Forum Post: What to demand??
Posted 13 years ago on Oct. 17, 2011, 1:55 a.m. EST by pityu
(6)
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The Occupy Wall St movement has a few things going for it: youth, enthusiasm, volunteer spirit, efficient organization, the widespread frustration of the populous with the political influence of corporate interests that it can readily harness. However, it only has a limited amount of time to produce focused and practical demands to channel the energy of its supporters.
Its opponents are not anxious. They are in fact confident that this movement will soon fall apart with no practical impact, except probably for traces in the arts, literature and historical accounts of direct democracy. Its enemies know that a society of millions can fancy flareups of romantic dreams of direct democracy only for so long, can fall in love with such an idea only for a short while, as it cannot live with and practice such sentiments for any extended periods of time. They also know that any other form of democracy with unregulated influence from interest groups can be easily corrupted by the flow of money. They know that they as current beneficiaries of such influence, have the upper hand. They know their history, and they are confident that as history tells them, such romantic popular movements as OWS could not muster the staying power and focus to even start to alter the existing power structures in the past. OWS‘s targets and opponents in their point of view at worst might be pushed to select a fall guy or two for a Grand Show of Justice and otherwise can keep things the way they have been. They might take back a notch on the rate at which they are looting the resources of society, or at least on the rate at which they are shoving down the throat of society the impact of their looting, but only if absolutely necessary. They have the upper hand. The time is on their side.
The Occupy movement needs to find its focus and do it quickly if it is to avoid to become irrelevant. It quickly needs to produce demands that focus the energy of its supporters and keep the sympathy of the uncommitted 98%. Such a list of demands should not be of 12 or more points, ranging from the elimination of war to the implementation of free education. It should not even be four points. The movement needs to put on its flags and signs and demand a list of only 2 at most 3 strong points. The list should be short and very much to the point: demands that are not impractical to implement and would carry structural impact. This is the single task that the supporters of OWS have to concentrate on, apart from keeping their marches, their general assemblies and the public space they occupy orderly, civil and free of waste.
Here is one suggestion for a demand that could go a long way in cutting corporate political influence:
Demand:
Say Yes to “One person, one vote” and No to “One dollar one vote” political systems! Level the political playing field! Squeeze money out of undue political influence!
All persons, natural or corporate citizens of voting age should have the right for one political voice, but no person, natural or legal, should exercise excessive spending to unduly influence political or legal decisions!
Specifics of demand:
Only a natural person with voting right, a citizen, should hold political office. All persons, natural or legal (such as a citizen or a corporation) of age 18 years or older should have equal vote in political affairs.
No natural or legal person with voting right should be limited in its political speech, and in its right to vote, but all natural or legal persons should be limited in their financial contribution to holders or candidates of elected political or legal or law enforcement office.
Specifically:
Each politically active natural person, each citizen with voting rights, should personally represent his or her political interests without financial contribution to others or otherwise should be limited to make financial contributions to holders or candidates of elected political or legal law enforcement office or interest groups supporting holders or candidates of political or legal law enforcement office no more than 10% of the citizenry’s average yearly income. Any contribution beyond that should be made public and be taxed at the 500% rate and such taxes be payed by the individual into funds designated to alleviate outstanding public debt.
Each non-natural legal person with voting right should be required to designate a single natural person as its sole political representative for the representation of its political interests and any such political representative can contribute on its clients’ behalf no more than 10% of the citizenry’s average yearly income to holders or candidates of elected political or legal office or interest groups supporting holders or candidates of political or legal office. Any contribution beyond that should be made public and be taxed at the 500% rate and the tax be payed by the designated individual political representative into funds designated to alleviate outstanding public debt.
Any holders or candidates for elected political or legal or law enforcement office, or any legal persons declared as political interest groups supporting holders or candidates for elected political or legal or law enforcement office, could receive tax free unlimited fully disclosed monetary contributions observing the requirements above. Non-disclosed contributions should be returned to the donor. Violation of these rules should constitute the violation of public interest, should constitute a felony, resulting in criminal procedures against the natural person at fault or dissolution of the legal person at fault, and any funds given in violations of these requirements should be taxed at the 500% rate and the tax be payed by the person or its political representative into funds designated to alleviate outstanding public debt.
