Forum Post: WHAT'S GOING ON OVER at FOX NEWS ? - could you help us understand what's happening WSmith?
Posted 11 years ago on Jan. 31, 2013, 6:29 p.m. EST by frovikleka
(2563)
from Island Heights, NJ
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
This is just a follow-up to my previous thread, "IS THE REPUBLICAN PARTY BECOMING MORE LIBERAL - in the face of changing demographics?"
The Truthdig web site reported that; "The conservative cable news channel's ratings hit a 12 year low for the month of January in the critical 25-54 age demographic." THIS, while Fox News' liberal rival had a ratings bump.
Hmmm...how should we interpret this news. So what say you WSmith, or how 'bout you oldJack, or whoever you are pretending to be?? Come on, we need your expert analysis? Don't hesitate to alienate everyone around you. You wouldn't be doing your jobs if you didn't. Step up to the plate. lol
Scroll down to Showing Decline
~Odin~
The inmates are dying.
The Right/Fox News 'can’t win with a base that is at war with math, physics, human biology, economics and common-sense gun laws all at the same time'. And the Right wing base/Fox viewership is dying. They're angry, fearful, irrational old white men. And they're dying.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/23/opinion/sunday/friedman-send-in-the-clowns.html?_r=0
Exactly right BC. All of these factors though do not portend an easy victory for us. They only show the world is changing without them, and they are becoing increasingly irrelevant with people that want a return of justice and compassion.
Can I count on your support Buttercup in hoping that this old white dude does not die off too prematurely?? lol
~Odin~
That last comment/question was a 'set-up' for you to say something nice about me.......I'm waiting. ;-)
No way. You're hot!
They ditched Sarah I Don't Know What News I Read Palin. The Tea Party knuckle draggers days are numbered. They'll continue to put more nails in the coffin of the Republican Party. It will be 6 feet under. Just a matter of time.
Fox News sees which way the wind is blowing. As a media outlet, they may be able to evolve. The Right wing base - that's another story. It's illogical to believe that people that don't believe in evolution, can evolve.
Good point BC. "It's illogical to believe that people that don't believe in evolution, can evolve." Still though I think some of the more enlightened moderat R's do believe in scientific facts, and I also believe they are 'reachable' in our struggle.
BTW...you're pretty hot yourself! Errr...maybe we should carry this on in a PM. lol
~Odin~
So now old people are the enemy? Is it now young against old rather than good vs bad? You've lost me.
No Narley, old people are not the enemy. If they were, i would have to think about getting better locks for the house, as i am a grandpa myself. The mere fact that you are here, and in the plus column in points suggests to me that your brain is still firing on all cylinders.
It is just the Republican party has relied heavily on older white folks for their support. Many of them are living in yesterday, with very intolerant views on life, and they do not realize the world around them is changing, and they simply cannot adapt.
~Odin~
Baby boomers are notoriously nostalgic. Technically, I’m too old to be a baby boomer since I was born before 1946. But the point is most seniors, like me, yearn for simpler times. A time when we feel society had a stronger moral compass and clearer sense of right and wrong. I don’t if we were any saner back then or not, but it seems like it to me. I suggest that’s where the perceived intolerance comes from.
I make an effort to not demonize either left or right leaning folks. Each side thinks they have the answer. As a people we have to talk to each other before we can fix our problems. Just to call each other names just deepens our division.
We are a divided people. Our politicians just reflect our society. We hate each other with so much passion it’s a wonder we aren’t killing each other over different political views. I blame of this on biased news reporting, on both sides.
I don’t know the solution. No matter what the politicians do half the population will hate you. All I know is it’ll never be fixed as long as just blame the other side.
I think I could speak for most of the people in Occupy, and say the world needs more people like you Narley, and if we did have more people like you, we wouldn't be here now. Your yearning for simpler times when people had more integrity, and the country on the whole had a better set of ethos is not unlike what most people in Occupy want. In fairness though, those times were not without real problems too, especially if you were a person who was not white.
The mostly younger people that i know in Occupy Wall Street, and that are close to the heart of this movement in NYC are wonderful, bright, determined kids who sacrifice so much of their time in their quest to make this a better world...and I would be proud to call the over-whelming majority of them my son or daughter if they were.
