Forum Post: What would Jesus occupy?
Posted 13 years ago on Oct. 11, 2011, 11:59 a.m. EST by arealpolitik
(154)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
Charles Redfern - The Alternative Mainstream has contributed 38 articles. http://www.theblogfarm.com/what-would-jesus-occupy/
Do those protesting against greedy Wall Street barons know they’ve got a friend in Jesus? Sample the following texts from the Good Book:
Luke 6:20:
Looking at his disciples, he said: “Blessed are you who are poor, for yours is the kingdom of God.”
Luke 6:24:
“But woe to you who are rich, for you have already received your comfort.
Luke 18:18-25:
A certain ruler asked him, “Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?”
“Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good—except God alone. You know the commandments: ‘You shall not commit adultery, you shall not murder, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, honor your father and mother.’”
“All these I have kept since I was a boy,” he said.
When Jesus heard this, he said to him, “You still lack one thing. Sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven.
Then come, follow me.”
When he heard this, he became very sad, because he was very wealthy. Jesus looked at him and said, “How hard it is for the rich to enter the kingdom of God! Indeed, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.”
Jesus’ teaching is reflected in James 1:10:
But the one who is rich should take pride in his low position, because he will pass away like a wild flower.
These passages and more stand on the shoulders of Old Testament teaching in which God befriends the poor. No one knows if Jesus, James, and the prophets would have joined the “Occupy America” campaign, but I doubt they’d smile at current statistics: According to Joseph Stiglitz, the wealthiest one percent received 8.9 percent of all pre-tax income in 1976. That leaped to 21 percent by 2008. The top five percent saw their real income increase by 72 percent while income for the lowest fifth dropped 7.4 percent. And then there are tax rates, which stood at 91 percent for the highest earners in 1960. They’re now at 35 percent – and many tycoons still clamor for more decreases. I doubt our modern brokers would even pose the rich young ruler’s question to Jesus. They’d probably send in their lobbyists with lists of demands accompanied by complaints of “class warfare.”
Maybe they’d brand his followers a “mob.”
The Bible shows us that the campaign against greedy wealth is thousands of years old. The protestors could cull its pages between marches – or maybe they can listen to it over their IPhones (yeah, there’s an app for that). It will give the rallies a larger context and a deeper well.
"Faith without works is dead"
and
Mark 12:17 "Then Jesus said to them, "Give to Caesar what is Caesar's and to God what is God's." And they were amazed at him."
Jesus threw the money changers out of the temple; I think it's the only time he is known to have lost his temper. In those days, people had to come once a year to pay a tax to the temple. Someone came up with the idea that you could pay this tax only with a certain coin that you could only get from the money changers. They, of course, charged a fee for changing whatever money you had into the special coin. Did not go over big with J.
Thank you for this; too few people realize that the radical movements in Judea always had a political edge, in that they always sought to reinvigorate the religious foundations of the Jewish people in the face of Hellenism (under the Greek empire) and later, assimilation into Roman society, as exemplified by Herod and his subversion of the Temple Priesthood for political purposes. That, and the divisions between the Priesthood and the Rabbinical courts (Saducees & Pharisees, respectively), are what left a spiritual vacuum that Jesus' teachings and examples filled. It was always political, and about the vast divide between leadership and the people!
