Forum Post: What is the actual goal?
Posted 13 years ago on Oct. 18, 2011, 1:06 p.m. EST by missgray71
(2)
from Las Vegas, NV
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
I am in full support of the movement's message. My only confusion is that I don't understand what the goal is. Can someone please explain to me what the group wants to happen? For instance, what has to happen to make Occupy Wall Street stop demonstrating? I have searched this site high and low and there seems to be no real explanation. Just trying to learn. Thank you everybody!
I think the first and most important demand they can make is to remove the corporate and elite control of the elected members of government. If you can focus everyone's attention on the corruption that prevents the government from representing the best interests of the country and the people, you will be shedding light on the one problem which has spawned all the rest. The government that was set up by the founding fathers was designed to address the peoples needs. If you can change the system back to one that is controlled by the people and not the banks and corporations, all other problems can be addressed effectively. Second, end the fed, and return the gold standard. Thirdly, bring the troops home, get out of the middle east and overt world war three.
YEAH! :D
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Simply put its to get the money out of politics. Sever the chords that binds Capitol hill to Wall Street. Return the voice of America to the People.
This can be done by: -Eliminating corporate campaign contributions. -Restructuring the lobbying process
-And on a separate note Reinstating Glass Steagall
Protests throughout history have included specific demands. Those who are slaves to their own preconceptions automatically dismiss this one outright merely because it doesn't follow suit
This protest doesn't have a specific demand, but lack of a specific demand doesn't logically demerit the tool of protest. Instead of demanding a particular change, we demand they start changing until we're satisfied that things are getting better.
YES!! More truly unrivaled thinking! We don't know WHAT we want but if somebody, somewhere, changes something, we will let you know if maybe that is what we want. If not, we will DEMAND more change (even though we don't know what we want) and see if it's what we want then.... and on and on and on. God.... this is the youth of the world thinking....
//i.imgur.com/wDOu1.png
I thought I knew for a long time, but I think I may have been wrong. I thought we were advocating to get money out of politics to return power to the people within our present (super cool, constitutional republic) so that we could resume functioning again as a people. But, I've detected an elitism that has abandoned our system as value-less, and is going to let the suffering continue while they found a new form of government from scratch.
There's a nice post by dmjordan that is addressing this issue:
http://occupywallst.org/forum/our-1st-demand-needs-to-be/
Yes! This is great. Thank you!
I would think their goal is to stop the fraud, the bailouts and the losses involved with serious financial mismanagement within the financial sector, to bring in proper fiscal controls which could and should prevent this from ever happening again.
It is bad lending, bad investments and huge losses made by really bad investment strategies which has brought this all down on everyone's head.
Worse than that public money used to bail out the failure of the banking system, yet not one thing put in place to prevent this from happening again.
I am from the UK, but that in this sense, doesn't matter, because this is a global catastrophe and the worst banking crisis since the 1930's, however it should not be public money which bails out the worst of the banking practices of the last 10 years, public money should be invested in jobs, health and communities.
It is this which I believe this movement objects to. As I have said before, the people have been hit on two sides, in the first instance the people have lost significant sums of public money to these bailouts. (Remember the Government has NO money of its own)
and in the second instant it is the people who have been subjected to loss of jobs, livelihoods and homes because of the fallout from this.
Yet there has no containment on the banking system and no steps have been taken to protect the public from this happening again. Worse still these debts may only be paid back by your great grandmother, or even plausibly your great great grandmother. 50 years is not long enough believe me to put all this right.
The banks need regulation, the people need their democracy returned to them, for at the moment democracy only serves the elite.
At least this is to my understanding, the people are speaking up against what is in fact a wicked imbalance of justice! The banks, big business and conglomerates against ordinary people, small businesses and public sector workers, who ALL have helped bail out the banks. But who are in fact suffering the most from doing so!
I hear what you guys are saying. But I have to say, without any leadership or organization, I am really scared this movement will fizzle out and end up achieving nothing. Occupy, please PLEASE, while you have this momentum, get a clear concise plan! It would be such a shame to see this amazing group laughed off into non-existence. I never thought in my lifetime I would see the world band together in such a huge way. What you are doing is brave and appreciated by all of us that feel the same. You have brought the world together for a common goal, in 30 days no less. That blows my mind and restores my faith in humanity. Please, someone, organize this thing, or I fear this will be all for nothing.
