for his articulation of the theory of separation of powers that forms the basis of our constitution.
One can be anti-the-american-government while being pro-American. That's what I am. Perhaps you are too.
Should we just live in tribes then? That what you are stating "your" idea is. The tribe either thrives or dies on their own. If they are weak and get taken over...then o'well.
Blaming the gov't is pretty weak, I am surely not rich by any means, but you know what I have the freedom to buy a truck, then buy a boat, buy all the rods and reels I want, and fish just about anywhere I want to. Can I do that in Europe? Heck no, why their govt says no.
Tribes are just as divisive as Nations, why would I endorse them. Just the opposite, we should live free ALL SUCH ARTIFICIAL DIVISIONS.
And, for the record, yes you can still buy a truck, and a boat and fish, pretty much where ever you please in Europe. I never had any hassle fishing or hunting when I lived in Europe, though I did need a license, just as you do in most US states.
What's sad is that ALL of you failed to see exactly what the OP is even talking about, open your minds and maybe you'll learn something. The OP was stating that his loyalty transcends all national barriers. He is loyal to human beings and not to a country, state, city, etc.
Nationality only breeds a division between people because we all think the group we belong to is better than one another. Same goes for race, gender, Religion, political affiliation, etc. He didn't start comparing America to other nations until YOU guys started to, and to tell him to "get lost" is close-minded and missing the point completely.
But don't worry, change is coming whether you like it or not. Nationality, Race, etc means NOTHING on the large scale. We are all humans and we should start treating each other like family and cut the division out.
@Carlito....glad to see that at least someone on this forum is awake. Until humankind learns to set aside our "National" divisions, as well as our race, religion, political, and sexual divisions, the human family will remain dysfunctional and weak. We have to meet the future of our species as ONE people, with ONE goal, and ONE common fortune.
Agreed. Just don't let these close-minded individuals distract you by telling you to "get lost". They just don't get it. Change is on the horizon, I feel it, sooner than later we will create this utopian socialism you speak of...
Then get the hell out of America
Yes, because there is no room in America for dissent, right?
So maybe you should move out of American.
I think the Beatles captured my sentiment quite nicely.
"Cry, baby, cry. By your mother's side. You're old enough to know better..."
If you have no national loyalty and your "family" transcends national borders, please, leave. America will not benefit from people like you.
So, if America was dissolved tommorow and replaced with a better, more just, more compassionate, society...you would be upset?
There, certainly, is room for improvement. But, I am not disavowing my nationality. My mother is not perfect, but I love her unconditionally. You seem to be focusing on the faults and ignoring all that is great.
Although you seem to desire unity and brotherhood, I believe that your attitude creates division. Being an American has little to do with American government. If you choose to separate yourself from a culture because you have lost faith in government, you alienate others that have less just governments than ours. Being an American is belonging to the great "melting pot" that no other country can claim. It means that we are DEVELOPING culture and tradition with every generation. It means patriotism and loyalty to your fellow Americans. Being American is a unique journey that was born from oppression and has succeeded through vision and hard work. Our government needs fixing, but that must be done by Americans. You can choose to remove yourself from the label, but no one can take that from me. And, for all that this great country has accomplished, I am proud.
PROUD TO BE AMERICAN
Too bad that most of the world doesn't see it your way. In fact some billions would kill you for your religion or genetics as well.
the question is: do you?
Ideally yes. Practically, can't. I am not sure that humans are ready to put aside nationalism yet. Look closely at the fervent nationalism in the world. We are a primitive species. Technology is far ahead of morality. We are governed by ego.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Z9WVZddH9w
I think what people are getting at is you pay taxes and are a citizen which means you are an American weather you like it or not till you denounce your citizenship. Being an American and a Citizen allows you to do certain things other human beings can not do elsewhere.
I get your point of being free and its sounds nice... Thought you basically have expressed Anarchism. Which is probably why you are going to get some heat.
We are all human beings and we should love life and humanity. We should also fight for a state that is truly democratic and evil/unjust influence is negated. Which is why I think you are here.
I could be wrong.
No nation-state is "truly democratic." By their nature they are exclusive clubs that divide the human family. True democracy can only occur when the entire family puts aside these silly, antiquated, fictions, and comes to make a common cause of justice, freedom, and compassion.