The three differences (only) that truly separate the Torah, Bible, and/or Koran are as follows: Eternity, final Judgement, and Jesus Christ. Well "WE" have the first two licked because "No one" can dispute who rules those courses. Jesus is/was a/the key to salvation (FYI that's all folks!). It is incomprehensible when trying to communicate that a few differences, which are the same words (only spoken in a different way), and/or "PEOPLE", can undermine all the rest. Most especially "using" that person (ETC.) to do it. Loved your piece, right on. "Most sincerely", (LOVE-n-STUFF) DONNIE Salem Mass. P.S. EST. 1626 Any "war" between Heaven and/or Hell "WE" know (as it is written) was really over before it even started, because those that were cast out were (and still are) fleeting. If there is any ongoing war it is between those cast out and humans, and if there is a bet (a.k.a. capture the flag) it is that "man" being mortal (a.k.a. within our limited time given / allowed /ETC.) could not possibly prove that "WE" could rise to the level of those that are immortal (a.k.a. timeless). Man is "NOT" being forsaken by the LORD OUR GOD, HE IS CONSTANTLY BEING STRENGTHENED, FOR SOME WILL NEVER NOT ONLY BOW DOWN BECAUSE OF EVIL, WILL NEVER LOSE THEIR FAITH. There is only one place in scripture where "EVIL" is said to be a living breathing thing (never named). It is what is inside any human (although not all can be blamed on "them"), that would make "US" do such things, that we can/will conquer, and when we do, believe and trust that many indignities may "not" have to be suffered (shared). Maybe if we do "NOT" use capital punishment (a.k.a. kill) those that were wrongfully controlled from within (a.k.a. hold them till they pass on naturally) thus leaving finale judgement where it belongs, and do it with the hope that something known, unknown and/or otherwise may be rightfully returned, not for us (or anything), but because it should have never been taken, we gain more than just "something". Man is the "key" to proving just how wrong those cast out, angels/demons/humans (etc.) were/are and possibly returning all that was wrongfully taken from the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost (AMEN). Ready "GO" (What If? The Band Creed/Album "Human Clay" PEACE).+
The Alternative Mainstream is like saying the Not the Opposite of Nonsense. And I will leave it at that.
Isn't it funny that when Moses came down from the mountain after receiving the commandments, he was angry at the people for worshiping a golden calf.
Today, the statue on wall street is a bronze bull.
lol ^^
and it has police protection
Jesus did not partake in political debates. Using Him for your political ends is disgraceful
OOPS! Sorry, I guess we disgraceful fellows forgot that Jesus was only interested in counting sins!!!
But seriously, my friend, Jesus, as well as all of the great Jewish prophets before him, were focused on SOCIAL JUSTICE and constantly attacked the rich and the powerful for not SHARING with the less fortunate.
Have you not read the Sermon on the Mount? "Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for justice".
And raising a whip in the Temple to chase the money changers, what was THAT if not a political act???
And have you not read the Preamble to the Constitution, where "Justice" and "general Welfare" appear even before "Liberty"? "We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessing of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity."
I submit to you that THE OWS MOVEMENT IS PROFOUNDLY CHRISTIC (Christ-like) and DEEPLY PATRIOTIC.
Romans 13: Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
2Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
3For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
4For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.
5Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.
6For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing.
7Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour.
8Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
9For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
11And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.
12The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light.
13Let us walk honestly, as in the day; not in rioting and drunkenness, not in chambering and wantonness, not in strife and envying.
14But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.
Also, chasing the money changers out of the temple was an act of purifying a house of the Lord, not a political act Also, sarcasm is a dishonest and rude debate tactic.
And WHO are you quoting, pray tell?
Are these the words of Jesus?
Methinks they are rather the extremely controversial words of a certain Paul of Tarsus, who NEVER walked with Jesus, who actually participated in the stoning and murder of Saint Stephen and then, after falling off a horse and seeing stars, suddenly decided to become a Christian... His "conversion" turned out to be a tragedy for the budding Jesus Movement.
Paul was probably sincere, as so many people are, but sadly he was also antisemitic, homophobic, misogynistic, intolerant - everything that Jesus was not. When the Jews became understandably angry with this character, what did he do? He suddenly reminded everyone that he was a Roman citizen and demanded to be judged by Emperor Nero! That's right, he ran and hid under the skirts of Papa Nero!!!
So that passage of Romans that you quote at length may have actually been written by Paul to ingratiate himself with Nero and the Roman authorities. It has been the object of considerable debate ever since. Small wonder, given that it is so reactionary in content and completely at odds with Jesus's teachings, which constantly highlight the INCOMPATIBILITY between "the World" and "the Kingdom of Heaven".
Guess who LOVED to clobber their traumatized people on the head that same passage of Romans? Murderous dictators such as Franco, Salazar, Pinochet, etc., etc. SHAME ON THEM FOR USING THE NAME OF GOD TO CRUSH HIS OWN CHILDREN!!! This is BLASPHEMY of the worst kind.
Paul is a divinely appointed apostle. If you want a quote from our Savior commanding his disciples to obey those in authority, here it is "Saying The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do
WHO says Paul was "divinely appointed"? PAUL says. It is HIS own claim.
