Forum Post: When was the last time you voted?
Posted 13 years ago on Oct. 12, 2011, 11:01 p.m. EST by saturdaynightpolitics
(108)
from Cleveland, OH
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
In several discussions I have had on this forum, the issue of voting came up. It has been almost universally explained by the members of this forum that voting is important and will be to the success of the movement. I however am very concerned about apathy for politics and was would like two questions answered.
Are you currently registered to vote?
If so, when was the last time you exercised your right to vote?
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Saturday-Night-Politics/194650163906116
The theory is that if everybody voted, progressives or at least Democrats would win. Impossible to know this and we never will. Voting does not mean as much as you think. Elections are basically a diversion, the Plutocracy's way of creating the illusion that you have power. We can vote but our Reps and Senators who depend on Money, are beholden to the Power Structure: The Corporations, the top 1% of the population. So, you can't test your theory that if everyone voted, we progressives would do better. In fact, not to be too harsh, but I have given this challenge on another website where liberals and progressives bitch, moan and complain. Look, if you are serious about getting the vote out, then please organize voter registration Nationwide on college campuses, in the inner cities, etc. Have a massive campaign. Sad to say, no one is really interested in testing your theory. It says a lot about our situation. You get my point, right. Again, if you truly believe in the electoral system (and it making a difference), it seems logical to initiate a campaign to register all voters. Sorry to be cynical but very few people have that kind of commitment. Take all the energy of all the protestors and demonstrators, all the time they are committing to being in the Street and see how many would sign on to registering people. Not many, I will bet. Then, ask yourself the question , Why. Especially if everybody thinks voting is so important. In the 2010 election, the percentage of 18-30 year olds that voted was pathetically low. Logically, everyone should go to college campuses and register voters. Problem is, that STILL is no assurance they will vote. Points to the because problem, voter apathy. Me? Given our political system, I think voting makes absolutely very little difference. For example, after 911, if Gore had been President, we would have attacked Afghanistan, and, quite possibly, even Iraq. Under Clinton, the Glass-Steagall Law was rescinded. The list goes on and on. So, it is very doubtful Voting would change anything. It hasn't in my lifetime, I daresay. The Plutocrats own Congress lock, stock and barrel. We need to fight the Plutocrats. Our elected officials are either their henchmen or are scared themselves. They know these people are vicious and play but mafia rules.
The plutocrats only are able to maintain power because people don't vote. This is a democracy and it does work. And btw you still didn't answer my questions lol.
You must be very young and/or naive. The Plutocracy has been in control of this country for a very long time. Voting generally only makes a difference in times of economic crisis, the Great Depression the prime example. The modern President is beholden to very strong economic interests as Eisenhower discovered himself. The fact that you call our political system a democracy indicates you have a lot to learn but liberals generally do. I understand the feeling of wanting to believe, to be positive, but if you ever get really involved, you discover a very seedy side of politics that has nothing to do with the cover story, The Constitution. But you probably can't understand or imagine what I am talking about. We have a Plutocracy, rule by the rich. Go read Kevin Philips book on Democracy and Wealth. He is a Republican but an intellectual one who speaks the truth. There are a few Republicans like him in the past who have spoken the truth. We had one in California, McCarthy. He saw the dirt behind Vietnam and talked about it. Occasionally, there are honest politicians. Most of the time they have avoided corporate control. Very hard to do since the controls are often subtle. The Plutocracy (the corporations, mostly) gets to be good friends with politicians, you know. Relationships are everything, They gain your trust and before you know it, you are welcomed into the Corporate Way of doing things which is very lucrative and which can provide any comfort you want. Most politicians are seduced by the luxury, the good life. The Republicans are sucked in to the Strong Christian Ministers and Pastors that turn out to be a strong network of influence as well. See, you need to forget the Constitution. The Constitution is what they want you to believe in, yes, what they need you to believe in. it is a framework you maybe memorized in school and like the good little