I like this.
I think we should ask Obama for reassurance that he has our best interests at heart.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/sign-the-petition-at-whitehousegov/
.. I saw an article in the NYTimes this a.m. that claims having specific demands is/will be 'necessary' for OWS to be successful.
I don't know if this is true- I think the actions of the group, so far, are AWESOME and I THANK YOU for being here!- but.. as a political UN-sophisticate, I'd start of with these 'demands':
1) FLAT tax based on income. for all.
2) HEALTH INSURANCE for all. not based on income.
3) and.. in another article, earlier this week, one company was letting 2 top executives go, each with $11million severance package, while preparing to lay off 30,000 (30 thousand..) employees: whatever DEMAND that falls under, I'd like to see this practice stopped.
! meanwhile, BRAVISSIMO to all of you
Boycott imported goods!!!! Buy Made in the USA!!!
Matt Taibbi lists 5 demands:
Break up the monopolies. He's talking about the 20 or so "too big to fail" companies in our country that could single-handedly take down our economy.
Pay for your own bailouts. "A tax of 0.1 percent on all trades of stocks and bonds and a 0.01 percent tax on all trades of derivatives would generate enough revenue to pay us back for the bailouts, and still have plenty left over to fight the deficits the banks claim to be so worried about..."
No public money for private lobbying. Pretty self-explanatory.
Tax hedge-fund gamblers. Right now, because of the carried-interest tax break, they're only paying about 15%.
Change the way bankers get paid. Bonuses shouldn't be paid up-front. They should be contingent upon performance.
It may sound like a Tea Party idea and I must admit I was at first doubtful. I consider myself a very liberal democrat. However, after talking with many people I have met at Occupy SF and doing independent research, I have come to the conclusion that the single greatest thing this movement could achieve for this nation is to end the Federal Reserve Bank.
The concept of central bank is a complete scam that was well known by the founding fathers. It had been fought off several times throughout the nations history until it took hold in 1913. It began as a Republican bill that was rejected. After meaningless modifications were made to suit the tepid demands of Democrats, it passed with Democratic President Woodrow Wilson's signature. Republicans faked a protest over the modifications and this major bluff worked and got Wilson to sell out the entire country's monetary system to a private bank.
The ramifications of this are dire. Under such a system, for the country to fund any expenditure it must borrow the money at interest from the Fed. If the government then does not take anymore loans but eventually retrieves the money through taxation, it will not have enough to pay back the loan because there is now interest added. To get the money for this we need to borrow again. Thus it is a never ending enslavement of the entire nation to a private entity.
I believe that everyone well informed knows that the end of the fed is an inevitable part of the change that must - and thus WILL - happen over the next few years. I do not believe it's a practical first step or demand. Rather focus on gaining back the power for the people and transparency so all become aware of what's really going on...
Well in formed is the key word. Unfortunately, when it comes to monetary policy, most are not well informed. Naturally, to accomplish the end of a 100 year scam we will need to gain power back to the people and transparency as you say. But the truth of the Fed can mobilize people from all socioeconomic backgrounds. The Fed benefits not the 1% but the top 1% of the top 1% of the top 1%. The sooner we lead on this issue, the sooner it will be our own. If it is accomplished the credibility of the movement would be set in stone.
Agreed. And I sustain that the way to start is to demand transparency, which will create the needed awareness to then focus on transitioning away from it, while having the second focus be to have the people reclaim the power via the mentioned digital direct democracy system. As you will also know, ending the Fed is not an issue that the people of the US could do alone, for it is not a national organization and intrinsically intertwined with the world bank and owned primarily by the Chinese now, I believe, but definitely a supranational group that has claim to the chattel and the issue is a tricky one to navigate...
Please join our OWS working group:
https://sites.google.com/site/the99percentdeclaration/
In my perspective the strength and uniqueness of this movement is that for the first time a significant number of people that range from the far left to the far right have taken to the street with a shared frustration that has the potential of unifying the country across political perspectives - and that understand that the changes they want are so fundamental that most can't even begin to put their finger on it.
