Forum Post: Why do OWS protesters wear the Guy Fawkes mask?
Posted 12 years ago on Nov. 22, 2011, 8:29 a.m. EST by Spade2
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Seriously, why are they glorifying this terrorist? He tried to blow up the parliament building in the name of Catholicism! Shouldn't they be supporting a symbol of non-violence like MLK or Ghandi?
I totally understand that reasoning. And i kinda agree with you. But the thing is, everyone have their own way of expressing themselves. As long as they don't promote violence, then i don't see a problem.
A Ghandi or MLK mask sound like a cool idea though! hehe
They wear the mask because they think it is some cool form of expression against the government. Most, probably have no idea who or what Guy Fawkes was, but they have seen a movie with a guy wearing the mask fighting a corrupt government, so they assume that is its origin. They may as well be wearing bin Laden masks as there was little difference between the two ideologically.
The root cause is that filmmakers were just absurdly timid for years after the September 11th attacks. Even in the 2003 fantasy Return of the King (the final installment of the Lord of the Rings trilogy), the filmmakers remarked in their commentary that they had needed to make the final collapse of Sauron's Eye look particularly strange and unrealistic in order to avoid any bad associations. For years people were deluged with shows and series where spies were the heroes, and seemingly never a cross word against them. I can assure you, in 2006, when a film came out glorifying protests and a fictional act of terrorism against a fascist government, it seemed like it must have fallen from some alien planet.
The movement of Anonymous in a sense is nothing new - certainly in the 90s people supported privacy and free speech, prowled around in hacker communities, cracked expensive dongled software, protested Scientology, etc. The V for Vendetta meme was just overlain on a culture, but didn't really start it. And yes, to older people, it does seem like an aging fad ... time for Fawkes to join Eldridge Cleaver in the retirement home.
Yeah I bet Alan Moore's pissed that these people are taking V for Vendetta seriously only because of that shitty movie they made without his consent.
where in the movie did you think he blew it up in the name of catholicism? did you watch the whole thing?
The actual historical man known as Guy Fawkes tried to blow up the parliament building to assassinate the king and restore England to a catholic monarchy, look it up...
maybe in real life, doesn't seem that way at all in the movie.
Why do the tea party and other right-wing political groups assert "Second Amendment remedies" and threaten politicians with watering the tree of liberty with the blood of tyrants should politicians not capitulate to them?
Are you trying to justify violent symbols with others that make violent statements? Do you really think that makes it OK?
I didn't say that did I? No.
Radical social change movements inherently imply a propensity for violence. That is the underlying psychology that motivates leaders to attempt to appease social movements or capitulate to them. American Revolutionaries used tar & feather and hanging in effigy.
It is the nature of all mass movements to, no matter how non-violent they are in reality, imply the potential for violence. It then is up to the political leaders to avert that potential with political change.
Did you?
Someone made the statement and you posted a "look they do it" argument. At least that is what I took from your statement.
MLK and Ghandi never implied a "potential for violence". I believe it is counter productive to the cause to display symbols of violence.
I did not say that MLK or Gandhi implied it.
It is inherently implied in any mass political action. The 'what if this turned ugly' question is there in any and every movement gathering of the masses.
You can believe what you want to believe. Others have the same right to believe what they want to believe. If what you believe so conflicts with the representations of others then it is on you to disassociate yourself. You have neither the right nor the ability to force your values on others. People will do what people will do.
What I have a problem with is that others pervert the intentions of the entire movement because of what a few people believe. They have a right to wear symbols of violence yes but I believe it is counterproductive and have a right to try to persuade them not to.
The perfect example is your "exercise out second amendment right" statement. 99% of the Tea Party do not believe that yet the Vice President labeled the tea part as terrorists pointing to that one statement.
It as a lot more than one statement with the tea party. it is a consistent pattern of implied and insinuated violence toward American government officials and leaders by both tea party members and leaders.
You just proved my point.
That is exactly what people are saying about OWS and it is not true. 99.999% of tea party folks are non violent middle class 99% folks.
You proved my point with your assumption about the tea party based on a few nut jobs.
