Forum Post: Why are we scared to wave communist flags at Zuccotti Park?
Posted 13 years ago on Oct. 14, 2011, 10:45 a.m. EST by ArrestAllCEOS
(115)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
The People have woken up and realized that capitalism is a failure. We will replace it with a more socially compassionate system such as socialism or communism. Don't believe the lies that the hate-filled right-wingers tell you about how these systems have failed in history. They just were not implemented correctly. We can do it my brothers and sisters. THE TIME HAS COME FOR A REVOLUTION!
A system without money and greed. Everyone will truly get their fair share.
Capitalism is not a failure. Unchecked capitalism is a failure. If we had a government that looked out for the people then capitalism would not fail. Do not raise the flags of communism, which helped to create so many powerful weapons of nuclear destruction. Lets be more intelligent than that and not be doomed to repeat the future.
“Capitalism is not a failure” Corporate capitalism may.
You do realize the US manufactured way more nukes than the USSR, right?
Yes I do, I'm not into arguing about whose atrocities were larger. As I said before, unchecked capitalism is bad. Unchecked capitalism is a failure. I am saying that there is a much more intelligent way for a society to operate than communism. How about intelligent capitalism. I believe in freedom of choice, not allowing the sociopaths of society who currently run our major corporations to step directly into the government sphere directly as would happen with communism. In communism, the corporations wouldn't even need to influence our government with money, they would be the government. Don't be so foolish to repeat the past.
I believe in freedom of choice, too. Communism! You talk of corporations as if they can ever be divorced from capitalism. As if this isn't simply how capitalism operates, "crony" or otherwise.
I think communism has some interesting points to be discussed, but in and of itself, it is a failed system. It's like going back to that girlfriend that you broke up with because it just didn't work out, but now since you're a little lonely you are starting to think of the really good parts of her but not remembering all the shitty ones. We are WAY more intelligent than that now.
If I were to exist at the end of the the French revolution and said that the Jacobins were the only possible outcome for capitalism, I would be as wrong as you are now. And I could use every argument you've just used.
OK, I see now that you are more concerned with the past than being a force in the future...good luck with that.
I'm saying you've no idea what significance the past has. You want to "move past" it all, but you really don't know exactly what you're moving past.
The main objective of these protests needs to be first and foremost getting any corporate and or private money our of our political system. We should have elections financed by our tax dollars. Then the politicians in place would be looking out for the needs of their true constituents, the people. It should be considered treason for a company to put their moneny in our system to control our politics, and subvert the will of the people. Then when we have our politicians actually doing the bidding of the public, we can have true votes and real politicians not associated with political parties, which should be against the law as well. We would have electric cars and much more closer to a "green" revolution if money was not in politics to have politicians support bills that benefit the oil companies. This is the problem from which all others stem. If a company were to try to subvert the will of the people by committing the treason that should be buying "our" politicians, then that company should be put to financial death and the money that once belonged to it should be given to the public sector and used for the good of the people. Maybe in the form of developing large indoor highrise greenhouses where we can grow food indoors, and have people go who do not currently have money or a place to stay or work, and they can do work there, eat, shower, stay and get the help they need to get back on their feet. What I'm saying is, capitalism, although since being unchecked has caused many great atrocities, also promotes creativity, and as humans, we need creativity to survive. We need to develop a system that is more intelligent than the one we have in place today, and those that have been in place in the past as well.
Read my above post. You have no idea what I know, but your vague arguments certainly veil you lack of insight.
"...which helped to create so many powerful weapons of nuclear destruction."
As if a Capitalist nation wasn't the only nation to ever use a nuclear weapon in war? As if a Capitalist nation wasn't the nation with the largest arsenal of nuclear weapons?
do you think I care whose ball was bigger. That is a childish argument.
I just don't understand what your point is. I'm curious if you'd like to explain it.
You seem to be against Communism because it created nuclear weapons--which I can infer from your post you deem to be unethical creations. Capitalism has created more unethical weapons, so wouldn't that, by your logic, make Capitalism MORE unethical?