patriot you probably are, you think our political system functions according to the Constitution. Well, what can I say? You can vote, sure, won't make much difference as we just witnessed with Obama. The Republicans, representing very strong economic interests can thwart everything Obama wants to do because they are these Republicans are doing corporate bidding. Do you understand this. The Plutocracy runs the show. They have their own framework, which involves hiring lobbyists to approach the Senators and Congressperson and persuade them of the value of a bill or at least the value of their vote. The lobbyists help write bills, damn it. And the payoff, you guessed it, lots of money to run a campaign. And our representatives spent 50% of their time fundraising. Dude, or dudette, this stuff I am telling you is golden, precious even. If you only knew the dark side of America. You have no idea. You need to change your conceptual framework otherwise you can no process reality properly. You conceptual framework by which you attempt to understand reality is ancient history. You need to change your categories by which you process and understand reality. In other words, you need to examine the brainwashing, the dogma you have digested. Really, you are saying that if all the people vote, things will be that much better. Really? Okay, I challenge you then. If you truly believe this and are truly passionate about this cause of yours, VOTING< then, I expect to see you registering voters and encouraging them to vote. See, the point is that people like to talk and think they can figure it out by talking. No, you figure it out by organizing or trying to. That's how you get wisdom. By experience and correct processing. So, the challenge for you is to do Voter Registration about 5-10 hours per week. Can you handle it? Try it for two weeks. Get a taste of being a real activist, doing something you REALLY believe in. Forgive me my condescending attitude but if you think the people control the govt., then you are still believing in the American Dream. Suggest you listen to what George Carlin had to say about this subject. Brilliant, accurate, and funny, tragic too. You can find it on YouTube
Unlike you I don't take my political ques from comedians. Your assertion that I am naive and inexperienced in the realm of politics is laughable at best. Let me tell you a little about myself. I am a veteran of two presidential campaigns, a conservative, a political commentator (I will include some links to my work below as proof), I have worked on various community and civil projects, a, have a four year degree in political science and homeland security, and not only routinely vote but work diligently on voter registration campaigns. You should really consider the questions people ask you before you attack them personally to placate your own ego.
As to your assumptions, Yes you are correct the wealthy in this country do have a disproportionate amount of power in our nation. Money does play a key factor in determine the outcomes of most political dealings, however simply foregoing your civic responsibilities because of your jaded nature does not let you off the hook for our troubled times. We do in fact live in a democracy and everyone does have a voice at the ballot. We live in the information age which allows the average person to voice their opinion. It is every citizen's responsibility to not only vote but contribute to their society. The financial inequalities that exist in our nation are not only the result of wealthy people's unending quest to make more money, but also thanks to the apathy of the average American. The plutocrats, that you so despise, would have been unable to create this mess if the masses not only paid attention to political matters for the last several decades but took a more active role in the shaping of their society through organization and activism.
Do I still believe in the American Dream? Absolutely. But do I feel that it is much harder to achieve in the modern age? Definitely. Simply throwing your hands up and calling it quits is not now and never will be, the answer to our woes. That is one of the biggest problems our nation faces, most people don't care and the ones that do, like you, have become so disenfranchised that the only way you believe you will have a voice is by tearing down other people and explaining how little of a fuck you care. If you want a better future stop complaining and forge it with your own two hands, if not get the fuck out of the way of those that will. You are not doing anyone a service by repeating the same tired motos of the the uninspired naysayers.
And p.s. You still haven't answered my simple questions that were by no means meant to instill such rage. If the idea of voting is so repulsive to you maybe it is time you stop whining and do something about it.
p.p.s. Offense has been taken and, sorry, but I don't forgive you for your condescending attitude.
And btw here is some of my commentary clippings to prove that I am not making this up.