The US government is like any other nation state. Antiquated and easily manipulated by global influence. No need to hate the old man. The only need is to retire him.
Im sick of the USA! Sick of the government, sick of the laws, sick of the healthcare, sick of the douches and turds who get elected to the office of president, IM SICK OF IT ALL!!
Then do something positive.
My religion of choice: Antithetical Anti-American.
you should renounce your citizenship and move to a country who would accept you.
if there is one
or I could stay where I am, and work for a better world for all of the human family. Seems more efficient to me.
Good, then get the FUCK out of the US! Your a useless piece of shit anyway! Fuck all of you!
Cool. Anarchy. Now watch many more starve to death.
And in your world, all the streets are paved with cotton candy, and there's a starbucks on every corner.
There isn't a Starbux on every corner?
He's "proudly anti-American" but chooses to live in American. What a phoney.
So your a Globalist!!!
I'm not a "globalist", in fact I could not care less about globes. I am a HUMANist, I care about human people.
A humanist is another word for Atheist. Read all about it http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humanism The term Globalist is one that describes a person that identifies with no country or nationality. The term has been demonized in recent year because it has been used to describe off shore bankers and elites, but traditionally it was used to describe people with views like yours.
Actually, you are wrong. I am a religious humanist, not a secular humanist, nor an atheist. If you read the link just posted, you'd know the difference.
and i proudly will say GO FUCK YOURSELF but hell you follow in the foot steps of the OWS leaders oh i mean supporters, with your anti american bs and no borders ,one world, one government NWO crap
To point 4: The slavery part, I see, but death? We live long lives. Even the poor live much longer than, say, a Hatian, who can expect a 50% chance of being dead by age 5.
How many thousands of innocent civilians in Libya, Afghanistan, and Iraq have been murdered by US airstrikes, and labeled "collateral damage" in the last 10 years?
How is that slavery?
Hi. GTFO of our country then. You have no idea what slavery and bondage are like until you go to other countries. Lets see how you embrace the horrors across the world as being this utopian society.
How many other countries have you been to? I've been to Germany, Italy, France, Austria, Switzerland, The Czech Republic, Sweden, Norway, Lichtenstein, The Vatican City, Tunisia, Sicily, England, Canada, Mexico, Holland, Denmark, Belgium, and Spain.
Try going to Cuba, or Iran or Saudia Arabia, or Somalia, or the Sudan, or North Korea, or China,or Libya , or Zimbabwe.
P.S. Sicily isn't a country.
Tell that to the Sicilians! lol.
Seriously, I NEVER said other countries didn't have problems, real problems, and terrible inequalities.
I just don't feel like being an American means everything is A-OK and I should blindly worship at the alter of the society.
There is something special about America. People risk their lives to come here.
Been to all of those countries except Lichtenstein and Tunisia, but i can add, Egypt, Israel, Jordan, Brazil, China, Thailand, Vietnam, S Korea, Indonesia, South Africa, Jamaica, India, Myanmar, Laos, to the list. What is your point? And Sicily isn't a country
Simple. Leave. Go to another land. What you don't realize is that because of america, our ideals, our government, our laws, and our way of life you were born here. Go live in Iran and make the same statements as above. The secret police will be on your doorstep within hours and you'll never be seen again. I know, it really does suck here.
What part of "No national loyalties" do you not apprehend? I want no part of "Iran", any more than I do of "America". I want the human family to live, as one family, in peace, compassion, freedom, justice, and respect for all, and for everyone to have all that they need to live a life of meaning and value.
Call me crazy.
lay off the crack pipe.
Classy. What a marvelous assumption: anyone who disagrees with you is clearly a drug-addict, and no drug-addict could ever have an opinion that mattered.
Are you by any chance a Rush Limbaugh fan? Are you aware that for several years, he was broadcasting DAILY while high on illegally obtained quantities of Oxycontin, a psychoactive painkiller?
I think his opinions are wrong, but not because of his drug use.
sorry sir /madam, I don't listen to him.
[Removed]
Borders and countries do matter, you are just to stupid and hateful to know. Yeah, go live in another country and then tell me that nation states don't matter. I'll personally drop kick your sorry ass to the country of your choosing.
I have lived in several other countries, in Europe and the Americas. It didn't change my opinion. Sorry but the days of blinkered, ignorant, idolatrous worship of nationality are coming to an end.
