Forum Post: Who Thinks Ron Paul Is A Dolt?
Posted 13 years ago on Oct. 12, 2011, 2:01 a.m. EST by RG32
(81)
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I sure don't! Only honest politician in Washington D.C. What are we going to do about the liar and war monger Obama? I will be voting for Dr. Paul. He is the only hope we have to turn this country around.
Any liberals want to openly declare that they have been betrayed by Obama, the liar and war monger? Maybe tell us why you support Ron Paul in 2012?
Paulsies need to stop trying to hijack this movement. You have your own already, stop trying to take the only outlet for progressive anger in this country.
Paul supporters believe in divorcing government from business as much as anyone in this movement - why push allies into enemies? It is entirely counter productive.
Corporate greed is the root of the problem. The economic collapse of 2008 was the result of systematic fraud by the various financial institutions that make up Wall Street. It had no government input, save for the bailout that picked up the pieces after the fact.
The only thing that can keep Wall Street in check is the government. That was the lesson we learned from the Great Depression, and it's the lesson that needs to be relearned today. The government needs to be restored to a state where it is performing that vital function once again. Paulsies and teabaggers in general want to destroy the government and empower Wall Street to act as they wish unchecked. They have been sold the poison as the cure.
Corporate greed is mandated by government when the SC ruled that the only duty CEO's have is for the immediate profit of shareholders and could be removed and sued if they combined that with any other concerns (long term business survival, environmental concerns, public reaction). So the greed is mandatory and a relatively new development. This problem is government action in this case.
Wall Street has been kept in check much better by consumers. When apple didn't make products in demand by the market it suffered compared to Microsoft - when it started making products in high demand it surged past Microsoft. This is what the market does - rewards companies for doing what the public wants done. It punishes those who don't do this. Government involvement by creating protective regulation and corporate welfare structure is the only thing that allows business that don't supply to demand afloat.
I really wish you would listen to what is being said instead of projecting what you believe to be true on others. Whats so hard about talking to people like fellow humans and asking what they believe instead of telling them what they do (because its what you believe they believe)? I mean how extremely arrogant.
"The economic collapse of 2008 was the result of systematic fraud by the various financial institutions that make up Wall Street. It had no government input, save for the bailout that picked up the pieces after the fact"
Your joking, right? The government Wall Street were in bed with each other the whole way. The government changed the rules, eliminating Glass Steagall and mark to market, that allowed Wall Street to do what they did. Government regulators looked the other and still are while Wall Street did what it did/is doing. The courts are doing nothing to stop the fruadclosure mess caused by Wall Street. Take a look at this interview by Bill Moyers of William Black: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rz1b__MdtHY
There is a revolving door between Washington and Wall Street. People go from jobs in Wall Street firms to jobs in government and back to Wall Street with the change of every administration.
On top of that the government all by its self is spending us into oblivion. I think you need to do a little more research.
Silly. Both parties and Wall St are subsidiaries of the privately owned Federal Reserve.
Look beyond the MSM curtain, please.
So you're a conspiracy theorist. That's nice, back into the Paul camp with you please.
I'm sorry? It's a fact that the Fed is privately owned. What are you talking about?
Well said ! I don't support Ron Paul but why should we divide over politics ? We have more important things to take care of.
You're movement is about as influential as a bowel movement. Your problem is that the entity you worship (the state) is the problem. Wall Street is the symptom or expression of the problem. Your anger is wasted because you are ignorant.
YOUR movement.. You'RE calling us ignorant? :) The state is US, or needs to be, should be, will be again. It's not worship, it's a healthy respect for a beast we need to (re)tame. At least we get a vote, which, unless one owns a shitload of stock, is not the case with our corporate overlords.
Blah, blah, blah. Keep voting. The master's love it when you think you're in charge. And keep thinking that your fellow slaves on the other end of the political spectrum are the enemy. That also deflects your attention away from who your real enemy is ... the STATE.
Its better to have good bowels than good brains. If insulting me has made you feel better, then it has purpose.
We disagree. I'll take brains.
OIC you have not had bowel trouble yet, so you still have youth. Let me know when you are done, so we can have an intelligent discussion.
Oh and for the next fool, if you are unable to see how the trap was laid, I suggest you pick another place to start typing.
Hey, Naturesmeds, are you here to sell suppositories or add something meaningful to the discussion?
For others who seek meaning: I am active duty military with a top-secret clearance. I'm sworn to uphold the constitution to all men, including the president. Currently, the commander-in-chief is violating our constitution. There is NOBODY in my chain-of-command, that is part of the 1%. You put it together.