http://saturdaynightpolitics.com/blog/2011/10/nyc-protestors-hurting-crediblity/
http://www.killercampaigning.com/why-volunteers-should-be-the-heart-of-your-political-campaign/
http://saturdaynightpolitics.com/blog/2011/06/an-interview-with-the-president-of-california-common-sense/
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Saturday-Night-Politics/194650163906116
I suggest you take a look at Democracy and Wealth by Kevin Phillips on the American Plutocracy. I am sure you know him given your background. The electoral process in this country is so unfair and dysfunctional, that fundamental change through it is almost impossible. George Carlin's rant is fairly accurate description of the reality of the Plutocracy. Dumhoff's thesis in Who Rules America still holds up today. Supposedly 500 families have more wealth that the bottom quartile (that's 80 million people!). Wealth distorts the whole political process. Elections give the illusion to people that they have power. The Constitution is antiquated. The stumbling blocks: Bicameral Legislature, the Senate which gives massive disproportional representation to rural and conservative states, the parliamentary process whereby the threat of a filibuster can stymie all legislative movement. The Majority simply does not rule. Add to this the power of corporations and wealth to influence, buy and corrupt the process and you have the HORROR of our system. Behaving as if elections can provide significant reform in this context is like going into a poker game knowing your opponents are are cheats. To make the infamous accusation that the Reagan Administration made against the Sandinistas: The Playing Field is Not Level. The corporate media control most communication and hence it is not surprise that people are so uneducated, misinformed, and ignorant. The education system is massively dysfunctional as well. I was a public teacher for 15 years. I know how bad it is. And the solutions are a joke. It is no surprise that the Teacher of the Year from New York a few years back wrote a scathing attack on the whole education system that basically is an indoctrination mechanism of the power structure. Guess what? People feel powerless because the political system DOES NOT WORK. You might pretend that it does but that does not make it so. The electoral college is a joke, antiquated and the fact that anybody takes it seriously anymore is a sad, pathetic comment on the level of political consciousness in this country. The fact that we do nor Vote on Sundays, have a paper trail for voting, and many other simple reforms such as a ban on political advertising (as countries in Europe do) is an indication how backward we are and how clever the corporate structure is. Corporations, once declared to be Individuals by the Supreme Court with all the rights of a human being, have now be given further power through letting money influence and control the system even more. Nader was right and you probably know this. As to your questions, I have no idea what they were. Give me them and I will refresh my mind. I may have not addressed them as they are not really relevant. The fact of the matter is that the criticisms I make above are serious and correct. If the system does not function, voting will not make a difference.
As for my condescending attitude. Sorry, but I can get very impatient with having to state the obvious. If you want to believe in the fantasy that elections will change things, that the govt. functions according to the Constitution, and that it is NOT time for massive reform: go ahead. It is possible that you are comfortable with you stake and lot in the system. Massive numbers of people are not. We are alienated, pissed, feeling ignored and impotent...and it is growing. Time magazine recently reported that 45% of all mortgages are underwater or in the delinquent or the homes have already been repossessed by banks. One telephone poll found that 1/3 Americans described themselves as unemployed or underemployed. The figures for the unemployed and underemployed are vastly underreported. The amount of debt owned by all govts. (federal, state, city and counties besides businesses, corporations, and indiviudals (mortgages, credit cards, loans) is absolutely massive. Europe is teetering on the brink of financial collapse. IF things to get much worse, you will see increasingly massive protests, social disruption, crime, etc. You are living in a bubble. If you think this is condescending, I really don't care. Wake up, dude.
Governments are the imperfect creation of man and simply as fragile as we allow them to be. I honestly am done debating with you because you leave very little room for discussion. Your assumptions about the the disproportionate power of the senate is as ludicrous as your ranting that the constitution is antiquated. Reform is necessary but the government that is in place and the legally binding documents that formed it are flexible enough to accommodate change. I am not going to address your other issues because the economy ranting has nothing to do with this discussion and you know where I stand with the rest thanks to the prior posts. I am trying to engage in a debate, you are just ranting within your own 'bubble'.
Dude, the state of Wyoming with barely over 500,000 in population has the same number of senate seats as Calif. which as over 30 million people? And you say the criticism is ludicrous? I see you are stuck in a mindset in which no valid criticism can get through. I mentioned at least 10 obstacles to approaching more democratic process, and you pan them all. Dude, you are a joke. Go to another site. You are the one who does not want serious debate. Parliamentary systems are so superior that all countries except for few choose them Mexican is an example of a country that adopted our model and look at their problems. They are totally controlled by a Plutocracy also. You are stuck in an antiquated conceptual process. Update your mental categories. And, dude, man up. You are so sensitive that you run from debate. Angry? You bet I am.
If you want to debate, fine.
2.You are only clearly worried about the filibuster and that rule can be changed within the rules committee easily enough by willing senators. Just elect them.
The Const. is not antiquated because it can be changed.
The electoral college was created to ensure two things. The first had malicious intent, it was developed as a safeguard against populism. The second, and more modern reason is to prevent a tie. Tied elections can tear a nation apart (See the history of pretty much every other nation). The original reason is bullshit, I concede that point, but the second is still useful. If you want a more democratic and fair system eliminate the winner take all portion of the electoral college system and make each vote tied to each district.
To take the bite out of money in politics, turn back the ruling that treats a corporation as a person and therefore allowing unlimited funds to be donated to a campaign, increase the scope of the sunshine laws, and put a cap on election funds that can be raised.
To address corporate control of the media increase funding for public radio and television while strengthening anti-trust legislation to break up organizations like Turner or News Corp.