You have no concept of political crowd dynamics.
and it is totally dishonest and disingenuous to assert that it is only a few oddball extremists in the tea party who assert violence. YOU are the first person I have EVER heard disavowing the tea party threats of violence. Shit, there are two tea party presidential candidates and a tea party former vice presidential candidate who have overtly used violence in their speech making rhetoric an organizing.
Give me a freakin break. I am not some idiot tea party dullard who believes anything a tea party propagandist blathers.
On the morning of the Glenn Beck tea party rally in D.C. thousands of tea party gun toting crazies gathered at a park outside D.C. because police would not allow them into the city carrying guns. So they came to the Beck rally with signs saying "We didn't bring our guns - this time". No one in the tea party denounced them. Glenn Beck cheered them from the podium and so did the crowd.
Stop lying!
Thank you for proving my point again.
You are basing the motives of several hundred thousand people on the actions of a few hundred.
You are so dishonest.
To you the tea party does not advocate for the Second Amendment.
Well friend advocacy for the Second Amendment in modern times is all about right-wingers using their Second Amendment advocacy as a threat to the government to do as they dictate or they will declare the politicians tyrants and inflict Second Amendment violence on them.
Anyone who denies this is a LIAR. Anyone who denies that the tea party supports the Second Amendment for, as tea party presidential candidate Michele Bachman puts it, "Second Amendment remedies", for America's political problems is LYING!
I never said the tea party does not advocate for the Second Amendment. When did I say anything against the second amendment or that the tea party was against it? Where is that coming from?
I have no problem with the fact that the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.
Advocacy for the Second Amendment is advocacy for armed insurrection and assassination of American government appointed and elected leaders should you decide that they have become tyrannical.
The ONLY reason that the GOP the Democrats and Obama capitulated to the small tea party minority in Congress was because of this tea party Second Amendment advocacy threat of armed insurrection and assassination. Its what Second Amendment advocacy is all about.
You understand exactly the power of mass movements and their inherent threat of insurrection. You are happy to support the tea party Second Amendment insurrection threat but you try to dissuade others from implying the use of insurrection symbols such as the Guy Fawkes mask. Hypocrite.
How is that evasion and denial. Nobody capitulated because of second amendment threats. In fact nobody capitulated really. They are still spending like crazy. They are still giving subsidies to oil and gas, ethanol, farmers, foreign countries, banks.
I agree that the tea party was hijacked by the GOP, Koch brothers, and the right wing. I can tell you though most of the people are hard working law abiding Americans.
The problem is the media likes to show us the extremes in any movement. How many times did I have to see that picture of the supposed OWS protester shitting on a police car? Just because they show it over and over does not mean that everyone at OWS is shitting on cars. Open you mind and stop believing the media.
That is actually not the reason.
They reason is because they elected candidates sympothetic to their cause of fiscal responsibilty, limited government, and free markets. Before the 2010 election congress was 2/3 democrats. After it was more than half Republican and most of those elected were first term candidates.
You you really think Obama is afraid a a few hundred right wing nuts with liberty or death signs?
The problem is that after elected most of the new republicans turned into the same old same old.
Evasion and denial.
Your sputtering and stuttering.
You've got nothing. Get back out to your barn a find something to hump cause you'll get no satisfaction from me.
I wear my mask in solidarity with the concept of Anonymous. Its about rising up against tyranny & oppression. Plus the movie "V" was cool ;-)
That movie sucked, the comic was way better and was about how annarchy is no better than fascism and vice-versa
That's your opinion.
That's fact, but sorry I didn't mean to offend
No offense taken. You're entitled to your opinion.
Technically it was how the author's vision of what anarchy is is no better than the author's vision of what fascism is.
Yes the graphic novel was better but that does not mean the movie sucked.
True, there other reasons that movie was horrible...
[Removed]
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/guest-post-only-way-change-system
They don't really want non violence. They may say that, but they really want it to turn violent, and hope people die like martyrs. It serves the cause. Rules for Radicals, Serbian Revolutionaries, Arab Spring. OWS leaders are following these various guidelines and lying to their supporters about what they really want. Complete government overthrow. They need violence to foment more support, but have to make it seem like they didn't do anything to deserve it. All very carefully planned out.