I sell apples, but you cannot afford these.
What a bore you are.
But thanks for prepping me for my Zzzzz's. Night all!
you nailed it
I loled.
Thirded
Seconded.
Truth
Whether or not Ron Paul is a dolt is IRRELEVANT to what this movement stands for. WE THE PEOPLE. Stop shoving politicians down our throats as the answer. THEY ARE NOT THE ANSWER.
You Ron Paulinites haven't learned the "YES WE CAN" and "CHANGE" lesson the democrats learned following the 2008 elections. I'm just hoping the rest of the country doesn't have to learn it with you following 2012.
You want a leader who can end all political controversies? Look in the mirror. Put your faith in yourself, not other people. Ron Paul's another professional, corporately sponsored politician.
The "Paulinites" predicted the disaster of Obama and y'all wouldn't listen. I'm not political, but I like and respect Ron Paul. He could help America thru the collapse - it's coming and it can't be stopped. You are mistaken about Ron Paul though - he is thoroughly rejected by corporations and the political establishment. Praise indeed.
Doesn't every politician predict that the opposition will bring the end to the world in some regard?
Though I do agree, ron paul does seem to have a strong will and resistance to bribery.
He doesn't have to "resist" bribes, he's not "offered" bribes. There's a big difference there. They know that he stands on principles and therefore there is no point trying to buy him. Obama so far has about 70 million in the coffers...
heres an idea. why dont all you young people down there join the military?
i notice that most people that talk bad about ron paul have only heard soundbytes. for all that these occupiers stand for,youd think that theyd actually do research and not trust what the corporate owned media is telling them.
I believe in Ron Paul because he believes that the Government should be functionally non-existent. That way me and my buddies can form a militia and institute Gang rule like they have in Afghanistan. Ron Paul is a Genius and with him in the white house I will be allowed to shot any trespassing minorities who come on my personal property.
i wish his son ran RON PAUL v2 lol
to all the geeky tea partyers! despite the evil, anakin skywalker was strong, but luke his son was stronger! ron/rand paul
Why would Ron Paul supporters not rally with OWS or vice-versa? Ron Paul is the only honest candidate running for president. He understands the moral hazard that is the Federal Reserve System and the private banking cartel. Yeah, you might not agree on his social policies but it's nothing to get hostile over. Don't focus on the caveats of his positions, look at the big stuff. Monetary policy, perpetual wars, constitutional rights. Ron Paul could really make a difference and get this country back on track.
I think Ron Paul has very little chance because he may actually end the wars. Who wants that?
Ron Paul is a dolt. Ron Paulsies the hell outta here!
The Tea Party under DR. Paul would End the Wars, the Fed, Government corruption and lower taxes for everyone. Massive jobs would be in america.
The Tea Party under a corrupt politicain like Perry or Rommney or Cain would Raise taxes Expand wars and continue to line Mega corporations with Tax payer money.
Ron Paul as a leader of OWS would eliminate alot of the debt that the FED created out of thin air. End wars lower your taxes and End Crony Capitalism.
Obama would use you and raise taxes destroying all the jobs in America simultaneously extracting the wealth of its citizens. The corporations would all go overseas and the CEOs would make record profits.
Ron Paul is a Republican in Name only. In heart he is a HONEST man. Elect him OWS. See you in Pittsburgh on the 15th occupy Pittsburgh.
The Tea Party under DR. Paul would End the Wars, the Fed, Government corruption and lower taxes for everyone. Massive jobs would be in america.
The Tea Party under a corrupt politicain like Perry or Rommney or Cain would Raise taxes Expand wars and continue to line Mega corporations with Tax payer money.
Ron Paul as a leader of OWS would eliminate alot of the debt that the FED created out of thin air. End wars lower your taxes and End Crony Capitalism.
Obama would use you and raise taxes destroying all the jobs in America simultaneously extracting the wealth of its citizens. The corporations would all go overseas and the CEOs would make record profits.
Ron Paul is a Republican in Name only. In heart he is a HONEST man. Elect him OWS. See you in Pittsburgh on the 15th occupy Pittsburgh.
I have a lot of respect for ron paul, I just don't think he's policies fit in the 21st century. I do admire his character, and his steadfast pursuit of what he sees as right and wrong.
I don't want to see Ron Paul's campaign take over, but I'd not want to see them shouted down. By all means participate in the conversation, but we are not campaigned for ron paul.
edit: I think we should nominate canidates from inside the movement eventually
Bad Cop No Donut !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Although an honorable man, he has as much chance of becoming president as I do.