So I firmly believe the PRIMARY focus of the movement must be to clearly define what that greatest COMMON denominator across the board is and to verbalize it clearly enough - and with practical enough demands - for the 98% trying to decide if they are represented here to join forces - while ensuring not to scatter into the many other topics that these diverse parties largely disagree upon, for we all know how effective divide and conquer is. Strength is ONLY in unity of The People and that requires willingness to focus on only the shared interests.
The way I see it, these are primarily pointing to 2 practical demands (and I agree it really shouldn't be much more):
More specifically about 1), the one point I do not agree with you about, Pityu, is "that a society of millions can fancy flareups of romantic dreams of direct democracy only for so long, can fall in love with such an idea only for a short while, as it cannot live with and practice such sentiments for any extended periods of time." This USED to be true and the reason this democracy couldn't possibly work anymore even if all had the best intentions. However, today we have highly advanced internet technology and we would be perfectly capable - and I know of the completely sufficient plans - to implement a highly effective digital direct democracy overlay to the current system, that would allow us to quickly transition to a system that truly is of the people, of the people and by the people again, wherein the representatives would once again only play the role and have the authority to execute the will of the people. Nothing else. Going into details as to how that would effectively and efficiently be possible goes far beyond the scope of this conversation, but it is and and it has been figured out far beyond sufficiently to be used as a basis for crowdsourced refinement - and you will all soon hear about it...
I agree that OWS should've had an extremely focused goal. However, the time for specifics has come and gone. The movement has peaked already, and now begins its slow decline into oblivion. I'm so disappointed. This was very exciting, and a great effort.
This movement has only just begun. And it needs all of us to remain engaged and focused in order to be successful in the long run. For example, the Civil Rights movement that began in the 1940s is still going today, and it was many years before they accomplished anything on the national scene. But once it did start, it stayed, and it changed this country forever.
When you think about it, does it really matter how long it takes to get justice? Or whether specific individuals let the movement down? The call for justice has gone out, and it is reverberating in hearts and minds throughout the country and around the world. It might take a good long while, but I, for one, will speak and demonstrate until we finally get the change we need.
Keep hope alive!
Keep hope alive!!
The Civil Rights movement was indeed a success, thanks to MLK and a very specific goal. That goal was to allow African Americans to have the same rights as everyone else. Simple. Concise.
I admire your enthusiasm. I'm still hopeful that things will change for the better eventually. This movement was definitely a step in the right direction.
This movement IS a step in the right direction. Shake off those funky blues and then take a look over here and give us your input:
http://occupywallst.org/forum/poll-what-do-you-want-in-a-money-out-of-politics-a/
massive, epic, not really i just wanted to say that. but!... you are right. you are so fkn right it hurts a little. but i am also very very sure there are the right people at the right time in the nycga for this long awaited revolution. i always knew it would be a social revolution. did you see the protesters in roam ditch the anarchist, leaving them behind to get arrested by themselves? this is the right time, the right people. give them a minute and the lid is going to melt before it has time to flip. what i mean to say is wait and watch... closely. this place is chaotic, but i found it gives the trolls and other troublemakers a place to feel they are doing something. the rest, much like our gov, is not for public viewing :)
Repeal Gramm-Leach Bliley. This is one very direct, responsible demand. It goes straight to the heart of the problem. This is the main reason the financial crash happened. Repeal would hit the Big Banks + CEOs where they live.
a sensible stimulus - http://occupywallst.org/forum/the-one-stimulus-everyone-can-and-will-get-behind/
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Free education for example city universities through out the U.s And more free programs for educating our youths to properly help them learn how to live in this world and be able to contribute to society.
Term Limitations for starters!
Definitely! These Congressmen are so damn worried about being re-elected and becoming career politicians that they spend most of their time catering to the banks and corporations for their next campaign...eventually working for them. Aren't they in a public service position...for the people?
People have been trying to get Term Limitations since the 60's. How can we get for 2012? It's like taking food out of a dog's mouth. There is going to be a fight.