This is a rough list of what I think would cause the demonstrations to wind down:
-The reversing of the citizen's united decision or some other serious attempt at campaign finance reform.
-The media actually engaging in journalism rather than just being an opinion machine.
-The left and right can actually start talking instead of engaging in ideology wars in the media and power grabs in politics.
-The economy improves.
I don't think any one of these things alone would end the demonstrations, but if several of these things happen it will probably deflate the demonstrations.
Also, I'm not sure if this is what everyone or even what the majority of the movement wants, but it's my prediction as to what changes would result in the movement losing its relevance/impact/attractiveness, not sure what the best word is.
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It may miss the message, but it would take some wind out of the sails. Public mood has a strong correlation with employment and economic prosperity. If obtaining gainful employment became easier a lot of the less devoted demonstrators would probably bail. Heck, if I didn't have a great job, I might be right there in the thick of it right now instead of sitting here commentating like a total hypocrite ;)
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Mcc:
It is obvious that your response was canned and just paste to push a political view. Utopia can not exist we are only equal at birth what we do with our lives makes us different. For 90% to hold 50% of the wealth that 90% will have to step up and assume responsibility for the 50% of the cost of the new government you are pushing. Will they? Will you?
We want your opinion too...this is the beginning of Opensource Democracy...I'm glad you are learning with the rest of us...weigh in please...
I won't stop until the lower 90 percent own 1/2 of United States wealth. They don't. Not even close. The lower 90 percent are left to share less than 10 percent of United States wealth. The rest is at the top. Most of that is held by the richest one percent. Greedy bastards.
We have been mislead by Reagan, Bush Sr, Clinton, Bush Jr, Obama, and nearly every other public figure. Economic growth, job creation, and actual prosperity are not necessarily a package deal. In fact, the first two are horribly misunderstood. Economic growth/loss (GDP) is little more than a measure of wealth changing hands. A transfer of currency from one party to another. The rate at which it is traded. This was up until mid ’07′ however, has never been a measure of actual prosperity. Neither has job creation. The phrase itself has been thrown around so often, and in such a generic political manner, that it has come to mean nothing. Of course, we need to have certain things done for the benefit of society as a whole. We need farmers, builders, manufacturers, transporters, teachers, cops, firefighters, soldiers, mechanics, sanitation workers, doctors, managers, and visionaries. Their work is vital. I’ll even go out on a limb and say that we need politicians, attorneys, bankers, investors, and entertainers. In order to keep them productive, we must provide reasonable incentives. We need to compensate each by a fair measure for their actual contributions to society. We need to provide a reasonable scale of income opportunity for every independent adult, every provider, and share responsibility for those who have a legitimate need for aid. In order to achieve and sustain this, we must also address the cost of living and the distribution of wealth. Here, we have failed miserably. The majority have already lost their home equity, their financial security, and their relative buying power. The middle class have actually lost much of their ability to make ends meet, re-pay loans, pay taxes, and support their own economy. The lower class have gone nearly bankrupt. In all, its a multi-trillion dollar loss taken over about 30 years. Millions are under the impression that we need to create more jobs simply to provide more opportunity. as if that would solve the problem. It won’t. Not by a longshot. Jobs don’t necessarily create wealth. In fact, they almost never do. For the mostpart, they only transfer wealth from one party to another. A gain here. A loss there. Appreciation in one community. Depreciation in another. In order to create net wealth, you must harvest a new resource or make more efficient use of one. Either way you must have a reliable and ethical system in place to distribute that newly created wealth in order to benefit society as a whole and prevent a lagging downside. The ‘free market’ just doesn’t cut it. Its a farce. Many of the jobs created are nothing but filler. The promises empty. Sure, unemployment reached an all-time low under Bush. GDP reached an all-time high. But those are both shallow and misleading indicators. In order to gauge actual prosperity, you must consider the economy in human terms. As of ’08′ the average American was working more hours than the previous generation with far less equity to show for it. Consumer debt, forclosure, and bankruptcy were also at all-time highs. As of ’08′, every major American city was riddled with depressed communities, neglected neighborhoods, failing infrastructures, lost revenue, and gang activity. All of this has coincided with massive economic growth and job creation. Meanwhile, the rich have been getting richer and richer and richer even after taxes. Our nation’s wealth has been concentrated. Again, this represents a multi-trillion dollar loss taken by the majority. Its an absolute deal breaker. Bottom line: With or without economic growth or job creation, you must have a system in place to prevent too much wealth from being concentrated at the top. Unfortunately, we don’t. Our economy has become nothing but a giant game of Monopoly. The richest one percent already own nearly 1/2 of all United States wealth. More than double their share before Reagan took office. Still, they want more. They absolutely will not stop. Now, our society as a whole is in serious jeapordy. Greed kills.