Some people mistakenly view them as radicals, but in reality they are not. Rather Narley... what has been going on in this country for the last thirty plus years is very radical, ever since neoliberalism was introduced to our land.
There is nothing radical about wanting a return of the rule of law where those that betray the trust of the people go to jail no matter what their status
There is nothing radical about wanting to be able to pay off your college loans, Rather these kids are seeing good paying jobs that would enable them to do so being out-sourced over-seas
There is nothing radical about these kids being angry seeing their Dad lose his job for that same above reason, and then knowing that the vulture capitalist who orcestrated the buy out of his company make millions in the process
There is nothing radical with these kids being angry at this corrupt system that caused their parents to lose their home after they co-signed for their college loan
There is nothing radical about these kids being angry at the banking system for having irresponsibly lost the money.... that was in investments that had AAA ratings ....that their granparents needed for a golden retirement
There is nothing radical about wanting these bankers to go to jail for their reckless criminal behavior, which caused so much human misery when it all went bust in 2008.
There is nothing radical about these kids wanting a more sustainable environment. This isn't 1960. Our abuses have caught up with us, and if we don't do something soon, the rest won't matter.
There is nothing radical about people who want the interests of the people to come before those of big banking and corporate interests
The corrupt system that we live under, and that has rigged it for the benefit of the 1%, and to the detriment of most of the people in the 99% has been accomplished by creating, and nurturing those Left/Right divisons in our country, and you are very in tune to the deleterious effects it has had,and continues to have on us as a society.
Once again Narley, if there were more people like you in the world, most of us wouldn't be here now.
~Odin~
Oh my friend, you make an old man blush. I’m not sure I deserve the praise. I just believe we must stop yelling at each other. Calling names and berating people with different views just exacerbates the situation. Focus on issues, not the people.
I’ve never been an activist. Never been to a protest of any kind. I’m not sure protests accomplish much these days. Well maybe they do rally the already faithful. But I doubt protests change anyone’s mind. Especially if they involve rowdy behavior. If anything protests of this sort turn people off. I understand the initial OWS protests brought attention to the issues. But I think for continued success, OWS will have to change their tactics to more patible methods the masses can relate to.
It is very true that we should strive to listen and understand the other side because we might very well be sheltered by our own circumstances or upbringings. Some older people may have stopped updating their thinking so they fall prey easily to Fox News. However, other older people can and do change their minds. Though the flesh is old, the spirit is new.
Thank you Sir. I'm a geezer who moved from a hard core conservative who has moved more toward the middle. I make an effort to look as the issue rather than some party line. I highly recommend it to others.
Sometimes other people do know things better. That is why I believe in my people because I have been proven wrong before, falling into the trap of thinking too narrowly and missing the important contextual connections. Yes, I believe in the "wisdom of the crowd" as well as the "madness of the mob."
Needless to say, it is a little bit hard to determine which is a crowd and which is a mob but evaluating possible outcomes according to my values can help.
Anyone can be/get nostalgic. More so as one gets older.
This is The Fox veginning to die
http://www.nationaljournal.com/politics/sarah-palin-and-the-end-of-an-era-20130126
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/29/fox-news-ratings-lows-cable-news-january_n_2576689.html?utm_hp_ref=fox-news
Replace Bill O'Reilly with Ted Nugent. That oughta fix the problem. Suprised Fox hasn't thought of that. It's their kind of news.
I don't consider replacing one right winger with another would fix the problem at Fox.
~Odin~
It was a joke, Duh.
Errr... OK, I gotta lighten up, sorry.
~Odin~
NO! NO! NO!
Bring back Sarah!
Palin and Nugent? I hate Fox, but I'd even watch that show. Issue armored vests to the camera crew.
The numbers could be important, if they hold up.
Immediately after the election Hannity "evolved" on immigration, other fox news personalities followed, and they have been a little less (just a little) extremist. That might be depressing the numbers. Even Rush (not fox) was polite to Rubio recently. And many fox guests have stated that repubs have to stop saying stupid rapy things. Fox also fired Palin. All of this is as indicative as the ratings of change at Fox. But not necessarily permanent. So less extremism could depress the ratings.