The above address most of your issues with completely overhauling the government. This aren't exactly rocket science solutions, but based on common sense.
Your rebuttal?
I am not sure why, but it is not letting me edit the numbering error, please excuse the error.
get real, the vote is a joke -- democracy died in 500 BC when the socratic academy sold out to aristocratic sparta ... so, attack the academies(!) the people who created the oligarchy in the first place to replace wisdom with introversion: "Until all the kings are philosphers..." Well they are now, and they invented globalism, and the are uptown in the Universities, where you should be right now.
I hear your argument bu t direct democracy (which you alluded to) coudln't possibly work in a society of our size.
You are hallucinating (schiz spectrum). Elections pretend to be democracy but in reality only resolve disputes between warring capital families: america's most talented vs most wanted.
This is the plan developed by cynics and stoics and you are a part of it; your mental illness is what qualifies you, making you a genetic component of the problem.
At best we can make "loser" parties to force in benefits such as the socialists got social security.
Seriously take your paranoia global conspiracy ass back to the basement. Our economic and political systems are the designs of men, will all of our failings and frailties included.
Obviously I think you are a high-functioning mental patient, and, frankly, I don't have time to give you pro-bono therapy.
Glad to hear it! Thanks for responding! Keep it up!
2010 midterms
Voting is irrelevant if all available and viable options are property of the corporate state and subject to institutional corruption.
Thank you for your response. While I see your point concerning #3 I have to say that I still think voting is important. See my response to Dost a few replys down as to why I feel this way. I tore into Dost pretty hard because he started to get nasty but I think you would be interested in the main argument, just don't think that the angrier parts of the post are directed to anyone but Dost. He managed to get under my skin pretty well.
Elections will continue to be frauds and shams that we willingly and/or begrudgingly participate in, in the hopes that our votes will at least help fend of the greater of two evils. The statesman has been replaced by the salesman, the leader replaced with the charlatan and the representation we are supposedly guaranteed via our election processes has left us simply choosing amongst corporate and institutional spokespeople, more interested in looking the part than actually being the part.
This country needs a serious overhaul of its elections and lobbying structures, beginning with an elimination of private financing and going forward with a doctrine of absolute transparency and public record regarding that which our elected officials are having argued to them.
The only vote worth a damn is a spoiled one.
Would you elaborate?
Take a ballot, do whatever you will with it without actually voting with it, then put it in the ballot box.
To ask "who will you vote for?" is akin to saying "pick yer poison".
Fair enough, thanks for the response!
I'm a felon but my heart is always really into it
That does suck. It really is a shame to have your civic rights suspend but there are ways to reclaim your ability to vote. Contact your congressional office or local boe and they can help.
Not only am I registered to vote, I've voted in every single election and primary for the past sixteen years. I also contact my elected officials almost every day about issues I feel strongly about.
Very glad to hear it I wish more people were as passionate about it as you!
Yes, every local and national election since I turned 18. If 99% voted in National and Local elections...we wouldn't have to occupy the streets. We are deciding through our daily actions and non-actions which direction our country will take. Daily/Monthly/Yearly political participation is a lot easier than having to fight wars to regain freedoms lost through continual apathy. Voting doesn't cut it, in a "Capitalist Democracy" we must put our money where our mouth is. You can dislike something all you want, if you keep buying it nothing will change. If we did vote and hold our representatives responsible, we wouldn't have lifers in congress.
Cheers!
I always vote, primaries included, even though I'm generally disgusted by the people the parties set up on the ballots. Several times, I've written in people that got a significant portion of the vote. I abstain from filling in any blanks I haven't researched -- there's usually a judge or some board member I don't have an opinion on, so I just leave that slot blank.
Voting costs me a half-gallon of gas and a half-hour of time, and at some point, it might make a difference in a tight local election where there aren't that many total votes being considered. It's milquetoast participation, but that's not reason enough for me to spurn it.
I am glad to hear it!
In the 80's, and out of disgust for the top-heavy nature for the system, I've never voted since. Which is why what we most immediately need is a comprehensive strategy, and related candidate, that implements all our demands at the same time, and although I'm all in favor of taking down today's ineffective and inefficient Top 10% Management System of Business & Government, there's only one way to do it – by fighting bankers as bankers ourselves. Consequently, I have posted a 1-page Summary of the Strategic Legal Policies, Organizational Operating Structures, and Tactical Investment Procedures necessary to do this at:
http://getsatisfaction.com/americanselect/topics/on_strategic_legal_policy_organizational_operational_structures_tactical_investment_procedures
Join
http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/StrategicInternationalSystems/
if you want to be 1 of 100,000 people needed to support a Presidential Candidate – such as myself – at AmericansElect.org in support of the above bank-focused platform.