I personally don't want him to become president. He'd just get the blame for something he tried to prevent. Better that he's the gadfly, exposing the hypocrites and buffoons that caused this mess.
Nope, sure don't. Trying to keep this thing trans-party.
so you going to vote for one of 9 clowns?so you are part of the problem
so you going to vote for one of 9 clowns?so you are part of the problem
who thinks ron paul is a dolt? who doesn't except his doltish supporters? the man is against the civil rights act of 1964. 47 years have gone by and he still can't face the fact. That ship has sailed.
dont you mean who thinks ron pual should eat a bowl of dicks
People in this movement shoudn't even stoop to consider that old has-been with completely looney ideas. In my opinion liberirarian is just another word for anarchist, and political scientists have a word for anarchy. They call it a power vacum; and they're right. Someone will fill that vacum, the question is, who? That is as crazy as communists who believed in "the dwindling away of the state." No state, as far as I can remember, has ever just dwindled away - excepy Somalia, and I don't think that's an example we'd like to follow.
Your movement is begging the masters to change, so, shut up and listen slave! Political scientists are just state dependent sycophants. Political power vacuum's are filled by authoritarians, period. It doesn't matter which wing - the "Democratic" majority will beg for it. It is really amusing though, that the left is completely bewildered by a so called "right wing enemy" that is more liberal than them! Ron Paul pals around with anarchists. And you thought you were radical.
I loled again.
This could be the beginning of a beautiful friendship...
You keep typing. I'll keep laughing.
I'm in.
Anarchists are like communists, just dreamers. There is no such thing as no government, except in Somalia and the minds of children. P.S. We are not begging anybody, we are demanding. There's a difference.
Government is a fiction. It is a small group of people who claim to have authority (with the right to use violence) over a large group of people. They use the threat of violence to maintain that fiction. When the large group realize that they are armed, the authority kinda... runs away. You only believe in authoritarianism because you were either bullied by a parent or you are a bully. You can take your demands and shove em. Have you ever hear of asking, or negotiating?
Is this bully-stuff a case of psycological projection?
Projection? Perhaps. I was bullied by parents, and teachers, and on various occasions, by little shits at school that were probably bullied by their parents ... so what's your point? - I should just shut up and take it like I'm still a child like most publicly educated children? I am just calling it as I see it.
My own children have never been hit or bullied by me, and their beautiful spirits are proof that it does not take violence, or coercion or threats to have a peaceful and ethical home (or country for that matter).
Well, good for you! I mean it! We have to stop the cycle of violence somewhere. The world is just like an extension of the family. If we can stop the cycle of violence and bullying at home, maybe we can stop it in the world as well. Good luck to you, Freebird!
Some peeps are already on top of ending the corruption in the family. http://occupycouch.blogspot.com/
Thank you, and same to you.
By the way, freebird, I respect you for expressing your opinion and hope that you allow me to express mine. I am simply saying what I think, that govenments and corporations don't just go away because we wish they should.
If we could logically determine that power corrupts, power is bad, and people who want power for the sake of power shouldn't get it... then wouldn't we be able to come to the logical conclusion that we would want as little consolidation of power as possible? (And then, that you should have the most power for yourself as possible?) Aren't you the most qualified person to make a decision regarding you? Or you like the gubmint telling you what kind of healthcare you get, what food to eat, and who their maggots are going to bomb on your behalf? Forget the anarchist ideal, as far as achieving it (for a moment, at least), and think that if we could determine that would BE the ideal, then shouldn't we at least attempt to head in that direction?
I appreciate your civility, GypsyKing - its just that - the government and corporations - they are legal fictions. They don't exist, unless we give them legitimacy. We are on the same side, really! I just don't get how these protestors don't see how the problem is the government. The banks and all their creepy friends are just the result of gov corruption. Ron Paul could ease the collapse, but no, Americans want the whole she-bang. It's gonna be ugly.
The left used to pride themselves as the anti-war movement. Peace and love. Of course, that ended when the draft did, or they got too old to fight in the USSA's endless wars.
And what about you "caring" lefties/progressives? Barely a peep on this whole forum about the relentless, belligerent war mongering, Obama's "legal" assassinations of US citizens, the so called "humanitarian" (e.g., Libyan) bombings, propping up dictators, drones attacks, the war on whistleblowers like Assange, etc, etc. NOTHING!
The war on drugs? Silence.
The police/security/surveillance/prison complex? Snooze.
Please, stop embarrassing yourselves and acting like you care about anything important.