I would also say that Fox mislead their audience by pushing false polling and dismissing real polling during the election. Rove melted down, cause like their viewers he believed the hype. As a result some may have lost confidence in the station. That could recover with the passage of time.
Certainly it is natural for numbers to be up during the election, and to come down after. It is reasonable for the losing side to recover ratings slower.
I wouldn't count them out yet.
I don't see Fox fixing itslef anytime soon. While their management might realize the changing demographics and a more tolerant society, like some of those in the Republican party do...
Fox's hard-core, right-wing listeners have not had this epiphany, nor will they probably ever. So, I guess what I am trying to say is the trouble Fox is having is serving as a microcosm to the problems the Repulican party is having on the whole....hence the DIVIDE.
After having been deceived for so long, I just view all this as 'political theatre' (Hedges' term), but like I have implied, all this does is serve as a welcome barometer of an increasingly enlightened populace, which portends well for our movement in the foreseeable future.
As in most all elections, it is the moderates, repubs and dems who determine victory. That dynamic is in play in our stuggle too, and that is one of the main reason why this should be a right vs. wrong struggle.... nothing else.
These moderates are 'reachable' if we do this right. We need them, and many of them are not of the same ilk as the wackos.
As i have found out persoanlly, nothing takes 'the wind out of the sails' of someone who you are trying to convince to support OWS...than by beginning your spiel by saying something like;
'This is not about Left vs. Right, but rather it is about RIGHT vs. WRONG, and what has been going on in this country for the past 30 plus years is terribly wrong.' That followed up with statistics, and facts. You will rarely convince them, but you have planted the seed, and that seed may well bloom at a later time.
In any event this rev shoud not be waged in the negatavism of anger, at the very least, not a Left vs. Right anger, and that is clearly not the way that i see the determined people who are closer to the heart of this movement being.
~Odin~
I agree that the moderates are the best opportunity to grow the movement and that wackos are probably impossible to reach. Right vs Wrong is a fine approach, (there will always be disputes as to what is right & wrong but I support the concept)
I think as more and more people realize they (or their children) are being victimized, "held down", by crushing debt, stagnant wages, rising costs, and outsourced jobs they will come over to our way of thinking and join Occupy or some other progressive group. (doesn't matter which).
As I discuss the right and wrong of these issues I don't have to say that a living wage, and fair taxes are leftist, or progressive, but I also shouldn't lie. In fact I wouldn't want to lie.
So I agree, starting our spiel with right vs wrong is a good approach but if we never discuss the details we are not being entirely honest. People will realize that supporting unions,and cooperative worker owned businesses, are squarely progressive. They may feel as if we are trying to fool them, they may feel betrayed. We may push them away not at the beginning but at the end of our spiel.
Isn't honesty the best policy? Why should we hide the roots of our beliefs and ideology? Is it bad to believe in progressive health care for all? Zinn, Chomsky, Richard Wolf, can't be dressed up as anything but leftists.
I won't disagree with your approach, but how do you deal with the inevitable betrayal the potential convert may feel if we aren't up front and tell them 30 years of trickle down, union busting, weak regs on banks are NOT progressive (leftist) and have devastated the 99%.?
You bring up some good points ICMN ;-). This movement should not be based on deceit in any way. We've had enough of that shit. The facts, and the downward trends that correlate with them over the last 30 plus years speak for themselves. It is our job to tie that package together, and leave it to those people to decide whether this is about right and wrong, or their wanting to continue down the divisive path of Right vs Left. Once again the facts, trends speak for themselves.
I believe this quote (which i had in another comment recently) from the editor, Thilo Schaefer of the cooperatively owned La Marea magazine in Spain is good advice for us too. He said, "The strategy this time isn't to shout about injustice like another loud, angry, leftist voice singing to an audience of activists, but to prove and make the point with facts - to reach a broader public."