We shouldn't have to vote out of disgust but a not voting at all seems to feed into the whole problem. If I don't like a candidate I still vote, I just write in or abstain.
Okay, I agree, but the time of my mind is a little valuable to be wasted that way (for me).
at least it goes on the record that I am unhappy with the choices. That's how I look at it anyway.
voted for Obama (BaM)^5 lol
Fair enough. As a follow up, do you plan on voting again or are have you given up on that notion?
i may vote. i admit i would like to see less campaigning from him right now. I think paying more attention to us would be enough campaigning.
Regardless of my feelings on Obama. Do you really think he has the clout left to appease this group?
well, i like obama for different reasons. i do not believe in the "creating jobs" bit from gov or biz. i'm sure you're aware i feel jobs come strictly from demand. the issue aside from corruption is the bottlenecking of our currency at the top that retards the capitalism process. i have my opinion of the fix but with all the distortion and noise i think the bottleneck will continue to be excused and ignored.
Your the first person on here that has mentioned a bottleneck. Could you elaborate on that, you have my attention.
you have to peg minimum wage to inflation and evaluate quarterly to force the system to absorb it and prevent regression.
i am guessing you understand inflation? if so, look at it from this view... say they raise minimum wage (and most would consider this a good move) following would be price increasing(you know all this) now those that have it spend it to keep up, more loans, money created. now the money made by the increase has less value and you're back to square one. the wage increase made no difference. meanwhile the new volume of capital in the system can be seen in the financial institutions. so the only people making the money from minimum wage increases are at the top of the economic food chain. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704775604576120591083072026.html
I see what you mean. Thanks for explaining that. How do you propose the bottleneck is broken?
peg minimum wage to inflation,cost, and evaluate quarterly. make it enough so people can pay their taxes and healthcare. this removes the need for employers to pay taxes on their employees and workers comp since everybody will be required to have health insurance. this is also why i support the health insurance mandate, but with a living wage the employer could be relieved of their requirement to carry it. this would cut labor cost enough to let small biz breath under the higher wage and accountable only to pay the wage, no other employee cost, and relieve the government of the high social program costs.
Yes. As an independent.
I voted in the 2010 midterm election and 2008 Presidential election.
Thank you for your candor!
I vote...but does my vote count? Do the candidates represent my point of view? When I write them a letter or call them on the phone,do I get a personalized letter back?! no its standard. Have I ever recieved a return phone call,not once.(I called my congressperson about the 2008 bailout,left mess..no bailout for banks)
My votes have gotten me nowhere in the past umpteen years.Not one of the candidates dems or repugs have represented my views or made my life any better ,but they made it worse.
I can only remember on candidate knocking on my door asking for my vote. That was 25 yrs ago in the small town of Yeadon,Pa. No candidate has ask me since then.
For the past 20yrs Ive been a registered Independent...for the reasons Ive mentioned.
No my vote hasn't counted,but it is the ONLY right I have. I won't let any republican politician take that from me.
Our politicians are out of touch, that is for sure. I would have to say the last politician that personally came to my house was in 1992 or 1994.
the real question is when was the last time you voted on an issue or a candidate that you really supported, and did you feel your vote truly counted for anything. How many laws are passed by your elected officials which you feel infringe on your freedoms without any input from the general populus?
All those elected officials have done is tighten the belt on our liberties. They forget who put them in office. But I think the voting system is rigged,especially since there is touchscreen voting. Those private contractors can flip those votes for their candidates anytime they get ready...and have!
I actually believe my vote counts, everyone's does. This is a representative democracy, laws will be passed without our direct consent, that is why we elect representatives. Elections are times to hold these politicians accountable. I would still like to know the answer to my questions if you would be willing, this is more of an academic question. I am not trying to troll anyone here.
I have always voted since 18 yrs old, never favored any single party and rarely agree with local balloting. If you think your vote counts for anything, you are terribly naive about how our modern Government really works. Did we vote for or against TARP, Afganistan, Iraq, or banking regulations. When did you ever see your ideas come up for debate.
We voted for the candidates that made those decisions. As the electorate It is our responsibility to hold the officials responsible for those choices.