The only moral people left in this bloodthirsty, corrupt, willfully ignorant country are the libertarians. Ron Paul puts you all to shame, and frankly, you don't deserve him. Let the ship of state sink. You're not worth saving.
I've heard Ron Paul speak. I admire his position on ending the wars and the fed. Other than that, he feeds into the sentiment that the government is just "generically" the problem. His arguments lack nuance, supporting evidence and viable alternative solutions.
Sounds to me like the only person you think is worth saving is you. That's what we don't like about liberataranism.
Actually, he's pissed (as am I) about all the people getting murdered on our behalf in the middle east, american citizens included. I guess if you think the gubmint putting citizens, who are entitled by law to habeus corpus, on a secret kill list and then assassinating them, what's to stop the gubmint from doing it to you? libertarianism is based on the idea that it's wrong for one person to use force on another. So it's actually ALL people who get abused that libertarians are concerned for..which is everyone!
http://in.reuters.com/article/2011/10/06/idINIndia-59734620111006
Why is it that you guys hate "gubmint" i.e. democracy, which is the most American of all ideas, and at the same time consider yourselves super-patriots? We are going to have gubmint one way or the other. Should we the people control it, or hand democracy over to tyranny and call that patritism? Those are the only POSSIBLE choices! You talk about law. Is there law without government? No! The problem is all your libritarian ideas just twist themselves around and around without ever confronting the facts. Personally, I've had enough of this, because the other thing about libritarans is they don't listen to reason, so it's a waste of time. What could I say that would get you to see that in a world of seven billion people the abscence of government is impossible, and therefore you must make a choice about either democracy or totaliarianism, those being the only functioning models of government to present themselves in 5,000 years. If you have a better one I'll be glad to hear it, but enough of this vague, me first, psudo-liberty gobbledygook!
GypsyKing, Libertarians are philosophers! Their philosophy has foundational principles, and you my friend, (though you may not know it now) are one of us. The only moral social order begins with the non aggression principle. Democracy is mob rule - the evisceration of individual rights. You are a moral person, or you wouldn't be fraternizing with us outlaws! Let the State go, and welcome freedom and peaceful association.
Aristotle sayeth "One who surpasses his fellow-citizens in virtue is no longer a part of the city. Their law is not for him, since he is a law to himself."
Yup, we hate gubmint. Cause they are just people, who claim the right to RULE over other people. What makes them so special - Is there some super human breed that gets to rule over us - No!
They are just the assholes with the balls to take the role of ruler.
Decent people don't want to do that. And evil people crave the opportunity.
You have to ask YOURSELF ... Why do I need an authority?
Good people don't need rules, and bad people don't follow them.
You've heard of a "Republic" right? That's a viable form of government in the last 5,000 years. Ever hear of the "Roman Republic"?
If I had to pick, I'll take that one, please. Assuming we've given up on the potential of people.
I'm okay with a Republic, really. I guess, as an anarchist, it means that I haven't given up on the potential of people. I believe that they wouldn't be comfortable with the the face to face violence that the State exempts them from - with the State doing the dirty work, you don't have to look your victims in the face. If people really saw how the State worked they would be revolted. Just like slaughter houses turn people into vegitarians.
I meant that anarchy is the only ideal that believes in the potential of people, the potential to self-govern, to act with integrity, to not use force against other people. All other systems assume people are depraved and need to be controlled.
That's a good analogy, the slaughterhouse. And very apt.
Although in a society of people who will pay 10 bucks to go watch people get cut to pieces in a movie theatre, or has a laugh at the expense of anothers death (Darwin Awards), maybe the potential for violent people at all times is alive and well here as well.
Maybe I'm a deluded optimist, but I think most people are decent. We will never rid society of psychopaths, but the fact that they exist is the reason we cant have governments - they will always be the ones trying to be the government!
The irony of freedom, real freedom, is that you give the other person the choice to do something you disagree with. Maybe even something against you. But if the other choice is slavery, then you're the one in the wrong. It's a pre-emptive attack. Most folks here seem to understand why that doesn't work in the middle east, just transfer the logic to a different principle.
Truth.
Yes. He is portrayed horribly by the media, just like OWS is portrayed horribly by the media. He has some points we would disagree on (like abortion), but I think he could do more good than damage (good luck trying to ban abortion). I think we need to align ourselves with the tea party, and later the republicans. Actually the bible is more aligned than OWS than one might think.
That is not what this movement is about. It will not be hijacked by any party, politician, ideology or institution. Please don't try and make it so.
Ron Paul was preceded by a multitude of other congressman who represented the very same principles he touts. I found a video on youtube detailing who those statesmen were however I cannot locate it anymore.