We now know through thorough research that Paul was constantly in conflict with the other disciples - with Peter, for instance, and James. The very first Council was held to arbitrate a dispute between Paul and the others. Many in the early Church labeled Paul "the Liar". (If you doubt me, simply google "Paul "the Liar")
And Jesus was CONSTANTLY in conflict with the Pharisees, he railed against them as "hypocrites" and 'whitewashed tombs". So he never exemplified meek and blind obedience as so many Christian Churches would have us believe... He was a REAL MAN, a FIGHTER like Martin Luther King. Why do you think they both got murdered?
Jesus allowed himself to be killed to take away the sins of the world; He could have saved Himself at anytime he pleased, but saving the sinful creation was more important. Jesus said to do as the Pharisees say, but not to believe that doing works for them would save them. It is important to note that suffering in this world in nothing in comparison to standing before the glory of God in Heaven.
"Jesus allowed himself to be killed to take away the sins of the world" : that is the PAULIST doctrine that has poisoned the pristine simplicity of the teachings of Jesus. The Master NEVER talked about original sin, redemption, etc. That is strictly Paul's theology ("Paul at the Improv") and posits a wrathful God who needs to be pacified by bloody HUMAN SACRIFICE. Many - even the current conservative pope!!! - consider that (mis)reading of Jesus's message as "barbaric".
Anyway, God bless, that's all the time I have for "theological disputation".
In Peace.
Thanks for the intelligent discussion. I appreciate it because most people would just insult me personally and then write me off.
Thank you. We are brothers.
Jesus did not partake in political debates. Using Him for your political ends is disgraceful
OOPS! Sorry, I guess we disgraceful fellows forgot that Jesus was only interested in counting sins!!!
But seriously, my friend, Jesus, as well as all of the great Jewish prophets before him, were focused on SOCIAL JUSTICE and constantly attacked the rich and the powerful for not SHARING with the less fortunate.
Have you not read the Sermon on the Mount? "Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for justice".
And raising a whip in the Temple to chase the money changers, what was THAT if not a political act???
And have you not read the Preamble to the Constitution, where "Justice" and "general Welfare" appear even before "Liberty"? "We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessing of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity."
I submit to you that THE OWS MOVEMENT IS PROFOUNDLY CHRISTIC (Christ-like) and DEEPLY PATRIOTIC.
Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal: But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal: For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also. No one can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other; or else he will be devoted to one and despise the other. You can not serve both God and Mammon.
—Matthew 6:19-21,24
"Mammon" is an Aramaic (and Hebrew) word for money hence, "U can't serve god & money." Jesus told his disciples to go forth without money.
How about occupying Trinity Church (not far from Zuccotti park)?
http://666ismoney.com/MoneyQuotes.html
Mammon is the Syriac word for avarice - that is insatiable greed for riches; inordinate, miserly desire to gain and hoard wealth.
See definition of Mammon here: http://666ismoney.com/sitebuilder/images/Mammon2-520x217.jpg
and here:
http://www.experiencefestival.com/a/Mammon_-_Etymology/id/1742725
Also, the New English Version (Oxford) or New International version correctly says, "god & money":
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+16&version=NIV http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+16&version=ESV
Hebrew translation: http://translate.google.com/#iw|en|%D7%9E%D7%9E%D7%95%D7%9F
they are latter synonyms (possessions, money, gold) from the root in Syriac.
Are U one of those "Saint" Paulian Pharisees who loved money who heard all this and scoffed? (Luke 16:13-14)
No I am an atheist who believes that there a true statements and good advice in the bible (and many other holy books). I am not arguing with you other than to say that "money" is a simplistic translation of "mammon" - it has a richer (forgive the pun), more complex meaning - that it is the insatiable greed for riches or, more succinctly avarice.
OK, I doubt jesus existed, if he did exist, he certainly didn't walk on water. jesus was a revolutionary. Do U think jesus advocated eliminating money? (I do.)
Did U know that the word translated as "mark" actually means money, hence: "No one buys or sells without the MONEY of the beast on/in mind or hand"? -- Apocalypse.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/666_is_money/3046110725
I think in some sense he advocated the elimination of money, or at least the worship and leading of it - most of his teachings praise poverty and renounce riches.
Your rectum. Shallowly because of certain ethnic characteristics.
Which verse does he say we should feed the poor and cloth the naked by forcing Ceaser to take from the rich and give to those with student loans?