Spot on. Guy Fawkes mask-another Warner Bros property-hilarious that buying this mask enriches the people they claim to want to beat...while Anon-give me a break-that is a government CIA hack infiltrating everyone and everything where the order from chaos thing seems to fit-and Wikileaks, an obvious limited (government) hangout was so overhyped by these Anon shills it was so overplayed I can't believe anyone paying attention is dim enough to not know this. It's called controlled opposition. Hegelian Dialectic - thesis+antithesis=synthesis (order from chaos). They frame both sides of every issue, create their own strawman boogieman, start the fight with their shills, draw the fools to both sides, squash it all, and the 1% gets their martial law-and OWS well intentioned participants bleed for nothing. Learn where you are folks http://www.gemworld.com/USAVSUS.HTM. You are helping fulfill the final stages of The communist manifesto whether you realize or not. Read it or you won't see it coming. This is such an old trick
What the OWS people want is a fair shot at obtaining a good life for themselves and their families. A place to live, health insurance, a job with a livable wage, a table to put food on, an education that doesn't leave them as indentured servants for the rest of their lives. There are many people who looted the system and took away these things from millions of Americans. So the people protest because they want their lives back. Of course they would rather not use violence. Why use violence if you can achieve your goals without it?
I agree that there are alot of OWS people who want their life back. But the people who started this movement, and who are running the show, do not want that. They want anarchy and marxism. They are playing the protesters like puppets and are very happy to see them be martyrs. Here is a question, when is a sheep suddenly not a sheep anymore? Millions of Americans are sheep to this corrupt system. Now suddenly following these radical leaders of OWS they aren't sheep anymore? Ha. BAAAHHHH. Stop being sheep and turn out these radicals who are working against the OWS best interest.
How are you so sure of that? If that's the case, you can easily get involved as a member of the GA and figure out who's in charge and tell them whatever you want to tell them. People are not going to stop protesting because they are standing up for their rights. What else do you expect them to do?
I am 100% positive. And i am working on going a different direction down in my area. Something that will actually work. And it has nothing to do with protesting. It is direct action in a format that will be acceptable to all Americans with a plan that is beneficial to all Americans, proposed and enacted in a way that does not collapse our government or our economy, but regains control of both by the citizens. The people in New York are nuts.
so what's the plan, man?
The GA will not allow violence ... by design.
Ignorant statement. They know its going to happen, it always does. Particularly when people are incited to such levels of passionate rage. OWS protesters are just sheep to the anarchist leaders. Baaahhh!
anarchist leaders!?!
lulz ... talk about ignorant.
Try reading about them. I know who they are. Do you?
who are they?
Degraw ... anonymous/wikileaks/zerohedge? If you think your dealiing with anarchist ... you are mistaken.
How could they stop it?
Well, they can disapprove of it, and make clear that it is not OWS policy. There are a lot of very bright, very dedicated people involved, and they will do their best to keep OWS on the right track.
The forbearance of the UCal groups at Davis and Berkeley have been an inspiration. Talk about non-violence in action!
Nobody will care in a few days. The radicals are using this incident of people breaking the law and not following police orders as an instance of police abuse. In reality the radical OWS leaders are sad that the people weren't physically beaten instead of just sprayed. Broken skulls help the movement a lot more than watery burning eyes.
Wrong.
The brain damage to the marine energized OWS alone.
The pepper spray has shifted attention of many in the greater public, because the students were non-violent and stayed non-violent. Their non-violence impressed people who weren't otherwise paying attention.
Please prove to me where donations are soaring for the movement? That is if you can prove who is in control of the donations and the SPokes Council hasn't embezzled the money already.
GA ... is the only form of what one could consider leadership. You must not understand OWS?
HAHAHAHA. You really think the GA is the leadership? you are clearly misguided. They are just the most prone to cultish idealism that the leaders can use to legitimize the movement to the masses. That was really funny. haha ill be laughing all day about that statement.
Wow, didn't expect this comment but maybe you're right. Fuck it, we'll find out sooner or later
History repeats itself. people should pay attention.
The real reason is that it looks funny. That was why most people wear it.
Yeah, funny in the sense of "I'm not gonna take this movement seriously" kind of way
You are right and you are wrong, that whole "history repeats itself" works both ways