What I am saying is, Communism DID create nuclear weapons, just as Capitalism did. An yes, I think they are horrible. What I do think is that within the current Capitalist system, that doesn't have a government that looks out for the interest of its citizens, we will continue to move forth with the industrial military machine that is currently allowed to operate because of a government that is looking to satisfy the desires of their corporate sponsors...not of each and every citizen of the country, as was intended to be the case. Our government has some serious flaws! it has allowed itselt to be co-opted by corporations like Haliburton and big oil companies which make LOTS of money off of war. We went to Iraq to satisfy the needs of those companies.
The main objective of these protests needs to be first and foremost getting any corporate and or private money our of our political system. We should have elections financed by our tax dollars. Then the politicians in place would be looking out for the needs of their true constituents, the people. It should be considered treason for a company to put their moneny in our system to control our politics, and subvert the will of the people. Then when we have our politicians actually doing the bidding of the public, we can have true votes and real politicians not associated with political parties, which should be against the law as well. We would have electric cars and much more closer to a "green" revolution if money was not in politics to have politicians support bills that benefit the oil companies. This is the problem from which all others stem. If a company were to try to subvert the will of the people by committing the treason that should be buying "our" politicians, then that company should be put to financial death and the money that once belonged to it should be given to the public sector and used for the good of the people. Maybe in the form of developing large indoor highrise greenhouses where we can grow food indoors, and have people go who do not currently have money or a place to stay or work, and they can do work there, eat, shower, stay and get the help they need to get back on their feet. What I'm saying is, capitalism, although since being unchecked has caused many great atrocities, also promotes creativity, and as humans, we need creativity to survive. We need to develop a system that is more intelligent than the one we have in place today, and those that have been in place in the past as well.
The system we have now I don't see as Capitalism, but rather as Corporatism--and I think you'd agree with that sentiment.
Your second paragraph describes a society that is more closely related to a Socialist Republic, as opposed to what our current nation is PERCEIVED to be, which is a Capitalist Democracy (which it's not).
I agree on your points on the greenhouses. I think our economic troubles are largely held in the hands of this corporate farming economy we have in place.
I don't disagree. I believe that we shouldn't even call the current system we live under capitalism. It falls more in line with a new system called convoluted corporate dictatorship.
I would have to agree; I would argue that true capitalism was at its strongest under the New Deal, and that what we have now is part of the decay series, if you will, of improperly managed capitalism. The idea of a capitalist system is that goods and services are allowed to trade on an open market and individual markets are kept as close to perfect competition as possible.
The latter half of this statement is the part of capitalism that can decay very quickly if not maintained by an active government through appropriate taxation, fairly involved regulation, and consistent monitoring of individual markets. In short, capitalism works incredibly well but is not very stable, and what we're seeing now is what happens when it manages to defeat those policies intended to stabilize it.
Now, as far as resurrection and restabilization procedures go, I personally would look to the New Deal as the model most likely to bring the country around and I look to OWS as the people most likely to demand implementation of New Deal-style policies to bring capitalism back around to where it belongs.
Communism is scaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaary. Also, "communism" in the USSR, and many other countries was used to rationalize how a select few could or should hold all the marbles. Sound familiar?
We don't need more -ism's. Or -acy's, like the Tea Party's Confederacy. What we need is a government for the people, by the people.
How much did you get paid for this post?
Have you forgotten what happened to Jews under Stalan's Russia? What about the KGB and the Gulag? You consider that freedom? I'm with davidmichael...communism is a failed system where greedy criminals just step into office to get around policies. ALL examples of communism are failures. China has rampant human rights violations and is basically a dictatorship with a capitalist economy. The entire country of Cuba is in poverty. North Korea is a dictatorship without ANY kind of economy and Russia is all jacked up from the years of national resource mismanagement and is one of the most corrupt Democracies around.
Because the majority of the real 99% doesn't want communism or socialism!
mmm, I think OWS,likes capitlasim, but what is has hapend last years, is that there is no more real CAPITLASM , in a real capitalism, losers like banks, dont get the money form the FED, or from more TAX, even companys like GM, should break or make themshelfes eficient.
The truoble is not CAPITALISM by itself, the truoble is corruption, or even the actual "DEMOCRATIC" system, and the conextions to the suposed CAPITALISM....