We should NOT 'offer up' labels though for what, yes are progressive ideas, as by doing so, people's brains seem to shut down, and we end up with the more divisness old Left vs Right battles that go nowhere. For far too long people have been putting labels on good ideas, and on other people, and it drives me nuts, as people's brains can't seem to get beyond not only the labels, but catch phrases, and talking points as well.
As i learned from a Bill Moyers' interview these devious methods often emanated in slick lobbyists offices, and they were repeated over and over again, sometimes verbadim, most notably in the health care debate. The objective was to scare the living daylights out of people, and they succeeded mostly.
As you implied, when people are able to understand, and to tie in their pain or the pain of a loved one to the bigger picture of having lost control of our governemnt to corrupt special interests, they will be able to overlook the differences that divide us for the Greater Good. Remembering that this corrupt system that we live under has played itself out in a plethora of ways on different people is very important to our success.
Some people here believe that we should be more singular in our approach, but i disagree because of our recruiting efforts mostly Many of the people that we are trying to convert just either don't have the time, or the political savvy that we do. (I know how that sounds, but I do not mean it in a derogatory way). So we must reach out, and be empathetic to people in their individual plights, and make them realize that they are not alone, and they like us are either victims or potential ones of a corrupted government that no longer puts people's interests first.
Yes I do believe that we should push for tangible victories in the political arena too, although OWS should do this from the outside. Pushing for a living wage, or at least an increase in the minimum wage has been the subject of at leat two threads (one of which was mine) on here that got over 300 hits each. Considering that minimum wage is worth something like 30% less, in real dollars adjusted for inflation, than it was 40 years ago, well this could well be an attainable victory which we could build this movement on. For what it is worth, Ralph Nader suggested that OWS do this. I think he is right.
In any event, 'deception' is what got us here, but it shoud play no part of what gets us out of this unenviable point in our history that we find ourselves in. The truth is on our side, and it should be our job to promulgate it to the "broader public."
http://dandelionsalad.wordpress.com/2012/03/05/minimum-wage-catching-up-with-1968-by-ralph-nader/
~Odin~
i agree that a non partisan approach can attract some people who are turned off by leftist ideology. I'm not proposing any one take a partisan approach, although I must say I would not discourage a fellow occupier who insists on expressing issues (like min/living wage) as a progressive goal that has historically been opposed by the right wing. Because that would be honest.
Eventually the realization that our agenda IS a progressive one (left) cannot be hidden and I am all about embracing all non violent tactics like the OWS early documents state.
I don't get wrapped up too much with the labels. I like the non partisan approach. I also put little value in the suggestion that it is someones plan to have us fight over the labels. I don't buy that. I think we can discuss the issues and grow the movement by showing we are all victims of a screwed up system, and the solutions (like living wage) are progressive.
Some will reject us because they hear "progressive" that is unfortunate maybe they are the less savvy you mentioned. Hopefully enough will be savvy enough to decide based on our position on the issues.
Certainly all anyone has to do is look at the issues we fight for, look at the occupations, at the signs, at the people we refer to, at the people we support (Stein, Nader) to know where we land on the political spectrum.
I don't push party labels, but I know we can't hide reality and I know people are resentful if they feel mislead.
I am not suggestng that we hide our agenda. We do not want to be the Hubert Humphrey....all things to all people... of the Revolutionary World either. What people want to label is up to them, however i believe what we should sell it as is a' Right vs Wrong one. This is not disingenuous, nor do I believe it is a nuance if we want to reach into the middle of the political spectrum for support in an expeditious manner.
Many of the issues that we support are ones that are supported by the PEOPLE in the corporate/banking owned Democratic party. There are a plethora of grass-root groups both with-in Occupy, and outside of it that are waging our struggle in different ways. If some groups want to fight this battle from within the political system, fine...go for it, but i will never believe Occupy should have any alliance with either of the two parties.
~Odin~
I agree we should be reaching out to moderates (they are most likely to join us), I repeat the non partisan approach is a good approach.
I'm going to avoid attacking any particular party. I may not agree with your possible leanings.
I expect and support OWS continue outside the system. No political alliance necessary (and no need to attack any particular party either) We will continue representing the ideal goal of where our society needs to be. We will continue encouraging, empowering, & showing the way for progressive groups who do work within the system. (which is necessary since we are apparently not gettin anywhere creating the new system). And we will continue pushing the country and politicians closer to our preferred solutions.