No, please to to N. Korea, Iran , Lebanon, or any Middle Eastern country (except for the civilized , democratic, advanced Israel) wait till they capture you for whatever reason, then imprison you. Then you will be crying like a little baby ... 'oh, take me take back to the U.S. of A.' . You are pathetic. Countries do make a difference.
fuck off, zionist rabid rat!
Mr or Mrs Barkode, So i see that you are anti Semitic like most of OWS is. Oh wait ,you also mention a rabid rat; the rat that you are referring to probably ran away from the smelly occupiers to be in a more hygiene environment.
you can run, but you can't hide, punk
Is that a threat? in my case i don't need to hide or run. like most good conservatives i can protect myself.
[Removed]
[Removed]
[Removed]
I read you replies here .....You seem to be lumping the country with the government. America is much more than just what is done in Washington DC.
I am a proud American and I do love this country. I can separate what this government has done or is doing from the people and the places and all that really is very unique and good in America.... it is sad that you can not.
There used to be a radio show I listened to years ago and the host's tag line was.
"I love my country, but I fear my government"
Perhaps you should rethink your feelings about America
I don't feel anything for "America." I despise the bought and sold Gov't. I could care less about the political and social institutions, etc... But I do love human people, and the wonder of sunrise in the Appalachian Mountains, or the sound of the Snake River rushing through a canyon.
[Removed]
Well you have obviously missed my point..... and you probably need to live some place where your hatred for this country won't interfere with your sensibilities.
I am a human being first.
But I am an American too.
The United States government hasn't betrayed my ancestors, it had given them a country to worship freely, to work, buy a home, gave them economic security.
then you are one of the lucky few. i don't know a single person with economic security. Everyone I know is either one medical crisis, or one dip of the recession away from destitution.
[Removed]
More icing on the Freak cake I see. I'll bite,are you currently an American citizen? If you are,will you be formally renouncing your citizenship?
I am a US Citizen, and no, I have no plans. What would be the point?
Formally and legally renouncing your citizenship would prove to yourself #1, and to the OWS movement #2 that you are a man of your word and have the integrity and courage of your convictions. If you do not do this now it means you are what I suspected,a lying,bullshitting little snot that is all talk and no walk. That is the point.
I fail to see the connection? I live in a state. It's like living in a building. One is as good as the rest. And if this one were destroyed I'd move on to another. What could I gain from needlessly burning bridges? I have spent a few years living in Europe. But I grew up here, and I like it here. I just don't feel any bond of loyalty to anything called "America".
I'm sorry I thought I was dealing with someone who was coherent and aware. My apologies.
way to dodge the point.
[Removed]
"I grew up here, and I like it here. I just don't feel any bond of loyalty to anything called "America"."
This is a statement made by someone who is either mentally not all there or someone who is born in another country and is lying about being a citizen of the US. No loyalty to ones country is a sign of a traitor in the works or again,someone who is not all together there.
Take your pick,I don't give a shit.
Or it is a sign of someone who has a evolved a sensibility that values humanity of nationality. Imagine for instance the from thinking of oneself as a Virginian or a Carolinian or a New Yorker, to thinking of oneself as simply an "American". We can document how that shift occurred by looking at writing from around the end of US Civil War. A change is self-image occurred. Another one is going to occur very soon.
Or do you think it is really man's nature to self divide into abstract "nations"?
Your Professors have done a great job on you. Convoluted thoughts in a post seem to be the norm from you progressives.
Your're an example of devolution and regression.
You sound just like an OWSer...
Thanks for the compliment. I cannot think of a better one.
... AND a communist
I am NOT a communist, I'm a utopian socialist, there is quite a difference.
You ARE a communist.
Communism is not real tangible thing. No developed society has ever been communist. It is a goal to be reached...eventually. Nobody is actually a communist just like nobody is actually an anarchist. They are just ideas. Someone might hold communist or anarchist ideas and even implement those ideas into some action but to be an actual communist or anarchist is almost impossible for an individual and definitely impossible for a whole society.
I personally aspire to be an anarchist/communist but in the real world that translates to socialist or utopian socialist.
[Removed]
You sir/madam/ are an ingrate.