The problem was not a lack of honest politicians, but instead a lack of honest democracy.
FFS.
Look, Mr. Paul does stand for some of the same things #OWS wants. He wants to dismantle the Federal Reserve, and he wants to end the extremely expensive and pointless overseas wars. And he can explain his views very clearly and convincingly in a non-inflammatory way. That's all good, if you're a republican, he's probably your best candidate. But other than that, it's really not the same thing at all - he's extremely conservative and libertarian, every man for himself sort of thing. I think mankind is a social animal and we only thrive when we help each other. And I think most of the items on The Declaration of the Occupation of New York City he wouldn't support at all.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/first-official-release-from-occupy-wall-street/
He's not a dolt, but he's also not part of this movement, and there's no need to keep flooding these forums with Ron Paul ads, they're not on-topic.
Blah, blah, blah. He is a part of this movement. Otherwise, quit calling yourselves the 99%. You lefties don't speak for everyone. Ron Paul predicted this catastrophe years ago, probably when you were in diapers. And for your information, calling someone a "libertarian" is a complement. Thank you.
http://rightwingnuthouse.com/archives/2007/11/01/ron-paul-panderer-to-the-paranoid/
http://www.openleft.com/diary/21438/golden-oldie-ron-paul-equates-former-militia-wingnut-tax-evaders-with-martin-luther-king
http://polizeros.com/2007/07/16/ron-paul-is-a-right-wing-nut-case/
Ron Paul is a right-wing nut case By Bob Morris, on Jul 16, 2007, 12:15 am
Ron Paul has been getting a lot of attention lately in his presidential run. Even lefties who ought to know better think he might be some kind of straight-talking anti-war populist with real ideas for change.
Nonsense. He’s a sharply right-wing libertarian who, like most libertarians, is deeply tortured by the thought that someone, somewhere might gain benefit from his tax dollars. He hates taxes and also suffers from the hard right-wing delusion that abolishing the Federal Reserve will, with a wave of the pixie dust wand, make everything wonderful again.
He opposes regional agreements the US might a signatory to. This is not because GATT, for example, is noxious and exploitative but because it, gasp, allows other countries to have a say in what America does. In other words, he believes in American Exceptionalism and is also isolationist, a pretzel of logic that only those on the fringe right try to negotiate.
As for immigration, he wants to send all undocumented workers back home, stop birthplace citizenship, eliminate hospital care for the undocumented – but somehow neglects to mention enforcing the law against employers who hire them. That the US economy would be in a shambles if all of Them were sent home does not occur to him, but then reality seldom dents the skulls of ideologues.
His stand on the war is conspicuous by saying absolutely nothing about what should be done in Iraq. Not one word.
He wants to remove Roe vs. Wade. “I am also the prime sponsor of HR 300, which would negate the effect of Roe v Wade by removing the ability of federal courts to interfere with state legislation to protect life.”
He’s also heavily allied with and supported by neo-confederate forces, is rabidly anti-gay, and has a 100% rating from the Christian Coalition.
Don’t be fooled by the low-key approach, he’s further to the right than either Bush or Cheney.
http://www.tnr.com/article/feast-the-wingnuts
http://bsalert.com/artsearch.php?fn=2&dt=1&as=2160
http://motherjones.com/mojo/2009/09/wingnuts-unite-ron-paul-joins-michelle-bachmann-weirdest-town-hall-ever
http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/211823/20110911/ron-paul-racism-anti-semitism-republican.htm
http://www.ronpaul.com/on-the-issues/global-warming/
http://www.ronpaul.com/2009-06-04/statement-on-global-warming-petition-signed-by-31478-scientists/
You're a right wing nut
ha ha. nope, i'm not any kind of nut and i'm not any kind of ideologue. I am a scientist. you are a troll.
Its hard to be an honest, consistent statesman when everyone wants a slimy politician to kick them in the teeth, and put cigarettes out on their crackwhore asses. In a world of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. The establishment will even label such men "crazy", "Losers" "dolts".
Obama Lied and shattered the illusion of the left/right paradigm for me. He is Bush amplified. He has participated in furthering War, torture, debt, stomping civil liberties, running guns via fast and furious, supporting his bankster masters.
The financial oligarchs who have hijacked our nation are the true enemy. The powers behind the curtain, and pathetic political whores they use as front men.
I certainly do! I wish someone would nail Ron Paul on his "end the Fed" and "sound money" nonsense at one of these debates. Some good criticism of it in the Amazon reviews of his book: http://tinyurl.com/3j2e9zm
I wish someone would nail ya face