The DEMOCRATIC system should encourage to take care of the bottom line , children(health education), olders(health, pensions) , public saftle.... but should no ways intercept on "BIG TO FAIL" like banks ,industries ,.....
Umm I don't know if you had gotten the memo or not but this isn't about promoting communism or socialism, its about reforming our current system. fuck communism. it doesn't work. There's not a single successful communist country in the world.
And who do u trust to divey out the money? The wonderful politicans who got you in this mess in the first place?
Actually orthodox communism is as bad as orthodox capitalism. Anyone who ascribes wholeheartedly to any system of socio-economics or politics as a cure-all for the naturally occurring social ills is in for a serious let down.
We don't wave a communist flag because we are Americans..we wave the American flag. But no one is preventing you from waving that flag. Go over to the park and wave a communist flag if it makes you feel better. Uhh...yes you can actually do that because this is not a communist country which would disallow that sort of behavior from its citizens.
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A lot of undercover tea bag parties people are here pretending to be radical liberals, LOL. Why do the tea parties hate this movement so much, or is it their financial backers who hate it? KrOtCH Bros rule that show!
Disinformation, stop responding to this guy as if he is serious, he isn't.
Communism is perhaps the most structured form of greed conceivable. The wealth of the nation and all of its commodities go towards party members, while the people wallow in poverty and oppression.
Capitalism provides a system of competition and profit motives that motivate competing corporations and companies to produce the highest quality goods at the lowest price, as long as the economy itself is stable and sound.
Yep, the fair share for those who don't work is the same as those who do.
Yep, the fair share for those who don't work is the same as those who do.
USSR....That worked well.
This world has fought communisom for years. Yes, the thought looks great on paper, yet it DOES NOT WORK when the human gets put into it. Also, look at China, which is communist country, Cuba also. Look at their unemployment rates, their living conditions, their way of life. THe rich are still rich and living in wonderlands, yet the middle/lower class people live in holes in the walls and struggle to keep their families safe and fed. Why would we want to have a governement system like that?
I don't see why people still call China communist when it houses more fortune 500s than any nearby country.
ArrestAIICEOS is obviously a troll from the Breitbart camp. Stop feeding trolls.
Obvious troll is obvious. Stop trying to breed dissension. Stick to things EVERYONE would agree with
I think its because the movement right now in time is more about what we don´t want anymore.
Because whenever communism is mentioned we're met with the same old arguments that have been repeated ad nauseum by people who have really no idea what communism is.
This is true. Perhaps we should just keep our communist ideas/roots more secret until we can achieve more power and then implement them on the masses with an iron fist (for their own good of course)
nothx
Viva Fidel! No I´m not serious here, but I do believe Cuba can teach some good lessons. And its not so much the economy or politics I´m talking about, more even the way most Cubans I encountered (2 month trip in Cuba in 1995) where friendly, educated, sharing and smiling. I suppose in some way like the 1% in the USA but they even share more percentagewise :-)
What country does the communist flag represent? Why not wave the American flag? Isn't that what this protest is all about...the rights of Americans?
I don't get it...are you suggesting this country abandon the principles, laws, rules, and regulations that have been misdirected by a few towards the American Peoples? I see nothing wrong with the Constitution, it's amendments or the right of individuals to petition the government for economic changes for the betterment of Society. Yet, to abandon our flag and support some unknown entity that has nothing to do with this country would be a grave mistake!
socialism and communism would only work on a small scale with a decentralized government which would not be able to regulate the actions of corporations. anyone should be allowed to make as much money as they can, but politicians need to be ethical to control the destruction of our planet.
"politicians need to be ethical" LOL LOL LOL Please tell me you didn't say that with a straight face.
People need to stop hating so much on everyone's comments and ideas. We are no better than those we are protesting against if we turn this online forum into online bullying. Everyone's voice deserves to be heard and respected whether you agree with what they are saying or not. Solidarity is the only way to win!
yeah right just fall in line
no, be a jerk
A system without money or greed cannot exist since people are involved. There has always been differing classes of people - even in communist utopias. I am interested in hearing how enlightened you are that finally someone can implement communism correctly. I think you might be surprised what would happen if capitalism wa to totally disappear. Normally people like you don't survive!
Here is a good example from our brothers and sisters in Philadelphia: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpo7NuZ3AH8