How so? I am profoundly grateful to the PEOPLE, the world over, who have shown me compassion and respect. I am not grateful to some strange, abstract entity, "America" that I have never met, spoken to, or been shown any compassion or respect from.
people all over the world have no idea who or what you are. America has given you everything you have be it real or intellectual.
I have friends, family, and colleagues, all over the world. They certainly know who I am, and I am grateful for all that they have done to help me.
What have they done to help you? be specific.
Fed me, clothed me, sheltered me, and given me respect, love, and support (both financial and spiritual).
You have no family in the USA, no family or friends that respect or love you? Do you work?
Yes, most of my family, friends, and colleagues are in America, but THEY love and support me, not some faceless, abstract, thing called America.
America is not an abstract .Like it or not, they and you are America. Do you work? Do they work?
Lol. So when someone challenges your assumptions, you simply redefine terms to make them meaningless?
And yes most work, now if only we could all get paid a just wage for our work.
A just wage? What do they do?
Then feel free to move to Spain
I am also anti-Spain, that's the ENTIRE point.
What country do you live in? Just curious...
The United States, but I don't live here because I support the state per se. I live here because I was born here, and my immediate family and friends are here, and I speak the language, and I enjoy what is left of the natural beauty of the land, and my work is here (for now).
After 7 years of failure,the people of Ppain voted out their liberal,greenie politicians yesterday. They now have a conservative govt.
Then move somewhere where the entire economy has already collapsed like Greece. Nor much you can screw up over there.
I am Anti-Greece as well. What part of "no National loyalties" do you not apprehend?
Do you pay taxes? Do you consume goods? How do you contribute if you don't belong to a state, country, or nation?
Contribute to whom?
Yes I work and pay taxes and consume goods like anyone else. But I could frankly care less if the US Gov't vanished tomorrow, as long as whatever replaces it is something the treats the human family with justice, compassion, and decency.
No I get it. I just want you out of my country. Maybe you could go under the ocean. Would be easy for no one to ever find your useless corpse
Yeah, no I don't think you do get it. This person does not want to be affiliated with a police state claiming to be a "free country" spreading it's prosperity and warmth across the globe for all to enjoy. You are clearly very proud of the murderous imperialistic war machine?
What imperialistic war machine are you talking about? The U.S. was never an imperial power, it usually won a war, then left, with some exceptions, but nothing like the European powers, or Muslim countries of years gone. You are estupido.
LOL was? Are you serious?
yes i am. read your history, you moron.
Name calling is not needed. Thanks. I was talking about present day not history.
[Removed]
I do love me some killing, raping, and pillaging. Did I mention killing babies as well?
Every morning I eat a baby seal for breakfast and I like to end the day beating gays and minorities.
sigh. Why the hostility? Do you hate the human family so much that you would self-identify as an "American" rather than as a "Human Being"?
I am a human being but being loyal to my country comes first. I dpubt you would feel the way you do if you have been attacked by gang members before.
Actually I have been a victim of violent crime. I have also been homeless (as teenage kid). In both cases it was not "America" that came to my aid/defense. It was people, human beings, who showed me compassion and decency.
Why be loyal to a "country?" i don't really understand. I do understand loyalty to the human family however. I would die for the human family, gladly, but I would not die for "America."
The human family does nothing for me. My actual family does though
so then, by the inverse of Leibniz's Law, we can conclude that your family is NOT human. Do you live with some other species?
Its like arguing with a god damned Christian. Yes. I actually live with apes who are far more reasonable than you.
lol. If your family is human, then they are your human family. In which case the human family does care and provide for you. You might not care about the rest of the human family to the same degree, but unless you are a sociopath you care about them far more than you do about the impersonal, indifferent institutions of the inhuman state.
I care about my immediate family and not everyone in the entire human race.
We're all connected. You cannot care for one and not the other. As least that is how I see it. My happiness, relies in part on the people around me being happy. and their happy relies in turn on the people around them and so on etc... eventually in order to be truly secure and truly happy the entire human family must treat each other with compassion, justice, and (dare I say) love.
Love is good and all but to be honest. I don;t give a shit about people three degrees away from me.
Let's sing Kumbaya and everything will be right. Why don't you go to Iran, N. Korea, Lebanon or Palestine and say 'I love the Jewish people', see how they treat you.
[Removed]
Or better yet, Egypt.