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Forum Post: Who Demands What?

Posted 13 years ago on Oct. 19, 2011, 6:37 a.m. EST by rohjo (92)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

Demands for specific demands are coming from all corners. If Occupy Wall Street starts listing demands, then who exactly would comprise #OWS? Agenda-keepers--the new "spokespersons"--would soon divide and conquer the so-called leaderless resistance movement.

The brilliant marketing logic of its originators was Keep It Simple: Give everyone license to take license to protest. And we are--overwhelmingly, peacefully, naming a hundred specifics or none at all--making the media crazy and rattling the nerves of the overlords.

Let this Jinni of open dialogue stay out of the bottle.

23 Comments

23 Comments


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[-] 1 points by synonymous (161) from New York, NY 13 years ago

turns out we already have a license to protest...the constitution...

[-] 1 points by rohjo (92) 13 years ago

Well said. How about license to take license? #OWS rocks and leads.

[-] 1 points by monahan (272) 13 years ago

The organizers are communist revolutionaries

[-] 1 points by rohjo (92) 13 years ago

No doubt they're in there pitching. If #OWS comes up with a list of demands, it would be a safe bet that communist revolutionaries will have had some imprint on that, along with the other interested parties. But the CP, whichever faction you choose, is only part of the wild rumpus for control.

[-] 2 points by monahan (272) 13 years ago

Problem is clearing the park will set off violent communists off worldwide

[-] 1 points by rohjo (92) 13 years ago

Or not. The bright side would be that it would set off peaceful Americans nationwide to reclaim their citizenship from corporate control.

[-] 1 points by monahan (272) 13 years ago

It would be it for the unions I hope that would be one step to democracy

[-] 0 points by rohjo (92) 13 years ago

My understanding of unions, warts and all, is that they are a function of democracy.

[-] 1 points by monahan (272) 13 years ago

How many arrests have been made

[-] 0 points by rohjo (92) 13 years ago

When and where? I don't measure the success of #OWS on the arrest meter.

[-] 1 points by monahan (272) 13 years ago

Unions buy our politicians just like corps

[-] 1 points by rohjo (92) 13 years ago

No doubt. We need change for democracy to work, all around. Which leads to "Who buys the unions?". Which points back to the corps.

[-] 1 points by monahan (272) 13 years ago

Wrong they support unions why to increase cost get your head on straight the biggest union is the teachers

[-] 1 points by rohjo (92) 13 years ago

I'm hearing echoes of Tea Party rhetoric, which is okay. Welcome aboard the Good Ship 99. I probably won't debate much more along these lines. So much fun, so little time.

[-] 1 points by palaka (2) from Naalehu, HI 13 years ago

Absolutely. As soon as demand start being made which at this point won't be met anyways it will only server as a divisive move. This issues are to big and broad to be penned out in a one liner besides... Change must happen.

It doesn't matter how or who. Anything that will wake Corporate America up to the fact that there dependent on us for there money.

[-] 0 points by RichardGates (1529) 13 years ago

actually the data being collected by myself and the GA will be made public for vetting and commenting. the public will help refine and define what is important.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/viewform?hl=en_US&pli=1&formkey=dFlNNHJTRlZwMWs5ZjlhTWN0NlZReHc6MQ#gid=0

https://www.google.com/fusiontables/DataSource?snapid=S291935jtMh

http://blog.richardkentgates.com

[-] 1 points by rohjo (92) 13 years ago

That sounds interesting. Will the vetting occur on this Forum? Who monitors your data collecting?

[-] 0 points by RichardGates (1529) 13 years ago

due you mistake me for a corporation. the vetting will be public, thats all on that for now. i have collected emails, verification forms and invitations to participate further will be emailed. truly transparent processes don't need overseers, the public will oversee the data.

[-] 1 points by rohjo (92) 13 years ago

One person, one vote? By invitation? I hope there are as many invites as there are people in this mushrooming movement.

Also, the topics to be voted on will be an issue. Polls can be slanted in their manner of questioning to obtain skewed results, as they often are.

Public vetting of this process, until you explain it, remains an enigma to me. I see the specter of electronic voting, which in itself, is making democracy a sham. Note the Help America Vote Act (HAVA), signed by Bush, that mandates the use of electronic voting machines, which have been proven by IT experts to be inherently insecure.

A transparent national GA, free of maneuvering by working groups, is quite a concept--true direct democracy--if that's what you're writing about. I hope this would employ the Single Transferable Vote, which is a more representational system and would be a good model for society.

My skepticism comes with healthy curiosity. You may be on to something. Looking forward to learning more.

[-] 0 points by RichardGates (1529) 13 years ago

well if you look at the table i gave you the link to, you can see the data, so it's available for public viewing now. so i am still not clear on your lack of understanding of public vetting. and the corrupt voting bit is a pretty common attack on the system when you do not agree with the outcome.

[-] 1 points by rohjo (92) 13 years ago

Will do. Hope I'm not too tech challenged to grasp it. Also, I'll dig up links to post later re electronic voting. My take is that black boxes are manipulated when you don't agree with the outcome, a la Diebold.

[-] 0 points by RichardGates (1529) 13 years ago

na, i understand security pretty well, used to work for an ATM company. there will be a process for becoming a user to verify one person one user. the voting information will not be private at all so anyone can contest there posted vote before the tally. security will be limited to securing the server and sign in. https probably.

[-] 1 points by rohjo (92) 13 years ago

Richard, your links are very straightforward; even I can follow how this works :) Public voting is definitely easier to track. Are you working with occupywallst.org? Perhaps you can post these in the News section for large response.

FYI, if you haven't already been there, here's a good first stop to explore the issues of vote verifying: http://www.blackboxvoting.org/