With the exception of me being a bit more wary about us having anything to do with-in the system, we're on the same page.
~Odin~
You may be more wary but that would be ok. I feel wary just fine. Obviously we are probably most concerned about the specific issues, wages, healthcare, fairtaxes, outsourcing. That is what concerns me most of all. OWS concerns me only in our capacity to achieve these goals.
We have a monumental task, but I'm up for it. You??
~Odin~
Yiiiiiep! I'm ready.
For some reason, i am unable to edit my thread, so here's that link.
http://www.truthdig.com/eartotheground/item/giffords_emotional_plea_on_guns_fox_news_ratings_plummet_and_more_20130130/
~Odin~
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Life goes on. BTW, you look much wiser than me, but not nearly as handsome.
~Odin~
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Awnery old Vermonters grow on you after a while. Once this 'flat-lander' got over the misconception that i knew what was best for them (about a 3 yr process), some of my best friends were VTers, and once you have one as a friend, you have a good friend. That 'process' can also be shortened if you find yourself stuck in a ditch in a snow-storm.
~*Odin
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You can get away with that anonymity when you live in the big city of Burlington, but in the rural towns of Vermont, it is impossible to remain anonymus for long.
Good deeds will follow you, but unfortunately like the VSP, so will any indiscretions that you might have.
Besides one tug won't do it, as I know most of you guys, unlike the gals!... don't drive 4 wheel drive vehicles. Instead you have taken a liking to old 2 WD Chevys with 4-6 cement blocks in the trunk! ;-)
~Odin~
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i succeeded in getting your gander up
~Odin~
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Open it in google chrome instead of IE to edit, and go to redit to learn how to format, TruthDig story just some tips
Open it in google chrome instead of IE to edit, and go to redit to learn how to format, TruthDig story don’t let it go to your head
So Fox News changing means that conservatives are going to embrace progressive ideas?
Is Fox the one getting rid of an anchorwoman because she is "too ethnic" or is that another new network?
I really have not heard anything about that. I'm sure that they would not use that as a reason for letting her go, as of course they would be liable for a big law suit then.
~Odin~
Unless of course it is a right to work state - if so - they don't have to have reason - they just say BuBye.
OK, but Fox or anyone else could not say openly that they were getting rid of her because she was "too ethnic" like FZ implied without being susceptible to a law suit.
~Odin~
That is why they would deny any such thing. Her only hope at recourse would be if She were under contract and if she could prove that they violated her contract.
OK....but if this guy on here heard it, we can then assume (yes i know that saying) other people MAY have heard it which if they testified, Fox would be screwed. Also the burden of proof is not nearly as high in a civil suit.
~Odin~
It's CNN and Soledad O'Brien
They dumped her? Under what pretense?
~Odin~
Too ethnic. Or her audience was, except me I guess. Part of Zucker's revamping. Erin Burnett will probably replace Soledad, since Burnett can't even spell ethnic.
The fact that Burnett is younger, and perhaps more of a babe wouldn't have anything to do with it, would it?
~Odin~
Burnett is pretty smart, did you ever watch her on CNBC? Im sure some finance people would disagree, but compared to the general population pretty smart.
I like Burnett and if they want to avoid being too ethnic, she's perfect. I just wish Kiran would come back. If they paired her with Zoradia I'd be late to work every day.
I always thought Erin Burnett was an oil whore, oligarch mouthpiece.
Why do you think she fits in at CNN so well? :)
Are you kidding? You don't see how CNN/MSM is oligarchal corp whores? I suppose I have less confidence in MSM than most. She's not bad lookin though.
She probably wanted to speak her mind :)
Dang, she should know better. I met her Dad years ago at a Thanksgiving dinner in a church in Vermont. He was very proud of her.
~Odin~
I bet, thats a huge achievement, regardless of ones views of the MSM.
Yeah it was, and the fact that she was the daughter of an Afro-Cuban mom, and an Aussie dad made it even more of an achievment. I always liked her even if she was in the MSM.
~Odin~