We have been noticed … and while we have the world’s attention let’s not squander the opportunity.
We now need to focus … focus on how government and fairness in this country can be returned and belong to everyone not just an elite governing few.
We need a position – a unifying theme – something that everyone will get behind … something that people can grasp and something that the 1% will understand.
If we wish to win.. and to win long term, we must settle on the most important change we wish to achieve. Preferably it is one that everyone who is not one of the 1% agrees with.
Very seldom are there situations where virtually everyone agrees the same change needs to happen. If we press a platform that is diverse then we will be opening ourselves to division within ourselves, and as result providing those who have every incentive for the current rules to stay unchanged - weak points for them to exploit.
Remember united we stand and divided we fall.
Does everyone believe Student Loans should be forgiven? No! Does everyone believe we should simply withdraw from Iraq and Afghanistan? No! Does everyone oppose the NRA? No! Does everyone believe in a women’s right to choose? No! Should they? That is a different question. To have such debates and to be part of the debate we need first to get back the government of our country! We will not do this if we list many many demands. We will not move forward because we will be endlessly debating amongst ourselves. Save those debates for later – later until there can be a real debate - rather than simply rules and stances decreed by those who weigh everything with a single criterion – namely “what’s in it for me!”
Currently the 1% does not take us seriously – they have hunkered down and are waiting for this surge to fizzle and burn out. We too will likely tire if we do not have a understandable major goal - a shining beacon to carry forward.
Beware of those who were initially critical and deriding of us – and yet are now those who position themselves as our champions. I do not want to be lectured to as to how we need to act because we don’t understand the political process – especially by those who for years have been at the beck and call of the 1%. I don’t want headlines blaring forth our victory only to find whatever we thought we had achieved is whittled away in a legislative process.
The legislation that becomes law should be a law for the 100%.
I plead with everyone who is part of or considering to be part of this movement – put aside issues that divide us – adopt the incontrovertible single point and aim of what I believe we all demand. Let’s get our government back!
To start, let’s not wait until next year to hold a National Meeting, let’s challenge our elected representatives NOW! If Grover Norquist can require all Republicans to sign a pledge to never raise taxes – then we can ask and expect that every representative, every senator, every governor, every mayor, and in fact every elected official sign a pledge that they will not take money from any corporation, PAC, organization, and that they will only accept a maximum of $500.00 (the amount is not significant it could be $100 or $1,000) per individual. Let’s make sure that those who do not sign on to the pledge will not receive one vote the next time they run for office, and anyone who is elected and who has accepted monies from other than individuals will face a recall.
This will be the start – let’s have our elected officials declare – go on record – as to where they stand – let’s make them go public so we can create a bulletin of shame . Let’s also make it clear that any company, PAC, Union, organization and/or individual who in the past has donated (either transparently or otherwise) more than the threshold we agree on, that will now not sign our pledge to limit what they provide and to cease and desist lobbying – they too will be put onto the Wall of Shame and will suffer the isolation and of boycotts until they do sign on.
While we do all this we need to keep in mind that we live in a democracy – or at least wish to. In the society we live in we need to respect that we will have differences of opinion. We must make it clear that the expression of one’s views is still everyone’s right.
I will be the first to sign the pledge …. Will you join me .. and demand that every elected official declare themselves to be with us … or not .. and that they doo so publicly.
Yours truly,
Alex P
No they do not want to let anyone know what the end game is. If they did the American public would turn on them at once. Even the small savings account as well as the retired persons pension is at risk with this group. They only think of themselves not the average American. I have been laid off now for sometime can someone tell me where I can sign up to be a professional protester like most of this group? Looks like a easy job to me. You have nothing so you risk nothing.