Forum Post: What justice is there in jailing?
Posted 12 years ago on April 23, 2012, 3:06 p.m. EST by 4TheHumanSocietyProject
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I have long thought about how we lock people up for committing crimes. I wonder why we even do it... The jails and prisons do nothing but deter humanity from becoming educated. We have people that go to jail every day and it does nothing for society... Nothing changes... People do not just miraculously get better nor does society. This entire outrage over Trayvon and jailing Zimmerman is not going to solve any problems. They say we want "Justice". What justice is there in locking someone up? Its not like crime stops because cops are out there doing something... I believe the problem is society is left in the dust with poverty and lack of education. What is your take on the situation?
I do not believe in some utopian bullshit, I believe that if we had a population with better education and a better economic system that supports the people the crime would be almost gone.
anarchist believe that crime is a symptom of a sick society - makes sense to me.
AS I believe a educated population needs no government. When I say educated I mean really educated. Emotional education , Mathmatical education, Sociological education and scientific education. I am sure there is more that I missed but I think I made myself clear.
Crime will never be "almost gone". Better education and better economic system ( whatever that means) may reduce crime a little, but it will always be with us.
Why?
Look at some European countries. Look at Japan. They have superior education systems, welfare states, and they still have crime. Sweden has a rise in violent crimes, especially rape, in the last 10 years. Norway has Brevik. Etc....crime is a part of human society.
I mean, have you ever looked at the numbers? Yes, they have some crime, but drastically lower crime rates compared to the US.
But they still have poverty and inequality that is bread by competition.
Competition in one form or another is a part of human nature. The single most murderous, ignorant, simply fucking retarded thing about you leftists is you are so arrogant and self absorbed that you think you can change that nature.
Well I do not believe in human nature or anything you just said. If it was human nature one couldn't control it and no one should be punished for it. All humans are the same, some are just conditioned differently.
You keep believing that human history, science, and experience is non existent. You keep believing that somehow, someway, you have discovered the TRUTH! You keep believing in all that Skinner crap!
Well the science proves that human nature is not the same for everyone and that human nature itself is subject to change. It would only mean that nurture is involved as human nature would represent a non changing way that is in all humans. Everything is subject to change and we must use the scientific method of thinking in human lives. If that happens we can see a more critical thinking population.
As in BF Skinner? He did some great work (it's pretty dated at this point, but his experiments were interesting nonetheless). My favorite was his pigeon experiments :)
You are certainly an unpleasant person. Did your mommy abuse you? So much of what you post is name calling and vitriol. Oh, well, I wish you the best. Perhaps a mental-health professional can help you.
Perhaps the real name callers are you shit on the left.
A link that speaks to the gist of your forum-post :
fiat lux ...
Interesting thank you.
While there is a lot to do to educate better and have better economic opportunity which would allow for people to become a productive segment of society (not commit crime), but there will always be some that will go the other way. But when a crime is committed, surely you would agree that there must be some form of punishment / incarceration, especially for repeat offenders. Do you propose an alternative to incarceration?
Violent crime is disproportionate among one racial group. Until that fact is admitted to amd addressed, nothing will change. It is easy to yell "racist" and try to deflect from the ugly truth, but that only enables the problem and is counterproductive if you want to seriously address this problem. Is poverty and a lack of a decent education part of the problem? Of course, but so is a lack of having positive role models, as well as having too many fatherless children with bastard siblings all from different fathers in one family. If it were just economic or education related, then why doesn't the poor white community have the same issues as other poor communities? There is a cultural issue at play here that many want to ignore. Until it is culturally unacceptable to be in a gang, or a dead beat dad, or go to jail, or drop out of school, things will not improve.
Nice to see you back on the forum. You are right that the causes of crime lie deep in our society and that jailing people is a mere band-aid.
And thank you for still being here with your wisdom.
Hey BW. Band-aid? I suppose though I tend to think of it more like a tourniquet though. Because the longer the tourniquet remains in place the more endangered the limb becomes - eventually the limb dies from lack of circulation and must be removed. Yes this country has a lot of deep seated problems that feed the growth of crime as well as the prosecution and imprisonment for stupid stuff. There is a whole lot of work and attention this society needs. Speaking of which did you see the episode of Frontline tonight? If not it replays tomorrow night second half of the documentary next week. Be prepared to say WOW.
I did watch it. Watched the first hour closely and then was busy with something else so sort of watched the second hour. It was good, but I will not pretend to understand all of the finance related activity that went on. LOL! And, I'm not sure how much of an "accident" the whole thing was. Those people are getting no pass from me for being such smartypants as to come up with Credit Default Swaps under the vise of innocently not knowing what damage it could do.
Exactly. They have that higher education thing going on for them - Right? Then they continued ( when they realized - Really? ) to sell the toxic shit and try to unload it to others as quick as possible ( the speed of business ) giving the shit false ratings so that they could sucker someone into taking it off of their books.
Oh it truly pisses me off the frauds they pulled to sell the shit after it was more than apparent to everyone involved that it was toxic failure they were selling.
Thank you. My feelings exactly. I resent seeing these preened ivy-leaguers sort of giggling over how smart they were, but oops, we didn't realize how deleterious our greed would be. And, at another point someone was saying how most of the big banks didn't get it regarding the risk. You know, it was just one big accident 'cause nobody knew! What a load of crap. I honestly do not believe that.
Nor should you or anyone. It becomes very understandable about the news blackout on the movements against greed and corruption when you are shown the whole picture - where it started, how it started, the players involved. Truly sick stuff.
And, these folks still garner a lot of money and power. And, nothing has been done to prosecute any of them. WTF?
That is why I was happy to see the announcement of the protest at the Justice Department. I also sent off some advice to the president last night after watching Frontline. I suggested that he and all of those currently in government should sit down and watch two documentaries. 1) Inside Job. 2) The Frontline documentary ( gave details about current showing ). I then said that they really need to consider the fact that the public is a lot more aware than they might think and that the public is not happy with the denial by government.
Very good.
Thank you. I fired off another letter to the President just a moment ago. It's on my post - If you were to talk to the president.........
Have a look if I disappear someday I want to be remembered for speaking-out. ( just kidding - I hope ) {:-])
In the Zimmerman case, the arrest and the incarceration was extremely important. He was the son of a judge. Many people were willing to let it work through the system but the reality is that if it had been anyone else then they would have been immediately arrested. At this point in time, I cannot believe that the guy is allowed to leave the state.
People have to decide if they want rehabilitation to be the goal or not. I do not like this half assed game that is played. By the same token, it is not ok to have someone repeatedly break into houses and steal items that don't belong to them or to have their cars stolen. I mention this because there are those states that do not want to put those convicted of property crimes in prison.
If you don't believe that jail-time deters crime try this test:
Make grand theft legal, but only on Saturday an Sunday, and then measure the increase in in stock loss on weekends at the auto dealers.
What does that have to do with violent crime?
OK, try the same test but swap grand-theft with murder 1.
The result will be the same.
Well, if a person molests a child and is sent to prison for it then he isn't molesting other children while locked up. Same for murderers etc... And please don't start all this utopian bullshit about if we al just get along crime would disappear blah blah barf.
I am generally not concerned in the act of molestation but in the reason why it happened.
And that has to do with.....what?
Yeah. The media does this several times every year. They blow an emotionally stimulating story out of proportion and roll with it for a few weeks. Usually to detract from more important issues that are simultaneously occurring which actually have an impact on the American people.
Hell yeah. Free Zimmerman!